The Side Quest Book Club Podcast

Hey Adventurers! In this episode of the SideQuest Podcast, Slava and Jonathan continue their discussion of Uncrowned, unraveling the tournament battles, character growth, and world-shaking power struggles of the Cradle series. Whether you're a longtime Cradle fan or new to the series, this episode is packed with insights, analysis, and discussions on Will Wight’s storytelling mastery. 

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Chapters
(00:00) Intro
(02:40) Engagement with Will White
(03:44) Exploring Uncrowned's Plot
(07:49) The Uncrowned King Tournament
(10:25) Character Dynamics and Monarchs
(15:09) Linden's Growth and Challenges
(22:11) Tournament Trials and Team Dynamics
(25:11) Designing New Tournament Challenges
(33:14) Consequences of Decisions in the Labyrinth
(34:42) The Uncrowned King Tournament Begins
(37:43) Lyndon's Growth and Resourcefulness
(40:11) Identifying the Big Bad: The Mad King and Dread Gods
(43:41) Character Dynamics: Allies and Antagonists
(47:14) Romantic Tensions and Character Relationships
(54:11) Political Power Shifts and Future Conflicts

Creators and Guests

Host
Jonathan
Host
Slava

What is The Side Quest Book Club Podcast?

Join Slava and Jonathan as they discuss the books they are reading. Explore world-building, characters, and story development—and share some laughs along the way. Side Quest Book Club — a literary adventure podcast.

Jonathan (00:10.894)
Good morning, good afternoon, and good night, wherever you're tuning in. We are Slava and Jonathan bringing you the SideQuest podcast, where we talk about character development, stories, and all things that are world building. And we occasionally take the SideQuest because, frankly, that's how conversations work. Just as a reminder, this whole show is spoiler heavy. So sit back, tune in, and join us on this episode of SideQuest.

Welcome back unsold salutation super dig dip dip dip dip dip dip it salutations I Love the errands one-liners not everyone does but I think that they're pretty fantastic bleed and bury me

Bleed and bury me.

Slava (01:01.902)
That should be the name of our next podcast. It could be.

Is that a crime podcast? It's a work in public podcast. It's like Dexter where we're the ones committing the crimes, but we're investigating them on our podcast. Honestly, if you did that as like a war of the worlds type podcast where it's not real, it's, it's a story, but it sounds real. And you did work with a bunch of SEO and like news, like random news, you know, W ZLB Gary, Indiana.

You know, just random websites you spun up and then people can go look at them. my God, they're killing people.

So it's Dexter, the marketing campaign for Blair Witch Project and True Crime Podcast all milled into one. We're not going to kill anybody for real though, right?

Anyway, on today's podcast, we've got Uncrowned by Will White. Episode two in our three episode series on Uncrowned. Next episode, we'll be back with our favorite guests, our favorite scholars from Cradle, iteration 110. And Slava, something fun and exciting happened this week related to this, didn't it?

Slava (02:13.47)
It did. So last episode you reached out to Will, slipped right into those DMs and asked him if he wants to join us for a short segment. Unfortunately for us and to quote Will, podcasts are not his thing. So he didn't want to be interviewed, which is fine. But he did share one of our episodes of the Ghostwater episodes to his Instagram stories, which gave us such a great boost.

in downloads and engagement, got us some followers. So thank you for all who followed. Thank you Will for sharing our podcast. It was such a boost, not only for the podcast, but for us, I thought that was pretty cool. Will's a standup guy. Not only is he a good writer, he's a scholar and a gentleman.

There it is. There it is. Yeah, it was pretty cool. Like honestly, I'm not sure if he runs his own Insta, but like even if he doesn't and someone responded, that's still cool. I'm sure he gets a lot of pings every day about different stuff that he's written in different books. So.

Well, as somebody who's ran other people's social media accounts, organizational and otherwise, if you're doing it right, you should know what your boss wants and you can speak on his behalf. Even if the guy or girl running his accounts said, Hey, these guys reached out to you. Mind if I share their stuff? They seem okay. And he said, all right, and there we are. Still a win. But we're not here to fanboy about Will. We're here to discuss the-

Still a win. Yeah, so that was fun.

Slava (03:44.182)
Uncrowned King Tournament.

That's right. So welcome back, fellow book lovers. Hit that subscribe button so that you never miss a side quest.

So this week we are going to dive into the plot. We gave the audience, I think a pretty decent setup of the book last time. Let's unpack all the tournaments, the acts of this battle, plural battles that Yaron and Linden and somewhat Aethon, he's kind of here for a little bit, but mostly Linden and Yaron are going through, well those are going through a lot. There's them.

You know, trying to get to the tournament. Yeren has some troubles. Then as we left off last week, there's this conflict that they both have of fighting each other. We are now diving into the meat of it. Let's just dive into the prologue really quickly because there's two things that are interesting for me takeaways. Orthos and Kelso are still together in Sacred Valley. Orthos discovers that something is going on with Sacred Valley.

that pulls power away from the sacred artists. So the fact that they can only be Jade or only achieve Jade is not because they don't know about gold and true gold and monarchs. They don't know and they can't achieve that because the valley itself is somehow under a dome of oppression, if you will. So Orthos finds out that Linden's mom

Slava (05:21.728)
is kidnapped, she's pretty much a slave, and Ortho's dad has been blinded because of their help to that stupid school. Glory school? Heaven's Glory school. They were sold out because the Heaven's Glory came to the tribe, the clan, and said, hey, where's this douchebag Linden? We need to talk with him. And the clan was like, well, we don't know where he is. He's probably dead, but he can take his family and do whatever you want with them. They're pieces of shit.

heaven's door

Jonathan (05:50.104)
Yeah, the path of the white fox.

And then another thing that is very interesting to me, I think was a surprise because either I missed this or it was a new reveal. You tell me. The Mad King destroys four worlds and he's trying to test the Abaddon's response times and his full strike will happen soon. He is targeting the asylum or he may target the asylum and he's trying to plan a big grand old

Nagasaki Hiroshima type of attack on some worlds. Makhiel's foresight tells him that the Abaddon might survive, but they will lose a lot. And the Mad King will gain rulership over many. And this was what forces him to make a decision. He determines that it is time to recruit. Normally people must ascend on their own to join the Abaddon. Now risking the existential

Yeah, in the cradle universe.

Slava (06:50.99)
crises, the instability is worth starting the recruitment process on its own. So instead of people ascending to the Abaddon, Abaddon will now recruit and they will lose some worlds to chaos with this choice. But this choice is necessary to give them a chance to survive as a whole. So all the monarchs on Cradle have already refused Machiel things that perhaps the upcoming generation.

will be swayed. So those two things that are the setup for this book and subsequent books will get into orthos and what he's doing with the, yeah, with the she family. But this thing with the mad King, this is kind like the catalyst for what's going to happen. That was a great setup. thought it was good to get us thinking about how important this tournament is. And then we get right into it. always.

will sets it up, gives us the nitty gritty, gives us the important details and boom we're right into the action.

Do you like when authors end up basically giving you snippets of a different storyline that seem unrelated?

Yes. If it's build upon as it is here, or if it, it meaning this little reveal or this little snippet of a separate story gives you insight into what's going on, then it's great. I love it because it gives you more information about the story you're in. gives you greater insight into the world that you are pulled into by the author. So I love it. What about you? Do you like it or? yeah.

Slava (08:34.722)
Yeah, I figured.

First time that it really hit home was reading Way of Kings. And you're like, what are these epigraphs? And for those who are unfamiliar, epigraphs are the little quips that Sanderson put at the top of his chapters that seem unrelated, nonsensical. Most of them were death rattles. Some of them were pieces of letters that were written between character one and character two that you don't even meet in the book, but they all lead up to a more fulfilling story.

Figured I'd ask you because we'll something similar.

And Stephen King does it in It, where you have Mike Hanlon's journals, you have new snippets, you have court procedures. It's great. It's fun to read that way. A linear story is also nice, but I think if you can read a book, and I think you mentioned this about Will White's Cradle series and specifically, if you can read a book that reads like a movie, it makes for such a fun read. I think it's more enjoyable.

It is. Well, let's carry on here. So Uncrowned, if you haven't read it yet, is structured around a classic tournament arc beloved by anime fans around the world and fantasy fans. The Uncrowned King Tournament serves as a crucible for growth and transformation with battles and team events and strategy and plot twists that keep the readers on edge throughout the whole story. With the subtle undercurrent of

Jonathan (10:05.89)
political intrigue, world shifting events, and as Slava just laid out, universe level consequences. So let's move into a little bit of world talk and then we'll talk about the characters that we get to follow around this book.

Yeah, let's do it. So the Uncrowned King Tournament is this grand stage for sacred artists across the world for reasons already mentioned from the prologue. The political landscape of Cradle is on full display with factions like a Korra clan playing a pivotal role. So the rules here are simple. You win to advance, you lose and you're out. But the battles have greater implications than just rankings, right? The environment also is designed to challenge the participants.

with shifting combat arenas and magical, quote unquote, restrictions. So there's a lot of play here. It's universe significant, it's person significant for the people, for the clan that the people are representing. There's this grand scale to it all.

want to shift real quick before we get into specific characters. The Monarchs. Give me some like quick feedback. What are your thoughts on the Monarchs at this point Slava? Do you like them? Do you not like them? Is there one that you like you don't like the other ones? Do you feel like they are trustworthy? How do you feel about a Coramallus in particular? Norstrider.

The best way to answer that from my perspective is not whether or not I have any specific thoughts of the monarchs in general, but you do get more insight into their personalities. So Nordstrider, you walked away with him at Ghostwater thinking he's kind of a jerk maybe. And here you have him as an ally. If not an ally, somebody who's...

Slava (12:03.882)
invested in making sure the tournament goes well and that the right people ascend. Now that he's playing favorites, now that he's alternating results, but he wants to make sure that the best win and you get a little bit more of Akura's internal thoughts and her ambition. And they're almost humanized because from previous books, you view them through

other people's point of views and they don't seem as friendly or as quote unquote good. But here you get a different side of them. Overall, undecided in the monarchs, but at least the two that we get a glimpse of, a closer glimpse of here, they seem to be different than what we thought. And I think that is fascinating. That piques my curiosity.

Right, fair enough. We'll see how that progresses as time goes on. And we'll see which monarchs can be trusted and which ones can't.

Right. Cause you still don't know. You might trust North Strider a little bit more now after reading this book, you might have a different perspective of a Akura, but you still can trust Akura fully. At least the way I read this book and where it left off, despite what I just said. So more to see more to follow.

Yeah, Akura Malice is... Some people love her, some people don't. We'll just... I'll say that. That's what I'll say right now. But I don't know a lot of people who love her. Maybe that gives it away too.

Slava (13:46.616)
Do you think I'll like her at least? Okay.

No, no, think there will be a couple of times where you're like, yeah, that makes sense. And then as it develops, you're going to go, well, so much for that. That's, that's my Slava estimate.

Fair enough.

Slava (14:04.214)
And you know it pretty well. I think that's fair. Because I still don't trust her, even though I have this insight, greater insight into her character, I'm still not sold as her being a friendly. Or somebody that I would be like, okay, I kind of understand why she did what she did because of X, Y, and Z. And now you get a fuller perspective of her, which is inevitable. But I think the more we get of her, is my perspective of her.

fills up, I might not like her, still might not like her or I would hate her more. That's fair.

Yeah. Look, I'll tell you this. There's a reason that the Dread Gods are still around because the Monarchs can't defeat them. I I might have mentioned that last episode.

And that's clear from this book too.

actually are scared of them and basically just have to tolerate them being around. But let's keep moving on here. Let's go character by character and discuss some of the nuances, details, character growth, things that take place in this book. You want to look at Lyndon first because he's our main character.

Slava (15:09.826)
Yeah, let's do it. Linden's first match, and this is covered in chapters five through eight, he faces an opponent from a high profile faction. And this battle, remind me who that is?

As the Nine Cloud Court begins announcing information for the first round, a voice echoes through the arena, hold a blue rift appears, Northstrider steps forth. He proclaims himself the new judge of the contest, which maybe you actually want to start talking about how Northstrider literally just comes and takes over. All may fight fully and freely. He will prevent their deaths. The first trial of the first round begins. construct armies fight. The combatant must lead one to victory.

Linden holds back on using his techniques and ekes out a victory. He's ranked 66 for a slower, messier victory compared to the others. He'll need to catch up. Only the top 64 move forward. Yaron blasts through her way. the first trial.

I think him coming in and going, Hey guys, we are doing things my way. I'm in charge and here's how we're going to go. What's really interesting is him saying, I won't allow anybody to die. And so he brings back people from the dead for like a better term, including Lyndon. But if we're talking about Lyndon specifically, if we take the grand arc of all his fights and his training leading up to the tournament, I love the way he uses dross.

to get a advantage against the opponent where Dras analyzes his opponent and then tells Lyndon what to do, when to do it, how to do it without giving away too much of his fighting techniques, but giving him a slight advantage over his opponents. And Lyndon...

Jonathan (16:58.126)
It's not that slight.

Okay. But Lyndon, but Lyndon grows in this process. He understands, if I apply myself and let Dross help me, I am able to achieve greater and bigger things. And he's less speculative. Maybe I get it. Now I can go forward and execute this tactic or execute this technique and I can beat my opponent.

heavy.

Slava (17:29.794)
So that gives Linden an internal arc and obviously in world, he's able to defeat his opponents.

Mm-hmm. It's only going to continue to grow as well.

And I think that sets him up for his fight with Yeren. And we mentioned this last episode where he's not sure he wants to do it. He is processing what this might happen. He doesn't want to hurt Aaron. He doesn't want to destroy their friendship, but he also doesn't want to hold back because he feels that would be looked down upon by Yeren and he will disappoint Yeren. So what he learned with Dros by participating in this.

analysis of other people's techniques also sets them up for making the right decision with Yaron, in my opinion.

for the battle or for other things.

Slava (18:18.744)
for the battle specifically.

Yeah, this book unfolds a little more where Lyndon and Yeren's relationship and friendship, and I guess I'd call them family, up kind of like, because they've become family to each other since Lyndon had to abandon his family. Yeren didn't have any, hers all died from the blood shadows. So his, Lyndon's admiration and respect for Yeren comes to the forefront and he kind of has to confront it when, to your point, that battle.

later on in the book where they get the, the old bait and switch from North Strider. Who's like, Yaron's going to fight mercy and Linda is going to fight Sepharin and blah, blah, blah. And they're like, great. I'm going to go study. then it's just boom. Actually it's Yaron across the field. What? So, and he has to wrestle with that throughout that whole fight, but I think it actually helps him understand Yaron on a different level because what's this book seven.

They've never fought each other. The closest thing they got was book three when they were both fighting in the black flame thing. didn't get into a tussle, but they were close, I feel like. But otherwise like book four, didn't. Book five, they were separated. Book six, they were both training in different ways. And so this is like the first time that they've ever really fought because previously Linden just wasn't strong enough and it wasn't even a contest.

And although a bit slowly maybe, according to some, he moves up the leaderboard with each trial. And quickly from 64th or whatever, he comes in 10th, moments before Yaron. Mercy is eighth. They're now in the top rankings as the tournament unfolds. Maybe you can help me understand this. They study the dream tablets of other competitors.

Jonathan (20:05.492)
Yes. So we've seen dream tablets a little bit here and there. They become more of a prominent tool as the books continue forward. You can actually view a previous master or previous somebody who basically recorded it. It's their equivalent of a VHS tape, right? Like I'm going to go and rewatch somebody doing a thing that I want to learn. It's like a VHS tape meets.

the matrix when you can download a skill, you're in the body of the person that recorded the dream tablet. And then you view the exact technique or whatever that they're doing. But if they're too high level, and this is like a nice boundary that Will puts in here, you try to view it and then it blanks you out and you don't actually learn anything. And you wake up as if you just got hit with a flashbang. You're not powerful enough to understand. And so it just kicks you out basically.

And then we're pretty quickly thrown into round two and teams have to capture 32 crowns across this island and they could keep it on their head for one full minute. They get to return to the main arena in the real world, quote unquote. And then they pass on to round three. That was fascinating. Just like the training arena in Lyndon's mansion, there are worlds within worlds that are set up for them to fight.

And this arena within an arena world within a world, it's a great plot device. It sets up the world as more complex and intricate than we originally thought. At least for me, I'm like, wow. Not only are there pocket worlds like Ghostwater, but there are worlds within worlds in the so-called real world that people can access or ascend to or enter into.

and do whatever they're doing. In this case, they're fighting and then they're brought back to the real world. A lot more intricate than I originally thought the whole, cradle world that is.

Jonathan (22:11.798)
Yeah, let's talk about this second trial. First off, very creative, like that there's a team aspect, but it's like team plus individual, right? Because your team needs to work together. But then at the end of it, there's one person who needs to like still get a crown by themselves. However, our two teams that we're following work together. Right. And that was a fun little nuance. I feel like it felt very Hunger Games-y.

Right? Where you have to stick together with another group to start because the other people have done the same thing. And so the only way to battle a larger force is to create your own force. So, Aethyn does what Aethyn does. He helps his friends out. Zeal shows up and is a friendly as well. But then you have Pride who's like, I'm going to do it my way. Super obnoxious. You're like, cool. And then Linden basically has to save him.

and put a crown on his head, if I remember correctly. And it's just like, okay, you're done. You sit down little buddy. You've done a good job. Just like, here's the crown.

And Pride actually decides that Lyndon should get the crown. He just like gives him the crown and goes, yeah, whatever. You can get the crown. Don't think we're friends. I'm leaving now. Yeah. Okay. For Pride, he hates Lyndon, whether he internally is justified or not is irrelevant. He hates Lyndon, but now he realizes, without Lyndon, I would lose. Yup. And it's easier for Lyndon to wear the crown.

But F the guy anyway. Come on, dude. Are you in high school?

Jonathan (23:55.242)
I mean, pretty much of this challenge though. really, I really, really enjoyed seeing another black flame path member who is truly just mad, not in control of himself. Nyan, I think is how his name is said, going around destroying stuff from his own madness, right? Like that's a fun battle and enemy that we get to follow as a subplot through this where it's like, okay, there's another

Black Flame path being who has also gone mad like Orthos was for a bit. Linden eventually fights him and gets to bring him to a little clarity of mind through his pure Madra path. Watching two Black Flames fight is a good time. They didn't really do it in this second round, so I'm kind of jumping ahead, but I liked that a lot. I, that was fun for me.

Yeah, I think seeing Black Flame in this book was fun, but I want to go into a little side quest. If you could design a brand new tournament challenge for the Uncrowned King Tournament, what would you make it? What would it be, Like a Battle Royale, another puzzle challenge, or something completely out of left field to screw the competitors heads?

was a good question. It's a difficult question for anyone who's played Dungeons and Dragons. Puzzle challenges are a lot of fun. They're just super hard to craft because it's very easy to over complicate your challenge. Battle Royale, we know we're going to get more fights, so it would not be that. There's another book series that we probably will never go through because it's just a little bit lengthy. Maybe not never go through, but like it's pretty lengthy. So until we finish a bunch of series up, won't touch it.

Andrew Rose series, which are Arcane Ascension and The War of Broken Mirrors and Weapons and Wielders. This whole series that he's written is pretty much based off of a long-standing D &D campaign that he ran. That's the precursor for anyone who hasn't heard of Andrew Roe or this series. But anyway, in Arcane Ascension, we follow a Dweebish, Lindony character named Corrin and

Jonathan (26:09.474)
There's a coming of age time for these characters called a judgment. And they go through these spires where they enter and when they leave their memories are wiped. But while they're inside, every room is a different challenge. It could be a battle. It could be a puzzle. It could be a something else, but every room that they enter is a rotating labyrinth. Rotating is not a good word, but it's like every room.

No, no two path entrance appear in the same starting spot or enter the same room as each other. And every room that they enter subsequently is always theoretically at random. So I think a lot about how all of that long answer to say for this side quest. I think a lot about ways to make things more challenging, but fun and interesting. So what would I pick to make the tournament a fuller, a brand new tournament challenge? Well, I'd probably.

make entrance do something that mixes emotional turmoil on their part with some sort of like showing off of feats for people who've read Harry Potter. Think about when like Harry had to rescue Ron underwater, something like that. Except what I would do is I would make people that we've visibly seen hate each other have to go try and rescue people that they don't like. And that's like their goal, their required thing that they won't pass if they don't do it. So that would be part of it.

And then I would also make them do something that does require a little bit of puzzle solving through their entrance. Kind of like in part one of the tournament where they're on trials and like, Hey, you have to help this army defeat whatever. Where it'd be like a multi-tiered challenge itself. That's not a very clear answer, but that's, that's what I would do.

What I find fun about the puzzle that Lyndon had to solve, right? He had to use draws. He had to leverage draws, his little mental companion to analyze the situation, calculate the best course of action, the modular manipulation. It kind of tested Lyndon's mastery of his path. You have to focus and strategy over strength. So what I would do is similar to what you mentioned about the other books.

Slava (28:26.656)
that you alluded to create a labyrinth that constantly shifts and introduces new environmental hazards, maybe collapsing floors, walls made of razor thin aura, rooms filled with illusionary dangers and Linde and Yair and whoever's participating here need to navigate it, not just using memory, but intuition and quick thinking more than they are already. So take Drossoe.

And have Lyndon use what he's learned from Dros and has learned so far, make him do it on his own.

How would you take us away? Nobody knows that he's there at the end of the book. Nor striders like who's dropped, right? So people don't know. I think that this is a good idea. I like it. I'm just like poking a hole in it.

If we're making up a labyrinth or a new test for these guys, let's say whether unbeknownst to Nordstrider who's going to set this up or now that he's found out that Dross exists, he's like, okay. You use Dross, we'll have one more test for you, Mr. Linden. And you can't use Dross and into the labyrinth you go.

Okay. Nice. This, just a quick pause. The fact that you brought up a labyrinth, I know it was kind of lightly leading the witness with my mentions, but this is partly what I was trying to get at last episode when I was talking about Greek mythology, mixing with modern stories is like we constantly go anchor ourselves into things that the Greek mythos and Roman mythos wrote about. Labyrinth is one of them. The labyrinth in the Minotaur, you've got Icarus and his father trapped in there.

Jonathan (30:08.93)
Like these are things that we go back to because they are, I mean, dare I say relatable, right? Like sometimes the world that we live in feels like a labyrinth, not sure where to go. Sometimes the world that we live in we're Icarus and we're like, I'm going to fly too close to the sun and then end up drowning. I'm glad that you, you, you chose something like a labyrinth, but that's kind of in a roundabout, not specific way. Cause words are hard this morning, apparently. What I was trying to get at is like, we constantly tap into the mythos.

I think my point last episode, and this is a week ago, so it's hard to fully wrap my mind around it, but was a little different. But this is part of it where you're tapping into old ancient mythology to bring it forth into the present to use as examples or situations, et cetera, et cetera.

As you were talking, I added more complexity to the labyrinth. What if this labyrinth also had a countdown timer? So participants must solve puzzles and navigate the labyrinth quickly. If they don't...

You'll kill their parents.

Almost. the timer runs out and triggers a purge. Now that purge might be simply expelling the participants or incapacitating them. The labyrinth also includes crossroads. At the point in the labyrinth where you win, there's will be a crossroads where the competitors get to choose almost like a choose your own adventure. There's like two or three things in front of them. Okay. So you win this, but now here's a road that's diverged in the labyrinth wood.

Slava (31:39.714)
and you must choose one. Okay. And what I think would be interesting for Linden is he has to face a phantom of himself from Sacred Valley. So he gets to see himself as he was before and there's almost like a mental attack on him. And for Yeren, she has a phantom vision of her blood shadow and attempts her with power and chaos. they get to what their internal struggles are.

Robert Frost.

Slava (32:07.758)
Yeah. For Linden, it's his old self and him needing to advance and save his sacred valley. And for Yeren, it's her blood shadow. All the stuff we mentioned in the previous episode. Now they have phantom visions of these things where they have to make a decision. Maybe they don't understand that this is part of the labyrinth. Maybe they don't know that this is just an illusion or a phantom of what they're struggling with, but their internal struggles are manifest in reality, quote unquote.

A recorded echo of the past, if you Little foreshadowing there. So what would, what would Zeals be or a Athens or mercies like keep, keep riffing on this. I'm curious on how you would,

if you will.

Slava (32:47.776)
Okay. Well, I didn't write anything for Mercy, but I have one ready for you. Mercy would have to struggle with, you know, saving her friends or sacrificing her friends in order to advance her now. Because that's something that she struggles with. Yeah. Again, yeah. Ethan, maybe he has to see the consequences of all his insanity and all his machinations.

book the end of book six

Jonathan (33:14.317)
gets ripped off.

Yeah. So Linda, instead of getting his arm ripped off, is like torn apart by wild beasts. And it's because of the decisions, Ethan made in the labyrinth. so just a saw version of.

That's what it sounds like.

a soft version of their internal struggles. Zeal is pressured to make a decision. He can't just be like, well, I guess they'll just die. He has to make honest to goodness decisions and they all have very horrible consequences. the idea is not just to torture them, although it sounds like it.

And zeal.

Jonathan (33:43.918)
Right, right.

Jonathan (33:48.206)
It sounds like it is though.

The idea is as they fight with this illusion, fight with this phantom, they slowly understand what's going on and eventually win because they realize, this is an illusion and this is the decision I have to make or this is the next course of action and they win the puzzle. They solve the puzzle.

fun. I like it. Yeah. So my question is to the audience, share an idea in the comments or tag us on socials. If you had the ability to change one tournament challenge or add one, what would it be?

Jonathan (34:26.786)
Are you enjoying today's side quest? Rate the show to help others discover it. Join us in building this casual book club together, because books are better with friends.

Slava (34:42.882)
jumping back into the plot, we're at the third round. This will be one-on-one matches to the death. North Strider will prevent actual death. Only when the last member of the opposing team loses, will you be victorious. So here's where Linden and Mercy compete against the Black Dragon, who is last of his team. And his name is Nyan Blackflame. Yep. While this is happening.

and app.

Slava (35:12.888)
The monarchs are politicking as monarchs are prone to do. With Mercy and Lyndon's comparatively poor showing, the Dragon King and Regan Shen are now gaining influence. They want to wake the Dread Gods. Well, Dread Gods are awakened. I guess they want to give them a cup of coffee and open the Western Labyrinth.

I think I must have missed that when we were reading it about Raygon Shen wants to give the wandering what is it the wandering wandering giant now the wandering What's it? my gosh, I can't believe I can't remember it Raygon Shen wants to give the tiger king a cup of coffee

If he succeeds, Akura's territory will be devastated. To regain the influence, they must send a message with how they will win round three. Fortunately for them, Linden has an idea. Rather than having Mercy crush him, let Linden battle Black Flame to Black Flame. So Linden asks Fury's guidance in choosing a weapon and also wants access to the Soul Smith Foundry. If I remember correctly, you're the scholar here, correct me.

Jonathan, Lyndon emerges from this experience, not only with a new weapon, you can tell us what that weapon is, but also with a deeper understanding of how his path works, his techniques and the tools he needs for a more cohesive, a more robust fighting style. Fury mentors Lyndon and helps him refine his approach to combat.

I'm wondering if I'm correct in my assessment and the first read through, because it seems like this moment underscores, from my perspective, least, Lyndon's journey. It combines his resourcefulness, his ability to think through tactics, his strategic thinking, if you will, to overcome challenges, where in previous books, he's kind of seen as a guy who's trying to take the easy way out or trying to get as much as he can from a partner, an ally. He's always trying to...

Slava (37:19.628)
be a step ahead, but it's from a perspective of, a position of fear and insecurity and being a weakling here. He goes, I can take my resourcefulness and withdraw us helping me and me. I can overcome challenges head on. don't always have to sideline myself or do this kind of two step thing.

being

Jonathan (37:43.756)
Well, I want to back up because you asked me which weapon Lyndon makes and he makes a shield crafted from turtle shell that's made of force Madra. It doesn't really do what he hopes because. Nyan. Let me, let me take a quick side quest. What do you know about PCP, the drug in our real world? PCP basically unhinges your body in some sense and gives you, has the opportunity to give you like.

unfounded and unbridled strength. Go, go Google this stuff. Like just some wild stories of like people lifting cars and just, just crazy stuff. That's the way that I read Nyan's madness, where it literally just like removes him from being connected to his body and has this just unbridled gushing out of strength and power and raw exertion of himself. Because it doesn't matter, but his body's not trying to keep himself safe. So he's just like.

releasing all of this fury, literally, against his opponent, which would be Linden, which is why Linden almost dies in this fight. But he uses a little blue to try to help him overcome that because the same way that he cleansed Orthos with little blue, little blue is kind of his wild card, if you will. And he is able to help Nyan get back to a place of sanity. But Linden also dies.

It's this like weird moment of like, did he, did he win? Did he lose? Kinda seems like he lost.

It kind of seems like he lost, if we're talking about character growth and Linden understanding himself better, maybe he also kind of won. And I don't want to wax philosophical for no reason, but there is his death, which North Strider reverses, but also him coming out on the other end with more understanding of himself.

Jonathan (39:42.326)
Well, I mean, the Uncrowned King Tournament is literally for all the marbles in the Cradle universe. So had he been in the single elimination round challenge, yes, he would have lost. But my commentary on your thoughts, I think I agree with that. don't see anything that stands out that would speak against that, if you will. who do you think, so this is book seven. We've got five more books. Who's the big bad guy going to be in the series moving forward?

or who are the couple big bad guys if you think there's more than one.

Well, it's the Mad King, it's the Dread Gods. Yep. Some of the Abaddon seem less than friendly because they also destroy worlds or at least let them die. Yep. The monarchs, as we've mentioned earlier, they are either ignorant or cowardly when it comes to the Dread Gods.

That's on the Cradle universe level and you kind of covered each of these actually. So you covered the Mad King being the bad, bad guy Cradle universe wise. You covered the Dread Gods, which are kind of like a looming bad guy that everyone, regardless of whether or not you like the monarchs have to deal with. And then third, a little more locally, I guess I'll call it or like present for the main characters is like the monarchs. That's pretty good. Are there any monarchs that stand out to you from this current reading?

that you think are going to be like, clearly this person is going to be one of them or whatever.

Slava (41:06.626)
North Strider is a good guy, I think. Reagan Shin, he seems to be a douchebag. His hate for Lyndon seems more than just a superiority thing. He seems to be manipulative, self-serving. He wields immense influence, both politically and militarily, but it's all for himself. None of it is, we're in this worldwide battle, despite me politicking in plain

in a way that benefits my clan more than benefits anybody else, there is at least an underlying sliver of we're all in this together. He seems to be absolutely self-serving. He's orchestrating events to maintain his dominance, and he seems to be in direct opposition to Akura Malus and the other monarchs. And if we're to believe as the reader that Akura Malus is better than she's been portrayed, then we might still hate her.

by book 12, but right now she's sort of, you know, a neutral evil, if you will.

I like that. A neutral evil. Whatever that means.

Shen is portrayed as a primary antagonist in the whole Uncrowned King Tournament. He's driven by desire for power and control.

Jonathan (42:27.896)
So your neutral evil comment reminds me of something that is in the Art of War by Sun Tzu where he says, enemy of my enemy is my friend, which is what I feel like you just described about Akuramalus. So, Raygon Shen, from what you've stated, the enemy, Raygon Shen, of my enemy, Akuramalus, is my friend. So I think I'm saying it backwards, but you get the point.

That's true because he sees others as pawns, Shen does. From that, we get an insight into how he operates. And because Akura has Linden on her clan, irrespective of the reason, because we like Mercy and she's part of Akura Malice's clan, that makes us want to align with Akura Malice despite what we might think of her against Shen.

just bringing out all the old literature from Greek mythology to Chinese war strategy.

And then finally we have Sheshet Kunaz, who's the leader of the Dragon Clan. That's another bad guy, if you will. But for me, the one that stands out more than anybody is the Mad King from the prologue.

So the Hound descends and offers the winner of the Uncrowned King Tournament this incredibly powerful weapon. Who do you think is going to win? And who do you think they're going to kill with it? Not to get ahead of ourselves because the end of Uncrowned doesn't even finish the tournament, which some people don't like this about Will's writing. The book is called Uncrowned, so you expect that the Ark finishes the tournament.

Slava (43:55.884)
What a question.

Jonathan (44:09.186)
But Will finishes like mid action. The tournament's not over, but we talked about this in like book four, I think, might've been, I think it was book four where the action is still moving. It's like the action hasn't stopped. This isn't, this isn't a, a nicely knit story. And, to paraphrase JT, one of our guests from earlier cradle episodes, Eastern narrative stories don't really specifically the journey to the West parody is not the right.

word but like inspiration for this book is the story doesn't end there's no end to the story it just keeps going

Who does he try to kill with it?

E, so you think that the winner of the tournament is a man.

Yes. No. Now that you, may be now down.

Jonathan (44:57.28)
I want you to question your entire sanity. That's it. Not a big ask. So you think it's a woman? Okay. A Quorumalch.

case it's a she. I think it's a woman. I don't know what the woman's name is. Cora Mercy. Kills a Linden. It's a real big twist in book eight.

How dare you not love me?

we got to get back to that. I still have thoughts about it. I know I'm probably reaching. I've said that for the last four times or five times I've brought it up.

the fun of the book club, right? we, with our assertions and our thoughts of like, I think this is going to happen. And like, we're using the author's details that they've showed us about the story and the characters and everything at the moment. And we're making assumptions and assertions about like where the story's going. And they're not necessarily even wrong because we don't know yet. Sorry. Anyway, continue who, who, who wins and what do they do with penance?

Slava (45:49.792)
What is penance? It's a weapon.

a weapon that the hound is going to gift to the winner of the tournament and it basically puts the monarchs in their place because the weapon can be used to kill a monarch and nothing can be done to stop it. That's why this is so big because the underlords were these like ants basically to monarchs, right?

I'm guessing, totally guessing. If it's a good guy killing a bad guy, it's one of our, one of our team members. And if it's a she, it's Mercy or Yeren killing, I guess, one of the dragons because that's what they're trying to kill and they can't kill a dragon. If it's a bad guy, it's...

Who's the woman that's a bad guy?

We don't know a lot about this person yet, but the nine o'clock court, I can't remember her name, but she's parading as an underlord at the moment.

Slava (46:45.472)
Yeah. what's her name? Whatever her name is, she kills somebody. It's not going to be anybody from our team. The main characters as we know them, we're going to continue on. So that's my guess. One of our team, Yeren or Mercy kills the dragon or a bad guy kills one of the clan representatives and it creates a shit storm because reasons we need some sort of a drama and conflict. Let's move back.

to some of the characters. And I want to talk about Lyndon. Because in the next chapters, and we're somewhere in the teens or at this point in the plot, Lyndon is the underdog no more. His status shifts. He is better in tune with himself. His abilities surprise not only the crowd, but even his allies are like, wow, Lyndon is advancing. And I think this is a better answer to

The initial question you asked about characters, this is where that pivotal moment for his character is, where he begins to find more and more confidence to match his growing power.

So this is, you're talking about, just for clarity for the audience, you're talking about after he defeats sort of in his own way, Nyan, the dragon, black flame dragon. And then I'm going to just say like after the dragon team and Sephara in cold blood kill Nyan. And we see Linden kind of like taking in both his win and his acknowledgement of the strength that he has. Is that fair? Is that a fair understanding?

Yeah, that's pretty fair. Okay, all right.

Jonathan (48:25.164)
Well, at this point, we've seen a little bit of emotional stuff when off the tournament grounds between Lyndon, Mercy, Yeren, Ethan, et cetera, you said about 10 minutes ago, you wanted to get back to that, like your thoughts on romance and Lyndon and Mercy and Yeren. So want to clear some space for that real quick because it sounded like you had thoughts.

Yeah, a little bit. I wrote down some stuff from Lyndon's perspective and then from Yeren's perspective. So from Lyndon's POV, we see this admiration and respect for Yeren's strength. If we go back to book one, from the beginning of their journey together, Lyndon has looked up to Yeren for her strength, her skills, her determination. She represents the type of artist Lyndon inspires to be. In Uncrowned, this admiration deepens.

And you know, he has seen her evolve into an underlady and everything that she achieves, everything she does, I think inspires him to push himself even harder. And this is the bud, if you will. Yeah, this is the bud of the flower. I'm really stretching for analogies, but this is the, the bud of their companionship and trust. Lyndon views Yeren as one of his closest companions.

E-Bird.

Slava (49:45.71)
Someone who has been with him through the most difficult moments of his journey. She's protected him, she's rescued him. His trust in her judgment, her skill is fairly unshakable. And this is where those subtle romantic undertones come in. Lyndon's feelings for Yeren aren't overtly romantic, but they hint at a deeper connection. I mentioned this in the previous book. It's more obvious.

from Yaron's perspective in that book, but still for Lyndon, there's this thing that goes on where his moments of concern for her, for her wellbeing might go beyond friendship, even if he hasn't consciously recognized it. And it's just these little subtle things. And I couldn't even give you a line from the book right now, but there's these subtle internal monologue moments where you're like, this is more than just a sisterly or brotherly affection for the other. From Yaron's...

perspective now towards Lyndon in the last few books shows a visible worry for Lyndon, especially if we're going to be book specific, especially after his fight with pride. You know, she has an anger towards Akura and the Lords who dismiss Lyndon and her determination to support him kind of highlight this sisterly loyalty to Lyndon.

Sisterly, but I want to get with you loyalty to Linden. That's what you're saying. Sort of. Next time on SideQuest, 50 Shades

Yeah.

Slava (51:16.992)
Ooh, 50 Shades of Linden. Here's where I make my case. Because of her fear of loss, when that's directed at Linden, it manifests her protectiveness towards him during dangerous situations. And the subtlety from her perspective comes in during her occasional hesitation to express her emotions fully. Because if she was just like, Hey, you're my buddy, you're my pal, you're my team, let's go get this. It kind of stops there. But in her internal monologues, you kind of feel.

that there's more to it. So like Lyndon, Yaren's feelings are not explicitly romantic, but the connection between them hints at that possibility. Here's where my assessment of it comes in, or my belief that this is a possibility comes in. That connection hits at a possibility and her admiration for him is quiet. And then her occasional teasing, which is not really what she portrays on the outside. She kind of portrays herself as this strong, bristly,

But at times she kind of lets her guards down and this to the reader, to this reader, shows that she values them deeply and possibly in a way she hasn't fully acknowledged. So they're both trying to figure this out because they were thrust together. They became companions and sojourners. They became friends. And there's always been a brotherly, sisterly camaraderie between them. I've said that numerous times.

But in the last few books, the last two books specifically, there's these moments and they're subtle where I think they're trying to figure out, and they don't know what's happening maybe, trying to figure out if their feelings go beyond that. I'm not even sure they can articulate it, given the world they're in and what's going on with them, the situation they find themselves in. They probably can't even articulate it right now, but in the back of their minds, these things keep popping up.

Remind me, you wanted to not read romance books, but it sounds like you do read romance books for yourself. That's what I heard.

Slava (53:19.95)
See, this is why I don't want to read romance books, because it'll just be me pontificating on characters' feelings towards each other.

You are Lyndon's throbbing heart. Moving on, moving up.

I am Yeren, strobing bloodshadow.

And this took a turn folks. It took a turn.

I'm Mercy's throbbing puzzle box.

Jonathan (53:42.606)
I think you meant, black stat. Why are we, I, you ruined this. You're, you're not allowed to be on the podcast anymore. That's what you're not allowed to. So moving on, let's wrap this book up because we're coming up on, on time here. Are there any other things that stand out to you? Be it North Strider, be it the shock of, North Strider lying to us about the.

people that fight in the single elimination round for the top 16 spots or anything else, anything, whatever he's up to in this book.

Yeah, nothing about Aethon and nothing specific comes to mind. The notes that I have are very general for this section of the book. We see political power balances. There's shifting alliances that are hinted at and the consequences of each of the factions performance in the tournament are kind of felt because they're definitely losers, definite winners. The seeds for the next book are well planted. There's these looming threats, the Dread Gods.

And of course, because of the prologue, larger cosmic conflicts. And while this portion of the tournament is over, the big portion, the important portion, the true battle, if you will, quote unquote, is just beginning. Nothing specific stands out plot wise because Will is, you know, counting down, not counting down, but landing the book here. But there's also these setups for, wow, what's happening next.

You're left with what I said earlier. You're left with Lindon's no longer the underdog. Yeren seems to found new resolve. We're now left with Tuna next week when Aethon and the team do some more miraculous insanity. Possibly kill a dragon with a thing called Penance. If you have something to set me up for, you think there's a moment that we should discuss. I'm all for it.

Jonathan (55:39.018)
Interesting.

Jonathan (55:45.794)
When I first read this, I've mentioned it a couple of times just in passing, Norstrider sets us up. Hey, Lyndon's going to battle Saffronitoth, Yeren's going to battle Mercy. People start prepping for their battles and then suddenly, boom, actually Mercy is not going to battle Yeren, Yeren's going to battle Lyndon. That was shocking. That caught me off guard because we're like, it's a monarch narrator. Tell the truth. Give them the chance to practice and prepare. Nope. Nope, nope, nope.

Flot twist, boom. That was jarring for me in a good way. That wasn't jarring for you. It doesn't sound like it was jarring for you.

I don't think so. I don't because I didn't write it down. When I have something that stands out to me, I make a note of it and then we, you know, pull it into our template and we talk about it. I saw the end of the book as this setup for the next book. Cause you have spectators astonished at how the tournament so far is unfolding. We have this weapon that's introduced. can be used to kill anybody.

And that's it. Like that's all I remember from the book. And this wasn't something I read last year. This is a few weeks fresh in my mind. There was nothing that I wrote down going like, wow. And I wish I had more, but nothing stood out to me to the point where I was compelled to write it down.

Right, right.

Jonathan (57:07.064)
What about Yaren's, before, rewinding just a half second, there's this, touching's not the right word, but like, emotional moment from the Winter Sage when she's watching Yaren's performance just before the Yaren-Linden battle, and Aethyn is coaching Yaren on her fighting with her spiritual perception instead of everything that she sees. Yaren has to tap into kind of trusting herself and her spiritual perception because

Prior to this, she's kind of just like brute strength going after things. Not that she's not skilled in her sword path, path of the endless sword. She has to grow because it's a cultivation novel. We know that she's grown based on the external point of view of the winter sage who's like, my gosh, she's like a mirror of the sword sage whom the winter sage loved. That didn't stand out to you at all?

Well, she still hasn't forgiven Yaron for the death of her mentor, right? But there's this appreciation, there's still this emotional response to watching Yaron's performance. So there's an internal battle, but that didn't stand out to me as anything Just me then. But I think the fact that we have Winter Stage, this is what's cool, we have Winter Sage and...

Alright, cool.

Slava (58:31.392)
She has the same sword as Yeren's mentor. And she's going to be teaching Yeren, mentoring Yeren. That's a great setup. This little bit of conflict, although it didn't stand out to me as something noteworthy, she's a character who apparently loved the sword sage and he's dead. And she believes that Yeren is to blame for that.

Which is silly, but yes. Yeren's the mentee, Yeren's the child. If the sword sage died, anyway, all right, I've got opinions on this. Sorry, please finish.

What the characters don't know, we as the readers know. So it's a great, great conflict. Cause you're like, Oh wow, what is she going to do? Is the winter sage is going to be a big old dick to Yaren? Well, no. Yaren is obviously well taught by the sword sage who, as you mentioned, the winter sage has loved, does love. So there's this great setup for a relationship in the subsequent books. The winter sage will maybe find more admiration.

We'll find more admiration for Yeren. She can have a blessed memory of the sword sage because of what he has instilled into Yeren.

That's fair. And eventually the winter sage and Yeren do get a little bit of time to train together. So in the next book. So you're right on there. But one last side quest before we call this episode, Kaputskis. If you could get a small trailer of this book animated, like what are the scenes that you would have animated from this book to encourage people to watch this animated film?

Slava (59:52.077)
Excellent.

Slava (01:00:10.038)
Excellent question. Orthos in Sacred Valley, the destruction of the worlds by the Mad King, and then the fast paced action of the fights. Specifically Yaren and who does she fight? Whoever she fights and Linden and Pride. Yeah, Linden and Pride, but the big ones, the ones where, the ones of the most actions, the ones that have the most consequences to them. And maybe that scene with

a lot of people.

Slava (01:00:39.95)
Pride and Linden and the Crown and then maybe Akura laughing and the Sword Sage, Winter Sage having her internal conflict and ending with the Arena, stay tuned kind of a thing where the Arena is now empty waiting for the next, the second part of the tournament.

All right. The only thing that you didn't add that I would is the tension of the battle with Linden and Nyan, Black Flame. I would, everything else I'm like, yeah, that checks out. And then I might even in the front end put the Dread Gods crushing some sort of small town just to like add that as a looming, looming thing. But otherwise, that's pretty good.

yeah.

Slava (01:01:25.12)
Yeren's cloud being destroyed by the dragons. That would be a good one.

Yeah, well great. This was a good time. Hopefully you guys enjoyed spending a little time with us in Cradle. Next episode you'll find your favorite guests for the Cradle series are back in action. But before we go, be sure to share this episode with fellow book adventurers. It helps more listeners discover side quests. Join us next time for more story adventures. Until then, happy questing.