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In the December episode of Chattering with ISFM, host Nathalie Dowgray explores how advancements in communication strategies and genetic science are shaping feline welfare.
Yaiza Gomez-Mejias and Tamsin Durston discuss the benefits of positive psychology in veterinary care, highlighting how effective client communication and behaviour change can enhance the wellbeing of both animals and their caregivers. This episode features the first part of their conversation, with part two to follow in a future episode.
In the second segment, Kelly St. Denis interviews Leslie Lyons about feline genetic testing. Their conversation uncovers the role of DNA variants, the importance of resources like OMIA for genetic insights, and the validation needed to ensure accurate testing. Together, they explore how these innovations contribute to tackling breed-specific health challenges and improving feline welfare overall.
For further reading material please visit:
For ISFM members, full recordings of each episode of the podcast is available for you to listen to at portal.icatcare.org. To become an ISFM member, or find out more about our Cat Friendly schemes, visit icatcare.org
Host:
Nathalie Dowgray, BVSc, MANZCVS, PgDip, MRCVS, PhD, Head of ISFM, International Society of Feline Medicine, International Cat Care, Tisbury, Wiltshire, UK
Speakers:
Yaiza Gomez-Mejias, LdaVet MANZCVS (Medicine of Cats) CertAP (SAM-F) Acr AVEPA, ISFM Community Coordinator and Small Animal Clinician
Tamsin Durston, RVN, CAB, MSc Psych, Veterinary Nurse, Clinical Animal Behaviourist and Human Behaviour Change Practitioner
Kelly St. Denis, MSc, DVM, DABVP (Feline), Co-editor of the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery and JFMS Open Reports, St Denis Veterinary Professional Corporation, Powassan, Ontario, Canada
Leslie Lyons, B.S., M.S., Ph.D., Gilbreath-McLorn Endowed Professor of Comparative Medicine, Veterinary Medicine & Surgery and JFMS Author
Creators and Guests
Host
Nathalie Dowgray
What is Chattering with iCatCare?
Welcome to Chattering With iCatCare, the official monthly podcast of International Cat Care, hosted by Yaiza Gomez-Mejias (Veterinary Community Co-ordinator). Each month, we chatter about cats and cat-friendly practices with industry experts and contributors to The Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery. Each episode contains highlights from our longer discussions and interviews, which are accessible to iCatCare members at portal.icatcare.org. If you would like access to our full episodes, would like to become an iCatCare Veterinary Society Member, or find out more about our Cat-Friendly schemes, visit icatcare.org.
Hello and welcome to the December
episode of Chattering with ISFM.
I'm Nathalie Dowgray, head of ISFM
and host of this month's podcast.
Our clinical spotlight this month
is focused on genetic testing,
practical do's and don'ts for cats.
Kelly St.
Denis will be speaking with Leslie
Lyons about the practicalities of
breeding cats free of health issues.
But first, Yaiza Gomez Meijas
will be discussing client
communication with Tamsin Durston.
Could you tell us what positive
psychology consists of?
Positive psychology is about adding
value to our lives, to the lives of the
animals that we care about, and we try
to help with our daily work through giving
meaning, fulfilment and quality of life.
So it's about really thinking about
how can I give this life more meaning?
How can I create the conditions
in which lives can thrive.
And that means that we need to really
understand what wellbeing means
for our human species and all the
different animal species we care about
it's not enough to be physically
well, the physiological approach
would be, I want this animal to
have optimum physical fitness.
I want them to be in the
best condition they can be.
But actually the positive psychology
approach would say, and I want them to
feel really good all the time, because
you can be in peak physical condition
and be having a really bad time.
And that's what positive psychology does.
We want people and animals to flourish,
live lives that they are happy in
and that they can really enjoy,
despite all the stresses of the world.
Vets need to help caregivers change
their behaviour to help their pets.
Behaviour change is a term we are
hearing more in the sector these
days, but can you give us an overview
of this human behaviour change?
It is an emerging science.
As a clinical animal behaviourist,
veterinary nurse and a dog training
instructor, what I'm trying to do is
influence my clients, animal carers, to
change their behaviour, to bring about
a sense of wellbeing in the animal.
With veterinary clients, we want
them to comply, follow treatment
regimes, keep their appointments.
I might be asking a client to make
some real life routine changes
that they might not be capable of.
If you could make these changes
to your life, that would have a
dramatic impact on your animal's
experience and physical health but
how do we get people to do things?
You can't tell somebody 'Just do this'
because none of us do what we're told.
Behavioural change science is really
about understanding those influences
on human behaviour and thinking about
where, as a veterinary profession,
we have leverage in the way an
individual and a society behaves.
How do we exert our influence?
How do we bring about behaviour
change that's lasting?
Some of it involves changing
the environment to make the
behaviour you want more likely.
How do I set the conditions to
bring about the behaviour I want?
How do I make that behaviour reinforcing?
The threat of punishment
doesn't really work.
In the animal world, we
don't use punishment.
I don't recommend positive
punishment, it creates disconnect,
that's not positive psychology.
That's feeling frightened
and anxious all the time.
How do we make behaving the
way we want feel good for them.
It is difficult because
every single person and every
single animal is so unique.
They have their own motivations.
It's about thinking we won't be able
to influence everybody, but how do we
connect with most people to bring about
the behaviour we want and then hope
that other people will then see that
behaviour is successful and follow it.
It's so interesting.
Motivational interviewing is
one of the tools we can use.
What is motivational interviewing?
Motivational interviewing is a form of
positive psychology, it's a consulting
style, developed in a very practical
way for healthcare professionals by
two psychologists who are experts in
behaviour change and psychological
behaviour change, Milner and Rolnick.
And this came about at
the beginning of 2002.
It's a type of consulting where rather
than actually trying to tell somebody
what to do, you draw it out of them.
You empower them to realise they can
be the architect of their own change,
people need to emotionally buy into
making change for their animal or
themselves, if they are emotionally
connected, they're more likely to do it.
It's about being non judgmental and
seeing the client as an equal partner.
It's challenging to think of the client as
an equal partner in their animal's care.
But motivational interviewing really
thinks about the client's own argument
for change, and drawing out their reasons,
and their reasons may differ from ours.
I want the client to do certain things
because it will make the animal feel
better, but the client, their reason for
doing it may be completely different.
To really engage with motivation it's
about establishing rapport where they
feel they can actually share with you.
In veterinary practice, in my experience
some clients won't open up to certain
conditions, but will come out and talk
to the receptionist, or they'll talk
to a different person in the practice
because they come out and go, I didn't
want to say to the vet, but actually
my dog's growling at the grandkids,
what can I do?
And they perhaps haven't wanted
to say to the vet or nurse
because they feel embarrassed.
Might be judged.
They feel this is my animal.
I should know what to do.
Asking another person for
help makes you vulnerable.
The concept of motivational interviewing
is about understanding the client's
perspective, being respectful of
their needs and wishes, setting
the situation so they feel they can
open up, really listening to their
language, thinking about where they
are at this point in their life with
their relationship with their animal.
How willing to change are they and by
change I mean to follow our treatment
plan, because that will involve changes
even if it is just three times a day
now you're going to be giving this
medicine, it affects their daily routine.
They might not physically have the
capability, how often do we hand out
medicine and we don't check with people?
Are you okay opening the bottle of this?
Do you have someone to help you?
It might be somebody with arthritis
who struggles to open medicine bottles,
but they don't want to say, and unless
we try to draw out what might be
barriers to following our treatment
regime, we perhaps set them up to fail.
Let's say it could be a diabetic
cat, rather than saying to the
client, I want you to inject the
cat, to look at litter trays, etc.
Actually, talking to the client and
saying, what do you know about diabetes?
It's saying to the client, have
you heard of this condition,?
Do you know anyone who's experienced this?
What's your feeling about it?
That tells us where they are and how
receptive they might be and you're
seeking permission from the client
with motivational interviewing to
talk to them about treatment regimes.
That emphasises their autonomy
because we want them to feel powerful.
We want them to feel as if
they are making the decision.
Rather than saying, this is what
you have to do, we can say would
it be okay if I shared different
options for treating your cat?
And then you can tell me, and you
can decide what you feel would
work best for your situation,
your lifestyle, and your family.
And ultimately, your cat.
And that really, it hands back power to
the client to feel as if they are with
you as a partner in helping their animal,
which is important because they're more
likely to commit to our treatment plans.
And now, Kelly St.
Denis will be speaking with Lesley
Lyons about her JFMS Clinical
Spotlight article, Genetic Testing
Practical Do's and Don'ts for Cats.
Welcome Dr Lyons.
Oh, thank you, Kelly.
It's wonderful to join you today.
could you tell us about what a variant is?
A gene is made up of a
specific DNA sequence.
Those sequences for any given gene are
very well conserved, meaning they're the
same throughout various different animals.
We tend now to use the word DNA
variant instead of mutation because
everyone gets the wrong idea with
mutation, that mutation is bad.
So changing a base pair or a sequence
within the DNA code, that's the
variation that we're talking about.
You've actually changed an adenine for
guanine or you can flip a sequence.
There's all kind of different ways you
can have variants and variants occur
through mutation and that's a good thing,
though, because if we don't have mutation,
we don't develop genetic diversity.
The genetic diversity we have now
is due to historical mutations,
some are good, some bad, most are
neutral and really don't do anything.
And so it's actually my job to figure
out what mutations are good and
bad and which ones are neutral and
what we should do with those guys.
Very cool.
Thank you for explaining that.
I noticed we have a feline genome
sequence and the online Mendelian
inheritance and animals list.
OMIA.
Yes.
OMIA.
I like that.
That's good.
What can veterinarians do with this list?
What is the O M I A and
how would we use it?
I use it all the time.
And so if I'm wondering whether a
disease has been documented in a cat,
I can go to PubMed, put in that
disease, say domestic cat, and get
everything or I'm more likely to
go to OMIA and try the same search
because if it's been documented,
it'll bring up all the scientific
publications that describe that disease.
If a genetic mutation has been
identified, it will bring up
the genetic information as well.
This should be where you go and not to Dr.
Google, right?
And, you're going to find all the
scientific information that you need for a
disease or particularly for a DNA variant.
It's a wonderful resource.
I did have a look at it.
It looks quite amazing.
And for our listeners, like Dr.
Lyons does explain in the
clinical spotlight article how
to approach it for our purposes.
Another concept that you discuss
in the clinical spotlight article
is that concept of validation.
Whether it's actually resulting in
a disease phenotype, for example,
I wonder if you could explain
that for us a little bit too?
Yeah, there's two aspects to that.
First off, when we identify a
DNA variant, it's usually within
a specific breed or population.
And so, that variant can get into
other populations by different methods.
One is by crossbreeding.
So a good example is Persians
with polycystic kidney disease.
They have bred to Scottish Folds and
Selkirk Rex and other breeds as well.
And so they've moved polycystic kidney
disease into those breeds as well.
But sometimes you could have the
exact same mutation occur again.
And a good example of that is pyruvate
kinase deficiency, where historically
we know that it caused disease in
Abyssinians and Somalis, but now we see
it in Bengals, and I think a commercial
lab has documented into Maine Coons.
And so you could see that it would
go into Bengals because Bengals used
Abyssinians early in their development.
But gee, why a Maine Coon?
How did it get there?
So we're not sure if that's a new mutation
or the same mutation and there's been some
type of crossbreeding that we don't know.
And so you always need to, when
these mutations show up in other
breeds that are unexpected, you
should do a validation process.
Do we find disease associated
with that same mutation?
We do know that the genetic background
of an individual, meaning other genetic
mutations that an individual has, can
sometimes override a disease and cause
something called incomplete penetrance.
You have a mutation that should cause a
disease but you don't have the disease.
And we're now starting to
understand the mechanisms which
cause incomplete penetrance.
That doesn't mean we shouldn't
try to eliminate those variants,
we have to figure out whether
they cause disease or not.
If they do, we should be
working towards trying to really
eradicate them as much as we can.
Is there value for us if we find a
cat with HCM and it's not a Maine
Coon, to send for whole genome
sequencing to see if there's a
different mutation causing the disease?
Is value to the research community?
Is there value to the
pet caregiver or breeder?
Yeah, absolutely.
First I would order the two tests for
ragdolls and Maine coon cats, because
you never know, as we get more data,
then we get more or less confidence.
So should you sequence a cat?
If you sequence a cat, you
might find the causal variant.
That chance is about 50 50, 60 40,
that you would find it from DNA
sequencing, and if you did, now you
know that mutation, if it's a breed
cat, probably a lot more important
because then you want to make sure
that's not segregating within the breed.
If it's a random bred cat, probably
that cat's not going to be breeding.
However, we're always moving forward
with, if we know the gene and
mutation, targeted therapies, drug
therapies and immunotherapies are
being developed that can be an option.
So DNA sequencing could give you a chance
to figure out whether you know the gene
and the mutation and maybe that will lead
you to a targeted therapy for the cat.
Thank you for listening.
If you're an ISFM member, don't forget
you can access the full version of
the podcast and all the other ISFM
member benefits including congress
recordings, monthly webinars, the
clinical club, the discussion forum, and
much much more at portal.icatcare.org.
We'll be back again next month
with more from the world of
feline medicine and JFMS.