S0527 - Meleches Shabbos - (Klal 20 Siman 9) - Bishul - 30 - Stirring - 2

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Bishul 30 - Stirring 2 (Klal 20 Siman 9) S0527

We are continuing in siman 9, discussing the concept of hagasah, stirring a pot. The Chayei Adam wrote that hagasah (or meigis, in the verb form) has the halacha of bishul. And not only is hagasah assur, but removing the food from the pot using a spoon or ladle is also considered hagasah, if the food is not fully cooked.

The Chayei Adam continues, and writes that if the food is fully cooked, one can spoon from it without any issues of hagasah. Since the person’s intent is not to cook, and the food is fully cooked, it is muttar.
The Chayei Adam adds the caveat that the above applies only when the pot is off of the fire. A kli rishon continues to cook even when off of the fire, and the stirring process helps it cook even when there is no heat source.
In a case where it is still on the fire, the halacha is different. The Chayei Adam writes that if the pot is on the fire, it is assur to spoon anything out of the pot, even though the food is fully cooked. The Chayei Adam explains that even though there is no problem of hagasah, so certainly there should be no problem of scooping out, there is a shita that even when a food is fully cooked, if it is on the fire, it is considered bishul to perform hagasah. If so, spooning will be a concern as well.
It is a machlokes rishonim whether hagasah is a concern in a kli rishon on the fire when the food is fully cooked. In the opinion that it is a problem, the question is whether it is an issur deoraysa because it adds bishul to the food, an issur deoraysa because it is an action which is normally part of the bishul process, or whether it is an issur derabanan out of concern that one will come to perform hagasah when the food is not fully cooked. The issur of scooping the food out of the kli rishon is even a further extension, yet the Chayei Adam holds that one should be machmir even on scooping.

Historically, this point leads to a fascinating question. Original crockpots came as a single unit, and not as a crock which could be inserted into a heating element. Thus, one could have an issue in that even when the food inside is fully cooked, it is a kli rishon which is still on the fire, so the food cannot even be scooped out according to the Chayei Adam.
One suggestion of the poskim was to place the crockpot on a timer, so that when it was time to remove the food, the “fire” was no longer existent. Once it is no longer on the fire, hagasah when fully cooked is muttar, so certainly scooping out is not a problem. Another solution was to remove the entire contents into a large serving container, so that one was not scooping but removing the contents. Although the heating element is muktzah, the food inside it made the entire object muttar. A third approach, brought by the Chazon Ish, is that bshaas hadechak, the issur is only to perform hagasah when the food is on the fire, but scooping is not extended to when on the fire.

We will clarify more points about this siman in the upcoming shiurim, be’ezras Hashem.

Summary
Hagasah and scooping are assur while a kli rishon is on the fire.
When the kli rishon is off of the fire, if the food is fully cooked, both hagasah and scooping are muttar. If they are not fully cooked, both are assur.
When the kli rishon is attached to the fire source, such as the original crockpot, one can avoid the issue of scooping by either timing the machine to turn off when it is time to remove the food, or dumping the entire contents out at once. Additionally, bshaas hadechak, one can rely on the Chazon Ish that spooning was never included in the concern of hagasah on a fire.