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In Episode 6 Matt & Nigel talk to Hannah & Ben and ask the question how do we remember the poor? Hannah used to live and work in Uganda and set up a charity there while living and serving in the country, whilst Ben currently works for the Red Cross and has been involved in the humanitarian sector for the last 20 years. They talk about different types of poverty and give advice on what we can do to help and remember the poor.
At the beginning of Galatians, Paul sets out his testimony as evidence of the truth of the gospel of Jesus and it's the same with us as disciples. The gospel of Jesus is true and our testimony of life is part of that evidence which illustrates that it's true. As Jesus says in Matthew Chapter 7 :16 "By their fruit you will recognise them."
So as we think about the message of Galatians in this Playmakers podcast, we're talking to real people and thinking about how the gospel of Jesus has transformed, underpinned and built the lives of men and women of God, men, and women in our community. How do they live in freedom and guard that freedom in Christ?
These are not the testimonies of people who are far away, but people who sit next to us at CCBS on Sundays and in small groups, real people who show that Jesus is Lord in their daily lives.
Hello and welcome to Playmakers Galatians podcast. I am your host, Matt, and I'm joined in the studio by my co-host, Nigel. Hello Nigel. Hello, Matt. How are you? I'm very well, thank you. And we've got two new guests with us in the studio today. We've got Hannah and we've got Ben.
Guys, do you wanna introduce yourselves?
Okay. Yeah. Hi, I'm Hannah. , myself and my husband Phil and our two children, Isaac Till have been part of, Community church for the last seven years. And I guess part of the reason I'm here, um, today is that we used to live and work in Uganda,, and we set up a charity while we were there.
So I guess that's my qualifications for being here. Yep. You are
more than qualified for being here. Hannah. Thank you so much. And Ben, tell us a bit about you.
Hi Matt. So I'm Ben. I'm married to Rachel. We've got Zoe and Hannah, our daughters, we've. Part of community church in 2015. Um, and I currently work for the Red Cross, so I've been involved in the humanitarian sector for the last
20 or so years.
Fantastic. So you two are very, very qualified. It's lovely to have you here, Ben. Um, we've got, uh, another big question, um, and I'll introduce that now. Uh, that is how do we remember the poor. But Nigel, what's that got to do with
Galatians? Okay. So I get the, uh, dubious honor of introducing it all, all the time.
Okay, So Galatians chapter two, verse 10. Uh, Paul talks about his commissioning as an apostle to the Gentiles to take the gospel to the Gentiles, and he says that a core caveat of that commissioning is that the apostles in Jerusalem said you should continue to remember the poor. So take the gospel.
But continue to remember the poor, and it's really important. It seems to me that that is not an addition to the gospel. It is absolutely central. There is no gospel without it. So as I read Galatians and as I was reading it and thinking about what we should do for these podcasts, it seemed to me that remember the poor rang out and the, uh, early church was known for its care and love of widows and orphans.
Poor people. It was known as that in opposition, in as a, as a complete, cultural opposition to the Roman Empire. It also seems to me it's really key that Jesus teaches about it in Matthew 25 when he is talking about the sheep and the goats. Um, he talks about people being separated from God because they didn't remember the poor, they didn't remember the homeless and the.
And also dawns on me that lot of churches think of the poor as poor in spirit. I think probably because that's a lot easier. Hospices were started by Christians. Is free education and health orphanages. Social housing equality laws came from Christians pensions. More charities than we can number today are Christian charities by foundation, the interesting thing is the charity everyone's talking about at the moment is food banks. Food banks are pretty much all run and sourced by churches, so remember the poor. The question we have is how do we remember the poor?
Well, first off, when we say the poor, who are we talking about? Exactly? What do you.
Yeah, Matt, I think that's a really, really important first question actually, because there are so many dimensions to poverty and sometimes the word, even the poor sounds quite condescending. , there's this sort of sense of you are poor. , one of the things we use, um, so I work at All Nations Christian College and we talk about the five faces of poverty.
so there's the material poverty, but that is just one aspect of poverty. So also spiritual poverty, but they go hand in hand. They are not one or the other. , civic poverty, which is the, the lack of the ability for people to shape their own future, to have a say in their rights, identity. So this can be part of a sort of embedded psyche, um, from being constantly undervalued or underrepresented, , and aspirational poverty.
So conviction that change is, Im. And I think it's really important that the church is speaking to all of those aspects of, of poverty and of being poor.
Yeah. Wow. I've, I've never thought of it that way. I mean, normally when, when, when I think of the poor, I think just who doesn't have enough money, but wow.
That's, that's really opened things up. Ben, have you got anything to
add on that? Yeah, I mean, I completely agree. There are all these different facets and, and aspects. I guess what leaps out for me, the way you've asked the question, who are the port, it reminds me. The question put to Jesus, who is my neighbor?
Um, and he always flips it around and makes you think in different ways. So, you know, we hear a lot the, the term, the message charity starts at home, but Jesus was kind of challenging that perspective, that mentality, with. The, the story of the Good Samaritan, you know, always making us think outside of our comfort zone, outside of our surroundings.
So I completely agree. I think we have to think. Poverty, that affects people, but they're people. It's not, uh, an alien other separate for ourselves. It's we're just people who all face different circumstances and I thought, Hannah, some it out really well, How that's comprised, you know, what poverty looks like.
Okay. It's also like she's a lecturer of college. She's got these notes, . But I have to say I've already learned more than I knew when I walked in. So that was really, really helpful.
Okay, fine. And, and. Again, you've mentioned these, these five facets. Hannah, Are, are they again, for me, when I think of the poor, immediately something springs to mind. It's like they're from another country. They're far away. I mean, we we're, we're quite lucky in the uk, um, I think, or especially in my little bubble, um, that maybe there aren't many poor.
But I, again, as you start to open things up, I'm thinking actually, yeah, they, they're all around us. But again, from your experience, is poverty far away from us or is it, could it be next door?
Yeah, absolutely Matt. It's not, um, something that is far away. It is something that is everywhere. So for both myself and Ben, a lot of the work we have done has been in places far away.
But if you look at society at this moment, Housing costs are going up hugely. The cost of living is going up hugely. Fuel costs are going up hugely. Rising food prices, there is poverty on our doorstep, and poverty is relative. You know that actually a wage, which in Uganda might give you a very good life here in the UK can leave you this.
Right. And I think poverty is on our doorsteps, and if we open our eyes, we can see it, in this town, in, you know, our own neighborhood.
So is part of, is part of the definition of poverty to do with the fact that it debilitates people from being able to function fully in society?
Yeah, absolutely. I think, , when one area, is affected by poverty, then it impacts all the others too.
So there's a knock on effect. Yeah, I, I guess there are different ways of framing it though, so we naturally jump to,, financial and social situation and so on. But, um, I've met people so overseas in really poor communities, but their generosity and their hospitality, their rich in so many ways, more than than we are, even though we.
Resources and finances and so on, they have a richness that I haven't seen, so frequently here. Can you
give an
example of that? Yeah. So, , after school I spent a few months volunteering in Ecuador. , and I remember the pastor of the church that we were supporting, Pastor William, he used to take us out to, to meet congregation members.
And he wouldn't tell them that we'd be visiting because if he did, they would spend all their money on, , food and drink and being hospitable and generous because that is was just the culture and their nature. So yeah, I, I'd say there's a, there's a richness, that. Isn't automatically thought about when you think about, you know, poverty in, in Africa or South America or Asia.
So it definitely is that multifaceted component. And like I said, we are all people and we have these different elements in our lives, different things that are thrown at us. , but I don't think God wants there to. Poverty for, for any of
us. Okay. So we, we've, we've discussed who the poor are, um, that they're not just far away.
That, that they are on our doorstep, that actually there's different kinds of poverty. But
can
I ask one other question in, in caveat to that? I know it could be, So is this, I'm really sorry. Is there something about our imposition of poverty on people then? Because you're talking about these amazing people in third world countries, as we would call 'em two thirds world countries.
What, I dunno what the language is. Hannah's Hannah, Hannah's looking at me as if she's just eaten a lemon. Clearly I've said something wrong. That's fine. I apologize. Please correct me. But we have these people in other contexts who are. Clearly incredibly generous, who I would as possibly Western white, male person, middle class person look at and say, Well, they're very poor.
Those poor people who wouldn't necessarily think of themselves as poor at all. Yeah,
I'd agree. Yeah, I think there are different ways of, of looking at this. , And the best ways to connect with people to understand each other's perspectives. I'm really privileged in the kinds of experiences and places I've worked, the cultures, you know, to be able to connect with people in different places all around the world.
I do counter a real privilege and some of those experiences as well. I'm sure Hannah's got more. Um, but yeah, absolutely. I, I think we're, we easily. Judge, you know, what situation somebody else is in. And as Hannah was saying, if it's different from our own situation, it's difficult to understand and connect.
But that's why our, you know, our jobs are important to try and break down these barriers and, and help people understand what is the situation of others. Um, when we oversimplify things, I don't think it helps. And therefore, , you know, what does it mean for us in our daily lives?
, how do we act in a way that God would want us to act? Um, how do we make decisions, uh, in line with his scripture and what he wants for us?
Yeah. I think, um, just drawing on what Ben said, I completely agree, but, and I think there's this. , we see it as a tension and I don't think God does, um, between sort of there is an abject poverty, you know, there is a sense of you do not have enough to make ends meat.
You do not have food to eat. Yet you are happy. You know, And so how do we at all? You live in a rich country mm-hmm. , and yet you are really happy. And that's where these facets of poverty are really important to see it as a whole, not as separate as they're not separate properties. because actually you can learn from somebody in a really poor situation who is still giving out of their poverty.
Whilst also saying, But this is injust. And actually . How can we walk alongside you? How can we help?
Yeah, I mean,
as you were saying that, Hannah, I was just thinking of, the story in, in the gospel where Jesus points out the widow who gives like her last two pennies.
To, to the church. She gives it away. She, she has nothing, and yet she's giving away, she's being generous out of that. And then he also, in contrast, looks at the, you know, the pari announcing how, how great they are. And virtue signaling, I think would probably be , what it's called,, I'm amazed that, that Jesus sees the generosity of others and he praises it. He knows people's hearts and actually, I think that's, What God is is getting out here. What's in your, in your heart as a Christian, How can you, demonstrate God's love through being, , an answer to areas of poverty, to the people that you interact with every single day?
And I, I'm reminded, Hannah of , Of a time you and Phil stood up in church and you said that there's all these different things going on in the world. There's all these different properties, there's all these issues, and you can't solve them all by yourself yet. God puts something. In each of our hearts to say, actually this is your piece of the garden to look after.
This is your piece in the, of the garden to to nurture, to bless, to work in, and to make a difference and show God's love in
that. Yeah. Um, can I just pick up on the first bit and then your second point. Go for it. Um, so firstly, when you were talking about the widow that gave, and God's seeing her heart, But not only in that, in pointing it out, he turned the tables of injustice.
Mm-hmm. , he said, Here is a woman who would not get noticed. Here is somebody who was poor, who was giving very little, who would not get credit for that. So not only did he see her heart, but he also advocated for the poor and the needy. He turned, you know, he fought for justice in that. So that was something I just wanted to pour out of that, that it's not just noticing it, but he also.
You know, flipped away around cultural norms. Yeah. Um, in, he was good at that, wasn't he? He was quite good at that. Yeah. I'd quite like to be able to do that a bit more. , . Um, the other thing he said, Yeah, I mean, we can't take credit for that wisdom. Um, it was a friend in Uganda, and he was a pastor and relatively wealthy by rural Uganda, um, standards.
And he, he is the one that stood before us and he. , you know that first in the Bible, the poor, he didn't say this bit, but the poor you will always have with you. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . And that can feel really overwhelming, can't it? It's just this sense of, well, if we're always gonna have them with us, what's the point?
You know? It can be sort of slightly take away your sense of what? What do I do? He said, So what we decided to do, everyone is always asking. So what we decided to do is to ask God. Who he wanted us to notice, and it was the widow, and they decided, right, we are going to wholeheartedly help the widow, and that is what we are going to do.
And that allows us to channel our energy, our resources, to listen to God. And maybe he'll change that at some point, but I think we all have. A calling on our hearts that actually this is what God has put in front of me to notice.
So are you specifically talking about you and film? No. No.
This was the, The pastor.
This used.
The pastor. Okay.
Thank you. Yeah. So I suppose this goes way to answering our, some of our big question. How do we remember the boys? I suppose everybody can play their part, it's just how they discover. What, what God has given them to, to notice and to to care about. Uh, is, uh, you, you what? So you mentioned for that particular pastor or that particular church, it was widows.
What about yourself?
It's a really good question. I was wetting with this when you asked me to come. So from, An early teenager probably God gave me a heart for Africa very strongly. You know, if you'd have asked me what my dreams of what I was gonna be, it would not have involved marriage and children and any of that rubbish, it would been, I am flying to Africa and I've gonna live in a village and I am going to fight injustice.
And that is, you know, my dream. So don't ask me how I am where I am, um, , but. , that was very much a sort of calling on me and the way you phrased it. So we got some pre notes for this. Um, and the way they had phrased it in the pre notes was, was it a calling or was it, um, where you ended or sort of where directed
you,
Do you feel called to the poor?
Why, how did it happen? Or is it simply a result of a path God took you on?
Yeah, so I had that calling, but now that's not where. You know, so after uni I went and spent some time in Madagascar. Um, we did get the great privilege of being in Uganda and I did my PhD there, um, my PhD field work. Um, but now I'm here and, but it seems that God has led me every step of the way that every job I've taken, even if it hasn't looked like it has been about fighting poverty and injustice.
You know, even now I get to train and equip people who are going out to do mission. Yeah. And part of mission is fighting injustice. So I feel like God has, So it's been a bit of both. It's been a little bit of, um, a calling and a little bit of a, Oh, this is where I am and this is what. This is where God has been putting puzzle pieces together.
Dunno about you then.
So I think from, for me it was probably that, that trip to Ecuador where I was volunteering for a few months, it just made me a realize what was out in the world. I loved being overseas, experiencing different cultures and things, but also. How could I put my practice into action?
Like how could I live out my faith? Um, so it was a really formative experience. And then I went to university, and I actually got involved in the homeless outreach. Activities that they had going on there. So meeting with big issue sellers and guys who were selling the start. So I felt that that was a practical way I could live out my faith in Sheffield.
And also I started looking at jobs I might want to do after leaving university. And, , I landed on an organization called Tier Fund. Um, and so I started, you know, temping with tier fund during holidays and quickly realized. It was the disaster management team where I really wanted to be working.
That was the, the bit that, um, really piqued my interest. Uh, and I was fortunate enough to get a job in the disaster management team. And then I went to work in Sudan in 2003 and then Pakistan after the earthquake in 2005. And, you know, just build up experience. And then, um, in 2012 I started working with the red.
So I guess in terms of the question, um, yeah, again, a bit of both. You know, there's, there's part of me that feels this is where my skills and my gifts are best used. And so part of that is, is kind of cool and, but also, Decisions that you make along the way, Uh, opportunities come up, different jobs and so on.
It's surely a mixture of everything.
Funny story for us is, um, when we went out to Uganda, We absolutely vowed we are not going to set up a charity. Like everybody, every Christian goes out to Uganda and they set up a charity and we were not going to do this. Um, and then where we were, um, it was in the east of Uganda and very, very remote.
So an hour to the nearest to that road. and it was known for witchcraft. The charities just stopped at the border of the district. We were in the, the signs for all the, all the charities, they just stopped. There was nothing in our district. And we were just talking to people and they had all these, you know, talking about aspirational poverty.
They did not have aspirational poverty, . There was this, you know, there is this hope, there's these things we want to do. Um, but there's still these hurdle. In our way and we just thought actually we can do something about that. Mm. Um, so I think God was having a nice little laugh at us there. You know, this, we are not setting up a charity.
And then of course, what do we end up doing? . So what does your charity do? Um, so it's called a little bit of Hope and the idea is to overcome those hurdles that stop people from reaching their full potential. So school feeding programs, , sanitary towels in schools. Um, reusable sanitary towels, um, apprenticeships, education, sanitation, sort of those sorts of projects.
Um, but a little bit of hope, you know, it's actually. , you've got all these things and you just need a little bit of support. And that was kind of the founding principle of it. Um, and it's changed and morphed a lot over the last 11 years. Um, but still sort of, that is the aim. That is the idea.
My question really is for you guys who are clearly called by God, equipped by God, put in positions by God to support the poor, to raise awareness to do these things that make a real difference.
How do you cope with people like me who. Not driven by that. I'm driven by worship on a Sunday morning and all the ordinary stuff that, as Western Christians is really quite comfortable to do. How do you do that?
Well, first serving the PO is an act of worship. So you, you know, you said worshiping God. You know, singing is an act of worship, but.
Helping the poor is one of the biggest acts of worship that we should all be doing. And yes, Ben and I, it's, it's obvious what we do. You know, we are working in international development. I have a PhD in international development. You know, it's useless by the way, ,
most PhDs are in
my experience. Um, but look at Matt, you know, nobody.
He should be here talking, you know, him and Esther are helping some of the most vulnerable children. You know, around they've adopted these two wonderful little girls, and that's not always easy. I imagine that. Mm-hmm. ,
it's, I always find it strange when people say, Oh, you're doing such an amazing thing because for, for me, God's put this on our heart and it's just made us.
Who we are. I'll talk him up about my adoption story another time, I'm sure on another podcast. It kind of just becomes you because that's who God made you, you know? He, he, he made Esther and I to be adopters, you know. And again, before we moved on to the, the next kind of question, I was gonna jump in and say, actually you.
There, there we are huge advocates for adopting and you know, if I had it my way, everyone would, would adopt. And again, our, our way of, of helping the poor is just being an open family. So that when people wanna know more about adoption, they come over for dinner and they, we tell them what it's really like.
How it's really hard and how it's really rewarding and we just explore that with them. Um, and for me, I, I also get to be really, really blessed. I get to be a dad, to two fantastic children who under different circumstances had God not intervened, may not have their forever family. again, it's, it's, it kind of leads on to, to the next question.
How, how do ordinary people within our church remember the poor?
I guess first of all, We always need to pray because the more we pray, the more we hear from God and see with his eyes and you know, that moves us closer and God will put people on our hands that we need to reach out to.
So that would be the second thing is act like we can't act without praying, but we can't pray without acting as well. Um, so how can we, you know, put that into action and, um, identify the ways, uh, that God wants us to, to help people. Um, we can give, you know, both individually, but also corporately, how does the church choose to steward its resources?
How do we individually choose to steward our resources? Where do we put our money? yeah. And then I guess speaking about our experiences and, and sharing life with people, um, making sure this isn't seen. An extra thing that isn't part of church, that isn't part of our daily lives. This should be as, as you've said, you know, core in the gospel.
And it's not just the New Testament, it's not just the gospel. Um, you know, it's Isaiah 58. What does true fasting look like? It looks like, um, you know, setting the oppressed free and looking after orphans and, and vulnerable people. That is what God's heart is like, and, and that is his identity, and therefore it should be our identity.
Yeah, absolutely. So I'm a SWOT and I made notes, um, and pray and act and give were my first ones as well, Ben . Um, and drawing on that verse, you know, you touched on, on it and Jesus did it, you know, fighting injustice where you see it. Mm-hmm. , you know, if God has put on your heart, you know. Actually, I am fed up with this oppression.
You know, I am going to fight injustice in whatever way that looks like. And you know, if you see somebody. Getting abuse because of the color, their skin, you know, stand up for that. You know, what is it that God has put on your hearts to fight? And then my fourth one was actually build relationships with the poor and the marginalized.
Like, we tend to hang out with people that look like us. You know, we, we don't like to think that, but we do. Um, so where can we go? Where can we be, you know? Where can we hang out and build relationships and find out about what does poverty look like for you? Not what I say is poor about you. Yeah. You know, what does it look like?
Um, and I think that can be really hard. I think that's almost easier in other countries than it is here. You know, because actually people are an English mom's home is their castle. You know? How do you start that? And, and some of the way I think is to be vulner. Mm. You know that actually you say you need help.
So then when you offer it to somebody else, they're like, Well, actually, they accepted it when they needed it. So perhaps it's okay for me to, Mm. Um, and you know, it might be that that starts in the church. We have poorer needy in our church. Um, but it, it shouldn't stay there. Mm. You know, we might start in the church, but there is, there is more looking out.
Yeah. I'm
thinking of the, the new, uh, Food with Friends thing that started on, on Tuesday. Like there is a, a huge need within our, within our own church community as well as outside of the, the, the church doors and, and so I suppose it's, it's really trying things like you. Um, Ben and, and Hannah praying, but also being obedient in that because when God speaks that, that, that, that's superb.
God speaks. But actually we've gotta take that first step. We've gotta be obedient. We've gotta trust that actually, if God's gonna put this on our hearts, if this is gonna be where he's gonna use us as a weapon for his justice, we've gotta be willing to say, Yes, God, I trust you. Yeah, this is really scary.
But I'm gonna take that first step because you are good. And I wanna glorify you and you know what's best for me.
I think, um, one of our previous podcasts, Which will be out before this one. We talk about the spiritual disciplines and I think it is a spiritual discipline, I think, to choose to make yourself uncomfortable, to do something that is hard, like a podcast or you know, or going out and serving with the food bank or going out and helping clean the streets of wherever you live, any of those things.
Choosing to do something and giving it to God because of discomfort is a s. And sacrifice. We don't need to sacrifice goats and we don't need to sacrifice cows anymore. We do need to sacrifice ourselves. Yeah. That's what the gospel calls us to do. And I think how we do that has to be, of course, contextual to where you're at.
But as Hannah's just, I think as Hannah's just said, I don't wanna put words into your mouth, but it's really easy to get comfortable and to step outside of your context. That's a. Hard thing to do for people, but to do it is such an important thing and you grow through it,
and I think God honors that as well.
I remember on occasions at university when we were doing the homeless outreach activities, it would be. You know, chucking it down with rain. I think, Oh, I really don't wanna go out today. But then, you know, you make the effort, you go out and it was amazing, you know, really great conversations. Felt really blessed through the experience.
So I, I feel like God always honors when people put themselves out there, you know, step outside of their comfort zone. I feel like God always honors that as well.
And I think something else you touched on there is it's an orientation of the heart. So anyone can. Hmm. You know, actually we can say, Well, I've done my civic duty, You know, I've given some money to charity.
We're actually trying to teach Isaac about giving our, our eight year old at the moment. We're trying to sort of teach him. Um, and he, you know, he gave four pounds of his birthday money to two different charities. Um, but I think it was very much that I'm doing this cuz mommy and daddy want me to at the moment, you know, so we're still working on the orientation of the heart.
But I do think, you know what I said earlier about this being an act of worship and that we. For a, for a reason. We go out of our comfort zone for a reason, because that is what God has called us to do. So I, I think that also goes back to the prayer as one of the first things for God to say, You know, just to say, God, just open my eyes.
What do you want me to see? Yeah, there's, you know, I know there is stuff all around me, but who do you want me to? How and what do you want me to do? Um, and I think that's, that's really significant. The sort of orientation of the heart is really significant cuz otherwise it becomes a burden and it becomes a chore and it doesn't become life giving.
Yeah. Um, so it is this. Framing, it's an act of worship
as well.
One practical thing I find quite helpful, and I don't, you know, don't do this really regularly, but, and I know there's a spiritual aspect to it as well, but fasting, um, as well as the spiritual component practically, like just having that pang of hunger and recognizing that actually around the world at this moment in time, there are millions of people.
Who feel hungry and can't just pick up something. Um, I find that stimulates prayer. That helps focus my mind. , when I do want to pray
how do you cope with that sense of there's so much to do,
I guess, from, So from my perspective, um, Coming back to Hannah's point earlier, you know, what's the thing that you've been asked to do? We can't try and tackle everything. We can't solve everything, But what has God put in front of you for any, you know, amount of time, um, and doing the best that you can with, with what is in front of you?
It's, you know, it does feel overwhelming. I've arrived in various. Disaster context, you know, soon after an earthquake or a typhoon or floods or something. And it feels overwhelming, but you have to start somewhere. You know, what is the situation, uh, what are the priorities? And you start tackling number one and gradually work through and, and things settle down and, you know, take shape, but you can never tackle everything at the same time.
So what does God put in front of you? And. And take it from there. I'd say,
yeah, I, I find that a very hard question. I'm a very deep feeler, so I am very prone to being quite overwhelmed by the pain of others. Um, and that's possibly what's led me this direction. Um, but also something that could lead me to not cope with this direction very well.
um, Yeah, it does go back to that what has God called me to do? And a recognition of your small part in a much larger body of Christ that actually you're not expected. One brick is not a whole house. Yeah. You are one brick. Um, and so there's trusting that you are in a community where you know, other people are doing.
Yeah, that actually, you know, Matt and um, my husband Phil, have both worked around orphans and vulnerable children. Matt has adopted . Phil advocated, you know, actually we're probably not in a position where it would be a good idea for us to be adopters at the moment. , but you guys were mm-hmm. , but we could advocate and we could be passionate about and we can help the, we can encourage the church to support those who are, Yeah.
I think, we could talk in platitudes about leaning on God and it's all, it's all okay, you know, we do it in his strength, but actually there is a real sense of security of being part of the body of Christ and knowing that you are not the whole body. and again, that sort of touches on the not being the, the white savior complex or the, just the God complex in general that I need to solve poverty.
Mm-hmm. , it's like, no, I need to fight injustice where I. And where I have been called to.
I haven't done this on other podcasts, but I'm, I'm gonna do it now for everybody listening. I'm just gonna quickly pray that God would open our eyes and our hearts to where he would have us fight injustice and.
Alleviate poverty within our own, um, spaces. So yeah, God, would you come, uh, even right now, Holy Spirit, would you be placing people and situations and places on our hearts where you would have us step in, where we can give what we can, when we can? And I pray that we would trust you. To see these situations change, to see people, realize just how good you are through the changes in their lives that you make through using us.
Would you do that? In Jesus name I pray. Oh, amen. Amen.
I genuinely, I don't wanna stop the conversation because this is really interesting and I don't feel like we've plumbed the depths of what there is out there. One of the things that's really playing on my mind at the moment is this concept of discipline and choice.. I know through experience and through loss of people I know too, that you can feel so overwhelmed, you procrastinate and you don't do anything at all. That's the same discipline of choice as seeing the thing that you do know God wants you to do and going after that is you have to choose to do something.
You can't do nothing. And I'm just really aware of how blessed we are and God doesn't want us all to work in salo and ashes and put, give everything away to the poor. But he does want us to give everything to him. and I'm just, I just feel it's really important to say to people, you can sponsor a child. Which I know seems like a really small thing to do, but you can sponsor a child or a village abroad.
You can pray for people, you can find things so often. Edward Burer recently we just had a, a, a giving time in the church. Edward Burer and the charity he runs and the stuff he does in Kenya, um, just seems to me there's so much we can do. The least you can do if you're listening to this is when you are going into weight rows or saintsbury, is put food in the food bank.
Give money to pay gas bills and electric bills in the local food bank. I just feel really strongly we have to do something because I don't think it's a negotiable thing. This passage says really clearly the gospel includes the poor.
Guys, thank you so much for joining us. We've, we've really appreciated, uh, your time and your wisdom. Thank you so, so much. And again, we just wanna thank you, um, everybody who's listening to this podcast.