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We are a podcast that aims to provide raw, real conversations about deep topics that concern a Christ-centered lifestyle.
We want to go where no one else wants to go, and we want to showcase conversations and topics that are not easily discussed. We do this by going in depth and providing a well thought and expressed conversation about these topics.
John:
The universe has a governmental structure. So this is going to be deep. This is going to be interesting. So, carrying on from what we've shared in the document, a lot of us believe in this beautiful nirvana oneness, that if we just dissolve our ego, if we just clear our blockages, our trauma, the core shadow wound, etc., if we just do enough goodwill, raise our karma, we're going to get to this nirvana space where we're all just hanging out in a bubble of love. I know the hippie movement had that kind of promise to it, but our journeys, we discovered very different things. We discovered that there is a structure in the demonic realms. You know, Michael, you were talking earlier about the black dog that you once traveled with.
John:
For those that have listened to a lot of the other points here, Michael shares that crazy story where that dog is showing you the underworld and the structures there. A lot of us have had those experiences where the demonic kingdom has a structure to it. We know that even in a more recent interview with the El Salvadorian president, when they busted 70,000 gang members, there was a satanic core at that organization, and these guys were sacrificing children to gain power. So that demonic kingdom needed to be fed with sacrifice. And we know this across many examples. That's just one example coming from a president of a country. So what are some of your experiences with the universe having a governmental structure or not? What, you guys got pause?
Michael:
Yeah, gotta stop there.
John:
Pause for a reflection.
Michael:
Wow.
John:
It's a big one. It's a big one.
Joao:
In my journey, it wasn't like I didn't know it and then I knew it. I actually always had this understanding to some degree because when I did a lot of plant medicine, like even in the plant medicine world, there are different plants and different beings that give you stronger experiences. So there is even a hierarchy of, for example, mushrooms are weaker than DMT, and DMT is weaker than, let's say, five-meo DMT. So even in the realms you would go into, there is a hierarchy of power and potency in it. And so this was recognized in at least the shamanic worldview that I was a part of at the time. But I also had experiences even within that. There was kind of like a dissociation, where actually my core belief was it was a universal sameness, and it's all like a flat thing.
John:
So you kind of had this awareness that there is structure with the different powers of the medicines. I think that's pretty common in the new age world. But ultimately, we're all finding our way home, that you're going to arrive at some oneness.
Joao:
Yeah. That was the belief behind it all. Yeah.
John:
So when did that change for you?
Joao:
I think the main change was really again encountering the Lord Jesus. When I had that radical experience that night, the piercing, blinding power of that light was of such a higher place than anything I'd ever experienced. And my whole being experienced that, and I was like, whoa, this is healing, this is power because it penetrated to my core, whereas the other experiences, they didn't penetrate as deeply into my core. They could heal some layers of my being, some pain, some fragments, some generational things. But I would always feel deep within me that it couldn't access. It's almost like it didn't have the authority, no permission. But when I experienced the light of Christ, it had full permission to access the deepest part of me and bring healing and restoration to that.
John:
Interesting, interesting. This reminds me of when I worked with this Russian psychic for a while in Bali. It was a type of ascended master, very adept with Qi Gong, different things, but also had eleven channels, eleven spirits that he would work through to give him high-level information. A little bit similar to when you're working with that black dog in the astral realm, revealing secrets. This person had eleven channels, and I was training with him, working with him for many months, very closely. We were even going to open a business together called the, was it the Quantum Academy? To help empaths, you know, work with their gifts. And then one day, to no credit of my own, because I can hand on heart say that there was no way that I could have worked this out or seen what I was about to see.
John:
It was almost like a veil got pulled. And I now credit that to the Holy Spirit, and the grace that was with me got pulled back. And I could see that within this guy's spiritual system, he had access to incredible things like golden frequency, angelic, kind of counterfeit angelic power. I could see all this. And ruling over the top of these channels was what I now would describe as a fallen angel of some type, a principality. And it ruled over his spiritual system. And in his model of reality, this particular gentleman, it was all about energy harvesting. It’s all about accruing energy, storing energy, and having that energy be redirected somewhere else. And so for me, when we talk about a governmental structure, the demonic kingdom needs life force.
John:
It needs energy to function just like all of machinery needs it, all of our daily functions. To even have this podcast, we need power. So this kingdom of the dark requires that to run. So that's something I've definitely seen on the darker side of it, and similar to you, Joao, I did have an encounter—maybe I'll share that later—about encountering the Lord Jesus, where every single fiber within my being, if I could use that expression, knew this being rules supreme over all. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/ And I'd never had a feeling like that. And I've seen many things in the many realms, so to say that was something very deep for me. Yeah. So when we talk about structure, authority, what else would we talk about?
Michael:
That on all levels, really, we're always talking about blood sacrifice. There always seems to be a blood sacrifice needed, even on a demonic level. And we know that they sacrifice little kids and they drink the blood, and the scripture says that the life of the soul is in the blood. And that's why they need to drink the little kids' blood, because there's an energy and there's a vibration, there's a frequency in it that gives them a higher power, if you like. So that's a demonic realm. I've just opened up Psalm 82 here, and it’s the first verse or two verses: God presides in the great assembly. I mean, the great assembly is what happens up in the heavenly realms. He presides there. He renders judgment among the gods, small “g,” so small rulers.
Michael:
Yeah, so everything that was created was in and through Christ, even the demonic structures. The apostle Paul talked about powers and principalities that rule and reign, but we have power and authority above that, above the principalities. When we know who we are, when Christ, who comes inside of us, starts to rule and reign, we operate from a much higher level. So we just need to understand that. It talks on, “How long will you defend the unjust?” That's what's happening. We wonder now in the world, why isn't someone sorting these things out, these unjustly things that happened, but because the powers and principalities are still ruling and reigning, defend the unjust and show partiality to the wicked. I mean, we always think, hey, it's really wicked, but they get away with it. What's happening? But the time hasn't come yet.
Michael:
But we need to understand that the day is coming when we will start to rule and reign. The whole earth is crying out, waiting for the true sons of God to rise up, those who are empowered with the truth, to feel that freedom and liberty. And we do see this in the natural world. I mean, we do know, we were talking about this earlier, Joao, that there is a symbiotic relationship, and there’s a lot of concepts and ideas in the new age which are really valid in all levels, that there is this symbiotic, interrelated correlation between things. Yet within that we do see a hierarchy. Within that we do see that the animals are affected by us. What we do, we have authority that affects them, and we do see this. So how do you look at that? How would you guys reconcile that in terms of there is an authority, yet there is this interconnected web?
John:
Because that's the kind of counter belief that everything is just one, and we're all just experiencing ourselves through each other, and we're all just one big bubble of oneness, which on a lot of levels is beautiful because I do like the idea of oneness. But our realities and our journeys have shown that’s nothing necessarily true. There's a—what is it—subjective, our own experience, where there’s that vibrational. But there is this objective governmental structure in the heavenly realms. We clearly see it in the physical realm here with presidents and governors and polices of authority. So it's here. Yeah. Just putting it out there, like, how do we reconcile this? And if there is a God that reigns over it all, why is there so much bad stuff happening? What's going on? How can we trust this? What's the difference?
Michael:
He gave us free choice.
John:
Yeah, yeah.
Hanka:
And I do believe it. The question, Michael, what you asked, how is it possible that they just get away with it? And what came to me was the spiritual blindness. People have a spiritual blindness, including myself in the past, before I encountered Jesus Christ. You know, all this sacrifice, the blood sacrifice, is a daily thing. For example, in Hinduism, you sacrifice the dogs, the animals, almost weekly. I went for a walk up in the mountains in Bali, and I had this guru walking back on barefoot, and I found out that he just went to sacrifice into the pit dogs. And I was like, wow, it just happens daily without even realizing it. And we, as a tourist, we have no idea.
Hanka:
And I felt I was also blinded in the physical realm, even when I was walking in Christ the first years. And I was like, wow, I had no idea about this, that it happens almost every day around me. So what I felt, it's just the powers that people get out of it, drawing out of it. That's why they get away with it still, the spirit is a mask.
John:
We do know in the Bible, Paul talks about that we're in the process of having these principalities and rulers being dismantled. There is a process, the Bible does not hide that in any form. So there is a process occurring. But I guess it's a question of why is it allowed if there is a God of love. And I know we were talking earlier about free will and this spaciousness for this to play out, but boy, you know, it's tough.
Joao:
I think the outplaying is difficult. But one thing that was really striking me was that there seems to be multiple governments, or let's say multiple ecosystems running at the moment. And so, for example, there's this ecosystem of wickedness and this structure of wickedness, but also at the same time, parallel to it, there's a structure of love which is also God's government. Like Michael said earlier, that God sits above the great assembly. So there's also, what John was saying, is this being dethroned? It means that there's a structure that's being dismantled in the world. And now a new government of light and a new government of love is being put in place. But the measuring is different. The measuring is based on love. It's not on raw power and control and subjugation and dominion. It's based on a healthy uplifting of others.
John:
This is the objection a lot of people think about Christianity. It's been abused, patriarchal, in a war. So there's this dark stigma attached to it. But the reality in the gospel is, and you see this paradigm shift with the apostles, with their thinking. The disciples of the time, they're fighting, who's going to be the number one amongst us? There's this grappling, which plays into a governmental structure. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/ It's like, who's going to be the number one within this little hierarchy? And Jesus just flips the narrative on them, which is connected to what you're saying, Joao. He's like, well, if you want to be the first, you're going to be the servant of all.
Michael:
That's right.
John:
Hey, that's a different kingdom, man. It's completely opposite to, we know, with the demonic, where it's all about power and lording over and control and blood sacrifice. We know that. We hear it from presidents. We don't just need to hear from presidents. There's so many examples in that realm. But the kingdom of God is a kingdom of love. It's a kingdom of service. It's a structure based on building up of service. And Christ has flipped that. So you see, the conditioning of the disciples was the natural conditioning of the world.
Michael:
They were Romanized. They had Romanized thinking, you know, a top-pyramid shape. That's what they were thinking, really. The true narrative is the apostles and prophets in the foundation, building everybody else up. A supporting structure. This is the difference. It's a supporting structure, raising others up. I get excited when I see other people. I'm okay, I'm 71, too. I get excited now with a new generation that I see that are raising up with this structure, with this.
John:
And they're going beyond us.
Michael:
They go, yeah.
John:
They're shining beyond us, which is counter to the human ego nature. We don't like seeing, on a humanistic level, we don't like seeing someone shine beyond us because it makes us feel inadequate. I mean, that's the romance. It's the general gravity of this realm. But the kingdom of God says, no, no, if you're doing well, you're actually liberating others.
Michael:
Yeah.
John:
You're building others up.
Michael:
For me, when I see the new generation rising up and shining, I partake in that. I can feed off that. It's just, for me, it's just a different heart structure.
Joao:
So it seems when I'm hearing you guys, just for the listeners, there is a hierarchy, but it's not a traditional hierarchy. It's a hierarchy that the position is granted upon the amount of love that one is willing to give.
John:
And this is what's wild about Christ's descent even into the hell realms. He's taking the key there. We do see a governmental type of dominional occurrence taking place there. Now, personal thing, I don't know if the listeners can relate to this, but we've all witnessed murders, we've all witnessed little children, bad stuff happening, or we've heard these things. This is difficult for our hearts to truly absorb and go, well, hang on. How is this governmental structure benevolent, allowing such things in these dimensions and places either within us, within our shadow, or externally out in the physical world? And for me, when I had—I was lying asleep one night. I've told the story before, and I was just sleeping like any other night. And all of a sudden, I wake up worshiping in my spirit, man. Like, just fully worshiping. Like what?
John:
Automatic. I was asleep, and I feel a presence just near my door of my bedroom. And I've never in my life, in all mystical years and years of experiencing frequencies, blisters, all kinds of things, I've never had an encounter like this, where I feel a presence of a being. And I've experienced many beings. And this being, I know inside my inner man—like something similar you said earlier, Joao—about an inner knowing that's beyond the intellect, an inner conviction that this being, and it was the Lord Jesus, has conquered every single thing in the known universe. And it was a complete conviction in my inner man.
John:
All the dark stuff I've seen, all the things my soul's been scared of, terrified at, all the deepest fears that I've known, all the things where I've looked upon it and gone, what I can't accept, that this being has conquered it through love and through the power that he holds. And to me, that made this topic, this conversation, real. He is supreme. And I know beyond my thoughts in my innermost man because of that revelation. And for those listening, I don't know. We all have different measures of experience of this, but that's real for me. It's real beautiful. Anyway, so it's a deep topic, this. Is there anything anyone else would hunker? What you got?
Hanka:
I would like to actually ask from you about the alien abduction.
John:
Alien abduction. I have done research on this topic, yes.
Hanka:
What did you find out?
John:
It's a very interesting question. Thank you. Didn't see that one coming. So apparently, there's over a million recorded abductions of aliens that have been archived and filed. It's a big phenomenon. And the gentleman who was doing the research at the time, I don't remember his name, but he was someone who was not a Christian, didn't necessarily believe in the spiritual world. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/ But after years of leading up these abduction research, he came to the conclusion that he believed this is interdimensional. It wasn't planetary beings from planet Lala coming with their ships. They were coming from different dimensions. And what he also found in his research was something unusual. He found that there was a body of people, and there's actually a website dedicated to this, and perhaps we can put that in a link or something for the viewers if we can track this down.
John:
Basically, the research showed in his research that there was a group of people that these abductions stopped when they called upon the name of Jesus. And he found this really interesting. Why is it that in these abduction cases where people are on surgery tables, taken to places, all of a sudden, they cry out to the Lord Jesus, and the abductions just cease? And he wrote this in his research reports, and then there were a lot of people that had shared experiences with this. So that was what I saw. So if this is true, what his research suggests is that it is from another dimension. We even had a friend of ours tell us a story about this, where she put on these—she was an NLP master coach, trained under John Richard Bandler, the creator of NLP, for those familiar.
John:
And she put on these special goggles that synthesized the brain's frequencies. It was like a new technology. And she didn't really test them out, she just put them onto a particular frequency setting. And all of a sudden, she was on a table with these gray aliens around her, doing a surgery on her. And she was shocked. She just took the glasses off in shock. She put them on again. She saw it again. And so this stuff's real, and we're talking from memory. Over a million reported cases.
Hanka:
Including me?
John:
Including you. Okay. You went through something.
Michael:
I was abducted by—
Hanka:
Yeah, yeah. And I was in a different dimension, and I went in a place where I was not allowed to go, and they wanted to investigate me. And I didn't give any answers. And suddenly, they started to put me on the table. And before it happened, a melody came through me. And not just a melody, I was singing out loud, "Jesus," out of the blue. And everything shifted. The atmosphere shifted. And they were all over the place. And there was a human being who had the animal eyes, and the animal eyes even shifted into the human being back again. And because what they encountered—the love.
John:
Love conquers all.
Hanka:
Love conquers all.
John:
And God is love.
Hanka:
God is love.
John:
I'm glad that a God of love sits at the authority of this whole thing. I don't understand it. And I'm sure those listening in to this have many questions like we do here. https://www.supernaturalbreakthroughs.com/ You know, I don't want to speak for you guys, but I certainly do. Why this and why that? And my gosh, you know, but at the end of the day, I am convinced that this God we serve, or the God that rules supreme, is a God of love and is giving us this liberty to have our own experiences. And some of these experiences, through free will, are tough. We have to bear the consequences of that, and that's just the way it plays out. Yeah, so thank you, guys. I'm looking at all your faces here. You guys can't see us in the studio, but we're all smiling here.
John:
I think it's just this awareness of the power of the Lord Jesus. It’s come through for each of us at this table many times. What? We've seen that authority take us out of really dark realms and places that we could not get ourselves out of. And we've seen that authority reign supreme. And I'm sure those listening also would have many stories to chime in on this, and we just thank you. We thank you for listening. We hope you got something of value out of this conversation.
Hanka:
Thank you.
Michael:
Blessings.
Hanka:
Blessings.
Michael:
Thank you.
Hanka:
Bye.