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UK and Germany to powerhouses of nations with a lot of, you know, gaming history, good economical foundations, but we don't consider them investable as a company. So we leave them for someone else to invest in. Welcome back to iGaming Daily, by OptiMove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and today I'm joined by SBMC Media's editor-at-large, Ted Mamur. And we're also joined by Betas and CEO Pontus Lindwall as the International Operator reports its Q1 results. Pontus, thanks ever so much for joining us. How are you doing? Yeah, good. Yourself? Yeah, very well. Thank you very well. Just before we dive into things, I'll just have a little rundown of some numbers. So, Revenue, €285.3 million. Decrease of 3%. Casino Revenue, decreased 4%. Sportsbook Revenue, increased 1 % at a margin of 8.4%. And EBITDA, at €50 million. I guess the first question really is how do you reflect on Bettson's overall performance in Q1 against your initial expectations? Yeah, I think it's good. ah We saw a drop down during the second half of last year in the B2B business. It stabilized by the end of the fourth quarter last year. And we see strong growth in our B2C operations, especially in our core markets where we put most of our efforts. So in general, quite good, I would say. And so I guess it's em a bit of a margin squeeze impacting EBITDA and profit. I guess there's lots of factors that go into that, mainly 2026 as a whole, just providing a tough backdrop. But also, guess it must be noted that B2C revenue is strong and growing well. How do you factor all that into your report in this quarter? Yeah, it's exactly... What you indicate the B2C business is performing strongly, but they come with a totally different cost structure. pay a lot of gaming taxes. We invest in marketing. whereas the B2B business, we don't have those costs. And obviously what we saw last year, a little bit of a drop down in the B2B. has an impact on the profitability of the company. But most important right now is that we have seen the B2B business stabilize and from here on we're going to do our best to make it grow again and B2C already on a good growth path. So yeah, that's where we stand. Fantastic. And Ted, let me bring you into the conversation. Is there anything you'd like to put upon this? Yeah, just look. Beyond kind of the financial metrics, your bedsteads, especially at the B2C levels, your KPIs remain strong and stable, product and customer level. And how important is that narrative to tell to market and to tell to the investors, like, yes, this is a transition, but KPIs are strong? That's a very good question in the way that sometimes you may be bit scared as an investor when you see profitability going down. But then again, you need to take temperature of the companies is this healthy or not? That when you see all these positive KPIs on the B2C side, then you realize that this would not be able to, we wouldn't be able to achieve this if our product was not good, if we were making operational mistakes. I think it's very important statement to the investors that we are doing so well on the B2C side. And in terms of the that kind of margin squeeze at the moment. mean, how are you countering that? Is this just a case of revising marketing or specific units? I mean, what's come to the forefront of cost control measures? Yeah, there's obviously certain things you could do, but we have to remember here that what we see is a little bit of a drop down by one of our B2B customers. And we don't believe that we should try to fix that by, you know, taking down, let's say marketing for our core markets on the B2C side. That would short term save us some money and have an impact on the profitability. But we're not here for, only for this quarter, which we're in now, the second quarter. We're here for the long term and we want to continue to build the company. So, we believe that the strategy that we have is serving as well. And we're going to continue on that path with the existing strategy. And that means that we will continue to invest in, in some B2C markets and we will continue to grow the company. Nothing of that has changed. If the company had, you know, a lot of extra costs that we didn't need, then of course this would be a perfect time to address that. But I think we are configured in quite a linear way. So we're going to crank on. Fantastic. I just wanted to reflect on some specific regions, if we may. Latin America is of course a core part of Betson strategy now and revenue was 25 % up that is, and I think now accounts for about a third of group revenue. What are the big opportunities that you see across Latin America and I guess what has underpinned your winning strategy in that region? Yeah, the Latin American market is a little bit, let's say behind Europe on the timeline of develop. That means that it's not as well, you know, penetrated yet by online gaming. So we believe that there's a strong structural growth in many of these markets going forward. ah Obviously we have good positions in a few of these markets. I think we're definitely number one in Argentina. We're well positioned in other markets as well. uh Good brand recognition, technology which has been proven there for quite some time. So we are definitely... optimistic about the future in that region. And in Western Europe, we've talked about some of the macroeconomic headwinds that the industry faces. I would think that Western Europe is sort of the poster boy of some of those challenges. But you've managed double digit growth in Western Europe. think Italy was a core part of that. Could you tell us about how you've sort of been impacted by some of those evolving regulations in Western Europe and how you've managed to grow in the region regardless of that? Yeah. Again, a very good question because Western Europe as a whole is actually a sad story in many ways where we have seen regulatory development, which definitely is working against the ambitions of the regulators to create a regulated and taxable gaming industry. we um At Bettson being quite a big company, are standing more or less outside many of the largest markets in Europe, such as UK and Germany, to powerhouses of nations with a lot of gaming history, good economical foundations, but we don't consider them investable as a company, so we leave them for someone else to invest in. Whereas in Italy, it's a different situation eh and some other markets as well. We see a better climate and there we can invest and keep on growing. Europe as a whole is very saturated and it's not a similar situation in most countries there. a CEO and looking at the overall kind of industry condition, do you have any... kind of timeline or confidence that you can return to, you know, having bets in at all levels of market growth across its geographies, or is that too far of a reach in 2026? Well, that's something that we, you know, obviously is hoping for and in many ways working for as well by trying to communicate to regulators and educate, but But you can see with all the efforts that went into the UK as an example to and still it went in the totally different direction, opposite direction. It's very sad. And just one more region I wanted to ask you about Pontus was central and Eastern Europe. Because that's perhaps the flip side of the story to Latam and Western Europe. What headwinds are you seeing in that region? Actually, we're doing quite well in that region. Most of our, if not all, our B2C markets in that region are performing well, such as Greece and others. um Then we had one B2B partners who has the bulk of their revenues in that territory that kind of has not been as successful and that has an impact. But overall we are quite uh optimistic for that region as such as well. Okay, let's look forward because you know in this quarter you've announced the 65 million euro acquisition of Rhino Entertainment. and you you're acquiring during a difficult period for the industry, but what are your plans for Canada? What's your kind of vision of that market? And it's a market that's proved kind of difficult for other competitors. It's a market which is very competitive and such markets are always difficult for everyone, but obviously some companies succeed there. Uh, we have a business there. Uh, Rhino has a business there and they have, you know, even they are maybe not, uh, one of the biggest operators there have still succeeded in our view in the market. I think, uh, putting those two together can make, uh, give us a good position there. And I guess, again, looking forward, Pontus, all eyes will now be looking towards the World Cup. Obviously, that's going to be a huge part of 2026 trading for sports, but globally, what preparations do you have in place now we're so close to the tournament to ensure that Bettson makes the most of those huge opportunities across your global portfolio of markets? Yeah, there's a lot of preparation we have on the marketing side, of course, certain initiatives in many different markets. uh Technology wise, we have made sure that our sports betting product is in a very good shape. And obviously we will have some kind of uh development stop uh some time period before so that we don't implement new things that would could. carry a risk into the World Cup. So I think we are well prepared. The organization is on its toes really to take an opportunity of this and it will be very interesting. And also as we all know, it's a totally new format with 50 % more teams than the last tournament. So and it's going on for one week more than the last tournament. that gives us good opportunities to capitalize on the games. It gives you an opportunity, of course, as there's more games and more teams. Have been concerned about sort of competitive balance and how that might impact player engagement. Do you have any sort of reflections on how that might work? Yeah, obviously when you add on some new teams that are, you know, ranked as not as good as some of the top teams. Of course, there will be some games initially in the tournament in the first phase that will be, that may be uneven on the paper. And that is something that we are not used to in the same extent as this time. But we believe that, you know, by the second half of the tournament, when it goes into knockout stages, ah It will be fun and interesting. Fantastic. And Ted, I'll just bring you back in again if you want to add anything more for Pontus. Okay. Look, um there's been like a real kind of pressure on kind of these kind of Q1s and just from kind of your leadership perspective, I mean, is it clear that this is a new era for iGaming? I don't see it as a new era, really. Uhhh... It's being in in the, in this industry for, for so long, there, there has always been challenges and headwinds and some markets, you know, shutting down and some other markets making stupid decisions. We're used to that. And, and we have 25 licenses in regulated markets and that's quite a broad and diversified revenue stream. So yeah, I think we're in a good position going forward. And headwinds, if you can't take headwinds, then you shouldn't go into the gaming industry. That's how I see it. But then again, if you like challenges and to navigate them, you're in the right spot. Very true indeed. And just the final question and Pontus really, which is just, how do you tell that story to investors and manage to get that confidence with your investor base just to say, this is a business that can navigate some of those challenges and headwinds that the industry is seeing, not just in Q1, but for the year and beyond? Yeah, I often refer to our history, which is quite long, and I say that If you look back, so many things has happened and investors has been disappointed from time to time when things has happened. Let's say, cool down period in Netherlands and things like that, it came from nowhere. So you need to be prepared when you're investing in this industry. But on the other hand, we have performed really well over time as well and giving huge profits and dividends to the shareholders. I think overall our history has proven that we know how to handle it. Fantastic. Well Pontus, look, we've really enjoyed having you on the show today. Really appreciate you taking the time. So thank you ever so much for Chatting to Dynamically change casino lobbies and bet slips and create engaging gamified experiences. Learn more at UptoMove.com. oh Well, thanks. um Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, with Betson, we've to step back and also look at where this company has come from. And look, they've had some very, very good use outperforming the market. And I think since kind of Pontus came back in 2018, you know, they have been at peak performance. But again, it's just returning to the elements and you can't hide from them. oh this is, and think he quite, he was quite right at pointing out that this is a time of kind of a huge kind of margin squeeze and kind of cost pressures on the business and every part or every component is being rethought and Bettson can't escape that reality. Yeah, for sure. And I know Pontus played it down a little bit, but I think it can't be discounted that there are, huge macroeconomic challenges that the industry is facing. To the point where you did say that actually there are some markets in Western Europe that are just uninvestable, which was an interesting line. I guess it follows on from multiple conversations we've had on the show, but now we're starting to see big global operators report for Q1. How do you sort of weigh up how some of these challenges are actually impacting the industry? I kind want to move away from the challenges because everyone knows the tax pressures and cost controls fine. For me, in my journalistic sense here, is that I'm much more about the reactions and the relationships and more than the status of these companies. And the two that have caught the eye are Flutter and actually now Bitson because they're going from very strong growth profiles to... Okay, I wouldn't say they're stumbling now, but they are slowing down. And also kind of investor sentiment here is that it's much more focused on kind of that beat the bottom line and profitability. And I think that kind of changes the relationship, right? Between the investor side and the actual the reality is we're running an operation, an iGaming business. And I also think that there is kind of frustrations there because you know how hard these guys are working just to maintain kind of high kind of financial growth, but to that get kind of taken away by, you know, taxes and kind of, you know, new course pressures, right? It's very hard to just tell to market that, you know, these are the factors that are kind of, you know, bearing down on you. Yeah, you know, for sure. And I think one other thing that might be sort of touching on those cost pressures is the share of Betson's revenue from locally regulated markets is now 73%. That's the highest it's ever been. Naturally, those markets might come with less profitability than those that aren't locally regulated. So I think that's also something that we should be bearing in mind when we're reporting on Betson. just it's indicative of the way that the industry is going. There are more locally regulated markets now than there were. five, 10 years ago. Yeah. But I think one of the things that Pumper said that was very true was that, okay, you know, there's also a side to kind of investing in this business and that it isn't just always going to be like, you you pitch up your money in a company, it's just going to go up, right? These are going to real terms of like the times are changing for the investor too. And they have to take, they have to also have some stomach for understanding that there's going to be peaks and troughs too. investing in a company and especially in this period, you can't just expect quarter on quarter growth and your share prices just go up systematically. think it's also a case of having a sharper investment base in this industry. Fantastic. Well, Ted, I think that's probably a good place to leave it. Thanks for joining me for our little debrief on the Betson interview. And yeah, thanks to our audience for tuning into today's episode of iGaming Daily and join us throughout the week because em it's SBC Summit Malta week so we might have a few clips here and there from the guys on site. was the only shirt I could wear today. thank you very much to everyone for listening and we'll see you tomorrow on the next episode of iGaming Daily. you