Good Growing

This week on the Good Growing podcast Ken and Chris discuss why we clean up our gardens in the fall. Cutting down perennials, raking leaves, and pulling out spent vegetable plants is a common job for the gardener in the fall. As the autumn days get shorter our time is precious outdoors. What needs to be done now and what can wait until next year?

Watch us on YouTube https://youtu.be/scU_YKv_gFE

Skip to what you want to know:
00:29 Hey Ken! It rained!
02:33 Fall clean up. Why do we do it?
04:38 How does cleaning the vegetable garden break disease cycles?
11:53 Adding amendments to the vegetable garden.
13:55 Using manure in the garden.
16:32 Shifting gears to our yard, should we be mowing shorter for our last mowing of the year?
18:21 What about fall leaves? Should we shred them or leave them on the lawn?
22:30 Do trees and shrubs need water as part of putting the landscape "to bed?"
25:06 Cleaning up our perennial plants in the fall. Deadheading aggressive seed producers.
26:59 Cutting back perennials can wait until spring, at least for the plant's sake. Your situation may be different though!
32:30 Brief tool talk. (preview of next week)

Fall garden clean up with pollinators and other wildlife in mind https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/good-growing/2021-10-22-fall-garden-clean-pollinators-and-other-wildlife-mind

When should I start cleaning up my garden? 
https://extension.illinois.edu/blogs/good-growing/2023-03-02-when-should-i-start-cleaning-my-garden


Contact us! 
Chris Enroth: cenroth@illinois.edu
Ken Johnson: kjohnso@illinois.edu 


Check out the Good Growing Blog: https://go.illinois.edu/goodgrowing
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Any products or companies mentioned during the podcast are in no way a promotion or endorsement of these products or companies.

Barnyard Bash: freesfx.co.uk 

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Creators & Guests

Host
Chris Enroth
University of Illinois Extension Horticulture Educator serving Henderson, Knox, McDonough, and Warren Counties
Host
Ken Johnson
University of Illinois Extension Horticulture Educator serving Calhoun, Cass, Greene, Morgan, and Scott Counties

What is Good Growing?

Talking all things horticulture, ecology, and design.

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:05:17

00:00:05:20 - 00:00:24:09
Speaker 1 - Chris Enroth
Welcome to the Good Growing podcast. I am Chris Enroth, horticulture educator with the University of Illinois Extension. Coming at you from Macomb, Illinois. And we have got a great show for you today, putting the garden to bed, so to speak. I mean, that's at least how I see it. That is the topic of the day. And, you know, I am not doing this by myself.

00:00:24:09 - 00:00:29:19
Speaker 1
I'm joined, as always, every single week by horticulture educator Ken Johnson in Jacksonville again.

00:00:29:19 - 00:00:35:14
Speaker 2 - Ken Johnson
Hello, Chris. It's looking like the weather may finally start cooperating with putting the garden to bed.

00:00:35:16 - 00:01:03:00
Speaker 1
Maybe I maybe so. We we spoke it into being or maybe we we, we like reverse spoke it into being because we last week we said it wasn't going to rain and then with a predicted chance of like 18%, it rained here in McComb, the whole world. Everyone was like shocked, surprised, celebrating. And then it cooled off a little bit.

00:01:03:02 - 00:01:15:10
Speaker 1
But I saw 80 degrees the Saturday. Beautiful, fair weather. I'm sure you're looking ahead because you might be going to that Illinois football game right?

00:01:15:12 - 00:01:18:07
Speaker 2
You're going to be a soccer tournament, so.

00:01:18:09 - 00:01:22:20
Speaker 1
Darn it. Next time, that next.

00:01:22:20 - 00:01:25:05
Speaker 2
Central Michigan game.

00:01:25:13 - 00:01:28:09
Speaker 1
yeah, that'll be fun. So.

00:01:28:11 - 00:01:32:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, we got we got rained on and we even got a little hail in Jacksonville south of us.

00:01:32:07 - 00:01:33:06
Speaker 1
Congratulations!

00:01:33:09 - 00:01:34:19
Speaker 2
Got quite a bit soon.

00:01:34:21 - 00:01:40:21
Speaker 1
Yeah. Stuff falling from the sky. It was really exciting. I haven't seen that for a couple of months.

00:01:40:23 - 00:01:42:06
Speaker 2
Everybody's welcome that.

00:01:42:08 - 00:02:04:13
Speaker 1
Yes. Yep, yep. So because we said it wasn't going to rain, it rained. I also wound up watering my lawn, which I don't normally do, but I was I have bought I bought some really nice turf seed, which I think we talked about last week and but also I just wanted to get some some moisture in the ground because our shrubs are trees.

00:02:04:13 - 00:02:27:21
Speaker 1
Everything just started dropping leaves no fall color just leaves started falling and they're like crispy, you know, So they're they're dried out, they're desiccated. So really, even our our woody plants are big shade trees. Everything was feeling that drought probably use a little bit more rain. But you know what? I'm happy with what we got it.

00:02:28:00 - 00:02:28:24
Speaker 2
Which you can get.

00:02:29:01 - 00:02:49:17
Speaker 1
That's exactly right. Yes. So. Well, Ken, last week we talked about some of those common fall tasks that we can be doing. But one of those sort of big ones is putting, as I call, putting the garden to bed. Do you have another do you call it anything different? That's what I say. I put the garden to bed.

00:02:49:19 - 00:02:54:09
Speaker 2
Yeah, go to bed. Garden. Clean up something along those lines. Yeah.

00:02:55:00 - 00:03:18:16
Speaker 1
okay. Well, so. So that's what we're going to discuss today. And we're going to try to differentiate between our vegetable gardens and our landscape beds. So I guess starting off, though, why, why would we do this is what's the point of cleaning up our our garden beds, garden and landscaped beds this time of year? Why do you do it, Ken?

00:03:18:18 - 00:03:21:04
Speaker 2
As society dictates, we do.

00:03:21:06 - 00:03:26:24
Speaker 1
Yes. Society demands a manicured yard.

00:03:27:01 - 00:03:59:02
Speaker 2
So yes. Now, you mentioned some very vegetables and and landscape beds and stuff. So I mean, for me, vegetables, insect pests, disease and insect management is the main thing that I'm doing that for. And then if I want to plant stuff early in the spring, it's clean up. I don't have to do that. I can just go out and plant with minimal clean up and I have to pull everything out before I can plant ornamental beds that.

00:03:59:03 - 00:03:59:12
Speaker 1
You know.

00:03:59:17 - 00:04:11:21
Speaker 2
In my opinion, you don't really need to do a whole lot. But, you know, it's going to depend on the individual, how clean you want that to be. And then in my view, an ornamental is not as important.

00:04:11:23 - 00:04:33:06
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah, I'm kind of in that same boat where I, I let the ornamental things sort of stay. I like the seeing the seed heads in the winter. Some of those plants will flower until we get our first really hard frost. So I just. I just let it go. Then I, I forget about them. It gets cold and I hide in the indoors for the winter time.

00:04:33:06 - 00:04:59:06
Speaker 1
And then I forget about what happened until I come back out next spring. Like a like a bear. So. Well, let's let's start with our vegetable beds. You talked about disease problems and disease control. So what is the purpose of that? Is there because doesn't the cold just kill? Everything does. Why would we even care if a sick plant stays in the garden over winter?

00:04:59:06 - 00:05:03:15
Speaker 1
I mean, it's dead. The disease is gone, right? That's how it works.

00:05:03:17 - 00:05:37:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. So other diseases, you know, we think about tomatoes, for example. A lot of people grow tomatoes are those foliar disease and sartorially of smart. But with some of the blights and stuff, those pathogens will actually overwinter on plant material. So if you leave that plant material in the in your landscape, in your garden and you've had those diseases, you've got all of that inoculum that the fungus and stuff surviving on that plane material, if you leave it there, it's going to be there come spring and you're going to be a lot more likely to have that because you haven't removed it.

00:05:37:07 - 00:06:03:09
Speaker 2
So many of the diseases that we have issues with in our gardens will overwinter on that plant material. Same thing with insects. Sometimes those insects overwinter on there are things like squash bugs will over winter and debris. So cleaning up that debris, getting out those overwintering areas for insects, the the play materials that those diseases are surviving on, we can remove that, reduce that inoculum reduce the chances of having those diseases.

00:06:03:15 - 00:06:10:08
Speaker 2
There's probably going to be there, but there's not going to be as much there to potentially infect your plants that following year

00:06:10:08 - 00:06:32:20
Speaker 1
And someone had just had asked me this question. It was a phone call that I had gotten and they said, well, my peppers had what they thought was bacterial blight. There was no lab test really confirmed this. So I don't know if that's what it actually was. And they also didn't send me any photographs. So, you know, I said there's a lot of things that can look like bacterial blight.

00:06:32:20 - 00:06:53:16
Speaker 1
There's a lot of diseases out. There's also a lot of environmental things that can also happen to our plants that could mimic the signs of disease. But I said, let's assume that you have bacterial blight. And they said, Well, what can I spray now? Now, being the first week of October? I said, Well, really, I don't think I'd invest much money in spraying your peppers for bacterial blight.

00:06:53:21 - 00:07:20:08
Speaker 1
Usually the thing we recommend, whether it's in the end of the season, the middle or the beginning, if you have a infected plant with that, you pull it out, you remove it, you, as we say, roll it out and you get rid of that. You take it offsite so that Inoculum is not there for next year. The next question, though, was because I had said, well, this disease can also persist in the soil, not for very long.

00:07:20:08 - 00:07:38:09
Speaker 1
I think it can persist. I read up to about two years, has to have certain debris and things like that. There's there's these other factors that allow it to persist, but it can be in your soil. And he said, well, what can I spray my soil with? So that is a that's a pretty it's a pretty simple question.

00:07:38:09 - 00:08:07:19
Speaker 1
There's nothing you can really spray your soil with to rid it of bacterial blight. But there is the other side of the coin. We're like commercial growers, farmers, ornamental plant producers will actually not not spray their soil to sterilize it, but they'll pasteurize it. A lot of times they'll use steam treatments. If you you could use fumigant, but you would need a serious pesticide license for that because human genes are very toxic.

00:08:07:21 - 00:08:31:01
Speaker 1
You really need to know what you're doing in that regard. I don't know if Illinois Department of State gives out as many fumigation licenses these days anymore anyway, So there are things that can be done. But for most backyard gardeners, you're not going to invest thousands of dollars in a steam sterile, a steam pasteurized ocean machine. But I've seen it done.

00:08:31:01 - 00:08:57:02
Speaker 1
It is pretty cool the way they do that. But I would say, yeah, we can't really spray our soil to get rid of these organisms. One, if you would do something like that, it would more sterilize your soil as what people would do with like 20 mule team borax and they're trying to fight creepy Charlie that that mixture actually sterilizes the soil which makes it inhospitable to anything even your plants that you want to grow.

00:08:57:04 - 00:09:14:21
Speaker 1
So that's why we don't recommend using 20 multi borax on stuff. So essentially saying long way about I told them to do crop rotation so every three year crop rotation for that would be would work.

00:09:14:23 - 00:09:36:08
Speaker 2
Yeah that and when you're pulling the plants to trying to get as much of that root system out as you can is going to be important to you. So if there are any pathogens that can survive on those roots, you get those. And the other thing was a methyl bromide. Was this kind of the fumigant of choice and it's no longer available and you would still have to have a an applicators license in order to get that or buy that.

00:09:36:08 - 00:10:02:15
Speaker 1
So that methyl bromide, that was the one when I was in ag school, that was the one where the stories of that particular chemical are are pretty gruesome, that it's very dangerous. Lots of mistakes have happened in the past with that one. That's why we don't really use that anymore. Grain fumigation. I don't know if that's really much of a thing, but that's a different world than I operate in.

00:10:02:17 - 00:10:04:15
Speaker 2
And I don't operate there either.

00:10:04:15 - 00:10:13:15
Speaker 1
So yeah. So I can tell you, I'm sure some would say, yeah, we do it all the time for this or that. Like, well, I don't know, horticulture. Not so often.

00:10:13:17 - 00:10:33:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, in fact, kind of like conventional herbs. But even if you've got like fruit trees cleaning those up, so if you've got apples, for example, you've got some of those fruit rafts and things like that on there, those apples drop to the ground, even though you have insects in there. Don't just leave the apples because you know that that fungus and stuff is living in.

00:10:33:18 - 00:10:52:24
Speaker 2
And on the apples, those mummies and stuff, they're hanging in the trees. You won't remove all of that stuff. Get that out of your landscape so you don't have that Inoculum That's going to be spreading the following year. Same thing with the leaves. Clean those up, bag them, shred them, get get them out of there. So again, you don't have that inoculum to reinfect your plants the following year.

00:10:52:24 - 00:11:04:10
Speaker 2
So, you know, vegetable garden fruit plants try to get as much of that cleaned up as you can, try to lessen some potential problems. You're going to have that following year.

00:11:04:12 - 00:11:39:02
Speaker 1
And you did hear Ken Wright, folks, he did say mummies, fruit, mummies. So mummified fruit, that is where the fruit essentially has become infected that year. And but it it stays attached to that tree with the expectation that when that fungus. Fungus, fungus. Oof, sir, I like that one. But fungus, fungus comes out of dormancy next year, reawakens and re infects the the developing fruit or leaves of that tree.

00:11:39:02 - 00:11:44:03
Speaker 1
So mummified fruit, you heard it correctly, fruit, mummies.

00:11:44:05 - 00:11:53:12
Speaker 2
And if you've only got a couple of trees, it won't take long to clean all that up. You know, commercial level there, you know, they've got acres and acres of plants there cleaning all that stuff up. So.

00:11:53:12 - 00:12:16:21
Speaker 1
Well, we talk about diseases. But the other reason that we would want to clean up our vegetable garden is because maybe we want to to add something to the soil. Maybe we need to adjust something, whether that's adding something like a compost manures. If we have done a soil test and we see maybe are just a little bit off, we wanted to add some type of either a lime or a sulfur to adjust that.

00:12:16:23 - 00:12:40:00
Speaker 1
And when you have a a bed free of the vegetable debris that makes that that process much easier to do. So that's another reason why we would want to have a cleaner bed. In addition to that insect and disease control is is also if you want to add anything to it just is easier that way.

00:12:40:02 - 00:13:05:08
Speaker 2
Being with that, the the adjustment of soil was a good time because that can take some time for that to actually work. For those that break down and out of the chemical processes taking place, that can take several months to happen. So doing that in the fall gives you some time for that adjustment to start that those levels Peter was raising or lowering and whatever you're doing gives that some time to actually happen before you're starting to plant again.

00:13:05:10 - 00:13:29:15
Speaker 1
That's right. And most of the time when I'm recommending people to adjust their vegetable garden is because that for years they have added wood ash to their vegetable garden, which is alkaline. Just this summer I think I saw a soil test. The patch was something in the upper eights, you know. So that's very alkaline. That's not very common in Illinois at least.

00:13:29:17 - 00:13:47:01
Speaker 1
And so that would be a time where do you want to acidify your soil? Because our most of our vegetable plants, like a slightly acidic soil. So we would bring it down with a little bit of sulfur. But as Ken said, these things take time to adjust themselves, just as it took them years to bump up their age with wood ash.

00:13:47:03 - 00:13:55:06
Speaker 1
It will take you years to kind of readjust that soil back down to a more proper level for most vegetable plants.

00:13:55:06 - 00:14:07:02
Speaker 2
another thing you could amend with and may or may not be a good idea for putting manure down, Those are not composted. You have to have was it 120, 90.

00:14:07:02 - 00:14:08:03
Speaker 1
Days and 20 days.

00:14:08:05 - 00:14:28:19
Speaker 2
Or 20 days between putting that down before you can harvest stuff is going to be in contact with that. So, you know, if you if you are going to be using manures and if you're using manure, that hasn't been broken down at all. So you're introducing probably weed seeds and stuff like that. So you do that with with some caution and know what you're getting yourself into if you're doing this.

00:14:28:21 - 00:14:45:10
Speaker 2
But doing that in the fall, if you are going to do it, will give you that time for that too. So you have that interval that you need to reduce any chances of of disease that are going to affect humans coming into contact with the with the stuff you're harvesting.

00:14:45:12 - 00:15:05:08
Speaker 1
Yeah. And allow that product to break down so that it doesn't tie up a terrible amount of nitrogen The next year. Yeah. If you're using manures almost always our recommendation is is is incorporate that in the fall and so then it's ready next spring.

00:15:05:10 - 00:15:07:17
Speaker 2
No use dog and cat regardless.

00:15:07:19 - 00:15:15:18
Speaker 1
Yeah. Do not know meat eaters please. That includes us humans.

00:15:15:20 - 00:15:25:20
Speaker 2
I would say manure is probably will and that's like next level learning. If you've given it a whole lot of gardening, I wouldn't jump into the manure.

00:15:25:22 - 00:15:27:01
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00:15:27:03 - 00:15:27:20
Speaker 2
Amendments.

00:15:27:22 - 00:16:03:00
Speaker 1
Yeah I feel like it. It is something that we always talk about. Like we always throw manure is in there because, well, frankly, a lot of people used to also have livestock in some way or form. And so that was always like an amendment for the garden. Though most people aren't farmers, most people don't have livestock anymore. So I think manure that when we talk about that as amendments kind of a holdover from from the past, but even those who do raise livestock, they are looking for places to offload some of their manures.

00:16:03:02 - 00:16:30:02
Speaker 1
But I'm I'm in the same camp is Ken where I'm like, yeah, use them with caution. We have weed seeds. There are certain herbicides that can carry through even the digestion process of that animal. So just be cautious with them. Kind of know your source if you are going to use manure and you're going to get weed seeds, that's pretty much a guarantee.

00:16:30:04 - 00:16:31:19
Speaker 2
You've been warned.

00:16:31:21 - 00:16:32:05
Speaker 1
Yep.

00:16:32:05 - 00:17:05:06
Speaker 1
Well, we've talked about gardens, but what about our landscape? That's, you know, you've heard both Ken and I say, well, we don't really do much about our landscape heads in the fall, but let's start with our lawns. How about that? Because that is something where I do pay a little bit more attention to in the fall, and it is the recommendation that often comes at the beginning and the end of the mowing season, and that is do we cut our lawns shorter for the final mowing of the year?

00:17:05:08 - 00:17:36:04
Speaker 1
And I often recommend it depends on the cut height that you normally have. If you're mowing your lawn at a height of like four or five inches, then it might be recommended to bump that down a little bit to three or two inches. And that's only because that when you get taller grass like that, especially with snow cover or some of the debris that can fall on lawns over the winter, you can get something like snow mold.

00:17:36:06 - 00:17:56:21
Speaker 1
So the shorter lawn, it doesn't really map on top of itself that much. But I often just say when in doubt, just leave your mowing height wherever it is. If you've never had issues with small snow mold in your lawn, probably don't need to worry much about it until you see it and then you can worry about it.

00:17:56:23 - 00:18:12:11
Speaker 1
But yeah, I don't adjust my mowing height any lower or taller or anything any time of the year. So it stays at three and a half inches is what my cut height is and I don't, I don't deviate.

00:18:12:13 - 00:18:19:02
Speaker 2
Yeah, ours is whatever the highest setting is on one where I've never measured but it's as high as it will go on the lawn.

00:18:19:03 - 00:18:47:08
Speaker 1
You know, and we just stick with that. So I guess and then the thing that I pay a lot of attention to is leaves. So there is is definitely a movement of folks saying, leave the leaves be one of my favorite things that I like. I've read recently on social media something along the lines of, you know, the the leaves that follow the ground are not going to break into your house and drink all your wine.

00:18:47:10 - 00:19:15:11
Speaker 1
They're just going to sit on the ground and decompose and something like that. Yeah, that's true. That's very true. But I do not want the leaves to suffocate and smother my turf grass. So I do. But I do mow them. I shred them, and I either filter those shredded leaves back to the lawn to add organic matter back to the soil or I will take those leaves to some of my other landscape beds and I will use those as mulch elsewhere.

00:19:15:13 - 00:19:36:05
Speaker 1
But I do get them off the lawn and and I know they're also you're probably screaming at me. People are saying, well, who cares about your lawn? Just kill it. I'm like, Well, yeah, I do kill a lot of lawn. Every year, more and more of my lawn gets killed, but those then get put in as pollinator gardens, shrub beds, landscape beds, trees, other things.

00:19:36:05 - 00:19:57:06
Speaker 1
So I still have to have a lawn. And so and if I smother my lawn, well then I have to spend more money and resources, energy on rebuilding that lawn every single year. So I'm going to take care of my lawn properly, and I'm going to also make sure that I have space for insects and all those other things to to overwinter.

00:19:57:06 - 00:20:12:20
Speaker 1
So, yes, I do shred leaves. I also rake other leaves into landscape beds. I use other leaves as mulch and there's places where I will leave the leaves be so we can have our cake and eat it too.

00:20:12:22 - 00:20:36:16
Speaker 2
That if I do something similar so for our yard, I usually rake or blow the leaves into a pile kind of in the corner. That's where we put them because so we've got a couple of walnut trees that are neighbors or that overhang ours. So those values break down pretty quick. They're not too much of a concern, but we do have a couple maple trees that if we don't do something that will smother the grass, we get that cleaned up.

00:20:36:16 - 00:20:59:16
Speaker 2
And then, you know, everybody around me rakes their leaves and bags them. So we drive around the neighborhood, take everybody's bags, shred them because they're they're going to the Jackson will burn them or I don't know what they do with them. Those are going to be disposed of anyway. So I shred those and use those as molten storm and bags so I can use them in the spring.

00:20:59:18 - 00:21:09:09
Speaker 2
So use some of the fall saver for the spring. And then that's my husband, my for for majority of our landscape beds. Now you should leaves.

00:21:09:09 - 00:21:40:04
Speaker 1
And a lot of those overwintering insects they can bed down in those shredded leaves a lot of birds and things will also forage in those shredded leaves. And so now we do hear you. If you're telling us that leaves protect insects, we get it. But I also want to encourage folks that, you know, use utilize those leaves. Yeah, I hope Jacksonville doesn't burn their leaves because, boy, that's awful, especially if you have asthma or something.

00:21:40:06 - 00:21:44:05
Speaker 1
But I yeah, use those leaves are packed full of energy. Use them somehow.

00:21:44:05 - 00:22:04:09
Speaker 2
Safer for landscape beds if it really is hanging in there I just leave them. Becomes a bit of a nightmare in the spring when I go to clean it out because sometimes we have six eight inches of matter down leaves in some spots and it takes a lot of work to get cleaned up. But just leave me.

00:22:04:11 - 00:22:25:17
Speaker 1
A I think a great idea for future episode is going to be soft landings under trees. That's where we can get more into the the leaves leave the leaves thing, have plants under your trees, more about more about those insects. So we should talk about soft landings. One of these days, though, we'll put a little pin in that one.

00:22:25:22 - 00:22:27:11
Speaker 2
But on a long list.

00:22:27:13 - 00:22:48:24
Speaker 1
Yes, on the list. Well, can we got some rain? I felt the need to water my trees, so I did. And then it rained. So. But what about watering some of our woody plants? Is that something that we would also need to do in order to put the landscape to bed?

00:22:49:01 - 00:23:06:04
Speaker 2
Yes, Especially a year like this, where it's been dry in a lot of the states in drought or close to it, and providing that water in an inch or two of water a week. I think we talk about last week too, especially if like those are needled evergreens are evergreen plants because they're going to be transpiring throughout the year.

00:23:06:07 - 00:23:38:03
Speaker 2
It's kind of reduced some, but they're still using water. Even our woody plants are deciduous plants. They're still going to need water throughout this throughout the winter. They'll be taking up water until the ground freezes and stuff. So making sure there's adequate water supply there so we don't have damage to those plants because they're going into the end of the winter and dry like situations just and they'll make them hardier, better able to survive winter conditions, especially if we had a really cold polar vortex stuff like that.

00:23:38:05 - 00:24:04:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. Something where they cannot access any of that water in the soil at all, then they will at least be off on a better foot route, whatever you want to call it for when that hard winter weather does come into play. I mean, I hope it does. It'd be nice to have a good winter. I know we're probably in the minority for the most part of of one in that, but that's why we grow our beards.

00:24:04:08 - 00:24:27:02
Speaker 2
Yes. And then, and soils that have more moisture and then can retain were heat so they don't get in there. It's not like they're going get super cold, but they'll retain more of that heat if if it's really dry, that cold can penetrate deeper into that soil. Especially you think about like potted plants, you've got parts you're leaving out and you've got perennials in there.

00:24:27:04 - 00:24:39:15
Speaker 2
Ideally, you're you're you're putting perennials in that they can handle. Those are one or two colder than where at, where those are dry that that coldness can get in there a lot easier, that the moisture will retain some heat as well.

00:24:39:17 - 00:25:06:20
Speaker 1
And even as as water freezes, it releases heat. That's why orchards will sprinkle well, they'll ear they'll do an overhead sprinkler on their trees. If there's a frost coming, they'll the water there can of tree canopies, because as that water freezes it releases heat or and then it it it gives it it just barely enough just enough to keep the blossom from being killed.

00:25:06:22 - 00:25:31:19
Speaker 1
Well, can I as we said, we don't do much clean up in the landscape. I guess there might be a few things where I, I say, well, I know this particular plant spreads pretty prolifically by seeds, so I might deadhead it. I might take the seed head off of it just because I don't want to be pulling up its babies all over the place.

00:25:31:21 - 00:25:59:15
Speaker 1
Very often I'm lucky enough that I have this, but I'll take those seed heads and I'll I'll put them in kind of a out of the way area where it's okay if they seeds sprout. But not everybody has that. So I guess, you know, sometimes I will take my job highly and I'll, I'll take some of the seed heads off of their I do have my zig-zag golden rod that I also will deadhead because that really likes to spread as well.

00:25:59:17 - 00:26:21:10
Speaker 1
So there's a few that I will clean up, but for the most part I don't I don't touch much for the fall. And you wrote like two very good articles about this, about how we can, how we can clean up our landscapes, but also with the insects in mind that can use some of these hollow stems and things for overwintering habitats.

00:26:21:10 - 00:26:29:01
Speaker 1
So maybe, I guess expound on that on this. Share your knowledge of these articles.

00:26:29:03 - 00:26:50:10
Speaker 2
Yes. And share it with, I think the the deadheading and stuff. So yeah, this weekend we spent some time taking out blazing star seed heads because we started with like ten or 15 plants and we have 100 plants in a small area because that a thousand. So we used to leave them a week. We cut them out just because they were getting out of control.

00:26:50:10 - 00:27:13:08
Speaker 2
And, and some of our goldenrod too, we kind of see that. So we don't end up everywhere any more than we already have, or it's spread. I mean, when it comes to cutting back perennials. So. So this time of year, again, you don't really need to unless you're trying to even manage for seeds or something like that more when we're doing this really won't do more.

00:27:13:11 - 00:27:31:23
Speaker 2
Most of our clean up in the spring, ideally when soil temperatures have warmed, they might when you would plant your tomatoes mid-May timeframe. By then soils have warmed up those insects utilizing that that habitat of overwinter, they've overwinter by then more than likely have emerged. So that's what we really want to do. A lot of our cleanup in the spring.

00:27:31:23 - 00:27:59:22
Speaker 2
And if we're cutting back our perennials, those flower stocks typically, typically we're cutting we want to leave 12 to 18 inches of those flower stocks behind, closed or hollow. And in a lot of our cavity nesting bees will may utilize those. So things like small carpenter bees, if it's a really big mason because leafcutter bees, a lot of our types of bees and some wasp will utilize those, those flower stalks to build their nests and stuff.

00:27:59:22 - 00:28:26:19
Speaker 2
And then the wilderness and then those stocks, they will overwinter in that in the following spring. They're, they're emerging. So you'll even have stuff for, for over a year those stocks so they can use I use it in the spring over winter come out the following spring. So if you are cutting back stuff now leaving 12 Deanie leaving those flower sucks 12 to 18 inches tall so they can utilize those and usually with your foliage is going to be up above that anyway.

00:28:27:00 - 00:28:42:06
Speaker 2
So it looks maybe slightly kind of unsightly in the spring to some people. There's those plants start to grow, the foliage is going to cover it and you're not really going to notice it much. I think like on flowers or stuff like that, those plants like a much bigger and that's all the 18 inches.

00:28:42:06 - 00:29:06:03
Speaker 1
So I yeah, I don't really worry about the stems and the stalks I have on occasion moved a couple pieces of like we have a table that we moved into our house once, it was a plywood table, it was in our garage. We set up like a train. We have a like a 1960s train set. That was my dad's and we set that up.

00:29:06:05 - 00:29:29:14
Speaker 1
And about a week later we had all of these small carpenter bees start to emerge in our house. So that was a little bit of a surprise. I felt really bad, like, no, what are we going to do? It's the middle of winter. There's not much that we can do. So yeah, they will find nesting spots in these different areas and use this the debris to to lay eggs and to overwinter.

00:29:29:16 - 00:29:48:03
Speaker 1
Most of the time when I find something like hostas, stuff like that, those will usually turn into mush. I don't really have to do much next spring with them. If there is any residue still there, maybe I'll like pull it up with my fingers or something. But yeah, there's not much that I really have to do. Very often.

00:29:48:05 - 00:30:06:07
Speaker 1
Next, the next spring I will take like a leaf rake and I'll just sort of sift everything up a little bit, kind of mess it up a little bit. Kind of like tossing, tossing your hair a little, you know, and just kind of get some of those debris is sifted down into the mulch layer. So, yeah, I leave a lot of it standing.

00:30:06:09 - 00:30:27:01
Speaker 1
The other thing that it helps is that I can see where I might have planted something next year, especially some of our milkweeds and asters and things that emerge a little bit later in the season. That next spring I could be like, Is that a weed? no, wait, that's the milkweed stem right there. I know that I shouldn't be messing around right there.

00:30:27:01 - 00:30:33:16
Speaker 1
So there's some benefit to that, that knowing where plants are located.

00:30:33:18 - 00:31:01:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. And if you've got disease issues or something like that, then you probably want to clean up, you know, fairly. When we're talking a lot about native plants breathing like roses or something, maybe a little black spot or something on there. And if you've got your roses have gone really crazy. But these are really long canes if you want to cut those back a little bit so they're not wind whipping causing damage, but you don't want to put them back too far because more than likely we're going to get some winter kill.

00:31:01:05 - 00:31:24:22
Speaker 2
Yeah, let me find out where the you know, how far down is killed and then turn that off. So there there is some stuff you can do. But I do think a lot of it's going to depend on on the esthetic got going for if you got a more formal type of garden, you're probably doing a little more cleanup then if you're sounds like us really don't really care as much.

00:31:24:24 - 00:31:49:00
Speaker 1
It's our job to to not care about plants, right? yeah. And yeah, we can break some of those disease cycles kind of. I mean, we all live close to other people. So when we talk about, like trying to break the disease cycle of something like apple scab on your crab apple. Yeah, you can collect those leaves and get rid of them, make them burn them, shredded them, whatever, mow them up.

00:31:49:02 - 00:32:13:17
Speaker 1
But your neighbor next door, two houses down, probably also has a crab apple. Maybe it has apple scab. They might not be doing anything about it, but Inoculum blows on over in the wind next year. You got it again. Or cedar apple rust is another one where the Inoculum lives on a completely different host plant. So it there's all these things that we can do to help break these disease cycles and cleaning up the garden.

00:32:13:19 - 00:32:18:20
Speaker 1
But it can be difficult when you live in more of a densely populated area.

00:32:18:22 - 00:32:22:24
Speaker 2
Yes, but you can sleep easily in a house knowing that you're not the cause of it.

00:32:23:01 - 00:32:23:22
Speaker 1
That's right.

00:32:23:22 - 00:32:28:06
Speaker 2
That's right. You're less of a cause in another.

00:32:28:08 - 00:32:46:18
Speaker 1
I like that. Well, can I mean, to do all this work? I guess we need tools, don't we? We need to take care of our tools, after all. So, the book. What would you say about our tools as we get ready for winter? What should we be thinking about with those?

00:32:46:20 - 00:33:05:00
Speaker 2
So hopefully you're doing this throughout the year, but probably the last time you used the tools, you're not going to be they're not planning on using them any more for the year. You are going to be doing a really good cleaning, make sure get all the soil, sap, whatever other gunk, maybe like on those metal parts of your pruners and shovels, things like that.

00:33:05:02 - 00:33:32:01
Speaker 2
Clean it off, you know, stiff wire brush. And if you've got any rust, take some steel wool or sandpaper, get that rust off of there. And then treating it with some kind of rust and have it earth, you know, seem like there would be 40 people putting sand in a bucket and mixing in motor oil with and tipping those tools in there, wiping enough just to have something that's going to inhibit that rust from forming on those tools.

00:33:32:03 - 00:33:42:04
Speaker 2
And you could sharpen it when you're done or you need something to do during the winter, sharpen your tools, get them ready for the following year.

00:33:42:06 - 00:34:06:20
Speaker 1
So when I did landscaping, we were not allowed to put a dirty tool away. And so that really got me in the habit of like, All right, I'm done using the shovel. I usually will take like a old paint scraper or something and I'll clean everything off. And I we had Richard Henschel on the show and he said, well, I, I scrape it off and then I use an old burlap sack to kind of scrub it up because burlap is very coarse.

00:34:06:22 - 00:34:23:00
Speaker 1
And so that's what I do now, is following Richard and Richard's footsteps here. So yeah, so I've got an old burlap potato sack that I use after I scrape off the dirt and I just kind of wipe it down. So, yeah.

00:34:23:02 - 00:34:31:12
Speaker 2
I'm, I'm better than I used to be, but I'm still not very good about cleaning up when I'm done. I mean, well, your New Year's resolution for next year.

00:34:31:14 - 00:34:51:19
Speaker 1
There you go. And I will add for all of the hard work that I put in on keeping my tools clean, my garden tools clean, where they're supposed to be and all that. My kids come in and told like I have found my shovel sitting in the woods in the backyard and like, how long has this been out here?

00:34:51:21 - 00:35:10:10
Speaker 1
Like probably been like a month or so that they just took it out there and just left it. So you can't recover from that, folks. I'm just just saying that it was covered in rust when I found it handle. The wooden handle was soaked and in water. And it was it was a mess. But we brought it back.

00:35:10:12 - 00:35:15:20
Speaker 1
And I think that's what we're going to talk more about next week, right when we talk about our garden tools, hopefully. Yeah.

00:35:15:22 - 00:35:22:00
Speaker 2
And you do a deep dive on caring for them and you know, the lawnmowers and stuff too, if you want.

00:35:22:03 - 00:35:27:19
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah. How to save your stuff from your kids. Yeah. Can you get.

00:35:27:21 - 00:35:31:00
Speaker 2
A little bit of a good answer for that?

00:35:31:02 - 00:35:31:22
Speaker 1
They break everything.

00:35:31:24 - 00:35:33:09
Speaker 2
Like my garage or the shed.

00:35:33:13 - 00:35:58:24
Speaker 1
Yeah. man. Tools and furniture. Watch out. Yeah. Worse than cats. goodness. Well, that was a lot of great information about putting the garden to bed and things. Other things that we can be doing this fall. And then I guess. Yeah, we'll we'll dive into tools next week. Well, the Good Growing podcast is a production of University of Illinois Extension, edited this week by me, Kristin Roth.

00:35:59:01 - 00:36:09:22
Speaker 1
Hey, Ken, Thanks for being here. Chat with me, Sharon, about how we put our landscapes to bed and trying to give some folks some tips and advice.

00:36:09:24 - 00:36:13:18
Speaker 2
Yes Thank you. It's winter will be here before we know it.

00:36:13:20 - 00:36:17:10
Speaker 1
Hopefully winter is coming. Yes.

00:36:17:12 - 00:36:19:16
Speaker 2
Let's do this again next week.

00:36:19:18 - 00:36:27:23
Speaker 1
The whole we shall do this again next week. As we said, we'll probably be diving deep in to getting our tools ready for the winter time.

00:36:27:23 - 00:36:35:17
Speaker 1
Well, listeners, thank you for doing what you do best, and that is listening. Or if you're watching us on YouTube, watching and as always, keep on growing.

00:36:35:17 - 00:36:45:15

00:36:47:09 - 00:36:52:05
Speaker 1
Well, yeah. Wow. Wow, man. Can't talk.