Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Hot Dish delves into the most pressing issues facing rural America. Hosts Heidi and Joel Heitkamp speak with policymakers, advocates and everyday Americans living across rural America about what's happening across the heartland and what should be done to make life better for rural America.ct's The Hot Dish, former U.S. Senator Heidi Heitkamp serves up insight into issues affecting rural Americans.
Heidi Heitkamp: Welcome back to The Hot Dish Comfort Food for Rural America, and Happy New Year. I hope everyone listening had a nice break in the New Year's. Joel, how are you feeling?
Joel Heitkamp: I'm feeling great. My first New Year's resolution, I've already broke, so why not get it done first, right? I got to tell you, I'm happy to be here and excited for the new year. You know what, the presidential election and the renewal of the Farm Bill on the table, 2024 [00:00:30] is a big year for us in Rural America.
Heidi Heitkamp: Well, it's election year, obviously, but every election year is a chance to talk about Rural America, with people who otherwise may not care about Rural America, now all of a sudden they think, "Oh, it'd be nice if I got a few votes out of that part of the country." And so it's our chance to advance some great ideas for policy. It's our chance to talk about what's actually happening in Rural America that's optimistic and kind of a path forward [00:01:00] for growth. But an election year is a good year for us in Rural America because people finally pay attention.
Joel Heitkamp: Well, and it's a good time to show them what matters, which is all the issues, the food on their table and the people that are producing much of what they're using. And I think we do a poor job of that in Rural America, and that's one thing we can do through The Hot Dish. We can get out there. We can show people what we're about, who we are, and really why we're no different than they are. We [00:01:30] just make our money at a different way.
Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah, I mean, in part, they have an image of Rural America. One of my goals has really been to dispel it, that the only thing that happens in Rural America is agriculture. We have a huge emerging and revitalized solid manufacturing interest, and we've seen that in our country where Bobcat grew out of winter, North Dakota, Bobcats or skid-steer loaders. So let's not just get pigeonholed into, it's all about wheat [00:02:00] crop and soybeans and corn and rice and beans or whatever it is that our producer grows. But there's a lot going on, a lot of innovation, a lot of thinking about that next generation of opportunities in Rural America that we can talk about in 2024.
Joel Heitkamp: And I would add this, it's a place where everybody's welcome. In 2024 there's going to be people coming. They're going to come around, they're going to want to vote, they're going to want to shake hands, all of that, but get past that. For the people listening to [00:02:30] The Hot Dish, I don't care what you're coming for. It might be hunting, might be fishing, might be, whatever. Those are just my interests. But come on out to the rural area. It isn't just something that we talk about. It's something that we live.
Heidi Heitkamp: We're talking with one of the most important leaders we have representing Rural America's interest in Washington DC and that is our 2023, let's have a drum roll, [00:03:00] One Country Project, rural champion, award winner, Senator Jon Tester. How could you not give that award to the only real farmer in the whole group of United States senators? Those of you who know Jon, he's famous for his flat top. He is famous for his videos on the work that he's doing on the farm, but mainly he is famous for his straight talking, no-nonsense approach to becoming [00:03:30] a United States Senator and serving as United States Senator.
But I'm going to tell you, Jon, by way of introduction, something that maybe people don't appreciate about you and that is your advocacy for veterans. Or some people say veterans, we in North Dakota say veterans. You have been the go-to source. You have been the voice. And obviously Montanan's care a lot about the people in Montana and a lot of them are veterans. But I think it just represents [00:04:00] for me your commitment to honoring your word. The word that we give to the men and women who defend our freedom. It's a rural value that you bring and you remind people every day of those values, especially through your advocacy for veterans.
Jon Tester: Thank you. So I don't know where to start or where to end. First of all, thank you for the One Country Project World Champion Award. I appreciate that a ton. And I will tell you that as I travel around the [00:04:30] country, I continually talk about my friends that are no longer in the United States Senate, one Heidi Heitkamp, one Claire McCaskill, and one Joe Donnelly for sure. And I just want to tell you that things change and times change, but the truth is the country is not richer by not having you three in the United States Senate. I'll just tell you that. The work that you guys did, you talk about my work, but the truth is the work that you guys did was incredible. And I wish you were still here, but you're not. And now you're doing good work out in the private sector [00:05:00] making a difference, and I appreciate that Heidi.
Heidi Heitkamp: Well, thanks, Jon.
Jon Tester: As somebody that is still serving in the Senate and still trying to do things, we need folks like you out there talking about Rural America and how important the policies we pass, how important it's for them to work in Rural America. So I just want to thank you there.
Heidi Heitkamp: So often people ask, what's the difference between Republican foreign policy and Democratic foreign policy, and I've been thinking about it a lot lately, and I think the work that [00:05:30] we did in the Senate, and you really represent this value. We had a Secretary of Agriculture who said, "Get big or get out." That's not what we think is good farm policy. If you grew up in a small town that relied on a guy coming to town and buying a part here and there, or going to the drug store or using the local implement dealership, you know that it's the small farmers that keep that operation going. So when [00:06:00] you look at get big or get out, John, you've been advancing a lot of great policies like the ability for farmers to fix their own equipment without voiding warranties. Can you talk about kind of where you see that get big or get out versus let's support the producers who are out there making communities work.
Jon Tester: So I think what we've seen with the folks when the secretary said, get big or get out, I think we saw a lot of folks get bigger, and we saw a lot of folks get out, for a [00:06:30] number of reasons, for pricing reasons and other reasons. And what we've seen the result of that is Rural America is severely diminished. And so I couldn't agree with you more. I think it's bad policy and I think it's an inaccurate policy, too. And I think the land grant colleges are really important in this overall scheme of things because if they can teach people how to farm without having to have 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50,000 acres of land, that's good.
I mean, my wife and I, for a good many years supported two families on 1,140 acres of land. And we did that because [00:07:00] we maximized that ability on that farm. We raised hogs, we raised cows, we cut up some beef. For a while I taught school. For a while I did crop adjusting. You just did what you could do to make a few extra dollars to make things work. So you got to have a farm bill that works for those small producers. And if you don't have a farm bill that works for those small producers, they're going to go broke. Or if you have a farm bill that skews it for the big guys so they can pull in 3, 4, 5, 6, 700,000 bucks a year, not over 10, but a year, that skews it, too.
So we need to make [00:07:30] sure that we have a farm bill that works. And by the way, it's one of the things that you worked on, I worked on, and they're working on right now, because I just talked to Stabenow about this, who's the chair of the Ag Committee, is the Young Farmer program to make sure that people who want to get back involved in agriculture have the opportunity to do that because it's such a high cost business to be in. But the truth is that I think you nailed it when you said it's a big difference in the parties, get big or get out, versus let's make Rural America all it can be. [00:08:00] Then policies from Washington DC make a difference as to whether people are going to be able to afford to stay in agriculture and support their family and continue to support Rural America.
Joel Heitkamp: Well, Senator, I follow you on, well, I'm just going to say Twitter. I don't care much for the X thing, but I see you butchering on there, and they just want to put in my order for half of a half if that's okay.
John Tester: Man. I'll tell you.
Joel Heitkamp: Is that a deal?
Jon Tester: I wish I could. We're going to screw around here in Washington DC. We're [00:08:30] working on a supplemental and I want to get that supplemental done for Ukraine and for Israel and for Indo-Pacific and for the southern border and all the above, but they're going to screw around here. It's cutting into my meat cutting times, you know what I mean?
Joel Heitkamp: Well, you're good at it. I follow it. I know a little something about it myself. I have to say this, my radio show goes well into Montana, into the eastern part of Montana, which is one of the more conservative parts of Montana.
John Tester: It is.
Joel Heitkamp: But they like you. They like you. I don't know [00:09:00] where that changes from like you to more of them vote for you, but no matter what, they like you. And so as you go about what could be one of the toughest races that you have, this is going to be so doggone close. 100 of those could make a difference.
Jon Tester: Well, there's no doubt about that. I've always had close races, and you're right, we appreciate every vote we can get from everybody out there. I think that this race isn't going to be a heck of a lot different than the other three I've had, and that they're going to try to make me into something that I'm not and run [00:09:30] against that person. The other thing that was interesting, and I've said this on a show two, is that the people I run against, they want to be me for God's sakes. I mean, they want to wear Carhartts coats and they want to put on Elks clean gloves and all that stuff. The truth is that if you're a lawyer or if you're a realtor, or if you're a doctor, I mean, be that person. I mean, that's not a bad thing. And I'll be a farmer and everybody will be happy.
Joel Heitkamp: There's a lot of truth to that. I mean, these guys don't have a marker [00:10:00] on the Carhartts. I mean, if they got a little cattle blood on there, the first thing they do is run to town and buy another one. I mean, you're pretty right about that.
Jon Tester: And I'm going to tell you, and I think it's the same thing with North Dakota, but Montana can see the BS factor. I don't know if I can say bullshit or not on this show, but the truth is they know it when they see it. And so you might as well be real 'cause that's what people expect you to be.
Joel Heitkamp: Yeah. Senator, when you look at the rural area, you talked about less people in it. There's more [00:10:30] expense to it as you know. And one of the things I know that you've prided yourself on is being able to succeed from a rural area, and that means broadband, that means water, that means roads. I mean, how do we keep getting better when it comes to that in the rural areas?
Jon Tester: Well, look, I think there's so many pieces of this puzzle, Joel. I mean, I think part of it is we've got to have competition to marketplace on the input side and on the product side, on the commodity side, on the food side, [00:11:00] and the businesses overall is really, really way too consolidated for capitalism to work like it needs to work. And so we've got to work on that. I think it was 1921, 1922, they passed the Packers and Stockyards Act because the meat-packing industry was too consolidated. 100 years later, we're more consolidated today than we were when they passed the Packers and Stockyards Act. And you can say the same thing about the grains. It's just getting way too consolidated. You see the same thing about the inputs. We watch Bayer by RoundUp, I mean, [00:11:30] are you kidding me? Bayer Company by RoundUp, the company, that's just more consolidation, that's less competition. That doesn't give farmers a break to be able to make capitalism work.
And now we're talking about something like Right to Repair where we have computers on these new tractors where you have a perfectly good tractor and you get a glitch in a computer and it won't work. And that ain't right either because they come out and when you're living out in the rural, just like I'm 50 miles away from the nearest dealer, so it's a 100-mile round trip. Hell, that alone costs several hundred dollars. [00:12:00] And then you got the mechanic to pay for the time that they're on the road. And it's all because there's a glitch in a computer. They plug the computer in, they release the code, your tractor works fine. That's a good way to put the little guy out of business, I'm just telling you.
And so we've got a lot of things to do in the corporate landscape of agriculture in our markets, in our inputs and in our equipment to make it so people can continue to stay in business by doing some of the things they always did to fix equipment, to be able to continue to do that. And I'll [00:12:30] never figure out why the big equipment manufacturers think it's a good idea to drive people out of business and have fewer and fewer farmers. It just doesn't make any sense to me.
Joel Heitkamp: Well, and what I would add with you on that is, there's a lot of people buying acres of land that aren't, they don't even want to be a rancher or farmer.
Jon Tester: It's true.
Joel Heitkamp: And I don't know how you fix that, Senator.
Jon Tester: Yeah, well, we're doing some stuff with China, Russia, North Korea and Iran. But the truth is there's a lot of folks that are buying land to... but like you say, they've [00:13:00] really got no connection to the land. It's an investment to them. And I don't think you build communities that way either, to be honest with you. But look, real estate has always been pretty darn secure. And I get it, if you've got a lot of money and you've already bought your place in wherever it is, Southern California and downtown Manhattan and all that, you're looking for other places to buy land. And they're buying that kind of land in Montana.
And the upshot of that is a lot of our best fishing holes and hunting spots are now locked off because [00:13:30] an out-of-stater owns them, and they don't understand Montana values or rural values, I should say, in this particular case. And I will tell you that that's unfortunate, but it's tough to stop because willing buyer, willing seller, that's how this country's always worked. And if we start saying, "No, that person can't buy your land," then I'd be at the front of the line screaming, too. You know what I mean?
Heidi Heitkamp: Well, me too. But I gave a talk, Jon, to the Sugar beet growers in the Red River Valley. They're celebrating 50 years of value- [00:14:00] added co-op ingenuity and giving themselves a rightful pat on the back. And I had a chance to say, "What do I see as emerging threats?" Land ownership is the single, in my opinion, the single biggest threat to Rural America and the values that we have and what I told them... And because hard to come up with the solution that doesn't interfere with private property rights. You should be able to sell your land to whoever, your highest bidder.
But I said, "You really need to start having a conversation [00:14:30] within families," families who still value that rural tradition. And what's happening in many places in our neck of the woods is that the families, grandpa and grandma gave it to the kids, and that was your sibling that was farming. Now it's not the kids who own it anymore, it's the grandkids. And it may be a second generation, or maybe you're leasing that land to a neighbor or a cousin, but all of these interests are getting so fractionalized, [00:15:00] they're getting so unmanageable. And what happens when the managing partner, which isn't even a farmer, starts telling people how to produce or what they need to do, or isn't worried about soil conservation because they don't feel any attachment to it. And I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that when I look up and see 20 years into the future, we're going to wonder, was there ever a time when we could fix this problem?
Jon Tester: Well, I don't disagree with you. And the time to fix [00:15:30] it is now. You know, we've got a farmland bill to prevent folks that are connected with the Chinese Communist Party from buying land in the U.S., and we're getting pushback, Speaker of the House pushback. We had it on the National Defense Authorization Act because food security is Homeland Security, is national security, and the Speaker of the House says, "No, we don't want that on here." So now what we got... I mean, why? Because he believes anybody that wants to buy the land can. I think if you're connected with Putin or you're connected with the Chinese Communist Party or North Korea or Iran, [00:16:00] you forfeited that privilege to buy land in this country. They wouldn't allow us to buy land in their country, I'll tell you that. And the reason is is because we need to make sure our national security and our food security is held sacred.
Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah.
Joel Heitkamp: Senator, what's it like when you, just being the type of person you are, when you get out of DC and you land in Montana and you get in that pickup that's half dented up. How good does that feel?
Jon Tester: Oh, my God. Well, [00:16:30] it almost makes me feel like I'm Heidi Heitkamp with pants on. You know what I mean?
Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah. We have to explain that joke.
Jon Tester: I guess I might have to. I'll let Heidi explain it after I get done. Look, when I get to the farm, that's a special place for me. My grandfather, his dad homesteaded in the Red River Valley and my grandfather farmed there. And then that same group that you were talking to who may have had some maybe farming in my great-grandfather's homestead, who knows, it's not in the family anymore. [00:17:00] And then he moved to North Central Montana. And I will tell you why he stopped where he stopped, I don't know. But we've been there for about 120 years. So it's been good. 150 and something like that.
But the bottom line is when I get out and the air's better there, I actually can get work done and look back and say, "You accomplished something." Oftentimes that goes on for months here in Washington, DC, and it's home. Man. I mean, it's home. So it always feels good when I get off the airplane and I get to drive home, when I pull in the yard and I'm home. So it's good. As far as being Heidi [00:17:30] Heitkamp with pants, when Heidi was running, somebody told her she looked like John Tester in a dress.
Heidi Heitkamp: No, that I talked like John Tester, only in a dress.
Jon Tester: Okay, talk. All right.
Heidi Heitkamp: Okay, I'm going to tell the real story. So I got up and I gave a speech and this guy comes running at me and he goes, "Do you know who you are?" And I kind of like, "Well how do you answer that question? Yes, on a good day I do." I said, "Yeah." He goes, "No, no, no. You know what I mean?" And I went, "No." And he went, "You're Jon Tester in a skirt." [00:18:00] I think he was a fan. At least I took it that way, Tester.
John Tester: No, that's, Heidi, that's one of the highest compliments you'll ever get.
Joel Heitkamp: Speaking as your baby brother, I didn't know you owned a skirt.
Heidi Heitkamp: Jon, I've been to your farm.
Jon Tester: Yes, you have.
Heidi Heitkamp: And a lot of people have, and I think you've brought out some city slickers, people who work in Washington DC trying to make public policy, out to the farm. And [00:18:30] I don't think for all the kinds of trips that people take, whether it's to a ball game in some Yankee Stadium or wherever it is, the mountains to go skiing or whatever it is, I don't think there's more memorable place that you can bring people that number one, gives them a sense of who you are, but also gives them a sense of why it is so important that we save and fight for Rural America. It's all right there on your farm. It's all right there.
Jon Tester: Well, I would tell you, [00:19:00] a little town down the road is called Big Sandy. It's where I went to school. It's where my kids were born, actually. Well, my son was born, I guess my daughter was born, I had her. But at any rate, it's been the town. I mean, everybody knows everybody. Hell, most people are related enough you go back a few marriages. But it breaks my heart when I go into that town, drive into the town. And when I was growing up, we had two hardware stores. Now we got nothing. We had three grocery stores, we got one. We had five bars. Now we're down to [00:19:30] two, maybe three on a good day. And we need an injection of good news and an injection of jobs and an injection of things that'll help that economy grow. It's one of the reasons I've fought so hard for broadband in the infrastructure packages because I think if we can get Rural America wired up with broadband, it will give people an opportunity to live in Rural America and do business there or do business somewhere else and still live in Rural America.
So we'll see. There's hope on the horizon. But the bottom line is really for the last 60, 70 [00:20:00] years, we've been heading in the wrong direction in rural areas as far as population goes. And I think this country is strong when it has a strong middle class. And it's also strong when it has strong family farm agriculture and strong public school systems. And I just really believe in that up and down the line.
Heidi Heitkamp: And people may listen to this and say, "Well, it's just get big or get out. It's inevitable." It doesn't have to be inevitable.
Jon Tester: Doesn't have to be.
Heidi Heitkamp: Nothing in this country is inevitable if we apply leadership and resources and [00:20:30] trust the people who live there to basically build it back and build it back better.
Jon Tester: 100% correct, Heidi. 100% correct.
Joel Heitkamp: Just one technical question, Senator, and I'm really curious about this 'cause we saw it here in my backyard. COVID actually helped some of the rural areas with what you and others accomplished, and Heidi making sure that we had good broadband in these rural areas, there was a lot of people that found out they can work from home, work in some [00:21:00] of these rural areas.
Jon Tester: Oh, there's no doubt about it. And there's more opportunity that we're just scratching the surface, quite frankly. But every time I fly home, if I get stuck next to somebody, they're telling me about opportunities that have come about because of broadband. I think that there is incredible opportunity when you can talk to people and broadband allows you to talk to anybody in the world at any moment in time. And that brings around opportunity for people to live in areas that they normally wouldn't be able to live in.
And look, I will tell you, if you're interested in watching [00:21:30] pro baseball games, Big Sandy ain't the place you want to live, okay? But if you're interested in going out and getting yourself an antelope in the fall during hunting season, Big Sandy's the place you want to live, if you know what I mean. So it's not for everybody, but I do think that... look, I couldn't live in a big city all the time. It'd drive me crazy. And a lot of people can't live in Rural America to drive them crazy, but for a vast majority of people in between, it's opportunity. And we need to continue to work on [00:22:00] giving people opportunity.
Heidi Heitkamp: Well, John, I just want you to know that the podcast is open to you anytime. We hope that some of the policymakers that listen to us across the country hear some words of hope, but also some great ideas like the work that you're doing, whether it's antitrust, whether it is the Right to Repair, whether it is kind of nibbling away, and then taking the big policy moves to figure out how we can get smaller producers successful financially on the farm. And [00:22:30] a lot of that is conservation. A lot of that is growing specialty crops that need to be protected in this farm bill. And so-
Jon Tester: That's right.
Heidi Heitkamp: There's a reason why, not just because of how you look, I have to say that there's a reason why you got the Champion of Rural America support from the One Country Project. And so thank you so much, John, for coming on. I look forward to maybe coming over to Montana in 2024 because if it helps, I'll come. If it hurts, I'll stay away.
Jon Tester: No, [00:23:00] no, you're always welcome. Joel you're always welcome, too. And I will tell you that I'm incredibly flattered by the Rural Champion Award. I appreciate it very, very much. It means a lot, especially coming from the One Country Project. So thank you.
Joel Heitkamp: Well, one last thing, Senator, you take those guys that want to be you that come from outside the state and want to run against you, they're going to be on the same stage with you sometimes, so don't take any shit from anybody, okay?
Jon Tester: I don't plan on that, [00:23:30] that's for sure. But it's a crazy damn world we live in. I just got to tell you.
Joel Heitkamp: You bet it is.
Jon Tester: But it's still the greatest country that's ever existed on Earth, and we shouldn't take that for granted. At any moment in time that can change. And it's one of the reasons... I mean, right now I'm dealing with a thing called a supplemental for Ukraine and Israel and Indochina and the Southern border. The folks I serve with here, got to get real, man. If we don't get that supplemental out, I'm telling you sure as I'm sitting [00:24:00] here, the world order will change and we will not be the beneficiaries of that change. So we got to do some stuff.
Heidi Heitkamp: Yeah, Jon, not to belabor the point, but I spent one week in May in Ukraine and another week in September in Ukraine, and if they would just meet... I'm not talking about Zelensky, man of great courage, great leadership skills, but the people we met with were the soldiers who were coming on and off the front, the people who were fighting for their country, [00:24:30] the women who had lost their grandparents, and were still trying to keep civil society going. I have never met braver people. And to suggest that we should not support these people in fighting back against the greatest tyranny in the history of my lifetime is mind bogglingly stupid to me. I can't believe that people would not be helping you every step of the way to get the resources to Ukrainians to fight this fight that they're fighting [00:25:00] for all of Western civilization, in my opinion.
Jon Tester: Well, I'll tell you, I've been in that region, too. I've been in Poland, Latvia, and Lithuania, and I'll tell you, I've never seen people that were more hungry for democracy. And if we as a nation can't lead and can't support that, what the hell have we become? Truly what have we become? It's pretty crazy.
Heidi Heitkamp: And your friend and my friend, I keep thinking, John McCain, if there was one thing that's happening right now, John [00:25:30] McCain's flipping in his grave thinking that we would not stand with Ukraine.
Jon Tester: And it's time to quit making excuses, and it's time to get them the damn money.
Heidi Heitkamp: Amen. I'm with you. Hang in there.
Jon Tester: We'll do it. We'll do it.
Heidi Heitkamp: We'll talk to you later, Jon.
Joel Heitkamp: Be well, Jon.
Heidi Heitkamp: Take care, you guys.
Joel Heitkamp: Well, folks, thanks for joining us here on The Hot Dish. That's our show. Anytime I get a chance to hang out with Heidi Heitkamp and Jon Tester, it's a good day. It's a really good day. One of them cheats at pinochle and the [00:26:00] other doesn't. You go ahead and figure out which one it is. Thanks for joining us, and hope to see you a lot in 2024. To learn more about the work of the One Country Project, visit onecountryproject.com. And if you like The Hot Dish, write us a review on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Heidi Heitkamp: And to support the important work that One Country Project is doing to elevate the needs of Rural America in Washington, please visit [00:26:30] onecountryproject.com/give. Thank you so much.