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STARTS AT 10PM ET: Join me for an important discussion with attorney Tom Renz.
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Seth Holehouse is a TV personality, YouTuber, podcaster, and patriot who became a household name in 2020 after his video exposing election fraud was tweeted, shared, uploaded, and pinned by President Donald Trump — reaching hundreds of millions worldwide.
Titled The Plot to Steal America, the video was created with a mission to warn Americans about the communist threat to our nation—a mission that’s been at the forefront of Seth’s life for nearly two decades.
After 10 years behind the scenes at The Epoch Times, launching his own show was the logical next step. Since its debut, Seth’s show “Man in America” has garnered 1M+ viewers on a monthly basis as his commitment to bring hope to patriots and to fight communism and socialism grows daily. His guests have included Peter Navarro, Kash Patel, Senator Wendy Rogers, General Michael Flynn, and General Robert Spalding.
He is also a regular speaker at the “ReAwaken America Tour” alongside Eric Trump, Mike Lindell, Gen. Flynn.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Man in America. I'm your host, Seth Hullhouse. So the war that we're currently participating in is a war across multiple multiple vectors. It's a war in our food supply. It's a war in our currency, but a big part of it is actually lawfare.
Seth Holehouse:It's a legal war. And so someone that's been on the front lines of the battle of lawfare is attorney Tom Rinz, who's a good friend of mine. And so he'll be joining us today, just take a bigger picture look. And he's a fascinating person to talk to because he's a deep thinker, and you can see that with him. And so we're going to look at the bigger picture of what happens with the election.
Seth Holehouse:What comes next? Will there be a civil war push? Will that backfire against the deep state? It's just gonna be a very deep and soul stirring discussion that I think will be really helpful to have as we're going into this period of absolute crazy. So folks, please enjoy the interview with attorney Tom Rens.
Seth Holehouse:Mister Tom Rens, it is always an honor and a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you so much for being here with us today.
Tom Renz:It's it's my pleasure. Seth, you do such amazing work, and and I'm honored to have kinda yeah. We met pretty early on in your podcast career, and I I've been honored to call you a friend through that. I mean, now you're a big shot. Everybody on the planet knows you.
Seth Holehouse:No. I wouldn't say that, but I I appreciate those kind words. So there's a lot going on right now. You know, you're someone that is on the front lines of the the lawfare aspect of this war as as an attorney, and as someone that is is really fighting for truth at all costs. And, you know, one thing that I'd love to get your perspective on, and so, you know, I I like bringing guests on that I think are are focused and have a specialty, but they're also very broad minded and can and can zoom out that hundred thousand foot view.
Seth Holehouse:And as we were talking about, you know, before we started recording, looking at the election this year, looking at kind of, you know, war gaming, how it could all play out. Because if you go back to 2020, in hindsight, we can see perfectly what they were doing. And you could see that, you know, because they had control of the media, they had control of so many different aspects of the public narrative, they were able to get away with what they've done. But that was also where there was this you could call it an illusion that maybe Biden would bring something better than Trump. Whereas now, if anyone still buys into that illusion, they're they're you know, that maybe they're they're missing some brain cells.
Seth Holehouse:I mean, even people I think that were ardent, you know, hardcore Biden supporters are now questioning things, and thinking, gosh, maybe we should get Trump back in here, because at least I could afford groceries And so as we head into this election, especially looking at the the recent trial, and the guilty verdicts, and whatever the sentencing may may be, how do you see the election playing out? I mean, do you think they'll be able to steal the election? Do you think they think they're gonna be able to get away with it? Or, I guess, where, you know, where are your thoughts overall with it?
Tom Renz:Well, I think we're gonna see a Trump victory. I don't think it's for a lack of effort from the other side. So I would distinguish us versus them as not so much patriots versus Democrats or Republicans versus Democrats. I would I would say that this is people who believe in freedom versus people who do not. And those that do not are typically they've shifted.
Tom Renz:You know? It used to be that you'd have a dictator here or something like that. But what we now have is we have a group of corporate oligarchs, people who who are so wealthy and so powerful and so connected that they've transcended really even being citizens of any one country. Their corporate empires span the globe. Their corporations are worth more than the GDP of many countries in this world.
Tom Renz:And their personal wealth is more than most of countries in this world. And yeah, as has been the case throughout history, when a human is given power, you know, power corrupts and absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. And these people have have demonstrated that again. And so they're really pushing to preserve their wealth and power structure on a permanent scale.
Tom Renz:That's why I think we see so many things happening with people who are influencing politicians in this country then. So The Us versus them is kind of the globalist, and the globalist certainly own the Democrat party. I mean, they control it entirely. They're trying to control the Republican party. They failed because Republican party is, obviously, ideologically unaligned, the base is absolutely unaligned.
Tom Renz:But but they're trying. And so they've made some inroads. There are some corrupt Republicans. But across the boards, you know, we definitely have to have to support the GOP over the Democrats. I think that when we look at the way this will manifest in the presidential election is this trial, the the Alvin Bragg judge Merchant just it's not really even a trial.
Tom Renz:The this this show that they put on was so manifestly corrupt and unjust that I think that this really may have been the point, the turning point that cemented the possibility of stealing another election. I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of the false flag events coming up out of desperation. Who knows what they may do? But I yeah. They're certainly going to try and steal it.
Tom Renz:We know there's millions and millions of illegals on voter rolls around the country. They're gonna try and do the same thing. They're gonna backfill ballots through through, you know, a delayed vote counts and things like that. But I just think that at this point, it's gonna be impossible to steal this election without it being so manifestly obvious that it would cause civil unrest on such a level that it would be not worth it. So I think now they're moving to if Donald Trump wins, which looks almost inevitable, how do we control that and limit his ability to destroy the plans that we have in place?
Tom Renz:And I think that's where this is going.
Seth Holehouse:So you think that they've almost come to this conclusion internally that it's gonna be really tough for us to not stop him from winning. So how can we then almost not necessarily allow him in, but accept the fact the will of the people does, even with all the corruption and control over the voting and everything, that the will of the people still, if it's powerful enough, it can change their systems. It can override their criminal systems so that they're looking at, okay. How do we minimize the damage of him being in? Now you mentioned the civil unrest, and this is one of the questions I have.
Seth Holehouse:I'd love to hear your thoughts on. You you look at the recent civil war movie that came out. Right? I think it was I didn't see it. I I probably will watch it eventually, but it's about a I think it's like a three term president that refuses to leave office and ends up being assassinated because, you know, a lot of folks are saying that that president in the film is is really kind of representative of Donald Trump.
Seth Holehouse:So they're they're fueling this narrative of civil unrest and potentially a civil war, even looking at the Obama movie that came out recently, they got all, you know, all kinds of people talking about that where there was, you know, really civil war as well. And do you think though that that's what they would want? That it's almost that, you know, kinda like a know, say you're a little kid, and you build this, you know, sand castle. And it's like, you can't play with it, no one else can play with it. So if you can't play with it, you're gonna destroy it.
Seth Holehouse:So that do you think that that's also part of this? Is that if they can't successfully put Biden back in office or whoever it's gonna be, that they'd rather just see America completely laid to waste through civil war, you know, attacks from, you know, Southern border, you know, terrorists and troops, etcetera? I mean, how do you how do you respond to that?
Tom Renz:Well, I think it's a tough question. And one of the realities is is I think that we're pop quite possibly the most dangerous period in American history since our founding, even more so than the civil war. At the civil war, at least we knew what we were fighting, and it was truly internal. At this point, you know, you gotta recognize we've had over a million military age men cross the southern border from China and Iran. These guys aren't people who are our friends.
Tom Renz:We know we have verified terrorist training camps up and running in this country that the FBI is aware of and will do nothing because they're too busy targeting Catholic mega. We have all these different things. So there is a reality. We know that George Soros has funded the protest. I mean, he funded all these protests in the colleges.
Tom Renz:Right? We know that we see funding from all of these different groups out there going to create disruption and chaos. The problem, I think, is, though, it goes to kind of a philosophical concept. Right. So tyranny.
Tom Renz:If you look at let's take North Korea right now. Right. So North Korea being the most brutal dictatorship on the planet right now, ran by some four foot tall, little fat bellied dictator. Right? Is he really that powerful?
Tom Renz:And the answer is no. No, I could beat him up in a heartbeat. If I get in a fight with the guy, I'd kick his butt. He wouldn't even know what hit him. But here's the problem.
Tom Renz:Tyranny has never in the history of mankind actually been because someone is a great warrior or a strong man or a strong fighter? Tyranny has always been about illusion. Right? The illusion of control. And you've got to understand the illusion of control, I think, is probably best demonstrated in Tiananmen Square.
Tom Renz:So if we look, remember Tiananmen Square, China, you know, you see the one guy standing out there in front of the tank. Now, China, a nation of billions. One man had the courage to stand up and say no. Now, that man ended up getting ran over by the tank. But I would suggest this.
Tom Renz:Right? I would suggest this. What if all the people watching suddenly had the courage to go out there and do what he did? What if the nation rose? Do you really think that those dictators running that country, the Communist Party, could have maintained control?
Tom Renz:The answer is no. See, law is always a manifestation of the will of the people for whom it's created. If we, the people, refuse to obey it, it's meaningless. The only real law that is immutable comes from God. So any law that we put on paper is only as good as the people willing to follow it.
Tom Renz:Now, here's the thing, though. When we look at historical revolution, what is that? And this goes back to our revolution in this country. So revolution comes when a law becomes so manifestly unjust that the people for whom it is designed to govern refuse to accept it. When those people rise up and are willing to stand unto death, up to the point of death, if the man in Tiananmen Square had been followed by millions of others willing to die like he was, that would have been a different outcome.
Tom Renz:If Kim Jong Un had enough people in North Korea say no, well, I mean, who's he gonna govern? If the people stand together and say no, guess what? You got no one to govern. You you're the dictator of no one. So this is really the point.
Tom Renz:And so what happens is and this really applies to our current time in America. And I'm gonna tie this in. When the law becomes so oppressive, and our declaration of independence alludes to this, that a man must throw out the shackles of tyranny and remake a government, that's when a revolution occurs. So the people who are trying to control us, the one thing that you've got to understand is they don't want the global power structure disrupted because they're living the good life. Right?
Tom Renz:If there's a revolution, if there's a civil war, if there's that kind of a thing occurring, they lose their ability to do anything because you just got a big mess. So I don't think that they I think they'll push as far on that as they can. But I do not think that they will actually go all the way. At some point in this game of chicken, I think they back down. So because they have more to lose.
Tom Renz:Right? These guys don't want to they're not willing to die for anything. They have no cause that they care about. This is more money and power for them. For us, for we, the people who are willing to die on this hill.
Tom Renz:And I will die on the hill of freedom. Make no mistake. I have no intention of ever violating the law. I have no intention of ever being anything but peaceful. And I would tell anybody else to do the same.
Tom Renz:But if I had to die on the hill for freedom, I would do so happily because my children deserve that. So we have something to fight for. All they're fighting for is to preserve and protect what they have out of abundance. So I think when it comes to the American election, I don't think that they want a full civil war. I think that there's a limit they're willing to handle George Floyd type protests.
Tom Renz:That was certainly paid for, bought and paid for, But that was never going to turn into a full civil war. That was always a managed thing with a bunch of idiots in a few cities. What they want is that sort of disruption and distraction while the status quo is maintained or expanded. And so I think that it just comes down to a game of chicken. Who's going to blink first?
Tom Renz:I think that in this in this, I don't think that we get to a full civil war. I don't think that they want that. I think that what's most likely to occur is between now and the election, they, the bad guys, are going to continue to shore up their ability to survive and weather a Donald Trump presidency. And what that means is they're gonna continue pushing to have corrupt people throughout Washington, particularly in the bureaucracy, that will undermine and undercut Trump's ability to lead and govern. They're gonna try and pass laws on state and federal levels using corrupt partners to undermine his ability to lead and to govern.
Tom Renz:And if you look, one of the things that's very curious, I always read the tea leaves. If Donald Trump wins in 2024, he's gonna come in. And within five minutes, he's gonna be faced with the the dollar collapsing.
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Seth Holehouse:So if you only eat your favorite one or two veggies, you're missing a whole world of vital nutrients. And that's why you should eat a big variety of fruits and veggies. Well, I decided it was time to start taking Balance of Nature's fruit and veggie supplements each day. And get this, some Balance of Nature customers say the fruit and veggie capsules taste so good, you can actually chew them. So I gave Balance of Nature a try, and I'm glad I did.
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Tom Renz:Because we've seen the push for CBDCs, we see bricks, we see all the things coming around the country. The dollar's gonna collapse, the economy's gonna collapse. You're going to see disease X. We know there is currently funded on American soil gain of function work, the same stuff that was done in Wuhan, the same stuff that resulted in COVID. It's happening right now in America.
Tom Renz:And in fact, a number of the same people and scientists that were involved in the Wuhan lab are now working on American soil to do the same thing. So we know that. We know that Peter McCullough just released the Proximal Origins paper suggesting that this current bird flu that's running around is from a lab in Georgia, which I have done a lot of research on, and I concur with his opinion. I actually think that that's exactly what's happened. I think this was designed manufactured.
Tom Renz:We see the food supply under attack. This bird flu, I don't think is disease x. I think there'll be a different flu or something like that that'll be disease x. But this bird flu to me is much more about culling the herds and killing the animals so that we can make sure that we've got our poisoned bug meal and poisoned lab grown meat in the food supply on a much more profound level. We see all of these different things coming together, And they're all going to be hitting Donald Trump the second he gets into office.
Tom Renz:Meanwhile, I think they're also pushing to to buy off or to in place as many corrupt people as they can in and around Trump. And they wanna make sure that he's going to be neutered and ineffective, whether a four year storm of Donald Trump being there, and then get back to business. I think that's what we're looking at.
Seth Holehouse:So there's a lot to unpack with that. One thing that you said that just is I wanna just touch upon, which makes sense to me is that if they think that they'll have a hard time stopping Trump from getting in, which we talked about because they they they're at this place where if they push it too far, they'll have revolution. Which I wanna come back to that point. But basically, that what you're, you know, saying is that you think that then that the the if they can't steal another election, that the the backup will be, you know, you can say two pronged. One, putting in the political and legal framework to to to grind anything he wants to do to a halt.
Seth Holehouse:So to handcuff him as much as possible, but two, to create as much turmoil possible in his in his term so that he's also handcuffed. Right? So say he gets in, and after six months, there's a massive bird flu, you know, or whatever outbreak there is, and there's, you know, lockdowns, and, you know, there's food shortages and financial collapse that basically, they would be trying to create as much chaos as possible to make it so that, you know, so in a of ways, you could people in the future would say, yeah. That was one of the worst four years this this country's ever experienced.
Tom Renz:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, what they need to do is they need to demonstrate to the people of the world, if he gets in, how terrible of an idea it is to put America First, how terrible of an idea it is. So nationalism has become kind of a bad word.
Tom Renz:Right? And, of course, we see a lot of push and attack on the idea of Christian nationalism. But I think we need to define nationalism. Right? In this country, nationalism means supporting a nation that freed the slaves, that promoted freedom and equality around the world, that created the concept of suffrage and then promoted it around the world, that created economic prosperity on a global basis like that has never been seen before in this world.
Tom Renz:We led through freedom and prosperity. And and through our freedom and our prosperity, we shared it with the world. We've become the freedom freedom loving moral leader of the planet up until the past decade or two until basically, until Obama came in, And then we just let it all go to hell. So one of the things that that I think that they really need to do is they really need to to try and prove to everybody how terrible America is and how terrible the idea supporting our country is. But it's gonna have to be based on lies because the reality is is, yeah, the Christian nationalist supports the idea of forgiving and not judging.
Tom Renz:That's Christianity. And supports a nation that believes in equality, equal opportunity for all regardless of race, creed, color, and religion. And through that has facilitated more success than any other country in history.
Seth Holehouse:So, I wanna touch upon the other point that you're making about revolution. And which I think is really it's it is really important when I ask you, okay. Do you think they're going towards civil war? And your response, as I understood it to be, is, well, they know that they'd lose basically, because if enough people stand up against them, they would lose. And especially with America looking at how armed America is, and there's no changing that.
Seth Holehouse:Even if they passed, you know, super strict gun laws right now, that, you know, probably 95% of the guns would still stay on the you know, out out, you know, floating through the country. They they would not be able you know, especially at that point, you'd have even more you'd have, like, the most, you know, strong far left Democrats saying, I'm not giving you my gun. Like, bought this because I don't feel safe in my own home. So I'm not giving you my gun. So they can't backtrack that.
Seth Holehouse:And but I think you made an important point in saying that the when the laws or when the way that the government is behaving hits that tipping point, when it gets to the point where the average person then sees how corrupt it is, that's when you have this mass. So that's, again, you know, Malcolm Gladwell tipping point. It's that one little thing that happens, and everything changes after that. Whereas, I think right now, if you look at the, you know, going back through history with totalitarianism, now, sometimes it was through force. You know, sometimes it was through army taking over, etcetera, but the populations were never armed.
Seth Holehouse:Right? They were always disarmed through some sort of means, you know, five, ten years before, you know, the country fell into tyranny. So but in those situations, though, there was this a softening up where they bring the laws into place, get everything in place. That way, once they switch over to tyranny, it's almost like the cage was already built around people before they before they realized it. Whereas think in America, they're trying to build that cage around us, so that if they want to flip on that switch of tyranny that we're already in that cage, but they can't.
Seth Holehouse:We have too much freedom of speech. We have too much, you know, freedom of Second Amendment, That there's too many things that they can't control, and they know that they hit that tipping point. I wanna bring up a quote that was it's unknown. I think this perfectly describes and I'll read it. It's not not too long.
Seth Holehouse:I think this perfectly describes what would happen if they push things to that point. So it's called Beware the People Who Want Left Alone. It says, The most terrifying force of death comes from the hands of men who wanted to be left alone. They try so very hard to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it.
Seth Holehouse:They know that the moment they fight back their lives as they have lived them are over. The moment the men who wanted to be left alone are forced to fight back, it is a form of suicide. They are literally killing off who they used to be, which is why when forced to take up violence, these men who wanted to be left alone fight with unholy vengeance against those who murdered their former lives. They fight with raw hate in a drive that cannot be fathomed by those who are merely play acting at politics and terror. True terror will arrive at these people's door, and they will cry, scream, and beg for mercy, but it will fall upon the deaf ears of the men who just wanted to be left alone.
Seth Holehouse:And I just I feel like that's such a powerful statement. I think that that's you. You're one of those guys who wanted to be left alone. But Yeah. Now that you realize
Tom Renz:reading when you were reading, and I've never seen that, and I hope you please send that to me afterwards because I wanna share that. I've never seen that. But when you were reading that, that's it. That's it. Right?
Tom Renz:I'm sitting here minding my own business in Fremont, Ohio, and they tell me they're gonna lock me in my house for fourteen days to flatten the curve. They're gonna tell my children they have to wear masks. They're gonna try and force me to put a poison into my kids' arms that I know is gonna kill them over time. No. I'm sorry.
Tom Renz:And you gotta understand something. I'll never forgive, and I'll never forget. Not the people who did it intentionally. I'll forgive the people who didn't know. But the people who are trying to murder, they can get forgiveness from Jesus Christ.
Tom Renz:They ain't getting it from me. I'm gonna tell you that. I will not forget what occurred. I'm gonna tell you, Seth, as a friend and you know because we interviewed and we talked a lot, you know, as we're going through COVID. I was the first attorney in the country to do what I did.
Tom Renz:I led this in a lot of ways. And I may not have been the I was well, I may not there's no may not. I was not the right man for the job, but I was forced. And when I sat here in my office and promised God, God, I don't want this fight, but I think you want me to have it. And if you put it before me, I'll do it.
Tom Renz:And that was a big deal to me. To this day, four years later, I think about that on a daily basis. I didn't want this, and neither did a lot of us who who were forced to wake from our slumber as happy Americans living our lives in what we thought was a free country to fight against forces of tyranny that we can barely imagine to this day. And when I think back as attorney first attorney that was doing this and the only one speaking out to the phone call after phone call after phone call I got, Please, mister you're the only attorney out there. Will you save my loved one who's being murdered in the hospital?
Tom Renz:Please, mister Renz, my loved one's being murdered. My son, my daughter, my aunt, my uncle, they're murdering her. We know they're murdering her. We know that they won't do anything. They've told us there's five days to live in their life, and they won't let us try ivermectin.
Tom Renz:Why won't they let us try ivermectin if we're gonna die anyways? And so many I ran out hours in the day, Seth. You're a dad. I'm a dad. And, you know, I'm talking to a mom or a dad whose son, so his adult son, because no kids were dying from it, but it was but still their child is being murdered.
Tom Renz:And they're begging me for help. And I'm looking and I'm I'm at, okay, what are their numbers? What's their this? What's their that? And I know.
Tom Renz:I'm sorry. Your kid's got three days. I can't get anything together for a court. There's nothing I can do. There's literally nothing I can do.
Tom Renz:Your baby's gonna die. I will never forget that. It's one to this day, it makes me pretty emotional to talk about, and I don't have emotions. I'm a lawyer. The blood on my hands because I couldn't do more.
Tom Renz:I remember waking up on this desk. There's a desk in front of me. I remember waking up on this desk with my head with a puddle of drool one day because I passed out. I don't know. I hadn't slept for days.
Tom Renz:And I remember that I woke up and I was like, oh god. Because I was trying to do for some people that stuff. And I woke up, and I saw in one of my messages a note from a mom who who told me how much she loved and appreciated me, But I didn't have to worry about her baby anymore. He's in heaven. I failed that mom.
Tom Renz:I wanted to live my life. I didn't want this. When I signed up to be a lawyer, I didn't know I was gonna have that. When I promised God that if I I didn't realize what it meant, but I hold to my promise. The men who didn't want to be bothered, who wanted to be left alone, are the men they need to fear.
Tom Renz:And I'm going to tell you something. I don't give a damn, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart. I will die on this hill if I have to. I will stand for my children's future and your children and any other children there is. And I promised it to God.
Tom Renz:So I'm quite serious. In my world, there is no bigger promise I can make. I will fight for freedom. I will fight for equality. I will fight for equal opportunity.
Tom Renz:I will fight for the things that this country stands for and against the tyranny I see coming and I see doing. Period. And that quote is dead right. You don't have to worry about the people who are putting on a show. You gotta worry about the people like me.
Tom Renz:And the more we fight and the more scars we take, the harder we fight. And I'll tell you four years in, within six months of fighting this, I can't tell you how many people told me, you don't sleep. You don't stop. How can you do this? There's no way you can keep this pace up.
Tom Renz:Four years in, I'm gonna tell you something. I am now farther from being able to walk away from this than ever, and I will continue with this in any way that I have to peacefully, lawfully, and properly, fighting with everything I've got till my dying breath.
Seth Holehouse:Because you're one of those men, And you're an example of that.
Tom Renz:All I wanted to be was left alone. Never wanted this. I didn't want to be famous. I always thought that was horrible. I like the lawyer thing.
Tom Renz:I like fighting for justice, but I didn't I mean, I'm fighting up. You know? I mean, I'm not fighting a fair fight here. I don't mind it. I, you know, I get excited about that.
Tom Renz:I'd rather I I'd rather punch a bully than I don't like, you know, beating up someone that's easy. You know you know, Seth, I I I had never missed one of my kid's soccer practices. The practices. My kids play soccer. I went to every practice for both of my kids.
Tom Renz:I never missed a game. Never missed anything. Then this all happened. I mean, I I'm trying to make as many of the games as I can, but I I mean, I just wanted to do that. I wanted to be a dad.
Tom Renz:But the scars, the sacrifices, now my wife's got stage four cancer. We're fighting that. I got sanctioned by a crooked judge who, in my opinion, is nothing but corrupt. You know, I'm I'm fighting that. You know, they're coming after me personally, my house, my everything.
Tom Renz:Gateway Pundit did a big article on. I'm getting hit every day in the same way that Donald Trump, Mike Lindell, all these other guys are getting hit. And I'm honored to stand in their shadow. I mean, these guys are giants. Right?
Tom Renz:I'm some guy from Ohio. But I'm honored to be fighting this fight. And but I had to give all that stuff. I had to give up everything that made me a normal person. I don't get to come home after work and, you know, hang out.
Tom Renz:My work doesn't end. My schedule right now, my calendar, my people know. Try not to schedule any meetings that start after 1AM. Because, I got on the Pacific time, 1AM is only 10:00. So I work on the East Coast.
Tom Renz:I work on the West Coast. I work on all coasts. I work everywhere. So it's not uncommon. Do 12:00.
Tom Renz:I have meetings at 12:00AM consistently. I mean, I I get up in the morning, and sometimes I get to, you know, eat breakfast with my kids. Sometimes I'm in meetings. I don't you know, dinner, maybe, maybe not. The only thing that I do is I still make sure that I make time to say prayers with them every night regardless of where in the country I am.
Tom Renz:You know, we always have our nightly call for the family prayers and stuff like that. Man, I wanted to be left alone. But I I the man who I was, and that quote so succinctly sum this up, is dead. I had to kill myself to fight this fight. The guy who I was, and my wife has said it to me.
Tom Renz:She's like, you're a different person now. Yeah, I know. That guy had to die because if I didn't let him die, I couldn't do what I'm doing. So I don't say it with regret. I don't really look I'm not looking for a high five for it.
Tom Renz:But, I mean, this is the reality. When people tell me there's nothing you can do, that's horse crap. You can do something. You just gotta be gotta be willing to sacrifice everything if you wanna do something. If you wanna do something big, you gotta sacrifice more.
Tom Renz:But for most people, I'd just be happy if they would click share. It would share this show, share who we are, let people know about your other words, send us $5 a week, Save a Starbucks and send us $5 a week so that I can not be under a bridge embankment fighting this. Just little things. Get involved with your local GOP. Become a precinct rep.
Tom Renz:Something. That's what if a million or if millions of people would do that, it's all worth it because then, you know, the the guys like me, we got something to work with. We got more to work with. We just need some support and backing. I said, I'll die on the hill, but I'd much rather win the war.
Tom Renz:I have no interest in dying on the hill. My goal is to win. I mean, I but I'm willing. So, you know, that's why we need people.
Seth Holehouse:There's a lot of emotions that come in this discussion. And even, you know, I've got I've got a little three and a half month old, beautiful beautiful little girl. I mean, she's Congratulations. And got a and I've got a three and a half year old, and to see those two interacting and and see them, you know, see my three year old out running, you know, running through the backyard with her bare butt, you know, picking dandelions and and just thinking, gosh, there's just there's so much innocence. And, yeah, it's difficult because before when I was younger, I didn't have any kids, and it was easy to throw myself into this fight.
Seth Holehouse:You know, immediately after college, I I moved to New York City and and just went went straight into working, you know, eighty, ninety, hundred hour work weeks, you know, for for the media and different projects to try to, you know, do what I could to expose the evils of communism. And it was easy because I had not had nothing that really I cared about. So I just threw myself into it. But now as a, you know, a father with children and thinking, okay, what's their future look like? And there's sometimes I think, gosh, I just wish I could switch it off.
Seth Holehouse:I wish I could walk outside and not see all the chemtrails. I wish I could walk through the grocery store and not see all the poison. I wish I could just go back that simple way. But I think that there's something really important that's happening. Because when you're just that guy that doesn't want to be left alone and wants to raise the family and just stay in your own little neck of the woods, you're not doing something great.
Seth Holehouse:I'm not saying that there's no there's not greatness in that because there is even just being a father and raising a family, raising new people, that's great. But there's something greater that's happening right now. Because when that old self dies and that new self emerges, that new self is driven by a purpose that's higher than most people's purposes throughout history. It's this it's this massive purpose of trying to protect this great nation and trying to leave something for our children. And as difficult as it is to not have the just the comfort and the relaxation of how things were saying in the 90s, you know, me growing up as a innocent kid, there's something much bigger now.
Seth Holehouse:And I'm sure that for yourself, you know, you wouldn't, you wouldn't turn back. You wouldn't go to your former self and say, You know what, Tom, don't go down that route. Just put your head in the sand. You know, just be a, you know, be a lawyer, you know, get rich, relax, and just hope for the best. Wouldn't do that.
Seth Holehouse:Think that we're at that tipping point where there's a lot of Americans that have reached that point where they're they just want to be left alone, but now their old self is dying. They're realizing that there's something much greater they have to join in the fight for. And I think that that's what will turn the tides for this country is it's enough of just the ordinary men, the ordinary women, the parents, the grandparents, the children's enough of them collectively saying I've had enough. I'm not going to stand for this anymore.
Tom Renz:When when the COVID fight was at its peak, and I was making such tremendous progress against such awful tyranny, I had a number of very, very powerful people who I love and respect who are on our side say, Renz, we need you on election, or we need you on this, or we need you on that. And I said, I I can't. I don't have the capacity. I'm maxed out on COVID. Yeah.
Tom Renz:But that's not as important. And I told him, I said, well, I I gotta respectfully disagree with you. See, the thing about COVID was is it touched us at home. I can't prove to you everybody was upset about twenty twenty being stolen, But you didn't have to wear a mask over a stolen election. It affected someone else.
Tom Renz:You saw the masks. You saw your kids being at home. You saw how that affected them. We had and we were making progress. I'm proud to say I was the first lawyer to do anything substantial on a national or international scale on this.
Tom Renz:We did that in a way that was very credible. It was very difficult to fight back against for the bad guys, and it was all based on truth and transparency and honesty. Once we had established that and developed credibility, it was critical that we continued with that. Because once people saw we knew eventually the mainstream and everybody else would see the truth. And we're starting to see that now.
Tom Renz:I mean, we're just seeing Chris Cuomo. I mean, left us coming out and talking about vaccines and ivermectin and things like that. We're fine. We're there. Right?
Tom Renz:But I had to make sure that we had one issue where we could show the depth of the depravity of the other side. I had to see it through. I had to continue to make sure that my betters would speak for me. When Peter McCullough comes out and speak, you know, Peter was an expert for me on a case. His resume is a 70 some pages with no fluff.
Tom Renz:He's that smart, and it's legit. This guy is brilliant on levels you can't imagine. When I see some of these other guys, Ryan Cole, some of these other people that are fighting on this, You know, I'm standing on the shoulders of giants, but I helped to lift those giants up even further. I needed that to happen. Because when that happened, it made what we're doing something that no one could deny.
Tom Renz:And then you can ask the question. If they would lie to you, if Anthony Fauci, who just admitted on the Hill, that masks do nothing and they have no evidence about them having any positive effect on kids, social distancing was made up, etcetera, etcetera, if they would lie to you as barefaced and as blatantly as they did on that, maybe they were lying about the election. Maybe they were lying about these other issues. And that that was foundational to what I was doing. It was long game.
Tom Renz:We weren't gonna win this all with a couple victories and a couple battles. We had to win the war, and it was triage. This oh, I you know, I'm I guess I'm not smart enough for five d tests, but I did have a plan. It was about winning the war. And the only way to win a war is make sure that the battles that you have a chance to win, you keep winning until you get behind the lines.
Tom Renz:We had to break through somewhere. We weren't gonna break through on elections. We weren't gonna break through. There there were too many mistakes made right away. It's not that the cases were all bad, but there were enough mistakes made that we couldn't get there.
Tom Renz:I couldn't do anything on some of these other things that was gonna have as big of an impact on COVID. But if I could show we, the people, not the political class, not the people who, you know, who I speak with on a stage, they already know. I needed to get to the people who didn't know. If I could wake up the common man, the man who didn't wanna fight, the man who you just mentioned in that quote. That was the power.
Tom Renz:That was how we do this, because then. If you remember, I said it on your show and I said it since 2020. If I show you these guys are liars, when do you trust a liar? You're to trust me who's never been shown to lie ever? Or are you going to trust these guys who've never been shown to tell the truth once?
Tom Renz:That is the most powerful and profound strategic thing that I've done. And it was always a foundational piece. If we show the other side to be liars, you people will start questioning everything because it's the same people on the other side. Joe Biden told us we need to mask. There was no evidence.
Tom Renz:Joe Biden told us that the election was fair. Well, wait a second. If he just lied to me about masks, why would I trust him on this? So this is a critical, critical thing. It was strategic.
Tom Renz:And you gotta understand, Seth, on my biggest day, I'm a nobody from Fremont. I've got a platform. I got influences that talk about what I do, and I got reach. But on my biggest day, I'm a fraction of a Donald Trump, a Tucker Carlson, a minute fraction. What I had to do was I had to create a loud and awake enough army to influence the influencers to start seeing what I'm saying and to get them talking.
Tom Renz:I read and studied the other side. I read and studied how they use psychology and principles of sociology to manipulate the population. I looked at what they were doing. I recognized their tactics, and I just turned them on. And, you know, the good news is is if you do it with truth see, the problem is is they used all of the science and all this stuff to push lies.
Tom Renz:For me, that's really expensive. For me, it was dirt cheap because all I had to do is tell you the truth. Use the same principles, but to promote truth and God and family and country and faith and good things. And the good stuff spreads like wildfire, and truth resonates. And so when people saw nobody from Ohio telling them the truth, and they could go verify it because I had I always had the receipts.
Tom Renz:And then they saw, you know, this super powerful, arrogant jerk, Anthony Fauci or Joe Biden or whoever up there lying to him.
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Tom Renz:What I had to do was I had to create a loud and awake enough army to influence the influencers to start seeing what I'm saying and to get them talking. I read and studied the other side. I read and studied how they use psychology and principles of sociology to manipulate the population. I looked at what they were doing. I recognized their tactics, and I just turned them on.
Tom Renz:And, you know, the good news is is if you do it with truth see, the problem is is they used all of the science and all this stuff to push lies. For me, that's really expensive. For me, it was dirt cheap because all I had to do is tell you the truth. Use the same principles, but to promote truth in God and family and country and faith and good things. And the good stuff spreads like wildfire, and truth resonates.
Tom Renz:And so when people saw nobody from Ohio telling them the truth, and they could go verify it because I had I always had the receipts. And then they saw, you know, this super powerful, arrogant jerk, Anthony Fauci or Joe Biden or whoever up there lying to him. What was that? What did I have to gain? I didn't bill for my legal work.
Tom Renz:For three years, I didn't send out a bill. I was the most in demand attorney in the country, and I sent out no bills. I I worked for free. I exhausted my savings. I exhausted everything I had.
Tom Renz:I had to do it that way. I worked off of donations. I had to do it that way because I had to show that it wasn't for it wasn't for me. And by the way, I testified under oath about this. I've got a record.
Tom Renz:So anybody that wants to challenge me on that, you're welcome. I'll go under oath with what I've said. You find someone else who will. I had to prove to people that there is at least someone had to have honesty. Someone had to have integrity.
Tom Renz:Someone had to do it for the right reasons, which meant doing all the hard things that no one wanted to do. And, you know, most people don't know, and I don't really care. I don't need everybody to know. What I need to do is is make sure that now, as I have a little bit of a platform and as it continues to grow, I've got to continue to find ways to inspire people to do what's right over what's easy and convince them to follow truth rather than the easy lie. You know, the easy thing to do is put your head down, keep collecting your paycheck, and live your live your best life.
Tom Renz:The hard thing to do is to get your butt up and do something about it, to be uncomfortable, to tell your neighbor, hey, you know, I know you're walking around with your head in the sand, but maybe you ought to do something. Maybe you ought to wake up to tell your other neighbor, hey, you disagree with me. That's fine. Let me tell you why I stand for what I do. And if we still disagree and you don't like me, tough.
Tom Renz:That's the tough road. The easy road is, Well, I'm just gonna go to work and then I'm gonna go golf this weekend. And what I've gotta do, and part of my mission as I continue to fight legally and continue to push legislation and continue, is to try and find ways to inspire people to do what's right over what's easy. And I struggle with it myself. Understand I'm a sinner.
Tom Renz:I make mistakes. I have. On a personal level, I've made all sorts of mistakes. The sacrifices that I've made in this fight have damaged me as a person on on levels I can't begin to describe. But I will tell you proudly and with absolute honesty and say it before God himself.
Tom Renz:In this fight, I have not deviated from that promise any more than I could control. I've fought this with integrity, with transparency, with truth, the very best of my ability and will continue.
Seth Holehouse:Well, you certainly inspire me to do what's right.
Tom Renz:Sir. That's
Seth Holehouse:To keep fighting.
Tom Renz:That's more meaningful than you know, sir. It's all we it's all we can really do. Right? I mean, it's all we can do because I'm one man. I I could file a suit.
Tom Renz:I could file a couple suits, but one man could be taken out. It's never gonna be about me. It's gonna be about us. It's gonna be we, the people that wins this. As a Christian, I'm gonna tell you, I knew from the beginning.
Tom Renz:This fight will never end with Tom Rehns being a hero. This fight ends up with us winning in glory, going to God where it belongs. It's not us. It's not me. And we aren't doing it for glory.
Tom Renz:We're doing it for God's will and for our children's future. And if you're fighting it for any other reason, you'll fail. I've watched for four years, I've watched people come in thinking that they were gonna be famous, thinking they were gonna be big shots, thinking that, oh, how cool is it to be big and famous and to, you know, be on with Seth Wholehouse and to be on with, you know, the Alec Jones and the I wanna do that. But then they start finding out what happens. They start finding out that when you're not on camera, the death threats, the people trying to buy you off, the people trying to undermine you, the people threatening you, the people censoring you, the fact that you're fighting broke 99% of the time.
Tom Renz:They find out that it's not quite as glorious as it looks when you're interviewing and being a big shot on the camera. And that applause that you get when you walk off that stage is pretty damn fleeting. It's great. It's an honor that I never thought I would achieve in my life, and I've realized it on levels that I would never have fathomed. And I'm more grateful and honored to the people who have supported me and backed me than they'll ever know.
Tom Renz:But at the end of the day, when that applause quits and you're sitting in the hotel room by yourself again, you don't get to see your wife or your kids, you've been on the road for God knows how long, You finish calling in and saying prayers with your kids so that they can go to bed, and you left with your thoughts. You look at the emails for the day. You find out that you're, you know, getting hit by a judge or attacked by this or attacked by that, and you got someone you know, someone's trying to buy you off and someone's threatening you and someone's this. That applause was nice, but I've watched an awful lot of people who thought that that was what they were gonna fight for. But fighting pretty quick when that's when the reality of the fight really hit them.
Tom Renz:And so I will say to my patriot brothers and sisters who started in 2020 with me and who are still standing strong, that includes Yousef, God bless you. And congratulations on being some of the few who've had the courage to do what you've done because so many people who were so much better and stronger and smarter than me, I've watched come, get put on their knees, and taken right out of this fight. So it's an act of God, those of us still standing.
Seth Holehouse:I agree completely. So as we wrap up, I wanna bring attention to two web two sites. One is this your main web page, TomRenz.com. This is where people can find more information about you about the podcast. They can see your recent information.
Seth Holehouse:Great. Very professional site. So we've got this. And we've also got the the donate button, which is GiveSyngo. So GiveSyngo /RenzLaw.
Seth Holehouse:This is I encourage people. I mean, obviously, you know, this interview speaks for itself. So if folks do want to support you, this is a great place for it. I'll make sure those links are in the description. Mister Tom Rens, it is such an honor to speak with you and to have this conversation.
Seth Holehouse:And it's funny because we you know, I didn't really set out with any particular intention with this interview. But it just seems to be what comes about when you and I sit down together that I think think last couple interviews that we've we've almost both been in tears multiple times. So there's something very real going on here, and I I really appreciate the opportunity to share it with you.
Tom Renz:Well, you're you're one of my favorite interviews, Seth, because we get into things that are meaningful as a man, as warrior, as a fighter. And I wear that proudly. I'm a warrior. I'm a fighter. That's who I had to become when I had to kill the old me.
Tom Renz:I wasn't. I mean, I always had it in my heart, but I so I had to become. And it's an honor to have the opportunity to share kind of core who I am to people. Because if I'm gonna ask people to trust me and to donate to me and to back me and to do these things, man, I had to make the very difficult decision to make sure that people could see exactly who I am and exactly what they're backing. And, I mean, it's as truthful as you get.
Tom Renz:I mean, if you sit down and have a beer with me, I'll tell you the same thing I said on the show.
Seth Holehouse:Exactly. Exactly. Well, Tom, thank you. God bless. I look forward to the next time.
Tom Renz:God bless, Tom.
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