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Hosted by Steve Phipps of Wayfind Marketing, The Growth-Minded Marketing Podcast simplifies marketing for B2B CEOs ready to grow with confidence. Each episode offers real-world strategies, step-by-step coaching, and inspiring CEO interviews—all designed to help you align your marketing with your business goals, stop wasting time and money, and scale without the stress. If you’re a growth-minded leader tired of vague advice and underperforming tactics, this is your next step.
Jonathan: We've heard it all the time that
it can sometimes be lonely at the top.
As a owner or a CEO, you're carrying
the weight, you're carrying the risk.
You're carrying a lot of the decision
making burden and sometimes it's nice
to have someone you can share it with.
And so that's what we're creating a
network of businesses that will leverage
each other's gifts, talents, expertise,
to be able to go a whole lot further.
Steve: That was a quote from a
recent conversation that I had with
my friend and fellow, CEO, Jonathan
Torres, and he goes by Torres.
And you know, it really hit me because
Torres has really been in the trenches.
He's led both nonprofit organizations
as well as for-profit companies.
So he has this unique
breadth of experience.
Now he's building something really
powerful peer groups for CEOs
and owners who really want to lead
with purpose and not do it alone.
And honestly, that really
resonated with me because.
I've had those seasons where I
was that CEO feeling, the weight,
carrying the risk, making tough calls,
and wondering who I could turn to.
And that's why I'm in a peer group
and that's why this conversation
with Torres really, it's not
just another podcast interview.
It was an encouragement to me personally
and professionally, and I've gotta
imagine that it will be for you as well.
Now, as I said, Torres has led
nonprofits, but most recently he served
as the CEO of a home and commercial
security company based here in Memphis.
Today he is focused on mentoring and
leading and coaching business leaders
here in Memphis as a chair for C 12.
Now, that is a faith-based peer advisory
group for CEOs who want to build
great businesses for greater purpose.
And this conversation reminded
me, and I hope it reminds you that
we weren't meant to lead alone.
That we were meant for a bigger purpose.
Now there's strength in community.
There's power and shared purpose.
And when we surround ourselves with
the right people, we don't just build
better businesses, we become stronger
and more influential leaders in the
places that we've been called to lead.
AnnieLaurie: You are listening to the
Growth Mind and Marketing podcast.
I'm Annie Laurie Walters, joined
by our host Steve Phipps, president
and CEO of WAY find marketing.
In this podcast, we deliver
strategy first, marketing insights
for B2B CEOs and their teams
Steve: in this episode, Torres and
I talk about leadership and purpose,
but we also dig into how culture
and identity shape your company's
marketing and sales efforts.
Because if your internal culture
isn't clear, your external
message isn't going to connect.
We talk about the link between what
happens inside your business and
how it shows up and the way that you
attract, serve, and retain customers.
So without further ado, here
is my conversation with Memphis
Leader and CEO Jonathan Torres.
Torres you've got a lot of experience and
I'm excited to have you here on the show.
You've served in a variety of
different leadership capacities,
both nonprofit and for-profit, and
so I'm looking forward to hearing
what you have to share with us today.
And so, Torres, if you would you
go ahead, introduce yourself to a
little bit about your background
and what you've been up to recently.
Jonathan: Sure.
Thanks for having me here.
I've spent 20 years in the nonprofit
space first with an organization
called Young Life then with another
local organization Memphis Athletic
Ministries, better known as mam.
And loved my experience there, being
able to grow both a smaller team.
A to a team at MAM with over a hundred
employees and part-time and full-time.
And then transitioning into the business
world at FRA Protection local residential
and commercial security company.
And now I'm currently
working for C 12 Memphis.
I'm the chair here in Memphis.
A faith-based peer advisory group
for business leaders and CEOs.
Steve: Fantastic.
Now Torres, you've, it's 20 plus
years spanning, as you said, both
nonprofit and the business world.
And so you made the jump from
nonprofit into for-profits year and
a half ago, almost two years ago.
Yes.
So what was that transition like
? Jonathan: The transition was really
surprisingly seamless in the sense
of balance sheets all look the same.
P and ls all look the same.
All of the financial aspects of it
looked the same on the service side.
Going from the nonprofit into the business
world, our customers, while they might
look different were still customers,
they still had great experiences,
some of them having poor experiences,
ways to fix those experiences.
So the leadership aspect of
it was very much the same.
And I think the biggest thing I learned
was that regardless of who you are
leading, whether it is people working for.
The nonprofit sector or the business
sector, people are people and they
need to be led with integrity and
clarity and vision and with a purpose.
And they need to be led with authenticity,
just being who you are all the time.
And I think that when we look
at our leadership whether that's
in a business or a nonprofit.
We have to be leading from a place of
just being honest and open with our
people and leading them with integrity.
Steve: one of the things that I really
appreciate about you as a leader,
and this ties into what you were just
saying, and that is the importance
of vision and casting that vision.
Leading towards that, but doing so with
integrity, doing so with authenticity.
And so of course you and I had a chance
to work together for almost a year while
you were at FRA, I got to see firsthand.
How you led your team to
develop core values and you
cast a very compelling vision.
And so talk briefly if you would, about
the process of, and the importance of that
and ultimately how that impacts bringing
in new customers and growing the business.
Jonathan: I think the first part
is having a quality strategy.
And there is a difference
between a strategy and a plan.
A lot of times people have a plan they
want to do X and then they want to
do y . But a strategy is a lot more
based around the idea of what is going
to set us apart from our competitors.
From from the people that
are in the same space as us.
Whether that's the quality of
service, whether that's the quality
of product, the quality of whatever
it is that you are selling.
And so if you have a compelling strategy
of how you will win the game whatever
that game is then I think that's the first
part is having a compelling strategy.
Then I think it's a matter of
finding the right people to join
you in executing that strategy and
making sure that everyone's aligned.
Everyone knows what
direction we're rowing in.
Then you're able to rally a, an
entire company around something
that is bigger than them.
It's a greater purpose.
And I believe that when you have a greater
purpose, then you have a great business.
And when you have a great business,
that's when when you can really succeed.
Steve: So having a clear purpose,
something that's bigger than just
making revenue, than just making profit.
And of course, obviously
a business needs that.
But to have something that's bigger
and more compelling and as you said,
rallying the right people around
that now because it is not just
anybody's gonna be on board with that.
Jonathan: No, absolutely not.
Some people are, some people just
honestly, they are there to collect
a paycheck, and that is okay.
You're going to have
those people on your team.
But the majority, I would say at least
80% of your core leaders the people
that are right alongside you, they
have to be in like-minded vision.
And strategy and purpose so that you
can really have synergy around how you
execute all of the different facets of
your business, whether it's the finances,
the operations the communication, the
marketing, the sales any part of it has
to be, rowing in the same direction if you
have someone going left, when everyone's
going right, it really drains the energy.
It drains the time and then you're
no longer leading the business.
You're just putting out fires.
And no business leader wants to
be constantly putting out fires,
not you, not me, not anybody.
We'd rather be leading with with
joy and excitement and not have to
micromanage and get into the weeds.
Steve: So one particular part of the
business, one group of folks that
you just mentioned that I want to
dig into a little bit more is sales.
In a lot of companies, sales and marketing
at best, they just tolerate each other.
And oftentimes they battle back and
forth with each other and I know
this to be true about you, that
you value straightforwardness, you
know, answer the hard questions.
Don't shy away from a customer
or prospect who's gonna ask you.
The hard questions and, lead with honesty.
Just anticipate their questions.
And of course, you know, we leverage
a framework called they Ask You
Answer which has been recently
rebranded Endless Customers.
And within that framework,
that is one of the big things
is answer the hard questions.
I know that you instilled that
from a cultural perspective, but.
The reality is, especially with
salespeople not all, I don't wanna broad
stroke every salesperson out there but a
lot of salespeople bristle at the idea or
the thought of of answering some of those
questions in a very open and honest way.
So, sure.
What was your experience like?
Working with some salespeople
both the wins and the challenges.
Jonathan: Some of the challenges are the
realities for a salesperson of, well,
what if we put our pricing on the website?
What if we actually were to tell people
upfront with clarity about our pricing?
Well, the normal thing is that our
competitors will see it and that
others will see it, and they'll
maybe get a competitive edge and
they'll undercut us in pricing.
Some of the realities to
that are that may be true.
We may not be the lowest price
every time, and that's okay.
And that's because we wanna
find the right customer.
And we wanna find the customer that is
educated, they understand the value that
our business brings, they understand
the service that we're going to provide.
They understand all of that
encompasses that higher price.
And so you have to just
be honest and tell.
Your customer.
Yeah, we may not be the right fit for
every single one of our customers in the
city that there is a certain level that
we expect from the customer of investment
that they're gonna make into our product,
whether that is to buy the product,
the service there is an investment,
and if they understand the investment.
They also understand the value, then it's
okay to have those hard conversations.
And so being able to have a hard
conversation really is going to make
it so much easier for the salesperson.
But that buy-in at first
can be the real hurdle.
The real obstacle to overcome.
But when they do it, that's where
I think you see the big wins.
I think you can really get a team
rallied around being as as honest and
open and transparent as possible so
that we have very educated and informed
customers so that they can make the
best decision to solve their problems.
We are there to solve their problems.
Every business is supposed
to be solving a problem.
And if we can guide our customers
to solve those problems themselves
by finding the right solutions,
then like you've told me a million
times, they become the hero, not us.
And so we want to make sure
that we're setting our customers
up for maximum success.
Steve: I love that perspective
because that is treating the
buyers with respect and it's.
It's not demeaning to them or
belittling them by withholding
information that they genuinely want.
The old adage that, that we've all
heard nobody wants to be sold but
people, no, not at all do want to buy.
I think when we take a fear-based
position of I don't want to give
away our pricing, I don't want to
answer these hard questions 'cause
what if they don't choose us?
But if you are the buyer, if you
are the customer, how do you want
the salesperson to respond to you?
When you're asking about pricing, do
you want them to him and hall and sit
behind a pitch deck or do you just
want them to shoot straight so you know
whether or not you can afford it or not?
Jonathan: The reality is that our
customers are going to make decisions
based off of what they value.
Whether that is their time,
their finances their energy that
they're gonna have to put into it.
They're going to make an investment
and if we can help them make the
best investment they really feel
like they're getting quality service.
They're getting a quality product, and.
Then they become loyal,
faithful customers.
And that's ultimately we wanna build,
you wanna build a customer base that
is loyal and faithful to the brand,
loyal and faithful to the business.
And that they become the ones who
sing your praises, who are making
referrals, who are going out and
talking about how great a service and
experience they had with your business.
Steve: Absolutely.
And I think there's a level of confidence.
What you can deliver.
That is the basis for being able to answer
those questions openly and honestly.
And I would even draw it back too to, to
what you were talking about earlier, and
that's having a clear cut strategy and
part of that is who is the right customer?
Because if you're aiming
at everybody, then.
NI have yet to meet the company that has
a marketing budget to market to everybody.
Jonathan: But when there's probably,
there probably are some out there.
I just don't know them.
Steve: Nobody's introduced me
to Warren Buffet yet, so I've
not had the opportunity to
to pitch marketing services.
But I think there's so let's
shift gears here a little bit.
I'm gonna go back to the
sales team because Sure.
There's probably.
Some CEOs or owners who are listening,
and they would be on board with the idea
of I want to answer our buyer's questions
even the hard questions because ultimately
we know that's gonna build trust.
And for the right people, it's going to
position us as the most trusted company,
the most trusted voice in our space.
So how do you navigate?
Working with a salesperson who is very
resistant to the idea of taking that
approach of educating rather than, selling
and putting the, putting everything
on the bottom shelf, so to speak.
Jonathan: I think we need to build
a culture in our business of that.
And if the leader builds a culture
of it from their perspective,
the leader or owner is someone
who answers the hard questions.
When employees want to know how is
this gonna impact my bottom line?
When they have questions about some of
the decisions we make that again, we as
leaders, answer those hard questions.
If we can build an entire culture
and company around this idea from
the top, then they can see, well,
I appreciate it as an employee.
I appreciate it.
As someone who is.
Invested into this company and has to
sell this service, sell this product.
And so if I'm receiving that, how much
more do the customers wanna receive that?
And so I think it does start with
the leader, starts with that sales
manager, that executive, whoever
is is running that team to be able
to answer the hard questions with
honesty, transparency, and integrity.
And a ton of clarity, being able to
maybe go a little deeper than they
would want to go in explaining the why.
And when you explain the why that
you've made a decision or you've
changed a comp plan or you've changed
something that impacts them, they
can then go, well, this is, I can see
how this benefits the business, or it
benefits the company or benefits me.
I'm on board and.
So if you can lead the business that
way, build that culture, then when it
comes time to have that conversation
about doing it for our customers,
it makes it that much simpler.
But if we can't answer the hard questions
as a leader of why we're making these
decisions, it's really hard for them
to follow that idea all the way out to
our marketing and our communication.
Steve: I love that.
You went to culture Treating each other
the way that we would want to be treated.
And it starts before we even start
the marketing, it has to start
with the culture of the business.
Because you're right, if as a member
of a company or a team, if internally
things are closed off, there's no
authenticity and people aren't willing
to have the hard conversations, then
it's gonna be really difficult for.
The sales team to buy into that.
What happens when you do those
things and you still run into a
salesperson who's just not buying in?
Like what, how did you, how would
you approach something like that?
Jonathan: The realities are that if there
becomes a crossroad that you have to you
have to get through with an employee, they
may not be the best fit for your company.
And unfortunately there are people that
don't want to buy in and that happens.
And they might need to
go work somewhere else.
We have to hold a line as leaders of what
we're going to build in our culture, what
we're going to and accept in our culture.
And culture is king.
We can talk a lot about
core values on a wall.
We can talk a lot about all these
things, but if we don't actually
implement them and run the business.
In accordance with those core values.
Then it's really just words on a wall
and some cool decorations and some stuff
that you could throw on your website.
But they don't mean anything.
And so there just are realities that
sometimes no matter how much that
salesperson is good or that they're great
or they could sell ice to an Eskimo.
The realities are that.
There is a certain expectation
and a certain level of of
authenticity and culture that we
have to build in our businesses.
If we're going to have great businesses,
you can have a good business.
You can make money and have revenue,
but I think what sets a great business
apart is having that culture that
really dictates how we operate.
Steve: I dare say that a lot of business
owners and CEOs, when they think about
building the organization and they're
thinking about sales and marketing, the
company culture is probably not at the top
of the list that they're thinking of as it
relates to part of their growth strategy.
What I'm hearing and what I've seen
and we've even talked about this with
other clients is that when you implement
something like what you've talked about,
a culture of transparency, of honesty,
and then not only internally, but with
your customers, treat them with respect.
Treat them the way that you want to
be treated when you're the buyer.
Answer the hard questions,
honestly, openly.
Don't try to play the shell game
where , you skirt around it.
I mean, people detect the bs.
And it's the same thing with employees.
They detect the bs.
They know if leadership
is playing a Shell game.
I think the businesses that are
easiest to grow, and I use the term
easy loosely, are the ones that are
companies and cultures of integrity.
Because that honesty and that openness
with the buyers, those aren't tactics.
That's the culture.
That's not just a strategy.
It's deeper than a strategy.
It's the culture.
And that just carries all the way through.
And I think those are the types
of companies that, that people
really want to do business with.
Jonathan: Absolutely.
Because when they feel like they're
getting the runaround, or all of a sudden
they're getting tacked on with extra fees
and random things that are popping up.
Well, I wasn't expecting this.
I wasn't expecting that.
I wasn't ready for this.
I didn't budget for that.
All of a sudden you've built a wall
with your customer instead of a bridge.
And now that's where they go online and
they talk about a negative experience.
They're gonna go online and they're
gonna throw up horrible reviews.
They're gonna tell their friends, don't
ever do business with this company.
And that is actually
how you kill a company.
Is a poor experience.
You kill a company by having an
experience that no one enjoys,
that is shrouded in mystery.
And next thing you know the customer
is telling everyone on earth about how
crooked you are as a business person.
And that is the last thing any of us want.
Steve: It's an important shift, especially
when we're talking about sales, because
I know a lot of times the tendency is
let's respond to the hot lead right now.
And if they don't indicate that
they're ready to buy this minute, or
if they're asking the hard questions,
we're gonna try to pass over them.
Or we're gonna do this
salesy kind of thing.
But when you take the longer view and
you recognize what are we gonna get?
What potentially happens
as a result of this?
You know, are they gonna have trust
in us because we answered the hard
questions, honestly, or as you
pointed out, maybe they get, they
feel like they get hoodwinked or
sort of cajoled into something and
ultimately they're really upset and
that doesn't make for a good customer.
Jonathan: Not at all.
And the same is true for
customers in the business world.
The same is true for donors
in the nonprofit world.
The same is true on many different facets.
When you're dealing with the
for-profit or nonprofit side,
no one wants to feel hoodwinked.
No one wants to feel deceived or lied to.
Everyone wants to feel
like they're partners.
And if you can build a partnership
with your customers it goes a long way.
If you can build a partnership
with your donors you are
actually able to create change.
If you can build a partnership with your
employees they will go the extra mile.
And so if we can see the people that are.
Working for us, our customers,
not as simply dollar signs,
not simply as overhead, but
that we see them as partners.
I think we're changing the very culture of
the business as well to build something.
Great.
Steve: So speaking of partnering and
building, something great, you are now
with C 12 and for folks that aren't
familiar with C 12, I'll let you give
a little bit more of an explanation,
but you're gonna be working with, and
C 12 is a faith-based organization.
Working specifically with
business owners, with CEOs.
And developing these relationships
ultimately to help them run better
businesses, but to have more
impact in their families and their
communities spiritually, et cetera.
So why don't you talk a little bit
about what led you to C 12 and what that
looks like for the next chapter for you.
Jonathan: Sure.
So I've been a member of
C 12 now for four years.
And I started while I was a Memphis
Athletic Ministries, I continued while
I was at phrase protection, and it was.
Incredible for me to be able to have a
a group of men and women who were peers.
They were in CEO seats, they
were leading businesses.
They were owners, and they
were trying to create.
What we've been talking about, great
businesses for a greater purpose.
And so when you have that group of
people that you can go to and go,
Hey, I'm having this issue in hr,
I'm having this issue in sales.
I'm having this issue with this
specific individual in my business.
And you can have some other wise council
that can point you in the right direction.
You can partner together and
build these businesses together.
There's just a ton more fuel on the fire.
We've heard it all the time that it
can sometimes be lonely at the top.
That is true.
It can be lonely at the top,
there's some realities that as a
owner or a CEO, you're carrying the
weight, you're carrying the risk.
You're carrying a lot of the decision
making burden and sometimes it's nice
to have someone you can share it with.
And so that's what we're creating
at C 12 is a peer advisory groups
that can of like-minded individuals
that can lean on each other.
Work together, support each other and
partner together to create not just a
single great business, but to create a
network of businesses that will leverage
each other's gifts, talents, expertise,
to be able to go a whole lot further.
And so I am, I'm now going into the role
of kind of a coach and mentor and sometime
just a facilitator of conversations.
So that these CEOs, owners and leaders
can all work together to one change
Memphis for the better change our city,
our region, our state, our nation.
And so C 12 is an international business.
We are in countries across the globe.
And so what if.
We had a, an incredible movement.
Again we're faith-based, and so if
we had an incredible movement for God
to work in all of these businesses
and therefore work in the lives of
employees and customers across our globe.
Steve: Yeah, man, that's, I love
that everything that you've done
has had some sort of a vision and
there's a deeper purpose to it.
And just having gotten to, know you over
the last year, I know that this is a.
This is a perfect fit for you and your
vision not only to help impact people,
but your desire to impact Memphis
the surrounding area and beyond.
So I'm excited to see, what happens
is you step into this new space, and I
know God's gonna be faithful in that.
And so if somebody's listening and
they're thinking, C 12 sounds really
fascinating I want to learn more.
How could they get in touch with you?
Jonathan: They can start by jumping
on our website c 12 memphis.com
and they can fill out
a little information.
I can reach out to 'em and we
can get the conversation going.
It's funny because as I look at going
into this new this new adventure,
I'm looking at our website, I'm
looking at our social media.
I'm looking at all the things
that I've talked with you in the
past, and I'm going, oh, man,
I've got a lot of work to do.
So, so we are, we're in the process of
evaluating everything trying to really
communicate clearly what our vision
is, what our strategy is, so that we
can gather as many CEOs and owners
and business leaders across the city.
So reach out to us@ctwelvememphis.com
and we will get in touch with you.
Steve: To clarify, that's
the letter C, not the word.
Yes.
Spelled out letter C.
Jonathan: And then 12 1 2.
So C 12 memphis.com.
Steve: Fantastic.
Torres, thank you so much
for joining me today.
I've loved, again, just hearing
your perspective on things and
as usual, I've got some good
takeaways from our conversation.
So thanks for being on here
and look forward to seeing.
Thank appreciate it.
Thanks.
Go.
Jonathan: We will talk more soon.
AnnieLaurie: Wow, that was rich.
I love how Torres kept circling
back to values, not just for
himself, but for his team.
It's rare to hear a CEO talk that openly
about leading from the inside out.
Steve: Absolutely.
What stood out to me is how
intentional he's been, whether in
business ministry or mentoring CEOs.
He's not chasing tactics.
He's working from a place of purpose.
And that's a great reminder for all of us.
Get your clarity first and then act.
AnnieLaurie: And I know we talk a lot
about strategy here, but what I heard
was alignment Torres kept coming back
to aligning vision, people in action.
And when all of that clicks,
marketing gets a whole lot simpler.
Steve: That's it.
When your team knows where you're
headed and why, and you have connection
with your values and purpose, then
marketing can finally start doing the
job that it's supposed to do because
it's really expressing what is already
true internally and honestly, that's
one of the reasons why we offer
marketing coaching here at way find.
AnnieLaurie: Steve, there was so
much to unpack in that conversation.
I wanted to dig a little deeper into a
few things that you and Torres touched on.
One thing is that y'all were talking
about how culture affects sales.
Can you unpack that a little
more for our listeners?
Steve: Absolutely.
One of the things that Torres
and I talked about is that
buyers want honesty.
They want honest answers to their
questions about pricing, about
problems, and so when a company's
culture is not focused on honesty
and openness and transparency, then
that translates into salespeople
who aren't going to be transparent
and open and honest with buyers.
And it's hard to convince a salesperson
that they need to be open and
answer those hard questions when
their culture doesn't support that.
But whereas when you have a culture.
Like what Torres was building that
is focused on educating the buyer
and answering their questions openly
and honestly, because that's what's
happening internally, then it becomes
much easier for the salesperson to
do that because they're not gonna
stay at that organization long if
they're not a good fit for the values.
That the company is built on, and
that translates in from the internal
experience into the customer experience.
AnnieLaurie: Would you say that also
helps you attract your ideal customers?
Steve: Yeah I think it does.
One of the things that we
talk to companies about is
building trust and credibility.
And one of the biggest ways to do that
is it's simple, but it's not always easy.
And that is create content that is
answering your buyer's questions.
Because we know that in today's
marketplace, buyers are actively
researching and they're using
AI to gather that information.
And they have tools and resources now
that allow them to get past all the bs.
So the companies that, aren't just
trying to give a sales pitch, but
legitimately trying to help their
buyers make the best decision.
Those are the ones that are gonna stand
out and build trust compared to the ones
that are trying to hide information or
make every negative seem like a positive.
AnnieLaurie: Steve, I noted in the
podcast how you mentioned salespeople
might bristle at the thought of
answering some specific types of
questions in a very open and honest way.
How would you coach somebody through that?
Steve: Yeah, that was definitely one of
the things that TOS and I talked about
and things that he and I talked about when
he and I had a coaching relationship and.
First let me say that I am a big
proponent of companies answering
buyer's questions openly and honestly.
Now we use a framework called endless
customers also people may be familiar
with that, is they ask an answer, and
the idea is that when people are asking
questions like about price and problems,
the best of comparisons, reviews, things
like that, we call it the big five.
They want honest answers.
I mean, think about it.
When you're the buyer,
do you want to be sold?
Do you want to get a sales
pitch, or do you want to get
good trustworthy information that
helps you make a better decision?
Well, of course you want honest answers
so that you can make the best decision.
So when A CEO is bought in on that,
they want to build a culture that is
built on honesty and transparency.
That doesn't mean you tell
the buyers everything.
But it does mean you don't
try to snowball them.
And so part of what to and I were
talking about was how does that work
when you are trying to build this
culture and you're creating content for
the website, you want your sales team
honestly answering people's questions.
Somebody asks about price again.
It doesn't mean you give them everything,
but you at least give them an answer.
You don't try to hide it.
So how do you address that when you
have a salesperson that's bristling
at that thought, at that idea?
And that's where it comes down to.
Part of it is coaching.
Ultimately what you're building out
here is the big question is does
this person's values align with the
company's values and the company values
integrity and honesty and openness.
This person just doesn't
have that value alignment.
It may be that it's eventually
you're getting rid of that person.
Now, before you get there,
there's a coaching opportunity.
There's an opportunity to dig in
and ask questions and try to un
uncover and understand what's the
resistance, what are they afraid of,
and sometimes it's helping a salesperson
reframe their perspective by putting
themselves in the buyer's perspective.
Because sometimes salespeople have
just been trained a certain way.
I've had these conversations with sales
teams of asking the simple question,
who's the better customer for you?
The customer who's educated and
they've been able to do the research
and they're well informed, or the
one that doesn't have a lot of
information, and who comes in uninformed?
Typically it's the educated buyer,
especially when they've been educated
on your content because they have, in
a lot of cases, qualified themselves.
But if you've held them at a distance,
you've kept information back.
How does that make you feel when you're
the one who's being kept in the dark?
You're asking about pricing.
'cause you don't even know if this is
in your budget, but they're telling
you, you have to go through these three
or four steps before you can even get
any idea what the pricing looks like.
Well, that's frustrating.
That doesn't build trust.
So again, it does come back to that
cultural alignment, that value alignment.
That means in some cases there's some
hard conversations, there's some coaching
opportunities, but in some cases,
ultimately it comes down to recognizing
maybe that person's not the right fit.
And then you go and you
find someone who is.
AnnieLaurie: I think he was talking
about too the mentality of building
partnerships with your customers
and how that can go a long way.
And I thought that was
really powerful too.
Steve: Absolutely, and I think
that it goes to mutual respect,
AnnieLaurie: right?
Steve: When the salesperson
simply sees, or a company simply
sees the customer as a number.
It's all about hitting the goals without
an emphasis on educating the buyers
so they can make the best decision.
You get more of it, you get more of
the customer frustration versus that
mutual respect, that partnership type
mindset where the company is genuinely
interested in helping the right
customers make the best decisions.
Those are the customers that are
gonna stick around a lot longer.
AnnieLaurie: Just to wrap this up,
I know that you and Torres talked a
good bit about the peer group that
he is leading now, and I know that
you are a part of a peer group.
Can you just talk a little bit about
the value of that and how that's
made an impact for you personally?
Steve: One of the loneliest.
Jobs is being a business owner or
a CEO variety of reasons for that.
And so being in a peer group is incredibly
valuable because there are decisions
that CEOs and owners need to make that
they can't talk to their teams about.
There are some things they could share
with their spouse but they might not
get the type of feedback that they
need to help them make that decision.
And so sometimes it's just nice knowing
that there are other people who are having
similar challenges, there's opportunity
to learn from other people's mistakes,
other people's wins, so I love the
fact that Torres is now taking really
what is his wiring to coach people and
he's getting to do that through C 12.
Hey, it's Steve and if any of
this conversation resonated
with you today, just know this.
You don't have to go it alone.
Here at Wayfind Marketing,
we offer marketing coaching
designed specifically for CEOs.
They're marketing leaders who want
clarity, alignment, and a real plan.
And Torres, who you heard from
today, I had the opportunity to work
with him and his team for almost
a year as their marketing coach.
And we've worked with leaders like
Torres who have spent months spinning
their wheels, or Torres's case
was a new CEO and was trying to do
more with the team that they had.
And once they had a strategy.
Things finally started to click.
So we help you simplify your marketing
focus on what's actually driving
results and building a strategy
and a marketing system that fits
your team and your growth goals.
AnnieLaurie: Thanks again to Torres
for such a powerful conversation,
and thanks to you for listening.
If you got value out of today's
episode, share it with the fellow CEO,
who, like Torres is working hard to
lead with more purpose and clarity.
And
Steve: And don't forget to
hit follow or subscribe so you
don't miss the next episode.
And depending on your podcast platform,
if you can leave a review, please do.
And we've got more real conversations and
strategy First insights coming your way.
AnnieLaurie: See you next time on
the Growth Minded Marketing podcast.