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Lieutenant Wayland Cubit leads FACT, an officer-led mentoring program for at-risk youth in OKC. Wayland shares incredible insight that will help you grow in becoming a powerful and purposeful mentor.
Show Notes
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WELCOME
You Can Mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others.
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SHOW NOTES
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. I'm so excited about our guest today. We have lieutenant Wayland Cubitt. How are you, sir?
Speaker 3:I'm doing fantastic. How are you today?
Speaker 2:I'm so good. I'm glad that you are jumping on the podcast. I've actually been listening to your podcast. And so, I am impressed by the interviews you've been having, and I wanna link to your podcast in our show notes so our people will listen to your interviews more than they listen to ours because, it's just I
Speaker 3:appreciate that.
Speaker 2:It's so encouraging seeing, the conversations you're having, but I want to even just jump in, right off the bat and ask you about who you are. What's your background?
Speaker 3:First of all, I'm in Oklahoma City. I'm a lifelong resident of Oklahoma City. I grew up here, went to school here, went to college in Oklahoma, but, you know, my college career Did
Speaker 2:you go to OU or did you go to Oklahoma State?
Speaker 3:Well, o OU and and OSU and here at listen. My my educational path is spotty at best. I mean, I am I've been all over the place. Education is important, but I guess I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3:I don't I just, it's just been a challenge. I have a lot of kids and a family and me and my wife have been married 27 years. We have 4 kids, but we've had 8, foster and adoptive kids, in those 27 years. So 12 kids have gone through our house altogether. Wow.
Speaker 3:And, so that the expense of college and working and taking care of kids, I I couldn't just stay at one place. It just god didn't have it that way. So Yeah. Wow. I've been everywhere.
Speaker 3:Everywhere. So It's awesome.
Speaker 2:So when it comes to the Red River Rivalry, all that stuff, where do you really lean toward?
Speaker 3:Oh, I'm sooner sooner sooner's all the way. I'm sooner's all the way. But we're not gonna let that interrupt our conversation. I love it.
Speaker 2:I don't think it will. I mean, honestly, I think it's perfect when it comes to when people get to know you more, they'll hear more about you bridging, bridging gaps between peoples. So, I'm I love hearing that. I, for 1, I'm from Perkins, and so Stillwater is just right down the road.
Speaker 3:Yeah. My
Speaker 2:whole family went to Oklahoma State. So I'm I'm gonna try and be peaceable, in this conversation.
Speaker 3:Well, the reality is, you know, you're we're we're Oklahoma fans, and we're only against at least I'm only against OSU when they play OU. Other than that,
Speaker 2:I am
Speaker 3:Cowboys all the way.
Speaker 2:I respect that. I respect
Speaker 3:that. Right. One time a year. I'm a hater. One time a year.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's awesome. Well, I said your name is lieutenant Wayland Cubitt. So, obviously, there's some law enforcement in your background. Can you kinda share a little bit about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I've been a police officer for 23 years. I started in 1996 at a small agency and, just kinda worked my way to the Oklahoma City Police Department, which is one of the largest, law enforcement agencies in our state. And I've doubled and dabbled a lot of different types of investigations over the years. So I did patrol.
Speaker 3:I did, field training. I did some training at the police academy, a little bit. Did some undercover work, which was probably one of my, favorite things to do.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And and moved into what I do now, which is in police and community relations. I do a youth outreach program that was created almost 12 years ago called fact, family awareness and community teamwork, which I think would fit all of what you do is it's all about mentoring and using police officers and our connection to the community to bridge the gap between law enforcement and youth in the inner city of Oklahoma City.
Speaker 2:Yes. You did hit it on the head. That is why we have you on the podcast, not because you're an undercover agent.
Speaker 3:No. No. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But I do wanna hear stories about that. That would be awesome.
Speaker 3:Sure. Sure.
Speaker 2:I'm I'm so glad that, we're getting to hear from your experience. And, obviously, bridging relationships in community is a huge part of mentoring, but that's also a huge part of policing and creating relationships within the community. And so I I want to kind of unpack that more as we talk. Okay. And, because I I feel like mentors, particularly the ones that are listening to our podcast who are focusing on kids who have a deficit of relationships, kids from hard places who who really need a male presence in their life to show them how to to live and overcome obstacles that our culture faces.
Speaker 2:And so I just know that officers are more heavily aware, of, the difficulties that our kids face, and so I'm excited to unpack that stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, some of the things that you you said I I I wanna just kinda touch on is that, you know, gaps in relationship are really because of perspective. Right? It's because we lack it. And, mentors are often sharing perspective.
Speaker 3:Right? Like that that our kids are not able to, have because they just don't have the experience, the life experience. And so we're just trying to share a little bit of perspective so they can make better decisions. And in in our program and what police officers do is is, you know, people in the community don't necessarily understand our perspective, And we don't communicate it very well often. And so but what I try to do is just share perspective from all the different hats I wear.
Speaker 3:And that is as a mentor, as a father, as a Christian, as a black man in America, and as a police officer that that is willing to put my life on the line for another person that I don't even know Yeah. For justice. And so all of those different hats, I feel like it's it's my duty to not just share the way I feel, but to share how I see it from all those different viewpoints.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Well, I'd I'd love if you even just as we start out the conversation, tell us about your mentors and the kids that they're mentoring. So you're leading FACT the FACT program in OKC. In my understanding is that it's it's an all officers program who are mentoring kids. Can you share more about that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. We have a whole unit dedicated to outreach and mentoring. So I have 4 full time officers, all sergeants that, work for me and a couple of part time, civilians that work for me that are all about mentoring. And most of our kids come from inner city schools, inner city neighborhoods, and you know that kind of comes with a whole host of of demographics. Primarily African American, primarily Hispanic, and mostly male but we have females also.
Speaker 3:And and so the what what we've learned as police officers doing our regular job that we signed up for is we go from crisis to crisis to crisis to crisis. We're not really catching people on their best day, and we don't really get to go beyond the crisis. We get to solve the problem, restore the peace, investigate the crime, detain or arrest the the perpetrators or suspects or whatever, and then we close that door and we go right back to another crisis. New faces, new people, but in a different crisis. And so if we're not careful, we we become, hardened.
Speaker 3:We begin to to, structure ourselves to deal with crisis after crisis after crisis so we don't really get to know the people behind the crisis or even the real reason behind the crisis. But when when these officers transfer into this unit, they're not necessarily dealing with the crisis every single day. They're dealing with the people behind the crisis. They're dealing with the kids, the parents of those kids, their loved ones, their teachers, their counselors, their coaches. And so when a crisis occurs, they see more than just the crisis.
Speaker 3:They saw what led up to the crisis. What what traumatic experiences might have come into that? What needs to be said? What did that person need at the moment? And at the same time, we know what the officer needs to restore the peace of the of the moment.
Speaker 3:And so, we it it's pretty it's pretty dynamic. It changes the way officers think and feel about their community when they get to know what led up to the yellow crime scene tape.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think that's a good I mean, just a a picture for mentors who maybe aren't officers. We all experience in some way or another the the challenge of understanding why kids do what they do and wanting to help our our mentors understand that there's always a reason why. And you have to bridge those perspectives like you mentioned and and understand the background, the story, the the reasons why. And particularly when it when you're an officer, it is critical to to be in a place where you're discerning those things because the environment you're in leads you just to, like like you said, just move from crisis to crisis to crisis and not see the person.
Speaker 2:You just see see the issues. And so can you can you kind of even unpack that a little more of, yeah, just how that influences your perspective of the importance of a mentor's perspective in in the work that they're doing and and understanding the the why behind, the issues that their kids are facing?
Speaker 3:For us, in doing this work over time, and it doesn't take long for officers to to realize this, is that, we are all becoming a more trauma informed community. Right? But but officers themselves are becoming trauma informed responders, I guess you were saying, in this unit. Yeah. And and what I try to make them understand is that, yes, we we understand that little Jimmy and Janie have had this bad experience, and they live in these conditions.
Speaker 3:But and and that is traumatic for them. But trauma doesn't have to equal a bad life. Right? With the right connection, with the right person, trauma actually equals purpose. And we can and what if we're the right person?
Speaker 3:What if we can be the introduction to the right person? What what what we can't assume that there's a positive caring adult when they get home, but we can guarantee there's a positive caring adult when they're with us. And we should be able to do that. And so those connections, those relationships can ensure that even in the presence of trauma, it doesn't have to equal a bad outcome for your life. It can actually equal your purpose in your life.
Speaker 2:That's so good. And as a mentor, there is something that you can control in in this story, in the storyline of these kids. You can get overwhelmed with all of the external factors and the issues that they're facing and the things that they're doing or provoked to do because of their environment, but, really, you have a great influence. And I I would say even as a as a police officer, you probably feel a responsibility, as people are facing these issues. But can you talk about the responsibility of a mentor?
Speaker 2:How do you engage that place of in in a mentor's heart of, like, man, this is something I'm called to engage in and, continually bring your officers or the the guys that you're investing in back to that place of this is why we do what we do.
Speaker 3:Right. So it's it's kinda easy to transfer, to to talk to my officers as mentors because I can always say, listen. We have a term that when you get in your car and you got your uniform on and you just got your assignment for the day and you get in your car, you hit that button on your computer and it says you're 10:8. And 10:8 means you're in service. In service.
Speaker 3:And so whatever call comes up on your screen assigned to you, you are in service. I'll take the call. Wow. Dark places, silly calls, dangerous calls, ones where I don't necessarily know if I'm equipped or not. Whatever it is, I've signed up to be in service to that call.
Speaker 3:Whatever it is. And I don't leave until it's done. Until it's done. So now we're saying, hey. You don't have that computer in your car anymore, but you are in service.
Speaker 3:You are in service. You're 10.8. So when a kid comes here and says, I need a mentor. I want a mentor. There's there's there's a list of p's that I that I tell these these officers we have to do.
Speaker 3:We have to pursue them. We have to be proximate. We have to play with them. We have to be passionate. We have to be powerful.
Speaker 3:We have to plant and we have to be purposeful. And all of those things, and I can describe all of those, what I mean by those, but because they're not really abundantly clear. But we're 10:8, meaning we're gonna we're going to serve them till the the call is over. And guess what? When you're a mentor with in my heart, it ain't over ever.
Speaker 3:They go to prison, it ain't over. You gotta write letters. You gotta accept phone calls. They graduate from college. They gotta be there.
Speaker 3:They play in a football game. You gotta celebrate their wins, and you gotta suffer with them compassion when they lose. The this is different than just being a police officer because she can hit it. I'm done, and go to the next call, but you it's not the next kid. You're not you're not ever done.
Speaker 2:Wow. That's so good. Well, yeah, I do want you to go through and unpack those kind of values that that you say are are influencing the way your officers are viewing these mentor relationships.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And the the content of those relationships. Because I I I think that if, a mentor joins us, they know that we're not really about business development even though that might happen if one of our guys is, like, a hedge fund manager.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Like, their their kid might pick up some tips and tricks about the stock market
Speaker 3:Right. Right.
Speaker 2:Just based off their relationship, but that's not the point. The point is relationship is giving them attention, affirmation, affection, those kind of things. So what what values do you guys pronounce more in your program and and keep your mentors on track as as far as what you're wanting them to give to the kids that they're serving?
Speaker 3:Recently, we had a we had what appeared to be a failure in one of our mentees. He just, we just were disappointed in how things turned out, and one of our officers was putting in a lot of time, a lot of extra effort, and energy. And when that had turned out, of course, there was, a let down, some sorrow in in in the officer because of, the energy time and love that they put into this one particular kid. And I saw I I sent them an email that said, basically, let's go down our list. Let's go down our list of things that we, want to do.
Speaker 3:And if we did all of those, let let's just hang back and wait because they will return because we've done the things. And what did you pursue them? Did they figure out did you figure out ways to show them that you wanted a relationship with them? How many different ways can you say, I want you around me. I wanna be around you.
Speaker 3:I wanna see what becomes of you. I'm excited about having this relationship. Did you do that? Well, yes, you did. Otherwise, they wouldn't have been around as much as they were.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Were you proximate? Like, you want to be close. You wanna be a witness to their growth. You don't wanna just hear about what they did.
Speaker 3:You wanna see about it. And you wanna witness them fail, you wanna see them lose, and you wanna see them face challenges. You don't want it to just be easy for them. You wanna see how they respond to it. So and the only way to do that is to be close.
Speaker 2:You gotta be there.
Speaker 3:You gotta be there. Did you play with them? Like, did you make it fun whenever you possible? Did you laugh? Did you put yourself in silly situations?
Speaker 3:Did you dance? Did you sing along to their videos and try to figure out what songs they'll listen? Did you play video games? Right? Did you do that kind of stuff?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, when they say, all police officers are bad. Well, I know a police officer that that dances funny or that doesn't know how to play 2 k or is very good at 2 k or whatever the case may be. Play. Be real.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's good.
Speaker 3:Right? Be real. Let your guard down. And police officers is a pretty big thing because, you know, we have weapons on us all the time, and we're always guarded, and we're always washing our back. And so we, you know, we have to figure out kinda let that down a little bit and play with them.
Speaker 3:When I say be passionate, were you passionate? I want you to be over the top when talking about the positive things you see in them. Go over the top. Like, they're smiling. Hey.
Speaker 3:That's a good smile. No. Man, look at your smile, man. You just you just made my day with the way you just kinda came in the room. Wow.
Speaker 3:It seems a little over the top, but I think we need to be pass but but it they deserve it. Yeah. Right? We don't know where they just came from. We don't know what environment they just came from, what they just dealt with last night.
Speaker 3:Be passionate about everything we see positive in them. Everything. Find a way to make, to be positive about the things that they do.
Speaker 2:Well, it sound it sounds like all of those things are connected to a need or a deficit that they've experienced. And so even going over the top, they probably get a lot of over the top feedback that's that's more critical
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Not not over the top feedback that's encouraging. And And
Speaker 3:and here's the deal. I may have to hold them accountable, like, in just 10 minutes, in just 5 minutes. I may have to highlight something a little negative. But one thing I can tell you is that it ain't gonna be all negative. This whole encounter will not be all negative.
Speaker 2:It's really good.
Speaker 3:It will not be all negative. Which is why I say be powerful. I tell them to be powerful. Don't don't don't don't fall so in love with your, friendship that you can't be an adult. Might be hold them accountable.
Speaker 3:Always tell them the truth even when it upsets them.
Speaker 2:Can you share more practicals on on how how a mentor can be powerful but not overstep and get into a place where the the mentor or the the mentee might start seeing the mentor as this, heavy handed authority figure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right. You don't have a whole lot of consequences that you can hold down, that you can you can throw out, but you can definitely say, man, I I know you have better in you than that. And and I've hanging my hat on the better part of you. Now I'm not saying that you have to be perfect, but we've had some time together where I know you make better decisions than that.
Speaker 3:And I expect that out of you.
Speaker 2:That's really good.
Speaker 3:Right? They they here's the thing. When they're bought into this relationship, they will disappoint us. They will. They just don't want to.
Speaker 3:They just don't want to. And when they do, we need to tell them that they did.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:The consequences don't have to be so heavy. Sometimes consequences the the natural consequences of life are enough. Right? You you didn't come in till late, whatever, and it caused you to wake up, late and miss the bus, and therefore, you didn't get a chance to participate in in the basketball game that weekend. Man, I'm sorry that you didn't get to participate, but that's the consequence.
Speaker 3:I would expect that you would come home earlier than that. We've talked about this. This is the decision that you made that me and you talked about staying up late playing 2 k. Now I'm disappointed. I'm disappointed in the way you handled that situation.
Speaker 3:I expect you to do better tomorrow or next week. But I don't have to do the consequence. The consequence is not playing in the game. I don't create that.
Speaker 2:It's so good, man. So good. Well, now I feel like some mentors, they feel like that's that's something that they avoid, and they're just always positive and encouraging, but you don't know how helpful it is to create a level of discipline in in their life. And we're not we're not their parents. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But God disciplines those he loves. And Yeah. If if we if we can't figure out how to do that in a healthy way, how are we creating an environment where they're seeing the father's love in a way that they haven't before. And I I think ultimately, I I guess, even more particularly in your situation, the kids that you're serving probably are getting feedback when it's way too late. Right.
Speaker 2:When they Yeah. When they've crossed a boundary that
Speaker 3:is that is
Speaker 2:like a legal boundary, not just a, okay. You messed up, but, like, here's a redirect.
Speaker 3:Steven, look at this. So I worked undercover for a while, and so I did a lot of gang investigations. And, it wouldn't shock you to know that even a gang member who does not follow through on the customary rules of their particular gang set or whatever, they are held accountable. Mhmm. Their big homie holds them accountable.
Speaker 3:Why then would me, a loving mentor, not do at least as give them as least as much love as the big homie and hold them accountable? There are consequences, and you know what they say? Why why did you join the game? They say because they showed me love, but they beat you up. Yeah, but because I did this thing wrong, or I did this I didn't do what they beat you up and you call that love.
Speaker 3:Well, they were holding me accountable is what they were doing. Oh. Oh. So if I show you real love and show you real accountability, can I get that same kind of loyalty?
Speaker 2:Wow. And so they're they're they're receiving accountability, but they're receiving it from the the worst negative
Speaker 3:The worst. Yes. Yes. Yes. I don't think we ought to let the criminal dysfunctional mind outdo us who are really trying to do the positive things and get the positive outcomes out of our community.
Speaker 2:Wow. And so I'm sometimes I hear people that that feel like their relationship suffers when they hold people accountable. But do you think that's more of just an emotion that we bring into the situation?
Speaker 3:Oh, man. Man, how many how many how often does a mentee go, like, I can tell they're annoyed because I said what I said, and I don't get a text back for a little while, or or hey. It is what it is. I ain't going anywhere. Here's the thing.
Speaker 3:I want you to know is that I love you, and there ain't nothing you can do about it. That you can mess up all you want to. You can screw up all you want to, but I'm going to be consistent. I'm gonna be powerful, period. And you can always find me.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. That's so good. I'd I'd love for all of our mentors to to consistently say that with words and actions in in the lives of the kids that they serve because that's huge. So huge.
Speaker 3:And I
Speaker 2:I love how empowering you are in in just saying to your mentors, hey. I want you to be powerful in this relationship. We're not just walking through the motions. Mm-mm. But but we're a key relationship in this kid's life.
Speaker 3:They need somebody who is strong, consistent, and structured. How many times have I had a a mentee call me and said, you know, I didn't wanna I I'm a go ahead and tell you now, in case they call you. But me and the teacher got into it today. And I know you would I know you're gonna be upset with me, but this is why I did what I did. And then we get to talk about it.
Speaker 3:80% of the time, those people never call me. They're telling on themselves. Why are they telling on themselves? It's because they know for sure I wanna talk about their wins and their losses. I've proven it to them over and over and over again.
Speaker 3:Now they're bringing me the trouble. I don't have to look for it.
Speaker 2:Wow. It's so good. And and it sounds like part of that is is coming from you as a father, but I I wonder if you could share more about what it means to be a black father in the current climate of American culture, even particularly in Oklahoma, in the south. But do you do you think that there's something about your your context that you live in as well as your experience being a father who's black that equips you to to kind of live in that space of really being a powerful father. And, could you unpack that kind of because I I know that that feeds into your officer mentality as well.
Speaker 2:Well,
Speaker 3:you know, that it it's a it's a it's a good question, and and I'm also gonna go out a limb and say it's also a bad question. And and the reason I say it's good and bad is that I understand many people might have that question about black fatherhood. But here's the here's the thing as I unpack fatherhood, period. I don't care where you are in the world. Every father every father wants to be held in high esteem to their children, will be held high esteem and respected in their community, and they want to care and love for their kids the best way possible.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I don't care I don't care where they are. I don't I I mean, I don't care what color they are. What what has happened is what happens is we've had, in this country, fatherlessness that has hidden one community pretty hard and most of the time we would subscribe that as a choice uh-uh amongst fathers and we never look to unpack why might that be a viable choice. Property, incarceration, racism, lack of opportunity. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Just kind of a a historical long term systematic way of living that made it more difficult for fathers to be what they wanna be for their kids. Yeah. Right? And then throw in all of the trauma that comes with that and lack of responding to it, lack of, role models, those type of things. And we end up with a with a vision of fatherlessness in one community that's not any different than any other community.
Speaker 3:So I say it's a good question, but but you you know the answer. It's the what you mean, if we just look at fathers in general, what's in their heart, it's the same for everybody.
Speaker 2:That's really good, man. When it comes to race, kids from a minority background can be held to a different standard. As a white guy, I'm interested in in hearing more about, I guess, that that perspective and what, what you would say to a a mentor who, is trying to figure out how to mentor within that space.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So in other words and I and I let me make sure I got the question right. So how does a white guy or white lady mentor inner city, black kids or cross cultural mentoring? Yeah. So absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So first, I've been doing this so long now that I know that kids do not really care. They just care that you care. Right? Wow.
Speaker 3:It is a very quick, immediate obstacle. Like, uh-oh. Here comes this white guy in my black world. And but the second that you saw that you pursue them, the second that you say, that that you see that you want to be in a relationship with them, that color thing goes away. And especially with kids in hard places.
Speaker 3:I've been in a lot of life death situations as an officer and in places where they absolutely distrust and dislike the police. But guess what? When they're pinned in a car, they don't care who's throwing them the rope. They just want out the car. You care enough to bring me help.
Speaker 3:If I'm drowning, I don't care who pulls me out of the water. I just care that they care enough to pull me out of the water.
Speaker 2:That's so good.
Speaker 3:Right? And so so let's not let let's not put overemphasis on the cross cultural difference here. Let's just see. Can you care for somebody from a different background? And here's how you care better for them.
Speaker 3:I would say mentors that are are diving into cross cultural, relationships need to educate themselves on what makes that culture the way it is. Don't assume that you've been given the right historical context in high school and in college. You're gonna have to be intentional and go out and read some stuff. You're gonna go out and and kinda figure some stuff out because we have all been kinda duped in why our relationships look the way they do in in America. And so people that really wanna get it right have to be intentional about learning about who it is they're dealing with.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And and and that's just so that you don't make unintentional mistakes. Mhmm. You just won't you don't there's gonna be some mistakes, and they're gonna be unintentional, but you can reduce them by just educating yourself in the culture. Black history is just not February.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's every day. It's American history.
Speaker 2:That's so good. So what resources do you give your your mentors, your officers when when they express interest in in diving deeper? Do you have any resources you consistently point to?
Speaker 3:Well, you know what? One of the things recently, that we've done, we were we went to the National Mentoring Conference in DC last year. We presented what we do at the FACT program there. But during the 1st day at the conference, my entire unit, we went to the African American History, Museum there in DC. And we spent 5 hours going through it together.
Speaker 3:And we sat around afterwards at lunch and had very candid open conversations about what we saw and how it made us feel. And we have women and white men and Hispanic guy and and black guy, and we saw it was it was a small, very mixed culture group that just that experience has led them into their own educational experience. They're reading all kinds of things. They're on different kinds of podcast, and their relationships has deepened with some of their kids because they know, there's obstacles out there that we didn't necessarily see as obstacles as, from from where we come from. And we wanna do our best to help them navigate the obstacles because we can't necessarily remove them, but we can help them navigate it.
Speaker 3:So I I don't I mean, there's there's so many resources, books and stuff that I'm that I'm that I that I read. I don't I don't even know if I could land on just one. But A lot
Speaker 2:of our mentors at 4 Runner, we require them to be involved with a church community. And could you share about mentoring within the church? Do you have any experience in in kind of bridging those those kind of communities? Because it it seems like really a lot of the work that you do is bridging, relational gaps within community, whether that's youth in the city with officers. What what does it look like to engage the church to be a be about mentoring, to be about bridging these relational gaps and investing in the community.
Speaker 2:Do you have any any thoughts on how to engage the church?
Speaker 3:Yes. I I kinda go a long way around in in this in this filling of the gap is that much of what we have to do now is such hard work, when we talk about what we have done to create trauma in our communities and now what it's gonna take to clean up or respond to the trauma that we ourselves have created. Right? And I don't know any other way. It's too big.
Speaker 3:When I think about that, it's like, it's it's too big. I don't even know where to start. Well, we have a father that says, I I can do this. I'm I'm good at this. You just have to bring it to me.
Speaker 3:So the I think the church is our only answer, our only way of dealing with the gaps in our relationships. So I think it so so mentoring actually should start there, but but here's the challenge. Here's the challenge. Our church has not our church, the big c, has not done a really, really good job on the race issue. We just haven't done a good job.
Speaker 3:We kinda just kinda stayed away from it. And there's all kind of reasons people can give you I mean, depending on who you ask, they'll give you a reason why. But but but that that day is over. That that day is over. And now, we I have to seek relationship with one another.
Speaker 3:And when we seek relationship with one another, we see each other's kids as our own. Yeah. And that is the birth of mentorship. Listen. When mothers and fathers fail, community has to pick up because they're gonna fail.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. And the community is the big c. Right? That's church. And so we're gonna have to tackle we're gonna have to tackle the race issue, and we're gonna have to start look.
Speaker 3:Heaven is not gonna look like most of our churches on Sunday morning, so we might as well start practicing now.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so good. Yeah. And I I feel like what you're kinda hitting at, which you said it at the beginning, of that there is a level of responsibility that a mentor takes on when you're you're wanting to become an influence within the community. You don't just see the issue, but you take responsibility for it in in some measure on your person of saying, you know what? Mhmm.
Speaker 2:This issue came from a place in our community, and there's a level of
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like, that's on me. And and that that takes humility. Ultimately, that's the heart of Jesus is he shows up and he says, I'm taking responsibility for
Speaker 3:For this.
Speaker 2:The stuff that's going on, and I'm taking I'm I'm bringing justice. Not just taking responsibility, but I'm bringing justice. And I I think that that is that's a huge part of of what a mentor is choosing to do. Not just, oh, I'm coming to help, but I'm taking responsibility.
Speaker 3:It's a difference in the way you respond. Right? Officers say this is my crime scene. He didn't do the crime. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It takes responsibility for the crime scene. Like, I'm controlling in access to it. 1 of the one of the times I remember, walking by my dad had this that lazy boy that everybody has, but he said it all the time. And I walk in the room and out of the room and out the room and in the room. And he finally stops me and he's upset.
Speaker 3:And he said, how many times are you gonna walk over that piece of paper? Well, you talk about that, that piece of paper that you keep walking over. It's trash. Pick it up and throw it in the trash. I said, well, I didn't lay it down there.
Speaker 3:He said, I didn't ask you who laid it down there. It is a mess in your living room that you keep ignoring. He says, I don't wanna watch you walk over that mess one more time. You pick it up. I don't care who messed it up.
Speaker 3:You see that it's not right. Fix it. Wow. It's your living room. And I'm saying just what you're saying is that we we we don't we can't know exactly who made the mess or why it is the way it is.
Speaker 3:We know it's not the way we want it to be. Mhmm. So I wanna fix it. I'm responsible for the mess because I recognize it and I'm walking over it. That makes me now responsible.
Speaker 2:Wow. I just let I love that, and I think that when when mentors take responsibility and then give responsibility to
Speaker 3:And give responsibility. Yes.
Speaker 2:That's so huge. And and so when we do that, we give them an example and model that for them, and, that's yeah. That's so good, man. Lieutenant Wayland, I wanna ask you about, yeah, just some stories from FACT the FACT program and, any any stories that you think would embody a practical way for our mentors to grow in mentoring, any success stories or even failure stories that you think we should learn from, Anything you think would help.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. You know, there's so many. I'm just I'm just grasping. You know, we have tons of success stories, from the various programs that that we do.
Speaker 3:But but I guess if I was gonna talk about one of the p's that we discussed in our unit is are you being purposeful in in these relationships? And what I'm saying is, are you looking for teachable moments? Constantly looking for teachable moments. Stories to tell, moments to capture, movies, games you play, sports failures, whatever they might be. There there was a there was an incident a a few years ago with a kid that, I spent a lot of time with.
Speaker 3:Picked him up after school. He would just hang out till we till we have our our group activities at our center. And there was this Gatorade that had been sitting in my office for a week. I I knew some kid left it or forgot it. I didn't know which kid, but, my kid, Kendrick, he he came in and he said hey, LT, whose Gatorade is that?
Speaker 3:And I'm like I don't I'm not sure and he picked it up and he walked into the main room of the center and I assume he asked the other kids upstairs nobody claimed it so when he came back to my office he was drinking the cake or egg no no problem okay I guess he just assumed it was his well not even a week later somebody had ate his cheetos A bag of Cheetos that he left sitting where he was sitting, and he came back and somebody got egged. And he went nuts. I mean, almost to the point where we had to throw him out. Right? And so I finally took the 30, 40 minutes it took to calm him down.
Speaker 3:He was about ready to fight everybody in there because he hates thieves. He hates liars, you know, you know, all this stuff. I said, okay. Let me let me take you home. And so I'm driving him home, and I said, hey, Kendrick.
Speaker 3:Remember that Gatorade 2 weeks ago? He said, yeah. What about it? Whose was it? I don't know.
Speaker 3:I asked everybody. Well, how do you know everybody didn't ask who those Cheetos were when you weren't in the room? But but but I no. But no. But what makes you any different drinking that Gatorade than the guy that ate your Cheetos?
Speaker 3:So you were ready to fight and you hate liars and you hate all that kind of stuff. Don't ever hold somebody to a standard you're not willing to uphold yourself. Wow. Now Kendrick now has graduated high school, and he's, he's working for, like, American Airlines or something in, down in the south. He's moved away from Oklahoma.
Speaker 3:And he called me from time to time. And only reason I mentioned this is because he he mentioned that as a teachable moment for him. I haven't gotten all about it, But they're gonna give us they're gonna give us opportunities to teach them if we have experiences with them. Right? And so I'm constantly looking for teachable moments, and I think mentors ought to constantly be looking for teachable moments.
Speaker 2:It's really good.
Speaker 3:For for our mentors, for our mentees.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Don't miss it.
Speaker 2:And your encouragement for them to be powerful, be purposeful, it creates a just a motivation in a disposition for teachable moments. It it sets your mentors up to think in that way of, you know what? I am thinking about 10 years down the road, is he gonna remember this moment? And how I'm
Speaker 3:how I
Speaker 2:made him feel and what what tool I gave to him and how I spoke to him and how I looked at him and how much I cared for him. Because I I feel like something that we always talk about on this podcast is it's not just about what you teach, but it's how you made them feel. And and for a mentor to to be powerful, but also to be fun and loving and, caring, I think, is is huge. And you don't know how many dividends come from those little things that they'll remember and call you 10 years later and tell you about.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. The the those are the best phone calls when they are calling to remind you of a lesson they learned that you wouldn't necessarily even, you know, trying to to to teach. Yeah. But they they pick it up. Yeah.
Speaker 3:They pick it up. It was it was, one time, one of the kids came in, and I asked him why he did this certain thing. And he said, I just wasn't thinking. I just wasn't thinking. I just wasn't thinking.
Speaker 3:But this was like the 3rd or 4th time, and this is was his go to response. I just wasn't thinking. Yeah. And I said I said, do me a favor. Go outside and find me a rock about so big, kind of flat.
Speaker 3:Like, you wanna skip it off some water or something. He says what? I said, just go do it. Hurry. Hurry.
Speaker 3:Hurry. And and he goes in and and does it. And, and when he brings it back, I give him a magic marker or Sharpie. And I said, write think on the on the on one side of it and flip it over and write first on the backside of it. And he and he does.
Speaker 3:So okay. You want me to think first? So yeah. Now put the rockinger in your pocket. And I said, do not let me see you, and you don't have that rock in your pocket.
Speaker 3:I want it in your pocket. He says, come on. Don't make me carry it. I said, you don't have to, but I would be disappointed if you don't have that rock in your pocket next time I see you. And, so he's carrying around this rock all the time.
Speaker 3:And the next week, when I when I when I see him, I said, where's your rock? And he pulls this rock out of his pocket. And I said what what did that rock do for you all week he said well it annoyed me the whole time I could never stop thinking about it because it was always heavy in my pocket I said right right you never even had to pull it out before you thought about your actions. Right? Mhmm.
Speaker 3:He said, yeah. I had a I had a good week of I had a good week of decision making this time. Why? Because I was thinking first. Wow.
Speaker 3:Now he calls me and tells me he still has the rock.
Speaker 2:Come on.
Speaker 3:He says he still has The Rock. He said that he found The Rock in one of his old backpacks. I'm like, this is crazy. This is crazy. I thought you would have long thrown that away after I made the point.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. Wow. I love that. And, I mean, even just what I'm hearing is that you're creating lifelong memories with with the kids that you're investing in. And that that's a responsibility particularly when you're mentoring kids from hard places that you're creating memories that are attached to a relationship, not just, you know, going out to 6 flags or having some experience, but a positive memory that stays with them for a lifetime that's connected to a relationship.
Speaker 2:And even some of those things, it kind of sounds like a mentor has the the power to kind of create these moments that are in a way reflected in their past as their right of passage as a man or a woman in into their adulthood that that sticks with them. And I think that's that's so powerful, man.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You don't know you don't know. I haven't you have no idea what you're gonna say or do that's gonna be that one thing that takes them to the to the over the top that that makes it click. I remember, going to hear this speaker, before, and I was and I was also excited about this speaker, and I got my notes out. And this speaker started talking about coming to this, to Oklahoma not knowing English and being so intimidated by being in the 6th grade and and trying to learn English, and and function in the classroom.
Speaker 3:And he said, I was in this class, and this teacher really, really, really liked me. I could just tell. And so but I was really shy, and I and I was really kinda concerned about the way I spoke. And so I had to go to the bathroom, and I held my hand up while she was teaching, and she calls over to me and says, what is it you need? And he said I guess kinda shyly said, ask if I could go to the to the bathroom.
Speaker 3:And she goes, I don't I'm not sure what you said. So she went on teaching. I held my hand up again because I really needed to go to the bathroom. And, she called me again, and I whispered and said something. She says, come come here.
Speaker 3:I don't know what you're saying. And she went on teaching, and she finally gets down in my face, and she says, what is it you're trying to tell me? And I tell her that, I just needed to go to the bathroom. And she's he says, I will never forget what she did. She put her hand on my shoulder, and she said, you know your voice is important.
Speaker 3:We really need to hear your voice. Mhmm. He goes to the bathroom, and he says, from that day forth, I was more outspoken. I was more assertive. It changed everything.
Speaker 3:I now leave my own nonprofit. I'm a bit all this kind of stuff, and he says, it was that moment when she said my voice needs to be heard. Now I looked down at my notes after this thing, and I and all I had written down was, is that it? Is that it? Be because I was trying to figure out what was so cool about your voice needs to be heard.
Speaker 3:For me, it was nothing. It moved me not a not a little bit. But for him, it was everything. Right? And so I tell the kids, when we have everything.
Speaker 3:Right? And so I tell the kids when we have speakers come in, I said, you don't know when or what somebody's gonna say that's gonna take you to your purpose. Don't miss it. And as mentors, we have no idea what we're gonna say next is gonna be the thing that catapults them to purpose or prison.
Speaker 2:Wow. Say that again.
Speaker 3:Yeah. We have no idea what what we're gonna do is gonna gonna gonna take them to purpose, or let me say it this way or keep them out of prison. Wow. Right? Wow.
Speaker 3:So so just just know that every encounter has the potential of changing the trajectory of their life for the positive for good. Now that's the responsibility. Right? That's that's a that put some weight on my job as a mentor. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Like, they're gonna look back and say, that's the guy that said your voice matters. That's the lady that said, God, Leah, your smile can can move a room. That's the guy that believed in me. That's the guy that fit me. That's the guy that that that introduced me to the person that now I work for.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. I had no idea that I was capable of doing this until that person said that.
Speaker 2:And that that I mean, it's a weight, but that's the weight you need to stay on purpose in your mentor relationship.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. Oh, man. Every day?
Speaker 2:To see the potential of every moment. Anytime your kid, someone takes his talkies, this is the moment. This is the moment that could change his life. Like, and I I just think that that flips the script in the the mind of a mentor, which which we believe that that's one of the primary places where mentor relationships fail is when a mentor is not engaged in purpose, is not engaged in in thinking about the potential of every connect that they have with the kid that they're serving. And that's just so good.
Speaker 2:Lieutenant Weyland, I I think that is practical that will stick with our mentors forever. We don't know whether the next conversation we have with our kid is leading them to purpose or to prison. That's powerful.
Speaker 3:Yep. Like and I don't take it for granted. Like, I know, like, I I want this responsibility of being the one that connects you to your purpose. I want it. I want it.
Speaker 3:I'm not running from it. Let's do this.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for speaking into our mentors. And and also I, I wanna hit on the fact that you're too humble about when I set you up to point people to your podcast, to, to grow and understanding what it looks like to engage race relations and have those conversations. If you're listening to this podcast right now, you need to stop. You need to go listen to United Voice Oklahoma where lieutenant Whelan has conversations, great interviews that promote, healthy doll dialogue on race relations with C CC Jones Davis. And, I just listened to your interview with, Bill City, the former chief of police in OKC, an incredible interview.
Speaker 2:And so if you listen to one thing on their podcast, please go listen to that one. Do you have anything that's coming up that they should look out for?
Speaker 3:There's one in particular with a local sheriff here in Oklahoma. It is so dynamic. I mean, I can't wait for it to listen to that one myself because it was such a good conversation. They're I'm just learning a whole lot, so I appreciate you listening and and pointing people in that direction. It is a it's a worthy conversation for us to have about race.
Speaker 3:You know, it is the elephant in the room, but unless we start talking about the elephant, we can't even begin the taming. So, we're just gonna have some good conversations about race and and doing it in a positive way and not at the not in a divisive way.
Speaker 2:It's awesome. Well, there there is so much power on that podcast, so please check it out. United Voice Oklahoma. Lieutenant Whelan, is there any other way our listeners can connect with you? How can they reach out to you if they have any questions or wanna wanna reach out to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I did a a TED Talk. You can find that TED Talk on YouTube, but whelan cubit.com is is available. So send me emails and reach out to me that way. I'm also at the Oklahoma City Police Department.
Speaker 3:I'm an active police officer, so you can email me at wayland.cubid@okc.gov. Any kind of way that that people wanna reach out to me, and and and I'm here to serve. I am 108.
Speaker 2:Come on. 108. Come on. I I think all of our mentors are gonna start saying that, so that's awesome. Love it.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you so much for investing in us as mentors, and we really appreciate you, Lieutenant Whelan.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me on. I appreciate the invite.