Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Speaker 17: Tryna walk the walk.
Truth on the mic, no shame
here, just real talk.
Came from the outside, never fit in.
Now we tell the story
and the healing begins.
No front, no mask, just telling the truth.
Keep it real, keep it raw,
speaking straight from the booth.
If you feeling like an
outsider, this one's for you.
Uh.
Yeah
Sam and Chris: Welcome to another
episode of Unashamed Unafraid.
Unashamed of sexual addiction
recovery and unafraid of
coming unto Christ for healing.
What up, everybody?
What up, people?
Oh, I was gonna say, "What up,
Sam," but we also have people
that are listening to the podcast.
Yeah.
So, I wish we could have a live audience.
That'd be kind of fun to do sometime.
One day.
One day.
We are gonna do a live
audience, so it'll be cool.
You know, we've actually
talked about that.
Someday we wanna do an Unashamed Unafraid
conference, kinda like- Yep ⦠UCAP,
Utah Coalition Against Pornography.
When we're that big, we're gonna have
an Unashamed Unafraid conference.
We, We need everybody's help to help
us get there- ⦠which means you've
gotta share this with five people.
, So go and share this podcast with
five people and say, "Listen to this,"
because it's gonna change your life.
Yep.
I mean, th- these episodes, we hear it all
the time, over and over and over again.
The emails that we get, the text messages
that we get, the people that we run into
at Warrior Heart, people say, "Guys,
I can't stop listening to your podcast.
It is life-changing for me."
I'm glad we changed a couple
things, 'cause our audio's a lot
better than where we were at now.
Y- you know what?
I don't think people really care that much
about the audio apparently, 'cause your
episode is the most listened to episode
all time on Unashamed Unafraid, so.
There we go.
You know what?
Maybe, maybe the old
ones were the good ones.
, I've had a lot of people reach
out and say, " "Hey, look, we
need someone who knows a little
bit about working with teens."
did a little research, asked around,
and, uh, was able to find Reuben.
Reuben Ayton.
Who he's done a lot of work with teens.
He's got his own recovery story, and
he's, you know, willing to share that.
So we're we're gonna get a two for one.
So welcome, Ruben.
Thanks for being on here with us.
I think you're, you're filling a,
you're filling a very, needed gap in,
in the Unashamed and Afraid, literature,
. Reuben Aiton: Yeah, so I'm Reuben Aten.
I, The founder of Arise N Heal Recovery,
and, have working in the addiction
recovery world for over 11 years.
Started out as an engineer,
believe it or not,
Sam and Chris: Mm-hmm.
Reuben Aiton: Did not ever imagine
myself getting into coaching, mentoring,
and particularly addiction recovery.
But, really got led into this work,
through my own struggles with pornography,
and then my, experiences that my wife
had had, with her, former husband
with pornography that he struggled
with, and her desire to really find
something that was a more lasting
solution to help our children to
different experience around pornography.
And that, you know, as we, uh, she and
I had been really interested in getting
into coaching about 12 years ago, jumped
in headfirst, and really a lot of work
to develop ourselves as coaches, and we
just felt this huge gap of somehow just we
don't feel like we're in the right place.
And, we went to a fireside that
was totally random, on addiction
recovery, and we were introduced
to, some individuals who justâ¦
We just thought, "Wow, this
is the work we wanna do."
And so we really dove headfirst into
that work, and, contributed a lot to,
you know, the work that others were
doing before we started our own work,
and, really had an opportunity to,
in that process, work with a lot of
different people, a lot of different ages.
And I'll tell you, when I first
started this work, young men were
not my favorite thing to work with.
it was really hard to work with young men.
I mean, I could go with a older man,
and he knew what he was fighting for.
He knew what he was up against.
He was about to lose his family.
He's about to lose everything
that he cares about.
And man, they were motivated.
You know, these guys would get
in, jump in, and do the work.
And then you get a young man, and he's
not sure what he's fighting for yet.
doesn't have something necessarily
Sam and Chris: He doesn't have purpose yet
Reuben Aiton: Exactly.
And at, at best, he's like, "Yeah,
I think I wanna go on a mission, and
ooh, this is kind of in the way."
And,
Sam and Chris: me here, come here because
they think I've got a problem Yeah
Reuben Aiton: They, in a lot of cases
that would happen, and those would
be the toughest ones because, you
know, their parents were way more
worried about them than they were
worried about them at that moment.
And so, you know, they- trying
to help them find something to
fight for was really challenging.
Ooh, I just had a struggle
with it to begin with.
I have to tell you, over the time
period that I've worked with both
men and young men, I actually enjoy
working with the young men most now.
They're the biggest challenge, but there's
also the biggest rewards that I see,
Sam and Chris: We can get into this
later, Reuben, but I, I, I wonder, 'cause
I'm thinking of myself as a teenager,
and I think I fit into that category.
Like, I didn't know
what I was fighting for.
I knew I was fighting for something,
'cause I knew what was right and wrong,
and I knew what was gonna happen.
I had seen my dad's pornography
addiction impact my family, you know?
And so I knew I didn't wanna do that,
but I, I, I didn't, I didn't know what I
did want, I just knew what I didn't want.
And I think it can be very hard for
a teenager with so little experience
in the world to, to come to you with
a defined set of values and say,
"This is what I'm fighting for."
You know what I mean?
Well, especially- And so- ⦠somebody
that they don't know, and they're
just like- Who's this, who's
this old dude"- Yeah ⦠"man?"
Like- ⦠I don't know why I'm here."
Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: It's so true and most of the
time, at best, it's an external reason.
And I, I call that a
kindling reason to fight.
You know, guy- a lot of times guys
will come in, I'll be like, "Okay,
hey, what, what are you fighting for?"
And they'll say, "I don't know.
I wanna go on a mission.
You know, I wanna be able
to pass the sacrament.
I wanna be able to go to the temple."
I'm like, "All right, those are cool.
They're kindling, they're cool.
We'll start with them."
Now what I mean by that, you know, when
I say kindling, is it gets the fire lit.
You know, , you need little
kindling to light a fire.
You can't throw a big log and, you know,
put a match to it and get it to light.
those kindling reasons, the problem with
them is they burn out, burn out quickly.
know, they'll get the fire lit, but you
gotta throw a log on top of the kindling.
And those log reasons are
the more internal reasons.
And what I've learned
is take what you got.
If they'll show up with anything, even
if it's, "Hey, I love my mom and dad
and they want me to come," okay, great.
Or, you know, "I got this cute
girl who I like, and, you know,
she's kinda motivating me, uh, to
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: different."
Great.
Let's start with it.
But just know that that's kindling
that's gonna burn out the moment
that that external reason is gone.
I mean, even guys who wanna
go on a mission, I've watched
it over and over again.
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: call, their way,
and all of a sudden they're like,
"Oh, I'm losing battles again,"
Sam and Chris: So you, you serve
a primarily LDS audience then?
Reuben Aiton: That's correct, yeah.
Sam and Chris: Okay
Reuben Aiton: I'd say about
95% of my audience is LDS.
Uh, and about 50% young men, 50%,
uh, return missionaries and married
Sam and Chris: Okay.
Well, what's funny is that we're
sitting here talking about, like,
how these young men and, and are
coming in, and they're like, "Well,
my parents are making me be here."
Dude, I have so many men that come in
who's like, "I'm here because I got
caught, and my wife wants me to be here."
They're, you know, that's,
that's that kindling, right?
To where they, they're there because
they're, they got busted and they
just wanna make some changes.
So now that it's out in the open,
they're like, "Now I wanna, I
wanna try to figure something out."
Yeah.
And then they start
making the changes, right?
'Cause they're like,
"Oh, this is much deeper.
This is much bigger thanâ¦"
Yep.
Reuben Aiton: And, and the,
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: is most people come in with,
"Oh, I got this problem of pornography."
And I'm like, "Hey, hold on.
Pornography's not the problem.
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: get past that."
is the medication that you keep
going to for the real problem.
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: And, you know, and
it's, and it's something that it's
like, I don't know if you guys
have ever been chased by a bear.
I have.
I live
Sam and Chris: Really?
Reuben Aiton: acres in South
Carolina, and I have been
personally chased by mama bear.
Uh, it is
Sam and Chris: I, I was
followed, but I was not chased.
Wow
Reuben Aiton: I was chased, I wasâ¦
It was a really stupid thing
I did, my wife will tell you.
But, uh, yeah.
And it's an experience you
don't forget, and it's one that
motivates the crap out of you.
The problem is the moment you
have escaped the big bear coming
at you, you know what happens.
You stop.
And so, you know, when we've got these
external kindling reasons, they're
great to get us started, but the
moment they're gone, if you're running
away from something, you generally
start to let off the gas pedal pretty
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
Wow
Reuben Aiton: this is why, you
know, a lot, lot of young men in
particular, they're just like, "I
got these external reasons, but
I gotta do this, and somebody's
telling me this," or, "I'm gonnaâ¦"
And, you know, like even a mission
for a lot of them, it's like,
man, it's not gonna look good if I
don't make it out on this mission.
So a lot of my work focuses around,
okay, hey, what are we gonna
stop running from, and what are
we gonna start running towards?
what are you gonna start fighting
for that's, that's here, out here?
Those are good.
We'll getâ¦
We'll use them, but we gotta throw
the log, the heart-based reason.
the beauty of this work is that when
somebody will stick with me long enough,
I can usually get them to go past
the external, and start to reallyâ¦
They start to connect in new ways.
And when they start connecting with God
and they start getting a relationship
with God themselves and other people
that's different than what they've
had, they start to feel something.
And they're like, "Whoa, uh, this
is deeper than I thought I could
go, and I didn't know I could
have this kind of relationship."
And then you start to
see the log really light.
And I love that.
I love doing that with young men.
tough work.
It's, it is very patient
work, working with young guys,
Sam and Chris: well, thinking about that,
I mean, look, thinking through this,
kind of this background information as
a lens, tell us your story, 'cause I,
I bet you have some personal experience
to back some of this stuff up.
Reuben Aiton: Yeah, I do.
And, you know, I as, as a
teenager, I didn't have a whole
lot of issues with pornography
at all because I had some issues.
I didn't know it.
I had a pituitary tumor
growing up as a teen, and Iâ¦
It kind of shut down a
lot of my sexual function.
Didn't even
Sam and Chris: Hmm.
Reuben Aiton: But had it, had, you
know, they found it, had surgery,
kind of got hormones and everything
going back again, and it was
Sam and Chris: Everything's waking
up and they're like, "What the heck?"
Yeah, what was that
like for the first time?
Geez.
Reuben Aiton: It was,
it was weird, actually.
It was like going through
puberty at, like, 18 years old.
Sam and Chris: I wanna, I
wanna know what that was like.
If, did that wake up right
when you got out of surgery?
I mean, like, you're on anesthesia
Reuben Aiton: it was, was, it
was within weeks to, to months.
Like, it, like I went from zero to 100,
Sam and Chris: Wow.
Reuben Aiton: had that experience.
It was crazy, man.
Sam and Chris: You have so much
testosterone as a 15-year-old.
Reuben Aiton: And, and, you know, and
so this whole new world opened up to me.
And, I pretty much willpowered my
way to, you know, to keeping things
in pretty good check, um, until Iâ¦
You know, I had- I didn't get married till
I was almost 36, , for the first time.
um, , in that process of being single so
long, I reached a point where I did have a
lot of emotional mood, you know, struggles
around being alone, and being by myself.
And, uh, it, it kind of got me back
toward moving towards pornography again.
As well as, as well as
some of just the, umâ¦
Like, I had a lot of really weird
biochemical effects from, you know,
from this tumor and the effects of it,
and, you know, just trying different
things to, to help heal in that process.
And so,
Sam and Chris: So you said that you
started moving towards pornography again.
So
Reuben Aiton: Yeah.
Sam and Chris: move any further,
kind of map that timeline out us, for
us to give us a little more context
Reuben Aiton: Like this was like
from I was struggling 18 to 20,
Sam and Chris: Uh-huh
Reuben Aiton: in pretty good check,
and then, you know, early 30s, you
know, , 32, 33, started kind of
gravitating towards that again.
And, and, you know, was able to, to do
some of my own healing work, but never
felt like it was really complete..
By the time I met my wife, um,
I had things in really good
check with pornography, but I
didn't understand the causes.
I didn't understand what was behind it.
I didn't understand any of that.
So it was really kind of an enigma for me
still until I, you know, started getting
into coaching and started getting into
addiction work and started to understand,
whoa, I see what's going on here.
And it started really helping me
to not just be white-knuckling
my way through pornography.
Uh, you know, I was keeping
myself clean, but I wasâ¦
I felt like I was white-knuckling.
And so I began to really experience,
wow, this is like a totally different
way of fighting because you're
fighting the real battle, which is
connection, and not just, I call it
holding the beach ball down underwater.
That's what it feels like,
I think, for most guys.
And, you know, it's just a matter
of time before that beach ball
is gonna pop back up again.
It just gets hard and tiring.
So I always like to describe it
as the equivalent of taking the
air out of the beach ball, the
work that, that I do with guys.
When we address the root cause
of what's going on, it literally
takes the air out of the ball.
And, and a- again, it's
founded in connection.
When we, when we have the
spirit, that's the real battle.
We win every battle, because we're in
a place in our, in our brain and in our
connection with God, ourself, and others
that we're gonna, w- we're gonna act from
our value system, from what we value most.
Uh, we're always acting from values, but
when we're not in our frontal lobe of
our brain and we're not in a place of
connection, which is interesting, when
you get in your frontal lobe, you also
experience a spiritual connection there.
But when we're not there, we're in
our middle brain, the thing we value
most is air because we think we're
drowning, and most guys don't see that.
They don't understand that, you know,
when they start to feel the pull of any
consumptive behavior, which pornography
was just one of many consuming behaviors,
it's, it's a result of the pain that
they have had built up that's got them
inwardly focused in the survival brain and
in a place of pain where they need air.
So as I began to learn that and master
that in my own life, it enabled me to
be able to, you know, really effectively
work with people in a different way.
But I still, until a couple years
ago, until really about a year and a
half ago, I feel like I still didn't
really get the real root of this.
And it took an experience that I had
about 18 months ago that was, uh,
harrowing for me, uh, terrifying for
me, to teach me some things that I
needed to know, that even though they
had nothing to do with pornography, it
was game-changing in the way I can now
approach addiction recovery with people.
I had already, you know, like I
say, gotten things in check well
enough, but just felt like I still
didn't really get what was going on,
- Sam and Chris: and I think
that's just a testament.
You can, you can get sobriety
without actually healing.
Reuben Aiton: And I watch it, guys.
I see it in kids and adults.
I watch guys, they can do three,
four, five months and look great.
Everything looks good.
But you can see the cracks beneath,
and I can, I can pick 'em out
Sam and Chris: Totally.
Reuben Aiton: Quick, uh, now with,
you know, knowing what I know.
And you know, a lot of it is shame-based.
And they're, you know, they're
white-knuckling their way through shame.
Sam and Chris: So what
happened 18 months ago then?
You said that was an experience, right?
Reuben Aiton: On a plane.
Mm-hmm.
I got on a plane after my son's wedding.
We'd had a great weekend, flying back
home, and we're at about 30,000 feet,
and I had had some, uh, in, in the
past, had had some claustrophobia
issues, but I had done some healing
work where I had had no issues.
Like, I'd get on a plane, I couldâ¦
Closed spaces, no problem.
We're flying home, and I started
suddenly feeling my temperature rise,
started feeling really uncomfortable.
I'm like, "What is going on here?"
And within about 30 minutes, I felt
like I needed to jump out of that plane.
I could not be in that plane.
It was a terror like I cannot
describe, and it was like two
hours of just complete terror.
So we get to Nashville, and I'm thinking,
"Okay, just gotta get out of the plane,
just gotta get out of the plane."
I get into the airport, it gets no better.
I'm like, "What is going on?"
And, my mother-in-law was with me, and
I'm like, "Okay, I gotta tell somebody."
I just knew thatâ¦
I, I know the power of getting things
into the open and getting it into
the light, and so I just, I said,
"Hey, I need to tell you, I am,
like, struggling beyond anything I
have ever struggled in the past."
Sam and Chris: But it wasn't
like any turbulence or anything
like that in the plane.
It was just something happened
Reuben Aiton: like, it
was like I was trapped.
I felt trapped in my own body, literally.
Like, I'm in the Nashville
Airport, it's wide open, and I'm
still feeling, like, trapped.
So we went and just found a bathroom,
and we just prayed together, and I walked
around the airport with her, and about
two hours later, I'm like, "Okay, I
feel like I'm feeling a little better."
go jump on the next plane,
and it's like, oh my gosh.
But there was a woman next to me, and
we ended up talking for the, the whole
flight, and I was like, "Okay, I think
I'm okay," I got off the airplane again.
I get in the wide open airport,
and it just is like, oh my
gosh, I feel trapped again.
I get home, it's, like, no better,
and it just got worse and worse.
And I, I felt literally like
I was trapped in my own body,
and I had no clue what to do.
Was scared out of my mind.
And started a three-month journey
for me that was incredible, actually.
Um, I worked with, uh, several
people, several therapists.
Uh, one in particular, her name was Mary.
Just took me on a really incredible
journey of building awareness and
the power of awareness, and this
unlocked something totally new for me.
I had never realized how caught up
in my head I was constantly being.
Even, you know, in my addiction recovery
work, and I was teaching guys how
to, how to reconnect and how to do
this differently, and I really wasn't
teaching them how to really connect.
I was still teaching them to
fight thought with more thought.
And most guys don't realize that.
They don't realize that they're spending
most of their time trying to fight thought
battles where they're spiraling into
all this pain with just more thought.
And that's what was happening to
me when I was in this experience of
just feeling trapped in my own body.
And through a lot of healing work, I
mean, I could, I c- and then I have
a book that I wrote called Rise and
Heal, uh, that, where I tell the
full story of what happened to me
and some of the learnings from this.
But this process just opened a whole
new world to me being able to step out
of thought, not stop your thoughts.
That's what I realized.
This whole business of trying to
fight thought is what actually brings
people deeper into the problem.
It's actually why willpower doesn't
work, because willpower is just
you trying to fight thought with
more thought, with more thought.
And, I grew up in South Louisiana.
I'm very familiar with alligators.
I don't know if y'all are, but,
I don't know if you know how
an alligator kills its victim.
Uh, they've got these incredible cl-
you know, jaws that they lock down on a
victim, they don't like, you know, split
the victim in two or anything like that.
They lock down on them,
and they don't let go.
And then what they do is
they take their victim,
down into the water, and they roll them.
They go into a death roll.
And this is what I call
the, the thought spin.
It's like a death roll, like
an alligator death roll.
That thought, that temptation
or whatever it is, it grabs you
like an alligator, then it just
drags you down, and it rolls you.
And the more we try to fight the thought
with more thought, the more it rolls
us until we just go, "Okay, I'm done."
And it's not the solution.
The, the solution is to
be able to connect, and in
connection, raise your awareness.
And the connection is key because
we can't on our own ourselves.
We're ne- we were never
intended to be the rescuer.
And I'm gonna tell you, through that
experience, the, the only reason I'm okay
right now, and I don't need to be, like,
on meds and, uh, you know, anti-anxiety
meds and, you know, I'm not just freaking
out, is the rescuer came and rescued me.
The Savior literally rescued me from
that experience, and He taught me
several key people that I worked with
to get out of my head and how to get
into my heart, and to really raise
my awareness to a whole new level.
It's like turning up the lights in
the room, and I realized, wow, I spent
all my time fighting dark with dark.
All I need to do is turn on the
lights, and dark can't be there.
And through this whole experience, I
kinda developed a whole new tool set and
even the tools that I had used in the
past, I saw them completely differently
from the standpoint of connection raises
awareness and brings up the light, and
the darkness can't be there anymore.
Sam and Chris: But what does that look
like for you to turn on the light, man?
Reuben Aiton: Well, it, it looks
like a lot of different things
because, you know, there's a lot
of different ways you can connect.
You know, we- I, I think a connection
is like a, like a three-tiered stool.
You need all three.
I think the connection with God and self
are the two most critical, uh, because
you know, it's like I, I tell people,
"Hey, you know, you can be with other
people, and you can feel pretty alone.",
It's like grapes on a vine.
Do the grapes thrive together
because they're next to each other?
No.
They thrive together because
they're each connected to the vine.
And so to me, the most fundamental
thing is my connection with God.
And being able to have a powerful
connection with God can happen in so many
different ways, and I find one of the most
powerful ways is the ability to get still.
And that doesn't mean,
like, not doing anything.
It really just means being able
to, to sit with whatever you're in.
Most people, they get a mood,
they're like, "Oh, that is not cool.
I can't deal with this.
I feel, you know, anxious.
I feel afraid.
I feel sad.
I feel lonely."
And being still is, is not about
getting rid of any of that.
It's about going, hey, can I
embrace the porcupine here,
and can I just sit with it?
Can I be still in it and
accept that it's there?
I don't have to like it.
But that, I find when I can get present
with whatever it is I'm dealing with
in that moment, into the presence of
the one who's always present, the I
am, god called himself that, I am.
He didn't say, "I was, I am to be."
He's I am.
He's in the present.
And when we get present, when we can
really get aware and still and be in
the present with him, man, he's there.
He's that far away.
And most people are shocked when I
take them through even just a simple
exercise of, "Hey, notice what you're
noticing and name it, and then I want
you to just get present with your breath.
Just sit and notice your
breath for a moment."
They'll be like, "Wow, I feel
so connected to God right now."
I'm like, "Yeah, because he's always
been right there in the present,
and you've been stuck in the past
and in the future in your head."
And when we can get out of
our head and just get in that
present moment, it's huge.
Sam and Chris: Assuming that a
relationship with God is the most
important thing you can develop
in recovery, the most important
tool you can rely on, how do you
help a kid, a teenager, who has
shame in his relationship with God?
'Cause you mentioned shame earlier,
Reuben Aiton: Yes.
Sam and Chris: That'sâ¦
this, I never could do this as a
teenager, and I, I understand now why.
I couldn't sit with my
thoughts when I was younger.
I could not.
It physically was so painful.
My window of tolerance was so low,
and I was so convinced that God
hated me, like prayer was difficult,
stillness was difficult, meditation was
difficult, any sort of work like that.
How do you help someone
who feels that way?
' Reuben Aiton: It's a patient
process, I have to tell you.
And I've, I've discovered a couple of
things that I've found to be really
key when somebody's struggling that
way and feeling like God doesn't love
them and they can't approach God.
And I'll tell you, I pull out Ether 12:27,
and I ask them, "Who gave you this?"
Ether 12:27 gives the answer, give
unto men weakness that they may be
humble, that they can come to me."
And when I share that with guys and I go,
"Look, gave you this weakness," but He did
not step back and go, "Well, good luck.
I hope you make it through it.
You know, I might be here if you
need me, but, you know, if you get
yourself cleaned up enough, I might
come help you out a little bit."
No.
He says, "Hey, I'm gonna give you
this, and I'm gonna suffer you.
All you've gotta do is come to me."
Your job is to say, "I
want to be rescued."
am not the rescuer.
gave me this so that I would come to
Him and say, "I want to be rescued,"
and then His grace is sufficient.
So when I share that with guys and I
go, "Look, does it make any sense for
the one who gave you this weakness
to then turn around and say, 'But
you better not approach me until you
are clean enough to approach me?'"
Sam and Chris: There's people that,
that do struggle with that, right?
They, they come in and theyâ¦
Like I've, I've got a, a adult client
of mine right now that, that, that all
works for everybody else, but not for me.
And so, and he like lives his
day, every life like that.
Like he just, he's like, "That's great
for, for you, but it's not for me.
Like that, that doesn't work for me.
Love God, but I don't, I don't
see him the way that you do.
I don't see, you know, the
atonement the way you do.
The, the atonement is for everybody
else, but it's not for me."
And he's just having a hard time
like stepping into that, right?
Reuben Aiton: that one concept in a
lot of cases helps a lot of my guys,
especially my younger guys, when they
Sam and Chris: Okay.
Mm-hmm.
Reuben Aiton: what?
He, he gave this to me?
Wait, I had no idea, All he's
doing is asking me to come to him?"
And, you know, so that is a,
is a big game changer for them.
But the other thing that I have to do
that is part of the patient process
of breakthrough with particularly
young men is to help them get past
what the world shows us about love,
'cause the world shows us that
love is very conditional, that
Sam and Chris: what the world
shows us about God, right?
Yeah
Reuben Aiton: absolutely, yes.
And it's, and sadly, even within the
church, many well-meaning leaders,
teachers, bishops, they shame guys, and
Sam and Chris: and I
think that's any church.
I don't care what religion it is.
There's, there's, there's,
Reuben Aiton: Oh, yeah, absolutely
Sam and Chris: that.
But, but I also think people will look
at that too as, as, "Oh, my bishop is
shaming me," or, "My church leader's
shaming me," when they're actually
just at creating some accountability.
Reuben Aiton: Yes.
Sam and Chris: Which thatâ¦
They, they, people need to have
accountability, but they take shame
because they, they just live in shame.
We just had a guest that was on
here where, he talked about, people
are addicted to shame, right?
And so they see everything
that happens to them is like,
"Oh, everybody's shaming me."
It's because they, they're
living in shame, and so they
attach everything to shame.
I had a client of mine where like,
he's like, "Well, that shamed me."
And, and thatâ¦
We had to lay thisâ¦
We did it experientially, and so
we laid all the different things
that he believes was shame.
We had like 19 different scarves
laid out like a- across this room.
And I'm like, "What if
not all these are shame?"
And that concept to him to just
think that some of those were
not shame just blew his mind.
He was like, "But I thought
that all has to be shame."
And I'm like, "Nope.
That's not shame.
That's not shame.
That'sâ¦"
Uh, we, we like walked through it
experientially obviously, butâ¦
And so that he could recognize, oh, not
everything that happens to me is shame.
It's hard, yeah, it's hard to see through
that when you're living with shame,
shame-colored goggles on, you know?
Totally.
So I see, I see why you start
with the God, the God stuff
'cause that make, that makes sense
Reuben Aiton: Yeah, and if we can, if
we can really help shift some of that.
And then, and then, you know,
connecting with themselves and
seeing their identity statements.
This is huge, and you guys know this.
I mean, it's like that's what shame is.
It's the I am that I'm
accepting about myself.
And I do a lot of, uh, work withâ¦
You know, when a guy loses a battle,
we spend a lot of time walking through
what was the strategy that the enemy
used to get you to lose again, and it
always comes back to them buying into
a limiting belief about themselves.
And when we walk through this process,
I can always walk them back to that,
and they're like, "Oh, my gosh, I,
like, totally didn't see how that
triggered this mood battle, that then
triggered all the, the pain that was
building, the temptations I felt,
and then the spiral, then to the, you
know, the, uh, the alligator spiral
of thought, down to the point that I'm
just, I'm done, and I give up again."
Sam and Chris: Hmm
Reuben Aiton: when guys can start to see
that, wow, I have bought into these lies,
these limiting beliefs about myself.
And, and I, I've, I've learned too not
to just have them try to white-knuckle
their way out of those limiting beliefs.
'Cause most of the time it's like,
I legit believe that, and we have
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: aware of that.
Sam and Chris: In fact, yeah, it, I,
I'll get defensive when someone calls
out a limiting belief and, uh, I'm like,
"No, like, that's what it is," you know?
Reuben Aiton: Yeah,
Sam and Chris: Is.
And they're like, "No."
They're like, "No."
Reuben Aiton: I am a big proponent
of the, the words you use, you know,
using words that, you know, you make
sure that you watch what you're saying
because your, mind is listening.
And you know, while I don't espouse
someone beating themselves up,
the first step is not to try to
fool yourself into a new belief.
If you're struggling with a
limiting belief, you gotta first
be able to notice and name it
and accept that that's where you
Sam and Chris: Love that.
Reuben Aiton: this moment.
Sam and Chris: love that
Reuben Aiton: it's not forever.
But, and, and what I usually ask
guys is say, "Okay, look, let's
get real about where you are."
And then my first question
is, why is that a bad belief?
Because that's usually what
they'll say, "Oh, this is bad."
It's like, why is it bad?
There, there's a reason why you accepted
that, there is probably something that
if we can integrate that with something
else that's powerful, it actually,
they both can be a resource for you So
it's not in cutting out the limiting
belief that we find the solution,
it's in actually integrating there's
a lot of, you know, there's different
modalities that actually do this work.
You know, you probably heard
of internal family systems.
There's a lot of integration
work that's done, a lot of
neuro-linguistic programming.
I do a lot of neuro-linguistic
programming work, uh, studied that a lot.
And, a lot of that is in integrating
the parts, not just trying to cut out a
part, but actually seeing the resource
that each of the parts has, that when you
bring them together, there's good in it.
You know, there's a
resource in everything.
I, I'll have guys come and tell
me, " I know I need to do this
daily work you've told me to do,
but I just don't feel like it.
It feels so hard."
And I'm like, "Great.
That's awesome."
Let the resistance be your resource.
When you go into the gym, do you go
pick up the five-pound dumbbells No.
You go in the gym, and
you find the resistance.
So when you feel resistance
to change, great.
Let's embrace that instead
of running from it.
Sam and Chris: Hmm.
Reuben Aiton: we can do those kind of
things, and we can become aware of,
this is where I really am right now,
but I can integrate where I really am
with where I desire to desire to be.
That's what I'll tell guys.
Like, look, can we get a desire to
desire even something different?
And if we can start to flip really
get them to begin to act as if, okay,
this is who I, I desire to desire.
I, I recognize I'm still here.
I desire to desire this.
It's amazing how the two will begin to
integrate and come together, you start
to see them just reject the old way, but
actually see where there was some benefits
that led them into that to begin with And
they start to find real healing that way.,
Let's stop resisting, and let's
stop fighting what you have
been seeing as bad up until now.
Let's justâ¦
It's, it is what it is.
It doesn't have to be good or bad.
That's a lot of what shame
is all about, is we go, "Ooh,
Sam and Chris: Right
Reuben Aiton: that's bad."
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: labeling it,
just go, "It's where I'm at."
Um, I mean, I,
Sam and Chris: Creating awareness
Reuben Aiton: people, how many people
I've worked with who when they can notice
a name where they're at, just in their
emotions and sit in them, and I, and I
have them process them, not try to fix
them, just, "Hey, let's just process.
Why are you here?
What's going on?
What's happening?
is there a learning I can gain from this?"
And then let's ground out everything else.
They're like, "Wow, that emotion's
not bothering me like it used to."
didn't do anything to fix it.
I did was just process, why is it here?
What can I learn from it?
And suddenly they're doing way
better, suddenly they're able to
release a lot of these limiting
beliefs that the emo- you know, theâ¦
A belief gets, gets its hold
when the emotions attached to
that belief get their hold.
And if you can help someone process
those emotions in a healthy way,
actually start to dissolve the belief
because the emotion's not there anymore.
Sam and Chris: Well, you know why, you
know why I think this works, Ruben?
I think this works because when
you help people gain that level of
self-awareness, they suddenly feel safe.
They start to realize,
like, "You know what?
This stuff's serving me in
a way, and I'm not crazy."
The shame starts to leave,
Reuben Aiton: Yes
Sam and Chris: the identity changes.
So I think underneath all this,
you're creating safety for these
boys and these men that you work with
Reuben Aiton: and they're not afraid
when the emotions come up, and they're
not afraid when the urges might come up.
If an urge comes up I teach my guys,
"Hey, this is your time to just pause
and go, 'Oh, okay, I'm feeling an urge.'
cool.
I'm actuallyâ¦
I've got physiology that's working.
What's the mood battle
that I'm in right now?"
Because it's a mood battle.
You're in pain that's causing you to
now feel an urge to get some relief.
Your brain's going, "Hey,
kind of in pain here.
Uh, like a relief source."
And it goes to all the
previous sources that it knew.
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: m- markers,
physiological markers in your
brain that it goes, "Pornography.
Oh, food.
Oh, video games.
Oh."
And it just starts presenting
them with a little dopamine hit.
"Oh, that would feel good right now."
when my guys can see that, they don't
freak out, 'cause it's the freakout in a
lot of cases that actually them spiraling
Sam and Chris: It's
the, the alligator roll
Reuben Aiton: there it is
aga-" Yeah, they're like,
Sam and Chris: Totally
Reuben Aiton: I'm feeling tempted again.
Am I gonna lose a battle again?"
It's like, okay, just chill.
You don't need to freak out about it.
You're having a physiological response,
and it's because you were in some pain.
Let's just see if we can calmly
identify what was the pain I'm in.
And, and in reconnecting with
themselves, a lot of times I'm just
getting them to go, "Okay, pause.
in your middle brain.
We gotta get the frontal lobe rebooted."
there's a push and a pull way to do that.
The, the push, as a warrior,
is I get my body moving.
get up.
stop what Iâ¦
I stop thinking at that moment.
I tell them, "Don't try to
force the thoughts to stop.
Just notice and name them,
then go get your body in gear."
Start doing something purposeful
and intentional with your body.
And then at the same time, use the
pull part of this chemistry to connect
with God, yourself, and others.
And in that place now, they
can get the lobe rebooted
where they can think clearly.
And then we'll do some
processing at that point.
But when guys learn this and learn to
just, hey, let's just get aware and get
a reboot going, they can get out of these
battles, many, many cases, very reliably.
Sam and Chris: Crazy that you talk
about, like, body movement, man.
That body movement is so important because
so, so many people are like, "Well, I
just don't wanna get up and do anything."
Um, but, like, if, if you watch, um,
some Tony Robbins trainings thatâ¦
Like, I love wa- I could watch Tony
Robbins all freaking day, right?
But, but one of the things that
he does is he, i- before he gets
everybody going is, people are just
kinda showing up, and they're just,
like, really not doing anything.
But then he has, uh, a guy come
on that gets everybody, like,
amped up for, for their body.
But it gets them in their body, right?
Mm.
And so one of the things that he does
is, is he's like, "Yeah, I don't care
if you're standing up or sitting down.
If you're sitting down, you're still gonna
do the same thing, and you're gonna move
your arms as fast as you possibly can.
And we're gonna do this for,
for 20 seconds all together.
Everybody's gonna do
it all at once, right?
And if you're sitting there, and
you're moving that body as fastâ¦
You're moving your arms as fast as you
can, like, it'll just, just that, the
energy that it, that it creates inside
you, it just changes the physiological
aspect of what is actually happening."
So then you can start gettingâ¦
That's why he does it.
It's like, it's gonna
change your mind, right?
So that you can start thinking clearly
Reuben Aiton: One of the things that I
have my guys do, uh, you know, when, when
somebody's in their middle brain, 'cause a
lot of times guys will try to do something
that's way too intellectual, frankly,
to try to get out of the thought spin.
You know, when their, when
their middle brain's going,
they are just grasping for air.
So what I tell them to do to get
started, first step, go primal.
What I mean by that is get your body
moving in the simplest, most primal ways
that does not require a lot of thought.
Because you're notâ¦
Your brain is just not online, and there's
gonna be so much resistance to it, most
guys won't do it, especially younger guys.
Sam and Chris: Yeah, I was wondering
about that 'cause that was my
first thought when you said that.
Totally
Reuben Aiton: It's like, goâ¦
I mean, one of my favorite ones is if
you got a drum, go beat a freaking drum.
You know, that's about
as primal as it gets.
But, but go get up and move.
Like go, just go take a run.
You know, go run, walk, go, go grab a
tool and start working in your yard.
Go wash some dishes.
Uh, go sweep a floor.
Like, literally something
that is mindless, but it gets
your body moving and itâ¦
You'll see the frontal
lobe start to reboot.
And then if you can throw some connection
on top of it with God, self, and others-
You'll start to see it really kick in.
So I get, I usually get when I'm,
when I'm kind of working with my guys
about, okay, when this comes again,
we're gonna plan and drill some primal
movements, and I want you to drill them.
I have them, I have my guys
doing practices every day.
Uh, we call them Manpower.
Uh, it's six practices, ministering,
action and accountability, a new
pattern, pray, write, and read.
these are meant to help connect them, but
they're also meant to be drills, so that
when they do find themselves in a thought
spin and they're spiraling downward, one
of their activities that they can go to.
And, uh, one of them that I love to
use is, what we call a fire drill.
They basically run to, like when you
would do at school, you run to a flagpole.
And your flagpole is a safe place
that you can literally run to,
just something simple and primal.
Goâ¦
Like, it might be your mailbox, or
it might be, you know, someplace
outside or a safe place in your house
that you just feel neutral there.
then do something that's, that
is movement, simple movement,
and then something that's good
connection with self, God, or others.
And those, I have them drill them
every day so that, know, we, we know
that when you get in the heat of
battle and the pressure's on, you
totally are gonna forget anything
you haven't drilled consistently.
So I'll get them drilling this every
day, a couple times a day, so that
when they notice themselves off, boom,
they run their flagpole, and they
do that drill they've been drilling.
And they're way more likely to do
it, uh, when they've been running
it, you know, consistently each day.
So that's actually part of my
program, is getting them to, run
these, these six habits daily.
They have to do it at least 28 days as
part of their graduation requirements.
and that, that helps to
kind of instill that.
it, it also helps them to get to
graduation because they're creating not
only connection, which raises awareness,
but these values-based actions help fire
and wire the frontal lobe, which has been
atrophied from the addictive behaviors.
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: to rebuild the muscle
in the frontal lobe, and you s- it's
like taking the air out of brakes.
most guys, when they, they come to a
stop sign of, you know, "Hey, I don't
wanna cross this pornography stop
sign," they hit the brakes, there's
so much air in the brakes that they
just right through the stop sign.
So a lot of the work I do with them is
that repair work that Manpower helps
facilitate of getting the air out of
the brakes, and\ they'll-- I'll find
that when guys do that consistently,
it really helps support that, uh,
recovery of the frontal lobe and their
ability to hit the brakes and stop
Sam and Chris: Reuben, I got a
question as we're wrapping up.
But, I wish we could talk for 20
more minutes 'cause I got a bunch
of questions, but what if the need
is not connection in that moment?
'Cause there's a lot of reasons
why we go to porn that might not be
connection, and that's where I would
get stuck if I was s- someone who
was working with you with my history
Reuben Aiton: Here's the thing
when- whenever I see something come
up for someone, my question, my
number one question is, "Hey, do
you need to solve that right now?"
Because, see, see, it's the need for the
solution, it's the need to get rid of
something or solve it or fix it or do it
that actually is creating the very mood
battle that's spiraling you downward.
And when I can get
somebody to go, "Hold on.
Yeah, why do I need to solve that?
Why can't I just sit in that?"
Like, you know, and for a lot of men,
for instance, their wives treat them
a certain way, and they get spiraled
out of control and get back into
pornography over and over and over again.
I'm like, "Okay, why do you need
to solve your wife's problems?
You can't control that."
Can we just sit with that?
Can you be okay that she is
acting the way she's acting?
And can you have a mood about it?
You know, it's okay that you're
having emotions about it.
We don't have to get into a mood battle
over the mood, 'cause it's the mood
battle that spirals them downward.
if I can get people to just pause the need
to fix something and sit in it long enough
and be aware of what's going on, a lot
of times that takes the air out of this
whole situation, and they're not getting
so amped up in a way that it actually
drags them down into another lost battle.
Sam and Chris: Mm-hmm.
Reuben Aiton: So I don't know
if that answers your question,
Sam and Chris: Let's go back and
forth on this for a second, 'cause
I think it'd be helpful . 'Cause I
would say, to what you're saying, I
would say that's not meeting the need.
That's getting their physiological
response to calm down and helping them
get through another day and get sober.
And I would argue that that's willpower.
So that's, that's where I'm,
I need you to fill in the gap
Reuben Aiton: Willpower is saying,
"Hey, I just need this to be gone."
And it's, I- we don't stop
to say, "Why is it here?"
You know, when I stick my hand on
a hot stove, do I want feedback
that my hand's on a hot stove?
Heck yeah . I wanna know that.
you know, we, we know that easily
when we, you know, with, with physical
pain, but most people do not connect
with the fact that, hey, I feel
an emotion, it's the equivalent of
me putting my hand on a hot stove.
want that feedback because My body
is saying, "Something's wrong here.
Yeah, I'm not just like, "Okay, I'm
just gonna hold my hand on here.
I can do this.
I can do
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: why is my hand so,
feeling the way it's feeling?
Well, let's take it off.
And I just, I listen to the
feedback, , that my body's giving me
Sam and Chris: I see
Reuben Aiton: of just will powering
my way into, "Well, I'm just gonna
just keep pushing through this."
Stop.
Get aware.
Connect.
And most cases, we can't
do that on our own.
That's why we're not the rescuer here.
We've gotta connect to the one
who's got way more light than we do,
Sam and Chris: Sure
Reuben Aiton: that light,
now we can go, "Oh, I see."
And we can have the solutions, the power,
the resources we need to win the battle.
Sam and Chris: Totally.
I love that.
I would imagine that process sheds some
light and self-awareness on the shame,
the needs, so that's, that's where you
have to start, because if you don't
start there, then it is willpower.
So I, I see where you're going with this.
I, thanks for filling in those gaps.
Reuben Aiton: Yeah.
Sam and Chris: Okay
Reuben Aiton: You wouldn't think that the
first step of deliverance is surrender,
Sam and Chris: Hmm.
Reuben Aiton: But it is.
The ability to accept where I am,
to go, "Oh, I see where I am, and I
don't have to fix this right now."
You know, I still have, some of those
really scary feelings come up every once
in a while of I wanna jump out of my
body, and they don't scare me anymore.
just the other day I woke up and was
like, I felt my temperature rise.
I felt like, uh, like,
"Whoa, I'm trapped."
And in the past I would've wanted
to have gotten up out of bed and
like just run to an open area,
but I just sat in it that morning.
And I turned my thoughts to
the Savior, said, "Hey, I don't
know how to do this on my own.
You know how to do this.
You helped me with this."
And then I just sit in it and I watch
it, literally watch the, the anxiety
and everything there, and just like,
"Okay, what's, what's this about?
Let me just be curious."
Boom, it's gone.
And I, I'm not afraid of that feeling
anymore because I know it's just
trying to show me something, and if
I can be curious about it instead of
fight it, it's amazing how quickly it
neutralizes out and I'm fine again.
When guys learn that, they,
they stop fighting the urges and
they go and deal with what was
causing the urge to begin with,
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
Love that.
Wow.
Reuben Aiton: different,
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
That is fundamentally different.
Intuitively, I think that's
what most, I shouldn't even say
teenagers, that's, you know, that's
what I've run to my whole life.
So I appreciate you, you
bringing those thoughts in.
I think we're very aligned in a lot of the
way that we think about things, you know?
Like, y-
Reuben Aiton: definitely.
Sam and Chris: you have to get underneath.
Reuben Aiton: to Chris'sâ¦
Yeah, when I listened to Chris's
talk from, uh Leading Saints
the other day, I was like,
Sam and Chris: Sure.
Reuben Aiton: Chris and I
Sam and Chris: Sure.
Reuben Aiton: mu- similarly."
Sam and Chris: Yep.
Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: Yeah, a lot of
Sam and Chris: Totally, man
Reuben Aiton: pa-
particularly around shame and
Sam and Chris: Yeah
Reuben Aiton: shame is
really a process of awareness
Sam and Chris: For sure.
Yeah, the, the shame trap and
the, the healing path and- Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: Yeah, absolutely
Sam and Chris: If someone wants to get
in contact with you, how do they do that?
Reuben Aiton: Best way is to start
with my website, ariseheal.org,
and they can find lots of resources there.
I have a self-mastery assessment there.
I have a free e-book there that's a
quick read, and it's also an audiobook.
they can access my YouTube channel,
they can access blog and past.
Um, and then I've got
contact, uh, right there too.
But if they, if they complete, you
know, like the self-mastery assessment,
which is a really cool assessment that
I built that I ask them four questions,
takes two minutes to complete, and it
will pop out an entire report of where
you are in your self-mastery right now.
You'll be amazed at how those
four questions give a huge amount
of insight into where they are.
And so theâ¦
it's really helpful for them to
go, "Oh, okay, I know where I
am and I know what help I need."
And then they can set up time to
talk with me, uh, one-on-one, and
Sam and Chris: That's cool.
Reuben Aiton: to kind of get them started.
Sam and Chris: Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: I getâ¦
have a lot
Sam and Chris: Love that.
Love that.
Reuben, tell us about your song, man.
Reuben Aiton: Eye of the Tiger.
Sam and Chris: The eye of the tiger.
Reuben Aiton: Guy.
Mm-hmm, I'm an LSU guy, and every, every
game day, how the, the team comes out.
And I don't know if you've ever been
to an game, holy cow, it is loud.
The football teams, they have to
hold hands because the crowd gets
so loud before every play that they
literally can't hear the calls.
the Eye of the Tiger was the thing
that always pumped me up, you know,
on game day, uh, when the team
Sam and Chris: Love that, dude.
Reuben Aiton: come run out.
Yeah.
Sam and Chris: Well, at the end of
the day, it's about tuning out the
noise and engaging in the battle, the
battle against shame, the battle to,
the battle to gain self-awareness,
like it's a battle.
So I, I love that.
I think that's a very fitting song
Reuben Aiton: the biggest, the biggest
part of tuning out the noise is to
actually just let the noise be there.
Sam and Chris: Mm-hmm.
Reuben Aiton: and name that it's
there, and then flip your attention.
It's like voices in a room, you know?
I don't have to tell everybody
to shut up when I'm listening
to the person in front of me.
I just need to decide who
I'm gonna pay attention to,
Sam and Chris: Well said.
Love that
Reuben Aiton: the essence
of a lot of that, you know
Sam and Chris: Heck yeah, man.
Thanks for jumping on today, man.
We appreciate it.
Yeah.
Reuben Aiton: being with you guys
Sam: That's Reuben
aiton.
And that's A-I-T-O-N.
From Arise N Heal Recovery.
He is author of the book Arise N Heal,
Guys, thanks for watching.
You can find us on social
media @UnashamedUnafraid.
Get access to our bonus content.
Become an outsider on
unashamedunafraid.com.
Catch us in the bonus content where
Reuben will discuss self control vs.
self-masstury
Remember to subscribe to our YouTube
channel, and if this was helpful to you,
it'll probably be helpful to someone else.
So take some time right now
and share it with a friend.
Thanks again for watching, and until
next time, continue to live unashamed.
Here is "Eye of the Tiger" by Survivor.