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A podcast that explores what it means to work with purpose by interviewing people who are working for more than just a paycheck.
Are you in corporate America grinding away the weeks as you watch the years fly by? Do you have that voice in your head that’s asking for something more? But you shouldn’t complain, right? You’ve got a good job, good pay, good benefits. There’s people out there that would kill for a job like that. But that little voice just won’t go away.
I’m your host Gino. And as an ex 9-5er I know that feeling all too well. I worked in corporate for 6 years before I finally decided to walk away, choosing to live my life a little differently. And since then, I’ve met some pretty amazing people who do work that positively impacts the people around them, their communities, and the world. This podcast exists to share their stories, and to help inspire you to do the same. Leave that job that you hate and to start working towards your purpose.
Welcome to Working Towards Our Purpose, a podcast that
offers a different perspective on what a job can be. For everyone
out there that's heard that voice in the back of their head asking for something
more, it's time to listen to it. I'm your host, Gino,
and join me as I interview people who have decided to work in their own
purpose. Together, we will learn, become inspired,
and hopefully find our own path towards working in our purpose.
Joining me today on working towards our purpose is my friend, Phil
Restivo. He's a plumber who owns his own business.
He also has multiple rental properties that he owns and
takes care of. But most of all, he has a thirst for knowledge
and always wanting to learn new things and to push himself
forward. Welcome to the podcast. Why don't we start by, you telling
me a little bit about your background and your schooling and and how you grew
up? Sure. So, yeah,
I went to, middle school,
and it was time to go to high school. And,
you know how in middle school, you have, like, a shop
class? Don't know if you had it, but Yeah. Yeah. I do. Level of
good working. I really enjoy working with my hands.
And when I heard that there's a school you can go to
where half the year, they're doing that kind of stuff, and the other half a
year, they're doing academic stuff. I'm like, oh, this is
like a get out of work free card right here.
So I was kinda like signing up. And at the time, I
because you have to apply to to go to a tech school,
I thought it was, it was better than a public school
because you have to apply to get in. But realistically,
it's not at all. But it did
teach me a trade, which was awesome. So I don't know how to do
academics for half the year, which was also awesome.
But there's there's downfalls and, you know, there's not many
girls in school. So
that was a bit of a downfall after leaving
them. Also coming from growing up in an
area like Longford, and then going into a school in
Meriden was kind of a culture shock for me.
I used to think like, Oh, people that smoke
cigarettes, you're bad. And then I go into
this nursing school and, like, people are doing
drugs in the hallway and stuff. And I just felt so out of place.
And, you know, the 1st year, I was actually considering
going back to, like, leaving the techs and just going to the
public school. But it actually shaped me a lot
because you get to meet these kids that are
outside your comfort zone, and you
realize, you know, they're not bad people. You just had different
circumstances growing up. And
so it it taught me a lot as far as,
like, being grateful and appreciative for
certain things. Like, I remember, you know, making friends
with, you know, somebody. We'd gone to his house
and, you know, they're all pitching in for groceries and
stuff, and they leave their ovens open to keep the house
and stuff. And I and that was, like, crazy to
me. I didn't realize, like, how good I have it before
seeing that my first game. So I'm happy that I
ended up going that route because it puts things into
perspective. So, yeah. Anyways, I went
to trade school. I had no idea what I wanted to do.
The 1st year, you kinda go through each trade for a couple weeks, and then
you have to pick one for the for the next 3 years.
And I kinda just chose plumbing
because a couple of my friends were in it. I thought
Saturn pipes was cool and stuff, but it
really didn't I didn't grow up wanting to be a
plumber or anything. I didn't know what I want. So,
yeah, I, graduated in 2008.
And all my friends I still had a lot of friends
that were in, like, long for public schools and, you
know, they're all going to college. I felt like, geez,
if I don't go to college, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be a
nobody like that. I have to get a good job. And this is, you
know, growing up, like, the the passion and everybody drills
into, you know, you gotta go to college to to make a living and
everything. So I felt I
was nervous. Like, how am I gonna go to college when
I I felt like all my friends were smarter than me too because
the academic program at a tech school isn't as
strong as one in a public school. So
I wanted to go to college. I was interested in
auto, like, mechanical engineering or something. But I had
no idea, you know, what to do, like, how to go to
college, how I was gonna pay for it. I didn't really have
anyone to, push me or, like,
walk me through that process. So
needless to say, I never got into anthologies.
I was into cars at the time and, you know,
souping them up, and then and then I I liked art as well. So
I I got the idea, like, hey. Maybe if I
combine these two things, like art and auto,
you know, I could do something. So I ended up going to a
technical college, Lincoln Tech, for 2 years
and got a certificate in
auto body. And their entire commute and we do some
airbrushing and stuff like that. So that was like a a phase of
my life. I went through super into cars.
I rented a space in Durham. I had, I think,
garage that I was doing side work out of and
just working on cars all the time, painting cars
and got into racing, doing all this, like, street
racing, speeding all the time. I got a bunch of tickets. I got my
license suspended. And every plumbing job
I applied to, they turned me down because
they couldn't afford to insure me to drive their vehicles.
So I had no choice. I couldn't get a job.
And so that's what kind of led me down the route. Let me get
into auto body because I actually enjoy working with cars.
And I thought by adding my,
artistic side to it, you know, maybe I could do custom paint jobs or
something like that. 5 years later, you know, I I worked at a bunch
of different bottoms shops and kind of jumped around,
worked my way up. But another thing that I had
thought about was, you know, the highest paid guy in the
shop is making, like, 20, $30
an hour. I didn't like the fact that I'm gonna have a
cap. Like, I'm gonna bust my ass for all these years,
and then that's the most I'm gonna make. I did out the math and it
was like, we're running like 70,000 a year or something.
And, like, growing up, you always think, like, everybody's got
these aspirations. Like, Oh, I wanna make a $100 a year, and that just
seems like a ton of money. And and
then when I felt like I couldn't reach that by standing out of value,
I realized, you know, this isn't me. And
also, like I said, it was very repetitive. I was getting
sinus infections all the time from all the dusty breathing.
It wasn't good for my health. So I
sold all my cars. I used to have about 4 cars at a time,
like cheap cars I would buy and suit up, fix them up. But, yeah, I
sold them off because they kept getting me in trouble, cleaned up my
driving record. And a buddy of mine was actually
going to travel the country and he's giving up his plumbing
job and kind of put a good word into me. So he got him the
job. And, I started off at this company.
I actually took, like, a $4 an hour pay cut
to to go back to plumbing, but I was more focused on, you
know, the long run. I knew it was gonna pay off in the long run.
So even if I took a pay cut, you know, at least I'm
getting experience. I could put my hours from school to work
and and kinda build myself that way. So was that your
internship that you had to then get a job for? Like, how do
apprenticeships work in a trades? Because I was thought they were, like,
unpaid So basically, you just, like, applied for a job, and
then they paid you, but you also got your hours?
Yeah. So there's a lot of rules with the apprenticeship program.
So you can work for
most trades. You get a job with a company in
that trade. And then they have to sign you up for the
apprenticeship program so that hours actually count. And
I think it does it costs them, you know, so much money and they
gotta they gotta fulfill, like, so many requirements. Like, they
have to have so many licensed guys to so many premises.
They gotta give you so many hours a year, stuff like
that. So I worked for this guy
for about a year, and
he actually never signed me up for my apprenticeship.
So I kinda I was upset because
I I wasted a year of my life and none of those hours
counted. And and 10000 hours ends up being
5 years. You've got to work for somebody just to get your
license. And once you get your license, that's when you're making, like,
$25 an hour. So I'm like, I don't
wanna wait 5 years to make $25
an hour. So, you know, it was frustrating. But
after I left that company, I went to
another plumbing company that signed me up right away because I
told them, Listen, I'm not gonna start working until
you sign this paper. And they were, you know, they were a great
company. They signed me up right away. And and they taught me a
lot. I learned a lot from them. And, yeah,
fast forward 4 years after that, I was able
to get my accept my test and got my
license, which for us tradesmen, it's it's
equivalent to, like, a bachelor's degree. You know? Because not only do you
need schooling, but you need on on the job training. And
you can't even, like, some people think that, oh, can you just fudge the
hours? You really can't because it it honestly
takes that many hours to feel comfortable with
with what you're actually doing. And, you know, they they do
say that in any business book you read, you know, they
say, takes 10000 hours to master something.
Right? So it is true when it comes to Trojd's as
well. I finished my apprenticeship with them,
sat with my license. I got my license.
And I worked for them for another year.
And I asked for payers, and they
didn't wanna give me pay rates.
And I I knew that I was it didn't seem like
because I was doing all the work. I I felt like,
why am I making money for these guys when I'm
literally doing everything? Like, I could just do this for myself.
And I basically applied for a bunch of other jobs
and and got another offer for a lot more money.
And I told them, like, Hey, listen, I gotta give them 2 weeks because, you
know, I got a better offer than anyone else. They tried to match it,
and I kind of told them, no, thanks.
Went with this new company. And the new
company was actually slow. They paid me
better, but they didn't have a lot of plumbing work.
So in the downtime, not only did they do
plumbing, but they also did bathroom remodels. So in the
downtime, I was helping these carpenters
redo these bathrooms, and I learned how to tile, I learned how
to hang doors and do trim work and
do sheetrock. So I learned how to fully
remodel things by in just a few short months at
this company. And that was very valuable to me
because at that time, I was
interested in real estate. And, I got on the
forums. I basically I Googled
how to become rich because
I was so sick of, like, people screwing me over on my
hours and then people not wanting to pay me what I was worth.
And then I see, you know, you see all these things on TV and
all these people you look up to and they're driving nice cars and stuff
and they're like it almost feels unattainable.
So I started Googling how to become rich, how to
become rich. Everything I read online kept pointing to real
estate. I read Rich Dad Poor Dad. I looked
at, a lot of the most successful people in the
world, and all of them are involved in real estate.
So I'm like, okay. I gotta start learning more about
this. And when I started reading,
everybody was about flipping houses. Like, now it's become like a
new, fad almost where
everybody wants to flip a house, but nobody knows what they're doing. They just watch
these HDTV shows and they just think, oh, this is gonna be fun. I'm
just gonna paint some walls and make a ton of money. But it's
not like that at all, obviously. And I'm I'm sure
people are learning that the hard way. But yeah, I have these
aspirations on flipping the house instead of doing a bunch of
research. And I started rather than waking up every
morning and going on Facebook or something, I was
looking at the MLS every single day, and I
got to know towns inside and out.
If if a house came up for sale, I knew it within the first hour.
And and I knew I got familiar with, you know, what
were good deals and what were bad deals because I just saw what things were
selling for because I was looking at it every single day. But it
took me a long time. Like, I was stuck in this,
like, analysis paralysis where I never
actually took action. I just kept doing all this research
and and at the same time I'm working for this company, I'm learning how to
rehab houses. And I felt like I had
all the know how, but I was still afraid to,
like, pull the trigger on it. And the other thing of that
was, I didn't have a lot of money at the time. You know, I was
making, like, $400 a week. And I was able to
save up $20,000 and
that's all I had to my move. You know, I didn't have a retirement or
any type of stocks or anything like that. I just
had a savings account and checking account, and
I had about $10 each. So I decided
to quit my job and
travel for a few months. Just stayed in
hostels and stayed at friends' houses
and just traveled the the country for
about 3 months. And it cost me
about, like, $4,000. I wasn't sure if I was
gonna come home or not. I just needed a change, really.
And, when I came back, I felt like I
didn't wanna go and work for somebody again because
I felt like I knew how to do everything better
than them. And so I'm like, why am I
doing all this work so they can make money? I could just do this for
myself. And I know who how to start a business.
I I do wanna ask you about that that trip though because I think that
that's maybe a crucial, like, pivoting
moment. Because so it sounds like you were working for these
people making, like, okay money, right, but like doing all the
work and realizing that you're the one doing all the work and not getting paid
for it. And then you basically started researching real estate
and looking up, you know, familiarizing yourself with that whole new
industry and then you just quit your job out of nowhere and, like, what did
you what did you do on those 3 months? Like, was it self exploration? Like,
what what, what inspired that? You were just so burnt out that
you had you had to or Yeah. Actually, I've always
been, like, an open minded person and loved
traveling, always wanted to travel. And, you know, you
see all these people posting on social media. They are traveling.
You said, how are these people doing? I wanna go travel. I wanna travel.
Finally, I had some money saved up in the morning. I've been thinking about it,
but I probably never would have done it until my best
friend actually was moving to California
to to be with his girlfriend because she got a good job out
there. And he didn't have a job at the
time, and he said, hey, I'm driving out there.
It'd be awesome if you can drive with me and we could take our
time, stop wherever we want on the way. And it
sounded like a great thing, but at the same time, I
was I felt like, can't do that. Like, that's a
fantasy. Like, I gotta keep working and doing all
this. And then just one day, I remember
I was at work. It was like snowing. And,
you know, my boss sent me on some job and nothing was
ready for me. I'm all by myself. And
I was. I was just kinda like fed up with it. And I'm like,
I know that I could do better than this. And and
I'm about to miss this opportunity. My friend was leaving the
next day because I procrastinate a lot.
And and like I said, I I never really took action. I
just I studied things and but I would never do
anything about it. And, basically, he
called me up that that day and was like, hey.
I was just seeing, like, you know, I'm leaving tomorrow. Did you wanna
come or not? And it just
kinda it sat there with me. And I was at this
house in the freezing cold and just miserable.
And and at the time, I I went through a recent breakup as
well. I'm like, you know what? I'm done.
So, I left the job early. You know, I was supposed
to work until, like, 4 or 5 o'clock. I Ended up leaving around
2, and I packed up all my stuff,
drove the van back to the shop, left it there. And I
text I sent a text to my boss and I said, hey, thank you for
the opportunity, but I had a little bit of
a revelation. I'm gonna put some time off to travel,
and I'm sorry for any inconvenience I've caused
you. And, basically, I told my parents that night because I was
still living with my parents. And I was like, hey.
I think I'm going to go leave and and travel
for a few months, and I didn't really know if I was coming back.
I was like, you know, I'm open to living somewhere
else and trying something new. And and so,
obviously, they weren't very happy about
that. They were upset. But I packed a backpack that
night and, we said our goodbyes and got in
part with my friend and we just took off. But then throughout that
trip, I guess I thought I guess I thought I was gonna
find myself. You know? I'd find, like, this awesome
place to live. Like, I always thought California would be cool, so so weather's
nice and all this stuff. But then after
spending enough time in in different places, I can start to
realize all the places have their pros and
cons and the grass isn't always going on the other side. It
honestly made me appreciate a lot of the stuff
that I have here, a lot of the connections and friendships. And,
like, knowing the the holes in the wall and stuff like
that, it takes time to, like, establish
that. And it's hard to give that up because it's
comfortable, I guess. But I always like to challenge my
comfort. I'm in the same place for too long. I have to, like, do
something different. So, anyways, yeah, I
traveled and came to that
realization more, okay, like, I had a good
time. There was no place in particular that I really
wanted to move. And, you know, I missed my friends,
and I came back. And, yeah, when I
came back, like I said, I just didn't want to
I didn't wanna work for someone else again because it just didn't
make sense to me. So is that when you started
your own business? You came back and tried to find clients. What
what was that like? Yeah. So, again, I I
went on to Google and I said, I will start my own
business. And and then I started reading about
LLCs and s corps and c corps
and familiarize myself a bit and figure out, okay,
this is the easiest way and the most common way to do this,
and here's the tax benefits for doing it this way
versus that way. So I learned a lot through
self exploration and I basically
filed all the paperwork online for my LLC
myself and figured it out. It really wasn't that difficult.
And, you know, pay a couple $100 in fees and make
a trade name and boom, I had an LLC.
And now it's, okay. Now what? What do I
do now? Do I need to get a van? So
I, reached out to, some of the
guys that I knew at the old company. They're like, hey. We got
this old van sitting at the shop. You should see if you could buy it
off the bus. So I reached out to the boss and asked him if I
could buy it. And he was happy to get rid of it
and sold it to me for, like, $1500. So
because I knew how to work on cars, I fixed it up. And,
you know, I put shelves in it and got it all set up.
And yeah. So then I basically just started
telling everybody I just started reaching out to people and
saying, hey. I could fix this or
if you if you know someone that needs plumbing work. And I started
slowly building a customer base, and then word-of-mouth
just spreads so quickly is at the
time, you know, farmers were hard to come back.
So when you first, like, thought about getting
work, I mean, at least for me, it was like in my
field, I would basically do anything that people would pay me
for. Was that a similar similar for you? Like you would
just kinda do any job that people would pay for? Did you think about, like,
trying to do the thing that you wanted to do or, like, to pigeonhole yourself
into one thing? Or did you experience something similar?
Yeah. In the beginning, I was taking anything and everything that I could get,
really, just to get my name out there and and to just make
some money because I was broke. Right.
So I started, like, I would install
mirrors and doors and doors and doors and light. But
mostly, I tried to do plumbing work, and I kept on I would
introduce myself as a plumber. I wouldn't say, hey.
I'm a carpenter or do everything type
person. So I guess what happened is,
my mentor, which was good friend of
mine's father who owned a plumbing company in
town. I would help him on the side. And he taught
me so much and he was been a mentor to me in other
sense. He would throw me some work on the side.
And, not only that, if I ever asked a question,
you know, I was able to go to him for advice. And that
was huge because in the beginning, you think you know a
lot until all the responsibility falls on you.
And and something comes up, but you got
nobody to ask to, you know, how do I set out this
problem? And I was fortunate enough to to have
this mentor of mine, Helton.
And he, would always have a
way out And, let me borrow tools if I knew
him. And, and yeah, he really dropped me on my feet.
So I have to, I have to definitely
give a shout out to him. Richard Charlie from R&M Funnel. So
he's a great guy. Mhmm. How did you initially get
hooked up with him? Because I hear, like, a lot of people saying that they
had, like, a good mentor that they could rely on and and this and that.
But I guess I've never found myself in a situation where I've,
like, found that sort of passion. Like, do you ask somebody to be your mentor?
Like, how does does that work? Oh, no. I don't think
I've ever had a conversation with them saying, Hey, will
you be my mentor? Just a relationship kind of
unfolded, basically, because one of my best
friends dated his daughter. And, you know, we're all in the
same friend group. And we would hang out a lot. And,
you know, she mentioned to her dad that I went to school for
plumbing and he would need a helper sometimes on some
jobs. So he would reach out to me and ask me if I wanted to
help him on a job. And, you know, I took every opportunity I can
get to make a little bit of side money. And I
really enjoyed working with him because he's,
he's very, very intelligent. And he's also, you
know, a patient person. And I think looking
back on, the work I used to do, and
with my ADD and stuff, I would forget so many things.
And it kind of like, I could see why people
have gotten frustrated with me in the passion, like,
bosses that I've worked for. Because now I deal
with the same thing. And I get frustrated with people that
work for me. But I know what it's like now.
So I envy him because he never, he never got frustrated
with me. And if he did, he was always tactful with
the way he, you know, worded things and it kind
of motivated me to want to try harder. With other purpose,
you know, they'd yell at you and you'd you'd lose your confidence and you'd
lose your momentum and just it
makes you wanna resent them, rebel, and
stuff. For this guy, he really, like, builds you up
and, just makes you wanna try harder.
And I think I needed that because it
pushed me to become a better
person. Yeah. That's awesome. That's really cool that
you, like, found somebody to be able to instill that. Because I totally agree,
like, there's different types of, you know, disciplinary
styles, I guess. But the person that's like patient with
you is the person that you don't wanna disappoint, which then makes
you try harder to not disappoint them. Whereas if you just get yelled at, you're
like, alright, well, you know, I don't care about you anymore. So whatever you're saying
doesn't mean anything. So so that's that sounds like whatever you're saying doesn't mean anything.
Yeah. So so that's that sounds like something that was, like, really
beneficial to you and and your business. So what
did the start and, like, to where you're at now
with your business, like, how you said that you had people working for
you. At what point did you get enough work to have people
to come on? And at what point did you, like, find your
identity as a business? Yeah. So working
in the companies the other plumbing companies when
I was working for them, you know, I made a few close friends
that continued to work for them. But, you
know, I was able to call them up and say, Hey, I
got this really good job. I need a little bit of help
on. And I'd I'd pay them on the side. And then it became
a more regular thing as, you know, once you get in with
a couple contractors or a couple builders and you're giving them continuous
work, and then those people refer you, it just
takes off really quickly. And almost almost
too quickly. I feel like I wasn't prepared
for the amount of workload that I was taking on.
So I felt like I was consistently reaching out to these people to
help me out. And then finally, I'm like, you know, I gotta
hire somebody because this has just gotten too
much. And there was that fear that,
like, you know, what if I get slow and what if I can't
keep on working? But the other thing you gotta keep in
mind is that I never had a advertise. I
never you know, everything's word-of-mouth. So if I do get slow,
that's the time where I can take that time to advertise.
And and that's when I started getting into real estate
as well. So my goal, well, if we get slow, you know, I'll have them
helping out with the houses that I'm living on. I should probably touch up
on that because I I'll stop. Yeah. So at what point did you get
involved in real estate? Like, you got your business going. Right? And and
that's going well. At what point did you first get into real
estate? Yeah. So everything kinda took off for me when
I was 28. So like I said, I I got my
plumbing license when I was 24. And
I stayed at that company for a couple years,
then I jumped to that other company that taught me how to do, bathroom
remodels. And during that whole time, you know, since I was probably
21, I've just been researching
real estate constantly. And like I said, scouring the MLS every
day. And, you know, I was listening to podcasts
to and from work every day, and I just felt like
I was drinking from a fountain of gold. Like, I was just
retaining all the information where normally,
because of my ADD, I don't retain a lot of
information if I'm reading a book or something. But I was so
fixated on this and I found it
fascinating. So it was girdle to to do
all that. But like I said, I didn't make any moves until as soon as
I got back from my trip where I thought I was gonna find myself
and and I felt like I came back and I was kind of in the
same position. I got nothing really changed. But
looking back, a lot changed because when I came back, it's
I knew that I didn't wanna work for somebody. So that
same year, not only did I start my plumbing business,
not only did I travel the country, but I also
took every dollar I had and invested
it into this house that I was gonna flip. So,
yeah, basically, I started doing plumbing work for this
kid who is actually a year younger than me.
And he owns like 11 properties
and He was just crushing and he was a nurse and I was
like, oh my god, I want to be like this kid so I
would ask him a bunch of questions and he also
wholesale properties, and I told him, you know, I I really
wanna get into this, blah blah blah. And and he
told me about hard money. So now, you know, how'd you get the money to
do this? And he said, well, I use hard money.
What's hard money? And for those of you that don't know, you
know, hard money is just, it's a loan you
can get that's all cash. And you don't need
sometimes they require you to put up collateral. But
it's a high interest loan, and it's a short term.
So, basically, it's scary because,
you know, you're paying 12% interest, and you gotta
pay them back within a year. So this kid was
wholesaling the house and he said, hey, I got this property. I just had too
much going on right now. And, you know, are you
interested in buying it? And rather than him take
a wholesaler and fee for it, he said, Why don't you
do some plumbing work on one of my other properties? And we'll call
it even on the fee? So I said, okay. So I bought this
house for a $101,000.
And obviously, I didn't have that. I had $20 to my name.
So in order to get the the hard money loan,
I had to I was fortunate enough to have my
parents cosign for me, and they actually had
to put up their house as collateral on this loan.
So, basically, the, the hard money lender put a
lien against my parents' house until they're paid off.
So, yeah, I had to put $20 down because
they let me borrow 90% of the the cost of
the property, which was 101. And then there's all these
fees and that. And then they also funded the
full rehab cost, which I sort of
knew what I was doing, but I didn't know exactly. But I
walked through the house and kind of made a scope of work. And it's like,
you know, I think it needs about 20 to 25 grand
worth of work. So they were willing to fund me
for a $130 or something. So,
basically, I got the loan. I bought the house.
And I started working there
every single night. And it was
probably the most stressful and
hardest I've ever worked in my life because
I'd work all day doing plumbing. And then I'd
go straight to the house and work all night every single
day for 5 months. And it
got old really fast, you know, because your friends are going
out to the bar and, like, inviting you out. And
I have to tell them, I can't. I can't. So I was afraid
of what's gonna happen if I don't pay this hard money lender back.
I was scared. And I knew I knew if I just put
in the effort on this one, I was looking at this. I didn't
even care if I failed. I just knew this was gonna be such a good
learning experience for me. And there's no way I could
fail. I can't even explain to you. Like, my mindset was just like,
I wasn't gonna let myself go no matter what happened. So
I was there every single night from, say, 5
o'clock to 10 PM. And I,
completely rehabbed the house by myself and
got it done in about 4 months
and got it listed and sold it for
196,000. And I had
about 30 grand, not even 30, I'd
say like 27 grand. And my rehab costs,
when I sold the house, I made about $34 in
profit. And so I got my initial
investment back plus $34. So suddenly, you know, I
got $60 sitting in my bank. And it's like the
most amount of money I've ever had in my life. And I was like, Holy
shit. I gotta keep doing this. This
this but I was also like, this was a really hard work,
though. So how am I gonna do this more
efficiently? After that, I got hooked. And,
every plumbing job that I went to, I would talk to the
customer and be like, hey, do you know anyone looking to
sell a house that needs work? Because, you know, I'm
getting the flipping houses and I'm looking for a fixer upper.
And finally, I happened to came across, an
older couple. She had a leak in her bathroom, and
she was gonna file a insurance claim. And she
was she was actually crying to me while I was there. But she's
like, I have to move to Germany
in in a month, and I gotta sell this house. Now I don't know how
I'm gonna sell it because it needs all this work. And I said,
well, maybe I can buy it. And we
walked around the house. She showed me the house, and the new
did a lot of work. You know, her husband died and
she she was moving in with her daughter in Germany and just
she was kind of stuck. She felt stuck. So
I kind of was offering a solution that
was good for the both of us. So I I asked her, you
know, what do you think the house is worth? I'm, like, walking around,
it needs about a $100,000 worth of work.
And, she said, well, how
about $85? And instantly, I was
like, okay. I'll take it. And
I had no clue how I was gonna fund it or or anything, but I
knew that was a big deal. Because, again,
now I was constantly looking at the market and knew what what things
were worth. My parents saw how
successful I was with the first property that they
were interested in getting involved.
So I said, I said, look, what if you guys loan
me this money and I'll pay you
10% interest rather than pay this hard money?
And they were, like, okay. They were all for
it. And because, you know, you can't put your
money in I mean, you try to put your money into the stock market
and stuff, but, you know, it's averaged, what, 7%
or something. So, you know, to them, there was like a
one win. They knew I was capable of doing. And they
didn't have 85 grand sitting there. They actually had
to take out a HELOC on their
house. So but the HELOC was a really low
interest rate at the time. So I paid
the extra cost of that. And then I gave them
10% when I was finished. But what I learned
on the first house, I should have never there's
2 things I learned. I made $34,
but then I'm I'm looking at
that's because I had to pay the real estate agent.
He made $13 to list my house
and sell it. And I'm like, well,
if I if I cut him out, like, if
I sold the house myself, I would have
made, you know, 47 grand.
That's a lot more money than 34.
So I was, kinda thinking about
that. So I looked in, but what does it take to get my real
estate license? And then it's like, oh,
there's 2 nights a week to take this course for
a couple months at $500 to get this license. That's a no
brainer. Because I'm looking at it like, okay, I'm gonna
spend a couple $1,000 for this license, but
any property I buy instantly pays for itself because I'm
saving all this commission costs. And I knew I was gonna continue
to buy more properties. Plus, I wanted access
to MLS to, like, I was having trouble because I
was trying to find more deals and I was talking to realtors. But
the realtors, like, they weren't as attentive as I
wanted. Like, they weren't pulling comps and they they didn't
set up, like, circles on the MLS that I wanted. I wanted
I wanted to know the ins and outs of the transaction so
that I can cut as many people out as possible.
I'll be the first one there. I could have the best offer.
So that's what I did. I I went to school for the real
estate and got my license in a couple months.
And then I just, like, kicked into
overdrive. And, you know, that year I bought
3 houses. And like I said, I
became obsessed. And this is kind of a
this is kind of a thing with people that have
ABD. We get obsessed over the things and
then then we'll get bored of them. So it's
like we can hyper focus really well
on certain things, or we can we can
be scatter minded and not focus very well on things we're not interested
in. So at this time, it was like, I was just riding
the road. Interest rates were low. I was hyper focused
on real estate. When I got my license, I just
started buying up everything I can. And I
started just shopping around on Craigslist and finding the cheapest
people I could do the work. But then you're on
to like, you know, things don't get done the right way. And
so you kinda have to, like, micromanage people. And, you know,
the whole thing was a learning process. But, yeah,
I, and then at the same time, I'm, you know,
running the plumbing business and I got a guy working from
there. And it was difficult
to balance everything. And it kinda forced me to
learn how to be more organized because I wasn't the
most organized person. But
yeah. I think the first thought that comes to my head is
so you're flipping more and more houses, and you're doing more and more work on
it. To me, it's like you have this business that does plumbing, but it also
does other stuff. How come like, did the thought ever enter your mind of, like,
having your business just rehab these houses and kinda, like,
shift what the business does? Yeah. So that's what I I
still want to be to be honest. Okay. But the
first house that I flipped, I learned a lot on. Not only did I learn,
like, oh, let me cut the realtor out to save on
passion fees. But I read a couple more
books off bigger pockets. I read the the
BRRRR strategy, which is
buy, rehab, rent, refinance,
repeat. And basically, I thought to myself, I should have
never sold that house. I should have re did a cash out refinance
and I would have gotten the same amount I would have had 34 grand back
in my pocket, but I would have kept the house and made
money each month off of it. I'm an idiot. So
the the second house that I bought was a 2 foreman,
and I knew I'm like, when I'm done with this
one, I'm renting it out and I'm refinancing.
So that's what I did. You know, I bought the house for $85
And I put about 65 grand
into it. And then I refinanced it
for 2.96. So I pulled a ton of
equity out of that. And I was able to pay my parents off
close to 10%. And then I
purchased another house in Cheshire, and I was able to
cover all the rehab costs. So rather
than use a lender, a hard money lender on this one, I actually got a
traditional mortgage on this one with a low interest rate, and
I funded the rehab myself. So I was cutting out all
these fees, and and it it was kinda like a
snowball effect at that point. And then, you
know, same thing on this house in Cheshire. I put
about $55 into that house, bought that
house for a 145,000.
And I cashed out, refinanced that
house for 310,000.
So, again, it just kept on putting more and more pocket
money into my pocket. And then then I
bought another and then another, and I just kept going. I
started to slow down because interest rates
started to rise. Right? And I was getting panicky,
like, well, I can't keep refinancing out of
these if the interest rate's gonna be high because then I won't be
cash flowing anything. So I was
kinda like, you know, people were talking like, oh, the interest rate is
gonna go up 3 points over the next year. So I'm like,
I have to buy as as much as possible now. So
rather than buying fixer uppers, I bought 2 of the
houses I bought with turnkey. And
I don't regret doing that. But it may
not have been the smartest decision I've
made. Because had I not,
if I bought 2 more fixer uppers, I could have
pulled a lot more cash off and continued buying more properties.
But because those properties cost a lot more because
they're a term 2, it tied up all my cash.
So now I'm currently sitting at
7 properties. Most of my money is tied
up. And I had enough money within the bank
for, you know, I try to keep, like, 10% for each
property to in case anything goes wrong. But
so I'm not, like, dead broke, but I put these
limits for myself so I don't get into sticky
positions. But right now, I've been a little stagnant
the past year because I don't have that extra cash to to
purchase another property. Does that also have something to do with,
like, the way that the housing market is? And like, I mean, I'm
thinking, like you mentioned before, you not having
as much drive to want to do it, maybe that changing and then
also just the housing market changing itself. Is it something that has
slowed down or not become as feasible? Because I'm I'm imagining people,
for sure. And I think, the
important thing is you need to know when to
pivot and, and change your strategy. So
I, you know, I got in at a good time. And I was
capitalizing, you know, I was buying 3 houses a year
and really grew really quick. But then
but then I came to a fault where I should've,
like, really because I read a lot about it, but I didn't
I didn't actually take action on some of the things that,
okay, like, the the market's changing a bit. Maybe I
should change out my strategy. Maybe I should start looking for
for different things. So like I said, what I did
was I bought those. I was so desperate to buy whatever I
could while there while the interest rates were low. And
rather than wait for a deal to come along, I just ended up buying
these 2 20 properties that tied up a lot of my cash.
The cash flow did well. But unfortunately, I'm
not pulling any money out of them right away. I
could, I could take out, like, HELOCs on our properties and,
and have enough money to do something with. I've just found,
I'm at a point where I'm comfortable again, I
guess. And and also, I've been working really hard.
I kinda just need a break because I'm trying to balance too many
things at once. And I think it's important
to take time to yourself and, you
know, I can't sit. If I'm comfortable for too long, I've
got to sit. I've gotta step out of my comfort zone. So right now, I'm
just trying to enjoy the comfort and relax for a
little bit, you know, take take a little time to myself.
But I'm definitely gonna go hard
again in a few months probably. You know, I got
other things going on, you know, with my fiancee
that moved over here and, you know, we're getting married soon.
I gotta prepare for that. So, you know, once all
that stuff has passed, I'll probably get back into the groove and and
keep planting. So you think that you will get back
into real estate and back into buying more houses? Do you is that
still something that, like, you have to drive for? Yeah. So,
definitely a 100%. But I I kinda wanna
take it to the next level. Like, it's kinda like,
you know, after you do it a few times, it's like, okay, I've been there,
done that. Like, I wanna go bigger. Right? So
I'm looking to get into a commercial property. I'm interested in
getting into like a small apartment building or something like that.
And I've been thinking more and more about
liquidating my whole portfolio into like one
big commercial building. So
that's a thought of mine, but I've also
been hooking up with a lot of different investors as well
and focusing on building relationships with people that
I could then utilize in the future for, for other
deals that come my way. So that's kind of where I'm at at
the moment. Yeah. Because I imagine
having you said 7 properties that you have, like, how do you, how do you
have time to manage all of that plus still the year
business? Like, what is what does it, you know,
a day look like for you? Yeah. Because it sounds like a lot from this
end. Yeah. So it's, it's
not terrible because the thing is, because I'm
rehabbing these properties, everything's brand new.
So I'm not getting a lot of, like,
calls like, oh, this is leaking or this isn't working
because everything's brand new. What's gonna go wrong?
Trust me, stuff still goes wrong. And it is a pain in the ass to
do it. But it kinda puts you ahead of, you know, the
people that buy, like, the rundown properties and they do the bare minimum.
And then they're just getting calls every other day. I knew
I didn't want a business strategy like that. And
and trust me, they're they're still making money. It's just more of a
headache. I wanted something more hands
off. So by putting, you know, new
appliances and having all new fixtures and
stuff, all new plumbing, it kinda eliminates a
lot of those problems that people have in the future.
Another thing that comes to mind as you're talking about, like, you know,
taking it to the next level, getting a commercial space or
something even bigger. What does it feel like in your
mind, like, the first time that you went to buy your house and, like, how
scary it was to get that first loan and now look at yourself and
think I'm gonna go buy this, like, you know, huge thing with
with all my assets or something? Like, do you think about, like, the
difference between how you felt then and how you feel now? Yeah. Definitely.
So another good thing I've learned is
like, take what people say
with a grain of salt because so many
people told me no, that's not
gonna work, or you can't do this. And
they're just wrong because and and I've read this a lot in
books, and I I kinda didn't believe it until I've experienced it
firsthand. You might get 10 people that tell you
no, but then the 11th person says yes.
You know? And that's referring to, like, lenders and stuff. You
feel like you can't find a lender that would do a certain deal
or give you a certain rate. But if you reach out to enough
people, eventually, you're gonna find someone that says yes. It's
the same for looking for deals. Like, you
can start cold calling purpose. And most people are going to slam
the phone in your face. But eventually, someone's gonna pick up and say, yeah. I'll
sell you my house. And it really goes for
for everything I I've dealt with, like dealing with contractors,
telling telling me something can't be done. I
I just learned that also, like, everyone
I always thought, like, these people have all this power and,
like, they're so much smarter than me. And you
start to realize these are just normal people. And,
like, don't be afraid to challenge them. And
now it's like, like, I'm in the process of trying to
assume a mortgage, the property,
right now. And the bank I called,
like, 6 different people at the bank and they all said, no. It can't be
done. It can't be done. But then I read online and on the
forms and stuff where people have done it and say it can be done.
And so I kept on calling people
until I got the answer I wanted. And
finally, someone's like, yeah, here's the paperwork. This is how you do
it. It can be done. And I I couldn't believe
it. Like, it it makes me want to, like,
reprimand all these other people. Like, why are you going around
spreading this false information when when I can
it can passion? It's not a legal or anything
like that. So in a lot of ways, just because people
purpose are lazy. And maybe they're not getting the
passion out of it, so they don't care. They're not gonna take, they're not
gonna go the extra mile to figure it out for you. So
sometimes, you gotta do that leg work for yourself.
Yeah. I well, I think that what that speaks to is basically just, like, not
giving up on something. I mean, that's basically everything
that I'm hearing from you right now is, like, not giving up on something until
eventually it comes through. How do you keep yourself motivated after,
like, being denied so many times? I mean, I'm right now,
stupid example, but, like, I'm dealing with, like, annoying health insurance and
getting frustrated and, like, wanting to just not deal with it
anymore. How do you keep going?
Yeah. You know, that is it is hard
to stay motivated and keep going. I think
what helps me, and this may not work for everyone,
but I continue to listen
to podcasts that they kinda like, they
can't me up, you know, like you listen to someone's story and it's
like, yeah. I wanna go out and buy a house right now and flip
something. And, like, you get amped up about it. But then,
like, if I don't listen to podcasts or if I don't,
like, look at MLS for a while, I start to get stagnant and feel
like, this is never gonna work. But I
think you gotta find what works for you and,
you know, dig deep into yourself and ask you, like, what gets
you excited about this thing in particular?
I mean, I guess with health insurance, it's like, I don't know. Like, what's
gonna get you excited about helping?
Yeah. And that may just be one of those things, like, you just have to
deal with and it's annoying. But but yeah. No. I think that's that's good,
advice for for that. Like for me, it's like I try to find books that
are helpful and they get me excited. And I try to read, like, when I
get up in the morning before I start anything, and I try to
invest at least a little bit of time into reading something. Even if it's just
like 10 pages that I read, it could completely change
my course of my day just because, like, I was inspired or motivated by it.
So, yeah, podcast is definitely, another way to do that. So I think that
that's good advice. Yeah. And and I don't think like,
podcasts aren't for everyone. Right? I I also
learned a teacher once told me that
there's 3 different ways
kids learn. There's, a visual learner,
a kinesthetic learner, and a audible
learner. And I found out and was told
that I'm an an audible learner.
So I retain more information when
I hear it rather than when I see it or when I'm
doing it with my hands. So I I
kind of grasped, grasped onto that and,
said, okay, I'm gonna start listening to audiobooks
rather than reading the audiobooks. I'm gonna start listening to
podcasts. And and the more I'll do
that, I'm noticing that I am retaining a lot more.
And so you wanna just play to your strengths.
And, Yeah. So I do encourage
everyone to, you know, figure out what's the
best way to get them to to learn or to
focus or to retain information and
then use that. Yeah. That's that's
huge. Because I mean, it's just thinking about, like, I don't know
which one I am. I think I'm, like, a do it type of person. Like,
if I'm doing it, that's how I learn the best. But even just to think
like all the past things you tried to learn, if you knew which way you
learned the best, how much time could you save or how better
could you apply that to anything you're learning in the future. So I'm sure there's
a test out there that tells you which one you are. I'm sure you could
Google it and go find it. So that makes me wanna do that after this.
Yeah. And honestly, you know, after I learned that,
I kind of felt like, disappointed with
a lot of my teachers in the past, because I feel like there's a lot
of teachers out there that just, you know, they follow
a rubric. And they, they just hand out worksheets, and
they treat everybody the same, but really, everybody's different. And
you have to cater to each student and understand
their strengths and weaknesses and and understand what's
gonna make them pay attention and retain the
information. And I felt like in school for
me, I struggled with, obviously, the ADB thing.
Had I known this in the past, I think
I I probably would have been a lot smarter than I am now.
So I wish that more teachers would, take
that into account.
Yeah. I I do think that that's a good point. And then I also just
heard myself thinking, like, I'm sure there's tons of people listening
to you right now being, like, you seem way smarter than I do right now
listening to this. So, like, that brings me to, like, the
perception of self and, like, being self critical
and, you know, being hard on yourself and that sort of thing. Like, you
you said that you struggle with ADD and that's something that, like, you're
aware of. But what about, like, other self
limitations? Is that something that you think about?
Yeah. I definitely have a
lot of self limitations. I do a lot of
self exploration, read about a lot about
mental health and stuff like that. It's another thing I'm like
obsessed with, I guess you could say. Basically, you
know, started from recognizing that I had a
problem, because I wasn't diagnosed with a d
d till I was, like, 20. I knew I had her. I knew there
was something wrong with me. Like, I couldn't retain
information or stay focused like everybody else.
And I know a lot of people, not a lot of people
nowadays think they have a and b or they do have it and,
and they struggle to cope with it. And I've learned
some things that work for me that really have
like jump started my way
of thinking this. And, it was
discouraging hearing, like, I had trouble holding
the job, especially when I was doing auto body and stuff.
People would look at, like, they'd ask me a question,
and they would like I'd be thinking it's like they
got racing thoughts. So they'd ask me a question, and I
take a while to respond because I'm not thinking about the
question. I was thinking about something else. And then then I got to
the question in my head, and I responded.
My response time was was delayed. Right? So they're
looking at me like, is this kid stupid? Like,
what's wrong with me? And and then it makes you question
yourself. And I I had
that a lot growing up. It was like
purpose thinking they might not outright
say, like, are you stupid? Which they had done. But
a lot of people would think, like, I'm a pothead or something. And it's
like and I'm asking myself, what is wrong with me?
Why why does it take me a while to respond to people? Why
am I slow with the way I think and
stuff? And be even without solving the math problem,
I'll always get the right answer, but it took me a lot longer
because I went about it a different way in my head than the
average person would, I guess. So that's what got me
into researching, you know, why
am I like this? Again, like, just Google.
This is my problem. Like, why does it take me long to think? Why does
it take me long to respond? How come people think I'm
I'm slow or something? And then I read about
ADD, then I went to a doctor. They diagnosed me. They say
the only thing to treat it is medication, which I didn't wanna
do because I'm I'm kind of a naturalist
and don't like to put on things in my body and stuff like
that. So I just
started researching ways to cope with that. And
I found, I really just figured out my own
way. Like like, when I first went into business, like, I'd
forget to go to a job. Like, I would get calls,
like, where are you? Like, voices. What what are you
talking about? Well, you talked yesterday. You said you were gonna be at my
house today. And I would forget because I wasn't
writing them down right away. So what I started doing
is the second I get a phone call
for for a job, I got into a hap I built these
habits where I have to put it in my phone right away
no matter what I'm doing. I'm driving, I gotta pull over, I gotta put
it in my phone or else it's just gonna it's gonna go
away. So, you know, not only with things like that,
but with everyday things in life. I
write notes. I like something or I think about something or I
I wanna do something, I have to write it down. That's a big thing for
me is writing things down. And writing them down right when you think about it.
Don't say, Oh, I'll write it down in 5 minutes because then it just goes
away. So that's something I do to cope with it.
But, yeah, there's a bunch of different things. There's, like, cognitive
behavioral therapy, which, you know, I've tried
practicing that. I still try to do that.
But any any little thing you could do helps.
But I think it's important to realize because
it it killed my self esteem, like, thinking that there's something
wrong with me and that everyone thinks I'm slow and stuff.
You finally realize, oh, wait, I'm not
slow. Like, I can still figure things out. I just go about it
a different way. Now I have to think about how to do
things that are more to my advantage, I guess.
Like, use my strengths. Right? So as soon as
you find out what your strengths are, it kind of built
my confidence back up. You know, another thing I
have pretty severe sleep apnea and
something I kinda didn't think anything about. But when I
got control of that, that made a huge difference in my life
as well. I've been more alert during the day. I'm not weak,
more focused. So just
constantly trying to better yourself, both physically and mentally, I
think is important. Mhmm. Yeah. Definitely.
We are kinda, you know, getting to the end of our time here. But I
can't not ask you about purpose since that's kinda the name of this
podcast. Give me any thoughts or your opinion on, like,
what purpose is or, like, I know a lot of,
it seems like decisions that you made when you were younger were driven on,
like money and how much you're getting paid and this and that. How how does
all that tie in? Or is it something that you think about? It
is something I think about a lot. Actually,
I always ask myself, like, what is the
purpose of life? Is there a purpose to
life? And I guess everything
is unknown. Right? So I used
to be in the mindset of, like, there is no purpose of life
without these little microorganisms, and eventually, we're
gonna die. And then there was nothing left.
And there's no trying to thought this was no
purpose. And I don't think that's a healthy way to
think, which is why people probably, believe
in religion and stuff because it gives you a hope of of
an afterlife and or a greater being. And I think
that's great. Unfortunately, I feel like I
can't believe in something that I can't see, hear
or feel. So I've tried. I've
tried because I I want to I envy people that believe in
religion. I just, it doesn't work for
me. But I do think, like, going down a
more spiritual path, because everything is
unknown, you can't say that there's no purpose,
but you can't say that there is a purpose. So
it puts me in, like, this gray area where where I can't be
depressed, But I can't be
excited that there's some afterlife. So now if someone
says, I just try not to think about I just try to
be happy in any way I can. And, so
maybe that's my purpose is just to try and
be happy. Are there things that you can
do to, like, to affect your happiness? Like like, like, I guess that's something that
I think about a lot. And, you know, words
also, you know, they're all made up. Right? The word purpose for
me is is helpful and important, but that doesn't
mean that, like, maybe it is for everybody. But I think happiness is
something maybe that is something people are always
chasing or or trying to figure out what makes them happy. Is there
things that you've noticed that do make you happy or don't make you happy?
Just for example, like, the things that are supposed to make you happy have not
made me happy. Right. Right? So then I have to go and then find
those things that actually make me happy versus are
said to make me happy. And I and I think for me, purpose is
finding something that I can do that gives me, like,
a reason to be doing it, which then affects my
happiness. So maybe asking in a different way, like
happiness, like, what what affects your happiness or what have you noticed?
Yeah. So I thought long and hard about that too, like, what has
happened. And I think people
look at, obviously, like, material things,
which I think everyone can agree that that's, like,
temporary happens. So then the other thing is, like,
love. Right? Like like, finding love
should make you happy. But love is also
just a feeling. Right? And a
feeling a deep feeling. Don't get me wrong.
But it's a transmitter in our
brain that makes us that produces dopamine, makes us feel good about
it. But beyond that, I think we're we're constantly
looking for our purpose and and happiness
and stuff. And I don't think you ever, like, find
this one thing I can have this revelation. I think
you have to enjoy the journey. The journey is the
happiness. Just the whole process
is purpose. No. No. I think that that
has a lot of truth for me, like, enjoying
the process and the journey. But I also think that could be something
that is anxiety provoking, is not knowing
where you're gonna go or where the future. So it's like, for me, a fine
balance of like enjoying the moment, but then also
not being worried about the future and being in the present.
So that in and of itself is like a whole another conversation and a whole
balance of things. For sure. It's definitely
anxiety for both of you. But I think if you didn't have
things that gave you anxiety, like,
you wouldn't know like, you wouldn't know what good
is if there wasn't bad. You wouldn't know what
happiness is if there wasn't sadness. So
you have to experience both sides of the spectrum.
And there's never going to be this perfect paradise. It's always going to
be we're always gonna need both to exist,
to, to fear, to be alive. So
Yeah. Definitely. I definitely agree with
that. So we we gotta, you know, come to an end. But I just wanna
ask you, like, what's next for you or or what, what are
you trying to to get into next or, you know, speak that into
existence? Yeah. So I'm learning
the hard way that I don't like
working long hours. I wanna spend
more time doing the things that I enjoy doing. So,
the next thing for me is trying to put systems in place
where my businesses can run themselves. So I
am thinking about doing, like, a a different business
venture, whether it's opening some some little shop
or something, you know, having somebody else
running. Or and and like I said, I'm I'm looking at
getting into a a commercial property and basically
getting more cash flow to to the point where
I don't have to work hands on anymore.
And I could spend you know, I'm not looking to
live this lavish life and and do all these crazy things. I'm
just looking to not have to be a slave for
the dollar and, and just
travel and make connections and
get back. And I think that's what what would make
me feel the best. Yeah. I like
that. Thank you, for sharing all your experiences
and being vulnerable and telling us all about the things that you've
gotten into. I appreciate your time and,
wish you the the best of luck with your future endeavors. Yeah. Thank you.
And same to you. And, we'll have to
flip this all around so people can get to know
your your side because I think, you have a lot of,
your insight, life in general as well.
Oh, thank you. It's it's interesting
seeing, like, I don't know. I I feel like people are always really
hard on themselves, and they don't see all the value in themselves. But that's kinda
like what this podcast is for me is, like, I'm in real time
seeing like all the awesome things that people do
and getting to witness it and, hopefully reflect
some of it back to them, and share it with other people.
Yeah. Thank you for listening to
Working Towards Our Purpose. If you liked today's episode and are interested
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show notes, where I share thoughts, tips, and ideas that I'm
learning along my journey to help inspire you. The show was produced
by Pleasant Podcast at pleasantpodcast.com.