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Two founders talk about how to build software businesses that are meant to last. Each episode includes a deep dive into a different topic related to starting, growing, and sustaining a healthy business.
00:00.95
Tyler King
Okay.
00:01.10
Rick
What's up this week, Tyler?
00:03.56
Tyler King
Not a lot. How are you doing?
00:06.04
Rick
Just chilling.
00:07.67
Tyler King
Just chilling. Yeah. We were saying right before we hit record, neither of us feels like we have anything interesting to talk about.
00:08.59
Rick
Yeah.
00:12.60
Tyler King
So listener, you are in for a treat here.
00:16.92
Rick
ah if you yeah If you want to save yourself some time, just ah press pause or next or whatever whatever the podcast app says to do. do
00:24.51
Tyler King
No, I got some stuff. I'm going to start with the clickbait here. Uh, blue sky it's back. And since you're. So hilariously offline, do you even know what blue sky is?
00:34.08
Rick
I think it's the, is it the Twitter alternative?
00:36.98
Tyler King
Yes, it is. Have you tried it? Have you heard anything about this?
00:40.52
Rick
I've never been to the website, I'm looking at it right now. It looks like Twitter in the old days.
00:42.95
Tyler King
Yeah. It is hilarious how they're not even trying to like it's the exact same shade of blue. It's a butterfly instead of a bird. The user interface is identical to Twitter, which I love. That's what everyone wants is just Twitter from like at least pre Elon Twitter. But honestly, even I think like 10 years ago, Twitter is what people really want. And that's what it is. And yeah, I i don't know if I mentioned it on the podcast, I tried it out like I think a year ago or something back when it was invite only.
01:14.47
Tyler King
I thought it was cool, but like there wasn't anyone there. And so I was part of the problem and I left and went back to Twitter. And, but now I think it has a critical mass of people where it's, it's for me, uh, good enough to fully replace Twitter.
01:27.26
Rick
whoa Whoa.
01:28.78
Tyler King
Yeah. I'm not like canceling my, my Twitter account or whatever.
01:29.39
Rick
so
01:31.45
Tyler King
Cause you know, sometimes you need to DM someone or whatever, but I am not checking. I don't have the Twitter app installed on my phone. I'm not checking it anymore. I'm like, when I'm sitting on my couch, scrolling, I'm scrolling on blue sky instead of Twitter now.
01:44.06
Rick
and And what is it doing for you that Twitter or X, I should say, um was not doing?
01:51.36
Tyler King
um Okay. The product is very similar to what Twitter was pre Elon. Let's talk about like what got worse about the product post Elon. I think it's primarily that engagement bait got like the algorithm got way more like tick tock or Instagram, where it's just like, what's going to get the most engagement from people, which means you see a a bunch of stuff that's irrelevant to you, but also a bunch of stuff that just makes you feel bad. Like.
02:17.46
Tyler King
you know, a lot of political stuff. I don't follow political shit on, on Twitter, but I still see a bunch of it if you use the algorithmic feed. So your only options to use the following feed where you, you just see what your followers tweet, but then if you're not checking it constantly, you know, you're seeing like what someone ate for breakfast. You're not seeing their like banger of a tweet from six hours ago. So like I want an algorithmic feed that mostly shows me stuff I'm actually interested in that. So it's basically just Twitter, what Twitter was before that changed from a product standpoint.
02:46.27
Rick
Got it.
02:47.35
Tyler King
But then I also think there's like the community thing. Have we talked about the term eternal September? Do you know what that is?
02:52.49
Rick
No, no, I don't know what that is.
02:54.40
Tyler King
This is, um, I think back in the early days of the internet, there was some message board at a university, I think, cause they were one of the first ones to get the internet. And every every year, like they've got this kind of unspoken just culture and in this online community. And then every year, the new class would come in and they'd join the community. And they wouldn't know all the norms and stuff. And stuff would get worse for a while. And then they'd learn the norms and it would get better. But the term eternal September means like once a social network or website ah of any kind reaches a certain level of users,
03:27.50
Tyler King
There's just, it's always bad in the way that it's bad when all the freshmen were coming in. Um, I feel like Twitter has hit eternal September. Blue sky is more early adopters, more it's like actual humans interacting with other humans about stuff they're interested in. It just has a different feel, even though the product itself is not wildly different.
03:49.53
Rick
Interesting.
03:50.54
Tyler King
Yeah. Now my, my, my critique of it is a third of the posts on it are just people talking about blue sky and it's like, all right, let's move on.
03:50.97
Rick
I'll check it out.
03:59.10
Tyler King
Let's start talking about other stuff.
04:00.82
Rick
I mean, the main the main value I've always gotten out of Twitter is not the feed. It's more about real time news.
04:09.03
Tyler King
Hmm.
04:09.21
Rick
um And so that that use case, I don't doesn't sound like Blue Sky is going to improve upon that necessarily, but it could be another source for real time news.
04:18.62
Tyler King
Yes. And I mean, a big question, of course, is, well, one reason I'm excited about this. How, when's the last time there was a major new social network? And you might say TikTok. I would argue that's not a social network. That's just media. Like people place where is where people are actually a graph of people talking to each other.
04:36.99
Rick
I mean, Reddit is the one that comes to mind is more recent than any other ones I can think of, but that was a long time ago, right?
04:43.41
Tyler King
Yeah. That's from like 2008 or something.
04:45.10
Rick
Yeah.
04:45.94
Tyler King
um Yeah, it's but it's been a long time. So part of it is it's just exciting. Um, anyway, sorry, you were saying news. A big question here is what does the growth curve look like? Like there, there's a range of possible scenarios here. One is that it completely dies. One is that it levels off where it is and it's, it's big enough for me, but it's not like the place the journalists are. I don't think it's that out of the question that, you know, a year from now it is the main place journalists are, especially as, as Twitter continues to deteriorate.
05:15.15
Rick
Can you, um, can you tell, and for, for when I say news, I actually mean non-journalist based news and more about like, uh, uh, like social, social news.
05:25.48
Rick
Like it's about what, what, why isn't this player on the court of this NBA game that like, it's like insider news.
05:30.05
Tyler King
Oh yeah. Yeah.
05:32.59
Rick
Um, and just like, uh, you know, so, so does that, that's what I was referring to. Just, just to clarify.
05:37.70
Tyler King
I could see that stuff moving too though.
05:38.84
Rick
Yeah.
05:39.42
Tyler King
I mean, it's, it's just a question of, does it have enough gravity to pull in everyone else?
05:39.83
Rick
Yeah.
05:44.22
Tyler King
But I did have one thing to say about this sort of related.
05:44.28
Rick
Yeah.
05:46.92
Rick
but I just want to say this first.
05:48.12
Tyler King
Yeah.
05:48.40
Rick
I'm going to let you figure this out and you tell me once it's reached critical mass and then I'll set up an account.
05:53.61
Tyler King
Yeah. Well, you never really were a heavy Twitter user to begin with, right?
05:57.35
Rick
I tried a couple of times. I just, I don't know.
06:01.17
Tyler King
Yeah, it's not, you're I'm being authentic and it works on Twitter.
06:01.41
Rick
and Yeah.
06:05.82
Tyler King
I don't think your authentic version of yourself, Twitter's not the tool for you.
06:11.12
Rick
no tool I don't think any tool is. People don't like but people don't like like my authentic self, so I just need to fix myself.
06:12.49
Tyler King
Yeah, I don't think any online one.
06:18.68
Tyler King
But no, I think you're more of a one-on-one person, right? You're not like broadcasting stuff.
06:21.04
Rick
yeah
06:22.85
Tyler King
Anyway, the the one thing I wanted to say about this, I think anytime there's a new thing, There's opportunity. um you know and An example of this is like Less Knowing Serum got a lot of its early growth from the Chrome Web Store. The Chrome Web Store is never that big, but we just got in early enough. And then it kind of had a brief moment where it was a place for people to find web apps, not not just Chrome extensions. And that worked for us. My mom's food blog, which at one point was making, I don't know, 200, $300,000 a year. like It was a real business.
06:54.28
Tyler King
it It was just because she got retweeted by the founder of Pinterest's mom when Pinterest was really taking off. Eventually, all these platforms starch out that. like You just can't get that type of early adopter, just almost like free exposure. But when something new, Shopify ah ecosystem, if you built apps on it there early, it was good for you. Now, all the value starts out. I'm mostly just saying Blue Sky could fizzle.
07:21.54
Tyler King
But there's I think there's like a part in the growth curve with these types of things where it's like significantly de-risked. It's a lot less risky than Blue Sky was a year ago when I first tried it. it's is If I were looking for an idea of a thing to build, I would i would take a serious look at this because you could potentially be in early on that wave.
07:38.76
Rick
Well, I set up an account, so yeah i and I'm following you and Blue Sky.
07:40.95
Tyler King
Nice.
07:44.97
Rick
I'm gonna unfollow Blue Sky.
07:46.48
Tyler King
Unfollow. I'm the only one.
07:47.88
Rick
ah You have ah social proof, one more social proof that you're a good follow.
07:52.15
Tyler King
Yeah. Does our, we have a startup to last Twitter account. Does it still auto put? I don't even, neither of us really manager, right? It just maybe gets, it's just like, uh, yeah.
07:58.92
Rick
No, I think it does. um I have a question for you. like look When I set up the account for Blue Sky, it had, ah Like dot blue sky and your says dot app. Like, what does that mean?
08:10.35
Tyler King
Yeah. So, okay. This is very cool also. So, you know how with like a verification on Twitter, there have been two different modes. One is like right now you just pay money and you're verified. They don't actually verify anything.
08:20.92
Tyler King
They just put that blue check mark next to you.
08:21.43
Rick
Yeah.
08:22.83
Tyler King
Previously you had to like submit, I don't know, your driver's license or they somehow verified that you were authentically who you said you were. Um, blue sky is meant to be decentralized in various ways. And there are a lot of very cool things they're doing that you probably wouldn't notice at first, but this is one of them. The way you verify yourself is you can just make your domain into your blue sky handle.
08:46.29
Tyler King
Um, so I could, I use Tyler King dot app, which I don't actually have a website there. So that's not actually a useful form of identity verification, but if I used less annoying serum dot.com, I could prove to people like this account is definitely Tyler King because I own the less knowing serum domain.
09:01.50
Rick
And you verified the domain setting. Oh, that's smart. So basically, that's OK.
09:04.25
Tyler King
Yeah.
09:05.52
Rick
And what what is that .app, though? Like, why is yours dot .app and mine was bluesky.something?
09:10.07
Tyler King
Well, so I'll admit, i' I'm saying what what I know here is not fully complete. So I might be getting some of this wrong.
09:16.26
Rick
Oh, you you own tylerking.app.
09:16.38
Tyler King
But I own tylerking dot.app.
09:19.07
Rick
Ah, got it. OK. Smart.
09:21.28
Tyler King
um Yeah.
09:22.10
Rick
So I could do that with ricklynquist.com.
09:22.60
Tyler King
it Yes, you could. And one of the, so like, yeah Did you play around with Mastodon at all back in the day? Like that was kind of the OG decentralized thing to move off Twitter.
09:33.87
Rick
No negative.
09:34.29
Tyler King
Decentralization kind of sucks because it's confusing and where is stuff, but blue sky is doing that's kind of brilliant. I think is it's basically a centralized service that everything's on blue sky by default, but you could make your own separate servers and stuff, but like almost like no one's ever going to have to deal with any of that.
09:52.01
Tyler King
And unless we all want to move off of the main blue sky centralized service. I'm mostly saying that when you sign up, you're getting the whatever dot blue sky dot app thing. That in theory, other providers could offer a signup flow to blue sky and it would be on their domain instead of the blue sky one.
10:12.39
Tyler King
I don't know if that makes sense or is that's probably not even interesting, even if it does make sense, but yeah.
10:16.12
Rick
Yeah, it did make sense to me, but it sounds like a ah like for people who understand that stuff, it sounds like a good thing.
10:25.04
Tyler King
Yeah. And they have other cool stuff. Like you can make your own block list. So I, I've never been popular enough to deal with harassment online, but, um, there's this really tricky question. How's Facebook going to moderate content? How's blue sky going to moderate content with blue sky? Anyone can be like, I am now a moderator. I'm going to, I'm going to moderate things myself and anyone can opt into my moderation. So if there's like a group of like-minded people who are like, we really don't want these certain type of people harassing us. One of them can just be like, I'm going to go block them all. And then everyone can inherit those settings.
10:54.14
Rick
and cool Oh, Well, thank you for sharing.
10:54.89
Tyler King
So there's a lot of cool stuff like that, I think.
10:59.38
Rick
you You have educated me on something I did not know about and I think moved me forward technologically.
11:04.96
Tyler King
Nice. Not that I expect you to be, uh, become addicted to to blue sky.
11:10.52
Rick
Nope.
11:11.01
Tyler King
Nope.
11:11.52
Rick
Shouldn't, uh, open romance going well.
11:12.89
Tyler King
Anyway, what's up with you?
11:16.77
Rick
It's like better pace than years past this early.
11:16.97
Tyler King
Nice.
11:20.29
Rick
And it feels like 10 times as calm, which is crazy kind of feels crazy. So I think the work that I think the renewal work to automate the renewal process with JD, I think took a lot of anxiety and like reactive pressure off the first few weeks.
11:26.94
Tyler King
Yeah, why does it feel calmer, do you think?
11:38.03
Rick
And then I just, the other JD and I were talking about it. And, and I think what one part of the entrepreneurial journey that employees when you get they get hired don't understand is the amount of stuff that you don't know that you have to figure out on the fly that by the time an an employee is being hired has already been figured out. And I feel like JD is reaching that point where it's like, ah,
12:00.72
Rick
i don't have like I know the answer to that question. um I have enough pattern recognition and experience ah serving customers ah like this that 90% of the time, 95, 99% of the time, we're just going through the the playbook versus, oh crap, let me get back to you.
12:18.88
Rick
And it's like, oh, I don't know if I would be able to solve that problem, um which which also like you know spins up yeah ah learning ah you know learning ah strings.
12:22.31
Tyler King
yeah
12:29.89
Rick
and That is hard on your brain.
12:31.94
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
12:32.48
Rick
It is hard on, you you have to talk to someone about it.
12:32.90
Tyler King
Yeah, it's exhausting.
12:35.18
Rick
And so I just feel like he's, you know, we're just executing and what I'm very curious, like if this continues, like it's going to be a really good open enrollment. And then second, I think what it bodes very well for next year.
12:47.82
Tyler King
Mm hmm. Is there any I know you just gave a reason why it's calmer Do you have any hypothesis for why? so So my memory of last year was open enrollment starts.
13:00.98
Tyler King
I thought it was going to be a big deal because like, I don't know this industry that well. I don't know if you knew what was, but nothing happened until the very end of open enrollment because like, okay, people can technically get health insurance right now, but no one's thinking about it until the very last minute.
13:12.74
Tyler King
So basically nothing happened until like the last week or two.
13:15.59
Rick
Yep.
13:16.09
Tyler King
Things are happening here. Do you have a sense of why we're having more success actually getting new customers and stuff like that?
13:23.47
Rick
ah Again, I think it's less reactive. um I don't know. like we have he he I would say renewals took him a lot of time last year.
13:29.22
Tyler King
But JD emailed everyone last year at the beginning. He just did it manually instead of automated.
13:39.66
Rick
He was tracking it on. He did a lot of preparation. So if you think about like October, Um, and like the first couple of parts of like weeks of November, he was preparing for opening for renewals.
13:50.07
Rick
He wasn't seeking out new clients. And so I think, uh, October this year was more, less about renewals and more about what's my prospecting plan.
13:59.22
Tyler King
and
14:00.48
Rick
Uh, I've got all these opportunities I've created over the course of the last year. How do I re-engage them? What's, what's my cadence? What are my priorities in terms of the, the, the ponds, fishing ponds I'm going to fish in.
14:12.79
Rick
And I think that's, that's bearing fruit.
14:13.02
Tyler King
Okay, so because he didn't yeah, go ahead sorry Yeah, okay that makes sense
14:14.56
Rick
ah versus versus I would just say just versus like last year I think he he had this ah more of like a oh like if they call me I'll serve them but I don't have time to reach out to people.
14:28.79
Tyler King
Yeah, that is the that is exciting. um We'll see. i Do you remember last year? Like at what point? Because I was kind of worried last year. I was like, oh, shit, like nothing's happening.
14:39.35
Tyler King
I don't get the impression you were. But like at what point could it end up being a I would say, OK, but not great. Open enrollment last year. Does that sound right to you?
14:47.51
Rick
Yeah, I was good enough.
14:49.91
Tyler King
At what point did it go from nothing's happening to like, oh, we can tell this is good enough.
14:54.59
Rick
After Thanksgiving.
14:55.94
Tyler King
Okay. So probably after Thanksgiving this year, we'll have, we'll, we'll be able to say it's at least going well enough.
14:56.59
Rick
Yeah.
15:02.05
Tyler King
Right. But like, is this, is this going to be like, Oh my God, this is incredible or just okay.
15:05.21
Rick
Yeah. Yep. Yep.
15:08.04
Tyler King
Yep.
15:08.74
Rick
And I think like the the the wild card that I don't know about is just the ah the last minute referrals that come in. Um, how many of those are going to be businesses that are multi, you know, sort of thousands of dollars of revenue, um, versus, uh, per year versus like, uh, you know, a consumer policy is about 500 a year.
15:19.32
Tyler King
Hmm.
15:28.53
Rick
Um, and that's what i we can't predict is, is this going to be a good open enrollment for consumers or a good open enrollment for businesses or both?
15:38.78
Tyler King
Yeah.
15:39.79
Rick
I hope it's both.
15:40.32
Tyler King
Oh yeah. Is there anything you and JD are talking about to like change right now? Like, is there any kind of scrambling to figure things out right now? Or is it just like, just keep executing the playbook?
15:52.13
Rick
Just keep executing the playbook. I think the area that I wish I had done a better job of supporting him on, but I'm less worried about it this year, more worried about it for next year is just the demand generation stuff where we we figure out how to like get emails out to the people that he's not touching um with with less of a sales message and more of a ah education and a free offer.
16:01.26
Tyler King
Mm hmm.
16:13.02
Rick
um and But I think you know ah that'll happen. um The other area is just content management, which we talked about. I've got ah an item on here related to data data set management. um But yeah, I think it's just let them let them let them run this neck, we're going to be a good place beginning the year. And then I'm starting to think about like, okay, next year, like, what are the ways we're going to help? Like, it doesn't take many opportunities to grow the business to x again.
16:40.13
Tyler King
Mhm.
16:40.36
Rick
It's just about getting high quality opportunities and consistently um with but with with ah kind of that small, like medium sized small business, like 20 employees. If we can get 10 of those opportunities in the first half of the year, we basically double the business.
16:56.32
Tyler King
Yeah.
16:57.16
Rick
And so i'm what I'm thinking about is like, what I wanted to throw out in this one is I believe that sponsor, maybe perhaps like sponsoring events that are happening that are more intimate that basically allow us to pay couple thousand bucks to be ah a sponsor.
17:14.69
Rick
Plus, you know we get up in front of everyone saying, hey, we're leg up health. We get to ah participate in the event. um And if it has 10 or more ICP, Utah business owners in that intimate gathering, then our conversion rate should be 10%, I think, like of getting one of those people to but become a customer in a year.
17:37.13
Rick
um Then it's like that pays for itself.
17:38.51
Tyler King
That feels high to me, but I mean, it could still pay for itself, but 10 percent going into an event that's not about health insurance and getting a 10 percent conversion rate seems high.
17:49.37
Rick
i think i I think it's, what's that?
17:49.62
Tyler King
But haven't you done this before? Haven't you done this before?
17:53.23
Rick
Yeah. I mean, if we look back at our like historical customers, most of them have come from sponsoring conferences and but communities.
17:53.88
Tyler King
like
17:59.67
Tyler King
Oh, really? OK. Yeah, I remember there was.
18:02.12
Rick
Chambers of Commerce, pan ah Panda Labs, um and that those were more like
18:03.07
Tyler King
Yeah, OK.
18:07.97
Rick
mass sponsorships. I'm talking about much more like targeted and intimate gathering sponsorships, like like Big Snow Tiny Conf, that was a Utah small business CEO.
18:18.18
Rick
I would pay $3,000 to sponsor a dinner for you guys.
18:22.30
Tyler King
Hmm.
18:23.11
Rick
and ah yeah no No, that's probably not the right crowd for this, but like you know it's that size event and it's like, listen, like
18:26.44
Tyler King
Right, but that size of event.
18:31.06
Rick
get to know i know Our issue is getting that conversation. Once we get a conversation and someone goes, oh, we trust you. When I have a health insurance question, I'm gonna call you guys, because you're clearly the most trustworthy health insurance agent we've ever met.
18:43.67
Rick
um That's gonna get us the opportunity in the future.
18:44.01
Tyler King
Yeah. What I especially, I especially like this idea. If you can like layer on multiple touch points that the same type of people are going to get exposed to where like, what I think what you want is for a certain type of person, you just be like, I'm not thinking about health insurance right now, but when I do, it's, I know that.
19:02.71
Tyler King
leg up health is, is the the one to go to. And like, I have this with various things where I'm like click house is the analytics database planet scale is the my SQL hosting company. Like there are 10 competitors to each of these, but I just know they're the main one. Um, if you, if you're, if your name just appears in enough places, then all of these people will probably be like, Oh yeah, leg up health. They're the ones that do health insurance for people like me.
19:28.18
Rick
Yeah, not thinking about it right now, but when you are thinking about it, I'm going to call them.
19:32.67
Tyler King
Yeah. Then again, you're, you're saying though, like you probably would, you'd need some level of immediate conversions for this to.
19:38.39
Rick
No, I don't think so.
19:39.17
Tyler King
and know
19:39.35
Rick
i just like just just I think we just need to know that, like hey, yeah. like we were able to profile this full group. Maybe we we just like, you know, how many of you offer a group health insurance?
19:50.06
Rick
Raise your hands.
19:50.25
Tyler King
Yeah.
19:50.66
Rick
Okay. ah And then we know sort of like, okay. um Some of those are gonna, if we, I don't think it needs to be immediate. I just think it needs to be like, oh yeah, we know this is an opportunity this year.
20:01.45
Tyler King
So why'd you stop doing this stuff in the past?
20:04.13
Rick
ah Just cut cash conservation.
20:07.94
Tyler King
And the idea here is like, there's, but they're probably by the end of this open enrollment will have been enough growth that there's a little more money to spend. And this is the the next best idea on how to spend it.
20:15.76
Rick
Yes. And there's like, now that we're kind of at this place, it's like, okay, well, um, maybe we should, maybe I should go ahead and get ahead of the skis a little bit.
20:25.58
Tyler King
Yeah. but Okay. Another issue I could imagine, like who's going to these events? Someone has to show up. Like if you just put your logo on something, no, no, sorry.
20:31.95
Rick
CEOs.
20:33.54
Tyler King
You are JD.
20:35.17
Rick
One of us has to go.
20:36.52
Tyler King
Yeah, I know. So like you have a limited amount of time and JD lives in Texas.
20:41.03
Rick
yeah Yep.
20:42.07
Tyler King
Is that a ah problem?
20:42.34
Rick
Yep. I mean, only if JD doesn't want to fly to Utah.
20:47.79
Tyler King
Yeah. If he has to fly out for every single one of these events, it it changes the economics probably.
20:52.83
Rick
I'm only, I'm not saying do like more than one, ah one or like five of these, like i don't I would do maybe one to see how it goes.
20:56.24
Tyler King
Oh you're just saying do one, okay.
21:00.06
Rick
And then I don't think we need to do more than five or six of these.
21:03.91
Tyler King
Okay.
21:04.98
Rick
We only need five flights.
21:05.35
Tyler King
That's still a lot of flying back and forth even even if you're doing six.
21:11.97
Rick
That seems like a good use. of I mean, based on what we've learned with JD being in Utah, that's a good use of the best thing he can do to grow the business is be in Utah in person at ah with a meeting with business owners.
21:24.86
Tyler King
Sure. Yeah. Okay. Well, i I mean, definitely do one and see how it goes. I, I could see that being.
21:28.87
Rick
Are you talking about it's cost prohibitive from a budget perspective?
21:29.48
Tyler King
a
21:32.29
Rick
Or are you saying ah from a lifestyle perspective?
21:35.02
Tyler King
Both, I think just like if, if he were in Utah or if you had the bandwidth to do this yourself, it's very different.
21:35.77
Rick
Okay.
21:42.85
Tyler King
Like, Oh, it's a Thursday night, 5 PM to 6 30 PM. I'm just going to go hang out at this thing and shmo schmooze with people for a bit. And then I'll go home and take care of the kids.
21:52.72
Rick
Oh no, this is more like a, that's not what I'm suggesting.
21:53.23
Tyler King
That's very different, right?
21:55.22
Rick
I'm suggesting more of like a, there is a two day work event for 50 small business owners that are going to be intimately spending time with each other sponsoring that.
22:06.45
Tyler King
Yeah. Do you know like that those events exist and like what they are?
22:09.36
Rick
Yeah, I've got one right now that I'm considering for January, um ah late January.
22:10.82
Tyler King
Okay.
22:14.34
Rick
And I i'm want to pull the trigger as an experiment. And I just, I i can't decide whether I just need to like, go, I'm funding this one. I'll take the lick. It doesn't count towards profit sharing, like whatever, like I'll own the outcome here.
22:28.09
Rick
Or if it's like, I need to get buy in, you know, that's kind of an interesting, what?
22:30.61
Tyler King
I think you got it. I don't think you I don't think it's healthy for a partner agreement for you to go. I mean, I appreciate you saying you might do that, but like I think you need everyone to feel bought in.
22:37.95
Rick
Yeah. Yeah. So that's the hard thing, right? It's just like,
22:44.33
Tyler King
Yeah. um You mentioned late January. I kind of wonder so I'm going through something right now with our boat. both our accountant, but especially our bookkeeper right now is driving us crazy. ah We're using bench, which used to be OK, and they're terrible for bookkeeping right now. um So we need to switch. But there's this thing where it's like, well, when do you, like, well, they've already done most of this year's books. So we probably want to switch next year. i But the time we want to switch most is right after taxes are filed, because we're like, oh, that sucked. I wonder if there's a similar thing in health insurance where it's like, yeah, probably the best time to get someone is during open enrollment. But right after open enrollment is when they might be like,
23:22.01
Tyler King
I don't want that again next year, you know?
23:24.54
Rick
That's a good idea. I actually, that that's a very interesting marketing campaign. Like end of January, it's like, Hey, if you had a bad open enrollment experience, make us your agent. So you don't have to have that experience again.
23:35.43
Tyler King
Yeah, I feel like a ah ah punchy copywriter could do something with like, you know, you remember how it felt when you didn't have your shit together this year? Don't let that happen again next year, like that type of thing.
23:47.78
Tyler King
Um, so anyway, I, yeah, doing something in January, I definitely like while it's still fresh in people's mind.
23:48.60
Rick
That's smart. I like that.
23:54.97
Tyler King
Um, cool. So you you're probably, can I ask JDS? Well, I guess, is he still buying leads? Do we have any updates on that? That, that to me was the most exciting growth thing, uh, that I've heard about in a bit.
24:05.24
Rick
Yeah.
24:05.68
Tyler King
you Do you know anything about that?
24:05.75
Rick
I mean, I'm super about, about which one.
24:08.02
Tyler King
Like buying leads, like any new updates there?
24:11.16
Rick
No, I need to follow up on that. I have no updates on the purchase leads. Um, I assume, uh, no news is bad news generally. Um, so, uh, I haven't heard anything.
24:18.29
Tyler King
yeah fair
24:19.86
Rick
So, um, my guess is I, I don't, I haven't seen a lot of charges come through for, for the lead. So I think it's a more of a volume issue than a quality issue. Um, or maybe, maybe JD turned it off as an experiment just to like,
24:32.73
Rick
Conserve cash. i mean i'll i'll add That's a good question. I'll follow up on that and maybe update next time.
24:36.63
Tyler King
Cool. Um, I thought I might give some updates on, uh, I think the plan is for me to just talk about form builder metrics, uh, every episode until we're bored of it, but I'm not going to give the full story every time, but just as a reminder, we're making a form tool. Customers can send it out to their customers and get submissions like lead intake forms and stuff like that. Our goal is to get 350 submissions per week by April um Yeah, I just thought I'd update. We were at 119 over the last week submissions, 119 out of 350. So Closish, that's a step in the right direction from where we were last time we talked. So things have gotten better. The downside I would say is
25:17.03
Tyler King
We kind of have like really one customer in particular. One like one customer is getting 40% of the submissions. But it's kind of streaky. It's like they have an event, or they send out an email. And I just don't like relying on that, um because I know it's just a matter of time before one of these weeks. They just didn't send an email out that week, and we get nothing.
25:35.20
Tyler King
um We haven't really been adding a ton of new active users. A lot of people have been opting into the beta, but we haven't been activating them. It's been about three weeks since we've gotten someone actually using it for real. So there's been some good and some bad over the last week, I'd say roughly neutral.
25:51.63
Rick
for the heavy For the heavy user, is there anything characteristic-wise that makes them different than the other users? Or is it does do they look just like the other users?
26:01.76
Tyler King
Um, if if you look at them and like, if you don't get to talk to them, you're just looking at like, what's their industry, what's the size of their account, that type of stuff. I don't think there's anything there. I think they're in like real estate or something like that. And you know, a ton of our customers are in real estate. I think the difference is they're just running a more like sophisticated digital business. And I don't know if there's a way it's so weird though, like their email address, cause I was trying to, I was trying to figure they're not someone I talked to. So it's trying to figure out like, who are they, what are they using this for?
26:31.31
Tyler King
So I looked their email domain and it's like a custom domain. So I went to that. It's not even set up. It's a GoDaddy like parks webpage. So they're not like that robust of a digital presence, but they're doing stuff.
26:44.03
Tyler King
They're sending emails out regularly and collecting data through this form. Um, I, yeah, I, I, I don't really see any pattern there yet, but it's a good, good thing to think about.
26:55.01
Rick
Well, it's interesting that you say GoDaddy because I i associate GoDaddy with lower so soation lower sophistication than ah what I'm used to. um and and And the fact that, yeah, but like that, maybe maybe the the maybe that is the the the signal is like they have a GoDaddy register, but they they don't have it set up and they need something easy to, less annoying is the thing that made it easy for them to finally use the web, the web the web tooling.
27:04.72
Tyler King
Yeah, but I mean, our average customer doesn't even have a custom domain, you know. Hmm.
27:24.00
Tyler King
Yeah, that's true. It also occurs to me. A lot of our customers use whatever email marketing tool they want, but like we, we have a one integration with MailChimp. We know if they have that turned on. If they have a MailChimp account, presumably that increases ah the likelihood as well.
27:41.39
Rick
But, but, but could go the opposite direction.
27:41.74
Tyler King
the other
27:42.83
Rick
It could go like if they have Mailchimp, maybe they are using Mailchimp forms or ah something, someone else's forms.
27:47.50
Tyler King
Yeah. Here's the rare situation where us having a shitty integration is a good thing. We only sync name and email. So if they're collecting data through MailChimp, it's not getting into the CRM.
27:58.35
Rick
Hmm.
27:58.94
Tyler King
So I still think we have an offer for them.
28:00.99
Rick
That's great.
28:01.20
Tyler King
um
28:01.35
Rick
I mean, I would definitely like push a target offer to Mailchimp users and see if that doesn't get you some power users.
28:07.18
Tyler King
Yeah, that's not a bad idea. so So another challenge we've had, we've actually got a good flow of, so again, the setup is everyone in their Lesser Knowing Serum account, if they go into the settings, there's a thing called form builder. If they click on it, it's like opt into the beta. Like this is a beta test, press this button to opt in. And then we review it. And the reason for us reviewing it is like, if if they don't seem like a big opportunity, we just turn it on for them and send them a help video. Otherwise we're kind of like, Hey, do you want to talk? Do you want to get on the, we offer to talk to everyone, but we push it harder.
28:36.29
Tyler King
It's just no, basically very few people want to talk. Um, everyone just wants us to turn it on. And so that is another one of the challenges where the the calls we get go really, really well. Cause back in the day I required everyone to talk to me. I was like, I will not turn this on if you don't talk to me. Do I have to go back to that? Like, um, cause people just aren't taking the call anymore.
28:59.66
Rick
Your call.
29:00.05
Tyler King
There's a flip side to this too, which is the first 100, 200 people we invited, they so filled out a form a year ago saying they wanted a form builder. The people now are just like stumbling upon it in the app. It's like a different group of people. So i I'm kind of torn between, I think where we are right now is in this like dead zone where there's there's too much friction to use it. People can't just go in and start using it, but there's not enough friction that we're actually getting very many calls. So I think I either need to just let anyone opt into it you know just turn it on to everyone, basically launch it. Or go back to, no, you have to talk to me. We're still in beta.
29:35.59
Rick
Do you feel like you have, uh, you need more data on, on, the you know, on this or is then that's pretty much just annoying, right?
29:40.61
Tyler King
No.
29:43.92
Rick
Like that goes against less annoying.
29:44.37
Tyler King
Well, there's there's two reasons for the call.
29:46.45
Rick
Okay.
29:46.69
Tyler King
OK, you're right. It is annoying. There's two reasons for the call.
29:48.29
Rick
Yeah.
29:48.73
Tyler King
One is for us to learn. And I think we we're still learning a bit, but I think we we know the next three months we're going to do. So we don't need that. The second one is to help them activate. and
29:59.36
Rick
You can offer to help someone activate after they've enabled the feature.
29:59.83
Tyler King
you know
30:04.02
Tyler King
Yeah, that's what we're doing right now, and no one's taking us up on it, which I suspect is part of the reason why, even though we've onboarded a lot of new people in the last three weeks, not a single one of them has actually started using it regularly.
30:05.50
Rick
yeah
30:16.92
Tyler King
um its I'm always skeptical of this, but like companies like HubSpot, I don't know if they still do, but I know they used to, they have this, like, when you sign up, there's like a mandatory thousand dollar set up fee.
30:25.33
Rick
Yeah. Customer success.
30:27.20
Tyler King
I know you've, yeah, you've doubled with, uh, yeah, I hit it too, but there's a reason for it, right?
30:27.55
Rick
Yeah. I hate that.
30:33.48
Tyler King
Even if it were free, there it like people, it motivates people to, to get started.
30:42.72
Tyler King
What you said earlier though, is we're called less annoying CRM. That's annoying. Is that the end of the conversation you think?
30:47.83
Rick
Yeah, yeah like I mean, if there's no value provided, that that I don't know. if If you can't...
30:52.99
Tyler King
There is.
30:56.26
Tyler King
It's like making someone eat their vegetables, right? It's like it's good for them that they ate the vegetables.
30:59.37
Rick
That's annoying.
31:01.43
Tyler King
It's annoying, but it's also good for them.
31:02.65
Rick
Yeah, so I don't know. I i think when there's a major, there's very low there's there's questionable um benefit from like ah from from annoying being annoying.
31:14.80
Rick
like That goes back to your... core positioning of like less annoying, unless that's not the positioning anymore.
31:18.05
Tyler King
Yeah.
31:20.93
Tyler King
No, it is, but it's all, it is legitimately a beta feature. Um, anyway, we're already moving in the direction. You're saying I'm mostly just, uh, talking through it, but I suspect.
31:30.35
Rick
What are you scared of? Like it feels, it feels like you're like generally like when, when it's not just like, oh yeah, that I'm going to be less annoying here. It's usually because there's something that you're worried about.
31:40.86
Rick
Like what, what are you?
31:41.08
Tyler King
Yeah. It's cause things worked better when we were talking to everybody.
31:44.50
Rick
by better being more activation more usage post activation.
31:46.90
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah, what I'm scared of is we launched this to everybody. Everyone sees it and is like, oh, that looks cool. And then they just don't use it. Whereas if I'm like, get on the phone with me. Yeah. Uh, it's sort of the equivalent of like taking a credit card upfront for a SAS, which we don't do to be clear, but it's like, yeah, fewer people get through, get to the free trial, but the people who do are more likely to use it and potentially, you know, depends on the business, but.
32:12.60
Tyler King
Again, it's apples to oranges because the first cohort was a different group of people from the second cohort.
32:18.59
Rick
Yeah, yeah.
32:18.85
Tyler King
But the first cohort went way better than the second cohort in terms of them actually using it. That's what I'm scared of is that we've got 26, well, 25,000 more people to launch this to.
32:30.00
Tyler King
But if we just do our normal launch plan, we're going to get a very, very small percentage of them actually engaged.
32:36.18
Rick
I see what you're saying. Okay.
32:38.43
Tyler King
Um, but I also don't think requiring every single one of them to do a call with me is a viable strategy either. So what I'm thinking right now is launch it. It probably won't have the impact I want and then spend the next year ah going back to maybe this isn't our position, but annoying the shit out of people about it being like, you wanted this.
32:57.05
Tyler King
You told us you wanted this feature. Go use it.
32:59.87
Rick
You're not using it.
33:00.80
Tyler King
Yeah.
33:01.40
Rick
Yeah. Why aren't you using it?
33:03.56
Tyler King
Yeah, exactly. So anyway, I don't want to make it seem like it's doom and gloom. Things are still. up and to the right for now, but I'm not sure I see the truth. We need we need some kind of unlock here to get to the next level of adoption.
33:15.04
Rick
Makes sense. ah Thanks for the update. I really love this. I love following along on this. It's it's fun.
33:20.76
Tyler King
Yeah. ill I'll keep sharing, but yeah, ah back to you. What's up?
33:25.96
Rick
Uh, so, uh, last episode we talked about, um, public datasets. Uh, I think they're public access file or public use files, puff files that is what they're called. and Anyway, the progress I've made is that I've set up a big, uh, query account. I've started reading about, about this stuff just to kind of get familiar with. So a lot of like very complex terms when you set up a big query account that I don't understand.
33:49.40
Rick
um that like have data in front of them or behind them. And then there's like ah an adverb of some kind that modifies it. I'm like, what does this mean? But it's a whole like feature.
33:56.31
Tyler King
Yeah, it's like, they well, blah, blah, blah, you know, like random acronyms thrown in there.
33:58.79
Rick
Yeah, exactly. Extraction, data extraction, extractor extractorly data or predictive data or, um I don't know. But ah what's cool, and I haven't confirmed that the datasets I want are already available, but BigQuery, like it's onboarding is pretty slick.
34:17.17
Rick
like It's tied to your your Google workspace account, so it's like it recognizes you immediately. Second thing that happens is it goes, hey, if you're interested in exploring public ah data, click here.
34:30.15
Rick
We have a library already available here, and you can just turn it on. um I haven't found the specific files that I want, but like there's a potential that the files that I want are already in BigQuery, which kind of gets to like what why is this still so hard for me to go get?
34:36.72
Tyler King
Hmm.
34:43.65
Rick
like Why hasn't someone made it easy for me to go search these data? Because it seems like it's already in the tools that you need to be able to analyze it. So I'm still very early, but so far, I think this is going to be a not as ah large of a technical hurdle as I thought it was going to be.
34:52.12
Tyler King
Yeah.
34:59.78
Rick
um And then it could even be easier than what ah significantly easier than what I thought it was going to be.
35:06.78
Tyler King
Great. And this is, so I always thought of BigQuery as like a very like backend low level technical thing, but it sounds like it's maybe it isn't to that, and I'm wrong, or maybe it is that, but it's also like a business intelligence kind of Tableau alternative.
35:23.30
Rick
Uh, the way they position themselves as a fully managed, I believe AI ready, like data platform. So I think like at the very base level, it's a data warehouse, but then they've built on like a bunch of features to help you activate, like make the data useful.
35:41.24
Tyler King
Yeah.
35:41.36
Rick
And I don't know if that's what you mean by business analytics or intelligence. Um, but I, I believe like you can pretty much do anything you want to with the data once it's in bakery.
35:49.32
Tyler King
But like, what is, I don't, I've heard the term data warehouse a million times. What's the use case of a date? I get business, business intelligence. that I understand it is like there are finance people, there are. marketing people who want to be able to query the data, but you don't want to give them production access to your, let's say my SQL database. A because they might fuck up something or have a privacy leak or something, or, and B because like they don't know how to use a date. They can't like query the data themselves because they're not programmers. So it's like sink all that data into Tableau or BigQuery. And then that lets non-technical people query it and pull the insights they want out of it. Is that all a data warehouses or is like,
36:28.92
Rick
I think it's i they think the other thing is that they it's it's not something that you have to manage servers for.
36:29.57
Tyler King
why are Why are people using these?
36:35.90
Rick
So like it's managed for you and you just basically put the data there and they figure out how to manage
36:41.67
Tyler King
Yeah, but the data is coming from your database. You're still managing your own database, right? I mean, in this case, you're using a public dataset, but I think that's not the majority use case here, probably.
36:47.77
Rick
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know is the answer. Um, I will learn more, but, uh, from a more technical perspective, it seems like, I don't know what your use case would be for this with your database.
36:58.26
Tyler King
Mm-hmm.
36:58.86
Rick
Like what would you use big query for? I don't know. That would be an interesting thing to to to explore.
37:01.92
Tyler King
Yeah.
37:04.36
Tyler King
Yeah. Um, okay, cool. So you're, you're looking into big query and what's the outcome you want here? You want to get this public data set with all these businesses that have to file their health insurance stuff and you want to see.
37:15.41
Rick
I want to give JD leads that are likely, like I want to have a good list of of companies and people and contact information to hand JD of people in Utah that are likely to be, you know, ah but have budget for benefits that um ah have gusto as a payroll company.
37:17.22
Tyler King
Mm-hmm.
37:34.81
Tyler King
And this will tell you if they use gusto.
37:36.90
Rick
ah ah the The hypothesis I have is that the 401k provider ah who is on the 5500 is if it is a certain 401k provider, the likelihood that they that company, that that ah employer also has gusto is like 80 plus percent because they are the partner for gusto for 401k.
37:56.99
Tyler King
Gotcha. Is it a census trust in bank or whatever?
38:02.26
Rick
i don't know what I don't know what it's labeled on in the 450 500, but there is a,
38:02.57
Tyler King
That's our, okay.
38:05.93
Tyler King
Cause we use gusto and we have a forum K through them and that that's who it is.
38:07.17
Rick
Yeah, exactly. So there's a, there is a one provider and then it's called, it's branded something, but I think the actual bank or whatever the fiduciary that is listed on the 450, 500 is not the same brand, but we need to connect those two.
38:21.16
Rick
And then once we can, uh, we should be able to say like, if you have that as your fiduciary, the likeliness that you have gusto as well as like X percent.
38:22.64
Tyler King
Yeah.
38:29.29
Rick
Um, and then if you know, even more likely, if you have that and 20 employees, um, and then, you know, uh, use that as a prospect, you must.
38:29.88
Tyler King
Yeah.
38:37.42
Tyler King
Yeah, cool. Does it also have like who their HSA provider is who their dental and health providers are? No, just wrong.
38:43.56
Rick
Nope. Not unless they have a greater than a hundred employees.
38:44.89
Tyler King
Okay.
38:47.04
Tyler King
Gotcha. And that's, you're not targeting people that size, right?
38:48.37
Rick
That's outside of our, yep.
38:50.88
Tyler King
Cool.
38:50.88
Rick
Nope.
38:51.48
Tyler King
Well, uh, looking forward to hearing more updates on that too. And at some point you'll get that data and give it to me and all do something with it in our actual database.
39:01.70
Rick
If ever get that far, I, my my backup plan is just to do what I've always done, which is just create a custom spreadsheet, which I don't want to do.
39:03.76
Tyler King
Cool.
39:11.69
Tyler King
Yeah. Can you hire an in like a a high school kid to do that for you or is, does it it require expertise?
39:19.63
Rick
Uh, I don't trust a high school kid, attention to detail, to like with people, things that are going to impact people's health insurance coverage understanding.
39:22.74
Tyler King
Yeah.
39:26.71
Tyler King
Fair enough.
39:28.19
Rick
Yeah.
39:28.34
Tyler King
Um, cool.
39:30.95
Rick
A last thing for me is just, yeah, last thing for me is just, uh, are you, what do you think about that?
39:31.15
Tyler King
You want to go into your next one? Yeah.
39:36.43
Rick
Like all the coverage of the election results and the action cut, stemming from those?
39:45.17
Tyler King
What do you mean?
39:46.21
Rick
Uh,
39:48.71
Rick
There's a, it feels like 2025 is going to be a year of a lot of change.
39:53.42
Tyler King
Oh, yeah. um
39:55.15
Rick
That's what it's shaking up to be from my perspective. I'm just curious what your reaction, if you feel that way too, or if you think this is all just fluff.
40:02.56
Tyler King
Who the hell knows? um I think chaos is the operative word, but I think like it can there's a scenario where it cancels itself out. like For example, nominating Matt Gaetz for attorney general, it seems like won't pass. And ah people always want to be like, oh, they're playing 5D chess or whatever. And it's like, they're doing this to distract away from these other nominations or whatever. And maybe that's going on, but I doubt it. It seems like it's possible people just spend their, like the first time Trump was president, they tried to get rid of the Affordable Care Act and it failed. It took them months to pick a speaker of the house.
40:42.53
Tyler King
when they had the majority, like, well, of course they have the majority. They're picking the speaker. Uh, there's a scenario where the whole thing is such a clusterfuck that nothing gets done, but yeah, it seems like more likely than not that a ah bunch of really wild stuff changes in unpredictable ways. I agree with you.
41:00.20
Rick
So anyway, I'm thinking about that. I'm trying to, it's so chaotic that I like i don't even know where to start in terms of ah trying to predict how it's going to impact leg up health.
41:12.34
Rick
There are pretty some significant items that if they don't get a, address like, there's kind of two phases. One is like changes to the infrastructure moving forward, but then there's some things that are expiring that impact a lot of our clients, some subsidies.
41:24.63
Tyler King
ah so So they have to do something.
41:25.12
Rick
ah they have to do something. And so it's ah I think it's going to be an interesting year from a legislation standpoint. Generally, i'm I'm a fan of this type of stuff from a startup perspective, because there should be some opportunity. But you've got to be able to predict with some sort of like confidence what that opportunity is going to be to position for it. And I don't know what it's going to be. um i just I went back ah to my 11. I read a post a couple of years ago called, 11 Ways to Improve Obamacare.
41:56.61
Rick
I reread it as part of my content updates, this open enrollment. It's like, I agree with everything in that post still. Um, so I, I just, I hope that that's the direction it goes, but I, I, I don't have any information.
42:02.29
Tyler King
Yeah.
42:07.54
Rick
And so I guess what what I would ask is if like, if you Tyler see anything in the news where you think this is a, like you believe, like this makes sense to you, like ah on what the Republicans or a Congress and, and our new president might do about healthcare.
42:20.72
Rick
care I would love to read it.
42:23.23
Tyler King
Yeah, I'll let you know if I see anything I. I agree with the general premise that when there's change, when there's chaos, it creates opportunity, which I also want to acknowledge ah a lot of people could get hurt. A lot of bad stuff could happen. But if we're just focused on how it affects startups, there's opportunity. i do This one seems a little more ah bought and and paid for, then like whatever happens in the electric car industry regulation-wise is going to benefit Tesla. it's not and and Maybe some random startup around the edges will figure something out, but it's mostly going to hurt startups because Elon, once he's the winner of that market and he wants to be even more the winner. I don't know if health insurance companies are
43:10.52
Tyler King
if if one of them is driving the agenda in the same way. But it's not as obvious to me that there will be opportunity for startups because of like those forces.
43:20.47
Rick
Mm hmm.
43:21.81
Tyler King
There's nothing for you to do other than find what you can, right?
43:28.37
Rick
Yeah, so anyway, I'm going to study this more. I'll i'll ah I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm losing sleep over this and I probably shouldn't. But because I can't control it. But I usually have a better pulse.
43:37.44
Tyler King
i mean what What's your thought on, like, let's say they literally just get rid of the, uh, I'm going to use the wrong terminology, but the thing that guarantees that everyone can get health insurance and then it's kind of like price and then they get rid of the premium tax credit. So it's just kind of back to pre-Obamacare more or less. Is there like, it might be worth thinking through, is there opportunity there?
43:57.86
Rick
Absolutely, it's just not ah it's a much I would say less ah
44:06.30
Rick
what I would call like altruistic business. um It's more ah find healthy people, help healthy people.
44:09.13
Tyler King
Yeah.
44:15.18
Rick
like you're you're like incentivized but in a minute like what What Tyler's referring to is like is if in a world where and insurance companies are focused on only insuring healthy people, um it as i as an insurance agent, your job becomes find healthy people and serve them, avoid sick people.
44:33.47
Tyler King
Yeah. Yeah.
44:35.48
Rick
Um, and that goes against a lot of like what the premise is behind like a pallet, which is like a consistent experience, regardless of your personal situation.
44:41.20
Tyler King
I mean, that makes sense to me. i That is in a very like individual insurance focused world. You could imagine the reaction being, okay, we need to figure out a way to help five person businesses get group insurance.
44:54.38
Tyler King
But I get that there's only like, it's just, well, what group plans are being offered? There's there's not a ton of room for you to move the needle there.
45:01.21
Rick
Yeah. I mean, that's, that's actually a good point.
45:01.62
Tyler King
but
45:02.45
Rick
I still like, I still have an emotional reaction to your your question. Yeah. Like group most likely group health insurance in that situation becomes a lot more attractive um or some, some hybrid version of that where, uh, but yeah, like that's, that's, that's absolutely right.
45:18.87
Tyler King
Yeah. Like how hard would it be to effectively start a PEO where you're bundling multiple small businesses together, helping them all kind of get one bigger group plan that covers all of them. And so they don't have to all get their own. I don't know. Just things like that might, might be an option.
45:32.64
Rick
Yep, that totally, yeah it's a great point.
45:36.93
Tyler King
Um, Well, yeah, well, we'll see what happens. I guess ah there will be a kind of a lull for a while. Probably nothing's going to happen for a few months at at least.
45:46.23
Rick
Yeah, just I feel like in the years past, like when new presidents came in, they had an agenda, and I could read that and be like, oh yeah, that's i I'm worried about this, but i directionally, like I get where this is going. I i have i really don't know what to expect.
46:00.99
Tyler King
Well, and there's a chance nothing happens. and Maybe the stuff doesn't get renewed.
46:02.55
Rick
Yep.
46:03.87
Tyler King
But like, does Trump give a shit about health insurance? Like probably not.
46:08.47
Rick
Good point.
46:10.07
Tyler King
It's not a topic that was discussed much at all.
46:12.00
Rick
And that's, and that's probably why I feel this way is usually in the years past, it's been a hot topic. Does that mean Obamacare is working?
46:19.91
Tyler King
I think it might mean that. yeah it's That's wild to think about. How is that not a topic?
46:25.11
Rick
Yeah. Well, the economy generally trumps all worse.
46:25.94
Tyler King
Because health, health yeah.
46:29.95
Rick
Trump all.
46:30.99
Tyler King
All right. Well, I've got more topics, but probably none that'll fit into the next few minutes. So you want to call it?
46:38.76
Rick
Yeah, let's call it. If you want to review past topics and share notes, visit startplast.com. See you next time.
46:44.51
Tyler King
See ya.