Toxic Friendships, Social Rejection, and the Hidden Health Cost of Mom Groups - Ericka Sóuter on Motherhood, Connection & Emotional Wellbeing

What if the stress you feel around certain friendships is not just emotional, but something your body is carrying too? In this episode, Dr. Taz sits down with Ericka Sóuter, journalist and author of How to Have a Kid and a Life: A Survival Guide to explore the hidden health impact of toxic friendships, toxic mom groups, social rejection, motherhood, loneliness, and the deep need for real connection.

In this episode, Ericka explains why toxic female friendships can leave women feeling anxious, rejected, drained, and unsure of themselves, and how social rejection can activate the same neural pathways as physical pain. She shares how these dynamics often begin early in girlhood, continue into adulthood, and become even more complicated when motherhood raises the stakes of belonging.

Ericka and Dr. Taz discuss why so many women stay in social groups that do not feel good, often because of proximity, fear of rejection, their children’s friendships, school communities, social pressure, or the emotional cost of leaving. They also explore the different roles that show up inside toxic groups, including the queen bee, flying monkey, emotional arsonist, silent stabilizer, and disruptor.

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Friendship is not just a social issue. It is part of your health. Dr. Taz and Ericka discuss how your community body, the relationships and environments you live inside, can influence your stress, mental health, family dynamics, self-worth, and even your physical wellbeing.

Learn more about support related to this conversation:
Pediatric Mental Health: https://holplus.co/services/pediatric-mental-health/
Mental Health: https://holplus.co/services/mental-health

Dr. Taz and Ericka also discuss how mothers can model healthier friendship for their daughters, why girls need to learn what real friendship looks like, and why two trustworthy friends may be more powerful than a large social group that leaves you feeling lonely, anxious, or unseen.

If you’ve ever left a dinner, school event, group chat, mom group, or social gathering feeling smaller, tense, excluded, or emotionally drained, this episode will help you understand why that feeling matters and how to begin choosing connection that actually supports your health.

In this episode, we cover:

•  Why toxic friendships can affect your mental and physical health
•  How social rejection activates the brain like physical pain
•  Why motherhood makes belonging feel even more urgent
•  How toxic mom groups form and why women stay in them
•  The roles of the queen bee, flying monkey, emotional arsonist, stabilizer, and disruptor
•  Why girls learn friendship more from what mothers model than what they say
•  How toxic friendships can affect your home life, family dynamics, and self-worth
•  Why real connection does not require a large friend group
•  How to help daughters navigate exclusion, rejection, and social pressure
•  Why diversifying your social groups can protect you and your children
•  How to recognize when a friendship no longer feels aligned
•  When to use a quiet exit and when to call out harmful behavior

This is not just about friendship drama. It is about understanding how your relationships shape your nervous system, your emotional wellbeing, your family environment, and your ability to feel safe, supported, and whole.

About The Guest:
Ericka Sóuter is a journalist, author, and speaker who writes about motherhood, identity, friendship, and the emotional realities women often face behind the scenes. She is the author of How to Have a Kid and a Life: A Survival Guide, a book based on research and conversations with hundreds of women about the challenges of motherhood, relationships, career, identity, and self-care.

About Dr. Taz:
Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz) is a triple board-certified integrative medicine physician,
bestselling author, and founder of hol+ a multi-location integrative medicine practice.
Learn more: https://doctortaz.com/about

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Connect with Ericka Sóuter:
https://www.instagram.com/erickasouter/
https://erickasouter.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/erickaóuter/

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Host & Production Team

Host: Dr. Taz; Produced by ClipGrowth.com (Producer: Pat Gostek)

Chapters
00:00 Toxic friendships and social rejection
 03:41 Why women stay in toxic relationships
 06:46 Why rejection feels like physical pain
 10:44 Queen bees, flying monkeys, and emotional arsonists
 14:30 Why toxic behavior has to be called out
 19:36 Why diversifying your social groups matters
 24:17 Community health and the “community body”
 32:53 What toxic stress does to the brain and body
 36:25 How mothers can model healthier friendships
 55:36 Quiet exits vs. calling out harmful behavior

Creators and Guests

Host

Dr. Taz Bhatia MD

Dr. Taz Bhatia is a triple-board-certified integrative medicine physician and founder of hol+, where she brings together science, spirit and the human experience to deliver holistic, whole-person care.

Producer

Pat Gostek

Founder of ClipGrowth.com - End-to-End YouTube, Podcast & Clips Management (you just record).

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[00:00:00] Ericka: Being in a toxic, stressful environment can, can lead to autoimmune disorders. Mm-hmm. And that can [00:00:05] certainly a affect your health. And when it comes to being in, um, [00:00:10] being rejected, it does open up the same and activate the same neuro [00:00:15] pathways as physical pain. Wow. So you do feel something you, you are experiencing [00:00:20] something that is very difficult and very hard to manage.
[00:00:23] Ericka: Staying in these negative, [00:00:25] toxic relationships where you're constantly filled with anxiety and fear has a [00:00:30] detrimental effect as well on our mental health.
[00:00:32] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:00:32] Ericka: And that is something that we need to [00:00:35] address right away. And especially with our young girls. I know, I mean, I see so many [00:00:40] teenage girls and they're suffering so badly and.
[00:00:44] Ericka: The only [00:00:45] way is to help them become stronger in terms of rejecting being [00:00:50] around those types of people. I'm not saying it's easy. Yeah. But I'm saying it's necessary. [00:00:55]
[00:00:55] Dr. Taz: When we talk about stress in motherhood, we often focus on sleep deprivation, [00:01:00] work-life balance, or parenting pressure. But there's another source of stress [00:01:05] that many women quietly carry toxic friendships.
[00:01:09] Dr. Taz: My [00:01:10] next guest has spent years researching the emotional dynamics of adult female [00:01:15] relationships and the impact that they can have on wellbeing.
[00:01:17] Ericka: I talked to a woman who daughter was just. We [00:01:20] just had a complete breakdown. She was at a party with 15 [00:01:25] girlfriends, and then all of a sudden she realized they've all left her.
[00:01:27] Ericka: And she was just crying and so upset. [00:01:30] And I was like, oh, well those clearly aren't her friends. Mm-hmm. And then I talked to the mother a few [00:01:35] days later and I was like, how's she doing? And she's like, oh, it's fine. You know what, you know, her closest friends in the group were like, [00:01:40] oh, we just, we hopped in an Uber and we forgot to text you, so everything's good.
[00:01:44] Ericka: I was like, [00:01:45] no,
[00:01:45] Dr. Taz: no, no,
[00:01:46] Ericka: no, no.
[00:01:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah,
[00:01:46] Ericka: it's not good. And you need to tell her [00:01:50] what friendship looks like. Mm-hmm. Friends don't just believe you. Right. There had to have [00:01:55] been one or two people to stay behind. It's actually research shows that the magic number [00:02:00] is two friends.
[00:02:02] Dr. Taz: Erica Ser is a journalist and an [00:02:05] author who explores the intersection of friendship, identity, and motherhood.[00:02:10]
[00:02:10] Dr. Taz: Today we're talking about why social rejection can feel so painful, [00:02:15] how toxic friendship dynamics develop, and how women can begin protecting their emotional [00:02:20] wellbeing. Let's welcome Erica Suiter to the show. This episode is sponsored by Whole [00:02:25] plus, a holistic health platform built around education, personalization, [00:02:30] and integrative care.
[00:02:31] Dr. Taz: Whole plus blends holistic, integrative and functional medicine [00:02:35] clinics with learning resources like blogs, YouTube videos, and of course, this podcast. [00:02:40] So you're not just treated, you're informed. The platform also includes holistic [00:02:45] health quizzes and a curated wellness shop, helping you make choices that support your body at [00:02:50] the root level.
[00:02:51] Dr. Taz: Whole Plus is holistic healthcare designed for [00:02:55] real life. Visit [e-mail] to learn more about the [00:03:00] platform. Again, that's HOL ps.co. Erica, I'm so glad you're here [00:03:05] today because over and over again we talk about women needing to be in a [00:03:10] village and needing to be in a community. It's hard to raise children on your own, but you [00:03:15] can be in a toxic village and you can be in what we sometimes will call a [00:03:20] toxic mom group.
[00:03:20] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:21] Dr. Taz: You have written about this, you have researched this. I think the [00:03:25] question that I personally have, 'cause I have sat with this for many different fronts, [00:03:30] whether it's raising children, whether it's being in the professional environment, whether it's our political [00:03:35] system, right? Or our leadership system.
[00:03:36] Dr. Taz: You know, why do women. Almost kind [00:03:40] of turn against each other.
[00:03:41] Ericka: Well, I think one of the most surprising things that I've found from [00:03:45] the polls that I do across the country and interviewing hundreds of women is that [00:03:50] we have normalized these toxic relationships. And I find that there are [00:03:55] three reasons why women don't reject, reject them or walk away.
[00:03:59] Ericka: One is [00:04:00] proximity.
[00:04:00] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:04:00] Ericka: Right. So you have a kid and it's the most vulnerable, uh, [00:04:05] part of adulthood for a lot of women. Right. And, you know, I kind of, I liken it to your [00:04:10] whole identity is like shaken up like a snow globe. So that means belonging becomes that much [00:04:15] more mm-hmm.
[00:04:15] Dr. Taz: Important.
[00:04:15] Ericka: Right? And so who are you around?
[00:04:17] Ericka: You're around other new mothers. You're [00:04:20] around at your kids' school or preschool or in the park. And so those relationships in that belonging [00:04:25] become so important. And then the next thing is that we [00:04:30] are socialized not to, you know, shake things up, not to be rude, not to [00:04:35] reject other people. Most of us are socialized that way, and so we don't wanna rock the boat.
[00:04:39] Ericka: So we kind of [00:04:40] don't say anything when we see something amiss because we wanna kind of stay in the fold. We wanna stay a [00:04:45] part of the group. We don't wanna be rejected ourselves. And then. The other part [00:04:50] of it is that, you know, if we blow up our social group, right, or if we [00:04:55] reject these friends, then there is collateral damage in our lives, right?
[00:04:59] Ericka: [00:05:00] We don't have those people to turn to, and we don't have those people to go to coffee with or brunch with [00:05:05] or invite to birthday parties or be a part of a mom group. So all of those things, I [00:05:10] think, contribute to why women just don't say anything, even when deep down they know [00:05:15] friendships or friend groups are not good for them.
[00:05:17] Dr. Taz: Do you feel like this is an issue just as women [00:05:20] become mothers? Or is there sort of just this underlying, you know, [00:05:25] female issue where. Where we will do these very same behaviors with or without children. [00:05:30] You know what I mean? We may be doing them when we're in a college setting. Mm-hmm. We might be doing them in a professional [00:05:35] setting.
[00:05:35] Dr. Taz: We might be doing them with friends. We have that, you know, have nothing to do with having kids. Yeah. Or nothing to [00:05:40] do with having a family. Is this, is this something about the way we are wired and then my follow-up [00:05:45] question to that is, you know, if we are wired this way, what specifically does [00:05:50] motherhood, you know, the act of having a child and having that responsibility, what does that do [00:05:55] to this maybe biology or physiology that we might be carrying innately?
[00:05:59] Ericka: [00:06:00] Right. Well, I'll, I'll say this first. Okay. Motherhood doesn't create you. [00:06:05] Create toxic female relationships or toxic mom friends. It just gives you [00:06:10] like a new, um, environment or platform, right? Mm-hmm. Because what I've seen is that [00:06:15] girls, uh, young women and girls are, can be toxic throughout their [00:06:20] lives.
[00:06:20] Ericka: Right. I've seen situations where, I'll call them case studies, where three year [00:06:25] olds are mistreating each other.
[00:06:26] Dr. Taz: Oh.
[00:06:26] Ericka: And I, you know, I have boys and [00:06:30] my boys were not capable of the kind of sophisticated [00:06:35] cruelty that I saw these girls exhibit. And, um, and of course, [00:06:40] you know, and when you're little, it's kind of like, you're not pretty.
[00:06:42] Ericka: We don't wanna play with you. We don't like you can't be our friend. [00:06:45] And those things sting.
[00:06:46] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:06:46] Ericka: And rejection, no matter at what age it, um, [00:06:50] neuroscience has shown that it, it activates the same neural pathways as physical pain.
[00:06:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:54] Ericka: So it [00:06:55] actually, it really does hurt. Right. And so I think that it starts, it can start as [00:07:00] early as three and it can continue throughout our lives.
[00:07:03] Ericka: And there are [00:07:05] evolutionary psychologists who believe that it's from the days when, [00:07:10] you know, we needed to outshine other women to find someone to protect us and [00:07:15] to take care of us. So you have to kind of like, you know, outshine your competitor.
[00:07:19] Dr. Taz: [00:07:20] Mm-hmm.
[00:07:20] Ericka: And so there is an argument that maybe that's some kind of like [00:07:25] genetic reason, or it's somehow embedded in our DNA that we need [00:07:30] to survive.
[00:07:30] Ericka: And to be survive, you have to be like at the top of the pyramid.
[00:07:33] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:07:34] Ericka: But I [00:07:35] think that it's just, we haven't done the work to [00:07:40] eradicate this behavior. And the reason is, and I've interviewed as many mean [00:07:45] girls as I have, um, targets and victims.
[00:07:47] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:07:47] Ericka: There is no penalty. [00:07:50]
[00:07:50] Dr. Taz: For being a mean
[00:07:50] Ericka: girl. For being a mean girl.
[00:07:51] Ericka: There's no reason to stop because there is no penalty. [00:07:55] So I'm advocating for there to be a penalty. But for, but in order for there to be a penalty, [00:08:00] you need what I call the disruptors to step forward,
[00:08:03] Dr. Taz: right.
[00:08:03] Ericka: And put up [00:08:05] boundaries, reject the behavior and stand up for being kinder. [00:08:10] I'm not saying women have to be nice all the time,
[00:08:11] Dr. Taz: right?
[00:08:12] Ericka: But you don't have to accept that, uh, [00:08:15] small group, one person or a small group of women are gonna dictate how you treat every other woman in your [00:08:20] life.
[00:08:20] Dr. Taz: I've been on a unfortunate front row to, to much of this and much [00:08:25] of it through my, my daughter's experience who's now 18 years old and, you [00:08:30] know, have.
[00:08:31] Dr. Taz: Have sort of witnessed how this has played out in her [00:08:35] school friends and in her, you know, in who she's been around over the years and what that's done to me [00:08:40] personally in terms of who that puts me around. Mm-hmm. At the same time. Right. I [00:08:45] think the first thing that I would want my listeners and and viewers to [00:08:50] understand is how do you even recognize that you're in a toxic group to begin [00:08:55] with?
[00:08:55] Dr. Taz: Right. So many of us, myself included with everything that I know mm-hmm. We are so [00:09:00] much. Once you become a mom, it is so much about your child, right? So [00:09:05] much of us are just like, okay, anything to make you okay and mentally healthy and happy, and emotionally safe. [00:09:10] What do I need to do? Do I need to go enter this group?
[00:09:13] Dr. Taz: Do I need to do this? Do I need to do that? [00:09:15] You know, that, that was a lot of what was in my mind as I've gone through the years and trust me, I've tried [00:09:20] and it's. You know, how does someone know that they have [00:09:25] entered maybe a group or a dynamic that really isn't good for them or for their [00:09:30] child? Right? How do you know?
[00:09:31] Ericka: Well, uh, let me say this first. The stakes are higher [00:09:35] after you have kids because you're not just asking, you know. Will they [00:09:40] accept me? It's will they accept my kid? Mm-hmm. Will my kid have play dates? Will she be [00:09:45] socialized? Right. Will she feel happy and have fun and feel a part of something?
[00:09:49] Dr. Taz: Yes.
[00:09:49] Ericka: [00:09:50] So when you're a mom and you're watching this, and then you're also thinking about it for yourself as [00:09:55] well, um, it just raises the stakes and it makes it, it makes belonging that [00:10:00] much more important in your life.
[00:10:02] Ericka: Right. So I think one of the first [00:10:05] things that, um. And I think it starts with the mom. Right? Right. 'cause kids, uh, [00:10:10] young girls, they don't learn about friendship from what we tell them. They learn by [00:10:15] what we show them.
[00:10:16] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:10:16] Ericka: So if they see you kind of accepting nasty [00:10:20] behavior or, um, merciless gossiping mm-hmm.
[00:10:24] Ericka: Or [00:10:25] exclusion, they're going to mirror that. And they may not, you know, say, oh, I'm gonna mirror that. They're not saying that, but [00:10:30] they are, they're taking it in and they're seeing that that's okay. Such sponges. Such sponges. Yeah. But [00:10:35] they're not just seeing it from, it's not just the, you know, we'll call the queen bee or mean girl [00:10:40] that sets the tone.
[00:10:40] Ericka: It's all the women in between. Right. So we have call the flying [00:10:45] monkeys. Mm-hmm. Who are, you know, a part of this, you know, mean girl clique. [00:10:50] Or mean mom, click, who kind of keep that, the rules going, right? [00:10:55] Who kind of, um, kind of like the second in command to Yeah. The, the mean girl. And then you have [00:11:00] like the, um, emotional arsonist who kind of fans the flame of the gossip and [00:11:05] the issues, right?
[00:11:06] Ericka: But then you have people, um, underneath that, which I call the [00:11:10] stabilizers. Who, so that first group was the Amplify amplifiers. The second group is the stabilizers.
[00:11:14] Dr. Taz: So [00:11:15] wait, so you have the Flying Monkey?
[00:11:16] Ericka: Yeah. So Flying Monkey, the me, the me, the, let's say the [00:11:20] Queen bee. The queen bee, the flying monkey. Okay.
[00:11:21] Ericka: The emotional arsonist. Okay. Those are all the, um, the. [00:11:25] Amplifiers. Right? Okay. They keep that whole culture going. And then you have the [00:11:30] stabilizers who, this will be like the silent person. Mm. Um, the, [00:11:35] the person who maybe wants to a bit of social climber, who doesn't wanna see anything, doesn't wanna rock a boat [00:11:40] 'cause they wanna be a part of the group.
[00:11:41] Ericka: But then what to, to change this, you need the disruptors, right? And these are [00:11:45] the women who set boundaries, who call out bad behavior and who [00:11:50] aren't fearful of the consequences. Now, that's a hard. Position to be in
[00:11:54] Dr. Taz: Very much. [00:11:55] Yeah.
[00:11:55] Ericka: Very hard.
[00:11:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:11:56] Ericka: And sometimes it takes a lot of experience and a [00:12:00] lot of hurt to get to the point where you're gonna call it out.
[00:12:02] Ericka: Something that I've done, I, I have lived that and I [00:12:05] became what I think is a disruptor. Hmm. And I called out bad behavior and I lost friends [00:12:10] because of it. But I was at a stage in my life where I was like, I didn't want to feel [00:12:15] this endless competition in comparison. Mm-hmm. I didn't wanna leave a meeting with people [00:12:20] feeling not great, less great than or not great.
[00:12:23] Ericka: Yeah. And I didn't want to [00:12:25] put other people down to make myself feel good. And it really does take [00:12:30] a mom or a woman asking herself these questions and taking a look [00:12:35] at how she feels when she's with these people. And is that worth it? And [00:12:40] also understanding your self-worth. Like I came to the point where I'm like, you know what?
[00:12:43] Ericka: I'm a pretty nice person. I'm a [00:12:45] fun person. I'll have friends, I'll make friends. But I know it's hard to get to that point, but I [00:12:50] want more women to realize that they're gonna find kinship with people who are less [00:12:55] toxic. But it really starts with asking yourself, how do you feel when you're with these people?
[00:12:59] Ericka: [00:13:00] You know? And then ask your daughter the same thing.
[00:13:03] Dr. Taz: It's so hard. I, I mean, [00:13:05] I hope people are, are listening and sharing this because I think when I entered motherhood. [00:13:10] You know, first of all, if we back up to female friendships in general, I've had the most amazing women [00:13:15] in my life, right. I, I adore them and love them, but we've had commonality in terms [00:13:20] of intellectual compatibility, you know, career maybe goals or ambition or [00:13:25] things like that, you know, character.
[00:13:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. And morals and values. There's been some [00:13:30] commonality there. I think when you become a mother, you, I've been on a [00:13:35] journey of being stretched, right? Yeah. Which is a spiritual journey. I think that we all go on as mothers [00:13:40] and we start to dip our toe into environments where maybe all those things don't [00:13:45] necessarily exist altogether.
[00:13:46] Dr. Taz: It doesn't mean that anybody is less than or not enough or things [00:13:50] like that. It just means we're stretching and we're stretching into new territory. The, the [00:13:55] health part of this equation though, is it's, it's like when we enter this new dimension [00:14:00] and you're maybe that. Stabilizer or disruptor in a toxic mom group, you [00:14:05] know, is that really good for you to stay in that group?
[00:14:08] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Leaving constantly [00:14:10] feeling like you're not enough or feeling like, you know, you're in a lower pecking [00:14:15] order. Mm-hmm. You know, in terms of who's within the group, you know, what does a disruptor do, [00:14:20] you know, and how can one of the other three, you know, the flying monkey, the queen bee, the emotional [00:14:25] arsonist.
[00:14:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. You know, how can we help them identify that this is their [00:14:30] behavior?
[00:14:30] Ericka: Right. It has to be called out.
[00:14:32] Dr. Taz: Ooh.
[00:14:32] Ericka: And that is so hard to
[00:14:33] Dr. Taz: drama. A [00:14:35] little
[00:14:35] Ericka: drama.
[00:14:35] Dr. Taz: Where's, where's Showtime now? Totally. We need, we need a show for this. So
[00:14:39] Ericka: it [00:14:40] has to be called out and it takes a, an incredible amount of bravery to do [00:14:45] that.
[00:14:45] Ericka: But once you do that, and the women that I've talked to that have done that, they're happier on the other [00:14:50] side.
[00:14:50] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:14:50] Ericka: But you, but it may take a little bit of, you know, pain in the [00:14:55] process because you're wondering, well, who's gonna still be in my friend who's gonna, you know, still hang out with me? [00:15:00] And.
[00:15:00] Ericka: What you'll find is that there will be people who are gonna align with [00:15:05] you and want the same things. I found that for myself.
[00:15:07] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:15:08] Ericka: And I think that, [00:15:10] you know, the amplifiers, I mean the, the fine monkeys, the the mean girls, the [00:15:15] emotional arsonists, I have found that they are less likely to change. Mm. '
[00:15:19] Dr. Taz: cause
[00:15:19] Ericka: [00:15:20] there hasn't been enough of a penalty.
[00:15:21] Ericka: Right. There's no consequence to the behavior because so many of [00:15:25] us are afraid to say anything. Or so many people just kind of like make excuses for them. Oh, well [00:15:30] she doesn't do that to me. Or, or, you know, that's just her personality. Yeah. I'm like, well, that's, it shouldn't be your personality and [00:15:35] if it is her personality, there should be a consequence.
[00:15:37] Ericka: So they're not gonna change. But when you [00:15:40] have the stabilizers who are kind of just kind of going along for the ride, happy to be a part of the mix. [00:15:45] They have to realize their own self-worth. Right. And I, I do think [00:15:50] that there's self-esteem issues, their belonging issues, and you know, every woman has gone through it.
[00:15:54] Ericka: Right? [00:15:55] Right,
[00:15:55] Dr. Taz: right.
[00:15:55] Ericka: But you have to get to the point where you realize that your value is greater than how you're being [00:16:00] treated
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[00:17:30] Dr. Taz: Head over to you natural.com and use my special listener code Task 20 [00:17:35] for 20% off your first order. How do we help? [00:17:40] Women with this, how do we help them when they step into a group? Right. And [00:17:45] again, you know, there's so many different ways to paint this, right? Mm-hmm. There are people that enter into [00:17:50] social clubs mm-hmm.
[00:17:50] Dr. Taz: For example, and there's a, a purpose in being in that [00:17:55] club, whatever the purpose may be.
[00:17:56] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:17:57] Dr. Taz: You know, and they are so excited to [00:18:00] be a part of this club that they are afraid to call things out, or they are afraid to [00:18:05] disrupt something that might have been around for hundreds of years and is an institution.
[00:18:09] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Right. And again, [00:18:10] we can extract this to our world stage as well. Right. But when you [00:18:15] enter a group of, of moms, right. And, and for the first time, maybe it's a new school, [00:18:20] maybe it's a new activity. And now you've been introduced to this, this new group, you've moved into a new home.
[00:18:24] Ericka: Yeah. [00:18:25]
[00:18:25] Dr. Taz: Are there things that you can instantly before you're into deep?
[00:18:29] Dr. Taz: Because again, I've [00:18:30] been in this situation and it's taken me, you know, to get older and over time to be like, [00:18:35] it's taken me a while to understand that I walk in here and I don't feel good and I should [00:18:40] not be here anymore. You know what I did nine times outta 10? I would say it's me. [00:18:45] The problem is me. I'm this, I'm too nerdy, I'm too in my head, I'm too [00:18:50] cerebral.
[00:18:50] Dr. Taz: Like they're just having a good time. You know, I'd make all these excuses Yeah. [00:18:55] For them and blame myself. And I'm like, you know, of course my daughter's gonna have issues with [00:19:00] this. 'cause her mom is like, so like, you know, you know, one foot in front of the other, you know, that type of [00:19:05] person. And so I spent a lot of years blaming myself.
[00:19:08] Ericka: Hmm.
[00:19:09] Dr. Taz: I wish I hadn't done [00:19:10] that. I wish I had been like, this is not the group for us. These are not the friends for you. Yeah. You know, [00:19:15] you are me and I am you and these are our values and morals and yes, we are cerebral and that's just [00:19:20] one of, yeah, one of the natures of how we're wired. You know, how could I have prevented [00:19:25] all those years of like.
[00:19:27] Dr. Taz: I don't even know how to describe it. Just feeling like I'm, it's almost [00:19:30] like you're trying to slide through doors that are closing. You know, how could I have been like, [00:19:35] no, no, and no. Okay.
[00:19:36] Ericka: So I think one of the most basic things that we need to do as parents [00:19:40] and, you know, and as individual women who want connection, is we have to diversify [00:19:45] our social groups.
[00:19:45] Ericka: We can't rely on one group, and I think doing that for our daughters is so [00:19:50] significant. You know, what I have found is when a, a mom or a family relies on [00:19:55] just the kids in school or just the parents in school, when something goes wrong, then they're left out. They're [00:20:00] isolated, they ostracized. Mm-hmm. But when you have a kid who does ballet and soccer and this and or church [00:20:05] group, and there are lots of ways that she, she has connection or even for a woman and [00:20:10] she has lots of points of connection that aren't in the same group.
[00:20:12] Ericka: It gives you, it, it allows you to [00:20:15] see. The the bad parts sooner, right? Yeah. Because you can see like, [00:20:20] oh, you know, I don't like the way I feel with the moms and the PTA, but I love when I'm hanging out with the [00:20:25] soccer moms. Right. Or, I love it when I hang out with my church group or whatever it is, or my co my food co-op [00:20:30] group.
[00:20:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:20:30] Ericka: And so I think that one of the basic things we can do for ourselves is diversify our [00:20:35] friend groups, our social groups for our kids and ourselves.
[00:20:37] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh, that's such a great idea. It's [00:20:40] such a great idea. But I'm gonna push back on that for a second.
[00:20:42] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:20:43] Dr. Taz: Because as a mother [00:20:45] and for all the working mothers that are out there.
[00:20:47] Dr. Taz: Yeah, right. You know, one of the things that many of us have [00:20:50] talked about is this the load. We call it the invisible load. Yeah. You know, this constant hum. There's always [00:20:55] something to do. There's 50 things to organize their logistics. If you have one kid, it's a lot. If [00:21:00] you have three kids, it's even more. I don't know how people do it when they pass, you know, a couple of kids.
[00:21:04] Dr. Taz: [00:21:05] So this idea of diversifying your social groups. I even in those [00:21:10] years was like, this is what we need to do, you know? Mm-hmm. But guess what? I had no time, I had no [00:21:15] time to make those connections, to go out and like, you [00:21:20] know, you know, go find a new set of people mm-hmm. To connect with and be with and things like that.[00:21:25]
[00:21:25] Dr. Taz: How can we, how do we navigate that as women that work and have careers, but we also wanna be [00:21:30] present for our children, and we wanna make sure our children are emotionally taken care of. Yeah. Like, you know, is [00:21:35] there, is there a hack? Is there a hack for that to like figure that part out sooner, [00:21:40] faster, and more efficiently?
[00:21:41] Ericka: Uh, I think one of the problems that we have is we assume that connection are these [00:21:45] big moments. Oh, let's, we're gonna do karaoke together. We're gonna have, like, you know, we're meeting for breakfast or [00:21:50] brunch Connection happens on very small levels. And it's, it's about, um, the [00:21:55] number of times you connect, not.
[00:21:56] Ericka: How long you spend together or exactly what you [00:22:00] do. Mm. It could be texts every other day or once a week, or conversations every [00:22:05] other Sunday, or meeting at, you know, soccer, going to soccer practice on a Sunday [00:22:10] afternoon, or meeting with your, um, whatever activity it is, like if it's a [00:22:15] church group or, uh, a sewing circle or what have you.
[00:22:19] Ericka: I think the point [00:22:20] is, is that it's consistency, but it, that [00:22:25] doesn't necessarily mean frequency. Mm-hmm. I, it's hard for me to explain, but it's connection. It's [00:22:30] connection. But connection doesn't have to be these big grand moments and it built over time. And I think a lot of [00:22:35] times people think like, oh, I wanna meet this group of women and we're gonna have fun and we're gonna connect and we're gonna be great.
[00:22:39] Ericka: It takes a [00:22:40] while to find your people.
[00:22:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:22:41] Ericka: For kids and adults, it's not gonna be [00:22:45] instantaneous. In most cases. It's going to take a little bit of time and investment, but it doesn't mean [00:22:50] it has to be hours at a time. It could be coffee every other week. It [00:22:55] could be like. A zoom. It could be, there are lots of ways to [00:23:00] build that connection and that relationship.
[00:23:02] Ericka: Now, I'm not saying it's easy 'cause I am tired [00:23:05] all the time. Right. But I try to make a point of doing these things.
[00:23:09] Dr. Taz: [00:23:10] Mm.
[00:23:10] Ericka: Once in a while. And one of the things that I started doing is I, I mean, I don't have time. [00:23:15] I mean, I read a lot of books for work.
[00:23:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:23:17] Ericka: I do a lot of research and I read like everything on [00:23:20] parenting you can imagine.
[00:23:21] Ericka: But um, and people are in book, book clubs. I'm thinking, oh my God, I just don't have [00:23:25] time to like read a book for fun. But what I did was like, I started this club that's [00:23:30] not club, but this sc called bookish and I send. 10 friends the article, and [00:23:35] I'm like, okay, we're gonna get together for two hours once a month and we're gonna just discuss the issues in this article.
[00:23:39] Ericka: [00:23:40] And we're, it is, it's really just to like, oh, I love that. Hang out.
[00:23:42] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:23:43] Ericka: And it, the pressure's low. Yeah. Like, right. [00:23:45] And people can usually read an article or There's so many articles on audio right now. Yeah. You can like,
[00:23:49] Dr. Taz: [00:23:50] yeah.
[00:23:50] Ericka: So, and, and everyone's excited and everyone wants to come because they're also, you know, [00:23:55] yearning for that connection.
[00:23:56] Ericka: Yeah. So, and this is the other thing, like if you need it, you want it the way [00:24:00] you're feeling. There are a hundred other women who are feeling, that are feeling thing. You're not alone in that. And [00:24:05] sometimes we have this idea of thinking like, ah, I'm the only one who's not doing this, or I can't figure this [00:24:10] out.
[00:24:10] Ericka: Everyone around Jews. You know, don't look at Instagram and Yeah. And think that that's real [00:24:15] life.
[00:24:15] Dr. Taz: Oh, Instagram.
[00:24:15] Ericka: No.
[00:24:16] Dr. Taz: It's a whole separate story, but one of the things I talk about from a health perspective mm-hmm. [00:24:20] Over and over again.
[00:24:20] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:24:20] Dr. Taz: Uh, we talk a lot about the five bodies, right. I've talked about it before on the show.
[00:24:24] Dr. Taz: There's a [00:24:25] physical body, there's a mental body, there's an emotional body. There's sort of like this energetic or [00:24:30] spiritual body, which is your relationship, you know, kind of with the universe or God. And then there's this [00:24:35] community body, and it's a part of health. Mm-hmm. Which is why this conversation is so important.
[00:24:39] Dr. Taz: I think that [00:24:40] if we don't pay attention to the community that we are existing in, and those [00:24:45] relationships within that community, especially mom groups, which by the way, drive usually the health of the whole [00:24:50] family and the community of the family, right. Because the mom is usually driving, you know, who our kids are gonna [00:24:55] be friends with, even who our husband's gonna be friends with to a certain extent, right?
[00:24:58] Dr. Taz: I have one mom friend who's like, oh, [00:25:00] I arrange play dates for my husband all the time, right? Because otherwise men will shut down and kind of do their [00:25:05] own thing, right? Often this universe, so you know, when we think of this in the health [00:25:10] context, right? It's important to have this piece of your health as healthy [00:25:15] as your lab values and your hormones and your inflammation markers, and your mental health and all these [00:25:20] other things that we talk about.
[00:25:21] Dr. Taz: But for many women. How much do you think, and I don't [00:25:25] know if you've explored this in your research, I'm curious, like for women that are simply [00:25:30] not healthy mm-hmm. They are tired, they're exhausted, you know, they don't feel [00:25:35] good about themselves, whether it's physical, whether it's emotional, how vulnerable are those [00:25:40] women in particular to a toxic mom group?
[00:25:42] Ericka: Well, they're incredibly vulnerable [00:25:45] because they're so, it's, you're so desperate for connection. You're willing to put up with things [00:25:50] that you normally wouldn't, or things that you kind of know deep down don't serve [00:25:55] you. But, you know, here's the, here's the one thing I have found about mothers is that, [00:26:00] you know, we will put everyone else's needs above our own.
[00:26:04] Ericka: We'll ask, and then we'll [00:26:05] ask, am I being, am I being a good employee? Am I being a good wife? Am I being a good mother? But [00:26:10] we also need connection. And it's not that we need more friends, we need better [00:26:15] friendships. Hmm. And so you have to really ask yourself, you know, am I. [00:26:20] You know, does this friendship make me feel good?
[00:26:22] Ericka: Does this friendship serve me? [00:26:25] You know, it doesn't have have to be like, you know, totally reciprocal. You know, like [00:26:30] someone takes you out to dinner. You don't always have to like do tit for tat.
[00:26:33] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:26:33] Ericka: But there has to be some kind [00:26:35] of emotional touchstone, like this person, I'll give an example. So I have a friend, a [00:26:40] really good friend, Anita, and sometimes I go through these periods where I'm so overwhelmed and I'm so, and I kind of [00:26:45] like drop out of sight for a couple
days.
[00:26:47] Ericka: Mm-hmm. And she'd be like, I
do
[00:26:48] Dr. Taz: that too. Yeah.
[00:26:48] Ericka: And she'll be like, Hey, what's going [00:26:50] on with you?
[00:26:50] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:26:51] Ericka: You know? And she's that friend who [00:26:55] she will reach out, just be like, Hey, I just wanna see what's going on with you. And sometimes we need that. We can be that for [00:27:00] someone and we need someone to be that for us.
[00:27:02] Ericka: But it's not about these big splashy moments. It's [00:27:05] about those little moments where, you know, someone cares about how you feel. You, [00:27:10] not just your kids, not your husband, not, you know. Yeah. But they care about what you are going through. [00:27:15] And I, I think that we need to have those people in our lives, but we also need to [00:27:20] make the effort to be those people.
[00:27:22] Dr. Taz: Do you feel like most women neglect this, [00:27:25] like finding people that care about them versus their child [00:27:30] and who their child's gonna play with and, you know, their marriage and, and stuff like that? Do you feel like [00:27:35] most women are not really great at this?
[00:27:37] Ericka: Yeah. I think most women neglect their needs. Mm-hmm.
[00:27:39] Ericka: [00:27:40] Absolutely. And, um, and I, and that's not just my opinion. I have interviewed hundreds of [00:27:45] women. Yeah. And that is what I have found. You know, that's, I mean, that's why I wrote this book, you know, how to have a [00:27:50] kid in a life. And it's not about like, oh, you know, go shopping, get a mani pedi. I mani, [00:27:55] petties are not self-care to me.
[00:27:56] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:27:57] Ericka: At all. Um, I, I think [00:28:00] that what you have to do is you have to ask yourself questions about what you need to find out what is [00:28:05] missing. Right. You know, is my, for some women, it's their relationship isn't, their [00:28:10] romantic relationship isn't serving them, or is their career isn't going in the right direction [00:28:15] or it's, you know, their, he their physical health.
[00:28:17] Ericka: But you really have to sit [00:28:20] down and ask yourself, and it could be in the shower, it could be in the bathtub, it could be driving to work. [00:28:25] But you really have to evaluate what is missing in your life and then kind of work to fill that. [00:28:30]
[00:28:30] Dr. Taz: I'm curious, so, you know, those of us that are vulnerable maybe to being in, in this toxic [00:28:35] mom group dynamic or toxic friend group dynamic.
[00:28:38] Dr. Taz: Are you also vulnerable [00:28:40] to being in toxic romantic relationships and toxic partnerships? Is there an [00:28:45] overlap there? I don't know if your research showed any of that or not. I'm just curious. Super curious.
[00:28:48] Ericka: Yeah. You know, I haven't [00:28:50] researched that specifically, but what I have found is that when [00:28:55] women have toxic friendships, it can impact their home life.
[00:28:59] Dr. Taz: [00:29:00] Mm.
[00:29:00] Ericka: It can affect the way they are with their partners and their children. So when you [00:29:05] have, and I've also seen that when people have chaotic and toxic work environments, 'cause they're [00:29:10] bringing it home and, and, and it impacts how they can sometimes speak or relate or, [00:29:15] um, how they are when they're, when they're not at work, they're still thinking about, they're still obsessing about it and it [00:29:20] still has this emotional impact on them.
[00:29:22] Ericka: So I, I don't wanna specifically. [00:29:25] Address, like whether you're more vulnerable to toxic [00:29:30] romantic relationships. Right. Because I think that pathology is different.
[00:29:33] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:29:34] Ericka: But I, I [00:29:35] absolutely think having a toxic social group can impact your family life. [00:29:40]
[00:29:40] Dr. Taz: Well, one of the things, you know, that I've seen too, and I mean, and you know, we've always, you know, you observe it and then you move [00:29:45] on.
[00:29:45] Dr. Taz: But, you know, you'll see a, a mom group
[00:29:47] Ericka: mm-hmm.
[00:29:47] Dr. Taz: Where one person goes and [00:29:50] gets like a plastic surgery procedure, for example. The next thing you know, they're all getting that [00:29:55] exact same procedure. Or you'll see another group where one person gets divorced and the next thing you know, [00:30:00] all of those people are getting divorced.
[00:30:02] Dr. Taz: What's happening in those scenarios of [00:30:05] moms being together?
[00:30:06] Ericka: Well, I do think there is a tremendous amount of comparison that [00:30:10] goes on, you know, motherhood is. Was always hard. Right. But now it's [00:30:15] hard and on display.
[00:30:16] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:30:16] Ericka: Right. Yeah. And so I think there is a lot of, you know, using [00:30:20] that old phrase, keeping up with the Joneses.
[00:30:22] Ericka: Mm-hmm. There's this idea that, you know, I don't wanna be [00:30:25] the oldest looking one in the group, and if so-and-so's getting her eyes done, then maybe I should do it. And [00:30:30] I've seen it with my, my own friends. Mm-hmm. Like it a, a, you know, a lifter or something and they're like, oh, should [00:30:35] I do that? Or should I consider doing that all the time?
[00:30:37] Ericka: You know?
[00:30:37] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:30:37] Ericka: And I think that there's, some of that is normal [00:30:40] because as we age, appearance, we have issues with like, oh my God, I'm getting wrinkles, I'm getting older. Mm-hmm. [00:30:45] And that, that's hard for everyone.
[00:30:46] Dr. Taz: Right, right, right.
[00:30:46] Ericka: So I do think that when your [00:30:50] friend does it kind of gives you permission.
[00:30:51] Ericka: And it doesn't necessarily have to be a, it doesn't have to be a bad thing.
[00:30:54] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:30:54] Ericka: [00:30:55] Un unless you take it to extremes. But kind of like when someone kind of breaks that seal and just [00:31:00] starts it, it can start everyone thinking about it. But I do think there are more [00:31:05] negative, uh, incident that I've seen where, um.[00:31:10]
[00:31:10] Ericka: One person decides they hate someone in the group. Mm-hmm. And then everyone kind of falls in line and [00:31:15] rejects that person or ostracizes that person. Yeah. And it's so strange because, and I've seen it personally, and [00:31:20] I've seen it from interviewing people and it's so strange to me. We're like, we're grown women and we kind of [00:31:25] let someone else dictate who we can be friends with.
[00:31:28] Ericka: Yeah. And then some of these women are, [00:31:30] you know, a lot of people ask me, oh, you must talk mostly to stay at home moms. Or these must be like housewives or [00:31:35] suburban wives who don't have anything to do. That's not true. It is everyone. I've interviewed everyone from [00:31:40] CEOs to people who are like fashion designers, like all these people who have these big careers, and then in [00:31:45] their personal life with their friends, they allow themselves to be, um, [00:31:50] mistreated.
[00:31:50] Ericka: Mm. And it's really, sometimes it's really surprising. But again, it's this, you know, [00:31:55] there is an epidemic of loneliness and we sometimes we feel like we just need people, you know, we [00:32:00] need a group of women around us so that we aren't so lonely, but we are mistaking, [00:32:05] um. The numbers for, you know, true connection.[00:32:10]
[00:32:10] Ericka: You know, you can have a group of women around you and still feel [00:32:15] lonely and dejected, and that's not what you want.
[00:32:18] Dr. Taz: I'm curious what [00:32:20] neuroscience says about a couple of things. What does the science say about women who stay in [00:32:25] toxic friend groups, toxic mom groups. Mm-hmm. Is there any research around that in terms of, you know, [00:32:30] their stress levels, their levels of inflammation?
[00:32:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. I'm, I'm super curious. And then [00:32:35] the other part is, you know, let's say you are that disruptor and you are that person who's like, [00:32:40] Hey, wait a second. You know, and you call something out and you get rejected. [00:32:45] That fear of rejection is huge for anybody as a human. Right. And we definitely see it in, you know, in our [00:32:50] kids.
[00:32:50] Dr. Taz: What does social rejection do to the brain?
[00:32:53] Ericka: Mm-hmm. Well, I'll, I'll [00:32:55] say this. There is, there is research that suggests that. [00:33:00] Being in a toxic, stressful environment can ha, can lead to autoimmune [00:33:05] disorders. Mm-hmm. And that can certainly a affect your health and when it comes to being [00:33:10] in, um, being rejected.
[00:33:13] Ericka: Yeah. I mean it's, it's painful. [00:33:15] Like we, we, it does open up the same and activate the same neuro pathways as [00:33:20] physical pain. Wow. So you do feel something you, you are experiencing something that is very [00:33:25] difficult and very hard to manage, but. The long-term [00:33:30] emotional effects to, for like depression and anxiety?
[00:33:33] Ericka: Yeah. We're, we are at epidemic [00:33:35] levels for women and girls and I mean e even young men even we see it [00:33:40] with teens and, and, and boys. But staying in these negative toxic [00:33:45] relationships where you're constantly filled with anxiety and fear has a detrimental [00:33:50] effect as well on our mental health.
Mm.
[00:33:52] Ericka: And that is something that we need to [00:33:55] address right away.
[00:33:55] Ericka: And especially with our young girls. I know. I mean, I see so many teenage [00:34:00] girls and they're suffering so badly. And, and even when you see, like, you see someone, [00:34:05] oh, they have friends and they're going out, but you know, behind those closed doors and what their [00:34:10] parents are dealing with, with them is a lot of depression and anxiety.
[00:34:13] Ericka: And [00:34:15] the only way. To, I feel like one of the only ways to remedy that [00:34:20] is to help them become stronger in terms of rejecting being around those [00:34:25] types of people or reject or stop being in groups that make them feel this way.
[00:34:29] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:34:29] Ericka: It's [00:34:30] hard, right? If it was easy, we would've done, I mean, we would've, we would've eradicated mean girls and [00:34:35] toxicity generations ago.
[00:34:36] Ericka: Instead, we're generations end into the same kind of [00:34:40] behavior. But I, I really, it's kind of like, um, it's like a call to [00:34:45] action. Yeah. And that's what I'm pushing for. And with examples of people who did it and [00:34:50] went through the hard parts and came out better on the other side. I'm not saying [00:34:55] it's easy.
[00:34:55] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:34:55] Ericka: But I'm saying it's necessary.
[00:34:57] Dr. Taz: What do you want women to do? Like, you know, [00:35:00] I. Uh, what do you want women to do for themselves and what do [00:35:05] you want us to do for our girls? You know, how do we protect them? I, in the clinic, [00:35:10] day in and day out, we see teenage girls suffering from anxiety and [00:35:15] depression. Mm-hmm.
[00:35:15] Dr. Taz: I've told you I've had a front row seat to this. And again, I don't wanna, you know, divulge too much to [00:35:20] protect her privacy. Yeah, of course. But, but it is an issue in our home.
[00:35:23] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:35:24] Dr. Taz: You know, [00:35:25] I know a lot, I have a lot of resources and I feel completely helpless. You know, what [00:35:30] can we do? You know, as mothers, you know, as women, you know, what [00:35:35] is it, what is your call to action for people like us who are, who are truly struggling?
[00:35:39] Ericka: Yeah. [00:35:40]
[00:35:40] Dr. Taz: To prop their daughters up when everything is on display. Right. You know, it like, [00:35:45] it makes my blood boil a little bit, honestly. It's like I'll go to something [00:35:50] and it's like hugs and kisses. Oh my God, you're so cute. You're so pretty. You're, you're so this. Oh my God, you're [00:35:55] gorgeous. You look so great, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
[00:35:57] Dr. Taz: You go home, you're not invited to the [00:36:00] dance, you're not invited to this, you're not invited to that. But guess what? In today's age, you can open up [00:36:05] social media and you can see everybody having a really great time on Snap or Instagram or [00:36:10] wherever you wanna go.
[00:36:10] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:36:11] Dr. Taz: You know, so that social rejection that somebody experiences [00:36:15] day in and day out is causing a mental health crisis.
[00:36:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. You know? So [00:36:20] what are we all supposed to do? You know, both as mothers, both as girls. What do you want people to do?
[00:36:24] Ericka: [00:36:25] Well, you have to clean up those relationships in your own life first. Wow. [00:36:30] Um, you really do. And because our kids are watching and they're taking [00:36:35] notes, you know, mental notes. Mm-hmm. So I want, it starts with us [00:36:40] changing how our, our relationships and, and rooting ourselves of those toxic relationships [00:36:45] or categories, being honest about what they are and removing ourselves [00:36:50] from, you know, it doesn't mean you can't have coffee with some people.
[00:36:52] Ericka: Right, right, right. Or, you know, go to a cocktail party and chat. [00:36:55] But it's how you participate in those relationships. And I'm not talking about just gossip, women gossip is [00:37:00] actually shown to be kind of like great for us. Yeah. To have a little gossip sesh. Yeah. And have [00:37:05] little fun.
[00:37:05] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:37:05] Ericka: So I'm not saying that, but I'm saying when you see true someone, you know, a group of women being, you [00:37:10] know, excluding people being so toxic that they're tearing other people down and you [00:37:15] participating in that, even your silence speaks volumes to your kid.
[00:37:18] Ericka: So it starts with us looking in [00:37:20] the mirror and changing the way we. Engage other women [00:37:25] and, and then work with our daughters. So we lead by example, but then we also talk to them. You know, I talked [00:37:30] to a woman who daughter was just. Just had a complete breakdown. She was at a [00:37:35] party with 15 girlfriends. I'm thinking, no one has 15
[00:37:38] Dr. Taz: girlfriend.
[00:37:38] Dr. Taz: Right, right.
[00:37:39] Ericka: [00:37:40] But she's at a party with 15 girlfriends and she's hanging out. And then all of a sudden she realized they've all left her. And she [00:37:45] was just crying and so upset. And I was like, oh, well those clearly aren't [00:37:50] her friends. And then I talked to the mother a few days later and I was like, how's she doing?
[00:37:53] Ericka: And she's like, oh, it's fine. You [00:37:55] know what? You know, her closest friends in the group were like, oh, we just, we hopped in an Uber and we forgot to [00:38:00] text you, so everything's good. I was like, no,
[00:38:02] Dr. Taz: no, no, no,
[00:38:03] Ericka: no.
[00:38:03] Dr. Taz: Yeah,
[00:38:04] Ericka: it's not [00:38:05] good. And you need to tell her what friendship looks like and that real friends [00:38:10] don't abandon.
[00:38:10] Ericka: I mean, that's like something I was told, like, and you know. Yeah.
[00:38:13] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:38:13] Ericka: You, you don't,
[00:38:14] Dr. Taz: especially in [00:38:15] today's world, you, it's safety in numbers, you know? Yeah.
[00:38:17] Ericka: And one person needs to stay. Just one person needs [00:38:20] to stay. But the girls came up with an excuse and now her daughter's like, oh no, they're all good.
[00:38:24] Ericka: And [00:38:25] I'm like, that's a problem. We can't. Let her, we know we don't want, we don't want our kids to hurt, [00:38:30] but that's not all good. Mm-hmm. Friends don't just believe you. Right. There [00:38:35] had to have been one or two people to stay behind and that's what we have to teach our girls to look for. It's [00:38:40] not about, you don't need 20 friends, you don't need 15 friends.
[00:38:42] Ericka: You don't even need six friends. It's actually research [00:38:45] shows that the magic number is two friends. [00:38:50] That it's good enough, it's good enough. Wow. Two, two close friends you can rely on, share [00:38:55] with. Um, open up to be real around, not be prote, you know, and it's, we also [00:39:00] want our daughters to know that they don't have to pretend to be something that they're not.
[00:39:04] Ericka: Mm-hmm. And that's, [00:39:05] you know, I see a lot of that right there, there. Our daughters are being performative and we're being [00:39:10] performative. And it's exhausting. Right.
[00:39:12] Dr. Taz: If you're listening to this and [00:39:15] thinking, I know something is often my body, but I don't know where to [00:39:20] start. This is for you. That's why I created the circle.
[00:39:24] Dr. Taz: The circle [00:39:25] is my private community where I and my team focus on understanding your body [00:39:30] from hormones and stress to metabolic health and longevity with real life guidance that [00:39:35] you can actually use. This is about clarity and consistency and support [00:39:40] beyond the exam room and maybe outside of all the different appointments and [00:39:45] experts that you've been running around to.
[00:39:47] Dr. Taz: You can try the circle with a one month trial [00:39:50] using the promo code podcast at Whole Plus do co back slash circle. [00:39:55] Again, that's whole plus to ho l [00:40:00] pls.co/circle. All right, let's jump back into the episode. Do you feel like. You know, I have a [00:40:05] son and a daughter.
[00:40:05] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:40:06] Dr. Taz: And, you know, my daughter's the one who's been very vulnerable [00:40:10] to all of this.
[00:40:10] Dr. Taz: My son has not, you know, what can I continue to model [00:40:15] for my daughter as now she moves into college. Mm-hmm. And she has to make a whole new set of friends. Yeah. And [00:40:20] navigate friend groups and stuff like that. You know, are there things that I should be preparing her for as she [00:40:25] enters a new chapter of her life?
[00:40:26] Dr. Taz: Like what are things that as a mother I can do?
[00:40:29] Ericka: Right. [00:40:30] Um, I think that she ha she or every kid entering like a new [00:40:35] part of their. Emerging adulthood have to know that you [00:40:40] may not find your people right away. Like that's, we're all so anxious. I know to find everyone right away, to have our [00:40:45] best friends right away.
[00:40:46] Ericka: It could take months, it could take till your sophomore year, but, but you also have [00:40:50] to extend yourself to try people out, right? Mm-hmm. You can join a club [00:40:55] I a mock trial, you know, the young democrats, the young Republican, whatever. It's
[00:40:59] Dr. Taz: right.
[00:40:59] Ericka: You know, [00:41:00] and then test the people out, see if there's someone that resonates with you.
[00:41:04] Ericka: See if there's [00:41:05] someone that you can develop a, a connection with. And it's not like right [00:41:10] away you're gonna realize there's gonna be fireworks and you're gonna realize this is your, like, best friend for life. But it could be [00:41:15] after, you know, several meetings or having, going out for coffee or having lunch with the person, [00:41:20] or it's, it's a process.
[00:41:22] Ericka: And I think we need, you know, there's so much need [00:41:25] for immediate gratification. Yeah. For our kids and, and us where. [00:41:30] Finding true connection is a process. It's kinda like dating.
[00:41:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:41:33] Ericka: Right. I mean, most of us wouldn't [00:41:35] marry someone we met a week ago. Right, right, right. And be like, he's the love of my life.
[00:41:39] Ericka: Right. [00:41:40] I think the same things, I think that same thing goes for friendship [00:41:45] and, and keep an eye on how that person behaves, how they treat you, how they [00:41:50] treat others. You know, if you're, let's say, and this is, I, I think a big warning sign. If you're a group of three [00:41:55] and you know, when the third person leaves, the other friend starts [00:42:00] talking about them or saying nasty things about them.
[00:42:02] Ericka: You have to think, well, when you're not there, that person saying the [00:42:05] same thing about you or doing the same thing to you, you know, if, are you okay with that? If you're okay with [00:42:10] it, fine. Some people are fine with it. But if you're not, if it makes you anxious. I remember reading in college and seeing [00:42:15] that happened.
[00:42:15] Ericka: I thought, oh my God, like if I get up and leave, they're gonna talk about me too. And I didn't want that [00:42:20] anxiety. And I was like, okay, these aren't my people.
[00:42:21] Dr. Taz: Yeah, right. I think that anxiety is probably one of the biggest, you [00:42:25] know, I'm, I'm thinking about people walking into situations kind of blind blindly.
[00:42:29] Dr. Taz: You never [00:42:30] know who you're gonna meet or who you're gonna connect with. But that feeling, I think is the [00:42:35] barometer, right? Yep. I feel good when I'm here. I feel drained when I'm here. Yeah. I feel [00:42:40] happy when I'm here. I feel anxious when I hear, like I have, you know, some friends and I call [00:42:45] them soul friends.
[00:42:45] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. Right? Like, I could not have talked to them for three months, [00:42:50] but we'll go for a walk, we'll meet for coffee, you know, they're outta town. They may text or call me [00:42:55] and you instantly feel like completely filled back up.
[00:42:58] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:42:58] Dr. Taz: You know, like you have, [00:43:00] uh, an energy source that nothing else could give you.
[00:43:03] Dr. Taz: Right. But then I've also been in those [00:43:05] situations where you go somewhere and you sit through a dinner and this, this happened a lot, you [00:43:10] know, in, in the years past, but like, you sit through a dinner and you're like, I don't feel good.
[00:43:14] Ericka: [00:43:15] Yeah.
[00:43:15] Dr. Taz: And I can't, and you sound irrational. Like, I remember going home and telling my husband, I don't, I don't [00:43:20] feel good.
[00:43:20] Dr. Taz: Like, something's off. Like, and they're like, I think you're just blowing this outta proportion.
Mm-hmm.
[00:43:24] Dr. Taz: But [00:43:25] I think one of the things both of us want to really impress upon women is that that [00:43:30] intuitive knowledge. Oh
[00:43:30] Ericka: yeah.
[00:43:31] Dr. Taz: That like. Brain that's telling you that, please listen to [00:43:35] that. Yeah. 'cause if you don't feel good after a certain situation, there's a hundred [00:43:40] percent a reason Yeah.
[00:43:41] Dr. Taz: For all of that.
[00:43:42] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:43:42] Dr. Taz: And the other thing I loved, and I wanna make sure everybody [00:43:45] really grasps that when you're walking into these situations, some of the behaviors that you should be on [00:43:50] guard for are, I'm gonna let you say them. Like what are some of the key behaviors in these [00:43:55] toxic groups that you should really be on alert so you can extricate yourself quickly.
[00:43:59] Dr. Taz: You know, it's [00:44:00] almost like being on a bad date and you're like, okay, I gotta go. You know, but like, what are some of the situations where [00:44:05] maybe after a meeting or two, you know, to get outta there very quickly?
[00:44:08] Ericka: Yeah. Well, I, I do, I, I [00:44:10] 100% believe that you feel it here and in your stomach. I could feel it in my mm-hmm.
[00:44:14] Ericka: Chest and in my stomach when [00:44:15] something's just not right. And you do have to pay attention to that. But I think that. You have to give [00:44:20] someone a chance, right? I don't believe in just one impression. And then you're like, Ugh, this person like, [00:44:25] is terrible. I, I, you know, I, I've had an instance where, you know, I [00:44:30] was making a new mom friend.
[00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:44:31] Ericka: And I was like, oh, you know, she's not so, no, she's, this isn't, you know, [00:44:35] she's kind of funny. And, and the third, by the third coffee, [00:44:40] it came out, I was like, this isn't my person. Right. This isn't for me. And it was because there [00:44:45] wasn't, she had no empathy for other people. [00:44:50] And so you have to, you have to teach your daughter or son, but we're mostly like about [00:44:55] daughters here.
[00:44:55] Ericka: Um, what is important to you? Right. [00:45:00] And for me, I was like, oh my God. Like that is, the story is terrible. [00:45:05] It's not funny. And it's, oh my goodness, if this happened to my child, I'd be so upset. Like, [00:45:10] and the, the way this person was talking about this other. Mom and daughter, and I thought, okay, [00:45:15] this isn't my person.
[00:45:15] Ericka: You, for me, empathy is important.
[00:45:17] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:45:18] Ericka: And [00:45:20] also, um, just understanding that people have different experiences in different lives and make different [00:45:25] choices, and that's okay.
[00:45:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:45:27] Ericka: But that's, for me, for some people it's [00:45:30] like, I want someone who can be like lighthearted. It isn't talking about politics [00:45:35] in the right, heavy, the end of the world all the time.
[00:45:36] Ericka: Right, right, right. Yeah. So it really does, you have to create [00:45:40] your own, um, what's important to you. And I think if we can help our [00:45:45] kids do that, like I tell, I even tell, tell my boys, I'm like, um, do you have fun with them? [00:45:50] Are they nice to you? Yeah. Do you, you know, do they make you laugh? Like those kinds of things [00:45:55] are important.
[00:45:55] Ericka: I don't want them feeling they have to be someone that they're, they are [00:46:00] not. And you know, I have one kid who is type A and like kind of wild and the other one who's [00:46:05] kind of quiet and bookish and, and I, you know, the older one, he's like, not a [00:46:10] hard partier. And I'm like, it's fine.
[00:46:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:46:12] Ericka: You know, you don't have to go to all the parties that your friends wanna go to.
[00:46:14] Ericka: Right, right. [00:46:15] Where he was feeling all this pressure, even though he was not having fun and it wasn't his thing. Yeah. It wasn't [00:46:20] his thing. And I think our kids can feel this pressure, but we have to also tell them, oh, it's totally fine. [00:46:25] Like, there are lots of people who don't like to do that.
[00:46:27] Dr. Taz: So really modeling those behaviors,
[00:46:29] Ericka: modeling, but [00:46:30] also asking them how they feel and validating how they feel.
[00:46:33] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:46:34] Ericka: And [00:46:35] sometimes I find with parents, especially as our kids get older, we have this idea of who they should be and [00:46:40] what, what fun is. And then we try to push them toward that.
[00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:46:43] Ericka: Like the moms who want their kids to be in the [00:46:45] popular group. Right. Or with the certain girls or whatever. And so we are kind of pushing them in [00:46:50] this direction.
[00:46:50] Ericka: 'cause we think that means success. That means they're gonna be happy. And that's not true [00:46:55] for every kid. And so we have to pay attention to who our kids are, who, what our family [00:47:00] values are, and, and help instill that in our kids.
[00:47:03] Dr. Taz: Definitely. And I would, and I would add like [00:47:05] that community group impacts the health of the family.
[00:47:07] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Right. Because, you know, if the [00:47:10] mom's having an issue, if the child's having an issue, then the entire family dynamic can be disrupted. Mm-hmm. And, [00:47:15] and things like vacations can be not fun because somebody's always talking about somebody [00:47:20] else or worried about Oh yeah. Somebody else's. I mean, all of that.
[00:47:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So it definitely comes in, you know, one of the things we [00:47:25] didn't touch upon, and I think this has happened to me as well, is that we can have [00:47:30] friends at a stage of our life.
[00:47:31] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:32] Dr. Taz: But then because people grow and change mm-hmm. And [00:47:35] evolve into different beings sometimes. That turns into it wasn't, but [00:47:40] it turns into a toxic friendship.
[00:47:42] Ericka: Oh yeah.
[00:47:42] Dr. Taz: How do we navigate that situation?
[00:47:44] Ericka: So I think we [00:47:45] have to understand that sometimes we meet people at a certain point in our lives, and that's what we needed at that [00:47:50] point. Right. Especially if you're a new mom and you're tired and you're drained and you want people to relate to that.
[00:47:54] Dr. Taz: [00:47:55] Mm-hmm.
[00:47:55] Ericka: But then as your kids get older, you may have different needs, you may have different points of [00:48:00] connection.
[00:48:00] Ericka: And I think that, I really want women to know that just because their [00:48:05] kids are friends with another child doesn't mean you have to be best friends with that. Mom [00:48:10] and I, women run into a lot of trouble when they create all of their friendships based on who [00:48:15] their kid plays with. And we've all done it.
[00:48:18] Ericka: Yeah. We've all, we've all done it. [00:48:20] And, um. So I think that we have to understand that you have to have your own independent point [00:48:25] of connection and not reliant on like who your kid plays with. Because that's, I've seen so many [00:48:30] women who are just devastated. 'cause when the girls start fighting or they're not friends, right?
[00:48:34] Ericka: And all of a [00:48:35] sudden this mom's on the outs and that one's talking about her to other moms. Right. It's based on the kid [00:48:40] drama. Right. And um, you know, and I, I remember sitting with two moms who were going through this and [00:48:45] um, and the reason that the drama started was so, it was so crazy to me. [00:48:50] But I was just thinking like, you can't, you can't put all your [00:48:55] eggs in one basket.
[00:48:55] Ericka: You can't rely just on these connections from [00:49:00] school. Like, I, like I mm-hmm. I said, we have work friends, we can make connections at work. Having coffee with your [00:49:05] coworker builds connection.
[00:49:06] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:49:07] Ericka: Right. And that's someone that you can probably talk about if they don't have [00:49:10] kids or they do kids, maybe you don't have to talk about like what.
[00:49:13] Ericka: College, your kid's going to or [00:49:15] what? Like how your kid's doing on the soccer team or whatever. We need different [00:49:20] points of connection at different points in our lives and not [00:49:25] reliant on this one group forever. It's just not, [00:49:30] it's
[00:49:30] Dr. Taz: just not realistic. It's
[00:49:31] Ericka: not realistic.
[00:49:31] Dr. Taz: I think that's the biggest message, and I wish I had jumped into that [00:49:35] earlier, is really, you know, diversifying our friend groups.
[00:49:37] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. But I think I too was suffering from like, oh
[00:49:39] Ericka: yeah. [00:49:40]
[00:49:40] Dr. Taz: Fatigue and exhaustion and also thinking in this very type A [00:49:45] mentality that it's all or nothing. Like either we're doing the big event, doing the big dinner, and I'm having [00:49:50] people over and I'm making 20 dishes and everything's beautiful, or I'm doing nothing.
[00:49:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah. You know, and I think that [00:49:55] kind of thinking is a fallacy when it comes to relationships and friendships for sure. And I think it get, can get you [00:50:00] stuck, you know, in certain, certain patterns. So I can, I can look back and [00:50:05] see myself doing that. Now. You've written a book. Tell us about your book, exploring this, what we [00:50:10] can find in your book and you know, what you want people to walk away with.
[00:50:13] Ericka: Yeah. Well, so I wrote [00:50:15] this book, um, how to Have a Kid In the Life, A Survival Guide, because it addressed all the things that. [00:50:20] I needed and I didn't find when I was a new mom and what I found, [00:50:25] there's certain things that, you know, you, when you, so when you get pregnant, all of your friends are like, oh, [00:50:30] you need this stuff.
[00:50:30] Ericka: We're gonna go throw you a shower. Right. There's all this like, it's all about these like [00:50:35] things that they think you need for take care of a baby. Yeah. Or Or new motherhood. Yeah. But [00:50:40] there are all these emotional things that we go through. And so I found new motherhood really [00:50:45] hard. You know, I was a full-time working mom.
[00:50:47] Ericka: Oh yeah. And I was like, oh my God, I'm so overwhelmed. [00:50:50] And I remember thinking like, how do people keep doing this? Right? How do people have five kids? This is insane. I'm going crazy. [00:50:55] And so I started doing research and started talking to women across the country about their [00:51:00] experiences. And so the book is filled with everything women told me.
[00:51:03] Ericka: Hundreds of women, what they told me [00:51:05] that they struggled with the most, what they wish they could change and how. To fix it. [00:51:10]
[00:51:10] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:51:10] Ericka: Right? Mm-hmm. So, you know, you, we have things, there's a whole chapter on what happens to your career. A [00:51:15] lot of people think that maternity leave keeps them safe.
[00:51:17] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:51:18] Ericka: That is not necessarily true.
[00:51:19] Dr. Taz: [00:51:20] Mm.
[00:51:20] Ericka: There are
[00:51:20] Dr. Taz: meaning,
[00:51:21] Ericka: meaning you can be laid off or fired on maternity leave. [00:51:25] Right. And so I think that most women I talk to, they kind of, they feel like they have this job security [00:51:30] when they're, you're pregnant 'cause you're protected. Yeah. That's not necessarily the case. Yeah. I go talk to legal experts [00:51:35] about how you can safeguard yourself or what to do if this happens to you, or what the warning signs are if you're being [00:51:40] pushed out after you have kids.
[00:51:41] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:51:41] Ericka: Um, I talk about what happens to your romantic [00:51:45] relationships. Right. People think that, you know, when you have kids. It's, you are never gonna be more in [00:51:50] love with your spouse. Right. Or your partner. And, and it's just kind of like you might hate them more than you ever thought [00:51:55] possible when you have a, a new baby.
[00:51:56] Ericka: Mm-hmm. What happens to your body image? Um, [00:52:00] I, there's a chapter on, um, women and or mothers and [00:52:05] alcohol and addiction. Mm-hmm. And that's something that no one talks about. Talked about. Yeah. But it, it's, it [00:52:10] was, when I wrote the book, A growing problem. Like, uh, a lot of facilities are seeing uptick in [00:52:15] new moms needing substance abuse counseling.
[00:52:18] Ericka: Um. And it's
[00:52:19] Dr. Taz: [00:52:20] just the stress and the anxiety and looking for an outlet. Yeah. All of this.
[00:52:23] Ericka: Yeah. And I think the [00:52:25] bottom line was that I found that, you know, if women wanna build strong, happy lives, but they [00:52:30] can't do that if they neglect their self and their needs. Mm. And that is the ultimate message in the [00:52:35] book.
[00:52:35] Ericka: And I even have like, you know, once a year to do a check-in with yourself and have a series of questions you should [00:52:40] ask yourself to know, know if you're like on the right track to keep yourself emotionally healthy. Yeah. And emotionally grounded. [00:52:45] And I feel like it's really important because the world tells us that when we're [00:52:50] mothers, it's not about us at all.
[00:52:52] Ericka: Right? It's all about, it's about taking care of your baby and [00:52:55] everyone else in your life. But I, I found that women were really struggling trying to keep [00:53:00] up with that model of how to be a, a, an adult woman with children. [00:53:05] So, um. Yeah. I wanted to provide this for, so if your friends aren't [00:53:10] gonna tell you all the hard stuff about parenting Yeah.
[00:53:12] Ericka: I was like, you can give this at their baby shower and [00:53:15] it's not you, you know?
[00:53:15] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:53:16] Ericka: But it's, it's also, there's a lot of positives. It's like, oh, here's how to work through it. You [00:53:20] know? I even have a section on, you know, so many women told me about once the biggest [00:53:25] arguments that they had with their partner was where to spend the holidays.
[00:53:29] Ericka: Right. We had [00:53:30] kids
[00:53:30] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:53:30] Ericka: How to discipline and sleepovers.
[00:53:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:33] Ericka: And so I came with a, a list of [00:53:35] questions that they, women had told me they wished they had talked about before they had kids.
[00:53:38] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:53:38] Ericka: And these are just discussions you can [00:53:40] have, because sometimes you're blindsided, but you're like, you know, I, you don't spank, I believe in spank or vice [00:53:45] versa.
[00:53:45] Ericka: Or you don't believe in, you know, punish her, or you wanna spend every Christmas with your mother because Christmas is special [00:53:50] for her.
[00:53:50] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:53:50] Ericka: All of these things.
[00:53:53] Dr. Taz: Are things to navigate
[00:53:53] Ericka: are are things to navigate. [00:53:55] And they're not impossible hurdles, they just have to be addressed.
[00:53:58] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:53:58] Ericka: And that's why I wrote it and I, you [00:54:00] know, I love talking to women about their lives and what's going on with them because, you know, [00:54:05] it's, we kind of, we run the world, but sometimes we forget to check in on [00:54:10] ourselves.
[00:54:10] Dr. Taz: I wish almost there was like. An objective accountability team for [00:54:15] every new mom.
[00:54:15] Ericka: Hmm.
[00:54:16] Dr. Taz: You know what I mean? Like you, I don't know who would be on that team, but maybe it's a family [00:54:20] member, it's a professional of some kind.
[00:54:22] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:22] Dr. Taz: And they're almost like [00:54:25] picking at you with like, how are you doing? Yeah. You know, like, where are you and where have you [00:54:30] sacrificed maybe a little bit too much mm-hmm.
[00:54:31] Dr. Taz: And compromise too much and all the different scenarios that you're in as [00:54:35] a mom, you know? But, well,
[00:54:36] Ericka: in some countries that is some, that's a part of a benefit [00:54:40] for new mothers. They get a, a, a mom group of different mothers mm-hmm. [00:54:45] Come together. And whether it's once a week or every other week where they can point of connection [00:54:50] and there's someone, a facilitator checking in.
[00:54:52] Ericka: Now we don't do that. We don't, no. We don't even have [00:54:55] paid maternity leave.
[00:54:56] Dr. Taz: Right, right.
[00:54:57] Ericka: But I think that you're right. I wish there was [00:55:00] this. Built in support and you know, we have to find it. [00:55:05] We have to find our village. Yeah. But we also have to be picky about who's in that village, who enters, who [00:55:10] enters
[00:55:10] Dr. Taz: that village.
[00:55:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And don't make decisions out of fatigue or insecurity [00:55:15] or, you know,
[00:55:16] Ericka: well, you're gonna make those decisions out of fatigue and insecurity at first.
[00:55:19] Dr. Taz: Yeah. But [00:55:20] then be aware of when to get out.
[00:55:21] Ericka: Yeah. Be aware of the exit. Be aware of how you feel, how the, [00:55:25] the, those friends treat other people. Do they have the same morals and values that [00:55:30] you want for your family and for yourself.
[00:55:32] Ericka: Like, those aren't silly questions. That's real, [00:55:35] you know?
[00:55:35] Dr. Taz: And then the exit plan, I'm curious what you'll, what you have to say here. Is that cold Turkey we're [00:55:40] done? Or is that. A conversation? Or is that, you know,
[00:55:44] Ericka: now it [00:55:45] depends on the scenario because there's so many different scenarios. I like the Quiet exit where you just kind of like, [00:55:50] don't hang out as often and you can come up with the excuse, just withdraw.
[00:55:53] Ericka: Yeah. We withdraw a little bit. Like, oh, I'm so busy, or [00:55:55] work ramped up, or I have to take care of my mother-in-law, whatever it is. Yeah. The quiet exit is like a [00:56:00] safer exit, but it could be a situation, and I've had this where [00:56:05] the, sometimes the behavior was so egregious that I thought, I'm gonna say something.
[00:56:09] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:56:09] Ericka: [00:56:10] And uh, and I haven't regretted it.
[00:56:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:56:12] Ericka: And, and I moved on and [00:56:15] I think that, again, there's no. No one's gonna [00:56:20] change if there's no consequence for the behavior.
[00:56:22] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:56:22] Ericka: And I think that's what's, that's a really [00:56:25] important step in helping reduce the level of toxicity or mingle [00:56:30] behavior in our culture.
[00:56:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:56:31] Ericka: Um, and you may not change that person, but you can change your [00:56:35] circumstance and you can find different friends and you can find different support. And that goes for adult women, and it goes for girls, it [00:56:40] goes for college students. Mm. All through your life. You can find like-minded [00:56:45] people. You just have to be willing.
[00:56:47] Ericka: You
[00:56:47] Dr. Taz: have to,
[00:56:47] Ericka: to take the step.
[00:56:49] Dr. Taz: Well, I wish I [00:56:50] had this book when I was going through the throes of, of new motherhood and navigating [00:56:55] everything with my daughter and all the things. I have a lot of wisdom now. Yeah. But I almost feel like, you know, I [00:57:00] wish I had this from the get go. So,
[00:57:01] Ericka: and that's, and sharing it.
[00:57:02] Ericka: Yeah. That's like the most important thing. That's what I, I love having these [00:57:05] conversations because if we don't talk about them, people really do feel that they're alone.
[00:57:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:57:09] Ericka: They feel like they're [00:57:10] struggling with this and no one's gonna get them
[00:57:12] Dr. Taz: very much. And you know what, and I, and I already said this, [00:57:15] but there were many days that I just.
[00:57:16] Dr. Taz: I thought it was me. I thought I was crazy.
[00:57:18] Ericka: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:19] Dr. Taz: I thought I was not good [00:57:20] enough. Exactly. I mean, I, all those negative thoughts right? From wherever they're coming from, [00:57:25] I always blame myself before I was like, no, this is ridiculous. You know? [00:57:30] So, um, so I hope this book helps. Mm-hmm. Women everywhere at whatever stage of motherhood they're in [00:57:35] and whatever groups they're in.
[00:57:36] Dr. Taz: I think it's definitely a need, and I think it's gonna be my new baby shower [00:57:40] gift for everybody. How's that? That's amazing. I love that. Well, final question before we [00:57:45] let you go. Actually, two questions. Where can we find your book? Where can people find you if they wanna reach out to you? Yep. [00:57:50] And then what makes you whole?
[00:57:52] Ericka: Uh, yeah, we can find the book on Amazon, [00:57:55] Barnes and Noble, pretty much wherever books are sold. Um, and then you can reach out [00:58:00] to me on Instagram, um, LinkedIn, Facebook. I actually do [00:58:05] respond. Yay. Especially if a mom has a question about something that they're going through. [00:58:10] Um, I've even come to like mom groups, like, they'll be like, can you come and talk to a mom group?
[00:58:14] Ericka: But if I can get [00:58:15] there,
[00:58:15] Dr. Taz: yeah,
[00:58:15] Ericka: I can do it. Or I can zoom, which is now, I would do so much of everything these days, [00:58:20] um, because I really feel like conversations are the best way to cut, to heal what [00:58:25] women are going through. And honest, I'm super honest. So be prepared for
[00:58:29] Dr. Taz: Mm,
[00:58:29] Ericka: love it. [00:58:30] Total honesty. And what keeps me whole, you know, at different points in my life, it was [00:58:35] different things.
[00:58:35] Ericka: In my twenties, it was my career. I thought, oh, this is, this is who I am.
[00:58:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:58:39] Ericka: Right. [00:58:40] And then, um, once I had a family, um, I. [00:58:45] I think it's like you, you, you do, you want your kids to be happy. Yeah. They always [00:58:50] say You're only as happy as your unhappiest child. Yeah. So when my kids are doing [00:58:55] well and they are happy, that helps completely.
[00:58:58] Ericka: But [00:59:00] I have a pie chart of completion. There's my kids, there's my romantic relationship with my [00:59:05] spouse. Mm-hmm. And then there's things that I do that are just for me. And [00:59:10] for me, my career is just for me because I crafted a career that I love. Mm-hmm. So when that pie chart [00:59:15] is, when those things are each doing well, I feel complete.
[00:59:19] Ericka: But in real life. [00:59:20] There, something's always struggling a little bit. Yeah,
[00:59:23] Dr. Taz: of course.
[00:59:23] Ericka: Something's always like nature, nature. Something's [00:59:25] always struggling a little bit, but it's me taking a holistic look at my world and am I working hard [00:59:30] to make all of those sections be the best that they can be? That really does complete me.
[00:59:33] Ericka: It's work.
[00:59:34] Dr. Taz: I love [00:59:35] that. I love that you like, took a little spin on the word whole plus and basically [00:59:40] you approach your identities and roles holistically.
[00:59:43] Ericka: Yeah.
[00:59:44] Dr. Taz: I love that. [00:59:45] And that makes you whole, I think. I love that explanation. Well, thank you so much for your time today. [00:59:50] This has been so incredibly helpful.
[00:59:52] Dr. Taz: I hope people will take your advice and [00:59:55] all of the research that you've done and be able to move forward in a, in a really healthy way. So thank you. That [01:00:00] community body's important. Our community health is important. It plays into the numbers that we see in [01:00:05] our exam room, so it's all connected and
[01:00:06] Ericka: you're not alone
[01:00:07] Dr. Taz: and you're definitely not alone.
[01:00:08] Dr. Taz: So for everybody [01:00:10] watching and listening to this episode, thank you again. We post new episodes every week, so don't forget [01:00:15] to subscribe. Before you go, take a second to reflect on what stood out for you [01:00:20] today. Then if you can leave a quick review wherever you're listening, it [01:00:25] really helps other people discover Whole Plus and start their own healing journey.
[01:00:29] Dr. Taz: And [01:00:30] don't forget to follow me on Instagram at Dr. TAs md. I love hearing how these [01:00:35] episodes are supporting you.