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Demystifying The Indie Film Journey
Between 20 30% of the total revenue of a film, especially an indie film, I think is the context here, comes from theatrical. Now you could totally break even or even make money in theatrical, but that still is gonna represent 25, 30 maybe percent of your total revenue. So you gotta think of it in that context. This is truly independent, a show that demystifies the indie film journey by documenting the process of releasing independent films in theaters. Each week, Garrett Batty and I, Darren Smith, will update you on our journey, bringing guests to share their insights into the process and answer your questions.
Daren:Today on the podcast, Faith of Angels is wrapping down just as the Carpenter is spinning up. We have premieres galore, and we're releasing in a few weeks, so we transition into Carpenter Mode today on Truly Independent. It's episode 21. Hey. Hey.
Daren:That's a Garrett Batty, I see. How's it going, man?
Garrett:Hey. Good. How are you? I'm so good.
Daren:I'm getting
Garrett:my reading glasses on.
Daren:What, what what hotel are you in today?
Garrett:Yeah. This is not my regular background. Right? I'm down in Atlanta. We're getting ready to do the red carpet premiere for, the carpenter tonight at the, Atlantic station, Regal.
Garrett:And, and so we got in I got in yesterday and spent some time checking out the theaters, and, I'm excited about it.
Daren:Amazing. So I'm I'm gonna be asking you next week about, like, we've done a premiere at, like, every big circuit now at this point. We've done AMC, and we've done Cinemark, and we've done Megaplex, and we've done now Regal. So I'm gonna ask you about which one's your favorite next week.
Garrett:You're putting me on the spot there.
Daren:I am. I am. I actually put put on, LinkedIn the other day, like, which theater chain is most friendly and supportive to indie filmmakers? Because I think that's an important thing for us to to recognize. My guess is it's gonna be the independents that went out on that poll.
Daren:But Interesting. Cool. What are you doing in Atlanta? Like, you've been hopping time zones the last few weeks. We're you're, like, full on transitioned into Carpenter mode.
Garrett:Yeah. I mean, I think and that's a that's a great way to great way to start this episode is yes. I mean, we're a 100% carpenter mode. We, the plan from the, Krebs family who who funded the carpenter and who is now funding the distribution and, you know, this is their baby. It's somewhat of a work for hire project for me, which is which is wonderful to be a part of.
Garrett:I still feel like I have this creative input, but but have definitely been kind of, at the just, I guess, executing what they want. The, I've forgotten the question already, Darren. Yeah. But they but they the plan was to do these premieres, 5 big premieres through the month of October to lead up to our nationwide release on November 1st in theaters across the country. So, yes, we did San Diego last week.
Garrett:I'm now in Atlanta this week, Salt Lake City next week, and then we've got Dallas, and we're looking at doing, Memphis or Nashville, the following week, which I'm which, again, is so so great to be able to sit in a theater and watch this movie, with different audiences and gauge their reactions and really, really do all we can to promote.
Daren:Yeah. So I I have to ask then, like, how is this experience different? In what ways is it different, better, or worse than Faith of Angels? Because not many filmmakers get to go, like, 1 month apart between 2 movies and have really different experiences. You talked about how, you know, you were really driving the strategy, and you were the lead on the release for Faith of Angels.
Daren:You had people working with you, with us for that release. But now you're kind of part of the team instead of running the team. So talk to us about the differences. What what do you like? What do you not like?
Daren:And and maybe how these two experiences back to back will inform what you'll do differently in the future.
Garrett:Well, it's a good question. And, you know, there are lots of things to learn along the way and observations to make. And, you know, my own pride and ego to set aside. I'll I'll tell you, it's and and there there are different movies and different audiences. So I think, you know, for while Faith of Angels, I think we certainly identified and built our audience.
Garrett:It was we we knew a 100% that we were going for the faith based film goer, and that's who we targeted. And those are the media outlets that we reached out to, and that's who attended the premiers and or events and screenings. And and you, Darren, you even went across the country into Dallas and San Jose and, attended in Salt Lake, to to get an audience out there. For the for the Krebs family, this this film was originally designed to be for their family. And so they have taken that approach to to a lot of it.
Garrett:You know? So San Diego, a lot of the premier were they they were on on a first name basis with with the people that attended, the the red carpet premier. Atlanta tonight will be a little bit different because, you know, I've reached out some to some personal contacts. We have a PR person, BJ Arnett, who did the PR for the premiere. So we are gonna lean into the faith based audience here in Atlanta, and I think it'll be interesting for the Krebs family to, to experience that where there's media, on the red carpet and they're doing interviews and and learning you know, speaking in sound bites and really promoting the film to an audience that that frankly doesn't have to be kind.
Garrett:And I don't expect anybody to. I expect the audience to be honest, and I think perhaps I I think that we will be pleasantly surprised with how an audience who we don't know their first names are seeing this film. I don't know if that's I don't know if that's what you were asking, Darren, but that's kinda where that's what's in my mind right now.
Daren:Yeah. No. That's that's what I'm after. I I am curious if there are anything, if there's anything different with the approach for Carpenter than what we did on Faith of Angels, leading up to it, obviously, multiple premieres is a different strategy. We had one in Utah.
Daren:We only had 2 special screenings before that, 1 in Idaho and 1 in Utah. So it feels like, that's maybe part of it that trying to get more word-of-mouth early on, trying to get more media out early on. Is that accurate, or am I am I painting a picture that isn't real?
Garrett:I I think that that's accurate. I think that one of the things that we learned from Faith of Angels and we're implementing in the Carpenter is the importance of having media and your team attend these premieres. You know, so, yes, there's the red carpet and the the the fun vibe that we're building in in a theater and at a screening. And if you have 200 people there at the event, hopefully, that audience represents 2,000,000 followers or subscribers or social media a network of 2,000,000 or whatever. So the invitations have been specific.
Garrett:You know, the invitations to media and who gets tickets and things like that, yes, we've opened it up to the public, but we've specifically invited influencers and media representatives and those, you know, faith leaders, those that have followings so that it will hope of hopefully, you know, ripple and magnify this this event. We also have, you know, a couple of camera teams, where we're doing some stills and and media, you know, video, that we will immediately turn around and release and push throughout the campaign so that it's again, there's the event, but then what is the echo or what are the repercussions of that? And that's what we're trying to do is just make a loud enough echo so that on November 1st, people do come back.
Daren:Yeah. So we're recording this on October 15th. That puts us a little less than 3 weeks out from the opening day of, The Carpenter. And we're going straight for, like, let's release on as many screens as possible with this one rather than doing kind of a tiered release or a limited and then a wider release. So I was just looking at our tracking sheet, and we're at a 150 theaters that have booked, which is, I think, pretty good for 3 weeks out.
Daren:And then out of 1600 that they reached out to you so, again, you're working with Purdy Distribution, and they've reached out, requested 1600 theaters to book the movie. So it's rare to to to ever see, like, a 100% or 80% of the theaters you request will book it. So that's a smaller percentage than that that you would expect. But how are you feeling there? Does it feel like you're on track for 600 screens, which is the goal?
Daren:Or is it like, oh, we're behind. We need we should be at 4 or 500 by now?
Garrett:Well, I've, I would I think any filmmaker would love to. Hey. We just wanna know we're at 600. That's our goal. We wanna know that we're there.
Garrett:I think what we learned with Faith of Angels is that doesn't happen. For an independent film, you know, to to get 3 weeks notice of a booking is a luxury and not a not kind of a common occurrence. I had dinner last night with Purdy. They are here at the premiere. Both Nice.
Garrett:Don and and Adam, Montierth are they'll be here at the event. And so bumped into them at dinner and chatted, and they were feeling very good, very confident that we'll get what we're looking for and even more. I think Faith of Angels with them has been a very good measuring stick and to connect with both the big chains and the independent theaters. And, it's a good talking talking point. So as they are following up and as we are kind of winding down the Faith of Angels premiere, that conversation just leads into the next one, which goes to support the importance of kind of building an audience and then having content to to feed that audience.
Garrett:So for Purdy, the audience are theater buyers. Right? And so they've got an audience of, you know, 600 screens or 1800 requested theaters. And I don't know how many theater buyers represent those screens, but it's certainly in the 100 that they are engaging with weekly via email to to try to book, you know, their titles. Fortunately, Faith of Angels and The Carpenter are are, you know, follow or subsequent titles for them.
Garrett:So we're in those conversations, you know, for the duration. But, yes, we're confident that they'll get the the goal of 600. It'd be nice if they were all there, but they're not. One of the cool things is though, that tickets are on sale, for the carpenters. So that's part of the campaign is, hey, we are 3 weeks out.
Garrett:I think we wanted tickets to go on sale on 18th. But right now, anybody who's booking, they're they're putting their tickets on sale.
Daren:Yeah. That's huge. And as we've talked about on the show, like, the earlier you can get tickets on sale, the easier it is to get people to the theater. That gives us time to do marketing, to do word-of-mouth, to find someone locally, and say, Hey, I know my cousin lives in Albuquerque, so let's say, Hey, I know you're gonna go see it. Will you create a post on Facebook and take 20 friends to go with you opening weekend?
Daren:Those things are possible when you have 2, 3 weeks notice. When you have 2 days, it gets really hard to get people out to the theater, which is kind of what we had with Faith of Angels when I flew out to Sacramento. So that's exciting to hear that some of those lessons learned from Faith of Angels are being implemented there. So I guess I'm I'm also curious, Garrett, because this kind of, I think, goes outside of what most filmmakers think is a director's job. And, obviously, you're a writer, director, and producer on both of these movies, so you do have a a broader, stewardship over these films.
Daren:But where where do you like to land? Is it uncomfortable for you as the writer director to have to step into the producer role and take responsibility and make sure things are happening, or do you enjoy that part? Like, maybe give us some insight around that for for people that are listening because I I wouldn't want filmmakers to go, oh, man. I'm scared of being a director because look at all this work I have to do with distribution. I think we're very unique in that sin situation of we're doing a lot more than most writer directors would do.
Daren:But flip side of that is I think it's actually a good lesson for a lot of listeners to learn of, like, no one is gonna take more responsibility for your film than you. So talk to me about that. How are you feeling about are you itching to get back on set? Like, would you rather be filming right now? Or, where are you at with all that?
Garrett:Yeah. That's a it's a great that's a good discussion, Darren. I'd be interested to hear your take on that too.
Daren:Hey, indie filmmakers and movie lovers. This show is sponsored by Purdy Distribution. Since 2011, they've been bringing incredible independent films to theaters, like Garrett Batty's The Saratov Approach, TC Christiansen's Love Kennedy, and McClain Nelson's Once I Was A Beehive. They've worked with top notch directors like Mitch Davis and Mark Goodman, specializing in family, faith based, and funny films. This year alone, they've released hits with JK Studios like Go West and Villains Inc, and have even branched out internationally with films shot in South Africa and Japan.
Daren:Purdy Distribution works closely with indie filmmakers, designing personalized distribution plans, whether it's a theatrical release or straight to streaming on platforms like Amazon, Itunes, Google, and more. If you have a PG or PG 13 film ready for the world, think about reaching out to Purdy distribution. They're approachable and knowledgeable, ready to help you visualize your film's distribution. Even if your film isn't fully polished, they can offer valuable guidance. Plus, if you need that crucial distribution piece for investor packages, Purdy distribution can provide a letter of intent to distribute, helping you secure funding without locking you into a contract.
Daren:Mark your calendars for Purdy Distribution's upcoming releases, Tokyo cowboy on August 30th, the digital release of Thabo and the Rhino Case on September 1st, Faith of Angels in theaters on September 12th, Villains Inc on Amazon and Itunes on October 1st, and The Carpenter on November 1st. To stay updated on these releases and more, sign up for their newsletter at purdiedistribution.com. That's purdiedistribution.com. Now, back to the show.
Garrett:You know, as a producer, are you going, hey, I wanna, why am I not in Atlanta or whatever, you know. And again, this is a unique situation with the Carpenter. But but yes, as a director, I mean, I I'm, you know, last night, I'm going around checking out different theaters and making sure standees are there. And that that's my role as a producer. Or, honestly, that's the distributor's role, but, we're helping that out, and I I show up as a producer.
Garrett:Tonight, I'll put on my fancy suit and and go walk the red carpet as the director and be interviewed and and, do all that I can to promote the film from that creative side of things. So, yes, it is 2 different hats. I try to compartmentalize those two things. And to answer your other question, yes, I miss I'm I'm itching to, be involved in the creative process again. In fact, I've read 2 scripts this week, that were submitted to me and watched 2 other short submissions for ideas about next projects.
Garrett:And it's just got me kinda longing for that creative side of things. I think as an independent film for an independent filmmaker, you know, for the for the for the audience of this of this series, I mean, truly independent, I don't think there's any way around, really just kinda rolling up your sleeves and getting involved. You know, I haven't this is my 8th feature film, and I have yet to, you know, be hired solely to direct a project as far as feature film goes. So I think that that is inevitably part of the process is just getting behind and and getting it. I've got good buddies that direct for Hallmark and and, other kinda distributors, and maybe that is the case with them where they write or direct and then deliver and move on.
Garrett:But an independent film, that that world doesn't exist Yeah. In my experience.
Daren:That's cool.
Garrett:Where are you where are you on that as far as producing? Are you going, hey, you know, stay in your lane?
Daren:No. I I don't feel that way about you or anything, but I I definitely see the producer's role as for the life of the film. Even on the movies that I was hired as a line producer, I probably overstepped because I went into the job of being a producer thinking I'm responsible for everything. Even though I probably, at the time in the first one or two movies, didn't even understand the difference between a producer and a line producer, I just thought, oh, I'm also in charge of the budget, but I'm gonna help with creative, and I'm gonna give notes on the script. And they were like, why are you giving notes?
Daren:You're the line producer. I'm like, because I have notes. Like, they're good notes. The writer said so himself. So I just was always like, everything's my responsibility.
Daren:I'm gonna take responsibility for it all and be involved. And so I'm thoroughly enjoying being involved with, the release of Faith of Angels and even now helping it, you know, telling people, hey. I saw that it's now open in your city, and you were asking me about that 2 weeks ago and sending text to people and checking on, you know, every day. How did the how did we do on Monday? How did we do over the weekend?
Daren:I'm tracking it against other comparable movies that are that have come out this year or are coming out. So I love the data and the analytics, and and I'm trying to capture as many lessons as possible so that I can, on the next movie, say, yeah. I have a real depth of knowledge and experience with distribution as well as development and financing and production and post and all the other skills I have. But I have just as you've kinda transitioned into carpenter mode, I've transitioned into what's next mode. And so for me, it's a lot of fundraising, a lot of conversations with investors, potential investors, people outside of the film industry.
Daren:You know, I just put an event together. There's a group here in Utah called the Utah Producers Network. It's not an official thing. It's just kind of a ad hoc. The film commission asked us to keep having meetings, and I was one who volunteered and said, I can help with that.
Daren:And so I am. And we had 2 this year, and the one on Friday, you were at. It was great. It was a nice meet and greet for people inside and outside the industry, and so I'm doing a lot of that work. Like, how do I connect people?
Daren:How do I find and and, bring in people from outside the industry to help bolster financing and investment in film here in Utah? And, you know, it's very self serving. So
Garrett:Well well well, you say that. I mean, it is self serving. But my goodness, what an event you pulled off. And, yes, you invited me and I attended that. And, you know, within walking in the door, I'm having conversations with guys, with producers that that whose films are going to be in theaters.
Garrett:Who was it? Chet Thomas and Darren Fletcher produced the the greatest Christmas pageant ever. And that'll be in theaters a week after the Carpenter. And so we traded notes and chatted it up and, I got to talk about their other projects. We compared notes on potential distributors for both of our projects and, it was a it was a great event.
Garrett:So for as self serving as you think it may have been, there were a lot of people that benefited. So thank you for that.
Daren:Yeah. That's why it's self serving. I love hearing that, oh my gosh. This was amazing. I met so many cool people and these conversations happen.
Daren:Like, that's the thing that really satisfies me. But I will say too, like, how am I feeling about, my role in the Carpenter release? I'm actually a little bummed. Like, to be perfectly frank, I think we filmmakers see our involvement as, like, a key aspect of a premiere or the release of a film. You know?
Daren:And to to not be there in Atlanta with you, I'm like, oh, man. I would love to be there. I'd love to be at the premiers, and seeing the movie with audiences is why I make movies. Like, I love making movies, the the actual craft of it. Getting on set with craftspeople, with filmmakers, people who are passionate about telling stories and creating art and doing creative things together and, like, making something that didn't exist before is super fulfilling.
Daren:And then it's half of the puzzle. The other half is how do we get as many people as possible to see it. Maybe this can transition into a faith of angels update, but, like, the fact that 50,000 plus people have seen Faith of Angels just excites me to no end. And so I'm I am missing the like, oh, I would I'd go to San Diego. I have family there.
Daren:I I'd go to Atlanta. I have friends there, like, from my days, you know, scouring the country for relatives on relative race. I I every city you mentioned is like, oh, I know so and so there in Memphis and there in so and so in Dallas. Like Yeah. So I I feel not left out.
Daren:I just am like, ah, the FOMO of I'm missing those awesome events that you're at, and, and that's okay. Like, you you called it work for hire, and and I I was not hired, and that's okay. Like, that's part of the gig as well. Sometimes you're needed, sometimes you aren't. And so I'm trying to take full advantage of, okay.
Daren:Well, if I'm not there, what am I doing here to set up the next thing?
Garrett:I wondered, Darren, too. Yeah. I mean, that is it's an important, I guess, point to discuss. And at what point does making a film, and I think in both of these, Faith of Angels and The Carpenter, you know, they've they've had 2 different approaches and 2 different journeys. You know, I've been on The Carpenter's for probably 10 years.
Garrett:You know, long before anybody else was involved Mhmm. It was a conversation between the, you know, the Krebs family and me. And so so, let's see. Where am I going with that? If let's see.
Garrett:And I feel like I'm here in their minds almost as a technician. Like, there is this, the director is, you know, the creative, you know, film serves the director. Right? Television serves the writer. Film serves the director.
Garrett:And there's the the director's kind of the owner or or at least curator of everybody's talents and then delivers the content. And but but in a in a you know, I mentioned Hallmark or something. In that movie, I see in in in that scenario, I see my buddies. They'd send out like one tweet. Hey, check out my movie on Hallmark.
Garrett:And they're onto the next shiny object.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:And part of me is, you know, longs for that and say, look. If is the reason I'm here because right now, this is all I got. Like this is the shiny object that's in front of me and boy, I might read another script and everything, but there's nobody out there saying, hey, come and be involved in this next thing. And so it's like, okay. Well, I better, you know, I'm grateful for the work for hire to be hired.
Garrett:But, you know, I certainly see the end of the road real quick. November 2nd, after this releases, what do what do I do as the as the as the person that's put all the time and effort and energy into this? I I don't know, you know, I gotta be on the next thing. So I it's an interesting sentiment. I guess at some point, the journey, the road is going to end.
Garrett:For you, you're onto the next thing already. And I'll be right there. I don't know. I guess I don't have a point other than that's kind of I'm processing that.
Daren:Yeah. That's okay. I think you brought up something that I've thought about a little bit, and this isn't meant to be a value statement as far as which one is better or worse. It's just a preference statement. But, like, I see the difference between a movie in theaters and a TV movie or a streaming movie or a fast channel movie as the difference, you know, in some ways, between art and commerce.
Daren:You know, one is you're kind of creating a commodity. They need content. They need product that's gonna go in a time slot on this day in Christmas. Right? And they know they need 30 Christmas movies every year because they want to play a different one every day.
Daren:So it's it's a little bit of very basic supply and demand, creating commodities. They don't I don't even wanna say that part of whether or not they're good because many are very good. But they're produced in a different way. It's on a schedule, has to be done by this date, get it done no matter what. Whereas with a theatrical film, you can take 10 years.
Daren:You can craft it over multiple versions and multiple, potential ways of producing it and create something that you're really, really proud of and that you've invested years of your life in, and be invested in how it's received in the marketplace because it's a piece of art. You're trying to communicate something with people and impact people and leave an impression on people, not just fill a time slot. Again, I I I don't want to cheapen 1 versus the other. That's just kinda how I feel about it personally, which is why I pursue feature films that are gonna be in theaters. Like, that's the thing that pulls me and satisfies my need for creativity and being a producer.
Daren:So I just think that's interesting too. Like, there's trade offs all around. Like, you may really like the aspect of watching your movie in theaters at a premiere with an audience. You won't get that if it's a Hallmark movie. If it's a work for hire, there is no premiere.
Daren:There is no theater. There is you're right. Sure. And so, again, neither is right or wrong. It just is being really aware of, okay.
Daren:If I don't own this thing, I'm not gonna have certain outcomes. Just and this is very clear between faith of angels and Carpenter. You really own faith of angels when you really don't own the Carpenter. And so the experience is different. Your involvement is different.
Daren:What you get out of it and what you can put into it is different. So I think those are all just important considerations for filmmakers to make, especially those going into an industry who may be thinking, I'll just say yes to anything. If someone wants to pay me money to direct, I'll do it. Well, yeah. You say yes to a lot of things early early on, but at some point you kinda have to go, what do I really want out of this, and is this the outcome that I got into this for?
Garrett:So that's a good question for an independent filmmaker. You know, I was listening to this podcast, Truly Independent. You know, I guess if somebody I don't let's see. What's my question? I don't think there's anything wrong.
Garrett:In fact, I'm sometimes often wonder what it's like in that on that side of the world where where you get the call from from Hallmark or the client, you know, your contact there and says, hey. We you know, here's a here's a script. We take a look. Here's your budget. Here's the schedule.
Garrett:Are you available to come do this thing? You know, and I've I've done plenty of client projects where it's that not on a feature film base, but, you know, here's a commercial. Here's a series. Here's a pilot. Here's a script.
Garrett:We can direct this. You know, and I'm so so grateful for those projects and they come and it's work and and, it's a paycheck and I'll take it. So is that, as an independent filmmaker, do I do I if I could find a way to for that to, like, itch that creative scratch scratch that creative itch I have, I think that'd be a great way to make a living.
Daren:Oh, 100%. I think it all exists on a spectrum of, like, pure art and no money and pure money and no art. Right? And Yeah. All of us wanna be somewhere in the middle, and it doesn't mean we have to stay in one locked in spot because we made one decision.
Daren:My first movie was a r rated, psychological thriller about, you know, a family in a house. And the second one was, another r rated horror thriller, and there was some bloody gory slashy stuff going on. And I realized well, first of all, I said yes to those projects because I needed projects. And I don't feel like I, betrayed my values or anything by doing those movies. But by the time the second one was done and my kids are asking, when can we see your movies?
Daren:I'm going, I can't show them this movie. That's not Yeah. That's not a thing that's happening until they're much older. And so I'm going, well, that's not what I did this for. I didn't get into this to produce movies that people can't watch.
Daren:That's not the point. And it was very clear that I had produced movies that a certain audience represented by my 3 kids could not watch. So, hence, the next two movies being faith family based movies that are PG PG 13 that my kids love. They love The Carpenter. They love Faith of Angels.
Daren:They've come to premieres. They've brought their friends to see it. That is very satisfying and fulfilling. So same thing. Right?
Daren:What kind of movies do you wanna make? What kind of jobs do you wanna take? Where what prior what takes priority as far as art and commerce or art and revenue in your life, and it's okay if you do one movie and then you do another movie and then you do another one. You kind of fluctuate back and forth. Every single person's different.
Daren:You just have to I think it's essential and important to make a conscious decision rather than letting whatever is happening in the marketplace dictate what you're gonna work on.
Garrett:Yeah. Or you're not chasing, your audience. You've you've built it and they're you're you're feeding them.
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:In fact, nourishing them. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what a fascinating topic. You mentioned Faith of Angels.
Garrett:We're on week 6 of that theatrical release and, definitely winding down, which has been so fun. And, yeah, 50,000 people are watching that in the theaters. You you we always want more, but, the awareness is extremely high, and I'm excited about prospects for our streaming audience and our post theatrical, distribution efforts. And I look forward to kinda talking about those in future episodes of the podcast because that is an entirely new not new. I guess post theatrical is something we haven't really even preached on this and that should be discussed.
Garrett:There are so many outlets and decisions to be made. And you know, from the minute that this movie plays in theaters, I start getting emails from sales agents and distributors and streamers and and know, you just go, oh, how do what do we how do we you know, what does all this mean? And so we're gonna break that down in future episodes.
Daren:Yeah. It's a good teaser for next week.
Garrett:Yeah. Not a special guest.
Daren:Exactly. Well, yeah, very cool. It's been fun to just be tracking this every single day to get the Flash reports, to get comp score reports from Purdy distribution. They show up in my inbox every morning, and I just, like, I dive into those and what theaters are doing best this weekend and who's still holding. And, gosh, it's so fun.
Daren:And what's kinda crazy to think about is, like, yeah, we opened on 375 theaters, and then some of those went away, and then we added more. And then the next week, some of the existing ones went away, and we added more. So we've probably cleared 400 theaters that have shown the movie, which to me is just astounding for our little indie that could. The, like, 400 theaters wanted it, saw value in it, said, oh, I know our audience here locally, and they will like this movie. That just says a lot.
Daren:And the fact the movie is still performing as far as ratings and reviews and people like the movie, man, it's been fun to watch. So, yeah, it's it's winding down. We did 17,416 dollars estimated over the weekend, so that's we've had days that were bigger than this last weekend. Again, we have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 movies that came out this week, Some horror movies, some rereleases, some other movies. And, especially, we should comment on our friend 6 Days in August.
Daren:So this is transitioning into our box office report, but 6 Days in August opened this weekend. We had their trailer on Faith of Angels, and so that was a nice collaborative thing. And I think they're showing The Carpenter on theirs, if I'm not mistaken. So that's another strategy that you can implement is who else is out there releasing similar movies, and can you guys trailer on each other? It was really nice that we had 2 movies so we could do that trade.
Daren:It benefited the carpenter. But they opened, in spot 27. Had a great opening weekend, a $1,000 per screen average. So congrats to them for getting the movie out on 82 theaters. Super cool.
Daren:I also want I
Garrett:mean, I'll comment on that too. That is amazing. That is sue that's Susan Tucker who's been a guest on the Mhmm. Podcast. And I think, initially, she was just going to do the Utah release for 6 days in August.
Garrett:Right? In fact, when we talked to her, we said, okay. We'll put Carpenter Theaters or we'll put the Carpenter trailer on that or and, but but I think we trailed 6 days in August on Faith of Angels. Like, it was on our DCP Yeah. That opened on that 375 screens 2 weeks before 6 days releases.
Garrett:So suddenly their box office goes up to 82 theaters from that initial plan of 30. And I don't I have no doubt that trailering on Faith of Angels impacted that.
Daren:Yeah. And I want to spend a minute or 2 on this because I think that's an interesting strategy because it's a bit of a forcing function. Right? If you're a Cinemark in Elk Grove, California and you have Faith of Angels playing, but you haven't yet booked 6 Days in August, but you're trailering it, does that make you feel like you need to book the movie, or do you think that the theaters aren't convinced that way?
Garrett:Well, we had a conversation last week with, Lott, Brandon Lott from from you know, who's an independent theater. He's not Cinemark or anything, but he's an independent. And he talked about building that that pre roll with the trailers and selecting which trailers go on those films. So, yes. I mean, I think that there's I think in that process, that creates an awareness.
Garrett:So if I'm a theater owner or a theater booker and I'm building the pre roll and saying, here's the DCP, here's the movie, and this trailer is included on the DCP, suddenly I'm at least aware of the movie. And so I go, okay. Well, if I'm aware of it, I'm gonna reach out and book it. It's not even there's the same distributor, so they would have had to actually reach out to a different distributor to book the film. But but I I agree, Darren.
Garrett:It's a it's a force function or it's an awareness. You know, it creates an audience so that they say, yeah. Let's let's book it.
Daren:Yeah. Well, I think, you know, they're following a similar strategy that we've talked about for 20 weeks on this podcast. You know, the rest of them opened on either 5 or 17 hundred, 17 hundred, 17 hundred, 18 hundred, 20 5 100 screens. And shout out to Terrifier 3, an indie horror movie that took number 1 in the box office, 25 100 screens, beat out Wild Robot, Beetlejuice Beetlejuice, Joker, Folio Doo, and Piece by Piece, like, beat every other movie. I think the lowest number one box office we've seen this year, or at least since we've been doing the podcast, but shout out to them for building an audience over 3 movies that showed up in droves.
Daren:I mean, they had a 56100 per screen average. It's a massive opening for this film.
Garrett:It's interesting. If you go back 6 months when we started this podcast, we talked about choosing a date for release. We said, hey, we do not wanna release or let's see. We knew that Joker was coming out on 4th. Right?
Garrett:We said the next week would be a vacuum because we assumed that and and the industry assumed that Joker was just going to be a hit and kinda and so everybody stayed away from the weekend, after Joker releases. Come to you know, now we see Joker didn't land. You know, typically, Joker would be number 1 for 2 weeks in a row. Mhmm. And, boy, when it didn't land, it sure opened up a window.
Garrett:And and I think Terra Fire really benefited from that. Also, I think it's very interesting. There's a great article in Deadline about Terra Fire 3 and Cineverse's marketing plan for that. And they said, look, you won't find a nationwide spot for Terra Fire 3. You won't find an advertisement.
Garrett:They did not just, you know, shrink the Hollywood playbook and, you know, instead of buying 10 spots, they bought 5. No. No. No. They only marketed to their existing audience.
Garrett:So Cineverse has created this, you know, this brand, Terrifier brand or whatever it is, and marketed specifically to their audience. I'm not their audience. I had no idea what this movie is, and have not seen an ad or a trailer or anything like that. But for very low amount, Cineverse found their audience, promoted it, and now it's the number one movie in the country. Yeah.
Daren:Pretty nuts. I'm curious what's, what's coming out November 1st along with the Carpenter. It doesn't say on the the box office report because this is a a looking back report as a as opposed to a looking forward. But
Garrett:Well yeah. And you can go on box office mojo sorry.
Daren:Go ahead.
Garrett:On box office mojo, you can go to calendar and then it will show you all of the titles that are coming out that weekend. So Carpenter is number 1 right now on that. The other one is Here. That's the big wide one with, the Robertson Mackensen. Tommy Banks and Which I'm just absolutely honored and thrilled.
Garrett:And talk about a dream come true to have a movie in theaters the same weekend that Robertson Mackensen is releasing a movie. Right. One of my one of my, favorite directors. So, yeah, it's a busy what is that? 6 weeks or 6 2 wides coming out.
Garrett:Oh, Here is a limited, but, Hit Pig and Lost on a Mountain in Maine is a wide release.
Daren:Yeah. I haven't heard of any of the movies except for Here and the Carpenter that weekend. So here's what's always interesting, and, again, I think I need, like, Stephen Follows to do some real analytics on this. But my my gut and my my memory of doing the data over the last year 2 years is that when there's a big massive opening, you know, wide release that does 50, a 100, $200,000,000, the number 10 spot is a lower box office amount, 4, 5, 600 k. When the number 12 spots are 14,000,000 like this week, then look at the number 10 spot, 1,600,000.
Daren:That's, again, higher than most of the movies this year for the number 10 spot. We had one other one a few weeks ago that was like 2 and a half 1000000, which is insanely high for the number 10 slot. So I think it's actually better for indies who are trying to break the top 10 to release the same weekend as a big movie.
Garrett:Interesting. Okay.
Daren:I think you'd have a better chance breaking top 10 the week that Deadpool came out as opposed to this week with Terrifier 3 being number 1 at 14,000,000.
Garrett:I'm going to, I'm gonna check your work on that. So Deadpool comes out. I mean, I agree. I love that theory. Deadpool comes out came out July.
Garrett:Right? So July 26th, we're gonna check that weekend. This is we're checking live numbers. But Darren, you've got 2 indies that are in the top ten on that weekend and Yep. You're a 100% right.
Garrett:Deadpool comes out, does 200,000,000 And the number 10 movie is Rayon, and it does 453,000. Number 9 does 700,000. So yeah.
Daren:And going number 8 did a1000000 and number 7 did 1.3. So there's 4 movies that weekend that would not have made the top 10 this weekend. That's massive. The the amount of free earned media marketing that you get for being in the top 10 because every single news outlet reports on the top 10. That's you know, when we're talking about impressions and awareness and people going, oh, I haven't heard of Faith Evangelist.
Daren:What's that? Like, if we were top 10 or if Carpenter gets top 10, the the tens or 100 of millions of impressions we're gonna get from being listed in the top ten is massive. It cannot be understated how big a deal that is for an indie film. The difference between top 10 and number 11 is awareness or no awareness. Like, no earned awareness.
Daren:So I'm very curious and excited to see how Carpenter does. I think it's gonna be a harder weekend because here, if it's limited, if they're doing a smaller a 5 theaters opening weekend on the first, you know, what else is what else is there? And then are we competing with the other titles that come out between now and November 1st? So it'll be really interesting to see, you know, a lot of limited movies coming out this week, like, throughout the week. Like, what's the next big wide one?
Daren:Conclave, I hadn't heard of that one. Ralph Fiennes, Stanley Tucci, John Lithgow, but it's like a smaller movie focused features. Venom, The Last Dance, that's a big one, but counter programming against what we're doing. All You Need is Blood. Haven't heard of that one, but it's a wide release.
Daren:There's really just not a lot of big movies. They're all waiting for later in November to hit the holiday.
Garrett:Yeah.
Daren:So pretty crazy.
Garrett:Yeah. It is pretty interesting. I think Venom yeah. I've seen a lot of spots for that. It should be interesting.
Garrett:Should should be a there's a chance. I mean, Carpenter is doing an amazing job with its marketing. We've reached out. We again, we've partnered with UFC. So come well, we're in October right now.
Garrett:So I think October 23rd or 25th is the big fight night in Dubai that, you know, whatever, pay per view watchers are are watching, they will know about the carpenter. I think awareness is gonna go through the roof. One of the ways we can track that is, you know, you look at the IMDB, the number the the the film number on where we're at. So this is something that Brandon at FilmFrog did with us in his office. And it was interesting to see how much weight that that he put on that.
Garrett:You know, as a film distributor, Mhmm. He looked I mean, he immediately, like, logged in and said, okay. Carpenter's tracking, you know, at that point, we're, like, 12,000 or something like that. And I think Faith of Angels is gonna be released is up at 23100. What is that?
Garrett:This it's not the star meter, is it? It's the popularity.
Daren:Yeah. It's the movie meter.
Garrett:Yeah. Faith of Angels is still
Daren:Faith of Angels is still at 41100 down from 23100, which I think was its top.
Garrett:It was peak. Yeah.
Daren:And then the carpenter looks like we're up to 4995.
Garrett:So we're up Yeah. And it's just climbing.
Daren:637 and climbing. So, yeah, if you click on that and look at it yeah. It's very cool. I do think like, going back to terms that we've used on this podcast, I do think in order to break top ten, we're gonna have to clear a 2,000 per screen average for the Carpenter opening weekend, which means a 100,000 people plus are gonna need to see the movie in those 3 days, which is a big ask for this movie. And so my hope is the the marketing efforts, the collaboration with UFC, all the awareness we're gonna be getting from these premieres drives that outcome.
Daren:Like, if if that can be our singular focus, I do think there's a chance it gets top 10. If if we are at 800 or a1000 or 1200, I don't think we hit it.
Garrett:Yeah. Yep. I yeah. I think you're right. I it it is a big ask.
Garrett:Yeah. And knowing what we know and having gone through what we've experienced with Faith of Angels, it's I mean, there are so many unpredictable occurrences that can take place and a different movie can be released. I mean, we just found out that, what is the movie? They're doing like a 10 year anniversary of John Wick. They're doing a a
Daren:Metropolis is coming out.
Garrett:Is that coming back out?
Daren:The 19 twenties movie Metropolis.
Garrett:Oh oh, Metropolis. Oh, yeah. Nightmare Before Christmas is doing a massive rerelease. Yeah.
Daren:It just did 2 and a half million this weekend.
Garrett:Yeah. And so, again, these are things that you can't I I think, again, probably Hollywood is looking at it, studios are looking at it and say, hey, here's a vacuum, or or availability of screens or, you know, what are these little independent films doing? You know, let's just easily put something out there. And, so when you never know. Yeah.
Garrett:But we'll we'll see. It's been a fun journey regardless.
Daren:It has been. Well, have fun out there.
Garrett:Real quick. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Garrett:I I do wanna answer a question. I know we're at 48 minutes already,
Daren:but,
Garrett:I'll answer, a question that came in. And they they wanted to know that, somebody reached out to me and said, how long will it take for you to recoup? Or, like, you know, for Faith of Angels or The Carpenter or these movies in general, like, how long? And I I thought that's an interesting question we haven't really addressed. I mean, obviously, every film is different.
Garrett:They were surprised to learn and that that we you rarely recoup in theaters. Like, that's just not a thing. A theatrical release creates an awareness thing. And maybe we'll get into this next week with our guest as far as the streaming revenues and things like that. But an independent film is gonna have a 7 to 10 year tail on it.
Garrett:Right? And so as we're doing deals, you know, we have to we have to keep that in mind that we are we're in it for the long run. Maybe it's coming back to your question or your comment about the producer. Hey. You're using it for the life of the film.
Garrett:Well, that's a 7 to 10 year. Yeah. Yeah.
Daren:If you're producing 3 movies a year over that period, now you've got 30 or 40 that are under your purview. So, yeah, it can be a lot. I've heard that, for indie films, I think this is a Stephen Follows data points. I trust everything he does because he's just take me take my level of nerdy when it comes to spreadsheets and analytics and multiply it by 3 orders of magnitude, and that's Stephen Follows.
Garrett:That's Stephen Follows. Okay.
Daren:I love that guy. So his breakdown basically shows that between 20 30% of the total revenue of a film, especially an indie film, I think is the context here, comes from theatrical. Now you could totally break even or even make money in theatrical, but that still is gonna represent 25, 30 maybe percent of your total revenue. So you gotta think of it in that context. And I think a big part of it we can do this another day, but a big part of it is you give up so much of the pie in theatrical.
Daren:You're splitting with so many different people. Whereas once you get into post theatrical, you're sometimes making 70, 80% of it of each dollar as opposed to 30% or 40% of each dollar. So maybe a topic for another day, how how recoupment, waterfalls, and things like that work. We did do a really in-depth breakdown of that a while ago. Maybe we include post theatrical going Yeah.
Garrett:I think that that'd be the next thing is, like, maybe let's look at one of these, offers from, you know, a no named let's see. I don't mean no named. I mean, an unidentified streamer. So, okay, where does that where does revenue come from?
Daren:Yeah.
Garrett:K, man. We miss you. I know you wish you were here, and, I wish you were out here too. Let you know how it goes.
Daren:Yeah. Thanks, man. Good luck out there. Have a lot of fun. Great episode.
Daren:We'll see you when we see you.
Garrett:K. Chat soon. Bye.
Daren:Thank you for listening to this episode of Truly Independent. To join us on the journey, be notified of new episodes and screenings, and ask us questions about today's episode, head over to 3 coin pro.com/podcast, and put in your name and an email address. If you're a fan of the show, please leave us a review on your favorite podcast app, and be sure to share this episode with a friend. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next week. Our intro and outro music is Election Time by Kjartan Abele.