Cheri Dotterer 0:00
Welcome to the writing glitch. I'm Cheri Dotterer, your classroom coach. Today we have Kelly fetter. She is the owner of handwriting solutions, a Florida Virtual and in person tutoring service. She's an occupational therapist and has been a friend of mine for several years. She has been a previous guest on the writing glitch. We're so glad to have you today. Kelly, it's great to have you back. Thank
Kelli Fetter 0:26
you. It is a joy to be back and just have a conversation with you, Cheri,
Cheri Dotterer 0:33
before we begin, let's get a word from our sponsor, disability labs. At disability labs, we are committed to impact the journey of 200,000 teachers, which translates to about 3 million students by 2030 so they can reignite their passion for learning. Our learning, our professional learning series focuses on math and writing strategies to help all students in your classroom. These interventions improve students with and without disabilities. All students have access to mathematics and writing skills. We have an ebook called The pizza problem, available for 1495 you can see information in the show notes. What is the pizza problem? It introduces the concept of squares to students, whether you're a teacher or an occupational therapist, this math problem uses vision to develop conceptual knowledge, and it will help kids from kindergarten through 12th grade by increasing the complexity of a student knowledge base and improving number sense. Now let's get back to Kelly and get on with the show. So Kelly, if people haven't heard your previous episode, tell us a little bit about who you are and what is handwriting solutions. Sure, as
Kelli Fetter 1:51
you mentioned previously, I worked as an occupational therapist. My entire occupational therapy background is in pediatrics. I worked in an outpatient setting. I did early intervention, I worked in school systems, and then eventually took a position as adjunct professor teaching both kinesiology and pediatrics. But along that journey, my own child, who is a sixth grader, now got a dyslexia and dysgraphia diagnosis, and so that really sent me on a path of discovery and knowledge seeking, because even as an occupational therapist, I was not well versed in learning disabilities. That is not something that they really provide you in that collegiate said, as a parent, and with that ot background, I really honed in on what the research is saying, what the evidence is saying, how I can help her as there are, there's a wealth of dyslexia research out there, not so much dysgraphia. So that was a little frustrating. I felt very lost. It was very easy to find help for her with the dyslexia, but when I said the word dysgraphia, I feel like the majority of people looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language. Most people, this includes professionals and educators, did not understand what this graph. They were not familiar with it, and I just, I went all in and tried to learn, called you up during those early days, tried to just soak in as much information as I could, and really took it upon myself to help my own child and help remediate and figure out what worked for her. And then other people started asking, I see that you helped your child. Can you help my child too? And handwriting solutions was born, and it still is, to this day, such a passion of mine to help kids now globally, to get the access to the services that they need, whether that be remediation, accommodation, however, we could get them there, because it's just such an underserved population.
Cheri Dotterer 4:03
Now we're just getting off of summer and headed back to school when we're recording this. You have a really busy summer because of your switch to the handwriting solutions. Tell us a little bit about what summer looked like at handwriting solutions.
Kelli Fetter 4:25
Summer is fun, but it is, it is a lot. We continue to serve students one on one, and we actually, and I'm not sure if your audience knows this yet or not, not only do we provide handwriting tutoring now, but we also have added reading and spelling teams to our services, and that's because how often the kiddos who struggle with handwriting have those reading and spelling struggles. So with that said, we had our regular one on one students working with us all summer, and maybe even increasing. In intensity. So maybe, if they were one or two times a week, maybe they were three or four times a week this summer. But then we also run our handwriting camps all summer long, and those are mostly virtual. We do have a few in office camps in our portal location, and those are great four days, intensive, explicit instruction, the results are just it will blow your mind, some of the results that these kiddos make in just four days. And it just speaks to the science of explicit, systematic instruction. And then we go from there, if they made great things in camps and they are at a great place, then that's wonderful. If they still need a little boost or a little help, then they move into our tutoring program.
Cheri Dotterer 5:52
You said, explicit and systematic. I will reiterate this. Almost every podcast episode The Science of reading has proven that explicit, systematic, cumulative and multi sensory approach will help benefit all students, not just kids that are struggling, but help benefit all students and help level the playing field for all students when we're looking at reading, transitioning to writing, there is a big overlap and intersection between the two disciplines to subject matters. But yet you mentioned it. They have this island that they live on. How are you other than adding staff, how are you integrating them during a tutoring session?
Kelli Fetter 6:48
Yes, I would also add two more things to that list of systematic and explicit. I would also say individualized, and that's one thing that we are doing, both on the reading, spelling end and on the handwriting end is very individualized support, and then also string spaced. And that holistic picture really looking and that, I think, is the key to all of our sessions with children and those that remediation, because our spelling tutors, clearly are doing handwriting in their sessions, and vice versa. Our handwriting tutors are working, helping kiddo kiddos with their spelling list for school. So I think there's a great overlap there. So we have these two quote islands, like you said, specialists of of reading spelling and a funerary but it it comes together so collaboratively, because of that transdisciplinary approach the communication, our tutors literally will text each okay, what are you all working on this week? Or what's the plan for this week? Or so that they can carry over what is happening. We had one of our reading and spelling tutors asked one of our handwriting tutors, okay, I know you all have come such a long way. Why is she still reversing that B and that D? So we it was a perfect educational opportunity for our handwriting tutor to say, Okay, here's what's going on, here's the why, here's how, here's the language that we're using in our session. It's just, I sometimes sit back and watch because I'm really doing the assessments and the leadership, but I sometimes sit back and watch these dynamics play out. And it's magical. And I think the parents, it is so streamlined that the parents don't even realize it's happening, because the communication with them is clear and concise and and direct feedback. It's, it's incredible, and I only hope that the science of writing is catching up to that science of reading, because I think we're getting there, but I think we there's time and energy that needs to continue to be placed in there.
Cheri Dotterer 8:56
It will, it will catch up. As a matter of fact, I I want to say 30, but I could be wrong on my numbers. 30 states have implemented mandatory handwriting instruction as of 2024, we need to go a little bit more because we have a couple more states to incorporate there, but the trend to bring handwriting back as a mandated instruction is coming full circle, and I know, but I want the lead The listeners to know as well, back in 2012 the way they worded the Common Core, it wasn't explicitly put into the terminology, if therefore it was felt like it was something that was innate. We've learned. And one thing that we have learned since that time is no handwriting is not innately learned. It needs to be explicitly, systematically, cumulatively, multi sensory, individualized, and you said strengths based. It needs to be taught to the students at not only print, but cursive as well. And cursive is one of the big things that they're bringing back as a mandate. I had one school in South Carolina. They bought books for second and third grade. They didn't buy them for kindergarten first. And the OTS that had just graduated from my certification program are going in this year to kindergarten, and they are co teaching with the teachers the handwriting program that they purchased for Carson. They're teaching the print version to the younger kids, and it needs to be a trend across the country.
Kelli Fetter 11:10
Yes, agree completely. And that's actually something that, over the past year, handwriting Solutions has really taken on, because obviously we can't see every student out there, one on one, right? That's impossible. And just similar to what your all's mission is, let's reach the teachers too, because the teachers can then reach 2030, students per year that we may not be able to reach. And just this month, as you said, it's back to school season, we have worked with two private schools two hour training to get their teachers up to speed on handwriting research, on instruction in the classroom, what that can look like, and I have never seen Two groups of teachers more excited about handwriting and and eager to learn and get the help and intervene with students when they can't it just it was amazing to see. So teachers want that information too. And I think, like you've said, the it is now a priority, and it has to be a priority. It has to because our literacy is impacted so directly by this direction early on.
Cheri Dotterer 12:31
And as for me, I also feel that math is a place for occupational therapy. Math class needs us as well, and I've been doing a lot of research in the connections to writing and math instruction, and if you go over to tier one interventions, you're going to get to hear more about that connection and in that podcast, but that's not what we're talking about today. But I did want to interject that piece as well that math also needs. It's not just literacy, it is math. Kids don't understand symbols well, as you're at, yeah, so as you're doing your tutoring, include those symbols because they don't understand
Kelli Fetter 13:21
yes. And I'm so glad you brought that up, because we did. And in these teacher trainings, we had mad teachers in there. Of course, it was a class or school wide training, and initially the Mad teachers were like, Why? Why are we here? And I said, Hold on, hold on. And then by the end, they're like, oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. And I said, if they can't write their numbers, if they can't align their numbers, if they can't conceptualize and math is going to be really challenging too. So absolutely, and it also plays into all areas of academics, history class, science class, every area of academics is impacted by our written output. That's how oftentimes where our understanding and intelligence is measured,
Cheri Dotterer 14:18
absolutely how well we communicate in written form, no matter what our age is, how they grade us. Now, have you gotten into this situation? I'm going to talk a little bit about math here just a moment, a little bit longer. Have you come and run into this situation where kids just know the answer and they don't have any idea how they got there. With did your daughter run into that with math or any topic and not really know how to find the answer or get from one point A to point C without going to. Point B, sure.
Kelli Fetter 15:01
So this is so funny that you brought this up. We just went to parent night last night at my daughter's school, and the Mad teacher was talking about this exact idea. And what's great about about this school's approach is they're not teaching one way to get there. I think for a minute, we really got pigeon holed into teaching. You have to do this approach, and you can only do this approach to get to the answer. And she said, but this student may have strengths in this area, and will do this approach to get there. And she very much, is she's not your typical math teacher. She's not doing it all. She's I do have to lay it all out, and that's the way she under understands it. So I think her sentiment was, however we get there, as long as we get there and we understand how to get there, then we all got there. And I just thought that was pretty powerful, because I personally, now, again, I am not a math expert, but I in my just knowing what I know. I think it is just like with all ideas and learning is, is, how do we get there? How do we get that end goal, that outcome, and then, of course, understanding how we got there, acknowledging the strength the individual. That's the piece that I again come back to.
Cheri Dotterer 16:28
Yeah, so many kids do it in their head, and they don't know what they did. They just know it, and that's frustrating for teachers, because how did they figure that out, there is a point in time where it catches up with students, but kids who just know it, they have a number sense that is above average for that child.
Kelli Fetter 16:54
It also makes me think about these kiddos with really Higher, higher IQs and selling. And so their appearance says, What are you talking about? They read great. And then we dig deeper into their phonological awareness, and they don't have any because they have memorized all of the words to sell them again. You got the output there. How did we get there? And they that will only serve you for so long, typically, third, fourth grade, and then things get tricky. So similar concepts, absolutely,
Cheri Dotterer 17:39
6.4% of the population Ha is gifted, probably in reading and in mathematics, and then they have this trouble with writing skills. It's how I got started in this because my daughter is gifted and struggled with spelling, and I was helping a kid at school with learning disability that was also struggling with spelling, and it was like, what's the connection here? And so I talk about that a lot, bring my daughter and my son into a podcast, often, because it was a awakening like you with your daughter. It was this awakening, oh, there is a connection. It all builds on one another. And yeah, that just no state does come to back to hunt them around third, fourth grade. Yeah,
Kelli Fetter 18:35
absolutely. And I think the other piece we can even throw into here is the mental health aspect of what that does when you have a gifted learner, no matter their giftedness, and then they have that struggle again, most often written output. Those are the kids we see. Those are the parents who are calling the help. My kid is so frustrated. My kid is avoiding writing. My kid hates writing all of these things. That's huge red flag for me. Something is going on and there's a discrepancy and their ability, and then their performance, and so which is what for that mental health piece of it too,
Cheri Dotterer 19:19
which is this underlying definition of a specific learning disability, their achievement and their output and their performance are not online. So let's get back to handwriting solutions a little bit closer, and the new people that you've brought on, how has that changed the dynamic of the business?
Kelli Fetter 19:47
Clearly, we had to bring on more tutors just because we had a it's a supply and demand issue. We had more families that were reaching out, specifically time zones, because we did expand to offer our tutoring International. Three so we needed tutors that were available in different time zone. We still all of our handwriting tutors have a background in occupational therapy, and then all of our reading and spelling tutors have a background in education. And so for us, it's really I tell all of the parents that we talk to, I would only hire and train a tutor that I would want to work with my own child. I think that's really important. I come at it from a parent, not a professional, and a parent of, okay, is this engaging? Is this fun? But then also, we provide a really rigorous training for the tutors as well, because, like I said, they don't necessarily teach us about dysgraphia and dyslexia in school, there is an educational component, and I think that team, we have monthly tutor meetings, and we always do an educational piece at each meeting to really provide that ongoing support. And then I'm constantly checking in on each of the students and the tutor team. So it's a very team based approach. And when you say cumulative, that's what makes that to me, that's what I think we're doing. And I think it's also super fun, because they're not all the same. They bring such gifts and such strengths and experiences, and so when your student clicks with a tutor, it's great, but I also tell parents that your student will not click with everyone. So if they get a tutor and it's not clicking, that's okay. That's okay. That doesn't mean that we're not going to progress, that means we're going to find another tutor that they can click with and build that relationship. And you would think virtually like, How can a student build this relationship with the tutor that they've only ever seen through a screen? But it's powerful. We have students who just I had a mom tell me this week, oh my goodness, my student, my child, love to do handwriting class. I'm like, that's wonderful, and it's virtual, and kids are getting excited about it. And I think that speaks volumes to what our team is doing. They bring the science, but they also bring that relationship piece.
Cheri Dotterer 22:22
I don't know if you ever met my friend Cindy, but she brings horses to writing, not writing, but writing. And the kids are absolutely loving writing about horse riding. I love that to be very articulate with that one,
Kelli Fetter 22:43
yes, yes. If I could bring horses to actual physical horses to my sessions, I totally would, growing up in Kentucky, that's yes, yes. But again,
Unknown Speaker 22:54
you can,
Kelli Fetter 22:55
oftentimes it's these middle school boys, right? And you think, Oh my gosh. How are they good? How are you going to engage this middle school boy? He doesn't want to sit at a computer and learn how to write. Guess what we're writing about, video games. And motivates them. And that's beautiful.
Cheri Dotterer 23:18
Anything that will motivate them. What I have one student writing about how to clean his gun, and he was like, Can I do this in school? I said, this is what you need. We're in your home at the moment, and this is what you need to practice writing, and this is motivating you. And he was just about ready to enter middle school. That was the end of his fifth grade, and we did it. We dad. Dad was there and talked about this the step, and then he would practice writing it down. And it's amazing what you can do when you find that niche that the kids bribes.
Kelli Fetter 24:01
And what's really magical about what you said is, Dad was there. Dad was supporting. When we can get parents on board too. That doesn't necessarily mean that the parent has to be there, because there's a lot of our students actually work better when the parent is not hovering, including my daughter. So I say that and laugh, because that's my child. But when you have that parent buy in, that parent carry over, that's when the true magic happens. That's when you're really gonna see faster results.
Cheri Dotterer 24:30
Exactly, exactly. Best forward to high school students. Do you get many 11th and 12th graders?
Kelli Fetter 24:37
We do actually, and we had an influx this year of high school, college students for a number of reasons. A couple of them just truly they wanted to improve their writing. Some was parent driven. One student in particular was in college, and he was planning on working for his dad after college, and his dad said, until you've improved your penmanship, your high. Working for me. So that was motivation for that son. We have a handful of teenagers right now, high school students that are coming to us to learn cursive because they're finally realizing how much of an of a hindrance it is. They can't recursive, they can't write cursive, and it's impacting them. So they're coming to us for that too, which is amazing. Again, students are, I think they are getting it. They under are understanding the value of it. Sure, they're still typing away most of their assignments, but they're understanding the value of it more and more.
Cheri Dotterer 25:37
Yes, they are. And as soon as we hit 52 states that have that as a mandate, it will filter through the next generation of kids. Do you realize that the kids that are graduating from college this year never had cursive instruction? Oh, yeah. Oh,
Kelli Fetter 25:57
I believe it, because they're the kids that are coming to us, or they're the ones who have entered the workforce and and are becoming teachers. I had one in particular ask me the other day. She said, I can't read if my students are writing in cursive, I can't read that. And I said, maybe you need to come take some classes with us too. We're happy to work help our teachers learn cursive as well, because you are spot on. We have a generation of teachers now that don't know
Cheri Dotterer 26:32
we do. We do. Kelly, we're running out of time. Here. Is there anything else that you'd like to share before you share how to get a hold of you.
Kelli Fetter 26:42
No, I think I am just so optimistic about where we're going. When I started this business three and a half years ago, it was a different time. It was a very different time, and so I'm very optimistic as to where literacy is going, as to where handwriting instruction is going. Dysgraphia, we're getting research. We're we have entire websites now that are dedicated to dysgraphia. We have dysgraphia Awareness Day. We so I think we're getting there, and I'm very optimistic to where we're going. And like I said, if I if we can impact more students, we've got our one on one students. If we can impact more students by training their teachers, training therapists, beautiful. It would be really cool to say one day that I worked myself out of a job. That would be amazing, because that's why I do this. It's, yeah, it's a passion. And
Cheri Dotterer 27:51
how do we get a hold of you? How, where do we find handwriting solutions?
Kelli Fetter 27:54
So our website is handwriting solutions. Dot, O, R, G, you can also feel free to email me at K, E, L, I at handwriting solutions, dot, O, R, G, there are a ton of resources on our website, freebies that you can run out and share with your teachers. There are probably over 80 articles at this point, all educational articles to help you, tips, strategies, etc. We're also on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn and which social media you may not see it, even if you follow us, but, but we're there, so just trying to spread the word.
Cheri Dotterer 28:36
Thank you for everything that you're doing. I love how your business has expanded from that first call that we had four or five years ago to where it has grown to today. And it was such a pleasure catching up and finding out more about what's happening. And listeners, remember you were put here for such a time as this. Go be awesome. Go be brilliant and go help your kiddos just transcend their life.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
