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Building Doors is a podcast about Inspiring Leaders who have created their own opportunities and are thought leaders, industry advocates and change makers in their field. This podcast gives you the resources, insights and steps to stop waiting for opportunities and start building your doors for success. Listen to this podcast to gain the resources, career tips and hands-on advice on how you can gain clarity and build doors in your own life and career.
Maybe that's the legacy that I want to leave is everyone on the planet loves themselves. 1% more believes in themselves a little bit more because we are all beautiful and amazing and awesome. We're all different, but I think we're all awesome in our own way.
Introduction (00:15):
Welcome to Building Doors. In this series, you'll develop the skills to build a roadmap for success. Get inspired by those leaders who have come before you and give you the confidence to stop waiting and start building.
Lauren Karan (00:35):
Welcome to the Building Doors podcast, Paula. This is a series where we delve into the extraordinary stories of individuals who have paved their own way to achieving the success, meaning freedom and purpose that they have in their lives today. So I had to get you on the podcast, Paula, because I really felt that you really embodied transformational leadership and growth and innovation for me, and I really wanted to explore and delve into that a bit deeper. I'm going to tell the audience, people listening a little bit more about you and what I know to be great about Paula. Paula Edwards Montfort is a renowned senior executive who in my mind really embodies innovative leadership. The opportunities she has built have been through her innate ability to simplify complex issues and build both her own business and bridges into new markets. Through her prior roles at Tesla Venter and now more recently her own business, she is the founder and c e O of Boban Proprietary Limited, a MedTech startup. (01:38):
Here she successfully found and engaged an academic institution to perform research and then write the artificial intelligence, coding and machine learning required to support Bob's products. At the heart of Paula's work is a genuine passion for fostering growth and transformation. Prior to founding her business, Paula was the managing council for Tesla Motors Australia, where she assisted the energy business achieve outstanding results year on year. Paula's academic accomplishments include a master of laws from University of England, bachelor of Laws, bachelor of Arts from the University of Auckland, and they've served the foundation for her multifaceted career. Her completion of a blockchain course at M I t exemplifies her commitment to continuous learning and staying at the forefront of disruptive technology. Recognized that the Australian lawyer's inaugural in-house leaders list in 2019 and 2020. Paula embodies the fusion of innovation, leadership, and personal growth. Her ability to inspire through actions has not only transformed businesses, but also established her as a key change maker in her industry. Welcome to the Building Doors podcast. Paula, I'm so excited to have you on because I want to learn so much more about what you do.
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (02:51):
Amazing. Lauren,
Lauren Karan (02:53):
You strike me as quite an innovative and disruptive leader. You started in legal, you've got now a med tech business. Tell us about the initial journey and how you decided to start a career in legal and where that's kind of led and grown.
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (03:07):
Yeah, so the backstory way, way back, I suspect I've been watching a little bit too much law and just having outed myself as someone who's over 40, I went home and I said to my parents, I'm going to be a lawyer. And pretty consistently the feedback I got from people was, you are actually not smart enough. It's really hard to get into law school. You're going to have to try really hard and just manage your expectations. Probably not possible for you. And I remember my mom said to me, you can do whatever you want. You just got to work really hard. And so from then on, there just wasn't a plan B for me. I was just going to be a lawyer and I did work hard. It is hard to get into law school. I had to try three times. So in New Zealand where I studied, you apply to get into first year law and then you complete first year lawyer, you have to apply again to get into second year.
(03:56):
Once you're in second year, you're good for the rest of it provided you keep passing. So I did not get in my first try, first year law. So then I tried again. I started my arts degree at that point. And then at the end of my first year uni, I tried again. I got into second year law. I knew I wasn't going to get in because I knew my marks were not going to be what they needed to be. So I basically applied to every law school in New Zealand and I got into Canterbury University. So I moved to cross to complete my law degree. So I did it in the end admission day. Amazing. So much fun. And then I moved to Australia not thinking that there was going to be thousands of law graduates exactly like me who actually qualified in Australia looking for a job. So in hindsight, I don't know quite what I was thinking, but I arrived with my backpack in a grand dreams, which have turned out better than my wildest imagination. So I guess that's a bit of a backstory about how I came to be a lawyer and I got a graduate job and I guess the rest is history.
Lauren Karan(04:57):
Interestingly, I did want to ask you, so you became a lawyer, and I've always wanted to ask someone this, so I'm going to ask, is it similar, I watched Law and Order and all those shows, right? So do you watch it now and go, oh, good tip, or do you kind of go, that is nothing like the law room. I had these images of myself going out there and lawyering like a boss. Is it the same or different?
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (05:20):
Look, no is the short answer. There's a whole bunch of, yeah, I know it's disappointing. There are a whole bunch of professional conduct rules that people have to comply with. The theatrics in the courtroom are absolutely not tolerated particularly in the country. Although as a junior lawyer, I remember in Darwin, one of my partners, he's actually just recently qualified with an o A m, was ordered an o m and he cross examined someone and it was just the most amazing thing I'd ever seen because the technique he used was to ask a question from behind. So he had his back to the person and then he would just keep talking to 'em. And so it's that lack of eye contact is what we'll crave when we are connecting with people. So not having that connection, asking those questions really quite aggressive and confronting direct questions and it was really marvelous to watch. So I really love that and that's an experience that has definitely stuck with me, but that's the closest thing it's ever got to TV for me to be honest.
Lauren Karan (06:15):
Awesome. So tell us a little bit then around your career journey. So you worked for Venter, worked for Tesla, and then ended up founding your own MedTech startup business. How did that come about? Where did that visional or idea come from for you?
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (06:32):
I had been working a lot with the AI engineering team and I am the kind of person who asks why a lot because to I believe to be a fabulous lawyer, you need to understand risk and risk is something a lot of people don't really get. I don't think they think about it, but I do. I'm a bit obsessed with risk. I think about it all of the time. And so to understand risk, you need to understand the product and the context. So I was asking a lot of questions and also using my Garmin watch and I was collecting all of this personal data about myself, which I would screenshot and send to my dad and go, oh dad, look at my amazing session on the bike today. And that was really all I was using it for. And then I just had this kind of moment where I thought all of that data that I'm collecting about myself on Garmin is being used to improve products for other people.
(07:26):
It isn't actually being used to help me and I know that data can be really helpful for me. And then I was reflecting on my own personal growth journey talk therapy over the years and how it's a little bit hit and miss, try this might work, try that might work. And I just realized there must be a place for the data I'm using to be useful for me because human preference is defined by their behavior. So if you can look at my behavior that will tell me what my preference is, that Chen helps me to fast track my personal growth journey. And that was really where Bob and Health was born because I thought it must exist. So I spent weeks searching for this thing that would exist and it didn't exist. So then I thought, right, why? I'm just going to build it because it would be that useful. I believe in it, let's see if we can get it to market. And that's how it was Bomb.
Lauren Karan (08:19):
I love it. Tell me more about Bobin. So what does Bobin do if I add bobin? What could I use bobin for?
Paula Edwards- Moffatt (08:25):
You can't use bobin right now
Lauren Karan (08:27):
When I have Bobin. Yeah,
Paula Edwards-Moffat (08:30):
So actually we're still very much in research phase, but what we are trying to create with Bobin is a platform predominantly for clinicians. If you are a person going to see a clinician immediately before going into your appointment, they can flick up what we are calling data dashboard and they can have a look at certain particular data points that you have done. So for example, if you promised your clinician that would go for a walk four times in the two week period between when you've had appointments and they can see that you've actually walked six times, but it was at midnight. So midnight walking indicates my mental health isn't very good. It doesn't indicate that I'm outside, I'm getting my vitamin D in the sunshine, I'm moving the appropriate hours. It tells me that's a coping mechanism. So instead of having to walk into the clinician's office and the first thing you say is I'm feeling sad, that really starts the whole thing out on a negative, I guess just in a negative way the meeting that you're having.
(09:26):
So if the clinician is able to see that, they know that and they say to you, how are you? Maybe they don't even need to ask you that, or if you don't say I'm sad, if you're not honest about it, then you're lying or you are covering it up to make someone feel good or you're minimizing your feelings. So either way you've got access to objective data, which is really helpful for clinicians to inform treatment and diagnoses. It absolutely is not there to put treatments together or to tell clinicians what they should be doing. It's data to inform clinicians treating decisions. That's the goal.
(10:01):
It's amazing because I've never actually thought around, we collect all this data and it obviously benefits companies a lot of the time, but how data can benefit our own health and our own habits and being a lot more conscious of it and helping clinicians and things like that. I had never considered that. Where did that come from for you? I mean, had you been going through yourself maybe seeing a doctor before and having frustrations? I am fascinated about where that thought process came from, where you're working with tech at Tesla and then you're kind of going, aha, this is what I want to do.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (10:35):
Yeah, the short answer is I don't really know. My personal growth journey and my talk therapy started way back in 2013, as most people do. You kind of go for a little while and then you don't, and then life gets hard and you go back and then you stop. And then as you grow and you learn new skills, you consolidate skills and then you reach out for more help. Typically, when I looked back on that journey at the time, I didn't see anything wrong with it really. I thought it was fine, it is fine, but then I just was thinking about it and the assumptions that you can make are incredibly accurate in my experience, but not always. And I know there's a whole bunch of issues around ethics and bias and not minimizing any of that. Those are serious issues that we need to think very, very carefully about, which is why I think your collaboration partners are so important, which is why we're collaborating with the University of Melbourne one, the best universities in the world.
(11:27):
So we are really cognizant and aware of the pitfalls, privacy, ethics, all of those things we need to be thinking about. But I really saw an opportunity to help people in a way that people had not been helped before using data points because there are so many literally thousands of data points that are being collected about you through your mobile device, through your home tech. It's a whole bunch of stuff we don't even know exists and the researchers are still figuring it out. So it is very, very early days in this whole space of digital phenotyping is its proper name, but it's very early. But I believe in the potential and I have seen what people have been able to create. I mean, look at chat G P T with the generative, everybody's talking about that now. A lot of people are using it. It's fundamentally changed how we do business now.
(12:20):
I mean, I was writing a pitch deck the other day. I'm not a marketing person. I usually speak in facts. So sales speak is a bit foreign to me. I'm sort of learning how to do that a little bit more, but it really has the potential to change the world and I think we need to be careful about how we change the world. And I just thought no one is doing it. There's an opportunity. I really think it would be a benefit. I'm going to give it a crack. If someone asked me that day, well, what if someone steals your idea and takes it and does it? And I said, well, that'd be fabulous because then the product would be in the market and it would be working. It would be achieving what I had hoped it would achieve. So that's amazing. But so far I haven't found anyone who's actually managed to make it work. So we are just going to give it a red hot crack and see where it goes.
Lauren Karan (13:05):
Do you know what I love about that as well is you've almost taken a couple of things that people are quite afraid of or that we hear people having a bit of a fear of and the change that they might have. AI people are scared, is that going to take our jobs? People are scared a little bit of people knowing too much information or who's watching or who knows. And you've brought the two of them together to go, let's change the game here. Let's shift the notion and make it work for you. I'm interested to hear your thoughts around ai, you're doing that work and working with it with your own technology at the moment. What impact do you think it's going to have in the future and what are your kind of overall views on AI in the workforce and how we can use it effectively?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (13:49):
Yeah, so what I know to be true is that life is going to look very different in 2, 3, 4, 5 years, certainly 10 years. How that looks, I have no clue, but I know it will be different. And I think like anything, whether you embrace it or not is a personal choice. Some companies will embrace it through necessity or interest, others will not. They'll be dragged up to and put in a situation where they have to, otherwise they cannot compete anymore. But that process takes time. People's behavior change takes time. So I don't believe it's going to happen overnight. The whole industry is going to change. We're all going to do things differently. I don't believe that to be true, but I think the pace of change is certainly speeding up and I think people are going to struggle with that change because we don't like it.
(14:39):
A lot of people really struggle with pivoting and whole marketing departments might be not required anymore. However, I still believe it doesn't matter how good generative AI is, and it is very good. You still need people because people understand people. So even things like colors, like dark blue is supposed to be really good for mental health. Some brain function. I've worked with really amazing marketing people and they just know you can give them a pitch deck and go, oh, what do you think about this? And they're like, that's terrible for that product. Throw it away and start again. Nothing on the computer is going to tell you that. So I really see we still need people. I think how we use and engage with those people will be different, but those people are still going to be required and then there will be new jobs that are created over time.
(15:27):
So I think we just, everyone will have to flex around what's coming, and I'm certainly very open to it. I think we need to be very careful about how it's coded. We need to be very mindful of what we are doing. But I think if we can get that balance right, then it really has an amazing ability to fundamentally impact for positive how we're actually operating. Because I don't think people realize how much AI has been actually fueling the way that we live already, even via Netflix recommended system, Hey, watch this movie. Oh, amazing. Yeah, I love that movie. Or no, that movie was rubbish. Give me something else. AI has been around for a long time. I'm not overly impressed with the clickbait. All the headlines that I've been seeing around ai, I think it's fueling people's fear to be honest. And I don't love that. So what I do love is balance reporting, which talks about good things and bad things to be careful about, things to embrace, that would be fabulous, but it doesn't get used. So every time I see a headline and someone messages it to me, what do you think about this? I kind of go, Ugh, on the inside a little bit. Why would you do that? Just say something balanced.
(16:37):
It is what it is.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (16:38):
I know about the Netflix thing. Every time I have a Netflix channel, if my husband accidentally dials into mine and he goes, oh, what is this? I was like, you're in my channel. So it's my recommendation. So you're going to hate every show that it suggests for you. Sorry. Yeah,
Lauren Karan (16:50):
Exactly.
Lauren Karan (16:51):
I think the other thing that is interesting is when what you talked about there is the marketing people that just know AI also, rather than people being fearful of it, maybe it's also something worth considering dialing up your human connection. So dialing up what it is about you that makes you human and unique and great about what you do. Do you have that ability to network? Do you have that ability to connect really well with other people, whatever that is, instead of being scared of losing some of that other stuff to ai, but about dialing up and really harnessing the essence of you and how you connect with people and what you've got to offer. The world that is uniquely you is something that I've been talking about with my team a lot more is, Hey, AI is going to come into recruitment. We get it, but there's nothing that can beat that connection you have when you really get someone and you really understand them and what they want. I agree with you. There's opportunity there and there's a lot of fear around that as well coming through. People say, oh, AO is going to take my job, but what about the opportunity too? There's opportunity there.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (17:48):
Yeah, a hundred per cent agree. That's one of the things that we speak about a lot. Humans help humans. AI is a tool. It is a data tool to help humans do their job. It isn't to usurp people's jobs, we don't think. We're certainly not in our little company. I think you're right. I think it's really important and what I'm hoping is it'll kind of bring us back to, and maybe this is a bit naive and optimistic, but bring us back to what we used to be like back in the olden days where everyone had a little village and they helped each other. And maybe it wasn't like that, but in my head it was. So I don't know. I mean I think I a hundred percent agree with you. Human connection is so very important. I feel like we've lost it a little bit and I'm hoping that, yeah, I'm hoping that we just lean into each other and get help from each other and connect more and support each other a little in a different way maybe.
Lauren Karan (18:35):
Yeah, I agree. So interestingly, having a background and an understanding of risk and then dealing with ai, how do those two grapple with each other? Understanding, do you find sometimes juggling the two risk management versus ai? Because ai, there's so much that's uncontrolled that you don't know. How do you balance those two sides of your personality?
Paula Edwards-Moffat 18:54):
Yeah, I don't sleep. No, that was joke. I do sleep. For me, it's always been a matter of why and what if you're constantly asking the why and how becomes pretty obvious after that. But there are a lot of things that we don't know, and if you're aware of things you don't know and then you're constantly trying to figure out the answers to the things that you don't know, you can much better understand the risk. I have very high tolerance for risk, but I need to understand what I'm accepting first. And I understand it when I am across the detail. I mean, I'm sure I'm an absolute pest to the tech people constantly going, well, can we do this and why can't we do that? And I don't understand how this works, but I've always been like that. And that's how p p p. So public private partnership contracts back in the day when I used to do construction, they used to absolutely annoy me because what I found is there's typically the same group of people because PPPs are complex and difficult, challenging.
(19:50):
And so you'd get the same people working on them and one might be for a hospital and then the next one might be for rail. And so we would take the hospital contracts and we would do a file savers and change all the pertinent things and then we would put them over rail. And I would just say, well no, because hospital's rectangle or square, large site static and rail is really long. It's kilometers long, it's a really skinny site and it's totally different. So risk profile, very, very different even just from a site perspective. So those sorts of things used to really frustrate me personally. So that's why I was always asking the why and really challenging the well, why do we have that clause in the contract because it's completely relevant to rail, but very relevant to hospitals that just get rid of it and there'd be another one that we can put in. But it's that really detailed thinking around what actually is the risk and is it an actual risk so going to happen or is it a theoretical risk? Could happen negative 0.2% chance. So I think it's really important to think about risk and really get stuck into the detail and that comes with knowing your subject matter as best.
Lauren Karan (20:58):
I like that you ask why and have that curious mindset. I wanted to talk to you as well about the other side of life and that's family and kids and things like that. So my son's teacher was talking about now how important it's to create inquisitive mind and children ask a lot of questions so they have that. But I wanted to know more around in your family and things like that, you seen somebody inherently curious, how do you foster that with kids as well? How do you foster that curious mindset within your family and grow those values with your children?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (21:26):
Yeah. Do you know what I think it is? It's actually goes back to connection and just talking to them and being interested in their views as they are in the moment. Because as they grow, obviously they learn things and their capacity to process information changes and morphs. And so people talk about meeting someone where they are. I think having children is a perfect example. I've learned a lot about being a people leader from having children and probably everyone does, but you really see the little kids on a journey. And I've always spoken to my kids probably at a level they didn't really understand, but to try and teach them how people make decisions. So I would always talk through, I'm going to do this now and I've thought about this and this and this, and I've decided this is the best outcome for these reasons.
(22:15):
So really talking through the process so that they can hear and start to understand and learn how to do that logical thinking for themselves. For better or worse. At law school, I think brain had a hammer taken to it and I do approach life through the lens of a lawyer, very analytical, very logical, this outcome. And as I said, better or worse that I've transposed that into my family life as well. And so I did do a lot of talking and probably the kids didn't really get it, but as they get older, I know they start to understand and I start to hear being reflected back to me. The things that I've said and the approach that I would take when dealing with life's little problems, they come up all the time. So to me it's about being interested in the kids, interested in what they're saying.
(23:03):
And let's be honest, when you are stressed out of your head and redlining, that is actually hard. It's incredibly difficult to sit down to switch off from work when you've got emails coming in and it's five 30 peak work time. I don't know why everyone decides that needs to be done at five 30 at night, whatever.
And so you're at home, you're trying to be really present, you put your phone on silent, it doesn't matter, they're all still coming in. So it is hard to actually be present all the time. So I don't pretend that I got that right all the time. I definitely don't think I did. It's easier now running my own business to be able to do that. There's less demands from other people. But yeah, I think it's just about being present and interested in what they're saying. I mean, we have some great conversations about quantum physics and we learn together because no one in my family is a quantum physicist expert, but something we're all interested in. And so we talk about experiments and what they mean and how they apply to real life. That's how we do it just through talking and connection.
Lauren Karan (24:06):
I love it. What I found really interesting is that you talked about it takes that journey of having those conversations and then being able to talk about topics together like quantum physics and things like that as well, that interest you as a whole. I think as parents we can often get frustrated with children asking a lot of questions and it's actually a good thing. And I always have to remind myself after the 50th question that this is still a good thing there. I've got an inquisitive mind and it's a good thing. And to keep answering the questions and to keep encouraging that curious mindset and asking why or why something is the way it is.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (24:41):
Yeah, definitely. I just think it's really very important. I don't know that it's encouraged that much at school is my general experience when I was at school. I obviously haven't been to school for many years, but I think it is important that we do that at home. But again, I think it's really important you listen to the answer and you engage with your kids because if you don't, then they just switch off and they go do something else because they know you're not really there and not really present, but it's just a challenge. Yeah,
Lauren Karan (25:06):
That's definitely something that's sort of hit with me really hard around because when you're juggling your own business and things, as you'd know, kicking along your brain is processing even when you're not physically at work. I don't know how, what are some of your tips on how to switch off or have you uncovered anything that helps you disconnect from that work, think to the family time?
(25:27):
Paula Edwards-Moffat
Yeah, I was talking to someone the other day, he's a doctor and he was saying to me one of the things that he encourages people to do is really create that boundary between work and home. And if that's cycling to work. So on the cycle you transition from work into home and then once you get home work's just gone because you've cycled all of the frustration out of it. As a single parent for a really long time that never worked. Although when Otis was small, I did used to ride her to daycare and then I would ride into the office. But it's not practical when you have to drive kids to and from school and you have to drop off and typically you are on the phone also in the car so that you are using your time effectively. I think really the only thing that worked for me was to just be very clear with everyone in the organization, I am offline from six until seven 30.
(26:22):
If you contact me, then fine, but you will not get a reply. So I think the first thing is managing expectations within the organization that you are working for, but there's a trade off of that. You do have to be available after seven 30 and you might have to jump on a call at eight o'clock because that's the expectation, rightly, wrongly. It just is. So that's the first step. And the second step I think is just being very disciplined with yourself and making a choice. I am going to be present and listen. Now I can think about all that other stuff in 90 minutes from now, I will sit down and I will think about it and I will figure it out, but right now I'm going to talk about finger painting and friendship problems and teddy bears and tooth fairies and three little pigs or whatever book it is that we're reading at nighttime. That is what I'm going to be doing. And it is much, much easier said than done because you do still have that. Just everything just kind of rolling through the back of your gray matter is hard. But I just think it's a choice and it is something that took me years to actually get good at and a real attitude shift and a prioritization shift. So actually my family is the most important thing. It is literally 90 minutes. That is all I'm asking for and that is what I'm going to give them.
Lauren Karan (27:41):
I love that. And I think that really hit home for me as well because it's something that I'm still juggling with myself running a business and we are getting calls all times of the day and things like that. And because the work is bleeding over into your mind at night, even though you're kind of presently there, sometimes you're not there. So it's really important to actively be conscious of doing that. And I know we're not going to get it perfect every time, but at least if we're trying, we're going to get better at it every time too.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (28:08):
Yeah, exactly. One of the things I used to do also if I had a big tender on or if I was really under the pump, but deadlines, I would actually say that to my daughter. She used to come into the office with me when I was really busy and she would just sit in a little desk and do whatever she was doing. This is when she was small, and so she knew most of the people I was working with all the time. And so they're like, oh, well, we've got to blah, blah, and I are working on a big deal together. And so for the next two weeks I'm going to be really stressed. I'm going to try my hardest to be really nice, but little things might really annoy me when they don't usually. So I just need you to be a little bit patient with me.
(28:44):
It's only going to be two weeks and then we've got the submission, and then me and you, we are going to go out and we're going to do something awesome. We're going to do high tea for the day or we're going to go to the aquarium, something really fun, but I just need you to understand, mom's going to be really busy for the next two weeks. Okay, mom. But again, talking to 'em about that and actually making it okay, because I remember I worked with someone once and she said, family must come first all the time. You must always put your family first. And when you're a single mom, well anyone, I think that is true. And the overarching value is family must always come first, but you also have to put a roof over their heads and food in their bellies and clothes on their back.
(29:21):
And so sometimes that means you have to work and there's a balance in there, and I don't think I ever put work first, but you just need to do stuff. You just need to get stuff done. And so that's why I started telling my daughter, look, this is what my workload looks like. Because then she can also understand sometimes you do have to work really hard and then there's some downtime and then you go back to business as usual, just normal working, and then things ramp up again, tender coming in, there's a cycle and a flow. But again, it's just about connection. And I'm sure when she was small, she didn't understand what that meant. She just meant mom wasn't really, she was a bit more cranky than normal time she did. She's like, oh, I've got another deal mom. And I'm like, yeah. She's like, okay, well I'll see you in two weeks. I'm like, okay.
Lauren Karan (30:10):
As a single Mum, you sound like an amazing mother, and I hope if no one's ever told you that, I'm sure they have many times and your kids, but I just wanted to tell you that because you can tell there that there's such an intention around the way that you parent your kids and that you make that time for 'em. And that can't be easy. As a single parent, what have the struggles been, I guess as a single parent trying to do, you've had big roles and then founding a business. Tell us about the real struggles. That always real. I want to make sure that people get a real picture for what it's like. So what are some of the challenges you've overcome?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (30:45):
So I'm not a single parent anymore. I was a single parent for about 10 years and we've been of Blend family since then. I think the struggles of being a single parent, a lot of it is societal perception. I can remember once a school teacher telling me that I needed to not work as many hours, and I'm like, well, thanks for the feedback. But that was very upsetting because you already have the expectation and pressure you put on yourself. That mother guilt is actually a thing. So I think at the end of the day, you just have to do what is right for you and your family. And I remember my mom said to me once, well Paula, let's be honest at home, mom probably isn't for you. And I was offended, well, what do you mean mom? And she's like, well, Paula, you love reading and you love engaging with people and you love what you do and you don't really love sitting at home doing finger painting.
(31:41):
And if you had to do that for five years, it would be a real challenge and you wouldn't be very happy. And after I got over my upset and my offended, she's right, she's right. I do love. And it is about following your passion and and then providing for your family as well. So I think getting over the mother guilt is a big challenge. It took me years to be able to do that, and some days I still go, oh, did you do the right thing? And I think the answer is yes, but whatever decision you made in the moment was right for you then. So therefore it is the right thing for you. But beinga mother gives me a challenge. And time management is definitely another challenge. Just being very disciplined with your time, what you're doing during the day, which is really no distractions and working very, very hard.
(32:25):
So being very focused during the day, really minimizing water cooler talk unless there has to be some of it, because otherwise you can't network with people in the organization if you're not networking, people don't know who you are. If they dunno who you are, you don't get promoted. So there's a balance in there as well around how you create the relationships. But I think you're right, it's about being intentional with your time and your actions and really understanding where you want to go in accordance with your personal values. So what actually is important to you? What do you want to achieve, how you best to do that? And then put your plan together and then just follow the plan.
Lauren Karan (33:00):
I feel like there's also, I don't know if you had this, but when I had kids, it's like a rediscovery of myself because I had that same thing. My mom was a stay-at-home mom and had not had a similar conversation. And I was saying, I don't know what you mean, but I was the same. I needed that human connection. So I really resonate with what you see there. And I felt like I didn't want it to make it feel like I didn't enjoy that time with the kids or that I wasn't as effective as a mother, but that my values had changed too. But I still was me, still was me, and I still liked the work that I did and was passionate about the impact that I wanted to have and that it wasn't a bad thing for my kids to see that.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (33:40):
No. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
I think that's a hard part, a journey to go through as well when you become a parent. A lot of people don't talk about, but it is a shift when you're figuring out your new identity as a parent working as well.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (33:51):
Oh yeah, definitely. Because Lou's, hi, I'm Paula. You are like, oh, I'm Blas mom,
Lauren Karan (33:58):
You don't
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Name anymore. It doesn't really matter.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (34:02):
Yeah, yeah. Your kids' parties, no one knows your name, that parents, and that is your life. My life now on the weekends is kids' parties and sports. What'd you do on the weekend? That's basically it. Yep,
Lauren Karan (34:12):
Exactly. Yep.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
So in terms of your business now, where are you on track in terms of launch or what's coming up? Tell me more about what the journey's going to look like because really interested in that for you.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (34:24):
Yeah, so right now what we are doing is a lot of user interviews and the psychologists want to talk to us. We'd love to hear from you, lots of user interviews, just trying to figure out what is useful, what information would you want to see in a data dashboard, how can that help you? How much time will that save you? So what we've done is to figure out that if we can save clinicians an hour of time a day that's five hours a week, over a 48 week year times the number of registered psychologists that we have in Australia at the moment, we can unlock 7.4 million appointments a year.
(35:06):
So we have that as a goal, and that to my mind, really epitomizes do more with less using tech. So what we need to do is to figure out how we can use the data dashboard to save that hour or if that useful for something else, so that is better patient outcomes and then quantify what they are. So at the moment we're talking to clinicians about what would be useful. Then our product development will start. So our M V P product development will be done hopefully the back half of this year, and we're aiming to go into clinical testing beginning of next year. So rough roadmap, so
Lauren Karan (35:42):
Exciting. I can't wait. It sounds amazing. And to think you've just come up with that from through all your experience and things that you've done in your roles you've come up with that ideas is fantastic.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (35:52):
Oh, look, I can't take all the credit for it.
There's a team.
Yeah, well, no, so the University of Melbourne have got a whole team of people who've been researching this literally for years. So the sensor platform that we used was first developed in 2014, so this is, it's not new. The commercialization of it is new. No one has managed to do that successfully yet. So that's what we're going to do. It has been around for a while. I think that's the interesting thing too. Someone of 'em are saying, oh, this whole breakthrough with ai, from my understanding, the breakthrough happened in the fifties and the sixties when the model was developed. It's just taken this long for the data to be crunched to be useful. So now we're thinking, oh, the breakthrough actually, it happened sort of I say 30 years ago, but a lot longer than that. So it's
Lauren Karan (36:36):
Interesting. Yeah. And in your roles as well, you've been a lot more aware of AI from previously, whereas people are going, oh, AI is just, it's always been here. So that's an interesting perspective too. So going through your career journey, who were some of the inspirational leaders that you've worked with right through from construction through to your role with Tesla? Venti is obviously construction, but tell us around some of the inspirational leaders you've worked with and what you took away from working with them.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (37:05):
The people that I have found most inspirational are actually people who are very interested in me. And I think that's because the time and care they take to give you feedback is what is most inspirational for me because it's bespoke for you. They know you inside and out, and they're giving you the benefit of the years of experience. So I think the partner that I was talking to you about before with his amazing cross-examination technique, which was totally brutal, he is fabulous. I learned so much from him as a junior lawyer, I did litigation for the first 10 years of my career, so I was aggressive litigator. So I learned a lot from him. He was technically incredible. He was very commercial, very pragmatic, very client focused. He was fabulous. And then when I moved in in-house, I was at Layton Contractors for a couple of years and just that team was mind blowing at the time that I was there.
(38:06):
I firmly believe they had the best construction lawyers in the country in one team. And you could go to anyone and say, oh, hey look, there's this problem that I've had and these people have been working for like 10, 20, 15 years and they're the very best in their field. And they were lovely, really, really lovely, very highly respected. So I would say the whole team was very inspirational to me. The way they helped each other, I guess coming from private practice into in-house as well, it's a very different environment. Private practice in my experience could be different now, but everyone was very competitive. They wanted the best clients, they wanted the biggest deals. There's a whole bunch of stuff they wanted. And because of my personal situation, sometimes I couldn't compete in that space because I couldn't do the hours in the office that were required to actually complete deals, that's whatever.
(38:55):
But when they came in-house, everyone's really trying to help you and it was a bit more, don't make eye contact, you're going to get that big deal, which is the complete opposite to private practice where people would elbow you in the face to get that deal. So in that whole team was amazing. And I find operations people also, I love them. So once I'd started to move in and around the business and then a head of legal role, really understanding the business and the pain points and really getting to know the senior leaders in the business who've been around for a really long time, like I'm talking old school construction is really call spade spade, stop dicking around. And I love that. I love the matter of fact approach. I love the no fluff, just get straight to the point. If you can't say it in 30 seconds, it's too long or you don't understand it properly. Yeah, we love working in and around people who have that as a value. I guess it's just that really simple, keep it simple, get on with it, start macking around. I really liked it. So yeah, I don't know that there's, there's a few people stand out, but more just teams that I was in and the culture of the team together, I think that I really took inspiration from and things that I try and create now.
Lauren Karan (40:09):
It's interesting you talk about team culture as well. So when people are looking to make changes in their career or looking to join organizations, how important do you think, because you just hit something there that I wanted to talk to you about, how important do you think it is in terms of the culture of the team you're joining and the wealth of knowledge and information? Is that in roles that you've had, has that had a big impact, having that knowledge and expertise and the culture of wanting to share and all that sort of stuff, does that have an impact on what you can achieve?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (40:36):
A hundred percent it does. I firmly believe that. I think there are a number of teams I've been in before that did not have that, and it was really quite awful. But again, it depends on what you're looking for from a personal values perspective, some people like that. They like working themselves, they're not overly interested in being part of a team. I believe it's an emotional maturity journey. As you become a lot more emotionally mature and probably more confident in your own ability, you need to surround yourself with people who know more than you so you can constantly level up. I don't believe that leveling up aspiration should ever stop. I now actively seek out people who I can learn from because what I know is, I dunno everything I know a lot about a little bit. And if you can find other people who know a lot about the bit that you don't know, then you can upskill and together you can actually create more.
(41:28):
So I think personally for me, I think it's really important the culture of the team that you are in, because I'm constantly trying to upskill and achieve more and push boundaries and do stuff that no one else has done, but not everybody wants that. So it's a very personal choice around what lights me up, what kind of environment do I thrive in? Who am I? Do I love sharing or do people irritate me? Do I want to be working in a team and give other people my time and have that as part of my day or would I rather just be in a room with the door shut reading a contract? It just depends on who you are, but that's really knowing who you are and what drives you and what you want to do as well. And then just go find that thing.
Lauren Karan (42:09):
It's interesting. It makes it really tricky and something that they're talking about now with companies is how they can engage different people with different priorities. There's no one employee benefits package that's going to suit everyone. And this is the big aha moment that companies are going to realize soon is everybody wants something different from a workplace. And how do you let them show up with what they're looking for? And that's the challenge moving forward. If you're telling everyone to get back into the office, that could be tricky for some people. Or if you're telling everyone just to work from home again, could be tricky for some people. So it's really interesting times right now with the shift in the workforce.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (42:47):
Oh, absolutely. It's even simple things like everyone wants more money, pretty sure, but companies don't have always the budget to give them. So then as a senior leader, we were always told, go speak to your people, see what they want. And when I refer back on it as a single mom, what did I want a car park because I had to drive my kids to school and sometimes they're sick, so I have to leave. So I am time saved. If I can just pop downstairs into the garage leave, I can go to the dentist, I can do my lunchtime chores, I can go and get a bear costume, whatever it is that I need to do at lunchtime, I can do it because my car's right there. Whereas if you've got someone else who maybe doesn't have kids or doesn't have kids at home and they live just down the street, car park's not important to them.
(43:31):
So you offer them a carpark that's like 10 grand a year or maybe 20, I have no clue, but it's not important to them, so they don't value it. So it's about figuring out who the individual is and what do they need and what can you give them to support them. And that's not a one size fits all. Here's your package, there's five things that we can give you and off you go. Because as I said, some things are really, really important and others are just not important at all. So it's about figuring it out and getting the mix right.
Lauren Karan (43:55):
Absolutely. And I love that you've hit the nail on the head around. It's not always just about money. I mean, everybody always tell you they want more money, but there's other little things like having a car park. I know some people that want to work long hours and they'd like a bit of bonus or overtime for doing that because they don't have to worry about the family thing. They just want to work, work and have more KPIs and bonuses and STIs that they can achieve. So it's interesting because it is different for everyone. And as a parent also car park is life. I agree. You're just not having that extra layer of complexity to add to your day is a winner. Yep,
Paula Edwards-Moffat (44:28):
Absolutely. Time saved as well.
Lauren Karan (44:31):
Absolutely. You've done so much through your legal career and now working on Bobin, what's the impact that you want to leave or the legacy, and there can be work and home as well, but the legacy that you want to leave in the world from your life's work?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (44:45):
Yeah, that's an interesting question. I've been hearing a lot of people talking about legacy recently, and I must say it's not anything I've really thought too much about. What I know about my leadership style from feedback I've got from people before is that I do make an impact. I don't always see it. And I love hearing stories about the feedback that I've had on people. And someone came up to me once and said, oh, this person had just been new in the organization and you came into this meeting room. I was in state, I was a big tender that was going on and I was just me being probably loud and saying hi to everyone. And that behavior gave that person who was new to the organization and the team, the confidence to just go out there and just go talk to people and go, oh, hey, I'm whatever my name is.
(45:32):
And I love that. I love that as an impact. And if that could be my legacy, I would love it. I would love for people to believe in themselves, even 1% more, because I like to go deep with people. I'm not overly interested in a small talk. And what I've figured out over the years and for myself and most people I've spoken to, we all lack a little bit of self-confidence. We all think that we're not as good as everyone else. And so what I would love is if we all love ourselves just 1% more, I think that would make us being nicer to ourselves and then nicer to each other and nicer to the planet. And that might be a little bit simplistic, potentially naive, but I believe that to be true. So yeah, maybe that's the legacy that I want to leave is everyone on the planet loves themselves 1% more believes in themselves a little bit more because we are all beautiful and amazing and awesome. We're all different. It doesn't make it worse. I think we're all awesome in our own way
(46:30):
And we can always take something away. You can always learn something from every single person you speak to.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Definitely
Paula Edwards-Moffat (46:37):
Everyone's got something to offer.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Yes,
Lauren Karan (46:39):
I have this favorite quote, I think it might've even come from my mom. I dunno where it's come from, but you kind of hit it on the head there. People will forget what you said and people will forget what you did, but people will never forget the way you made them feel. And that 1% hits that I feel the same because you can walk away and you might not always get every deal, and you might not always get every client or everything may not just work out the way you want to. But if you just want to make people, as you said, feel that 1% more confident or just feel a little bit happier in their day from the person that makes your coffee through to the people that are in your team could make a huge difference. And gosh, if everyone thought that way, wouldn't it be a better world at the end of the day? Oh hundred
Paula Edwards-Moffat (47:20):
Percent. Absolutely it would. I think there's a real need within every human. We all need to be seen. We all want to be seen and valued and appreciated for who we are. And it's not hard to do that mostly. I mean, like we were speaking about before, when you're at home and you've got stuff going through the back of your gray matter, it's easy to overlook people because you're inside your head, you're doing something else. Multitasking, power, walking through the office, trying to get somewhere on time, probably running late, maybe just me. But it is really important, I think, to stop and acknowledge people because I know how good I feel with someone who I look up to. It's like, oh, hey Paula. And they're like, oh, wow, yeah, hi here, I'm, it's amazing. And as you get older and then more experienced and you go up through the ranks at corporate ranks, and that becomes more important.
And I know some of the leaders that I've had, some of the best leaders are people who just stop. I remember a managing partner at the time during the GFC 2008. We had a managing partner, and he would walk the floors at least once a day and he would speak to you every single employee. I still remember that. And he would ask, what are you doing? What are you working on? And not in note, you're not doing anything. And he was very clear about that there will be no redundancies in our firm during the G F C, but you need to do something, write an article, do some research, self-study, whatever it is, be useful. And I loved that as an approach. And he was interested, what are you working on? How can I help? When do you think it's going to be finished? How are you going? And it's that whole seeing, being seen, and I just love it. And I just don't think it's hard. I think we need to just focus on it.
Lauren Karan (48:59):
I think we also need to slow down to do it as well and not get caught up into the reactionary and transactional as well, where sometimes you're doing business with someone and there's an outcome that you need. Yes. But it's also about stopping, taking a breath, taking a moment, and connecting with that person around where they're at and being interested.
Lauren Karan (49:20):
Absolutely. And curious.
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (49:22):
Yes. Sometimes somebody's asking you a question, you're already thinking of the answer before they finish the question.
(49:29):
Yes,
Lauren Karan (49:29):
I've been guilty of that mainly with my poor husband. But it's good to know and be conscious of that and being interested and curious and stopping to take that time to actually hear what they're,
Paula Edwards-Moffatt (49:42):
Yeah, absolutely. The thing I think about that when they teach you how to active, listen, one of the techniques they teach you is to reflect back what people are saying. And I think some of the things that I have been guilty of in the past is assuming I know what the rest of the question is going to be, and so then I start my active listening response and the person who looks at you like, no, just slow down and really listen. But that helps with the seeing people too, is actually giving them time to formulate what it is actually that they want to say. But I think people are a bit scared of silence too, so you're always constantly trying to fill the silence and then get on with it and keep going on to the next thing. So I think to your point, slowing down, really being okay to take a couple of seconds to respond and then carry on. But I guess it's just all about being really present.
Lauren Karan (50:34):
I love how you talked about sometimes you think you're listening and I did psychology and there was the counseling subject and I didn't do as well as I thought I would because when I paraphrase back what the person had said to me like a listening counselor, that's not what I said. I was like, well, that's what I heard. So I think there is that thing as well of not putting your own lens on it too, and just really listening hard to do, hey.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (50:57):
Oh, it absolutely is. Definitely. Yeah. And that is something that I think is really important as well, because we all see the world through our lens and our perception. And I think if you try to, particularly when something's happened that you're upset about, if you take away your personal feelings about it and your life experiences and you just try and look at it from a really matter of fact or black and white perspective, should I really be upset about that? Or did they actually mean something completely different? And you can ask that person, Hey, I assume this, but potentially you meant something else. Can you talk to me about what it is exactly that you meant? And nine times out of 10, I found people, oh no, not that this, oh, okay, I was going to spend the next two weeks really worried about that. Not lacking you. So great.
Lauren Karan (51:41):
I think you would be a great sounding board for me because I'm more of an emotional thinker and you're very logical. So I feel like, and having that balance and logical bit, my husband is more logical. So often I will go to him with that, okay, I am feeling this. Tell me this. And then deconstruct it. What are the facts? What's the stuff we know versus what's the stuff you are feeling because they're different? And for you, so much of your work and stuff has been in data as well. So your logical mind and your data-driven decisions, I think it comes through with you as a leader. So it's really awesome.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (52:13):
Yeah.
Lauren Karan (52:14):
Look, I could talk to you all day, but I'm also conscious of time because I'm trying to get better at this. This is my own personal growth, Paula, because I really do love talking to interesting people like yourself. So I'm going to move into the rocket round and ask you a few fun questions just to learn a bit more around you. Favorite book,
Paula Edwards-Moffat (52:32):
I'm going to be a complete nerd. I read a lot. The book I have recently finished is called Human Compatible by Stuart Russell, and it is a book about ai. It was written in 2019, so I love it because it's a little bit before the hype, but if anyone's interested in AI and the ethics around what it is and how it's going to work and what a possible solution is, definitely highly recommend human compatible. Stuart Russell. That's
Lauren Karan (52:54):
Amazing. Awesome. I'll read that. And your favorite holiday destination?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (53:00):
Oh, so many. I love Bhutan Whiskey Ski in Queenstown a lot. Queenstown is awesome. It's also New Zealand is home. So those two, I would say.
Lauren Karan (53:09):
And coffee or wine?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (53:10):
Coffee in the morning. Wine in the evening's. Not every day. Coffee every day, though.
Lauren Karan (53:15):
No one can choose between. I love the people that don't choose between coffee and wine, my people, because I need both. But agree. Why not every day that even despite what happened in Covid, it is not a good thing, right? No. And what about cats or dogs?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (53:30):
I have two cats and one dog, but I got to say dogs all day.
Lauren Karan (53:35):
And what is it, what makes you choose dogs over cats? Is it because cats are jerk?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (53:40):
No. Well, cats just don't love me as much. I'm joking. I think it's because you can't do anything with cats. They can't leave the house. Or as a dog, you can take them everywhere. They love to go in the car. They're excited when they see you. Cats are all just like, where's my food?
Lauren Karan (53:52):
I think cat's purpose in life are those cat fail videos that you scroll through and you go, just gives you that lighthearted lift and going, God, cats can be jerks, but crack me up. And what podcast are you listening to right now? What podcasts have you been listening to?
Paula Edwards-Moffat (54:07):
Well, apart from this one, which I've listened to a lot, I listened to the All In Podcast, highly recommend. I think the people on that podcast are amazing. Yeah,
Lauren Karan (54:15):
All in. Okay, awesome. Look, thank you so much for being a guest on the podcast. I have just loved chatting with you, and I often lose track of time when I'm talking with you. So thank you for all the insights. And one key takeaway for me is just being more present with the kids and then just even with my team. So I think you got a lot of insight that you've shared with our listeners. So if you're listening to the podcast as well, what are ways that they can support you, Paula, that people can learn more about you or learn about boppin and Yeah.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (54:44):
Yeah. So heading to our website, which is bobin, B O B B Y n.com au, particularly any psychologists or if you know anyone who might be interested in talking to us around data and AI and how they can see that being useful or not in their practice, we want all views. We really need to understand where the market is sitting. We want our product to be as useful as possible. So anyone who's got any feedback about that, and also as an end user, would you be willing to share your data or not? Just it. We'd love to hear from anyone who has opinions on that would be amazing. Thank you very much, Lauren, for having me on the show. I've really enjoyed speaking with you. It's been my absolute pleasure.
Lauren Karan (55:22):
Yeah, I've loved it. And anyone's listening to this episode, and you do want to get in touch with Paula. I'm happy to also facilitate that contact. You can add her through LinkedIn and get in touch that way. But I actually, because my undergraduate was psychology, I might have a few people listening and a couple that I think may be interested in helping you. So please reach out and I'll put you in touch with Paula and I always say it, but please like, subscribe, rate, review our podcast so more people can build doors and more people can create amazing opportunities and organizations just like Paula. Yeah. Thank you for coming on as a guest.
Paula Edwards-Moffat (55:56):
Amazing. Thank you.
Outro (55:58):
Thanks for listening to Building Doors. If you've got comments or questions, send them to hello@buildingdoors.com au. And remember to subscribe, rate and review. See you next time.