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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
This episode is powered by Celsius. Now, whether you're in the gym or you're on the run, or hey, you're just doing a podcast, grab yourself a can of Celsius and live fit. So this is a shameless pitch for strong New York, September 27th, right at the Glass House on 48th and 12th Avenue. We are throwing the biggest fitness and wellness event this city has ever seen.
Every year it gets bigger and bigger. This year we'll have 5,000 people, 80 plus brands, and you will be there. So make sure you get your tickets@strongnewyork.com. It's that simple. Alright, welcome back to another episode of the Strong New York podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Santucci, and as always, we are powered and sponsored by Celsius.
So grab yourself a can and live fit. Today's episode, we are talking metabolism. Now there there's a lot of, uh, questions that everybody has around diet and nutrition. And this is a topic we cover pretty often here on the, uh, strong New York podcast. But today I'm bringing in a gentleman who knows a little bit more than the average bear about metabolism, ladies and gentlemen.
Without further ado. Sam Miller, Sam. Good New York boy. Thanks man. Appreciate born. Born and raised here in New York City. But you live in North Carolina? Yeah, born in New York. Spent a lot of time. My mom moved to Connecticut when I was younger, so spent a lot of time there. Tri-state area. Mm-hmm. And then, uh, been in North Carolina for a while now.
Today is a hot day in even, yeah, today's hot in New York. Is this hot for new? I don't remember it being this warm when we were growing up. It just seems like a huge shift to me. Well, about three days ago it was freezing here. The weather's kinda wacky recently, but um, you know, do you remember it being so gross and dirty?
Because one of the things that we talk about here on the podcast a lot is how New York has changed and sometimes I feel like it's lost that little bit of charm to it. What do you feel? Certain spots, right? Yeah. So I think what's nice is like they've renovated a lot of the areas around Penn Station.
Mm-hmm. I think it depends where you go. So some stuff's being kind of revitalized, you know, I think there's still the charm, like Central Park, you know, little areas, little pockets. But I think you can also find yourself and you, you're kind of having a WTF Bowman, like what happened here. When I, when I first moved here, I grew up in New Jersey, and when I first moved here, looking across the river, I'm like.
I need to go there. And then when I, when I finally got here, I was like, holy shit, I live in the greatest city in the world. And I'd walk around and there'd be some nights or mornings I'd get up and I'm like, this. It like I'm, I'm where I'm supposed to be. Um, and then sometimes you, you look at some of this new construction that they've done and they made it look beautiful.
Like, I love what they just did to Madison Square Garden. I love what they've done to like, you know, even Times Square. They've changed it up a little bit, even though I hate going there. Um, but then you get people who just fucking ruin it, you know? Mm-hmm. It's like you got this beautiful brand new.
Million, multimillion dollar, if not billion dollar projects and people are shitting on the sidewalk throwing food on the ground. Yeah. It's just fucking annoying. But anyway, enough about New York. Um, moving on, I. People don't understand a lot about the metabolism. I've been in the industry for, I, I like to say since I was 13, 14 years old, I didn't really know a lot.
Obviously at that time, you couldn't follow somebody like you on social media and understand a little bit more. Uh, I had to read magazines, go to libraries, try to figure out like what the hell's going on. And then, like we were talking about before, I think sports science and sports nutrition has come a long way for sure.
What you, you just finished your book. So my book came out in 20 end of 2022, early 23. Okay. Yeah. And. Tell us a little bit about it and Yeah. You know, kind of what you explore in the book and what's Sure, what's some new research that PE that we might have some misconceptions on? For sure. So we'll start just kind of like overview book metabolism, and then we can dive into any specific topics that, you know, care to explore.
So Metabolism Made simple is really just the idea of helping people make sense of nutrition. I was very similar to you. I scoured the magazines, you know, men's Health, but it's like mm-hmm. Nutrition advice for a 45-year-old guy with a beer belly when you're 16 and you're active is like not the best nutrition advice, you know?
So the most important thing to understand is nutrition is a nuanced topic and, you know, context dependent. So depending on how active you are, how you like to train, um, your existing metabolic health, right? So all the choices we've made through our entire life impact our metabolism. But when you're younger.
What you kind of learn growing up, or depending on if you saw your mom diet since you were like 12 years old or mm-hmm. What you were educated about in terms of nutrition and fitness. Most people think of metabolism as like, I have a fast metabolism, or I have a slow metabolism. Mm-hmm. So if you were kind of a leaner, skinny kid, usually people would say, oh, you have a fast metabolism, or You have a slow metabolism, or, oh, you're big boned.
Right. You shop in the husky section for your clothes, if you remember that. But yeah, that was me, I think typically, yeah. Yeah, so when you think about it, really metabolism's just like a stress and energy regulator. Mm-hmm. And energy, meaning, you know, energy intake from food, which obviously when we talk about nutrition, we're thinking in terms of calories and macronutrients.
We think a lot of people have a misconception about it because they think solely in terms of the speed of their metabolism and not its overall health and optimization, which is really what drives considerations related to performance, longevity, and even aesthetics in terms of how you look in the mirror.
So. When I break down metabolism, I usually start with just two really big pillars. We've got the energy side and stress, and then from there, you know, stress obviously impacts things like your recovery, your sleep. And then on the nutrition side, we can then begin to explore energy expenditure, which is like your exercise piece, your non-exercise activity as well.
And then we can also talk about your food choices. And what you're consuming. So that's a really great lens for any conversation, whether it's metabolism, GLP ones, like anything going on in today's modern environment. 'cause you can start to understand how, okay, if I'm controlling energy intake on this side and I'm, you know, paying attention to my stress, those are the things that are within my control that impact my metabolism.
And so in metabolism made simple, it's kind of divided into. First making sense of the science around metabolism and nutrition. And then I go into more of the practical application and tools for managing your metabolic health, both now for your goals, as you know, if you're a younger adult, but then also what to do, you know, in terms of aging and you know, all of those considerations as well.
So you meet somebody who might be a little bit overweight, you said you start as a trainer. Super young. Yeah. Similar to you. I mean, I got started in the industry as basically a teenager. Yeah. So you started that way. And I think the simple way to explain metabolism, like you said, was alright, it's either fast or slow.
Break it down for me, like if you had to explain it to a 5-year-old. Yeah, for sure. What do, what is your metabolism and how do you either make it run more efficient or what can you do to improve its state? At this point. Yeah. So what if I was talking to a 5-year-old? I think in terms of, you know, metabolism is basically an energy regulator, right?
But in your body, when people think about metabolism, it's just a bunch of chemical reactions going on all the time. Very, mm-hmm. Normal. So different enzymatic reactions, different functions, bodily functions that keep you alive and they help you survive. So that's like the real layman's viewpoint, just in terms of thinking of it that way.
I tend to teach. And then if we scale that to more of the health and fitness professional, I teach metabolism more through the lens of adaptive physiology, meaning. How we respond to external stimulus and stressors. Some of those stressors are good, some stimulus is good, like exercise and training intensely.
And then other things could be bad. So for example, um, maybe it's related to your diet or how you live your lifestyle, different, you know, exposures that you have in your given life. So for that five-year-old, I'm teaching it more is just like, Hey, this is just a natural thing that's going in your body all the time, and we get to influence it through the choices that you make.
So if it was a five-year-old, it's like, hey, going on the playground, being active, playing with your friends, that's good for your metabolism, right? Then, you know when you go home and you eat dinner with your parents and you eat certain foods that are, you know, and we could explain, you know, what that is and how that sort of supports your body.
And different foods, depending on what you're eating, are going to impact your metabolism in different ways. Like protein, carbohydrates, fats, and then that lends itself to the conversation of macronutrients and calories, which I think a lot more people are familiar with. And so understanding that really a lot of these topics we understand when we make choices or.
Pick. I think what's happened in the fitness industry is when we speak of nutrition, it's really in terms of diet culture. Mm-hmm. It's not so much actually understanding how to optimize nutrition. We don't really teach people how to think critically about making decisions. We just, even most nutrition books, honestly, are just diet books that have some sort of cookie cutter template at the end, or someone's trying to sell you something, right?
Yeah. So when I wrote Metabolism Made Simple, I wanted it to be like, Hey, there's no. There's no diet to buy at the end of this book. There's no, you know, cookie cutter thing you gotta buy. There's no plan, there's no subscription. Like, I'm just teaching you how to think critically about your body and how to make choices for your nutrition.
So if someone was overweight, there's kind of this, um, you know, two sides to the coin in some ways. Yes. It does look like a bit of an uphill battle because you've accumulated that weight, you've, your body composition has deteriorated over time. But the great thing is, is that if you accept personal responsibility for the fact that your choices got you there, you can actually get yourself out very quickly.
So no one wants to. Nobody wants to do. But when you actually do that, right, let's say you spent 12 years gaining the weight, you probably don't need to spend 12 years losing the weight and improving your metabolic health. You might even see results in 12 months. Which is a pretty fair trade off. Like if you were screwing things up for 12 years and I was like, Hey, 12 months, we can make a pretty big dent in this.
Yeah, yeah. That's cool. But pe the problem is people won't results in 12 hours or 12 weeks. And that's where there's the disconnect between health and fitness industry professionals and people who maybe walk into your average gym. So, so one of the things that we were talking about before was about our parents generation, right?
Yeah. The baby boomers, who, I don't wanna say, I blame them for the, the state of the industry right now, you know? Obviously as time rolls on, we're starting to see a lot of these baby boomers, you know, fall off a little bit. You know, they're dying off at a pretty rapid rate. Right. And I think they're responsible, or at maybe even, it's the generation before them.
They're responsible for the way we look at food, the way we, we've. Simplified things and kinda screwed up the whole food industry, you know, uh, the way we look at diet. You know, one of the things I've always said to my clients was, you know, for a long time they, I always found it very difficult and very hard.
If I got a nutrition plan from a trainer or somebody that I worked with and they're like, follow this diet two tea, eat six egg whites in the morning, eat this Turkey bacon. It just feels so robotic and, you know, you kind of get lost in. The, the nuance of doing this all the time, it's, it's miserable. So what I started doing with my clients was I go here, follow these guidelines.
You know, I don't wanna give you a diet because you hear a diet and you're like, ah, you know, good or bad. You're like, I don't wanna do it. Um, so with guidelines, I've always said here there's this idea of like, eat more protein, less carbohydrates, cut out, you know, sugars and fats. Um. In certain meals, if you're gonna eat your carbs, you know, kind of base it around when you're gonna work out.
Um, and those are the things I did, but. W how do, how do you think we make this a lot easier on people and you know, do you see the younger generations adopting kind of your philosophy on what you're doing? So ideally, yes, but I think we're a far cry from that because of what you explained about our parents' generation.
So we look at their timeframe now. Depending on the listener and their parents' age, right? So for Kenny and I, if we have parents between 70 and 90 years old, really what we're talking about is that post World War II generation, baby boomers, a lot of what was happening is you had all these guys coming back from World War ii, major shifts in the economy.
All of a sudden, we have refrigerators become mainstream household items. Change in food production in terms of, uh, what we have access to inside the grocery store. More packaged foods, more highly palatable, processed foods. The overall industry in terms of food production, obviously shifts. That's, you know, a huge, uh, you know, multi-billion dollar industry.
As it grows, uh, over time. So I think a big part of it, uh, is, is as simple as the fact that like, um, you know, hard times make strong people, you know, strong people make good times, good times make for weak people. And we kind of repeat that cycle. Mm-hmm. I think unfortunately the prosperity that occurred early on in those generations, both in terms of like ease of access, convenience, speed, you know, where people have microwaves, right.
That are. Parents generation was really where that became popular, and also like middle class individuals started to have those things. So there was a shift economically that happened, but then also even in terms of how we approach food, right? Everything, I think even in the diet industry became commoditized.
Commoditized. So I think about like our moms being exposed to Weight Watchers or the South Beach Diet. At, you know, all these things that then repeat in cycles. Obviously you see different names placed on different things. Like there's been a million ways to do low carb, but it's still low carb, or you have higher fat, low carb.
Mm-hmm. So different, um, different ways of restrict, uh, restricting calories and basically trying to diet or losing weight. I don't know that our generation has like fully. Shifted into adopting it. But I do sense, and part of this is we're in that health and fitness industry bubble, so I have to kind of look around and people watch when I come to places like New York and see how people behave and the choices that they make.
And I do think there's a bit of that movement towards, you know, people shopping for single ingredient foods and maybe people looking at, you know, considering things like farmers and, you know, where did this come from? And actually thinking about the food supply chain that maybe we didn't have before.
But I think unfortunately it's been kind of. Interconnected, whether good or bad with the conversation, I think it gets tangled in with the environment, conversation and politics and so it's hard to separate that when we begin to talk about nutrition. So I don't know that our generation has really fully course corrected from where the baby boomers kind of set us on that path.
Yeah. But. I can see why, you know, just zooming out for a second. A lot of the issues that we see in terms of metabolic health, like 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. I think three 88%. Yeah, that's crazy. And then you think about the fact that roughly, I think 25% of Americans are on three or more pharmaceutical drugs, and even I think it's like 50% are on at least one, and then just under 25%, slightly lower percentages on upwards of like five.
So when you think about. You know, the high degrees of lack of metabolic health. When you talk about pharmaceutical drugs. Yeah. What, what do you kind of group in there? So that could be anything like SSRIs, it could be cardiovascular drugs, statin drugs, like for lipid management. Anything that's prescribed from your doctor, I believe is included in that statistic.
So it could be wide ranging blood pressure medication, cardiovascular, lipid. Management. Um, technically if you're getting like a GLP one script, that that would fall in that category. Now, mental health medications, um, you know, all the things that being prescribed to kids in terms of a DH, adhd. Yeah. You know, any, anything can really fall in that category.
I wanna just take a survey in the room. Um, Remy, do you take anything? Are you prescribed anything? No, nothing. Chris, do you take anything? What are you prescribed? Any medications?
I mean, well, those irons like a micronutrient, so, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Well, I take like a Minal so I don't lose my hair. Yeah. Uh, and I'm on TRT. But yeah, aside from that, yeah, I would separate bioidentical hormones from that mainstream kind of western conversation. Okay. Now granted it's still prescribed, but I think it's, I think that's for optimization.
Yeah, it is for like. Essential to life. Right. You know, I think like my dad was on a statin for a long time. My mom takes him. You know, I think that's one of those things where. I was actually having this debate with a client of mine. He was saying that his doctor believes that like most people over the age of 40 should be on a low dose of a statin.
You know, like five milligram pill of statin. I go, really? I go, because my doctor feels like they're, it's like horrible. Like you should never take a statin if you don't need it. But everybody, you know, I went for a blood test not too long ago. I think I, 'cause I, I think I might've ate beforehand. I don't know.
I don't know what happened. But anyway, it said that my LDL levels were at like. 1 57. Yeah, that's actually. So for context, not, so, LDL, you gotta zoom out because there's actually systematic reviews where, um, all cause mortality was lowest at one 30 or one 40. So when you see the Western medical reference range of LDL, typically it's trying to get people under the level of a hundred.
But what's actually more important is looking at a broader view of your metabolic health and more specific lipid markers. So like looking at your lipoprotein a, looking at your A POB looking at. C-reactive protein and fasting insulin is actually gonna be a much better gauge of your long-term metabolic health risk versus just solely LDL.
Now that doesn't mean we're not looking at L-D-L-H-D-L and triglycerides. We can also look at ratios between all of those to kind of factor in your overall risk. But you being a healthy guy who exercises, um, you train also just being on TRT will skew your lipid profile. So when you take testosterone, you may see a slight lowering in your HDL.
Um. What's the difference between the HDL and the L-D-L-H-D-L is high, uh, high density lipoprotein and LDL is low density lipoprotein, and that's also a whole thing in and of itself. Like when people think about LDL, they almost immediately assume. Plaque when in reality it's a lipoprotein. So LDL is actually not necessarily your best indicator anymore compared to what we have now.
So like you'd actually wanna look at like A-P-O-B-L-P, uh L-P-A-C-R-P, because what actually happens is the inflammation, insulin resistance, high blood pressure. When you have those variables confound together, that's when people start to see endothelial dysfunction. Um. Which basically you start the cascade for heart disease.
So without getting too far in the weeds here, when we, when we look at that broader conversation, someone like, for example, do you know your blood pressure? No, no. I mean, off, off the top of your, I year You under, honestly, somebody had it done. Yeah. One 20. I'm, I'm like, pretty much pretty borderline. Yeah.
Yeah. Like one 20 over 80, if not as close as to that as you can. So, so high. LDL. In the presence of high blood pressure and insulin resistance and high A1C. You know tho that's a very different person than Kenny who strength trains and runs. And you may have had a slightly elevated LDL also, if you ate, that's gonna skew your entire, yeah, yeah.
It's gonna skew your insulin sensitivity. It's gonna skew the lipid profile. It'll skew the triglycerides. I'd rather see, okay, where your triglycerides under a hundred. You know, getting those lower. Um, where were you in terms of your CRP? How is your fasting insulin? A1C and fasting glucose? Mm-hmm. And then also looking at your body composition.
Um, because CRP is a marker for inflammation. And so when you combine, uh, highly, what is the CRP? Yeah, C-reactive protein. So it's just. What, uh, the medical field would call an acute phase reaction, ex, excuse me, acute phase reactant. It just means that we can sense there's inflammation in your body. It doesn't tell us where it is specifically.
Mm-hmm. But it's just more of a broader marker of inflammation. It's really good for cardiovascular disease risk, something that I check fairly frequently just based on my family history, on my dad's side, and then also in terms of my mom's health as well. So. I'd rather see the full big, like if you can give me five markers and I also know what your blood pressure is and how active you are in your body composition, that's gonna be a much better.
But like if I had to put my money on someone who's more likely to have an event later in life. Granted, we're gonna take into account your family history and predisposition for things, but the reason that doctor made the statement around most people over 40 taking a low dose of a statins because most people over 40, 88% of American health.
That's right. I felt like that was more of a general. Public type thing. Like not somebody who goes to the gym, you know? And then, yeah, people always talk about, they're like, well, you know, when you're on testosterone, you have to, now I understand that it makes your blood a little bit thicker and it could cause heart attack.
It's hematocrit. Yeah. Goes so, I mean, you're in the fitness space. You like to work out, I'm sure you know plenty of guys who are bodybuilders and stuff. Right. And they're fucking levels. Levels are 1800 and 1900. So when I hear that a guy in their thirties or forties has a fucking heart attack, I'm like, well.
They were probably running a ton of gear and it was not just testosterone. Yeah. So the issue there is, um. Probably taking more than just pharmaceutical compounds for sure. Right. They're taking super physiological doses. They're typically increasing blood pressure as well. And they may not have good cardiovascular fitness.
Yeah. You know, many of them are just lifting and eating a lot of food. Not. And they're not running and Yeah. And if they're not spending time in different seasons of nutrition, you know, a lot of bodybuilders who are just trying to get as big as possible, they're pushing calories very high. You can be a big muscular dude and still have.
Signs of heading towards insulin resistance, right? So especially a bigger dude who's not lean year round, like maybe they have a long eight month off season and they're pushing food super high, and especially if they're eating a lot of junk to be able to get that down. Many bodybuilders have poor gut health.
Poor gut health is also a center of inflammation. So there's, there's reasons why we have to dis, we really do have to distinguish between therapeutic replacement to get into a physiological reference range of testosterone versus someone who's. Blasting outta their mind and also taking potentially hepatotoxic compounds different things that are gonna be, uh, problematic for your liver.
Mm-hmm. Uh, or for your kidneys as well. So very, very different situations and also potential risks long term. Do you know who Sam Ick is? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I wanna say about a year ago when he was draining and planning to go do the Olympia and the Arnold and all this stuff, he was. Obviously on his YouTube and stuff.
I didn't really watch a lot of it. I just would see stuff that people would re post on social media of him taking, you know, eating like shit, taking a ton of gear and eating a ton of shit. And I'm like, eventually that's gonna catch up to him. And people are like, oh, nobody know, you know, he's doing this and he's doing that.
They're people are. Kind of pat him on the back for eating like shit. Now obviously the guy just got his pro card. I mean, he obviously knows what he's doing. He supposedly trained himself through the whole event. Um, but what's your thoughts on kind of younger guys who are looking at somebody like this and eating McDonald's and shit and running a ton of gear?
You know, and they're in the gym all the time. What's your thoughts on, you know, a poor diet alongside Yeah. Running a ton of shit. So first I'll say I understand the premise of getting more calories down for the sake of building muscle and being a younger guy, you can get away with a little bit more.
Yeah. Just 'cause you can get away with it doesn't mean it's optimal. Mm-hmm. But the question is, what is he optimizing for? If he's optimizing to just be, you know, as huge as he can be and to look a certain way, can you manipulate macronutrients to do that? But is that what's best for his longevity? Mm-hmm.
I don't think he's really paying a lot of attention to longevity right now, but as someone who, you know, I had a. Former coach of mine actually passed away in his fifties, who's a bodybuilder. Um, I have, you know, a family history in terms of my own, for me, that's gonna be more important. I'm gonna take that into account.
Mm-hmm. Can you still, uh, train and build muscle, like without eating McDonald's? Sure. Right. But I think part of it too is when we have this social media sensationalism and kind of the, the viral clips and the highlight reel. Mm-hmm. And he's being rewarded for it. Sort of pushes that behavior even further.
Yeah. I think if he was doing more health oriented, health centered bodybuilding, there's definitely be more of an emphasis on lowering levels of inflammation, optimizing his gut health. You know, and people are gonna see me saying this, they're like, well, you're not as Jack to assume Solic, so we don't care what you have to say.
Right. But it's like, that's not what I'm trying to do. Right. It's, I'm trying to optimize for, yeah. I'm trying to live a long, healthy life. And I also have two parents with chronic illness. Like I'm, you know, I'm gonna pass on the McDonald's. Yeah. Um. You know, so well, you have the, you have the Lane Nortons and a lot of these guys talking about, like, they kind of fire back on a lot of the people who say, well, soda's bad for you.
And you know, this isn't. You know, sugar's usually, for him it's diet soda. I think he would agree. Like he's not pushing like regular Coca-Cola and Pepsi products. Yeah. Like what's the, I mean, I feel like, 'cause just as a consumer, I kind of get what they're saying and I know what's going on. I take everything that everybody says with a grain of salt.
I'm, I always. Try to see both sides of the story. Um, but there's a lot of guys who start to confuse you on social media. I have a lot of clients who come to me and they're like, well, this guy said that sugar is not that bad for you and you could eat sugar before and stuff. I say, yes, if you're looking to fuel yourself, if you need quick carbohydrates and you're going to the gym.
Could you do that? Sure. Is that, like you said, optimal? Probably not. Right. You know, um, you know, seed oils is another Yeah. You know, hot topic. Yeah. It's like they're, you're gonna come into contact with it enough in the general public. You don't need to cook at home with it. Yes. You know what I mean? If you're at home use, you know, avocado oil, coconut oil, yeah.
Grass fed butter, whatever. What do you think the long terms effects are on. Continuing to eat sugar, like keeping sugars in your diets. Alcohol. One of the things that I've always struggled with was every once in a while, like last night, I was out with some friends. I had a glass of wine. It's fine. I felt this morning I woke up and I was like, ah, I don't feel fucking a hundred percent right now.
Right. And I definitely know it was a glass of wine, but um, you know, what do you think the long-term effects are on, you know, continuing to eat sugars? Drinking alcohol and a lot of this stuff. I mean, is it what we see our fam, our parents' generation, like you were just telling your dad had a stroke, my dad had a stroke.
My dad never worked out fucking day in his life unless he was in the military. Right. And. You know, ate like dog shit, you know, comes from that generation of when Tasty cakes were introduced and shit like that. Like he would That's what he, little Debbies. Yeah, hostess. He would love that shit. Love it. And um, I, it's so gross.
I don't even think it's around. I don't even see it anywhere. But you're also not shopping in the stores that have that probably. Yeah, sure. But like, even in convenience stores, like right on the corner, like I don't even see that shit anymore. Yeah. Um. So first to go back to kind of the guys you were talking about, I think we have to separate what are people using to market their platform and gain attention.
Between other health and fitness professionals. Mm-hmm. Versus how would they coach someone if they were having a one-to-one conversation? Mm-hmm. Because I think more often than not, people in our industry, they probably agree on 75, 80% maybe depending on your friend group and how you were, how you were raised in the health and fitness space.
Maybe you agree on 90%. So a lot of times, I think we do have more in common, but what gets sensationalized, what gets clicks, right? So the click bait, gimmicky stuff that gets promoted and pushed on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube. That's taking more extreme stances on things. Taking a moderate stance of like, well, if you exercise and you know, nobody, alcohol consumption compared to someone who can do a hundred pushups versus someone who could do zero pushups are two very different things, right?
People don't love to hear that, or at least the social media platforms aren't rewarding that nuance. But you and I both know that if we are having a conversation with a client, the guy who's in the gym four days a week, who can. Do 15 pull-ups at his body, uh, with his body weight, he can, uh, deadlift twice body weight, you know, has certain strength metrics, has good cardiovascular fitness, eats single ingredient whole foods.
Most of the time cooks meals at home with his family. Right. We could paint the picture of two very different individuals. Mm-hmm. Now, individual one is like, Hey, I'm gonna go hang out with my family. I'm gonna have a couple glasses of wine. Right. That's a very different situation than the person who's drinking every day after work and maybe.
Inconsistent with their gym attendance. You haven't seen 'em in three months because they, you know, haven't renewed their sessions or whatever. They've been not focusing on their health and fitness so. I think all of that advice depends on the context of the person. Like my best advice to you is to going, going to depend on the past choices you've made your entire life.
Mm-hmm. Because that's impacted the human that you are today in front of me. And so I think the coaching conversations are different than the content conversations. And the problem is, is people try to take the content and turn it into coaching for themselves. Mm-hmm. That's where we run into issues. So have you ever done any bodybuilding?
Yeah, I competed in physi, uh, men's physique and men's bodybuilding for a while. So one of the things I've always struggled with with my composition was sometimes I feel like even when I'm at pretty lean, I still feel like I'm almost, my gut kind of comes out a little bit like, and I'm pretty lean, but I still feel like, I don't know if it's because my abs are pretty flat, but I have this kind of, my lower half kind of sticks out a little bit.
Is that like gut health issues? Like, because I eat super clean, my diet is fruit. I mean, aside from that muffin that you just saw me fucking starving today, um, I'm like, I'm a fruit all day. Fruit, coffee, steak, yeah. Is like my go-to ideal diet. Um, but like, I just feel like sometimes it's, and I don't feel bloated.
Like everybody's like, oh, do you feel bloated? Take a, you know, some, uh, prebiotic or probiotic. And I'm like, I don't feel bloated, but it's just like. My belly kind of comes out a little bit. Yeah, so it depends on distension. If you have like early fullness at meals, you could have lower stomach acid. So if you're like training a lot, consume a fair amount of caffeine.
Um, it's pretty common in society for people to have lower stomach acid levels. So it is possible's the coffee. No, I'm not blaming the coffee. I'm just saying you would, if you are someone who likes to have caffeine, you also train pretty intensely. What I tend to see in athletes is they may have lower stomach acid levels and so addressing that, um, assuming, you know, you've dialed in things from a nutrition perspective.
'cause it's also po possible too, that that's just the last place you lose body fat, like mm-hmm. Like if I go on a diet and you go on a diet and we're even remotely similar body fat percentages. Mm-hmm. We're not all losing. Fat from the same place at the same time. You know, and I've even had it be different for individuals on different diets.
Like when I used to diet for physique and bodybuilding where I would lose body fat first or last, uh, is different like when I was younger. Used to be a lot harder for my legs to get lean. Now, as an older guy, well I'm not that old, but now, you know, as I've trained for a while, and just in terms of my body composition, my legs are a little bit leaner most of the year, but for me it'd probably be my lower back.
Whereas you're saying it's your abs. Yeah. So it could be, well, no, I definitely have the lower back feet. Yeah. So it could be where it, like where are you losing body fat first? Mm-hmm. Because we're not really. Controlling that. Like in terms of if you are just going into a calorie deficit and you're training regularly trying to optimize your macronutrients, you, you know, you're on TRT, you're optimized from a hormonal perspective, it's possible that it would just take you longer in that deficit to begin losing body fat there.
Now if it did feel like bloating or early fullness after meals, or you wake up and even first thing in the morning with an empty stomach, you feel like you've got something going on there, that's where we may consider some type of gut health intervention. Yeah. And. Even two, you can eat. Fruit, but poten, uh, depending on the carbohydrate source, some fruits are gonna be higher in, uh, FODMAPs.
So it may feed, like if you did have any sort of gut overgrowths, uh, those fermentable carbohydrates can tend to feed that gut bacteria. So what are some fruits that I should potentially stay away from? So I would wanna look at like how you're, what you're eating right now and almost like go through a food log and shift just towards like lower FODMAP stuff.
So berries are usually. Usually good for that, but I'm a berries, pineapple watermelon. Okay. Yeah. So that shouldn't really be, yeah. I'm wondering grapes too. I eat a lot of grapes. You eat a lot of grapes. Um, but you're not feeling, do you, are you feeling dis anything? I, I eat 'em till I'm kind of full on 'em.
And you know what's so funny? I've been doing that for probably what, two years now, Chris? Yeah. And. I just saw that, um, Mark Bell has been like pushing this whole, like, eat as much fruit as you want till like 12, one o'clock and then you can start eating proteins and stuff. And I was like, oh, that's interesting.
I was like, I just kind of been doing that already, but that's what I wanna have in the morning. I wanna have some carbs, you know, some fruit because it just kind of, it's easier on my stomach and stuff. And then when I could sit down and have a meal, I'll have some steak or chicken or something along that.
Yeah. I think it's possible that part of it is if you're just eating a lot to support training that mm-hmm. Maybe you would just need to be at a lower body fat level to see like the level of ab definition that you're looking for. Mm-hmm. Um, if it is something gut related, you know, we'd probably want to go through a little bit more of a deep dive.
Even if too, I'd be curious like, are you pairing protein with any of that fruit? Are you having any, um, like protein shakes or anything? Are you having any. No way. Being, most of the time I'll eat fruit with the steak and stuff when I have that. Okay. Um, but in the morning I'll kind of just have it on its own.
Okay. So the, but I'll have like fruit and coffee. Okay. Like, I've already had three coffees. Okay. It's 12 o'clock. Yeah. I would definitely be curious to, um, have you play around with like supplementing a little bit or even you, you can do a number of things. You can take, uh. HCL supplement or use, uh, apple cider vinegar can support that acidity as well.
Um, brolin in pineapple can also help you digest that red meat too. So if you like, if you do like pineapple pairing, that if you're going to have a larger steak meal could be good brolin's, uh, really great from the perspective of digestion, but also even good for your joints too. So that's a, a great reason to have some pineapple.
And where, where could I get that pineapple? Yeah. Oh, it's in pineapple. It's in pineapple, yeah. Yeah, it's in pineapple. So it sounds like a weird combination. Supple. You could, but if you're eating pie, I mean, I wouldn't worry about that just yet. I would. Okay. I would focus more on that and then just. Uh, depending on your caffeine intake, obviously you got a big trip coming up, but then when you come back, I'd kind of see how things are landing in terms of food and caffeine intake.
My hunch is, is that because you are eating pretty liberally in terms of the fruit and then also when you are actually having the protein, it could be a matter of just like. Styling in some of the portions on those. Um, what is, I'm, I'm eating too much. I, I don't know that you're eating too much 'cause I really don't see the size of the meals.
Right. Yeah. Yeah. So I have no idea. It is very hard to overeat on those foods. Yeah. It's very, very unlikely. But because I have, that's how I felt. Right. It was like, I could probably eat a ton of this and I'm gonna just eat till I'm full and be fine. Yeah. Eating til satiety is good. Usually I recommend people, uh, pair like a protein with a carb typically.
Um. Now you could still go a little bit lower, save the stake for later if you wanted to, but based on what you said about your caffeine, your stress training, all of that, I think it's possible stomach acid, a aspect of this, and I would still try a little bit of food combining, I think. From what I know about Mark having podcasted with him before, been out there, talked to the guys, he just likes to rotate different diets himself a challenge.
So he will do like a no fat diet. He will do a no carb diet. He'll do a just protein 'cause he is this same exact dude a couple years ago was like, Hey, we protein leverage. We're just gonna eat all our protein in the morning. Now he's saying eat all fruit in the morning. Yeah, he's always later some That's just his way of.
So Mark's history, being a bigger guy, I think he likes to give himself those many challenges and it's something to focus on as a way to moderate his intake. Mm-hmm. And it works for him. That doesn't mean everybody needs to follow that advice. Yeah. But I do think, generally speaking, those food groups are great choices for most Americans because so many people are overweight.
So I don't want people to think that I'm, I eat a ton of fruit and I eat a lot of, uh, red meat as well. Usually like grass fed beef, steak, et cetera. So I'm generally in favor of those foods. Mm-hmm. I just haven't spent. If I could be a fly on the wall and spend, you know, 24, 48 hours with you and see, okay, this is what you're eating with this, this is how much, this is how you feel afterwards, this is how you're training.
That's what would give me the details I need to be like, okay, cool, this is what we're doing. Mm-hmm. Uh, versus just like grabbing a coffee and sitting down for podcasts. Is there another way to get to become a bodybuilder or get into that bodybuilding shape? Without having to follow that super strict, you know, little bit of carbs, rice, chicken, super lean.
I mean, can people get pretty lean without having to follow a very strict eye like that? It's possible. I think if you are, if you have a good metabolism, so basically thyroid function optimized, if you're, you know, you're probably gonna be on either bioidentical hormone replacement or if you are taking peds.
I think it also depends on after your last diet, when you were lean, if you were able to reverse diet, get your maintenance calories a little bit higher. 'cause if you keep your maintenance calories higher, you're gonna be able to diet on higher calories versus if you maintain your weight. So maintenance calories are like a moving target.
People think of it as like a single, um. Like, almost like a game of darts where you're just gonna throw it and like, that's exactly what I need to maintain my weight. Really? It moves though, depending on your non-exercise, physical activity, thermic effective food. So even eating more protein, right, that we burn calories.
Mm-hmm. Digestion and absorption of that. So it's more of a sliding scale or a window. And so if I'm able to adjust my maintenance calories through my training, my non-exercise, physical activity, um, all of those things help. To basically shift that total daily energy expenditure. Then when I am dieting, there are things that I can do to prevent having quite as much metabolic adaptation or slowdown.
That's a normal thing that's gonna happen when you restrict calories. Mm-hmm. It's just a transient shift in your metabolism. But I. If we diet intelligently, we can prevent that. Now, the reason so many people have to diet on super low calories to get in shape is largely because they've restricted calories before.
They haven't spent time building up those maintenance calories. And then when they try to get lean, they have to be super restrictive because of that. Or they just don't have as much muscle as they think they do. Right? So building muscle. Training, having, you know, good high daily step counts. I'm sure you're in New York, you walk around a lot, you get a ton of steps in.
I'm at 5,000 already. Yeah. So if you're keeping that non-exercise, physical activity high, you're training that I've noticed helps people get leaner. Um, even just like post meal walks, short little. I love that movement. Snacks. Yeah. That can keep people a lot leaner, helps them manage your insulin sensitivity.
Those are great. So I would say. Now if I were to diet for show, I don't really have a desire to, but something I would do differently than before is, it used to be the conventional approach is do a bunch of cardio in the morning and then you'd like train in the afternoon, split those up, um, not much discussion of what you're doing during the day you're working and stuff like that.
I would really place a greater emphasis on moving after meals. Mm-hmm. Even if it's just light movement, going for a walk Yeah. Can be great and. Bringing that non-exercise physical activity up versus just solely relying on conventional cardio? Yeah, I, uh, I tell people that about this pretty often. 'cause in re in the last couple years I've been competing in Juujitsu.
Every once in a while I'll have to cut a little bit of weight. Um, and what I'll do the night before a competition, or even two days before a competition, I'll kind of cut out carbohydrates. You know, I've had to lose 5, 6, 7 pounds before. I'll cut out carbs for like two, three days, and then the night before I'll have like a pretty lean steak and I think because of the eats, right?
Mm. Like my body's gotta break down all that protein. I always wake up lighter the next morning, you know? So I'll eat a steak around like 7, 8, 9 o'clock at night, try to get a good night's sleep, and then the next morning I wake up and I'm like four pounds lighter. Yeah. So, well you're also, I mean. I'd say, obviously someone with a fair amount of muscle, a little bit taller, dude, you know, if you've been consuming a certain amount of carbs, then you stop.
You know, your body normally stores water with those carbohydrate. Mm-hmm. When you bring that into the system, so if you're dropping carbs entirely, you are gonna lose some water weight plus the food volume of not eating that. Right? Yeah. So that's gonna play into it. Overall, what I look at in terms of protein and that thermic effective feeding is just.
Ideally, someone's prioritizing protein every day. Now you've been in the fitness industry since you're a teenager, so protein's not a problem for you. But if we had a gen pop person off the street, or a client who first walks into, you know, your gym, they need to begin prioritizing that protein, right? So for you, you've probably got that down because.
You're eating high protein and steak and things like that all the time that are gonna keep the thermic effect of feeding higher mm-hmm. Than someone who's not. So I'm gonna throw out a couple words and I want you to, on a scale of one to 10, gimme what you think you know. 10 obviously being the highest, one being the lowest.
Okay, cool. Um, so GLP ones seven. I would say for someone who's overweight, obese, if that's gonna be the thing where you've tried dieting before and this is going to help you. You know, moderate your food intake. Yeah. If you're able to get the weight off, because being morbidly obese is. Incredibly dangerous.
So even though GLP ones do have some side effects, I think for that style person, the reason I gave it a seven is I think it can be abused. I think there's people where it's like, Sally needs to lose five to seven pounds and she's taking Ozempic. I don't think that's an appropriate use case for it, but if you're someone who has a lot of weight to lose, you've struggled to be able to manage your hunger and cravings, and if this is the thing that's gonna help you stick with it and see some positive results, then um.
Who am I to, to judge you for that, but I think the context is very important in terms of who's using it at any age, right? Like you could be, I don't love pushing prescriptions in a pediatric setting. No. Yeah. So not kids. Not for kids, but for like adults over the age of, for adults. And I would say I like to see that someone's at least tried.
Two. Okay, here's my thing, it's a seven if you're also doing something for training and nutrition. 'cause if you just take a GLP one and you're not doing any type of strength training, that's, that's a bad idea. Also, it can be, that's our soundbite right there. Yeah. You need to also be very mindful of your gut health in terms of your gut motility because if it slows that down, um, you may run into some issues in terms of gut dysbiosis as well.
So keep an eye on your gut health. Make sure your strength training and please. You know, if you're gonna do it, I think it's a great time to also have a, a training and nutrition coach. Mm-hmm. Because you need the lifestyle factors. A hundred percent. I had a client who is a lazy piece of shit, and as soon as he started taking, I go, listen, I'm telling you the most important thing you do if you start taking, you know.
Any of these glp, you have to stick with the training. You have to train a little bit more than you normally like to, which was once, maybe twice a week. And he's like, no, no, no. I'm losing weight. I'm losing weight. I feel great. He's bigger than he is ever been, you know, and it's, it's so hard because it's not a gateway drug to go and do whatever the fuck you want.
It's to. Push you. Yeah. You've gotta learn to cement the right behaviors. Yeah. Yeah. It can help with the heavy lift of getting started. Yeah. If you get that feed forward cycle. Yeah. I'm trying to take you off the hamster wheel of obesity and move you onto this positive, you know, treadmill of a healthy lifestyle.
Yeah. If you don't do that, we're in trouble. Uh, green powders 4.5. Really? Yeah. I, I'm surprised you gave at that. Uh, so there are some. I would say a lot of them are bad, but the, occasionally there are certain products where I've seen friends get some good results, whether it's in terms of allergies, um, just improvement in different symptoms with a proper dosage, which would be several grams of like a spirulina or something like that.
I personally am not. Currently taking a greens powder. I have no affiliation with them. I think a lot of brands are just proprietary blends that don't have efficacious dosages of things. Some don't even, uh, disclose, you know, all of their ingredients, vitamins and minerals. Some are even high in lead, which is a bad idea to be taking that certain products have tested very high and heavy metals.
So for that reason, I'm, I'm putting it under a five, but there are a couple brands that take a different approach there. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't remember exact ones off the top of my head, so I'm not trying to throw everybody under the bus. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Probably four, four and a half, uh, pre and probiotics in the right setting.
I do think there's evidence for probiotics, especially certain ones after you've taken antibiotics. So, uh, I'll give it an eight. Mm-hmm. But it's gotta be for the right person and don't just like buy a random ones off the counter. Right. Do your research first. Hormone replacement therapy. Nine. Yeah. Really?
Yeah. Great. The only reason it's not a 10 is probably 'cause some people will abuse it or they're not doing it properly, or because of the clinics that don't have the appropriate education and they do cookie cutter, HRT protocols. Mm-hmm. I don't like that. But bioidentical hormones themselves can be very powerful and change quality of life for a lot of individuals.
Microdosing, uh. Psilocybin or anything. I was like, what are we microdosing? I was like, he's on a mega dose of caffeine, so I know it's not gonna be caffeine is a 10 for Kenny. If we were to put that on the rating scale? Um, I think it depends on the person, but, um, yeah, I don't know if I'm, like, I'm not an expert on those things, so I wouldn't, I would save the rating for someone who's like.
More versed in that, but, um, have you ever tried it? Oh, I, yeah. I've had different types of mushrooms and, and things like that. And micro, like different nootropics and Yeah. And things I love tropics. Yeah, I like nootropics. So I definitely rate those somewhere between seven and a 10, depending on the, the product.
And then. There's definitely some positive emerging research on different types of mushrooms, but I'm not like the, I'm not your, your mushroom prodigy bec, just to cut out something. I'm not the mushroom bear. I'm just not your average bear. So I, no, I, I like, uh, there's a company called, uh, everyday Dose.
Okay, cool. And it's a mushroom coffee. Okay. And I supplement that sometimes instead of having the caffeine, I like the, you know, it tastes very close to coffee. It's, it's earthy. Yeah. It's like, yeah. It's got a good coffee taste to it. So I, I like that a lot. And I'll cut outside. Yeah, I do. Like, I think I did a whole podcast on mushrooms one time.
It's like a, a great, uh, potential use case for different things like Lion's mane can be really good. Yeah. Love Mishi Chaga. I, it definitely centers me a little bit, you know, I feel like my brain's kind of, you know, sometimes a little foggy and that kind of sets me off on the right pace. Yeah, for sure.
Yeah. Lions main's good for BDNF increases, brain drive, neurotropic factor. Do you know any nootropics that you like? Like are there any brands that you really like or? No. So a lot of times I like to, um. Kind of create my own, depending on what I, what I need. Mm-hmm. Or if I'm pairing it with caffeine, even though it's technically not usually viewed as a neutropic.
I like theanine with caffeine is a great combination. Yeah. Um, I like different versions of choline, so whether CDB choline or Alpha G pc mm-hmm. Can be great. Um. People who struggle with memory sometimes really benefit from bacopa. That can be a helpful one. Different types of, uh, ginseng can sometimes have a neutropic effect for some individuals, but usually I'm looking for like some type of choline product in there, potentially like a lion's mane or a mushroom.
If I'm going to have stimulants, I like to have a little bit of thine in there, probably 200 milligrams or so of theanine, and then I'll mix in other things occasionally. So if I'm just looking at like general fatigue mitigation, even though they're not. Typically considered nootropics. I do like creatine and rhodiola.
Both have evidence to help with fatigue and especially just helping that brain function overall. So lots of different directions you can go there, but maybe, you know, start, you may have like a stimulant that you use periodically, your coffee or you know, if, uh, energy drink, like if you have it. But I like to pair that with the, and then I'll add some different peripheral ingredients depending on what I'm going for.
Well Sam, I think that's all the time we have. 'cause you have to go over to see the Yankees and your mom. I do. Yeah. Which seems a great family day. Yeah, it's hot as balls out there. I know. So make sure you prepare for that. Crossed. Thank you so much for coming on. Uh, where could everybody find you? Where could everybody buy the book?
Yeah, for sure. So I am Sam Miller Science on Most platforms. That's my Instagram. Um. Metabolism Made Simple is the name of the book. If you go to my profile, you should be able to find that or go to metabolism made simple.com. As far as if you're a health and fitness professional, wanna learn more about nutrition, metabolism, hormones, a lot of the things we discussed today, gut health.
Mm-hmm. Uh, head over to metabolism school.com is where you can learn about all of that. And, uh, my podcast as well. So, lots of different places to connect. As somebody who's in the industry, I understand a, um. A great deal more than the average person about it. Um, you've definitely kind of cleaned up a lot of the questions and misconceptions.
Thanks man, that I've had and I hope it helped everybody out there. Guys, as always, like, subscribe, share with a friend. Um, thank you for joining us here on the Strong New York podcast and also. Christy, you didn't even have to remind me. Tickets are on sale right now for Strong New York. 2029. 2029. How am I saying?
Buy, buy 'em for the next four years before we sell out. Yeah, please. Yeah. Presale. Strong New York, 2025, September 27th at the Glass House on 40th and 12th Avenue. Do not miss New York City's biggest fitness and wellness event. We have 50 plus speakers and presenters. We have 80 plus brands and uh, companies that are gonna be, uh, showcasing their products there.
And also 5,000 fitness enthusiasts who are ready to have a great time workout, hang out. We're gonna be doing runs. We have everything you could possibly want under the sun right here in the big apple. So do not forget to get your tickets and uh, you know, come with a friend. Do we have a friend's? Like, kind of like a buddy Pass.
Chris, I think we should run like a buddy Pass special. Yeah, that's gotta be the next thing. Hopefully we'll see Sam Miller there. Uh, we'll try to get him up to, uh, strong New York as well as anybody else. Please let us know. We'd love to have you guys there. Thank you all. See you soon.