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The Idol Horse team tackles the biggest events on the world horse racing calendar. Expect to hear interviews from the biggest names in the sport and insight, breaking news and forthright opinion from the Idol Horse team.
Idol Horse (00:01.516)
Welcome to the Idle Horse Podcast. I'm Andrew Lejeune and today's guest is O'Sheen Murphy, widely regarded as one of the world's best jockeys. He joins me after wrapping up a fourth British Champions Jockey title, though very much in demand still across Europe, Asia and North America. To touch on the season just gone and how you balance those commitments with guidelines around the world. The Breeders' Cup meeting coming up this weekend, his rides plus his thoughts on City of Troy and his Breeders' Cup Classic bid.
and his worst moment on the race course, involved recent Cox plate heroin via Cistina. Enjoy. Oisin, welcome to the Idle Horse podcast. Thanks for your time. always say thanks for your time, but I probably mean this a little bit more this time around with you because you're joining us from the airport. Busy weekend for you. Yeah, it is. But I wouldn't have it any other way, Andrew. It was a good day, successful day. I had a winner at Longchamp or at Saint-Cloud.
and I'm off to America tomorrow, so we'll keep rolling. Yeah, we'll come back to that in a second actually, this afternoon's winner, but just firstly, congratulations on another successful season, British champion Jockey as well, fourth time, job done then? Yeah, thanks Andrew. I worked very hard from start to finish, I suppose, but to ride winners almost every day, unfortunately it paid off. It was a successful season. I rode.
taught at a decent level. I had a few quiet weeks as well but I put a fair bit of effort into it. Everyone's settled into that routine now if it's the championship starting on guineas weekend and ending on on champions day. It seems fitting really from the outside looking in but everyone in the weighing room's happy with how that sits now? Yeah I think so because it covers the bulk of our races. It covers all the group ones in Britain and apart from the
Virtue and Pre-Charity that was run on Saturday. It's a pretty long time and I suppose there's no doubt the winner of the Jockey Championship under this new format would be the same winner where it would be from Doncaster to Doncaster. So for your listeners who may not be familiar with what I'm saying, the previous championship season ran from the end of March until the beginning of November, whereas the new format is slightly shorter. from the first weekend in May.
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Kipko Guineas weekend to Kipko British Champions Day on the third, normally the third Saturday in October. Are you a big one for setting targets? Like at the start of the season is that you set goals of what you want to achieve and how you're going to achieve them? Yeah, I had a clear objective and that was to win the championship and I kind of led throughout, maybe not the first week but from then on.
and it was very important to me. had John Reed, I had a really good chat with him on a sister podcast, The Race, and he spoke about you a little bit as well because he would have been your trainer or your mentor. Yeah, he was my jockey coach. Jockey coach in the early days. And can't remember his exact words, but I'm going to say confidence. He said you found you a very confident young man when you first joined in Kenya Under His Watchful Eye.
Yeah, I certainly came across that way. I'm not sure deep down I was, but he was a wonderful rider and a great mentor. He was fantastic at taking all the apprentices at Andrew Bowden. So at my apprenticeship there was Kieran Schumach, Group 1 winning jockey, Dan Musket, Group 1 winning jockey, Rob Hornby, Group 1 winning jockey. I don't want to leave anyone out, but there were 10 of us.
and I think seven went on to be fully fledged riders and John was our coach for each one of us so I mean he certainly is good at his job. I suppose my point being going back to that, were you the same back then in terms of this is the goal, this is what I want to achieve? I wanted to be champion apprentice really badly and Andrew actually stopped me from being champion apprentice my first year because
He wanted to give Tom Brown another boy in the yard every chance. He was a bit older than me. And yeah, the second year then it was pretty smooth sailing. But I was in no doubt that the transition from apprentice to being a fully fledged jockey was not going to be seamless. And I was going to need some luck and a lot of hard work.
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In terms of how you set yourself up now, so it's four championships, think obviously you want that, you know, want to be riding in the big races, you are riding in the big races as well, you're, you know, in demand jockey, but how do you sort of ride the balance between quality and quantity throughout the season, given the so many overseas opportunities as well to take on board? So last year I wasn't in a position to win the jockey's championship from
I taught before Goodwood and then I had, well well before Goodwood, maybe even the end of June, only two months in. So I went on a few trips to the US and they were fruitful for me. I probably should have won, I won the Belmont Oaks but I should have won the Belmont Derby as well. And this year I maybe missed out on some of those foreign trips because I knew that going there might mean losing.
six or seven winners in the Jockeys Championship. So I don't regret that decision that was made. I think it was crucial, although I ended up winning the championship a long way, over 50 winners in July and August time. I needed to keep the momentum going. And just touching on some of the highlights from you.
Actually, I don't think it was a championship year, I was going to mention Roaring Lion, but I think you were champion there, was 2018 wasn't it? was before you were champion Jockey. I mean he very much falls into the quality side, the discussion, he'd be one of the best wouldn't he, you've ridden? Yeah, him and Ben Battle are the two most talented horses, they had an incredible will to win. mean, think Ben Battle came back from so many setbacks and he did it for so long.
And on his best day he was just outstanding. And Roaring Lion had an incredible three year old year. He was very special. I suppose just touching on 2018 Andrew, I was young and all of a sudden I was being selected to ride many chance horses in group one races all over the world.
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I didn't quite realise how lucky I was at that time because I worked very hard in 2016, 2017 to even ride in Group 1s and I finally rode my first Group 1 winners the back end of 2017 on a claim in Vlaan Mee. But then the following year these were almost put on a plate for me and yeah I was very fortunate that year, very fortunate. One of the things I think that made that year as well
was the great rivalry you had with Saxon Warrior. I suppose it even went back to the two-year-old season at the back end they met, didn't they? But the Guineas, then the Eclipse, and then at Leppardstown as well. That was a great rivalry between the two horses. Yeah, it was. And I suppose the most breathtaking performance I ever partnered, rowing line, was the Juddman International at York.
that was a very strong field and he put them to the sword like so many group-born horses in that race. Fembattle, Poets, Word, Saxon Warrior, God I don't know every horse in the race there was that Frankel horse without parole I think as well and he annihilated them and yeah they were special moments but I was probably naive that I didn't appreciate them or remember them enough.
I was very focused and I just moved on to the next day and I didn't savour them as much as I should have done probably. Just a little bit more recently then, you mentioned success at St Clue this afternoon. That was a group three I think was it in Transman? Yeah. One thing I wanted to mean the travel itself must be pretty demanding and we always think of you guys when you, I
UK to France isn't very far, but when you go to the Breeders' Cup or you go into Hong Kong or Japan or Australia, you always say that you're sitting at the front of the plane, so it's not as hard. But just the physical demands of travelling, even at the back end of the season, it should be a bit quieter. It must take its toll, doesn't it? It went over my head the first few years of doing it. But certainly the last two seasons, obviously when I came back from my suspension, I started to realise that it's not normal.
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There aren't any other sports, men or women in the world that would or could do it, I don't think, and still perform. If you're going for a jockey championship, you're going to ride seven days a week and maybe six of those in Britain and then the Sunday in France or Ireland or Germany or Italy or wherever. People keep asking me since I won the championship over the last fortnight or so.
you know, when are you taking a break? And there is no break. There are Group 1 races all over the world every month. And I'm very hungry to... I've only had three Group 1 winners this year. I'm very hungry to try and win as many as I can in my career. And there's no time for a break. I'm having a few days in America before the Breeders' Cup, but I'll be riding out in the mornings. And, yeah, it's...
It's a schedule that maybe is spoken about occasionally, but people don't understand it. I've had 200 odd winners in England since mid-February and I must have taken in over thousand rides and that was probably my, at least my eighth if not my tenth trip to France today. It's a busy life.
want to do well as a flat jockey. And how do you go as well with the different rules in different countries as well? It got a fair bit of press recently with Cezarevic winner being thrown out breaking the rules. So I had to remind myself, I had a quick look. So in France you can use it four times, the UK six and I think in America check it but I was looking at obviously various state by state but think Delmar is six as well. So it's not a great deal of difference but
When you're riding, mean, it's pretty instinctive, isn't it? It's muscle memory. I know there's only two difference, four and six, does it play? Do we make too much of it? it problem for you? No, I think with time, it becomes a lot easier. You know, when you're doing it year on year, like Ryan has it.
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or finds it easy to adapt to different rules. He can get on a plane riding Hong Kong or Japan and hit them 12 or 15 or however many they need. don't think, I think it gets easier with time, but certainly as a young rider, it's not, even with the best intentions, it's not that straightforward. Particularly when, if you haven't had many, much big race success and this is your golden opportunity.
It's very easy, like that very good writer, he's one of the top apprentices in my eyes. Jamie Powell in This Is Our Witch, but that's not going to stop him getting to a very high level. If anything, it will make him more determined. No, absolutely. do you then find, I mean, ultimately, the ideal, the perfect scenario is that the rules are the same everywhere, harmonization around the world. won't happen. It won't, will it? No, no, because like,
You know, the racing authorities in Asia realized that the racing fan, as long as horse welfare is at the forefront of their mind, are not concerned if a horse is. If the jockey is allowed to use his whip four times or 14 times, I don't think it enters their minds. you know, looking at how much press the sport of...
horse racing used to get in Great Britain versus nowadays. I don't believe that the lack of press now is due to the jockeys being allowed use of WIC. We've seen the WIC being basically eradicated in Scandinavian countries and they barely race anymore. It's impossible to get people to have any support for the actual game. And I think that comes down to the fact of
If a jockey can't ask a horse for maximum effort, it's very hard to know which was the best horse. You can accept a horse was unlucky in running, objectively from the average spectator, it's much easier if a jockey is allowed to ask a horse for an effort and give it every chance than one maybe when you're restricted by the amount of smacks. Watching that winner today in France,
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without paying much attention, you know, was a strong finish, tight finish, I don't know if it was a head in the end. But then I went back and looked at it again and you did only use your stick four times and you're actually probably half a length down, maybe even more when you'd use your four up and then you just hands and heels to the line. It's still an exciting finish. So obviously, let's say if you can, it still works in that regard, but do you feel that not under pressure so much, but if you are riding in Hong Kong or Japan, you then...
You have to change and then ride to their rules because if you don't then they say the perception is different. Yeah, well, even if I was riding in Hong Kong or Japan, I'd have only hit that horse maybe six or seven and she'd have still won. I was expecting a pace collapse. We didn't go very fast. We got racing early in the straight on heavy ground. We were always going to slow down. was just which one was going to slow down first or slow down more. And yeah, I don't know, Andrew. It's a...
For me it's a no-brainer because you don't have Irish, it's not a problem in Ireland, it's not a problem in a lot of jurisdictions, but it's at the forefront of the authorities' minds in certain countries and they include Britain, France and Germany. There's a couple other things I want to talk to you about, British Cup included coming up this weekend. We'll take a short break though, we'll be back straight after this.
Idol Horse (15:35.202)
Alright Sheena, your busy week continues then as you head off to Del Mar this weekend for the Breeders' Cup. Fantastic meeting I'm sure to be involved in. Must be a great buzz to be going back once more. It is. It was my only Breeders' Cup winner when I won the Dystac on Marsh Lorraine and it was interesting because I was supposed to write loves only you and I got joked off a week or two before which is rare in Japan actually. Normally when you're booked you're booked but yeah I suppose that...
stage as well, had a lot to prove. I had failed a alcohol test only three weeks previous, or maybe a full month previous actually, the day before this is our which at Newmarket. And I was in the waning room and I watched Mash Lorraine win and I was about to go out and ride a 66 to one shot or whatever she was in the distaff on dirt. And she had been running in some NAR races and there was no pressure.
and fortunately she won so I have very fond memories of Delmar. It's a very sharp track on turf though, really sharp and it's great for spectators, maybe not so good for jockeys. Yeah, what would it be, a furlong and a half maybe, the running? No, not even by the time you actually get them, well by the time you actually straighten and get them organised, no, it feels like it's over in the blink of an eye. Right, so what have we got this weekend? In the juvenile?
Yeah, in the juvenile mild turf, yeah, a new century. Listen, he's been brilliant since Canada. He's had obviously a bit of experience with traveling. Woodbine was one time, this is two. He felt great on Wednesday. The first part of his travel over went really smoothly. I rode him Wednesday. I saw all the footage of him this morning. So the signs are good. And yeah, I presume he'd be one of the favorites.
So he must have a pretty good constitution as a two-year-old to order you've traveled to North America to win that race at Woodbine to go back and then come back up again for this one. And being by Kamiko as well, suppose, that mean anything a little bit extra to you too? Yeah, does. does. The fact I rode Kamiko's first grade one winner, that's great. And obviously he's doing very well as a stallion. The two stand out courts are obviously New Century and Wimbledon Hawkeye.
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and they should train on as well because he trained on very well. Andrew, I have a fair bit of belief in him. We worked three colts mid-summer on the grass, Windlord, Royal Playwright and New Century. New Century went the best of them and the other two colts are group two placed. So the forms worked out very well of that gallop.
You know, very pleased with this animal. He's got a good mind, he tries very hard and the faster the ground the better. And won't forget Ulfvin in the Phillies and Mays turf? Yeah, it was very nice of Charlie actually to think of me. I had running line in the race and she unfortunately had an issue with muscle enzymes last week so she isn't going to make the race. So Charlie asked me to ride Beautiful Love. She's had a few spins in America. She's a great three-winner out there.
and she'll have the pace actually to travel and lay up. So if I can get a nice spot with a good draw would be helpful. She can run a nice race. It's just, it's nice to have more than one ride and certainly in those colors for a trainer like Charlie Appabees who's had so much Breeders' Cup success already. From the outside looking in, I don't expect you to give a full form report on the race, but the Breeders' Cup Classic, always fascinating. It's always interesting to see what's...
Aidan throws the race and the of Troy has just been unbelievable this year. you have a, say, just a broadly speaking, an opinion of what might happen there? Well, he is an airplane because I followed him in the derby and when I got to the bottom of the hill, I'm on a solid group three horse, Bellum Justin, and I thought I was going okay and then Ryan put about 20 lengths on me in a furlong.
I thought what he did in the Gidmont International was good. He went, you know, start to finish. He didn't have an easy time in front and he galloped through the line. I hope he gets drawn a little bit low, you know, I think two to six would be great and I think it'd be wonderful for European racing if he could win the classic. It's maybe not the strongest classic of all time, but for a
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Irish trained horse, obviously he's by justify but he's out of a oaks placed mare. It would be brilliant. I think they deserve it as well. They've trained him for the race and Delmar dirt track is pretty open. It's very different from the turf. He should, provided he has some luck with the draw, he should have every chance.
It's going to be one of the highlights of the weekend. think that's the British classic always is. Best of luck with that. Just before we let you go, wanted to, I know you've been very busy this weekend, but I know you keep a keen eye on international racing. You must have seen Via Sistina in the Cox plane. Yeah, well, J-Mac was brilliant on her and you know, fair play to Chris Waller and his team and his veterinary team because
You know, would have been very easy to scratch her and make her a non-runner. She obviously ran loose with bandages hanging off her legs. She could have fallen again. She was dominant. She moved up from before the 600. And I should have won the Kipko British Champion Stakes on her. I hit the front and dropped my stick. And it was probably one of the worst moments of my career. I'm exaggerating.
She can pull up in front, but J Mac wasn't worried about her pulling up in front because I'd say he had so much belief in her. yeah, she's paid her purchase price back. She was an expensive mare, a daughter, a fastnet rock. you know, she was, I rode her a lot, obviously, in her work as a younger horse. And you know, she was never pushed too much because she wasn't that sound, but by God.
She's come good and it just goes to show if you take a patient approach they can get over their niggles and you can be rewarded later on. Because you mentioned Ben Battle earlier, you rode him in a Cox plate but you bumped into quite a good mare that year as well. Yeah, unfortunately Winks was in her prime and Ben Battle wasn't at his best either. He didn't have a great preparation for the race but she was dominant on the day and how many Cox plates
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would he have won without her in them. But anyway, that's the great sport of horse racing. We're in, And, you know, it was a good result. mean, it was J-Maxx's 100th Group 1 victory. I don't think he's much older than me. I've only won 31 and he's won 100. So, you know, all credit to him. Yeah, no, it's a fantastic achievement. What an occasion to do that as well, to bring up the century. Just on that, you mentioned riding via Sistina, I'll get that name out in a second. Another medic
came down here as well. Alcohol Free you had a fair bit to do with. It's incredible as well, like both two very classy mares but Alcohol Free just didn't fire at all for whatever reason when she came here and the other one did. Yeah, Alcohol Free probably gave everything on the track. She was a group one winner two, three and four from Six Furlongs to a mile and back to Six Furlongs and
She was very howdy and I think they should look forward to breeding from her. I believe she visited Franklin and you know please God know she'll be a lucky broodman. absolutely. Well Osheen really appreciate your time this afternoon particularly so you're sitting there at the airport waiting to jump on a flight back to the UK and then off to California next week as well so best of luck on the weekend and also with your
your future plans as well, wherever those targets might be. We'll catch up again soon. Thanks very much, Andrew. Make sure you like, share and subscribe and head to the trilingual website, idlehorse.com for more news stories and analysis and the build up to the Breeders' Cup meeting this weekend and beyond.