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Manhood often feels like navigating through uncharted territory, but you don't have to walk alone. Join us as we guide a conversation about how to live intentionally so that we can join God in reclaiming the masculine restorative presence he designed us to live out. Laugh, cry, and wonder with us as we explore the ins and outs of manhood together.
Cody Buriff
Hey guys, welcome to the Restored a Man podcast. My name is Cody Buriff and today I'm joined by Jesse French. Hey man, hey guys, if you're listening and you didn't listen to last week's podcast, we started off talking about harvesting the harvest season. The fact that, you know, it's October that we're really recording this and releasing it. And so around me, there are combines running around chewing up corn and soybeans and that's happening across the country. And we just thought it'd be a good time to reflect.
Jesse French
Hello, Cody.
Cody Buriff
on some things. And so if you haven't listened to last week's that sets up this week's, talked a lot about the harvest process and not actually the harvest process of plants, but actually the harvesting of our stories and our souls and what's going on in us. And so today though, we want to jump into the concept of threshing, which Jesse, you want to, you want to tell everybody what threshing is?
Jesse French
Yeah. So as we think about the harvesting of grains in the plant world, threshing is the process of separating the grain, the desirable kernel from the less desirable stock. And so like we were saying last week, you know, the biblical references of that and kind of allusions of that. But threshing is that process of saying, hey, here's the desirable fruit from the less desirable.
Other by-product type of thing, if we want to use kind of those, those real, real course course products. So, so threshing is that process of being able to say, Hey, we have to, in order to get what we want, we need to be able to separate everything that was grown, right. Into some different subcategories. And so Cody, you know, we, talked about this last step, the previous episode of like the gathering of the experiences of the relationships of what our year has held, right. And the harvest of getting all those in one place.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, totally.
Jesse French
Now the threshing is then going into this practice of further kind of separating, now that it's all in one place, but to separate that into different categories. When we think about that and that practice in our own lives, where does your mind go around some of what threshing might include for us as men and as humans?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, think, you know, talking about threshing in terms of our souls and our stories as men, I think it's the kinds of questions we want to start getting into is like, okay, what parts of what I'm living are real, and nourishing and life giving? What are the parts that I'm living that maybe aren't that are, let's say, protective or false or fear driven or whatever? And so it's
you kind of going through the sorting floor a little bit of like, what parts of my life, what parts of my story are things that I want to hang on to? And what are the things that maybe need to be put aside? You know, and it's kind of the process of interpreting, you know, our pain interpreting our circumstances, probably not our circumstances as much as how we're dealing with them to help us kind of grab onto the things that life is attached to.
Jesse French
Yeah, that's good. So when we think about that process of trying to attach, what life was present as you're talking about that, we're in a different space than like an objective, hey, we, you know, like in the ag world to say like, hey, our yield on this field was, you know, 300 bushels an acre, right? Which is like incredibly objective. It's very easy to assess. This was the yield. It's this, you know,
objective concrete evaluation of that. When we're talking about the experiences in our life, the relationships in our life, how we were formed, Like no numbers, know, numbers aren't real helpful. So we're in a much more kind of qualitative or subjective realm. so continue to just kind of unpack some of that, Cody. So I'll just like give, I'll give an example for me as I think about one of the things that this past year has held for me.
And one of the experiences that that has held, that was significant was like both of my oldest two daughters are in middle school. And so when I think about this last year, like them stepping into that significant experience in our family and for me. And so if I've done some of the work of like, okay, Hey, this is an experience that I'd love to harvest to lean into more. Now I'm into some of the threshing. Like, how do I understand this? Where would your mind go Cody in terms of some of the questions that.
I could begin to ask to kind of be on that, that threshing floor of like, how do I find myself in? How do I understand this in that just to be like super granular.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I mean, that's fairly specific, but we all have these fairly specific. It is.
Jesse French
I'm putting you on the spot and then.
Cody Buriff
It's all right. No, no, no. I wonder, Jesse, like what I'm aware of, at least in my life and what I've read and heard about everybody else's lives, especially when we have kids, is that when our kids enter certain stages of life, like those periods of time in our own lives, our own stories, like actually rise to the surface and percolate, whether we realize it or not, that happens. so.
for guys for guys with kids specifically who are kind of wanting to figure out this space of threshing we'll call it. It's kind of even wondering like, okay, well, my daughter just started sixth grade, you know, or eighth grade or whatever it is. And like, what was going on for me when I was at age, like what some of the pieces of my story that were being formed, you know, and so that's where my mind goes in response to that question. I don't know if that's threshing per se.
Jesse French
Well, I think it's for sure, it's trying to engage the whole scope of what that experience is, right? To be able to say, look, for sure, there is a level of that, of what that looks like with my daughters and for us as a family. But what you're getting at, which I love, is like, no, there's also the consideration of my own formation and what my story has held that is not just locked away 30 years ago, but it actually shows up into this. So I think that's a fascinating one. I love that you brought that up.
Cody Buriff
Well, I might, I might put you on the spot here in a second, actually. We're doing today. I, so I think one of the things that Threshing can hold, it is a separating. And when I think about like actual physically with a plant, when you're pulling out a kernel, you're pulling it out of something that has hidden it, that has protected it maybe even, even held it up. And you know,
in our own lives, like we often find ourselves projecting, know, we talk about, you know, projecting and kind of wearing masks and kind of like creating these things that protect us. And so I'm just curious, like, what are some ways that we do that? And what are some ways, maybe even more importantly, how can we identify the things that need to be stripped away, you know, so that the man that we are can actually breathe?
Jesse French
Well, shoot, Cody, that's a real easy one. That gun. Shoot. That's such a good question.
Cody Buriff
Got you
Jesse French
I mean, the full disclosure piece that you and I have talked about a lot is like, think for you and I, like where we find ourselves in, you know, kind of this late thirties, early forties spaces is that that identification of like those protective things. And what you're doing here is kind of like zooming out into like some of the separation and the understanding of our whole lives, which I think is really good. Gosh, those protective mechanisms. mean, Chris has written Chris Bruno has written a lot in.
his book Sage, which is so, helpful in talking about some of that process. I think at least for me, Cody, I guess the process of being able to identify, Hey, these ways of navigating life to actually give language to that in the ways that have helped me navigate life that have helped me survive. That's some of that work. So for me, and I've talked about this before, like the process of pursuing results or performing for results has been a significant.
You know, I, in that metaphor, like protective way that I have navigated through life. and so I think to be able to give some language to that feels helpful. think the man in terms of the process, the, like the movement out of that, maybe an into what you're saying, like who we truly are. mean, goodness, that's total lifelong journey. And I guess I would just say like, to be able to have some more awareness of when we can risk. And I said risk, like in a good way, risk.
Or choose, I don't have to use that sort of protective shell in this space, right. Or in this conversation in this interaction, right. Of like, Hey, maybe I can try something else in that way. And so I think some of that process, some of that trying to say, Hey, there's some different ways of operating. My mind goes there. And some of that, I'm glad you went there. Like again, that feels like some of the, separating and threshing, right. Of like our lives zoomed out, right. Over the course of years and decades.
Cody Buriff
Yeah. And even I wonder like, you know, just asking the question of like, who have I shown up as versus who I actually am. And sometimes we don't know the difference, right? Living with a mask for long enough, it feels like your actual face, you know, but even like zooming in a little bit more to like the last year of like, who was the man that showed up? Yes. And what was, what are the ways in which this man showed up?
that were, like I said before, protective or fear driven or false or trying to manipulate, you know, relationships or people or whatever, and trying to dig into some of those spaces. And it's less about like, again, we talked about this in the last podcast, it's less about shaming yourself for it, whatever you've done wrong per se, but it's more like uncovering the desire underneath it. What was, what has the man this last year been needing?
or wanting. And how did he go about it in ways that were like wonderful? And what are the ways that know, second story and masks, you know, showed up and vows were kept in negative ways and you know, lies were believed. so what are the things that ideally moving forward, you want to continue stripping off? Because they're not actually you, you know, as you mentioned, like performative piece.
And I just wonder if a lot of times the way that we might uncover or discover what some of those masks have been, what some of those husks have been is, is it, you know, where are we worried? Where are we anxious? Are we question it? Yep.
Jesse French
question.
yeah, so good. And I think the other side of that as well is like some of the reflection around like, where did we show up light? Where did we show up generous? Where did we show up whimsy? Where did we show up like, yeah, where there is a sense of possibility?
Because I think those are such interesting questions as well, right? That are also getting again, what you're after of like the trueness of who we are and who God created us to be, right? And to, you know, also reflect around some of that as some, as some areas for, some of that exploration.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I'm so glad you said that because we are so good at uncovering our crap or how terrible we were or whatever, you know, we like to beat ourselves up for like screwing up, you know, but we also have to like you can't thrash and get rid of the things that were false if you don't also look for hunt down the things that were good and true. Yes.
Jesse French
Yes. Yes. Yes.
Cody Buriff
And that's one of the things I think, frankly, like what I've noticed in Restoration Project, and I've been in ministry for like, whatever, a couple of decades now, is that there is a strong push to go after the glory of God in men, the glory of God in us. It's not just going after our sin, right? Or, you know, whatever. It's going after our glory. What is our first story? Who did he make us to be? And how are we starting to show up that way?
Yes. think there's a rally like naming that is just as important, if not more important, actually.
Jesse French
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. I'm so glad you said that, And like you said, we're far more familiar with the other, and so it is way more uncomfortable, less familiar to sit in the other place of, here is this glory, this goodness of God that I bear in a unique way.
Cody Buriff
So Jesse, I think most of us know how to hunt down a lot of the hard things or false things that we showed up in and that kind of thing. And we may not be real familiar with trying to uncover and discover the glory that may have shown up in the last year. Jesse, what are some questions, some practical ways that we can engage that space of threshing and kind of sorting out, interpreting our lives?
Jesse French
Yeah, so I'm going to maybe I'll give you a couple of thoughts, one on sort of like the personal side of it and then also like another as kind of the experiential piece of it as well. I think, I mean, I said a couple of them, like where in these experiences did I show up unhindered? Where did I show up in these experiences? Like I had nothing to lose. Where did I show up where I could create freely and the governor or the filter felt like that was.
off or less so? Where in the past year, what were the pockets where you lost track of time? And then specifically around that, what was it about that? So yes, maybe that was activity-based. was doing something that I really enjoyed, what about that nurtured or nourished a place within me? think that word nourish of where were the places where I was nourished? Those are some of those, I think, initial curiosities, which
Which again, I appreciate you asking because I think that again, and you said it like, we're trying to approach this through this lens and through this posture of curiosity, right? Of threshing of wonder rather than like shame and judgment and assumption. And so that posture I think is so central. think another, maybe another lens around that. And we really like the word threshold in restoration project, you know, kind of this hinge point place.
And so I think a couple other questions, maybe, especially as we think through some of that harvest of experience, right? Is like, as you come and are reflecting on that reflection or on that experience, like what is coming to an end? Right? Like are there places, you know, to give my example of my daughter's going into middle school, like what is ending as they step into that? And to give some articulation to that conversely or on the other side of that, what is hope that I have for the upcoming time? Right? So kind of like sadness and hope.
You say it often and well, right? Like what is the grief? What is the celebration? I think another set of questions too, in some of that threshing space is like, what was known about that time? What was like orienting and stabilizing for us in that, in an experience. And like, as we look ahead to what's coming, like what is unknown and what is uncertain? And so those are just the kind of question pairs in trying to have a greater sense of what our experiences has held that maybe is helpful in some of that.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, that's super helpful.
Jesse French
Cody, when you think about that separating of our experiences to be able to thresh, what would you say is our temptation to the places that have not yielded what we wanted, that not have like an outcome that we wanted? What is the temptation in terms of how would you respond to that? And what would be a different invitation that you might offer to us? Because I would imagine that's like, you said it a little bit ago, like let's baseline and normalize the fact that disappointment and that is going to be there. And so what would you say to that?
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I mean, I mean, when I think about my temptations, to be real, I'm probably tempted to do one of two things. And it's either get really down on myself and like live in a pit of pity or something, you know, like, or ignore it altogether and just keep moving. Like I said in the previous podcast, like I'm not great at reflecting on what's been. I would rather think about what's coming. And one of my temptations is to just pretend it didn't happen.
and keep moving forward.
Jesse French
I love that you said that. I think that's true for so many. What gets lost or what gets missed when we ignore it and fail to do to actually sit with it.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, I think a lot of things can get lost. We can miss out on frankly a lot of pieces of how we're showing up and why if we actually dig down into why we're showing up that way and why the things that were lost were lost. And really it's in asking ourselves of how we're dealing with those things, how we're experiencing those things or not dealing with them. And I think there's good question to ask is the curious questions of like, why is that?
Jesse French
Why are we so tempted to just skim right past and not acknowledge the disappointment?
Cody Buriff
Yeah. Or like, frankly, why do we feel like we have to sit in it forever and we can't get out of it? Yeah. And I think both of those are protective, actually false husks that we can find ourselves living in and, and, and justify and make them sound good, you know? And I think when we do that,
Jesse French
Also true.
Cody Buriff
inevitably like it impacts us, it impacts the people in our lives, it impacts our work, it impacts our relationship with the Lord because we're not engaging honestly, not honoring what has been.
Jesse French
Yeah. Yep. Cody, as we kind of turn the corner on it, I think it's important to say, like, as we think about this process of threshing, of giving more language and wandering around, as we're in this process, I think it's so important that we also say, like, I would say this is both an individual and a relational process. And so I think if it's only one or the other, we miss something. So I think it has to have the level of like,
In solitude, our consideration and our curiosity and our going through this past year underscored alongside the Spirit of God to like say like, Hey, give me your eyes to what this is held. Give me your heart for who you see me to be. Right. And so it has to, would say like we miss something if we don't have that from that solitary alongside the presence of Jesus space. And I think we also miss something if we don't invite.
other brothers into that as well, to say like, hey man, it feels like there's something here in this experience that feels important and I would welcome your wonder, I'd welcome your curiosity, your insight. I think both of those in the threshing process, both of those spaces are really, really important that we're able to do both.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, yeah, yeah, mean, wheat and corn and whatever doesn't thresh itself.
Jesse French
That's right.
Cody Buriff
You know, you know, I would say like grains like need the wind and Need to rub up against each other for that to happen. And so yeah, dude I'm glad you said that because like we can't usually do a great job of figuring out those things ourselves on our own We can start to engage it the Spirit of God will speak to us That's a big deal and like, you know, we've said you like you can't see your own face and that kind of thing like, you know
We need other men in our lives. We need the people we have relationships with, whether it's our wives, our friends, our kids even, to be able to name like, dad, this is how I saw you show up. Yeah. Hey husband, like here's your glory. This is like a part of who God made you to be that has shown up in this last year that is so good. know, and like, here's some ways that I think you were living out of, you know, some shame.
or some protective nature and that stinks and it doesn't have to be that way. you, know, like we need the people in our lives to help us see what we can't see ourselves. Yeah.
Jesse French
Yeah, right. Like I think what you're describing, right? The Ignatians say so well, right? Like it is the examine of God. It is like the examine of others, right? That we might have a truer sense of what is. Cody, thanks. Thanks for this, this conversation. And we got one more to go. got. Part three, the final element of this conversation and talking about the importance of letting things lay fallow. So that's the teaser and thanks for.
Your thoughts on this conversation is good.
Cody Buriff
Yeah, man, looking forward to it.
Jesse French
Cool. Adios.