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British Columbia is in the grips of a housing affordability crisis decades in the making. The Province has an ambitious plan to tackle the crisis through the largest investment in housing affordability in B.C.’s history. Tasked with building tens of thousands of homes in hundreds of communities is BC Housing, the agency responsible for developing, managing, and administering a wide range of subsidized housing and homelessness services across the province. BC Housing doesn’t do this alone, they work with hundreds of partners. In this podcast, you’ll hear from those tackling the crisis head on.
A home.
It's something we all need.
But for too many
having a safe place to make
a home is out of reach.
The challenges can seem
insurmountable.
And yet each and every day
people are coming together
to provide
safe quality and affordable
housing for those in need.
Welcome to Let's Talk
Housing.
I'm your host Mita Naidu.
Join us as we listen to
and learn
from people in British
Columbia
who are creating strong
inclusive communities
where everyone can thrive.
Hello and welcome to
Let's Talk Housing.
I'm your host
Mita Naidu joined today
by co-host Qwuy’um’aat Elliott.
On today's episode
we talk about
intergenerational living
and housing
from an Indigenous
perspective and voice.
Intergenerational living
is a cornerstone
of Indigenous culture
where wisdom tradition
and stories
are passed down from elders
to younger generations.
A new housing
development in Vancouver
will reflect these values
creating spaces
where generations can live
together
share experiences
and support one another.
It's more than housing.
It's a space
for cultural exchange
mutual care and a deeper
sense of togetherness.
We're joined
for this conversation by
Brenda Knights CEO of BC
Indigenous Housing Society.
She'll discuss
how being raised by her
grandmother shaped her
teaching her the importance
of connection resilience
and belonging.
They'll discuss
an innovative pilot
which is part of
their sustainability
and resiliency strategy.
Before we get underway
I'd like to acknowledge
that we are recording
today's
session on the ancestral
and unceded territories
of the Musqueam
Squamish Tsleil-Waututh and Kyuquot
First Nations
and the Cowichan
and Hul’q’umi’num’
speaking peoples.
I express my gratitude
to their peoples past
and present.
Brenda is speaking to us
from the ancestral
and unceded territory
of the Mississauga
of the Credit First Nation.
Also for transparency
we are recording this
episode in November 2024
and the conversation
reflects
the priorities of this time.
So I thought we'd start
with
just kind of
setting the tone
and thinking
about how your work, Brenda
reflects a need
for this deep connection
to community and family.
I also grew up
in a multi-generational
and intergenerational home
and I live in
one now as well.
Can you share for us
a moment in your life
where you felt
the transformative power
of intergenerational wisdom?
Thank you, Mita.
Yeah.
So I grew up with
a good portion
of my childhood
with a single mother
and having that connection
to family, to community
I think made a big
difference in my life.
It was really difficult
on my mom.
She only had the opportunity
to go to grade eight.
You know, dealing with
intergenerational trauma
you know having
to take care of her siblings
at a young age.
So when my brother and
I were born and my my dad
had left the home
you know I think
having that connection
to my grandma's home
you know, every Sunday
we had dinners with grandma
all the cousins gathered.
I think that really made
a difference in my life.
I didn't feel like I grew up
in a single parent home.
I always felt like
I always had that connection
to my cousins and family.
My mom always maintained
that strong connection
to our siblings and cousins
that really grew up
almost like siblings.
And so when
when I had my children
and was going back
in the workplace
my mom was very insistent
that she was going to take
care of the grandbabies.
And in my community,
the elders
they want to take care
of the grandbabies.
They don't want them
going into care.
And so, that made it a lot
easier, the transition
going back to work
having my children
in a safe place with my mom.
But then
also they got the
opportunity to go to Head
Start in my community.
And so they got to learn
about the culture.
They got to learn
the language
drumming and singing.
So those extra supports
I think for young people
especially having families
having
that type of connection
I think instills a lot
of confidence in our kids.
It teaches them about our
our culture.
They always feel like
they have a home.
And I think that's
really important for them
as they go through life.
I very much agree.
Thank you, Brenda.
Qwuy’um’aat, did you have
a follow up?
Yeah. Thank you.
Again, it's such an honour
to connect with you, Brenda.
Recognizing your work
in the sector
with community
with culturally aligned
housing land agreements.
Myself I have a background
in community
planning and housing.
So when I had
the opportunity
to dive
into your rich background
I'm very keen on getting
to dive a bit deeper
to conversation.
More specifically...
So recognizing you were
raised by your grandmother.
Again, very common within
Indigenous communities.
I remember
I think my fondest memory
is spending time
with my grandma
and my papa as well.
It was just so natural.
And I think as I heard in
your conversation or your
starting point there
the key lessons
that you carry forward
from those experiences
and just moving forward
with that connection.
Right.
And recognizing that we're
part of this larger system.
I'm curious... so what lessons
do you carry forward?
Having spent time
with your grandma
in the work
that you do today?
I think because I've been
connected with my nation
and I look at
the things that are positive
in community
that some of our urban
population is detached from.
So I've often looked at in
my role now as the CEO of BC
Indigenous Housing Society.
How can I bring
some of those practices
into the urban environment?
And when
I look back I always try to
think of things so
that they're simple
to remember
and there's
sort of four areas
that I think that make a
a successful community.
If I look at nations
that are doing well
I think they have
strong governance.
So there’s the stability
and that brings the supports
to the membership.
And so when I look at that
in the urban environment
I think it's important
that we do
as much as we can
with what we have
and we're responsible
with that.
We have to have community
services.
We are doing more
than housing for our people.
So in a nation
environment
we're supporting people
with education.
We're supporting people
with supports for mental
health
drug and alcohol addictions
anything that's going to
help them to be successful.
You can go
into the band office
and get those supports
and you have that family
around to support you to
be successful as well.
The other one is there
has to be a form of economy.
We all have to
earn a living.
You know, since time
immemorial
we all had roles and gifts
that we brought
to make community
and that was our survival.
And so, in today's
context
our tenants need to have
a form of economy.
And so we're trying
to connect them with
like we have a lot of
artisans
in our community,
for example.
So we have TVs
in our buildings.
So keeping them informed
about what's going on
in their community,
where can they participate.
And different marketplaces
or special events
where they can sell
some of their artisans.
And then the last one
is culture.
And I think that’s sometimes
forgotten
about in today's society
how important culture is for
me, it’s
what's helped me
to stay grounded.
And I think
about the teachings that
my grandmother
passed on, family
first, you know
we're there for one another.
My grandmother would defend
her grandchildren
no matter what.
You know, we might
internally give each other
a slap on the hand
when we're off track.
But to anyone else
externally.
My grandmother
she always had your back.
She always had your...
You always had
the support of her.
And so again, I think that
helped with my confidence
growing up knowing that
I always had somebody
that loved and supported me.
But other teachings
that were passed along.
In my community of Kwantlen,
we talk about
the importance
of living by the seven laws
health, happiness,
humbleness, generation,
generosity, forgiveness,
and understanding.
My grandmother didn't
articulate it in that way
but through
her actions she instilled
that type of conduct in
us and expected that of us.
And then as well
my mother as well
lives that way.
And so I think we were
just taught to be that way.
And it wasn't until older
that I got connected
with my community.
And when I heard the Seven
Laws, I thought, yeah, that
that resonates.
That makes a lot of sense.
And so in our organization today
in an urban environment
we're teaching our employees
to live
by those seven laws.
And so when it comes to
caring for our tenants
come with a mindset
of forgiveness
and understanding.
When you think
about the word generations
in the Seven Laws
we're here to
make it better
for future generations
but also
take care of our elders.
In my community, I look at
our elders
and what they and
I think about what
they've seen in their
lifetime and
I'm amazed sometimes
at how overcome with emotion
they are when they see their
grandbabies doing so well.
And it's a reminder
that
they've gone
through
a lot in their lifetime
and they just want their
grandbabies to have it
better than they had it.
And so it's those
kinds of teachings that
I think I really want to try
and bring back
to the urban environment
and connect our people
because many have been
disenfranchized
from their communities
so they don't have
that access to culture.
When I say bring it back,
it's not necessarily
me. We have many cultural
leaders in our community
that can be invited in
to speak to our tenants.
And so we're looking
for those opportunities
to have them come and be
part of our community.
Very beautiful and rich.
I find there's so many
threads to pull together
and I find that there's
some fluidness and
the holistic connections.
And we all have a role
within family,
community, housing,
generations, connecting
generations together
when there's
not necessarily a framework
or a structure.
It's intuitive and holistic
of when the roles shape.
Right.
And our role
within organizations
within community.
I want to take
a bit of a jump and explore
how this translates
into place and space.
And then perhaps
making the connection
to the Chief
Leonard George Place.
And how does this dedicated
space uplift
everything
it kind of shared
or how does it
weave together
for you?
Sure.
So we're very excited about
the Chief
Leonard George project.
For one, it's a mass timber,
universally designed
passive home.
And so we
know from our communities
that the environment
you're in
it affects
your mental health.
And so being able to stay
in such a beautiful building
I think it's going to be
fantastic for our tenants.
Now some of our tenants
that are returning to
this location,
they experienced a fire.
We had a total
loss of our building
a couple days after
Christmas back in 2017
and so many had to scatter
and be displaced
into new buildings
but are looking forward
to coming home
that lived there
for a long time.
So we're looking forward
to welcoming them back.
What this opportunity did
though is it also offered
the opportunity
to build more units.
And so with those new units
taking some of the teachings
of living intergenerational
generationally
one of the challenges
we run into
especially in
the city of Vancouver
is the economics
of a building
having multiple rooms.
And many of our people
a 1 or 2 bedroom
isn't going to cut it.
We have families
with children.
They need larger spaces.
At the same time
we have to manage
the economics of that space.
And so how can we bring
families together?
Well, the way we can bring
families together is by
prioritizing applications.
So what I mean
by prioritizing
applications
if we have a family
that's in a two bedroom unit
and grandparents
can be in the same building
while they're not
in the same unit
at least they're
they're in close proximity
to provide those
supports to the family.
The other thing we're really
proud of with the Chief
Leonard George building is
we are going to have a Head
Start in the building
and so the children
can go to Head Start right
close to home which helps
parents to go out
and work
or do what they need to do.
And at Head Start, it's
really a gathering place
in my community.
My aunt is the Head
Start instructor
my mom is actually the elder
that works at Head Start
and they've been there since
inception over 20 years
and many of the kids
that have since graduated
is still come by and visit.
They always have that safe
place to go to.
And my kids having attended
they were able to learn
from cultural teachers.
They were able to learn
about drumming and singing.
They were learning
the language
even just elders coming
and spending time with them
and just having
that safe place
outside of the home.
I think that's so important
for kids to have
that place
that they can go to
and talk to somebody if they
need to talk to somebody.
So we're
super excited about that
and we're looking forward
to future buildings.
Also having a Head
Start program
that can support the
residents in the building.
And that's
all part of the family
and communal living.
I can see it building
off of the Seven Laws
in which you shared
and the core teachings
and the concept of family
and community.
Is there a specific legacy
Chief Leonard
George plays in the vision
of the development
or is there connection
to that as well?
Well
I think the most exciting
thing about this building
is that it is a passive home
and universally designed.
So when I say
universally designed
when we have elders
in the building
we want them be able
to stay and age in place
and not have to be displaced
from their families.
A lot of units
that were built in the past
don't actually have
accessibility for people
that are in wheelchairs
or need better access
you know
just even then
in the bathroom
or around the kitchen
being able
to be more mobile
should they find themselves
in say a wheelchair
in the future.
And that's
always challenging.
Then when you have to remove
somebody from their home.
But having universally
designed hallways
you know
putting in place bathrooms
that are universally
designed can allow a person
to stay in their home
for life.
So that's exciting to me.
The piece
about it being passive
you know and
I mentioned the Seven Laws
and we talk about
generations
we have a responsibility
to leave this planet better
for future generations.
And the amount of pollution
that's coming
from our buildings
from greenhouse
gas emissions.
As an Indigenous
organization
we want to do our part
to ensure that our buildings
aren’t polluting
the environment.
And with Chief
Leonard George, with it
being passive mass timber
we actually will also reduce
hydro costs
in that building
as a result of it
being passive.
But we're not putting
greenhouse gas emissions
into our planet.
And so I hope that
future buildings
we can do the same thing.
So that's the piece
that really excites me
about that building.
That's beautiful.
And who was Chief
Leonard George?
Chief Leonard George...
Everybody seems
to know Chief Dan George.
Chief Leonard George
was his brother and
he was from Tsleil-Waututh. Our
organization previously...
some of the names
of buildings were
not reflecting our community
and our culture and
and we really want to try
and honour people that maybe
perhaps
people in our community
may have heard
may not have heard about.
But Chief Leonard George
how he came about
was because so he was from
Tsleil-Waututh Nation.
So we're on the traditional
lands of the Tsleil-Waututh
Nation
Squamish and Musqueam.
So when we approached
the family
and asked about naming it
after him, had a chance
to learn about him.
He was instrumental
in helping get
economic development
going with that nation.
A real leader
in that community.
And that's who
we want to honour
with our building,
is those unsung heroes
that we don't necessarily
hear about
that inspire the people
living in the building.
Those are the people
that should be...
When we talk
about humbleness
and our Seven Laws
he was an individual
that lived humbly
wasn't
looking for the spotlight
but absolutely
should be highlighted
for what he achieved in
his lifetime and what he did
for Indigenous people.
So we're very honoured
that the family agreed
to let us put his name
on the building.
And there will be a ceremony
coming up at the opening
with the family.
Wonderful.
I feel like it's a coming
together of so many pieces.
I can see how this space
can really be
a stepping stone
and pivotal in healing.
Right?
The the aspects
of community connection.
Do you believe that
theme will carry forward
within this space
the intergenerational
aspects
of healing
and transformation?
How do you see that taking
shape
as you continue forward?
You mentioned a ceremony
to acknowledge and uplift
the legacy.
Is there other aspects
that will be carried out?
What we're trying to do
is really focus
on how we can fundraise
to bring in
cultural presenters.
So if we could be teaching
cedar basket weaving
drumming and singing
bringing elders in.
And so we have a group
from our organization
that are regularly
looking for grants
that they can bring people
in to the...
and be part of that community
as a gathering space.
The other exciting thing
that our organization
and our board passed
this past year
was an ESG policy.
So that stands
for environmental
social and governance.
I know you know
that from the work you do.
But with the
ESG policy,
we're looking to have
a committee that includes
tenants that can contribute
to ways that we can ensure
that we're
being held accountable
but also as a community.
How can we improve
the environment
from the social perspective?
How do we improve things
from a social perspective
and how do we ensure that
we have good governance?
And so I have
a responsibility to ensure
that I have the respect
of my tenants
because they look to me to
help them and support them
in an urban environment.
And so I have to gain
their trust,
gain their respect.
I'm grateful
that the board selected me
but we have work to do with
our tenants and to get to
that place where they feel
that they have that trust.
You're doing such
extraordinary work
in that space.
What would your grandmother
have to say?
You know my grandmother
wasn't somebody
with a lot of words.
And I do think that it is a...
she was a product
of intergenerational
trauma.
You know what
she went through...
Many of our elders
only recently have felt that
they can have a voice but
I think she would be proud.
But I also
I'm very careful not to
again, one of the
the laws being humble.
I am in a leadership
position
but I do see myself
as a servant leader in that
it's the entire organization.
It's not me sitting at the top
and directing everybody
what to do.
I recognize that I have a gift to bring.
And my gift
is leadership.
I'm the conductor
of the orchestra.
But if I don't have the
rest of my staff...
I have amazing staff.
I have people that
have worked in supportive
housing for years
and understand
how to advocate
and get people
the supports that they need.
We have people working in
finance and HR
we have an all Indigenous
board and it's collectively
that we are able to move
forward and be successful.
It's not just one person
that makes the organization
successful.
And I think
my grandmother
that's how she was
she was very humble
didn't want any recognition.
She got involved
in community
and just did her part.
And when I think about how
my community
lived in long houses and
at least
in the winter months
we were hunter gatherers.
And then we moved in the
winter to our long houses
and we all had gifts.
If you didn't
have the medicine teachers
and you might need
a plant to die
so you needed the people
that had the plant medicine.
You needed the hunter
gatherers, you needed the
the people that cook
the meals.
We, again, we all had
those roles to play.
So, I think my part is...
I often
think is very simple.
And in terms of
just having to
to lead and
and bring that vision.
But I also recognize that
those are from teachings
that have been passed on in
my community
and passed on from my elders.
So I'm really
just grateful for that.
Thank you so much Brenda
and please let us know...
Let the listeners know.
How can we support
your organization
especially those in
non-Indigenous communities?
What can we do?
I just suggest that
there's a lot of discussion
happening on truth
and reconciliation,
which is wonderful
especially in
our schools.
But, ask yourself
how you can
truly put reconciliation
into action
because it's one thing
to talk about.
It's another thing to
actually make a difference.
And there's many ways that
you can get involved.
You can reach out
to your local community.
There's lots of volunteer
opportunities.
There's opportunities
for donations
with organizations
that support programing.
Really just
you've just got to step in
and get involved.
And I know it's not easy
when we're all busy
but ask yourself
what gifts you have
and how you can support
and make a difference
to somebody else
that... as we say
it's going to take
seven generations
to create change.
And so... I didn't tell you,
my great great granddad
was Grand Chief Wattlekanium
who met the Simon Fraser
expedition.
And that's in present day
New Westminster
when first settlers arrived.
Well my daughter is the
seventh generation from him
and so that's
from the late 1700s.
And you think about
what's happened
in that time period.
So we still have
a lot of work to do.
So just, get involved
do what you can.
It's welcomed.
We have
people on healing journeys
so don't be discouraged
if you don't
get the response
you're looking for.
We have some people
that are hurting
and it takes time
for them to trust.
And so
you just have to be patient.
But I find that
when you're patient
and you just lend an ear
people will be very gracious
to have that support.
Well thank you so much, Brenda.
I've learned
a lot from you
and I've listened
to your words and
your values
and your beliefs...
have shone
through in this interview
and really just so grateful
that you could spend this
time with us.
And thank you Qwuy’um’aat for being
an amazing co-host.
And the conversation
was wonderful.
I really appreciate it.
I want to build on
that as well.
And thank you for sharing
space with us today.
It's through conversations
like this we're able
to honour connections
and stories and resilience
of our communities.
I know I'm able to say that
like these teaching
also kind of
be carry forward and inform
my practice of respect
reciprocity and strength
and humble leadership. So
hay cxʷ q̓ə Brenda
and thank you so much.
Hay cxʷ q̓ə
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