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The HeadRush Podcast with Paul Frase and Corey Berry takes you inside the reality of Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy (CTE) through the lens of football and rodeo. With firsthand experience in two of the most punishing sports, Paul and Corey share their stories, the lasting effects of head trauma, and the fight for awareness and support.
Paul Frase (00:18)
Welcome to the Head Rush podcast. I'm Paul Fraze and I played 11 years in the NFL and our co-host Corey Perry actually rode professional rodeo for nine years and I know he says nine years is probably an average but I bet it's more than the average. But what we do at the Head Rush podcast, we talk about everything related to brain trauma
and brain health and wellness. We talk about TES, Traumatic Encephalopathy Syndrome, and that's the closest you can be diagnosed to CTE while you are still alive. And we focus on traumatic brain injuries sustained through repeated head impacts, RHI, and repeated blast exposure, RBE for men and women who serve in the armed forces. We talk about Traumatic Encephalopathy Syndrome. We talk about how
Traumatic brain injuries can and will cause mental health issues such as depression addiction Lack of executive function memory loss even suicide ideation as well as degenerative neurological issues our mantra is how to cope and find hope and we focus our energy on finding therapies and sharing hope through Raising our education and by raising awareness Corey
Good to see you.
Corey Berry (01:45)
Holy cow, Paul. Good to see you too. I ain't seen you in a couple weeks. Where you been?
Paul Frase (01:52)
It's, it's, I've been very, very busy in the lovely Florida sun, Not a cloud in the sky about four days in a row.
Corey Berry (02:00)
Well...
Well, were you in the Red... you were in the Redwoods before you came here, so I've seen you since the Redwoods, but not after the Redwoods.
Paul Frase (02:11)
Not
the Redwoods, you were very quick to correct me on that. It was the Sequoia National Forest. And that was pretty, that was pretty, I will tell you it was more impressive than I thought it would be. It was pretty darn cool. John Muir, Muir, I remember, you know.
I always likened him to Henry David Thoreau for you California kids. Who's that Henry David Thoreau from Walden Pond? And I'm like, who's that John Muir from the Muir Woods? what was the organization he actually founded? The Sierra Nevada something something.
Corey Berry (03:01)
Yeah, we're not gonna go there. I don't want to get political.
Paul Frase (03:08)
Nothing political about nature. It was God's country, that's for sure. Especially all the farming students here. yeah.
Corey Berry (03:15)
definitely God's country.
Definitely,
definitely God's country. But hey, Paul.
Paul Frase (03:23)
Well
Cory, yeah.
Corey Berry (03:25)
There's many people out there on social media and they're talking about TBI. There are a few bringing awareness and hope through foundations. We want to highlight just a few this episode and talk about their important roles in the world of repeated head impacts and repeated blast exposures.
Paul Frase (03:35)
Mm-hmm.
Corey Berry (03:53)
I'm going to bring up the first foundation. The first foundation is the Mac Parkman Foundation, mpfact.org by Bruce and Perry Parkman.
Me and Paul has been to their summit. We have met with them. We have been around them. They are very great people. Their mission, the Mac apartment is committed to raising awareness on impact of repeated head impacts and repeated blast exposure. Have on the brain and mental health of children, athletes and veterans. We aim to improve
Paul Frase (04:11)
and
Okay.
Corey Berry (04:39)
societal brain health by promoting education, early diagnosis and innovative treatments to reduce and mitigate the long-term effects of some concussive trauma to include mental illness
and suicidality while promoting brain health as a priority for medical.
as well as psychological education and care. Through advocacy and community engagement with parental, scientific, medical, psychological, sports, and legislation communities, as well as a nonprofit organization focused on brain and mental health, we strive to create a safer environment in sports and military service
Paul Frase (05:08)
Okay. Okay.
Corey Berry (05:36)
improving treatment for those athletes and veterans affected to ensure the healthier future for all. So all of our fans out there, I'm going to tell you right now, Paul writes this and then big money words I have a hard time with and I've always had a hard time with them my whole life. I don't have the education of that. What do they call that? a university.
Paul Frase (06:03)
You're a very smart cowboy and that was a copy and paste off the Mac Parkman Foundation's website, their mission statement. I wanted to get a taste of their mission statement and you did great reading it. We might not read
all the paragraphs of the ensuing mission statements but they, man, I got to meet them at their first annual work with repeated head impacts and it was two and a half years ago or so and it was in Tampa and our own Dr. Gordon was actually going to be speaking there.
And it was only three and a half, four hours from my house. And I'm like, I gotta go see Dr. Gordon. And all of a sudden I looked at the program and I see Anne McKee's gonna be there. And I had never met Anne McKee. obviously, of course Anne McKee is one of the touted, probably one or two or three in the world for neuropathology, especially when it comes to CTE and she works with Boston University.
and the gang up there and they have a very important foundation that they've been doing so much research through and with up at Boston University. anyway, I went to see Dr. Gordon, I went to Stock in McKee and I met some wonderful people, Bruce and Perry Parkman and their whole team. it is, we're gonna, disclaimer, we're
going to be talking about suicide on this issue. But basically, Mack Parkman was their son at 17 years old. He took his own life. Bruce Parkman and Perry Parkman took it upon themselves. They started understanding or hearing about
this thing called CTE and they wanted to know what repeated head impacts are all about, especially for youth. And man, they have carried the torch. How many things have they done, Corey? I know he's been trying to work with the legislation. I know another group, the RL3,
group that we're going to talk about later, he teamed up with them and they were trying to get, was it signed consent information through the, right, through Florida. So what would that mean through the schools? So that meant that the parents and the student
Corey Berry (08:49)
Yeah, sign consent.
through the schools.
What they were looking to do is
have, right, it's a signed consent form that the parents and the student would have to sign. Along with that, they have an RHI day, a repeated head impact day, and then they also would require a CTE day where you're educating the students and the parents on both issues. And I believe they got turned down.
Paul Frase (09:20)
Mm-hmm.
Corey Berry (09:31)
I can't see why. I mean, when you got Ray Lewis at...
Paul Frase (09:32)
Yeah, at this time,
I don't.
Yeah, I think it's just it was probably the first time it was introduced and there were a thousand things on the docket and they got pushed to the side. But it is very important and maybe we can get more involved next year when they bring when they bring the bill up again. You know, I'm sure they're going to bring it up again and again and again until they get it signed off and it becomes mandatory for these parents to
sign a consent form. that's the least these parents could do to educate themselves on what is happening to their kids that are experiencing repeated head impacts. And quite frankly, the Mac Parkman Foundation, Mac Parkman, 17 years old, took his own life. And it was probably due to repeated head impacts. He was a 10-month
year sports, concussive sports player, and he never gave his brain a chance to heal from concussions and all that stuff. And they also sponsored a paper, research of 162 kids, 30, 30 and under, and they found some astounding statistics of kids
having brain damage, having mental health issues. So, the Mack Parkman Foundation, that's what they do. They've made it their job to bring awareness to what happens mainly to the youth and the veterans for repeated head impacts and repeated blast exposures.
What do you think, Kiori? mean, they do, he does a lot. He's done a lot in Washington DC.
Corey Berry (11:37)
Well, it-
state of Florida and everywhere. And you also got to realize that Bruce Parkman has been on our podcast twice. We've had Perry Parkman on our podcast once. Bruce Parkman himself is an 18 year veteran of the United States military. He was a special force operator and a green beret.
So you know he's dealing with his own demons and for him to...
Exactly. mean, he's and plus a rugby player. He was a semi pro rugby player. And so you look at all of that, but I would go back if you guys could and look at the episode where I had Bruce and Perry on, because I'll tell you what, I love Bruce Parkman. Absolutely love Bruce. He is so smart, so educated, so well informed.
blows me away on the smarts of a special force operator on this, but with everything he does and how busy he is, man, he's just awesome. But I'll tell you what, go back and listen to the one where his wife was on with us. Perry Parkman, talking about her son and what we didn't know. And God, it just tore my heartstrings listening to her tell her story and talk to us.
And I love them both very much. They're very, very good people.
Paul Frase (13:28)
And they actually came on their second annual event in Tampa.
And Cory got on a plane with his wife Susan and Crystal, his therapist, and they were able to get over from DFW to Tampa and sit through three or two eight-hour days of lectures. And it was, we heard a lot of great doctors speak out about repeated head impacts. We heard
from neurologists. We heard from Lee Steinberg, the great agent, the NFL agent, probably one of the most lucrative agents in the history of the NFL. I was minimum wage for a few years, Corey. No, I couldn't have paid his bills. No.
Corey Berry (14:18)
Was he your agent?
Paul Frase (14:33)
So he might have been our, I think he was Ken O'Brien. He might have let me wash his car. But I think one of the quarterbacks on our team, Ken O'Brien might have employed him. I don't know. I don't know, but yeah. Yeah, yeah. Troy Aikman, Steve Young. Was he Alex Smith's agent too?
Corey Berry (14:34)
Well you could have washed his car.
Brett Fire Employee,
Right. And who else did we just talk?
I'm sure he was Alex. mean, yeah. And so, I mean, but you look at it, Lee Steinberg, you had Mark Gordon, you had Dr. James Kelly. I mean, the list was just phenomenal and such an eye opener for Malar, who just downloaded and
Paul Frase (15:06)
Probably.
We had Trevor, Trevor,
Trevor Rular from Ambio.
Corey Berry (15:27)
from Mambia who just downloaded. I mean, it was just a tremendous thing. And the great thing is the third annual is coming up in September. They got the date. So if you go to the Mac Parkman Foundation website, their dates are on there. And please, if you can get to that one, get to it. It's a great, great seminar.
Paul Frase (15:39)
Mm-hmm.
And it's...
A lot of good people, good speakers and good people to network with in this space. So, and there's a lot of modalities that Bruce invites to share. well, so what one group we also met, I met at the first, I've been to both of the Matt Parkman Foundation events.
the first two and the first one two and a half years ago or so I met a group Patrick Risha CTE Awareness Foundation and Karen and Doug Siegel. You got the stopcte.org right there on Corey's hat. What a pleasure and an honor it was to meet
Karen and Doug, had, we affectionately call them kind of the godfather and godmother or godfather or whatever you want to call it of the CTE awareness, but they have really shifted their focus along with Mac Parkman Foundation and Bruce and Perry Parkman on repeated head impacts and repeated blast exposures because that
is what the research is telling us causes these long-term effects of TES and possible CTE and probable CTE. But they have done, they've been bringing awareness to the world about, they would have been raising
awareness about CTE and repeated head and backs for about 12 years, maybe close to 13 years. The time is flying and they've been involved with legislation. They've been involved with, Corey, you actually used, didn't Karen develop that doctor's questionnaire when you go in and see an anesthesiologist or any type of doctor that
Corey Berry (18:07)
Yes.
No,
no, no, no, no, No, what, no, no, no. What Karen did is she built a form that you can download and it helps you explain all your symptoms, helps you get through everything. So when you go and see your neurologist, you got a, like a show and tell and something to explain what's going on with you when you go see them.
Paul Frase (18:12)
You know how to. No.
Corey Berry (18:40)
What you were talking about is what my therapist Christine did. And that's the anesthesiologist where when I go under, they put a note on the door saying, you know, no more than two people over stimulation, probable CTE, yada, yada, yada. But no, Patrick Krisha, their medical form is for something you can take in with the doctor and go through it and
help you guys have that conversation because we all know, well, Paul, you don't know, you don't see a neurologist enough, but when we go in and see a neurologist, we forget things. We have to write things down. We have to take notes. We don't remember everything to tell them where this form allows, gives you some ways to help you get that conversation through. And,
Paul Frase (19:37)
Hmm
Corey Berry (19:38)
Man, I'd tell anybody, go to stopcte.org and download that form when you go see your neurologist. And the other thing about seeing your neurologist is ask them questions. You're interviewing them just like they're interviewing you. You know, if you go see Dr. Moron versus Dr. Ketser, you know, Dr. Moron and
I don't know who Dr. Moron is. I'm just saying Dr. Moron don't know nothing about repeated head impacts, don't know about the symptoms, don't know about the tyo-l-in, doesn't know nothing about it. And then you go see a neurologist like Dr. Victor Cazor, who we gotta get back on. I'm gonna try to get him on June 19th. And
Paul Frase (20:11)
.
Corey Berry (20:35)
Where was I going? with someone that goes to the seminars, learns, educates himself, talks with Ann McKee, knows all of that, actually talks with my other neurologist, Jeremy Tanner, who's part of the CTE Evaluation Center here in Texas. So get to the right doctors that understand, because if you think every neurologist knows about this, they're not even taught this.
They may start having like a paragraph in school now, but it's not a forefront. Thank you, NFL, not for long.
Paul Frase (21:19)
One of the cool things is, yeah, yeah, one of the cool things is simply by you going to interview a therapist and telling her how she was going to care for you,
and she took on the challenge because she knew you're tight, you cowboy badasses. But you actually taught her a lot and she changed her intake form to include repeated head impacts. Have you ever had a traumatic brain injury? And that was not one of her intake questions originally.
And she was dealing with all sorts of depression and anxiety and addiction and this and that. and that, and repeated head impacts.
Corey Berry (22:14)
repeated blast exposure
for the vets. mean, she's, I mean, very, very smart. And I'll tell you what, Karen and Doug Siegel, they sponsor us hugely. We love them. I tell you what, you never mess with a woman that's been hurt. She lost her son. And I tell you what, that pissed her off.
Paul Frase (22:18)
Yeah, yeah.
Mmm.
Corey Berry (22:44)
but then you add the red hair to it. She lit this world up. You know, and Doug is right there with her every step of the way and Doug is right there, but Karen and Doug, man, they are just suspects. And they work so close with Mac Parkman and legislation.
Paul Frase (22:52)
Yeah, she has. So we didn't.
So, super.
Yeah, and she would really, we did not read the mission statement yet, so I want to go ahead and read their mission statement. It's the Patrick Risha CTE Awareness Foundation. Stopcte.org. The Patrick Risha CTE Awareness Foundation is a nonprofit volunteer-based organization. It was created in Patrick's memory.
to help prevent CTE in future athletes and military service members to provide a resource for understanding the disease, how it is caused and how to stop it. they've been involved with, again, creating doctoring intake notes or visitation to your doctors, legislation, you name it. They've been working tirelessly.
on behalf of their late son's memory. Just top-notch people, salt of the earth, wonderful, lovely people, and we're just proud to call them friends and acquaintances. So, now...
Corey Berry (24:26)
Family.
Family.
They are family. Family.
Paul Frase (24:31)
Family. They are family.
Yes, they are so.
Corey Berry (24:37)
And so now let's
see if I can get, let's go see if I can get my big brother in trouble.
My big brother from another Paul phrase. I'm to see if I can get you in trouble with mama Karen. Patrick went to Dartmouth, right? What is the mascot at Dartmouth Stadium?
Paul Frase (24:57)
Yeah.
It's like a wildcat or something. No, that's the University of New Hampshire. It's not a duck. It's a leprechaun. I don't know. I can't remember. I went there two summers ago. I remember I stopped at, was that last summer? Yeah, I was taking my dad up to the hospital, to Dartmouth-Hitchcock.
Corey Berry (25:22)
You were there last summer!
Yeah!
Paul Frase (25:32)
And I stopped at Dartmouth at the stadium and I had never been there before. And we did a little video in remembrance of Patrick. what was their mascot? Are you looking it up?
Corey Berry (25:47)
No, I'm waiting to get my big brother in trouble.
Paul Frase (25:53)
gosh, you okay. All right. Dartmouth.
mascot.
Corey Berry (26:06)
The cake!
Paul Frase (26:06)
It does not
have an official mascot. It's popular, widely recognized. Unofficial mascot is KD the Keg. Like a keg? No, this is an Ivy League school. They don't drink. They don't drink and party at an Ivy League school.
Corey Berry (26:11)
The keg!
Yup!
Paul Frase (26:29)
That's funny, you knew that, Corey. You're smart, you're smarter than the average cowboy. Just kidding. Wow. All right.
Corey Berry (26:35)
Yeah.
Well, I looked it up earlier because
I wanted to see if you knew it, but yeah, I know they don't have an official mascot. They're unofficial mascot is keggy the keg and they're not even probably rated. I remember when I went to college, what was it? it. I think it was UCLA or Stanford, in Playboy magazine got nominated the number one party college.
Paul Frase (26:54)
Unable.
Corey Berry (27:09)
for that year.
Paul Frase (27:11)
Oh, yeah, know the University of New Hampshire was in the top 10 for many, years. My brother used to go there.
Corey Berry (27:15)
So.
Did you help them
get there?
Paul Frase (27:27)
No, my brother used to go there for a year. So anyway, all right.
Corey Berry (27:34)
And so our next
foundation is another close friend of ours and a good acquaintance is the concussion and CTE foundation Formerly known as concussion legacy foundation they change your name And now they're the concussion and CTE foundation Concussion legacy foundation. I already said it
Paul Frase (27:50)
and formerly known as
No, they were named two, they changed their name four times, so yes. I couldn't remember what they started out as.
Corey Berry (27:58)
and they were founded
I
couldn't tell you.
Paul Frase (28:13)
Yeah, but they they are locked in.
Corey Berry (28:14)
But this time they changed...
Right, this time they changed it because they wanted to add CTE and Concussion to their name so people understand that they do both. And Chris Nowinski and Dr. Robert Cantu are the founders of Concussion and CTE. Man, I wonder if we can just go C and C Foundation, how's that? Concussion and CTE foundation.
Paul Frase (28:40)
And Chris.
for Chris.
Corey Berry (28:47)
We'll call it the CNC.
Paul Frase (28:51)
Yeah, and Chris Nowinski is actually a PhD as well. Dr. Chris Nowinski. I learned that it's proper to say doctor to a PhD the first time and then you can actually call them by their first name after. But he's a doctor of neurology, right? And obviously Dr. Cantu and we, yeah.
Corey Berry (29:12)
Yes. I don't think I could call Dr.
Cates or Victor. And I've known him for a few years now. I don't think I could walk up to Dr. Cates and go, hey Victor, how's it going?
Paul Frase (29:20)
Yeah,
you're very polite to women, but you could care less about men. You call your neurologist, Kate Sir, hey Kate Sir, hey Kate, okay. I guess that's normal in Texas, calling your neurologist by their last name or no?
Corey Berry (29:42)
No, I just pay him so
I can call him whatever I want.
Paul Frase (29:50)
right,
Corey Berry (29:54)
so the concussion and CTE foundation founded by Dr. Robert Cantu and Dr. Chris Lewinsky to support athletes, veterans, and all affected by concussions and CTE to promote smarter sports and safer athletes through education, innovation, and in CTE through prevention and research. The concussion and CTE foundation is a proud supporter
and collaborator with the Boston CTE Center. They also, man, they do, their helpline is astronomical.
Paul Frase (30:31)
That's a.
So it's the Boston University, Boston University CTE Center. And yes, Corey, yeah, we met on one of their helplines, right?
Corey Berry (30:37)
You go to their help.
Right. Well, we met on their support group, but their helpline, you can call them. They got a list of neurologists, list of therapists. They got support groups, concussed moms, support group for caregivers. It's not just about CTE and concussion and the patients. It's also about their families, the loved ones. And one of the
people that my wife is on with is a Harvard grad that she's just phenomenal with the caregivers. And I really gotta say, know, CNC Foundation, Concussion and CTE Foundation, man, they are probably the largest foundation in this network.
of brain health and CTE and concussions. Wouldn't you, Paul?
Paul Frase (31:51)
Yeah, absolutely. mean, Chris has been at this for almost 30 years, probably 25, 26 years. And basically,
i'm i'm glad i know because when i was going through my stuff in my late forties he actually was involved with the clinical trial and by boston university and boston when when they say the concussion and ct e foundation is a proud supporter and collaborator with the boston university ct center there's been a number of clinical trials through the years that have gone through boston university and
Anne McKee is one of the, she's a lead neuropathologist. You've got Bob Stern has been on some of the studies, Dr. Bob Stern and all of the, a lot of the major research for CTE, the tallyology of CTE, a lot of this science and a lot of these medical journals and peer reviewed.
medical journals have come out of Boston University. I remember when I was involved with one of their first clinical trials, trying to find a biomarker for CTE, they were checking how, they literally did a spinal puncture, a lumbar puncture, and they took the spinal fluid out and they tested how much tau protein was in the base of the skull, mean, base of the spinal column as opposed to
up at the brain. They knew it's just fascinating how this science has advanced to the point it is now. And they're still discovering. There's still so much to discover. And Chris has been pushing this science and pushing this foundation for a long time. And he's been
He's been ostracized, he's been booed off stage or tried to have the hook off stage. And I don't know how many people, but he was probably used to it. What was his history, Corey? He went from Harvard being a defensive lineman into graduating from Harvard. And then he decided, he was in a financial market, but he decided to get into wrestling. What was his name again as a wrestler?
Corey Berry (34:19)
Chris Harvard. Chris Harvard.
Paul Frase (34:22)
Chris
Harvard. I saw him a couple times and he would talk to the audience like, I know that you're not smart enough to read books or something like that. He would use his Harvard, his Harvard preppy, like you like all the preppy people that you met in Rhode Island, right? But that wasn't the Kennedys.
Corey Berry (34:39)
Yeah.
Right, exactly.
Paul Frase (34:49)
Yeah, you had Joey and Vinny and Bobby and Paulie.
Corey Berry (34:50)
Nope. The candidates are up
in your neck in the woods.
Paul Frase (34:54)
gosh.
Corey Berry (34:55)
Kennedys are up
in your neck of the woods. There ain't enough people in Rhode Island to know anybody.
Paul Frase (34:58)
Yeah, Mark, Mark.
Yeah, Marblehead and some of the beautiful places. But Newport, Rhode Island was pretty. All right, so do we have there, did you already tell their mission statement pretty much? Yeah. Yep, you did.
Corey Berry (35:23)
Yes.
And then, and also go to their helpline. And yeah, I think it's concussion and cte.org forward slash helpline. and man, they'll get you all the contacts you need. Great people. we deal with Tyler a lot and Tyler's just awesome in the support groups for us that are suspected CTE.
And I just,
Paul Frase (35:53)
Tyler Ambrow
Corey Berry (35:54)
can't say enough about them. Tyler Ambrose, we've had Tyler on our podcast twice. We've had Krzysztof Winski, Dr. Krzysztof Winski on our podcast. And so, you know, these are people that we, that really know what they're doing and talking about. our next one, Paul, I'll let you talk about him. The other side of the pond. Who are they?
Paul Frase (36:07)
Right.
Well, okay, the other side of the pond. gonna go and we're gonna switch countries and we're gonna switch sports and we're gonna talk about a little rugby and a marshaling CTE. Our friends Rich Coates and Roy Heaney founded a CTE awareness
foundation over in England and there they both played some New Zealand rugby. They both played some of the top Roy Heaney was actually on a couple of the top, top tier, top, top tier rugby teams in the world. And Rich played 30 years in the club leagues and then big, big time rugby. So
They and they're in a middle. So let's see there. Do we have their? Well, their their website is marshaling hyphen CTE dot co dot UK. And they have a they bring a lot of awareness and raise a lot of they support. They try to.
They actually support some of the guys players over there with some of the modalities that we talked about I think they would the rich coach has spoken very highly of neurofeedback I Think they're getting good results from red light therapy as well. Is that correct Corey?
Corey Berry (38:14)
Yeah, they're getting real good results from neurofeedback and red light therapy. you know, Roy Heaney here step back a little bit to be with family a little bit more and not be so involved, but rich coats. know they're talking about even starting up a podcast over there in the UK and doing all of that. The great outfit.
They're on Facebook, they're on Instagram, they're on all your social medias, LinkedIn, just like us. And they are phenomenal people. We had them on our podcast. And I tell you what, some very smart, smart people when it comes to this disease, Rich Coates, Roy Heaney are both sufferers like Paul and I, and Rich's wife, Jennifer, is just outstanding, just like my wife, Susan.
And and and Galen's there for you, but you don't have the bad days like me and rich have. And so with that. Right, and so I got to give a shout out to Jennifer Coats, who's a big part of the foundation and rich and Roy. Great. If you're over in the United Kingdom, man, go look them up.
Paul Frase (39:11)
Right.
Not as bad, no.
Corey Berry (39:37)
They got tons of help for you over there. and, just, I can't say enough about Marshall and CTE.
Paul Frase (39:49)
Yeah, they do a great job. They actually have teamed up with the Concussion and CTE Foundation over in Europe as well. think over in London they have some connections through that organization. They're just fighting the good fight. actually, the rugby league is right in the middle of litigation.
I say right in the middle, but they've been going on for five or six years, I think, which is about how many years the NFL litigation dragged on. That's for sure. But good people over there get in touch with them, especially if you're from across the pond, you get involved with them. They try to raise awareness and funds so they can actually help, again, some players with
modalities and treatments like the neurofeedback and the red light therapy. So reach out to them.
Corey Berry (40:53)
And our next one, you know, we actually, we actually got to meet her at Tampa at the Mack Parkman Foundation. She was a speaker. And after she spoke, said, man, I got to have you on our podcast. I got to get you on. You're just, you're all there. And we're talking about Tiana Wimberley. she is Ray Lewis's former and co-founder.
Paul Frase (40:54)
Corey.
Corey Berry (41:24)
with Ray Lewis of the RL3.
Paul Frase (41:25)
And the mother and the mother
Corey Berry (41:32)
of the RL3foundation.com and they started their foundation because of the mother of Ray Ray and Ray Lewis. Ray Ray ended up having some issues when he passed away, they sent the brain in and he was diagnosed with CTE. This is Ray Lewis's son Ray Ray we're talking about, not Ray Lewis, Ray Ray. And so
Ray Lewis and Tiana, they got together and started the RL3. They're big shindigs coming up in June too. And you can look them up on
Paul Frase (42:11)
I believe it. I believe they do it in.
Corey Berry (42:17)
Orlando
Paul Frase (42:19)
Yeah, in Orlando and Kissimmee. Yup, they're right there in Mickey Mouse Town, but they do a lot of great stuff. They have like, I think it's like a two or three day event. They have music, have bands, have games, and they raise a lot of awareness and a lot of funds. Right? Right, exactly. And I believe, I'm sure Ray Lewis has a bunch of...
Corey Berry (42:39)
Flag football.
Paul Frase (42:48)
a bunch of former teammates out there, know, championing the cause.
They, so let's say they moved the needle in such a short time, they tragically lost their son to suicide and it was later determined a biopatopsy to be CTE as Corey mentioned. they just do, it's all about, and Ray Ray Ray, the third, was the best of the best. He was, was,
inclusive, he helped people, he helped friends, he always had a smile on his face. go back and watch the episode that we had Tiana Wimberley on. And again, Tiana and Ray Lewis met at the University of Miami and they had three children together. And Ray Ray was he the first or the middle child? I'm not sure.
Corey Berry (43:59)
think he was Ray Lewis the third, so he's got to be the first. And you look at it, and here's another one just like Patrick Grisha never played professional football, just like Mac Parkman never went to college. And just like Ray Ray, he went to college and was semi-pro, but never went
Paul Frase (43:59)
But.
Probably the first child, yeah.
Corey Berry (44:28)
to the NFL.
Paul Frase (44:31)
Right. And there.
Corey Berry (44:31)
So out of all of
these foundations, we're looking at three now that never went to the Pro League.
Paul Frase (44:41)
Mm-hmm and interestingly Obviously Tiana and Ray have two two more boys together and they were actually playing one plate for our Semi-pro football or professionally over in Europe, I believe but and
Corey Berry (45:03)
Right, and another
one's playing in Wyoming.
Paul Frase (45:08)
Okay. And they actually, the one in Europe was actually the head trauma, repeated head impacts are more of a thing in the NFL and they've started hitting way, way, way less in practice. And
Tiana's son was over there in Europe and the coach, were just trying, they were just getting heated up and they were hitting every day. And, their, their son actually bowed out of a couple and told, told actually was very vocal to the coaches and said, Hey, you know, this, this is a lot of repeated, needless repeated head impacts. We've got to figure out how to practice smarter and safer. So.
Yeah, they're all doing their advocacy in their way after losing their brother and son.
Corey Berry (46:16)
Right. And so, yeah, and they were partnered up with TopCTE.org and the Mac Parkman Foundation for that legislation in Florida. They were working with the Mac Parkman together on that legislation to bring the informed consent.
Paul Frase (46:16)
So.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Right.
Corey Berry (46:41)
And so they're they're
doing great things over there. And I would say go to RL3foundation.org. And look them up. I think their event. Let me see if I can find it real quick.
Yep, they're coming back in June. I'm not seeing the dates. I know it's in June, but they'll be in Orlando.
Paul Frase (47:14)
Yeah.
June 5th, Friday, June 5th, 2026, TTE and mental health sneaker ball. Saturday, June 6th, Ray's Kids Football Camp and balling out. And then Sunday, June 7th is the Motivation Music Fest. So they're doing it in motivation weekend to motivate, educate, support, encourage.
uplift and effect change in the community. Motivation Weekend will include the following events, the 5th, 6th, and 7th. And where is that? I believe it's in Kissimmee, Florida.
But go check it out on their website. And if you are in their area, donate, go, support, and they do great work. They do great work.
Corey Berry (48:15)
Thank you.
Paul Frase (48:24)
Corey, I was.
Corey Berry (48:26)
So
I think our next one, let's talk about what's the next big foundation that is coming up. that's right. It's the Head Rush Foundation.
Paul Frase (48:37)
Wow.
I was gonna throw a couple of your...
You're like Cowboys helping Cowboys. They've been, I love what they say about their mission. love it. the third paragraph, says, CHC Cowboys helping Cowboys is not a fancy charity and well-paid executives, but simply a grassroots effort from real rodeo athletes and community giving.
Corey Berry (48:57)
Dave Samsel?
Yeah, Dave Samsel.
Paul Frase (49:19)
hand up to support their fellow cowboy and competitor in need and they actually help you guys sustain a lot of injuries and they last long after your career and there's extensive medical needs sometimes in the rodeo world and the cowboys helping cowboys that's what they do they they want to they want to be involved with giving getting help to guys that need it.
Guys and gals, I'm sure.
and but
Corey Berry (49:53)
Well, yeah, is the
date.
Dave Samsel is the one that started Cowboys helping Cowboys. They just had their benefit auction down here at Fort Worth at Tannehill Saloon. They're having their golf tournament, their charity tournament this weekend. And you guys got to realize something, Dave Samsel was a great bull rider in his time.
For the people that don't know, rodeo athletes, we don't cure sick days or vacation days. We don't have team doctors. We don't have. Teen therapists. We don't have none of that. We got the justice cowboy crisis fund and we got organizations like cowboy helping cowboys. Dave Samsel. I've talked with him several times and yes, he helps people out.
in the rodeo world with their brain health and
Paul Frase (50:59)
Mm.
Corey Berry (51:01)
terrific god-fearing you know they're very western driven and they're there to help the cowboys and a man like dave samsel helping cowboys you know you're going to get the right help and they're not trying to big and be big and fancy they're very grassroots very low-key
Donnie gay really supports them. A lot of people really support them. They are a great foundation. and I tell you what, for someone in the cowboy world, I haven't asked them for help. because I feel like the ones going down the road need it now. Let, let the ones that
Paul Frase (51:38)
Okay.
Corey Berry (51:54)
When you get hurt and you have to go home and you make your living rodeoing, in the
NFL you still get paid. You may not get all your bonuses. You may not get everything, but you still get your league minimum or whatever. I don't know how your contract's written. But Cowboys, if you don't win place or show or win money, you don't make a dollar. And the rodeo associations, when you get hurt,
They're not there saying, well, let me send you this. Let me send you this. Let me know you're on your own. so organizations like cowboy helping cowboys with things, Hansel, dude, my hats off to them all day long. Dave's great folk. And, I just wish the best for.
Paul Frase (52:25)
huh.
Yeah, that's awesome. Awesome work that they do. Yes, you had mentioned the Headbrush Foundation. And we have a lot of lofty goals. We have a lot of lofty goals, but first and foremost, we want to bring much needed awareness and help to those in need.
Corey Berry (52:54)
What is that?
Paul Frase (53:09)
We're working on our intake forms and our grants and so on and so forth, but we're going to be working with veterans with repeated blast exposures. We're going to be working with people that deal with traumatic brain injury. We're probably going to focus on repeated head impacts, but as we grow and grow and grow, I don't think we're going to, it's going to be hard.
It's going to be very hard to turn people away. We're going to work with athletes, former athletes. right now we're going to be testing and researching all we can about modalities and treatments. Because let's face it, Corey, I know you had a conversation with Bruce Parkman and they said they actually got repeated blast exposures to be recognized by the VA.
What treatments do they give you? Did they give you neurofeedback and red light therapy and TMS? Or did they award the veterans? What do you say?
Corey Berry (54:28)
I'm sorry I got lost there for a moment. What's this?
Paul Frase (54:30)
Well,
but Bruce Parkman said that the VA actually recognizes repeated blast exposures as a diagnosis basically, but he could only get, the three things he could only get were what.
Corey Berry (54:44)
Right.
drugs, drugs, and maybe yoga.
Paul Frase (54:57)
And that was it. So they're not even accepting things like neurofeedback or... and we actually just learned from Peter from VLight that the red light, the photobiomodulation, the red light therapy, that was an actual clinical trial peer-reviewed paper from the BYU football team.
Corey Berry (55:00)
And that was it.
Paul Frase (55:26)
real science, that's big news. that's, we know that red light therapy can be a very effective therapy for some people. So we're in the middle of testing that out ourselves, not me, but.
Corey Berry (55:50)
I am. I'm on my second week and we are working with Peter to help people get a discount. And once we get all the particulars and get everything figured out, we will be offering V-Lite discount to get your own red light therapy. And Paul, you're working with Dr. Larry Carr at Bring Them Young and working with him to maybe help
Paul Frase (55:52)
the
Corey Berry (56:19)
the NFL players and how's that? Have you gotten any further than talking to say, have you talked to my gel or got any further with that?
Paul Frase (56:22)
Yeah, there's.
No, uh, Ms. Mizelle, Mizelle is just getting on her feet from her trip to Europe and I'll go, I'm going to be speaking with her hopefully tomorrow. And, uh, and, uh, yeah, there, there's a possibility that since photo or blue light therapy is recognized by as Cigna as a therapy, um, red light therapy is very similar and it could, uh, we could actually possibly
coded appropriately. It diminishes inflammation and that's huge in any NFL player, regardless if it's your head or trauma to any of your joints or anything like that. we need, we're working on getting a doctor's order and getting a diagnosis so we can actually put this to work. we're, and again, they have
peer-reviewed published papers, medical journals that have just really wonderful, positive, robust, effective. They show a robust effectiveness in the treatment with the red light therapy. So, no, so that's our kind of starting point, getting some therapies to people that need them. But our huge, massive goal,
And Corey is teaching me to start at the top, but Corey, do you want to talk about the retreat, Neurological Retreat Center?
Corey Berry (58:11)
Yes, well, we're looking at doing and this is years out unless we get some great donors. Right now, let's get donors to where we can just start helping others and maybe get them some red light therapy, maybe get them on the Millennium Health, help our veterans get on the Millennium Health, help other young athletes, maybe help get some red light therapy to the high schools.
Paul Frase (58:24)
Hmm.
Corey Berry (58:42)
or whatever we can do to help with brain health. our ultimate goal is like a neuro retreat here in Texas where we can offer red light therapy. We can offer cold plunge. We can offer hyperbaric. We can offer neurologists. We can, and you come here and you learn your diet and I'm going to call it the Nicola Duke, Dr. Raymond diet, the 20 super foods.
Paul Frase (58:41)
Mmm. Mmm. Right.
Ha
ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Corey Berry (59:11)
You come here,
you get on that, and you start changing everything up. You're learning how to eat, right? Get healthy, and you're working on your brain. Get some vestibular therapy, getting everything we can to maybe start getting the neurons and the mitochondria and everything working in your brain a little bit. And maybe reduce your symptoms and maybe move you forward.
Paul Frase (59:20)
Right.
Corey Berry (59:41)
And maybe with this big IBGAIN push, maybe in two years when it gets approved, we might offer IBGAIN, who knows. But right now that's our ultimate, ultimate goal is to offer things that insurance don't cover. And maybe for our veterans and for young athletes or stuff, if we get the donor pool and we start climbing in the donor pool,
Paul Frase (59:50)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Corey Berry (1:00:11)
We can send people to AMBO in Tijuana while we're waiting for all the research and everything. And you know, this is what we want to do is me and Paul August 2nd, we're flying out of Dallas and we're going to Tijuana and we're going to take partake and be part of the journey. But this is what we want to do is help others like we're trying to help us.
Paul right now is on a big mental health kick for food, food cure all, food, everything.
Paul Frase (1:00:50)
Food, food, food
is the medicine, so, but,
Corey Berry (1:00:56)
Right.
Paul Frase (1:01:00)
Yeah, so food is our medicine, but there are sometimes the repeated head impacts have caused enough damage where we need help with our vitamin D, we need help with our omega-3s, we need help in possible supplementation.
You know that we're going to we're going to be looking at all of that, just like our doctor of psychiatry, Myzel DeMaio, who's on the board of the Heteros Foundation. You know, she talks about precision psychiatry and she talks about genetics. talks about, you know, genetics as simple as MTHFR and BDNF and neuroplasticity and this and then.
And then she talks about taking blood tests and knowing where your body is at, what deficiencies they're dealing with. And part of that is the, so her program's called the BrainWell program, but she also has teamed up with Dr. Corden at Millennium Health Centers and she does the Millennium Health Hormone.
Assays the 28 or a list of 28 hormones and neuro steroids and neuroactive steroids and all that stuff that's created on our body so man, we're gonna you know, the big goal is to You know really be able to bring people in and help them, you know on site That's that's a long ways off. We know but originally initially we want to start getting
people help that need it. So that's where we're at, Cory and Barry.
Corey Berry (1:02:52)
Right.
Yes, sir. And we've already got a couple of donations, little ones, but so we're growing. So please donate, please help. We're working on building the website. We're working on getting everything going. And you can go to our Facebook page. You can go to all of them and you'll see a post or something about a donor box or PayPal or whatever it is. I don't know. That's our
That's our Chris Wagner from Redbird Media thing. And I want to give a big shout out to Chris Wagner at Redbird Media. He's really stepped up. We're growing leaps and bounds. We were talking today and we already since April 1st, I think have had like 300 downloads.
just in our audio platforms alone. And I'll tell you what, couldn't have done all of this with me doing the social media that I did for a year. I'm very happy that Chris Wagner came on. And if you go to Redbird Media and you need some SEO work, talk to Chris Wagner at Redbird Media.
Paul Frase (1:03:56)
And we're.
And Cory, you remember Chris is a very smart Texan because he now resides in New Hampshire up there and he loves the state of New Hampshire. So, and you were busting chops about New Hampshire.
Corey Berry (1:04:33)
Well, all five of you.
All five of you in New Hampshire can enjoy it.
Paul Frase (1:04:42)
You're funny. You're a funny man. Alright, please like, subscribe, share, post whatever you can do to help us with the algorithms and help us bring awareness to the repeated head impacts and sufferers of traumatic brain injury. Please, it's real. It happens to
3.5 million people per year and people need education and they need to be aware of what they might be experiencing because of repeated head impacts. So join us in the fight. Join us in the fight.
Corey Berry (1:05:34)
Or it's just a concussion. If you have a concussion and symptoms last a long time, reach out to some of these folks like Concussion and CTE to get help and maybe get to a right doctor that can get you to a concussion clinic that can do things to help you get through that concussion. So we're not just talking about repeated head impacts. We're not just talking about CTE. We're talking about repeated blast exposure.
We're talking about concussions. We're talking about traumatic brain injury, period. No matter, you know, I hear a lot of doctors say mild concussion. You know what a mild concussion is?
when you're not knocked out.
I don't know very many people that haven't been knocked out. And so the taste of purple, all of that is considered a concussion or taste of pennies, color purple, seeing stars, losing your senses for a minute or two. That's a concussion. You do not have to be knocked out to sustain a concussion. I've had two of them in the last six months and I didn't
I don't think I got knocked out of my camera. But you don't have to be knocked out. You know, we hear about Paul's great story when he was playing Pittsburgh and he took a whack in and, know, he was in La La Land and he played two more downs and then walked off. I mean, not knowing where he's at, didn't know what stadium he was at and probably looking for his wife.
Paul Frase (1:07:03)
Hmm.
Corey Berry (1:07:25)
You know, not knowing he's in pads and a helmet. So that's a concussion. He didn't get knocked out. So if you have a concussion, go be seen. you were out.
Paul Frase (1:07:26)
Hmm.
Yeah, I was no, I was knocked out. I was knocked out, but I
was I was but I wasn't married. I mean, I was probably looking for my wife and I wasn't even married yet. So maybe that happened. I don't know, Corey. Hey, y'all stay with us. Yeah, yeah, we have we have some great guests coming on.
Corey Berry (1:07:53)
Looking for your wife for the night?
Paul Frase (1:08:01)
Please tune in. You're not gonna wanna miss some of our guests. we have Dr. Mark Gordon coming on with Colonel, Colonel, yes, Jeremy Bowling. And Jeremy actually has a, yeah, and he has a, two, yeah, next Monday? And he has two monies.
Corey Berry (1:08:14)
Jeremy Bowling.
That's next Monday.
next Monday.
Paul Frase (1:08:30)
two Mondays. has, we just downloaded Cheper. I thought we just downloaded Cheper yesterday.
Corey Berry (1:08:33)
No, next Monday.
Yeah, but this is showing Monday.
Right, but this episode is being filmed next Monday. It's the Monday after that Jeremy Bowling will be on. And then the week after that, we're looking at Dr. Daniel Amon.
Paul Frase (1:08:41)
okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Understood. Understood.
Good deal. So, alright.
Dr. Daniel Amon, don't want to miss that. Tune in to the HeadRush podcast. Stay alert.
Corey Berry (1:08:59)
No.
Stay alive, have a good one.