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Conversations with the smartest people in the golf business to get the inside stories and strategies driving the business of golf forward. Hosted by former PGA Tour player Roberto Castro.
Dan Van Horn 2026
[00:00:00] Speaker: I'm Roberto Castro, and this is The Course Record Show - the trends, technology and strategy driving the business of golf.
[00:00:13] Roberto: All right. Welcome back to The Course Record Show. Today, it's a Quick Nine with Dan Van Horn, founder of US Kids, soon to be inducted into the Georgia Golf Hall of Fame, along with Bobby Jones, Davis Love, Nancy Lopez, for his lifelong impact on junior golf. Dan started US Kids to help his own children play the game, and has built it into the world's leading youth golf development organisation. Equipment standards, tournaments, coaching materials - really shaped the way kids have learned golf all over the globe. Dan, really great to chat with you.
[00:00:45] Dan: Uh, well, thank you for that great introduction. Appreciate that.
[00:00:48] Roberto: You bet. All right, Dan. First question, icebreaker. If you visit the US Kids office and you pull into the parking lot, it looks like a toddler placed the cars in all different directions all over the parking lot. Why is that?
[00:01:02] Dan: Well, I kind of found that people, when they come to work, end up staying in their same routine, and as I was growing the business, I wanted people to be thinking about new ideas and change. So I challenged them: if they would not park in the same spot for a week, that I would buy them lunch. So the first day I showed up, they had cars everywhere, you can imagine. Everybody got creative. Last day, when I got there, there was nobody in the parking lot. So I had to start buying them lunch. So it's just become a part of the essence of US Kids Golf, and that is to think a little bit differently. Don't do it the same way. And I think most people, regardless of how traditional they are, need a little bit of that.
[00:01:51] Roberto: Yeah. We all fall into our routines. That's really, really cool. All right. US Kids evolved from equipment to tournaments, player pathway, global championship. I mean, I'll give the listeners some key numbers. Over 35,000 kids are playing annually in a US Kids tournament, which I think a lot of people think is equipment first. You've set up local tours all over the world. You have over 2,000 kids who come to Pinehurst for the World Championship every year. You even bought a golf course in Pinehurst to test and learn how to best support kids and families. So I want to ask you this. I have a distant engineering education background. I know you have a background in engineering. We tend to think pretty systematically. I mean, how did that mindset inform how you built out this ecosystem? Or was it less engineering mind and more of that creativity from the parking lot?
[00:02:43] Dan: Well, that's a hard one to think about. I am a good engineer, not a great engineer, in the sense that I don't want to be an engineer every day. So I use my engineering really entrepreneurially, and it's thinking to try to think logically about what needed to be done to help kids and families spend more time together playing golf. So everything I've done has been around that mission, going back to being a dad who's trying to bring their kid into the game, or a mum. What do I do? How do I do it? How do I keep them stimulated? How do I really get them to want to come back the next day? You know, it's so important. So that's been the crux of it.
[00:03:28] Roberto: Yeah. So I think it'd be helpful for the listeners. You know, we had Jason Etzen from the AJGA on the show a couple of weeks ago, and they're really focused on super-competitive high school into college golf, right? And in that section, you're really focused on getting kids into golf, getting families into golf. Where's your superpower age-range-wise? I mean, I think that mission is very different, and there's different places you can play. How do you think about that?
[00:03:55] Dan: Well, kind of kids at young ages, if you look at 12 and under -
[00:04:01] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:04:01] Dan: - were not being helped that much. When we started, they weren't being helped with equipment, they weren't being helped with competition, nor with learning. So if you think of that whole group as different, like elementary school, if you would -
[00:04:14] Roberto: Yep.
[00:04:15] Dan: - they have different needs than you do when you go into high school. AJGA is the world's leader in the older kids getting ready for college.
[00:04:23] Roberto: Yep.
[00:04:24] Dan: We're kind of the Little League Baseball, if you would, prep, developmental part of growing kids in the game. And some make it all the way to our World Championships, and others just become lifetime players. We have things that meet everybody at every need to keep them going. So that's what's happened over the years. Some go deep, some don't. But the goal is really not the next Tiger Woods, although that happens. All the people you see on tour, we've impacted. I mean, at the US Open, there's a hundred people out of 150 that have had some sort of connection either through the equipment or tournaments. But that's not the real goal. The real goal is to inspire each kid and parent to be successful in bringing their kids into the game.
[00:05:14] Roberto: What is the role the parent plays? I mean, obviously, especially in that 12-and-under range, right? Basically, a kid can't take themselves to the golf course when they're 5, 6, 7, 8 years old. So how do you support the parents?
[00:05:26] Dan: Yeah. Well, that's the challenge I had. What do I do?
[00:05:29] Roberto: Right?
[00:05:30] Dan: I went in back in the old days and asked the pro for a club, and he went and got me a ladies' - what he called a ladies' 8-iron - and he brought it back out and cut it down. And the length of it was almost as tall as my kid was.
[00:05:44] Roberto: Right?
[00:05:44] Dan: He said, "Here, this will get him started." It was such a discouraging thing. It felt like the kid was playing with a sledgehammer way back. So ultimately, to help, to be thinking about what to do with a 6, 7, 8-year-old, that's what we've tried to do. People come on our site and read about what they could do as a parent. We try to give them some tips. Probably my favourite thing for a 6, 7 to 8 would be to watch the movie The Short Game, which was done about our World Championship, which is a story of 7- and 8-year-olds who come to play in Pinehurst every year, and they've got some real characters in there. So I would start with The Short Game. If I was any parent, you need to start with The Short Game. Yeah. So even though you're an expert -
[00:06:33] Roberto: No, I was just going to say, you would say I'm an expert in golf, but I still don't know what to do to get a 6-year-old girl into golf, right? Like, you need to know where to start. And when you take kids to a clinic, whether it's at Bobby Jones or Ansley or wherever, they're professionals. They know what to do. They know how to make kids have fun. Whether they're using US Kids Player Pathway or not, every time, I'm just scratching my head like, I'm such a dope. I just bring the kids out and I maybe get them some M&Ms and tell them to hit balls. I need more than that, and I think you guys have provided a lot of that, which is really, really cool.
[00:07:08] Dan: I will add one thing to that. I really think a training grip or a moulded grip - we've started developing a lot of equipment. We have clubs called Yard Club and our Ultralight series where we have training grips, so they learn a good grip. So once a player learns to be able to get some speed swinging, the game gets a lot easier. The ball gets up easier. So I think a teaching grip, if you would, or moulded grip, would be very helpful.
[00:07:39] Roberto: Yeah, that's a good call. So I know a lot of the tournaments fall under the foundation side of the business. As far as the core business, the equipment, what are some business lessons learned along the way, right? I mean, you guys have a great wholesale business to green-grass shops. You do a great business with what I call big box, whether it's Dick's Sporting Goods or PGA Tour Superstore. I mean, what's that journey been like on the more traditional equipment side of the business?
[00:08:08] Dan: Well, number one, that side of the business is all about inventory. And the hard part of it is, when you're trying to build a business, you have to buy more inventory. And when you go to the banks to ask for money, they say, "Well, what do you want to use for collateral?" And you say, "Kids' golf equipment." And they kind of go, "Well, I don't really know if I want any money for that." So Phil Knight, when he started Nike, he wrote a book called Shoe Dog. And in it, it's the story about his inventory struggles, how many times the banks gave up on him, and he eventually ended up having to go get some outside financing. When I was at the point where I was running out of money, I scraped through somehow. I never ended up selling it. I never had to go for additional money beyond initial friends and family. But growing an equipment business is all about the inventory, and that's true for all the major companies as well. They've got new models coming out. They've got to get rid of the old ones. They've got to start selling them. They've got to project how much. But at least they're rolling. In my case, I was starting from nothing, and it was really difficult.
[00:09:26] Roberto: Wow. That's why I've read Shoe Dog. It's a great read. And one of my big takeaways was, honestly, I feel like four to six times during the book, the business was a thread away from dying, which was eye-opening, because you thought Nike is just a rocket ship, right? And even when they had great growth and they'd established the business, I mean, Ralph Lauren - I read a few books on his business too - and there was a period early on when they would have been a household name and the business was within an inch of dying at that point. So that cashflow management and inventory management is a challenge for anyone, no matter how well you're doing.
[00:10:02] Dan: It's harder. It's harder than you could even discuss, because in the case of Phil Knight, everybody's got a, let's call it a 10-and-a-half D for men -
[00:10:11] Roberto: Right?
[00:10:12] Dan: - but how many of them have a 10-and-a-half A, and how many people have a 10-and-a-half wide? And then in every style you do, it's - and so you sell the ones that are most likely, but your inventory ends up being the things that you need to sell the least, but you have them left over, right? But you need them to serve the market. It's really hard.
[00:10:34] Roberto: I always find that fascinating in any business, but especially in luxury. Like, when I think about $1,000 sandals or $10,000 sport coats, they have to carry them in 38 short, 38 regular, 40 - I don't understand how they can ever move through that inventory in an efficient way. I guess the margin is so high that it eats it up eventually.
[00:10:55] Dan: And there has to be a margin story, Roberto. It has to be.
[00:10:58] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:10:58] Dan: The margins have to be so much higher.
[00:11:00] Roberto: Yeah. One thing you've done recently is invested in platforms and technology. I know I want to connect the equipment business to your mission because I know that some of the conversations we've had about, hey, how are you presenting the equipment to people? And you're always adamant about it being educational. It's not marketing. It's not buy more. It's learn a little bit more, get a little bit smarter about what might fit your kids better. I think that's the bridge between your nonprofit side and the equipment side. And we've talked about it. You've been very disciplined in it, and I think that's really, really, really cool. And I'm sure your customers appreciate it.
[00:11:38] Dan: Well, the idea of having a mission, a true mission, and not have a mission just in name only -
[00:11:47] Roberto: Right?
[00:11:47] Dan: - for instance, to help kids have fun learning golf and to encourage parent-child interaction, has been our mission. It applies to everything we do, but it's so easy to get off of that and get on to money and how - especially when it comes into growing inventory. And so you lose kind of your compass, if you would, about what you're really trying to do. So by having it written down, it helps a lot. But if you really believe it, then you make all your decisions, kind of what I call right decisions, longer-term decisions, not short-term. For instance, would we sell to Amazon? It was one of our big questions, and we opted not to because what we really felt that US Kids was about was being able to bring kids into the game. And we didn't think Amazon did anything but sell product. Now sure, they would help us sell product, but we really wanted to support the local green-grass or golf shops or specialty golf shops who were really bringing and getting most golfers in the game. So for us, it was never about just sell, sell, sell. It's always been about the mission, helping kids get started, and therefore it's grown a little bit slower than people may realise, but it's also grown in a measure that we could keep up with it and maintain it and keep the quality there.
[00:13:20] Roberto: That's really cool. I think if you went back - I mean, how old's the company? 25, 27?
[00:13:27] Dan: Yeah. I started in '97, actually, with the products. Wow. And the tournaments with one tournament in the year 2000. This year we're going to do 2,500 events in like 45 countries.
[00:13:39] Roberto: That's so cool. But if I go back to that original founding thesis, one thing you always had going for you is the intersection of two very irrational passions: children, your children, and investing in your own children. Yeah, we all make irrational decisions. And then second is golf. Like, it's not a hobby, it's a sickness or a passion or whatever you want to call it. And I think when you combine those two, people are willing - if you can get the message out about the mission - they're willing to pay an extra $5 to buy it at their pro shop. They're willing to get on board with US Kids Golf versus paper towels, right? Amazon is selling, or detergent, or whatever it may be. I just want the cheapest price, right? I want to keep some money in my pocket. But when you connect the mission with two things people feel very strongly about, I could see how it's grown steadily over those years. That's really great.
[00:14:34] Dan: Well, I would add to that point that the product itself - no one in the world goes to as much trouble to have as many shafts and as many head weights and many flexibilities and lengths in order to be able to help kids get started. What other people will do is they'll just put a box of five clubs out there and say, "Here it is, for ages 8 to 11," or "12 to 14," without even looking at their size. And when you start looking at the market, you realise that all 8-year-olds are different. There may be a whole foot in height difference, so therefore they swing it faster or they're stronger or weaker. And you don't need to be fitting them based on their age. You need to be fitting them based on their size. Let them grow into it. But anyway, no one's gone into the trouble with the technology to kind of provide the needs for kids to be able to swing. And that's helped us as well.
[00:15:44] Roberto: Yeah, that's definitely true. I have two in that range, and all 8-year-olds are not created equal, I'll tell you that for sure. No, you see the class photos, you know, I mean, you've got all range. So let me ask you about coaching models and then competition formats. I guess it's different for different kids, but what have you guys seen be most effective? Do the tournaments get kids excited about following their progress, or have you had more success with supporting coaches and getting kids really engaged? I mean, 2,500 tournaments, the answer may be right there that that's really been successful for you. But I think about those two things. Are some kids more learning-inclined and some more competitive-inclined?
[00:16:26] Dan: Well, a little bit like - let's take travel soccer, travel baseball. You end up finding the ones that play in tournaments that we offer are a little more like travel golf, if you would.
[00:16:37] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:16:38] Dan: I mean, we try to make it local, but there's always a group of kids that catch and they go on. But at the beginning stages of development or coaching, in the middle, be it the parent or be it a coach, making it fun as a motivator - a little bit more like Montessori school and a little bit less instructive -
[00:17:01] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:17:01] Dan: - just play, have fun, get started, enjoy the game, the experience. You know, buy an ice cream. Make every time you take them out to the course pleasurable. I mean, the goal for a parent should not be to make them the world's best player, but the goal needs to be to spend time with their kids and to be able to have that. Most parents look back on it and they go, "Oh my gosh." Even the ones with the best players, because the memories of their time together - it is just so precious. And especially as a dad, you lose that. Golf is one of the things that you kind of get to do and bring your kids into it, and it is time with you. I mean, we just put out a video, just a podcast, that talked about the guy - the dad talked about - that this was the best sport that has ever been created for being able to spend time with his two girls. And so if you think of it that way, it's worth the effort.
[00:18:01] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:18:01] Dan: It's worth the pain. It's worth the time, and it's going to end up being great for your life.
[00:18:08] Roberto: Yeah. And I think, you know, not to sugar-coat it, my coach, John Tillery, he has two boys that are teenagers now, but I remember when we were hanging out together at Sea Island about the effort, the pain and the time. His boys - he told me, "Roberto, it's taken so much of that to get them to play the nine holes where they go to their ball, they don't leave a club on every hole, they know - like, we can play nine holes in an hour and 50 minutes - and it took a lot of work." Right. And now they're on the other side of that and they're golf buddies. And my goal - and I'm not even close to there, but this conversation's inspiring me - I have two girls. To be able to play nine holes when they come home from college one day, or to have grown kids over a holiday break to say, "Hey, we're all going to be at the beach. Let's go play nine holes together." That, to me, would be success. I don't care if they ever break 80 or 90, but, you know, "Hey, can we go play nine holes?" So the weather's hopefully warmer around the corner here, and I'm going to force myself to keep trying.
[00:19:09] Dan: Well, I'm sure you will as a good dad, but if you think of it as a treasure for dad, you're going to find that you need those things later on in life. Yeah. It's worth it.
[00:19:20] Roberto: Yeah. And I tell you, you said mums too. I go to Bobby Jones in our neighbourhood, and in the afternoons when the weather's nice, I see tons of mums and daughters and sons hitting golf balls after school. It's a totally different deal after COVID, which is great to see. So -
[00:19:35] Dan: A lot of kids bring their mums into the game. I mean, because -
[00:19:38] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:19:39] Dan: - they want to be with them. And they were, "Wait a minute, you're getting to do this. Why can't I do it?"
[00:19:43] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:19:44] Dan: You know?
[00:19:44] Roberto: Yeah. We've seen that a little bit at our house with tennis. Everyone's kind of getting into it at the same time, which is fun. It's another sport you can play your whole life, so -
[00:19:53] Dan: That's right.
[00:19:53] Roberto: I'm all for it. Dan, awesome conversation. Congratulations, Georgia Golf Hall of Fame. I hope we can raise a glass to that. It's a big deal. That list of names in Georgia specifically is really, really impressive. And what you've built at US Kids Golf is super commendable. So thanks for chatting.
[00:20:11] Dan: It is wonderful to do something you love, Roberto.
[00:20:15] Roberto: Yeah. Your instructions to have fun with what you're doing and living it - I can see that you have fun with what you're doing, starting at the parking lot all the way, you know, 28 years in now - is really inspirational and should be to anyone who listens to this conversation.
[00:20:30] Dan: So, well, look, if he worked for me, Roberto, I would make sure you're having a good time. There's nothing more important, because you were a kid at one time, just like I was. So helping other kids have fun also means helping every one of my employees enjoy what they're doing.
[00:20:48] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:20:48] Dan: And it - because it's part of the mission, really.
[00:20:51] Roberto: Yeah.
[00:20:52] Dan: And so I try to live that every day.
[00:20:55] Roberto: That's great. Dan, thanks again.
[00:20:57] Dan: Okay, man. See you.
[00:20:58] Roberto: Thanks to Holderness and Bourne for supporting The Course Record Show. I got two new shirts in the mail last week. They're called Swing Knit button-downs with a cotton stretch blend. Wasn't sure what to think, but absolutely love them. It's gotten a little bit warmer. It's springtime. They're stretchy. You can wear them under a sport coat. You can wear them untucked. Really, really cool. Give them a shot. It's the Cullen shirt. Comes in a couple of different shades of blue. And the Goodrich shirt, which has a little pattern, but if you're more than a couple of feet away, it just looks like a really nice, bright, fresh colour. Check it out. HBGolf.com. Swing Knit button-down shirts.