The Fight for Reproductive Freedom

As 2023 comes to a close, we are reflecting on how far we’ve come in the fight for reproductive justice, and how far we still have to go to achieve a freer future in which every person has access to the health care they need.  This week on Feminism NOW, Christian F. Nunes speaks with two fierce advocates in the ongoing movement for reproductive rights. 

Nancy Davis is an activist and leader whose personal experience being denied an abortion in Louisiana inspired her to create the Nancy Davis Foundation to support individuals who face barriers to accessing the reproductive healthcare and resources they deserve. Nancy talks about the power of personal stories in transforming policy and shares what reproductive freedom looks like to her. 

Alexis McGill Johnson is president and CEO of Planned Parenthood Action Fund and Planned Parenthood Federation of America. Alexis discusses how Planned Parenthood is working to “build Roe back better” and to create lasting infrastructure to support reproductive health care across the nation, especially in states where abortion access is restricted or banned. 

In an empowering conversation, Nancy and Alexis remind listeners how important it is to keep reproductive rights forefront in conversations about justice and equity as we move into a new year. 

Listen to new episodes of Feminism NOW released every other Wednesday. To find out more about the National Organization for Women, visit our website.

Creators & Guests

Host

Christian Nunes

Guest

Alexis McGill Johnson

Producer

Caroline Cooper

Editor

Ismael Balderas-Wong

Guest

Nancy Davis

Writer

Stu Nolan

What is Feminism NOW?

Passionate about modern feminist issues? Want to learn more about how today's political, academic, and cultural leaders strive for a future of universal equality and justice?

Join NOW President Christian F. Nunes in a new podcast dedicated to intersectional feminist discussions in American society with leaders in entertainment, sports, politics, and science. From conversations on constitutional equality, to economic justice and reproductive rights, listeners will find new ways to learn, engage, and get empowered.

Listen for new episodes released every other Wednesday.

Christian F. Nunes (00:06):
Hello, hello, and welcome to Feminism Now. I'm Christian F. Nunes, the National President of the National Organization for Women. What a year it has been. As we close out 2023, I'm so excited to be in conversation with two truly amazing women who are working tirelessly to advance health equity and reproductive rights and freedom for people across the country.
(00:38):
The first guest we have today is Nancy Davis, who's an activist and leader, whose personal experience being denied an abortion in Louisiana turned her into an advocate for individuals like herself who faced barriers for accessing the reproductive healthcare and resources they deserve. Everyone, help us welcome Nancy Davis.
(01:00):
Our second guest is Alexis McGill Johnson, the President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Action Fund and Planned Parenthood Federation of America, an organization promoting sexual and reproductive health and education across the nation. I'm sure you have probably seen Alexis everywhere. We are so excited to have this amazing conversation we're going to have today. Everyone help me welcome Alexis McGill Johnson. Once again, Alexis and Nancy. Welcome to Feminism Now.
Alexis McGill Johnson (01:34):
Thank you so much, Christian.
Christian F. Nunes (01:36):
Okay, so just starting off, we have heard so many conversations after the overturning of Roe vs. Wade about abortion access, abortion bans, and just the constant fight for bodily autonomy. We've seen so many heart-wrenching stories about women fighting for their rights, and one of the common terms we've heard is reproductive freedom. Can we talk a little bit more about that? I would love for both of you to tell me, when you think about reproductive freedom, what does that look like to you? I'll start with you, Nancy. Tell me what you think reproductive freedom looks like to you and just in general, how do we collectively move toward the reality of reproductive freedom as we go toward 2024?
Nancy Davis (02:22):
That's a really, really good question, Christian. Reproductive freedom to me, it signifies the fundamental right for individuals to make choices about their reproductive health without interference. It truly encompasses the ability to access comprehensive healthcare, family planning, and the autonomy to decide if and when and how to have children.
Christian F. Nunes (02:49):
That's great. For you, it's just people being able to truly decipher themselves, so if they want to have children, if they don't want to have children, and fully having that free agency to make the choices for themselves?
Nancy Davis (03:03):
Yes, correct, and I think you brought the question about moving forward. Well, moving forward, my mission is clear. We must challenge the restrictive policies that deny us our reproductive rights and also challenge the stigmatization surrounding abortion.
Christian F. Nunes (03:21):
Okay, that sounds wonderful. Alexis, what is your take on this?
Alexis McGill Johnson (03:25):
Reproductive freedom in 2024 looks a lot like what reproductive freedom has always meant, which is our ability to engage in our own self-determination, to make private medical decisions without the influence or insertion of politicians. It means being able to get the access to the care that we need when we need it, where we need it, in state.
Christian F. Nunes (03:53):
I think this is really important when we think about what we've been seeing for the past year or so, especially post-Dobbs decision and just how much reproductive health and maternal health has really suffered. Do you all think that listeners and people in the general public recognize that reproductive health also has had a major impact on maternal health, and how are we seeing this play out in everyday life for the community?
Alexis McGill Johnson (04:21):
Well, I think the thing that we have seen this year, right, I mean, we all know the state of play. There are 21 states that have restricted or banned access to abortion since Dobbs. That means over one in three women, plus more trans and non-binary folks, don't have access to abortion. What we haven't talked as much about is how when abortion is banned, pregnancy becomes more dangerous. We have seen countless stories, and obviously Nancy's own experience here, of patients having to get on the road and travel in ways to get access not just to abortion care, but also oftentimes in relationship to miscarriage care, which is also abortion care.
(05:04):
We've also seen the impact on providers. There have been a decline in OB-GYN providers in states with bans, particularly those who engage in high-risk pregnancies. The health deserts that we're seeing come to light in the wake of Dobbs I think is telling a much broader story, about how abortion is a part of sexual and reproductive healthcare, when it has been isolated and stigmatized for so long. It's really demonstrating the fullness of why we always say abortion is part of healthcare.
Christian F. Nunes (05:39):
Alexis, you bring up really personally Nancy's story, and so I love Nancy Davis' story. Nancy, I have to share our personal connection with how we met in your story, because Nancy's story is so important. I'm going to give you a chance to tell your story, Nancy, so I'm not going to go too far into it, but it's such a personal story about the nexus of maternal and paternal health. Nancy and I actually met when she was sharing her story and fighting for reproductive rights and abortion access and importance of the need for care and policy on a talk show. Nancy, why don't you share with us why your story is so important and why you decided to start the Nancy Davis Foundation? Can you share that for the listeners?
Nancy Davis (06:24):
I most certainly can, Christian. Where do I start? Let me just say that this past year has been very, very challenging, and I honestly had no idea when the overturning of Roe v. Wade took place that my life would be affected the way it has, and also my family's life. Last year I was confronted with a very painful reality in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. To put it briefly, I sought an abortion for a non-viable fetus that was diagnosed with acrania. For those that aren't familiar with acrania, it's the absence of the skull and most of the brain.
(07:05):
Now, this was a very, very difficult choice, but what made it even more complex was the restrictive abortion bans in Louisiana. The doctors, our healthcare provider initially quoted $6,000 for the abortion procedure to be done, and which we thought that that was very, very steep. It took an unexpected turn when we were actually denied, due to the fetus still having a heartbeat and due to Louisiana abortion bans. This decision was very confusing, being that Louisiana has exceptions in place and it should have been covered under those lists of exceptions, but this forced us to travel nearly 1,400 miles away to Manhattan, New York, to Planned Parenthood of Greater New York to receive abortion care.
Christian F. Nunes (07:57):
When you talk about your story, Nancy, it's really important, because the reality is like your case should have been covered, right? It should have been covered under the exceptions in the laws of Louisiana, but my understanding is it was because the actual diagnosis wasn't listed. Is that correct?
Nancy Davis (08:15):
Correct. Acrania was not listed on the list of exceptions, although it still should have been covered under those listed exceptions. It really highlights the confusion amongst the laws and how the doctors are actually scared to provide these services because they are scared of prosecution, being fined and even jail time, you know?
Christian F. Nunes (08:39):
Absolutely. I think what we are seeing is that these extremists are finding any reason to deny bodily autonomy to women, wouldn't you say so?
Alexis McGill Johnson (08:51):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, just three hours ago, the judge in Texas granted Kate Cox an emergency abortion, but think about that. She had to go before the court to ask for the right to get an abortion and to justify it, right? I mean, I think that what Nancy's story I think is really indicative of is what we are seeing with patients across the South and the Midwest, are patients who are being made to justify their healthcare need, to justify their decisions about when and if they want to start a family or continue a family, to raise resources to travel out of state, or to go to a court to make a case for why they should be trusted to make their own decisions around their own bodies, or actually, really because they are not trusted to be able to make decisions about their bodies. They have to go and plead in front of a judge.
(09:51):
That kind of just outrageous shift, in allowing politicians to write a policy as if they are medical providers themselves and know every possible eventuality, I think is just the most insane thing. I think that that's why we have seen such a swift backlash against many of these states and against many of these lawmakers, because people understand that medical providers should be making these decisions with patients, right, not with lawmakers.
Christian F. Nunes (10:23):
Well, absolutely. Like Nancy was pointing out too, you're also pointing out that it's going against everything these medical providers have gone to school for, to do no harm, to be in best interest of their patients. It's causing them to have to violate so many of their ethics in order to uphold these policies, written by people who have no sense of understanding the basic biology of a woman's body or a person's body and how it works or functions. Here, women and persons who can get pregnant or having to defend themselves and be put through trauma to prove that they have this right to ownership, and I think that goes to the larger problem that we're seeing. This question is for both of you. We are coming up to a big election year. What do we see? How do we play it in 2024? What do we need to do in order to really fight back?
Nancy Davis (11:20):
Well, the abortion bans pretty much underscore the urgent need for continued advocacy, continued education, and also collaboration to protect and advance reproductive rights for everyone, no matter where you are in the world.
Alexis McGill Johnson (11:37):
Yeah. I think what we're seeing is that we are winning, right? I mean, Christian, what you named is the fact that voters have said consistently how they feel about getting access to reproductive healthcare, including abortion. Everywhere where abortion has been on the ballot, we have won, because people understand what is at stake in a very real and material way, in their personal experience or the stories that they are hearing that have come out post-Dobbs.
(12:15):
I think when you look at what happened, not just in last year's cycle of ballot initiatives and the midterms, what we are seeing now in the Ohio ballot initiative most recently, the Virginia elections, continuing to see the energy that voters are calling out their electeds that they do not like the decisions that they've made. I think that the real opportunity here for us to rebuild reproductive freedom and reimagine reproductive freedom starting in 2024 is about ensuring that we get to a governing majority of reproductive freedom voters and politicians, so that we can look towards federal legislation.
Christian F. Nunes (13:02):
I really like what you said, Alexis, about re-imagining reproductive freedom, what that looks like, because I think that's so important. I think for so long, we only heard stories of certain people. Part of this re-imagining is making sure it's inclusive storytelling, and making sure that we're including the narratives of everyone in this reproductive freedom vision. That way, we're also encouraging everyone to be a part of transforming this vision. I think Nancy's story has been really effective in driving policy, so Nancy, this question's for you, because I don't want you to think I'm speaking of you without talking to you, but do you think personal stories are going to be effective in 2024 with helping drive policy change?
Nancy Davis (13:55):
I definitely, wholeheartedly, 100% think that. Personal stories is a way of showing the impact of these laws. It's very funny, because recently I sat down with Diane Sawyer and Rachel Scott and did a segment about the impact of the abortion bans, and it was myself and several other women, and just hearing the stories and hearing how a lot of them actually had to carry their baby to bury their baby, and not only that, but a lot of them also almost lost their lives. They almost died, to the point to where the medical board of the hospital said, "Okay, well, you're not sick enough yet, so we can't do anything until you get sick enough," so they literally almost lost their lives.
(14:49):
I just feel like those stories are very, very important in creating and moving forward with policy changes, because it shows the effects of them and the real-life situations that people are going through all around the world. For my story personally, Louisiana has added, as you mentioned earlier, a small change, but it's a change moving in the right direction, that advocacy does work. These stories, whether you believe it or not that people are listening, they are actually listening.
Christian F. Nunes (15:23):
Absolutely. Alexis, how has Planned Parenthood been effective in shifting policy regarding reproductive freedom?
Alexis McGill Johnson (15:33):
Well, I mean, it starts with the stories that Nancy talked about. It starts with hearing from patients about their lived experience with the policies. That's what makes it real, right? That's what helps us understand why these policies are harmful, and helps us gain footing and grounding in what we need to fight for to actually make reproductive freedom real. While we have these 21 states with these horrific restrictions, we are also seeing many states fight back and push to expand care.
(16:09):
We see policy efforts to do everything from advocate for shield laws to protect doctors who prescribe in states from not being prosecuted by ban states or extradited. We've seen states push to include nurse practitioners or other clinicians to expand the availability of providers who are able to provide abortion care. We have seen states push for state coverage of abortion, knowing that federally we are restricted by the Hyde Amendment in allowing patients who rely on public assistance to get access to care.
(16:47):
These are state-by-state fights, and they're also incredibly critical to restoring and strengthening an infrastructure that quite frankly has been harmed and gutted by decades of abortion restrictions and targeted restrictions against abortion providers, so-called trap laws. The infrastructure pre-Dobbs was already under siege. Just because there was a federal right, a constitutional right to abortion, didn't mean that everyone had equal access to it.
(17:22):
The idea of where we are right now from a policy perspective is an opportunity for us to reimagine what would full, free access to care look like. How do we think about not just restoring Roe, but I like to say in political circles, we need to actually build Roe back better. We need to create a much stronger floor, and aspire towards what it means to be able to have full autonomy over your body and your private medical decisions and how you access that, how you pay for it, how you resource that. How you ensure that you have the support that you need, whether you choose to build a family or not.
(18:02):
I think the foundation of what we are fighting for, the activism, what we are seeing across the board with so many different new constituencies coming into the fight, means we have an opportunity to really rethink our policy gains and ensure that we are pushing to the limit where we can and building a stronger state-by-state governing majority, so that we can create national federal pressure. Because the opposition is clear, right? They want a national ban. The opposition wants to make sure not only is abortion unattainable, but also unthinkable, and the work that we are doing to make abortion more available, make it undeniable, make it unquestionable, make our bodies ungovernable, is the most critical thing we could be doing as we move into '24.
Christian F. Nunes (18:49):
Absolutely. I also want to add, they're not just coming after abortion access. They're coming after contraception. They're coming after IVF. They're coming after everything. It's like it's a total power and control issue. One of the things I think sometimes people forget is that Planned Parenthood offers a full range of services that we forget. I remember when I was in high school, senior year in high school. I suffered early on from really horrible menstrual cramps, and later on I found out that I had endometriosis, but Planned Parenthood was the first place I went to get evaluated by an OB-GYN to help me control my menstrual cramps and reduce the pain. People don't understand that contraception is used for a lot of different reasons.
(19:38):
I think that part of what you all do very effectively is have lots of different campaigns to help people understand the full range of services that are out there. Part of what we have to also continue to do is educate people on fully what reproductive services look like, and fight back on all the disinformation that we see that's out there, so people understand that reproductive rights and freedom is for everyone.
Nancy Davis (20:03):
Yes. Can I make a comment on Planned Parenthood and their services? I love Planned Parenthood. I really believe a lot of people have misguided or misleading information about Planned Parenthood, Christian, as you were saying, that they offer a wide range of services besides abortions. I still utilize Planned Parenthood to this day, honestly. Even before my abortion, I utilized Planned Parenthood for my birth control, for my cervical exams. There were times where I did not have insurance, literally did not have anything, no Medicaid, no nothing. I went to Planned Parenthood and they still saw me, and they still gave me the same respect as if I had Medicaid or any other type of insurance. Planned Parenthood is a lifeline for people all over the world.
Christian F. Nunes (20:57):
Absolutely. I appreciate you pointing that out, Nancy, because I think it's one of those things sometimes we have to recognize when we're also talking about economic justice and services and access. We all need to make sure we're working to make sure that Planned Parenthood is staying in our communities, and other orgs are also staying in our communities that are providing those services as well. I know we're just starting to start this conversation, but we are running out of time, so I just want to find out from either one of you. Is there any last things that you want us to know about your organizations or as we're moving into 2024, that's really important as we talk about their fight for reproductive freedom? I will start with you, Alexis, and I'll go to you, Nancy.
Alexis McGill Johnson (21:39):
Yes. Well, thank you again for having me on in conversation with you, Christian, and with you, Nancy. It is just such a delight to be in a moment that we are in that is completely challenging and horrific, but being in a movement with incredibly brilliant, thoughtful leaders like you all and women of color, Black women who are, I think, bringing a natural lens to the economic justice fight that you named, the right to control what our kids read, all of the things that actually make us full and free citizens.
(22:19):
The thing that I think about as we go into 2024 is how important it will be for us to maintain the momentum we are on in this moment, right? We have consistently proven that, as I said before, when abortion is on the ballot, freedom wins, and we cannot break serve, right? The opposition, they're going to try so hard, to your point, not just to come after abortion access, but they're already coming after gender-affirming care. They're coming after birth control, contraception, emergency contraception, coming after IVF. They're coming after all the ways in which we control our ability to express ourselves, the ability to express our bodies, and our voice in our own democracy.
(23:04):
It is no accident that many of the same states that have abortion bans have restrictions that they have tried to place on our ability to vote. I think that we should be very afraid of the power and control that they are advocating for. We should be very concerned about the ways in which they have locked in such a strong political advantage. We should also be really hopeful about the fact that the majority of people will continue to be on our side.
(23:37):
My call to action is to not let up. My call to action is to make sure that we keep the fight for reproductive freedom front-line and center in every single conversation, every Saturday morning at the beauty shop, every school board meeting with our fellow parents, at our family holiday dinners, in the grocery store line, because it is the continuation of the conversation of the stories, and particularly the stories sharing the real impact of these bans like Nancy has done with us so beautifully today. That to me is going to be the difference. My CTA is to keep it up.
Christian F. Nunes (24:14):
All right, and Nancy?
Nancy Davis (24:16):
Yeah. It has been an honor being here with all of you. You guys are powerhouses. I hope I'm as good, once I get a little older like you all. I would like to bring up the Foundation. Well, the Nancy Davis Foundation was actually founded in response to a deeply personal and challenging experience, as I briefly talked about, that we went through last year, and after being denied care, it really highlighted the need, the critical need for resources, reform in reproductive healthcare and maternal rights especially in regions like Louisiana, where access to reproductive services are restricted.
(24:57):
The Foundation is committed to making a positive impact, and we are dedicated to promoting reproductive justice, women's health, community development through advocacy, education and support. Now, it is a call to action for all of us to stand united, demanding a future where no one experiences the anguish of denied access, where reproductive choices are honored, respected, and free from judgment.
Christian F. Nunes (25:25):
All right, so y'all all heard it from Alexis and Nancy that we must continue to push and continue to fight, stand united, so that no one is denied care regardless of their difference. We must be united always. I am so thankful to have you both, Nancy and Alexis, on Feminism Now. You both are doing amazing, brilliant work that I know is coming truly from your hearts and you're unapologetic about it, which you know I always love. Thank you for being on the show with us today.
(26:00):
Listeners, if you would like to hear more, please feel free to email us. If you have a show idea, email us at [e-mail]. Thank you for listening. Have a happy holidays, and we'll be back in the new year. As always, come with us, stay engaged and don't stop the fight. Have a great day everyone.
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