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The Pressure Lab is a first-of-its-kind mental fitness podcast built specifically for competitive and youth soccer players navigating the real emotional demands of the game.
This weekly podcast from HEADFIRST, a Philadelphia Union Foundation initiative, is hosted by Keith Wilford who gets into the realities of being a young athlete today. Featuring conversations with pro athletes, coaches, mental health professionals, and youth development experts, each episode is an honest conversations about pressure, identity, confidence, failure, burnout, belonging, and the emotional weight competition can put on you.
No highlight reels. No empty hype. Just real stories, real insight, and practical tools for players and the people around them.
If you’ve ever felt the game get bigger than the field, The Pressure Lab was made for you.
About HeadFirst: HEADFIRST is a mental fitness initiative of the Philadelphia Union Foundation designed to equip young athletes with the tools, language, and mindset to perform under pressure and grow through everything sport puts them through. HEADFIRST is proudly sponsored by Independence Blue Cross and Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine. More information at www.myHEADFIRST.org
About the Philadelphia Union Foundation The Philadelphia Union Foundation is a 501(c)3 nonprofit, dedicated to creating opportunity, building community, and developing the next generation of athletes and leaders through soccer and education-based programming in Chester, Pennsylvania and the surrounding region. More information at www.philadelphiaunionfoundation.org
About Our Host: Keith Wilford is a Mental Health and Wellness Educator at YSC Academy and founder of The Wilford Movement. A Widener University All-American and MA in Counseling Education, Keith has spent his career at the intersection of sport, education, and youth development. He is a national leader in student development and has coached and counseled student athletes at some of the most competitive academic and athletic programs in the country.
Tag In here: https://forms.gle/VLBmyLFjVmbtZxBb6. In a few honest words, tag in with the heart of why you’re here: why you play, why you coach, why you care, why you support someone you love in sport. Share your moment and add your voice to a space that puts every player’s whole self first.
Now you are not good enough.
You are not going to make it.
I always say,
never listen to all the negative.
The motivation is you, your zero decide.
Step into the pressure
lab brought to you by HEADFIRST
to Philadelphia Union
Foundation's mental health initiative.
Here.
We believe mental fitness is as important
as physical fitness.
You train your body every day.
This is where you train your mind.
The pressure, the doubt, the setbacks.
They're all part of the game.
But what you do with it, that's the skill.
I'm so thankful
that you all have joined this podcast
today, as we sort of talk through the idea
of dealing with athletic pressure,
I'm fortunate
to be joined by two phenomenal people.
One is Sebastien
Le two, the club's all time leading scorer
in goals and assists, one of 16 players
in MLS history to join the 5050 club
in the first member of the Philadelphia
Union Ring of Honor that started in 2018.
We also have Doctor Alec Baker.
Doctor Baker is a licensed clinical
psychologist, specialize in sports
and family issues, and he helps
young athletes all over the country.
As we sort of tag into this concept
and really we're in this space together.
I hope that you listen with your head,
your heart
and your soul
as we step through this process together.
I'm so juiced to be with all of you today.
You're the purpose of this conversation
and having these conversations
sometimes three ways,
sometimes two people at a time.
But I think the beauty of it
is we're allowing ourselves to sort of
connect to the realities of what athletes
deal with on a regular basis.
You know,
the way that the format will work
is we're going to have these opportunities
to sort of check in.
And so this idea of checking in
and checking out is this phrase
that we're going to call tag in
and tag out.
The purpose of it is the HEADFIRST
initiative really talks through this idea
that we have tools, and we have ways
in which people can support each other.
I think the bigger part of tagging in is,
if you can imagine even being in a game,
you sort of tag your teammate in
and tag your teammate out.
It's a beautiful way to have that
beautiful connection between two people.
So the idea is that every HEADFIRST bag
that gets handed out to a student athlete
is there's these tags
that are attached to where they go,
and it links to ultimately
where these athletes can get support.
So I think the first things first is
how can we check in with ourselves
before this conversation.
And so when I think about myself,
like in tagging in,
I really want to speak to how I'm feeling
right now.
And so, you know, my guests here are
Sebastian Little and Doctor Alec Baker.
But I really want
to learn from both of you how
you're feeling right now when
you think about tagging in for yourself
and for myself.
Like, immediately.
Like even the topic
that we get into today, you know,
I think right now, like, there's
this I am I'm feeling a little nervous
and uncertain.
This is something new for me.
And as I sort of jump through it,
I'm just sort of excited to sort of here
where you are.
So, Doctor Baker, I'm in the same place.
And this feels pretty new to me.
There's some bright lights here.
I'm excited
because it feels like a great opportunity
to hang out with you
and talk about the topic
that's really, really important to me
and a major part of my career
and what I want to really be
the future of my career.
I'm also sitting next to a pro athlete.
Right.
Is it
is it going to far to say union legend?
Right.
That's not me to say.
You have to ask a question.
But I'm excited to, you know,
spend some time and get to know everybody.
But, you know,
it's always a little nerves, right.
So is my daughter Dagen. Absolutely.
All right.
So I'm going to tag in to and sing
I feel just excited.
You know buying here and being able
to share my let's say life experience.
You know being a young athlete
and then becoming a personality
which for me
it's a bit two different things.
But yeah.
And excited to be the first guest
in this new podcast.
And hopefully, you know, with a, you know,
the world we are going to exchange
today, we could maybe help some people
listening and understanding
how sometimes a life could be
even if it's, you know, our own.
But yeah, it's again
and on a personal life,
we want to share some things
that I'm very excited to
and kind of scared because I'm
going to become a dad soon
and be my first child.
And I have no idea,
no clue what's going to happen.
So exciting.
Sometimes scared.
You know,
I still need to learn a lot about that.
But yeah, it's
going to be something very nice.
And I know a life changer
as a people told me.
So excited about that. Yeah.
The beautiful part
of this whole concept of tagging in.
And I think
when I think about the listener,
sometimes we
we need words and need concepts to be able
to dig into something
a little bit deeper on our way home,
whether or not that's on our way home
from competition
or their way home from school.
But I think the idea of
like actively checking in, having that
reflection and intentionally tagging out,
I'm so excited to to jump into this topic
that we have
for our listeners today
and this idea of athletic pressure.
And I,
you know, it's very close to home.
I think that when I think about this idea,
I'm imagining
that child coming home
from that game
and not feeling like they have met
the expectations of themselves first,
maybe their parents and their coach.
And I'm wondering,
how has pressure showed up for you,
and when was the first time
you actually recognized it?
I'm from a France in office, or soccer
was kind of the number one sport,
so everybody plays it.
I was very fortunate to kind of be
good at it, you know, when I was young,
but I'm from a very small town,
so I played for my small club.
The first time I say I felt pressure,
it was when I was 12 years old.
My mom, let's say, put me into a tryout
for like a, like a school,
you know, soccer in France,
not an academy, but something like that.
And she just came one day,
I remember, and she was like,
all right, you know, this weekend
you have to do this tryout.
And I was like, what?
I was like, yeah.
So I was like, you know, everybody is
telling me, like, you are so good.
That's so good.
So let's see how good you are, you know?
So because I told like,
it was kind of one of my dreams
since I'm, let's say 7 or 8 years old,
I went to my first soccer game
with my dad, professional soccer game.
And so I went to this tryout
and that this trial
is kind of the first time you're like,
all right, I need to be good.
I need to impress, you know, whoever is,
you know, looking at me and judge me.
So it was a good pressure.
In the same time,
it was not a pressure like because of,
you know, my parents,
or maybe it's because I wanted to do it.
So it was kind of like, all right.
Am I good enough,
you know, to to kind of compete against
maybe the best kid in the area
where I was from in France?
I feel like you you start,
I think, putting pressure
when you are young, when you start
maybe to be 14 or 15.
So it was a little bit different,
but you feel more the pressure
when let's say as a team
you play for play at the highest level
and the expression from that team is
you have to win every weekend.
So it was
it was kind of like the feeling of
still having fun playing the game.
But you worry too about what
your coach think
and what your teammates think.
You know,
because you still want to, let's say,
play in a best team of the category.
But you have to deliver a week
in and week out. So
you are judged to compare to every player
you know, you have a run yourself.
It's interesting to say that and I,
I think about that last word compare
and I'll actually spin it
over to you, Alec, is you know what?
Why is there such a need for comparison?
Sure.
So say we're talking about that age
group 12 to 14.
That's when you just start
to actually come into touch with the fact
that you are a person separate
from everyone else,
and the self-consciousness
really starts to come in.
And how do we know we're okay?
We look to the people around us, right?
We look at our teammates, we
look at our parents, we look at teachers.
Our social group
is really the biggest influence
in that respect, because they're the ones
that were with all the time.
We look for that reassurance
in those relationships.
I think that also speaks to the way
that coaches and parents can come into it.
Our parents
are our primary source of reassurance.
But when we get to that age,
and I heard that in your story, right,
that when you started to compete
and get to that higher level,
you kind of needed that reflection
from the coaches.
You needed them to see your value
and reflect it back to you.
So I think that's a part
of what we're doing.
We're just trying to regulate, right,
and keep ourselves on an even keel.
The other day you were talking about
just being a shy person,
being someone
that's incredibly introverted myself,
I'm wondering how that fed into
you as an athlete for the good or the bad?
Yeah, for the good and bad.
The good is, I mean, all my introvert
like person I am still, you know,
even if I'm a more extrovert now
living in America
and kind of learning from my experience,
I never wanted
to, like, be the star or whatever.
When I was younger, I wanted to do
everything I could to make my team wins.
I was always the one to being on time,
you know, being respectful.
Listen to the coach when he talks, not,
you know, shooting in a goal or doing,
you know, crazy stuff with my friend
or talking when the coach, because I
really was motivating from a young age to
I want to become a professional athlete.
And I got this from my education
with my parents, which I'm very thankful
because they give me all the tools
to be successful in my own life,
but respectful with overall.
But then if I supposed to be the guy
who maybe
take the shot or, you know, I was not
the one who was going to step on the film?
Like, I take it I was kind of shower.
I don't I don't know if I can.
Am I going to be, you know, the
maybe one of the best players in my team?
I never really see me that way.
I was always kind of like,
I do the right thing
for the for the team,
but maybe not for myself.
And my life is not always successful,
you know, it was not always like
I was always winning and, you know,
having great game and scoring goals.
I got injuries, didn't play a lot.
You have to go through,
you know, a lot of disappointment.
I feel like as an athlete to see
do you have what it takes to, you know, do
the effort, do the hard work like the or
where you need to give up
because it's too hard?
I play in the C team in U15 in France,
not the A-Team, not the beat.
I play in C
and I was on the bench sometime because,
you know, the coach didn't like me.
I didn't like to jump in the air
because I never liked to hit the ball.
So he said, oh,
you're going to be on the bench.
You don't jump. I'm like, okay.
But he didn't like, stop me.
I knew you have to kind of like,
know yourself how good you are,
but you work for it to get better
every time.
And my, let's say, drive to be an athlete,
you know, really helped me to keep pushing
myself and, you know, wanted something
and be better than somebody
who was maybe better than me.
And I was 16 years old.
I joined the academy of.
And it's like again
now talk about pressure.
And it's like, okay,
now you are like with a big kid, you start
to have your first contract in France.
I was making a little bit of money,
which was nice, but, you know,
now you have expectations and you play
with the best, so it's a lot to do.
But again,
I was not always playing everything.
So you're always go to a different area.
But I think my education and my parents,
the fact that never they never told
me, hey, you're not going to fix it,
you should stop that.
They always not push me.
But let me be.
You know, it's what you want to do, okay?
We support you.
But it was not showing emotion about it.
They just show it by action.
And it's how I think I am as a person
as well.
Like, even with my wife.
I was like, it's a I don't show it.
I'm sure you you never cry.
I cry a lot.
But you know, when nobody watch, it's
pretty much like what I do.
Like I'll cry in movies,
I cry and everything.
But I, you know,
I learned since the youngest
to keep everything inside and not shrink.
I try to be better,
but it's still a work of everyday for me.
It's interesting
you say that this whole idea of emotion,
and especially with our
with our athletes and
and connecting it,
this idea of, of achieving and success
and, you know, athletes
that I deal with all the time.
The idea of being emotional is
sometimes considered a weakness.
And I'm wondering from from your eyes and,
and what you hear and what you've seen.
Why are we afraid as athletes
to release that?
Well, I want to say you and I
probably remember the no Fear campaigns
and the just do it campaigns, the world,
first of all.
And for boys and men, it's not always
acceptable to show vulnerability.
It's interpreted as weakness.
And it gets kind of beaten out of you
in some ways.
I think that may be changing.
I do think there's more openness
to sharing that,
but vulnerability
brings out the potential of rejection.
Yeah, right.
And if we feel something negative
that we're
afraid people won't accept, we keep it.
We hide it, right?
We build walls around it.
We put it in the metaphorical closet
and close the door.
Right.
In order to not have that thrown
back in our face and feel alone.
Because that would be the only worse
thing, is to feel alone and vulnerable.
Yeah, I know a lot of our young
listeners would love to hear from
from the time you
started your career to what you see now,
where do you think
athletes are from
on the professional level
regarding how they manage pressure?
I mean, it's different, different time.
Like we talk about the social media
and let's say the video on YouTube
and everything,
like a lot of the kids like
see what all the like you say
has a great video and all the positive
on the, on social media,
and they want that right away.
They don't understand
how hard it is to accomplish something.
So for me, like from when you are young,
you need to like Affan, you know, first.
Like I play soccer
since I'm probably five years old,
but at first
I like to play soccer all the time.
And then when you go to the highest level,
you still need to keep
that feeling of I play because I love it.
I was very lucky in my life.
I always say, and my wife hates
when I say that I never work.
It's not working, I play,
yes, I get paid for it and I work out,
but it's it's something you love to do.
I signed two years
as a professional in the second division.
I got a bad injury,
I brought my ankle, didn't play a lot,
and at the end of my contract,
the coach came to me as like, sorry,
but we're not going to resign you,
which I understood and play a lot,
but no team wanted me.
They know
I was just came back from injury.
Nothing happened.
And then you start doubting
as a young person it was, you know,
the blog at the time on internet,
you know, started and you here, you know,
like a few comments of, you know,
random person who say, oh, Sebastian,
it's pretty bad.
You know,
you should not play as a professional,
then nobody wants him or whatever.
And you believe it.
You know, you are young,
you have no thing.
Especially like it's a low moment for you.
You know that no team right now wants you.
And you read that.
Yeah, I guess I'm terrible.
I'm not a good player.
You believe what you read.
But I came here
and I don't speak the language.
You can hear it from my accent
on the podcast. Now.
I learn and add few words.
You know, I kind of know my way
around to just, you know, order a meal
and making sure
I know the direction to go to my hotel.
But I cannot understand
the when you speak so fast, so I no clue.
And when I came and I just did this tryout
in Dallas, it was like 300 people play.
It was crazy.
But I was like, you know what?
Let's do it.
I love to play.
I remind myself, like, I'm a good player.
I know I'm good, but you have to show it.
And to do it,
you need to show that you are fun.
And then people saw it.
And of course, it's not like
I plan my full abilities saying that
I just didn't take the ball and everybody
I share, I play the game the right way,
but I didn't care about anything
around me.
The coach yelling at me,
my teammate to whatever we're saying to me
to pass the ball to them
because they make a run, I didn't care.
I play the right way hard.
And I showed that, yeah,
I was better than anybody.
And I got invited to come back
and I spent some time in Dallas,
and then I went to Seattle
for another tryout.
Same thing, different team.
And I just played.
And then I signed for Seattle,
and I was lucky.
And I keep working hard.
And, you know, success
happened to me in Seattle.
And then I came to play
and I got the same way.
But and my English
was better by that time.
But what made me being from
sleeping on my brother's couch
for six months to then coming to America
and having a great career in this country,
it's just I rediscover.
I lose the fun of playing that game
because I put too much pressure on me
listening and reading stuff
online and hearing coach
not liking me because it's what I say.
You have coach, you love you
and you might have coach don't like you.
You cannot choose but learn and try to,
you know, get better
even if a coach doesn't like you.
But it means that okay,
like I say, the time will tell.
If you keep working out,
somebody will be the right choice.
And I play in Seattle
a great first two years.
Then I come to MLS.
The new coach like me but didn't.
I was a forward, but he played me
midfielder, I said nothing.
I work out all year and for whatever
reason I am again positive.
I like to put energy towards
what you want.
I got a phone call from the coach, Peter
Novak of
of Philadelphia the first year,
and when he called me and I.
And it really stick with me
just to show you how the brain works.
He called me 5 a.m.
because I was in Seattle. It has.
We are going to pick you as a combined.
And the second thing to me was
I want you as a number nine as a forward.
And when he told me that, I was like,
hell yeah, because I play wide midfielder
my entire life, I'm like,
I your season in MLS.
I liked it because I play and I work out,
but I want it to be a football.
I knew I could score goals
and when he told me I was like, yes,
now of course I have to show it.
No, I'm good.
But just hearing this
sentence from the head coach
you want
as a person always hear from your boss.
From that they like you for who you are
and you are doing a good job of whatever
you are doing. It's always reassuring.
And when you never heard it and I didn't
hear it for a long time, for a year,
I mean, a coach is that I came to read.
I'm like, let's go.
It just put me even like
so much confidence in me
just because of this sentence of the head
coach I never met, just on the phone.
He told me that and it was a change.
So it's from not having fun to rediscover,
having fun, being good
and then losing a little bit.
But you know who you are
and you hear something from
a coach who start liking you right away
and know who you are.
You play at your best
and everybody is what I say.
There's so many talented player here,
but sometimes they lose the fun
and they put too much pressure on them
for whatever reason.
Social media, parents,
coaches, teammates or whoever,
and they don't play at their best.
And it's it's hard, but you
you always need a little bit of luck.
And I was lucky to. I'm curious
where the idea of pressure in your head
and heart
like where you feel like it is helpful.
So meaning like building
a skill of resilience and where it can be
harmful, you know, for for a parent
driving home with their child right now,
so much language is is thrown at them.
So they may they don't always know what
to say as soon as they jump in the car.
And I'm curious,
what do you say to that, that child,
when they come off the pitch,
even from your own experience, like
what is the maybe 1 or 2
things that you would
suggest and,
and help our audience understand
where parent or a coach can navigate,
where pressure is, can be harmful,
and therefore
it also becomes
something where it's building a skill.
So for me, when I play,
I never had my dad
or my brother would tell me,
you should have done that or you should,
like they never told me about the games.
They always kind of listen or like ask me,
how do you feel?
Or how about the game?
Like even sometimes even watching.
They're just like picking me up.
So you just like as a player,
you vent about the game,
even if sometimes you are not,
you know, true about what really happened.
It's what you felt
and your ego or whatever.
But my parents never like,
oh, you should have done that or that guy,
why is he playing?
Because of you?
Or, you know, stuff that you can't
control, you know, you just want.
I feel like I always have
my parents to be supportive,
not judging in any way,
even if the amazing games are like,
oh my God, you are so good.
Like, let's go to play for another team.
No, they were just, you know, great.
You know, can you do it again
next weekend and and then and never like
they were always trying to, you know,
make me stay humble and everything
which was very good
because it doesn't matter.
You know, there's so many players
in France so you never know.
But then there are the example.
When I was in the car
one time with one of my teammates,
and the daddy was two of the teammate
with me in the backseat,
and the dad was criticizing everything
the player did, his son,
and even some of the team,
and nobody wanted to talk in the car.
You know, like I was like, okay, so sorry.
Like, I think we tie
the game one one or something,
but I felt like I felt bad for my friend,
you know, the teammate because, like,
well, your dad is kind of harsh on you.
Like, you can barely walk
and you know, he's talking to you
about the game that maybe he never played.
So it's
kind of like a different type of feeling.
And, and I felt bad as a young person in
the background was like, well,
I'm kind of glad
my dad is not like that on me, because
then you kind of feeling
toward the sports,
you know, of soccer and football,
as we call it, in France,
but you don't like it anymore, you know,
like I don't want to deal with,
even if you love to play it.
Every kid love to play every game.
But if you don't make it as fun
when you are young, then, you know,
you see guys
who don't want to play anymore because
they don't want to deal with their people
they love the most to criticize them.
Again, I was lucky to not have
that type of atmosphere in the
in my household when I got a bad game
or even when I was a professional.
They never told me, have you never play
even if you are on the bench, which
I was on the bench like a few games,
it was never like anything like negative.
It was always like how you feel and
just let yourself talk about it, you know.
It's interesting.
So I want to take out something
you just said, which was
being in the back of the car and
referring to the fact
of that parent
has never played that sport.
And so I'm I'm curious, Alec,
like when you when you hear that
like just sort of
taking that little piece out,
where is the line between a parent
who wants the best for their child
and where they crossed the line
in this area of critiquing
so hard in something that they've actually
never participated in?
There's so much there.
But but really, what I want to draw out
is the pressure that that parent
might be feeling.
Right.
And in family systems, feelings go around.
They're a little contagious, right?
And we can think of families
kind of like a container for feelings.
And I want to go to the question
that we kind of started with was like,
what do we do with this?
It's really hard to witness somebody
being in distress emotionally, right?
If somebody broke their leg,
we kind of know what to do.
But when somebody's crying,
a lot of times it's very unsettling.
We don't know what to do
and we can jump in to fix it mode.
Right? We can jump into,
oh, I've got to make this better.
The problem is feelings
don't work like that. They're not fixed.
And so really what we need to do
is listen and sit with it.
Right.
When when we, as the observer,
can tolerate that feeling and sit with it
and not be overwhelmed, we're lending that
bandwidth to the other person.
So in this respect, like your parents,
it sounded like
we're giving you the bandwidth
to just have that feeling and let it go.
But your friend didn't have that space.
He was upset about those things
too, probably. Oh yeah, for sure.
I mean.
You know, you kind of see our reaction
since, you know,
we are still quite in the car, you know,
like we don't like start, you know,
being a conversation like, okay,
let's not talk about the game, you know.
Right.
So yeah, it's it's different.
But I put the pressure on myself.
But it was good.
Like one of the advice I give a lot
to kids who wants to do something.
And it's kind of like
when I do appearances with clubs or,
you know, at school or I'm always asking,
what's your dream?
What is the thing you want to do?
And it doesn't have to be
a professional athlete.
It can be a doctor or a lawyer working
as a cameraman or an actor
or whatever you want to do.
I always say like, if you really want it,
but you need to really, like,
listen here.
And I was lucky, like being
I was really my dream.
You need to work out
and it doesn't matter who talked to you.
It could be your parents.
It could be your best friend.
It could be your siblings.
You could even be a coach
or somebody in the industry
you want to be and tell you that
now you are not good enough.
You are not going to make it.
Always say,
never listen to all the negative.
The motivation is you. You're zero.
You decide.
You make it yourself
and you go through our moments.
But if you have your voice, little voice
in your head and say, hey, keep going
and don't listen to the criticism.
You can hear for anybody else.
And now it's even harder.
With the social media,
you keep this good pressure.
It's a good pressure
on putting on yourself,
like do the little effort that I don't
feel like doing it, but you have to.
And at the end of the day, it's
what I told the kids,
if you want something,
you might happen in six months.
But in my opinion, 16 years work on it.
You know,
you cannot just be like this and be good.
You're mine. Train you.
But if you give up because of whatever
you heard or you read, it's like a big
stop to kind of like what you want
to accomplish, you know, as your dream.
There was a point in time,
like when I was playing,
it was all done when it was done.
So when competition was done, it was done.
And I just
how does how does young person navigate
the fact that that pressure
and the things that they here
with social media, it continues
and it continues and it continues.
How how am I
supposed to navigate that
if as a, as a 13, 12, 14 year old
where a lot of times they become consumed
with the camera
as opposed to like just developing
as a young person to sit there and say,
I can make mistakes, I can grow in this.
But when those things get repeated
because for whatever
reason, it's now public.
How does a young person navigate that?
The reality is
when the brain is not fully formed, like,
how are you supposed to process that
when it is something that is constant?
And so obviously jumping into another area
of this whole social media
and how it how that impacts pressure to.
So I'm curious from your from your lens.
I mean, I would say it's difficult
if not impossible,
which is why social media
is polluting this environment for us.
Right?
It happens to adults,
but it's especially for kids.
Right?
So, you know, pressure and anxiety
go hand in hand
and anxiety
takes our mind to the future, right?
It has us imagining
what's going to happen and generally
imagining worst case scenarios.
Right.
Something we call cognitive distortion
where we think of like the catastrophe
worst case scenario,
it gets us away from thinking about most
likely scenarios, and then we start to
like visualize things going wrong.
When we go on to social media,
we see everybody's best day
and we see everybody doing great.
And we don't see the mistakes,
but we can have mistakes
that get plastered all over social media
and then people pick at us, right?
So look at the comments on
just about anything
and it's endless
trolling of somebody not being perfect.
Right.
So I think I want to point out
that it's a challenge without saying
there's nothing to do.
The key thing is that, generally
speaking, we're safe in the moment.
We're safe
in our current surroundings. Right?
And so if we can tune ourselves
into where we are right here now,
so maybe you're sitting in the car,
maybe you do feel a little concerned
about what your parent is thinking
or feeling about how you just did,
but you're going to be okay, right?
And, you know,
mindfulness is a big thing in my practice,
working on those skills that help
draw your attention to the present moment.
Generally speaking,
the present moment is safe, right?
But it's hard
because we always get drawn out of it.
Social media is one major way that we do
get drawn out of that present moment.
What do you think about that? Say? Well.
No, I mean, it's true.
Like our, you know, again, it's
how you as a young person,
you know, the people you have around
you, it's very important.
You know, like the coaches.
Now I'm one of the coaching,
you know, the academy.
It's the way you talk to kids.
You know,
you need to understand them as well.
You know where they come from.
You know, everybody has different family,
different siblings, different stories.
You kind of know a little bit of deeper
about who they are because it's
how you can maybe help them the most,
of course, on the field as well.
But mentor,
it's it's a big thing for anybody.
You want to make the highest level.
It's I had so many players
who are much better than me but never had
maybe a big career
just because sometimes, you know,
and the mantle didn't really help.
But again, I was lucky to, in my youth
career, have good coach,
good friends, try to be always positive.
I think it's a it's a big thing.
I try to be as much positive
I can, even my own life right now,
you know, some bad news or stuff
happen to anybody in any way, but
you always try to attach yourself
about something positive and it's funny.
But, you know, with my wife,
I have a game with her.
She's more towards by thinking about
the worst thing is going to happen,
you know, and not the best.
I'm always trying to win the game.
Why are you thinking about the words?
How about we think about
what could happen, you know, so
it's how you train your mind
and you have to do it on your own.
Of course first.
But then if you have the help
with the people around you,
that's that's very important
to, you know, get quicker when we are all,
you know, we all have bad days.
We all like feel negative
sometimes about stuff happening.
And you just want to say the F word
and you know, you don't care.
And but you don't you. Okay.
It's like a deep breath.
Like you said, this leaves a moment.
And and I always think about
what is a positive right now in your life,
you know, and you just go back to that
and you start rebuilding and.
Okay.
And tomorrow is another day.
It's it's another day I like to live by.
It's the truth of today.
It's probably not the truth of tomorrow.
It could change.
So yeah, it's it's all about this.
But who you have around
you, it's very important.
Especially when you are young.
One, I just wanted to draw on something
that you were saying with thinking.
Worst case and best case,
I actually encourage people
to think of worst case, best case,
and most likely because the most likely
is usually somewhere in between.
And it can be hard
to go from worst case to best case.
But if we think about what's most likely,
which is I show up
and I have an average game, right,
that can take a little bit
of that pressure off and can make it
kind of seem like, well,
this isn't quite the threat
that I feel like it might be.
I think it's really cool
to be in this space with you guys.
I think as, as in real talk, like,
as this thing is, is going,
I think that I for myself,
feeling more relaxed and understanding,
even for myself,
even in this present moment,
you know, my my role
as a child, as the youngest of three,
they give it really hits me hard
because my role in where I was
at really does play into the pressure
that I put on myself.
And so I wonder,
like being the youngest and being one
that had to be there for everybody.
And how does like family role play into
just daily pressure?
Well, it's all about expectations, right?
So I was the youngest
and a lot of chaos in my house growing up.
Sports was a sanctuary.
I got to feel what I needed to feel.
I was aggressive
because there were rules about it, right?
And I also ended up having to be the star.
And so there was pressure
not to fall outside the role of the one
without problems.
Right.
Because my older brother had problems
and, you know, significant ones.
Yeah.
And so it kind of like ties
back into the broader
conversation that we feel expectations
and we start thinking,
what if what if I don't x, y, z.
That meets the expectation
and I would draw back to
something bad is going to happen.
I'm going to be left alone, right?
I'm going to be rejected or I'm going to
be reprimanded, something like that.
The one thing I, I have seen
and have heard
from parents is they don't
they don't always know how to talk
and have that conversation
with their kids.
They want to fix it.
They want to provide a solution.
And how how does a parent
initiate that hard conversation,
that challenging conversation?
How do they have that conversation
about what their child is feeling,
how they're feeling,
and what do they do with that information
once they receive it?
I mean, it's
like, again, I'm not a dad yet,
but I will wonder.
And, you know, I would love to get this
with a with my kid, but it's
I feel like you just have to
let the kid talk for me. It's
always care about what
people think, you know,
and you always think care about.
I don't have the right shoes
to go to school or my jacket is not good
when you're a kid
and then your haircut or whatever it is,
and it's kind of like what you are.
But if your parents especially,
I feel like don't care and don't judge or
and I see some time, you know,
at some kids games,
the parents got crazy on the sideline,
you know, and even care more than the kids
who are playing the game.
And you feel like
I don't want to talk about it because.
So you want the parents to be. Yeah.
Just to let the door open
for the kid to do it.
But that's a great question.
I'm not here
yet, and I might need an advice
on this
because, you know, when you
when I feel like you share emotion,
like I always say that when you are
emotionally attached to somebody,
sometimes it's so hard
to, you know, open up.
I don't know, like, it's
how I felt with my dad, you know,
and I can still sometime
tell him exactly how I feel.
I don't know, it's just
because of the now, you know, I'm old and,
you know, it's so hard to go
past your old abit you have to go through.
But especially about feeling as a man,
you know, crying and everything.
It's just I can't.
I got taught this since forever
with my grandparents, everything.
And you can't show, you know,
you can't show your emotion.
So I don't know it's just.
Yeah. Early stages.
I feel like as a child you need to do it.
Otherwise it's the same.
Then I think education, you know,
I sometimes
I get mad at kids who maybe doesn't
have manners, but I'm like, I can't.
It's because the way they grew, you know,
and where they grew.
So it's. Yeah, it's from an early start.
I think you need to like,
start doing the work of sharing,
you know, stuff with them.
Probably
if I can share a personal anecdote.
Sure.
We had trouble getting back to school
after the multiple snow days
in the long weekend, and my daughter was
Dragon Feet getting out to go to school.
I have a seven and a four year old.
Buckle up.
I'm like, what's going on?
And listen,
I went to school to learn how to do this,
and it's still challenging for me
as a parent, right?
When I'm in my office
and I'm working, it's much easier
because I'm not as fully into it.
What happened
was we're walking up to school and,
you know, I was like, what's going on?
And I was just trying to be patient.
And the patients paid off.
So I just said, you doing okay?
What's up?
And my seven year old said,
nobody cares about me, right.
And she's got some normal seven year
old stuff going on with other kids.
She really wants to be reassured
that everybody likes her.
Right.
And I just kind of tried to sit back
and listen.
I didn't have to fix it.
Trust me. I'm telling myself,
remember your training.
Remember your training.
Don't jump in.
Don't convince her
that she's wrong about how she feels
right, which is what it comes across
as when we try and problem solve, right?
It's telling me I don't feel the way
I feel or it's not as serious as that.
So we get to
the end of the day and I'm asking her
how she is and she's fine.
She just needed to feel it and let it go.
The feeling itself
wasn't a problem, right?
And there wasn't really
that bigger problem.
So it makes me think to like talking
to any parents that are in the audience.
You know, you pick your kids up,
they get in the car and you say,
how was your day? And what did they say?
Good. Is it good? Fine. Yeah, right.
And that's really frustrating as a parent
because you want to know more.
This is your kid. You care about them.
And it's hard not to interpret
that as like a stiff arm.
Right.
And really what it is is a kid
generally expressing if they're
not going to like gradually get into it
if you leave them the space.
I'm afraid of the follow up questions
and how you're going to tell me
my problems are totally easy
and solvable, right?
And whether they are or not,
when I'm the kid sitting there,
I don't want to hear that right.
My problems are real.
Yeah.
She didn't like me back, right,
I got benched, I missed the crucial shot.
Right.
How do you think it feels? It feels awful.
And when we problem solve away, we really
wipe out the space to just be vulnerable.
Yeah, right. That answers.
Yeah.
I'm curious.
Like, just,
you know, from both of your perspectives.
I mean, how is there is it better to say
less in the car ride home?
Or say more?
I mean,
I don't love the binary.
I think it's an important
set of goalposts.
Right?
I think one we have to take guesses.
So listen, my my mom is a psychology.
My mom's a psychologist.
My dad was a psychiatrist.
So we talked about feelings.
And I'll never forget coming home after
a game that we lost and I was in net.
I played goal and my mom said,
how did that make you feel?
And I was like, are you kidding me?
Right? It made me feel terrible, right?
And so even with all that training,
like you can kind of flub it, right?
And what I'm getting at is
that as a parent, you can take an educated
guess at what they're feeling and
think more about what do they need next.
So a lot of times
when I'm talking to parents
about how to help support their kids,
the car ride home is not a
time to do game tape review, right?
The only question I want you to start
with was, did you have fun?
Unless it's
patently obvious that they didn't.
Right?
And don't worry about I'm
packing the game right then and there.
And for players
like take some distance, like
maybe say,
can we talk about this when we get home?
Or can we talk about this tomorrow
and try and set that boundary very hard,
by the way, for kids
to take the lead in this scenario, right?
Kids are in a power down position
sometimes and they really feel like,
you know, I do need to make my parents
happy to some degree.
Yeah.
What do you say to the athlete
that feels like by expressing my feelings
that it's an excuse and I'm curious, like,
where is the balance?
Where is the balance between, again, sort
of going back to that helpful, harmful.
But where is the balance between know
you're okay,
that's just a normal process of what
you're supposed to be going through.
Time is important, right?
So we need some time
and space to have the feeling.
And we also
I think you're kind of alluding to this,
but we're seeing this thing
where we start to accommodate
negative feelings problematically,
where we need to feel it,
but we can't just lay down to saying,
I'm anxious and then game over, right?
Or I'm feeling depressed and there,
therefore I'm withdrawing from life.
In fact, it doesn't work to do that.
It actually reinforces those feelings.
And so there's a certain judgment.
There's no objective line to say,
like a week or a day or whatever.
But I think it really it's
when the intensity goes up and stays up
and doesn't go back down
and it starts to impact regular decisions,
it starts to impact
whether or not we do homework,
it starts to impact
whether or not we study for the test.
And so for for our kids.
Like I want you to think.
Am I staying focused on getting back to it
or something really bothering me?
And if you're not getting back
to regular life after a day or two,
you should try and find somebody
you trust to talk to
because that will help you unload
that stuff.
Hopefully, it's apparent
it can't always be a parent.
It might be a friend, a teacher,
therapist,
you know, those sorts of things.
But for parents, it's
also about like watching
and letting the kids take the lead
and show you with behavior more
than just like expression of the feeling
that something's out of whack.
Yeah.
Highest pressure moment for you.
Highest pressure moment.
Like you're a stunning storyteller.
And I'm curious
like if you can just for that listener.
Like, what is that highest pressure moment
for you.
To go talk to a girl the first time? No,
it was very hard.
I never talked to a girl before.
It was always hard to get the courage
to say hi, but not when I play.
I feel like your first game
as a professional,
the first time I've been in France
as a professional and you're on a field
and you start, you're like,
okay, that's that's
now it was one of the highest operational.
And when I remember
and as a kid is the first time
I got invited as a U18 to go train
with the first team.
They're like, hey, we need player,
you have to go and you to know
like, oh shit, and I have to go.
And I was zombie on the field,
I cannot move.
I was just so like shy and introvert.
Like everything came in as,
like a possible
so much pressure on me
that everything I was going to do
will be judged and I didn't.
I was not myself.
I was just so tense and everything,
and it was so much pressure.
And I remember that practice, I,
I cannot make a pass.
We pass, which I do every time.
And I make it like, no problem.
It was so much like hard for me,
but it was going from the use to like,
now you're going to be approved was like,
okay, you have to like show now.
How did you quiet that for yourself?
Like how does that.
How did you find a way
to be grounded in that moment?
Like you have nothing to lose
and it's not just one moment,
and it's what I told the kids.
Now I'm like,
you are going to miss so many goals.
You are going to miss so many paths.
And again, I'll go back to my sentence
like the truth of
today's not the truth of tomorrow.
It doesn't.
It matters,
but it doesn't hit the same time.
Like you, you are the one who decide.
So I tell that to myself that yes, maybe.
You know, I put so much pressure
because, like, I had a bad game.
All right, let's go to the next game.
Let's forget it's in the past, you know?
Now there's a game tomorrow.
Whatever I'm doing tomorrow,
people are just going to remember
what I did tomorrow.
Not the game,
you know, seven days a week prior.
So I always try to.
Yeah.
Re motivate myself
and try to work on myself in my game
and watch tape and talk to my teammates
and my coach about what can I do better.
But you, it's how you feel.
I feel like and like I was saying you
when I play and I always tell myself
that I'm so lucky in 48 to
I kind of
I bought a second career here in America
and play in a stadium with people
just watching me
because it's what I wanted since I'm,
you know, seven, eight years old.
So you asked me last time,
do I miss it every day?
Yeah.
What pressure do you live in right now?
I mean, try to articulate and speak,
you know,
perfectly in a mic
when I do a radio call for the team
so all the fans can understand me,
especially when there is emotion
and the game is, is going,
you know, in different ways. So I feel it.
I mean, I started my broadcasting career
now since 2018.
It was a union.
And the first few times it's it's tough,
you know, you don't see it.
But I'm sweating under my suits.
You want to make sure you talk
right on time.
You know, you
you have to be, you know, clear in your ID
even if you have,
maybe you have 30s or as a story of,
you know, you have the air in your head
and the producer could be your head
coach is in your head and say, hey, 10s,
before we go to the break.
10s it's an eternity.
But in your head, the first time you go
on the show, you're like,
I have one second to say so
you speak so fast.
Probably nobody understood me
first time I was on TV,
but it was, you know, it was a great man.
But you feel the pressure,
especially when you do something new.
He brings something, you know, different.
But again, I retired.
It was my dream.
The pressure of me
was just to stop playing
and try to find some things that I say.
You wake up in the morning
and you are happy to do,
and soccer is a big part of it.
I want to stay connected, especially with
this team, is a big part of my life.
But I wanted to do something
and now I think I found it.
You know, being a becoming
an IDP coach for the academy.
And I love doing the broadcasting
because they are still connected
to the game and to the fans.
And, and I'm, you know, I enjoy watching
every game, so why not talk about it.
So it's something like fun.
So yeah.
So it's
sort of my last I think my last thought
is, you know,
and I struggled with this,
and I think a lot of athletes struggle
with the idea of being able to separate,
like who they are as a person
in this idea or identity
surrounding what it is that they do
and the pressure that's connected to that.
And so you'll hear a lot,
all the time about who athletes are
when they're not in the kit
or they're not in the uniform.
And I'm I'm curious, like,
how do you separate that?
And, and and who is who is Sabr?
Who is Sebastian Latour
as just the person?
I mean, I'm definitely still a competitor.
If I play a board game with my nephew
or my wife.
I don't want to lose.
It's who I am.
I play a game, I want to win on the field.
Or when you are an athlete, it's what
you want to, but you want to be the best.
So you work out.
You try to,
you know, not listen to stuff around you.
You focus on your team
because it's a team sport.
It's not just you.
You have people around it.
And in my life
I am I'm still introvert less.
You know, like I told you, I'm
usually the one who now go talk to people.
I don't stay in the corner.
I'm okay to, you know, dance in a party.
You know, even if nobody dance,
I'll be the one dancing. But.
Yeah.
And, you know, I just like to talk
to people and kind of know them.
I'm a simple person.
I have social media,
but I don't really use a lot because,
again, I don't know how.
And like you say, it's
you might post something
and I don't want to have to deal
with a guy who say
something negative about which sometimes
it's just a positive thing.
But there's always people will tell
some things they don't like,
so I don't really post much,
but I learn who I am
and it's white on my wife every time.
Do I don't care
what people think I really do.
It's I am who I am and everything.
I go every time I do.
I always try to be respectful,
don't judge or criticize
or say something negative to somebody.
I don't know them so they can tell
whatever they want about me.
It's it's not going to bother.
What bother is how my wife sees me,
my future
kids, my parents
and all the people you know, I'm close by.
I care about making people feel good.
If you're a good person,
you know
a good thing I think happens to you.
So it's how I believe.
I can affirm that.
I think every time
that I've had the opportunity to walk out
onto the pitch and I see you like it is,
you always give a sense of belonging.
And I do think that anybody
that has the opportunity
to to know you
is pretty lucky.
And whether or not it's from a performance
and or just from a person and,
you know, sometimes no different than what
that coach said.
And they called you up and said,
you know, we want you.
I think even the best
athlete needs those words.
I think that having a sense of belonging
and purpose and feeling like you have a
home, and I will say out
loud, like,
I am incredibly thankful to you
when you do
that because you know, it's one thing
to play, you know, the sports that I play,
but you know, walking into someone else's
arena and spaces can be daunting.
So I'm thankful to you.
This idea of,
we have tagged into this conversation
and this intentional way of tagging out.
You know,
I just want to remind our listeners that,
you know, every time
you have an opportunity to look at sort of
the HEADFIRST initiative,
that these are skills
and tools
that I think our listeners can take away.
And I think the idea of not feeling alone,
not feeling like you're by yourself
and, you know, hearing your words
and obviously Doctor Baker
hearing sort of your expertise,
I know that that as I tag out.
I'm learning how to jump into a different
space of discomfort as we sort of
step through this podcast,
learning more about myself.
I think
it's easy to, to not try new things.
I think it's easy to stay safe.
I think it's easy to
to not put yourself out there.
And I'm thankful for you,
for your courage.
I will affirm everybody's
courage in this space, and my hope is that
the listener is able to really take
a couple things away from maybe
just one thing away from what we said.
So I pass it on to you
for any sort of closing reflections.
I was really pulling a couple things out
that you were talking about, say,
and I think the our listeners
who I'm incredibly grateful
for because sports for kids
is one of the greatest things there are,
and to be able to still be connected with
it is magical, right?
I'm I'm so blessed to be able to be here
and be a part of something where
we're trying to help that environment
so that gratitude is there.
I also think you talked about being able
to play with nothing to lose.
That's really hard for a 14 year old
who's got this dream of being a pro,
and it's really hard to set that down
when you get to the pitch right.
And it's also crucial we naturally think
in terms of outcomes, right?
The outcome
being I'm going to make it pro,
and that distracts us
from the current moment
and what we can control and work on
in the current moment.
For those guys who are out there, those
guys and girls who are out there playing,
you know, we want you to have the dream,
and we also want you to really focus on
what you can control
and the things you need to do
to give you the chance to get there.
I heard in your story
you weren't sure you were going to make it
and you let it come to you.
And that's how it happened.
And I think we have a way,
especially in America,
of kind of trying to control the outcome.
That's a natural response to anxiety
is to exert control.
It can also be a problem, right,
because we over
control it
and we do things that kind of cut corners
or press us to the point
where we can't relax and focus.
So, you know,
I think I'm just trying to wrap in like,
I love the dreams that we all have.
I also know they can exert pressure
and we need to hang on to the dream,
but know that like the moment right now
is not going to make or break it right
how you play today, how you did
play today, are you going to play tomorrow
is not going to be the only chance
you get to make that dream a reality.
I mean, I'm just going to tag out,
just you, you know, your question
put me a little bit emotional.
Didn't see any tissue here.
So I keep inside.
But yeah, I know just thinking about,
you know, my, my career and all the stuff
been through you,
you go back to those emotions,
you know, who comes to you and and I,
I will always be.
Will you change something about.
You know,
I don't think I would change anything
because it's who whatever you live in
who make you as a person as well.
So you can all the stuff
maybe with not as positive
but I think help me later on in
life about, you know, stuff happening
as a professional athlete, you know,
all the things happening when I was young.
So it was nice to share with you my story.
But again, it's a what happened with me
and we are all different.
You know, we all deal with issues
differently and yeah, hopefully
we can help, you know,
some of the youngsters out there
who can one day hopefully
play for the Philadelphia Union.
It'd be great.
I'm so thankful for, for our listeners.
And if if no one has told you both today
and into the listeners eye
and feeling all of this conversation,
and I think
my hope is that at the end of that drive,
that that drive home for
that family is just a little bit easier,
you know.
But I'm thankful to you
both. Yeah. Thank you, thank you.
Everything we talked
about today is educational,
not professional mental health advice.
If you or someone you know needs real
support right now, call or text 988.
That's the Suicide and Crisis lifeline.
Free and available 24 over seven.