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Social Justice - A Conversation
Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're listening to locally produced programming created in KU NV studios on public radio K, u and v.
Unknown Speaker 0:09
91.5. Hi, I'm Charles Stanton. I'm on the faculty of the Honors College at UNLV. And the Boyd School of Law.
Unknown Speaker 0:18
I'm Lana weatherald. I'm a third year law student. Welcome to social justice, social
Unknown Speaker 0:22
justice, the conversation conversation.
Unknown Speaker 0:27
Good evening, everybody. Happy Thursday. So we I mean, of course, there was another mass shooting in our country. But I don't think we need to cover that today. I think what we've said on that almost every show now for the past eight weeks, I'm going to have it pass this over to the professor, as we discuss, this is Tuesday, that the Dominion lawsuit between Fox News and dominion, the voting company that manufactures voting machines settled. So I'm gonna pass this over to the professor to give you all the details on how that how that shook out.
Unknown Speaker 0:56
Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Lynn. Yes. So dominion and Fox reached a settlement in their case, I'm sure it will take a while for all the particulars of that settlement to come to come out in public view, I would imagine that they got a rather hefty sum of money. And, of course, perhaps, either written or perhaps verbal apologies from some of the people who work on the network, or perhaps even the man who runs the network, himself. I don't know I had a, I had a problems with the settlement. From from my point of view, I realized that, that it is a business that, obviously, you know, there are monetary considerations and all of these cases. But for myself, I think that the public, even the public who seems to have been asleep, and in denial about a lot of the things that Fox was putting on the air, it might have been a jumping up to a very cold pool of water for them that they might have seen exactly who these people were, who were stirring them up to believe that the that the election was a fraud. And many of them, I think, wound up on January 6, than Washington DC, to storm the Capitol, basically, and without the conduct and actions of a few very brave law enforcement officers, actually and our democracy. So I have a habit, I have a problem with it. And as I was, we were talking off air before we came on here, it reminded me in one of the classes I teach at the law school, one of the films we saw had was diverted to Paul Newman. And there's a part of the verdict where Paul Newman, the attorney comes into the Cardinals office. And basically, they know that he's desperate for money. So they, they lay out to some settlement. And Paul Newman, who's who's so jaded and cynical, and all of it, he looks at the cheque and he says, you know, it says, if I take this money, he says that, you know, nobody will know the truth and the card and looks at him. And he says, Well, what is the truth, which is, which is kind of scary things, and he's supposed to be a man of God. But I think that's, that's, in many ways. The problem with our society is we don't we don't tell each other the truth. I think it was Montaigne, who said, a cynic is an idealist, who wants to be proven wrong. But I'll throw this over to Lana.
Unknown Speaker 4:02
I think, you know, what the professor and I were discussing before we got on air was very much you know, I think that this is a terrible thing that this is not going to go to a jury trial that all of this these details are not going to come to light, right that the nitty gritty of what Fox was doing and what the kind of misinformation they knew they were peddling to the public regarding election fraud regarding this insurrection regarding everything else, I think, yeah, it's terrible. But but my my greater concern is that it wouldn't have changed anybody's mind. I think that the sort of people that watch Fox News, those sort of people that believe in those ideals, the sort of people that espouse the beliefs that Fox News teaches them to espouse, would not have been swayed by a jury trial. You know, they believe that the entire judicial system is corrupt anyway. I mean, they don't believe in our institutions anymore. They're all you know, as sick as it may seem, because I personally believe in the judicial system. And I believe that Fox News should have been had their day in court and been held responsible in a way that wasn't just hush money and that you know, they've got enough of a revenue stream and capital that this doesn't, I'm sure affect them no matter what the number is. It is sad, but I don't again, think it would change whether or not this went to a jury trial or just settled like it did. I don't think it would have changed anybody's mind about what was going on Fox News, people that watch Fox News do not believe it's a disinformation mill of lies and cheats and steals. And the people that don't watch it, do you I don't think we anything about this case would have changed that either way, right? Unfortunately, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:21
Yeah. I had just a few days ago, I was watching the bombshell movie about, you know, the sexual misdeeds in at Fox, right. And, to me, I just see it, I just see, and this is my own personal thing. And I just see it as a bunch of guilty people buying their way out again. And, and and all of what you say is true regarding they're the people that follow them, but to to maybe a person who doesn't follow Fox or maybe to an independent person, or a person basically, who has doubt in our institutions. It's just another example of how the wealthy and the well to do are continually not not just not held accountable. We're seeing it I'm gonna segue into this. We're gonna, we're gonna see it. We're seeing it with the Supreme Court now, where we have gentleman on the Supreme Court, who has basically not been truthful with the American public.
Unknown Speaker 6:31
Well, which one? Well,
Unknown Speaker 6:34
we'll start with Clarence Thomas. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 6:36
we talked about that a little bit last week. And I, you know, my opinions on it, you know, don't really change. I think, once again, we have a situation where, you know, people who believe in Clarence Thomas and believe that that he has restored you know, the sanctity of you know, female birth in this country are not going to care. We saw and I think I discussed at length last time, their narrative is oh, these are some gifts. You got, you got rich friends don't get you don't hang out with rich friends and do what they do. I mean, they flippant about it. The right is flippant about it. So again, these are people that whose minds you are not going to change. These are people who Clarence Thomas could probably commit murder in broad daylight, but he was the one who got read a row. So who cares, right? And that's it. And that's where these people are at.
Unknown Speaker 7:15
I find it interesting, though. In 1960 711, justice, a Ford has had to resign from the court, who he was an adviser to Lyndon Johnson at the time, it was about $20,000. Right? This is merely I mean, we quantify and then and then, and then the house, the house and the real estate that he owned, which he sold to this man, the House and the real estate really being worthless. He made a huge killing on that, then the house is redone. And the mother is living in the house, rent free. I mean, come on here.
Unknown Speaker 8:00
But listen, he is that's a microcosm of the larger issue. You remember, members of Congress left and right. I don't know what the percentage is. It's high. It's crazy. It would disturb anybody who hadn't looked at it previously, right. But the amount that are trading and selling their stocks making money off of things they know are gonna happen before they happen, you know, doing deals with lobbyists, then then they pull out this stock and trade. That's, and this is all, you know, they're all making money off of us. They're all in those positions and making money off of those positions. And I think Clarence Thomas is especially egregious because it's the highest court in our land. Right. And you said you're held to a certain responsibility as a Supreme Court justice sitting for life, but you're doing it don't do it. And when it's all part of the, you know, the old guard of people were so little this do a little that do a little under the table. I'm not surprised, and I'm not surprised that we'll get away with it. And he will. And he will.
Unknown Speaker 8:49
It just amazes me though, because it's not really a conservative liberal thing. No,
Unknown Speaker 8:55
across the board girls. Oh, yeah. Because
Unknown Speaker 8:57
like, Justice Scalia had over 200 trips. Justice Breyer had over 180 trips. How do you travel? Right? Are you ever home?
Unknown Speaker 9:08
Are you ever working? You know, it's children, or grandkids? Yeah, it's baffling.
Unknown Speaker 9:14
It's mind boggling. But anyway, on a more serious, more serious note, the continued bizarre actions to put it mildly, of our police once again, come out. We had a situation in Akron, Ohio, where it was a traffic stop, again. A misplaced license plate or broken window or whatever. Whatever excuse was used to stop this person. The person supposedly had a gun and fired a shot. The person fled And the person was killed. The black person was killed, there were 94 shots. He was hit 46 times. You know, I made it a certain point, we have to just tell it like it is. It's the color of a person's skin.
Unknown Speaker 10:18
You know what my theory is? You know, I think it's more of a cop problem. I will obviously racism isn't in all of our institutions whenever it you know, I'm a big believer in critical race theory, but it's a cop problem. You know, it's 9494 shots. You know, it's it's beyond mind boggling at this point. Now, it's systemic and how our police are trained, there is no reason that any amount of training couldn't have gotten that out of a person. You know what I know where you need to shoot 94 shot, you're not a keeper of the peace. You're not Who are you doing that? Are you? I mean, it's out of control. And I, you know, yes, obviously, I if I believe that person was me, you know, a little blonde white woman running and grabbing from the cops do I believe I would have been shot 46 times? Absolutely not. So you're right, that all of it does boil down to race 100%. But had the police not been you know, doing community policing, instead of running plates and trying to find a reason to pull people over and meet their stupid quotas, then this would have never taken place. So I think, yeah, I always want to harken back to how why are we trusting people that are supposedly our protectors, the keeper of the peace with rifles that have the capability to shoot 94 times? That just doesn't make a lot of sense to me? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 11:27
well, of course. And, you know, it's also the grand jury too, though. Because as an average citizen, you don't have to mean you don't have to be a lawyer. You don't have to be a doctor. You don't have to be whatever you are a something should jump out at you there. Right that their response to what this man did, right? is so completely out of proportion. And we've seen this, we've seen this so many times. And then and then on top of that the case, the case in Missouri where the young man was supposed to pick up his brother, he came to the wrong address. The man 19 Yes, boy, 1919. The man shoots through the door, shoots him in the head critically injured critically, then he shoots him when he's laying on the ground. And it took him a few days before them to actually turn themselves in Tuesday morning. Yeah, finally he took the turn himself in. But, you know, what is that about, though, that the man was the one
Unknown Speaker 12:34
or what and I'll harken back to maybe that's not even a race problem, either. This very same week. And I don't know what state had happened in a 20 year old woman pulled into the wrong house trying to do like a U turn, you know, where you turn into someone's driveway to get on the other side of the road, right? She turned into the wrong driveway this time. And she was shot, this woman was killed. And I believe it was this week as well. So this is people in this country are so fearful of one another so scared of a stranger do not know how to interact with another do not have this sort of kindness and well to do when this. You know, you talk about a lack of morality. Certainly that's a part of it. You know, when someone's pulling in and again, how was that about race? This was a you saw her she looked like Tinkerbell. I mean, this is not someone you think would come in and storm your home, you know, but she was shot and killed. So this is about I think the fear that has been stoked in the American public about thy neighbor. And then you're, you aren't those people. So you have people that are stoked with fear people that are constantly terrified of one another, and people with different belief systems are better people that don't look like them. And then you arm those people to the teeth. Yeah. We're gonna see more of this. Yeah, we have seen more and more and more of this. But the same, you know, obviously, I think racial race was certainly a factor in what happened with this 19 year old boy, but it is a larger problem that we aren't people that are terrified of one another.
Unknown Speaker 13:47
Yeah, yeah. And then, then the third. The third story was the story in Oklahoma, where they had I guess it was a city council meeting. And they have one newspaper in this locality. And I guess they were reporting a lot of the news that the city fathers or elders didn't want to be reported. I'm sure. So the guy apparently in some way, recorded one of these meetings. Well, yeah, after the meeting supposedly was over. And it was basically they were talking about cooking the ghosts of the reporters who worked on the newspaper, and the good old days when you could have saw black people and killed black people, and then talking about how the good old days are over and these people have rights now. So
Unknown Speaker 14:42
all the time they undesirables these people that's I mean it
Unknown Speaker 14:44
it's, I had a very interesting experience last week. I was at the gas station. I guess it was Chevron on on Sahara and, and Maryland Parkway and there was a woman What a little child. And for
Unknown Speaker 15:03
those of you don't know, Sahara in Maryland, it's a pretty busy corner in Las Vegas.
Unknown Speaker 15:07
And this woman, I don't know what the truth was that she was sincerely poor, or she didn't have any money. I didn't even know what it was. But she said that she lost her money. She said, and, you know, she was hungry. And she has, she has a little kid with her. Okay, so I was as I was standing by the car, I just was observing all the people who she interacted with, right? Who, who looked at this woman, like she had two horns and the tail. And this is where our society is at. We have just like, as you were just saying, a fear of other people. But a deep a deep rooted. I don't know like putting down other people and judging them.
Unknown Speaker 15:53
It's, it's, a lot of it doesn't how, what are the institutions that allowed that woman to get there? Why do we not have the social safety nets that allow a woman and a child to have you hanging out in a gas station, a busy street corner and a major metropolis city? Like, we don't look at? why did why are we here? It's that woman is it you know, that woman is the problem, that woman is not that we have, we have a country that is so deteriorated and how we view humanity and what we believe comfort should be and what a standard of living should be in this country that we don't view. The real issue, the real issue is not that woman or being there with a child or being at the gas station, the issue is that we have institutions that have eroded to the point where that woman has gotten there. You know, and I think that, again, I want to Yeah, when the professor brings up these specific things, I feel like I'm trying to always relate it back to some larger issue. But it really is all these institutional problems that don't get addressed that lead to these traumatic horrific events, whether it be a shooting, whether it be a woman that you see the homeless on the side of the street, whether it be you know, some girl getting shot, because she pulled me, that's what you see here. So I yeah, I just want to address what I think the larger picture to be here. And that's institutional failure. That's, you know, that's the problem.
Unknown Speaker 17:00
No, it's true, though. And we, we have a problem in our country with our major problem is indifference. Now we see these things that were in front of us, but we don't want to let our heart act on them. And I just, I just took what was seen in I, I don't want to have my pocket. I just went over to her. I said, Here's whatever it goes with one $10 $20 Whatever it was, I said, you know, get yourself something to eat. And then and then she goes to the McDonald's. They're right. Just hungry made me feel sad. Right, just hungry made me feel sad. And, of course, you know, as you say, so correctly, this has gone on for a while now. We're, we're in we're a society that's into themselves. Yes. I mean, it's about me what I want.
Unknown Speaker 17:53
And then I think we've talked about this ad nauseam on the show, but I think it bears repeating that when you are so active on social media, and you're so active on these webs, a dehumanizes people, people are no longer someone you need to help on the street, you don't see have that human that human connection, you don't look someone in the eye, you don't feel that sort of, yeah, that humanity, when you're on a screen, people are reduced to nothing but an avatar, they're reduced to some sort of online presence. And, you know, obviously, your friendly neighbor pulling into the wrong driveway or the woman in the street, you don't know their online presence. They don't have X amount of followers, they don't mean as much to these, especially the younger generation where that's how they grew up. And that's how they you know, derive value from people. So yeah, yeah, I think this is only going to get worse. As we become more and more online. more in tune with this AI garbage that I get. There's a whole nother shoot for us to get into. But I think the more we develop and become more chronically online, we're going to see this sort of detachment from one another on a physical and human level. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 18:52
yeah. Well, I think I think that definitely ties in to the mass shootings. Like I guess it was on Saturday night, they had the shooting in Alabama. They had like 20 people shot five or six days five or six critical. And it's just like an acceptance of it, though. That's the scary thing about it. Like, you know, something is wrong. And maybe that's the problem, too, that our sense of right and wrong, has just like evaporated. So when we see all these inequities that are committed against people, they're having a big expos a now about the migrant children and how the migrant children were being treated during the Biden's predecessors administration, and all the warnings they got from the you know, the family health and people who are in the pediatrics field, about the damage that was being done to these children. It meant nothing to them.
Unknown Speaker 19:53
I think and I want to be careful because at a certain point, if you keep consuming the trauma and you keep consuming the realities and you keep consuming all the the horrors that our institutions and our government and our people have allowed. It does sort of create a trauma, like a panic, they'd be in this fear that I keep talking about, I mean, constantly having to intake all of this news that is horrendous, I mean, murder after murder, after mass shooting after, you know, horrible sexual assault after this sort of protection taken away after the I mean, what we consume on a daily basis is horrible, nothing like what we used to even you know, 2030 years ago have to consume online on the media, just, you know, from people day to day, it's really terrible. So I think, you know, you want to be careful, because at a certain point, apathy is necessary, because if you get too involved, it'll consume you. And it's so terrible, and then you you can't fix it all and you can't. So it is so terrible that I do get how people can just step away and can be apathetic, because if you, there's a lot of people that one don't have the capability, the resources, the time to change things. And if they think about it too much at all, you know, they're not going to send their kid to school, they're not going to want to participate in society. Because if you're really looking at it, the fear would be justified in my mind, and you couldn't even get on with you couldn't get out of bed if you thought about it too much. So I do think a level of removing yourself from the horrors of what goes on in this country everyday might be necessary for some people. Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 21:21
yeah. I think the the reaction or the inaction of the congresses, that's right, isn't it? Right? It's very disturbing at a certain point. I mean, correct. When you when you when you see the rapidity of these things, especially in the cases in the schools. And I guess we were talking a few weeks ago about the woman who had been in Highland Park, Illinois, right. And she, she and her son were there, they were almost killed. And then she comes down to visit somebody. And there's a mass shooting in Nashville, right? So she goes from one thing to the thing, and the woman is out there. And you have all the media assembled. And this woman, this one woman, is the voice of moral outrage. And a country of millions and millions of people who are gotten this thing wrong there, though, there's something that's like, it's our ability to feel and our ability to, to have empathy.
Unknown Speaker 22:25
And I think so much of it, though, too, is just distrust in our elected officials to do anything about it. You know, how many we have been screaming from the rafters? I think anybody who's anybody has been calling for sensible gun control. You know, anybody who doesn't believe that NRA Blood Money is what should keep this country breathing. I think it has some sort of, you know, had some sort of feeling about gun control one way or the other and really wants you under to see it push. But at a certain point, when you've been crying for it for so long, and your elected officials have done nothing, and don't care, and keep accepting the NRA blood money, what can you do? Yeah, and we have we have taken to the streets, we have good thought No. And but then we're like we're rioters and looters? Yeah. So it just doesn't, what do you do? What do you what do you do? Well,
Unknown Speaker 23:07
I think what I've said this to you before, and I think we need, I think we need to start from scratch. I think that's what we need to do. I think what we need to do is have a have a second constitutional convention, I think what I think what we need to do is we need to get together, all the people of all the groups of all the ethnicities, of all the religions, as many as you know is manageable, bring them to a place wherever they would live with Philadelphia, or wherever it is, and have them get to know one another, spend time with one another room with one another, discuss the issues that are we are facing as a country and try to work out in some way, irrespective of the Congress or any of those people. A way that we can go forward and to become a healthy, prosperous society. Again,
Unknown Speaker 24:10
you know, Professor, I think that's wonderful if it would work in practice, but I just think we're too polarized. We're far too polarized. I think that what we got is what we got, and I don't think we could ever change it. I mean, we have a country right now where you have people that genuinely believe someone that you know, aborted a six week old bundle of cells is a murderer. We could never reconcile those people with other people that understand that that's women's healthcare. We can't reconcile someone that believes healthcare is equals murder. I don't think those two people could get in a room and ever see eye to eye. I don't think anybody that believes that corporate tax rates should be you know, basically nothing while people on the street like you saw earlier starve are ever going to see it. You know, I just we're too far gone. I believe we're too far gone is sick and sad as that seems. So I think all we can do now is survive and try to convince the crazies to stay out of office and make sure that people that really, you know, you hate to be one of those people that harkens back to like vote, go for Oh, but go vote, because the other people that have power or people that are power, I don't think we can redo this. I think we're too.
Unknown Speaker 25:05
I don't know, though I maybe it's the Sagittarian than me. But, you know, my experience in teaching is, and I've had in some of my classes, people who were, they were very opposed to what I was saying even though they were there was a course on social justice. And and I reached with a few of them. A sort of a, I wouldn't say agreement, but I sort of reached with them. A way of looking at things maybe a
Unknown Speaker 25:38
little bit, but at that point, you had a person that had already taken the LSAT and probably done pretty well a person that had a certain GPA, a certain a certain person whose brain worked a certain way, right? I hate to harken back to like old stereotypes that are bad, but there is a certain person out there that can't do that and could not be convinced in that way. It doesn't have the critical thinking skills. It I feel gross saying that. But it's true. That could get could do those things or understand these concepts. And then I think there are certain people on this planet if you brought in every group, right, that aren't Nazis, that our shirts truly do not believe black people deserve rights believe we can bring back lynchings, those people would be in the same room as people who believe you know, when trans rights, it just wouldn't. I'm so scared for our country, because I believe that I don't believe we could all get into a room and agree on anything. But truly, I believe we're that polarized. And I think you have the best we can do now is make sure that whether you are on the left or right that the most sensible people are who we're electing. And, you know, people will disagree with me, because I see a lot of rhetoric online about you can't just tell people to vote anymore. We need to take to the streets substantive change and become, you know, whatever. But Vote. Vote.
Unknown Speaker 26:41
Yeah, I get I get I guess, you know, I think back to In the Heat of the Night, though, where, you know, they have this racial division in the movie, and he comes down there, and he's arrested wrongly. And they reached they reached an understanding though. It was now this is a 1967 movie. So this is a while ago, they reached an understanding. And maybe the big problem is that we're not curious about what other people think, I
Unknown Speaker 27:13
think, right. And I think it's bad of me to say that I believe certain people are unreachable. But with the kind of rhetoric you've seen espoused now, I mean, truly murderous level intent for other people and that level of you know, that's not fixable. And, you know, I just I hate to be that person. That's to some people are not redeemable. But what we have gotten there, I think the kind of things we're seeing espoused not only online, but in the streets, the kind of action we're seeing these people taking. We need to be very, very wary of our fellow man not too hard not to be, you know, fear mongering that I'm so scared of before, but we in a way that we didn't have to in the 60s in the 70s. I mean, they're scary people out, there's the big George's out there. They they're, they're real, and they're out there. And I just Yeah, I don't believe that kind of stuff is pretty viable. Or
Unknown Speaker 28:03
maybe maybe the problem is, too, though, that we we just react toward things, rather than having a plan. In other words, what like, for example, what happened in Charlottesville, right? Or what's happened in a lot of these mass shooting situations? There's an initial response. Yep. You know, George Floyd, what have you, right? And then, after a wild dusting, sort of, you know, cools off for a while, but I definitely, I definitely think, though, that there needs to be some kind of a coordinated program. I'll say this, and I think I've said it before, I think one of the problems why social justice, in its aims has largely failed, is because we have too many groups. At the same time, I think what we need to do is we need to have one or two groups, combining all the different social justice causes. And everybody gets together under that umbrella. And in that way, the cause of women is my cause. And the cause of another group would be your cause intersectionality and intersectionality. And you wouldn't have it were basically, people, they have the right intention, but they really don't communicate too much with the other people who are suffering, just as they are only in a different
Unknown Speaker 29:32
color. And the causes are the same. I do think that that's a good note for us to sort of end this show on is, you know, my causes as a woman are similar to the causes of every other marginalized person, they're different, but they're, they have the same underlying and that institutions will try to keep us down and that it's going to be difficult for us to rise ranks and that there's going to be ways that are more difficult for us than they would be for just the straight white man, which has obviously been the dominant force in this country for 200 plus years. So I think to realize Is that not that the black struggle is the gay struggle is the woman's struggle, they are all different and nuanced, but they require sort of the same level of action and overhaul of institutions. And I think if we just understand that the same goal is we need to overhaul the institutions that were built to keep us down. Yeah. But there definitely is something to be said for that being the right way to go. So with that, we hope we left you with some food for food for thought about intersectionality. And remember that the show is always going to be on Thursday. For the next couple of weeks before I graduate here, we want to make sure you're catching our last few shows. Thank you for tuning in. And we will see you guys next week. Thank you.
Unknown Speaker 30:38
Thank you and good night.
Unknown Speaker 30:39
Thank you for listening to our show. If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact us at weather one. That's w e t h e l one@nevada.unlv.edu. Or to contact Professor Charles Stanton, contact him at CHA R L E S That's Charles dot Stanton. s t a n t o n@unlv.edu CNN axon
Transcribed by https://otter.ai