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We’re thrilled to have the extraordinary Alex Nikjoo, the creative force behind NIKJOO, a trailblazing architecture and interior design practice featured in Dezeen and more.
Curated content, insights and opportunities to accelerate your career in Architecture, Design, Development and Real Estate to the next level.
Infill, Inspire, Innovate: Exploring Non-Traditional Architecture with Alex Nikjoo
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[00:00:00]
Stephen Drew: Hello everyone. It's a Thursday. Almost there. One more day for the weekend. I hope you're ready. Cause me and I do some cool design stuff in a minute. You'll see what I mean. I've known this guy for a while. He's done better than me. Got his part three. That helps. Okay, cool. Nearly there. 20 seconds. My goodness.
It's hot. Ooh, I had to turn the fan off for this. Livestream, but don't worry, I'll make it eight seconds.
Hello everyone. Welcome to this live stream on a Thursday, and thank you for joining us because this is gonna be a really cool one. Now, I've known [00:01:00] Alex for a few years. I met him years ago with his beautiful portfolio when he was a part two, Architectural Assistant. And since then Alex has gone on to awesome and great things.
Now also as an accomplished Architect designer, he can teach us some stuff. But if you haven't met Alex, I'm gonna introduce him to the stage. Alex, how are you? Are you okay?
Alex Nikjoo: Good. Yeah. Very well. Thank you very well. Thanks for having me on. Stephen.
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Alex Nikjoo: again. It's been a little while, but yeah. We've known each
Stephen Drew: Yeah, we keep upping into each other every few years. It's all good this time. Live in front of people but that's okay. Now, Alex, if someone hasn't met you before, tell us briefly about yourself then, who you are and maybe a little quick background, and then we'll jump into all the cool stuff you do.
Alex Nikjoo: Sure. I'm Alex an Architect. I've been living and working in London for, oh, since part two. 14 years or so, something like that. And that's probably when we first met actually. But yeah, London based, I've [00:02:00] worked in other countries as well. So before setting in London, I was in New York and over in Beirut, Lebanon.
Nice sort of different experience from some other countries, which is nice. And now I'm here. I run a small design practice, Nick Drew. We work on lots of residential buildings, some commercial stuff, some interior stuff, some shops and that type of thing. And yeah working at it and trying to build some nice stuff.
Stephen Drew: You, you definitely do build my stuff. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna bring up your work in the second. Now I obsess about your surname Nick, too. I just think it's really cool. However I know that's the name of the practice. You do
Alex Nikjoo: I didn't get to choose it,
Stephen Drew: Yeah. But it's
Alex Nikjoo: have you not given it?
Stephen Drew: It's a nice one, isn't it?
There we go. I'm gonna bring up your website now and people can click on it as well, but tell me a little bit, Alex cuz no. This project some people might have seen on design and stuff, but tell me about maybe when you started setting up your practice. Was this the first project that you did or was there a few [00:03:00] others as well?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. So this one was actually the project which allowed me to start the studio and huge sort of thanks to the clients at the time who really took a bit of a gamble on me. But I was working at another Sort of boutique practice at the time. And had worked on a lot of residential work and I'd become quite friendly with these clients.
They ran a, the blue set hair salons which I've worked on as well. I think there's another project on the website. And they bought this amazing building in Deford. It was a sort of disused chapel. It was being used as an artist studio, but it was in such a bad state that needed a full renovation.
They bought it. I was friends with them and they took a gamble on me, which was, I'm very thankful for. And this allowed me to start studio and we transformed it from being a real wreck into an artist, studio, gallery and house. So behind that, which is the sort of mezzanine kitchen area.
There's a, there's three bedrooms [00:04:00] and bathrooms and so on. Back behind there. With a new, with a roof terrace as well. So they've got some outdoor space, they've got some workspace, living space and sleeping space, of course. And what, being young, being ambitious with this one, it was all about how do I make this work?
What can we do that's interesting about it? So there's basically as little steel as possible being used in it. All of that mezzanine is all timber and a cantilever or something. The engineers, s d. Construction UMD structures. Sorry, I should really know what that is. Great to work with as well.
And yeah, became a really nice project and a huge learning curve. But came out well, actually has new o occupants, new owners who I'm currently working with. We've almost finished it, so the. The original idea was to make this basically an off grid building. The original clients huge sustainability fanatics, I would say They're really into it.
And we got to a point where when the budget allowed, we got [00:05:00] pretty much a sustainable as the budget allowed for the new owners. They've moved on. These clients and the new owners have taken on and they've taken a similar idea to it. So we've just installed new photovoltaics on the roof, air source, heat pump
Stephen Drew: Wow.
Alex Nikjoo: again, the insulation on the roof, cuz it's such a big span.
It is just so expensive at the time, but they've really gone for it. And now I'll be really interested to see what the data is, which comes back, but I think their bills are gonna be like, Low compared to what, especially right now is a big problem. So we're as close as we can be to, to off grid, which was always the ambition.
Stephen Drew: I love it. It's down the road, isn't it? You said it's in Deford, is that
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. That's right. That's right.
Stephen Drew: Very cool. Wow. So literally, so then you were doing this, you saw you, and on the back of this, and it was great. It got some press. It was, it's a beautiful project, right?
And so it, so did that propel you then, Alex, where you had the internal dilemma of, do I set up my own stuff? Is it now or [00:06:00] never?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah, so this was, quite a bit of moonlighting. It was, I was working in the practice, keep the bills, getting paid whilst doing this on the side. And of course I did it for such a low fee, but, that, that's, that was fine because it allowed me to get the building into portfolio. And once it got done, once I got the prayers, I was so excited.
I thought the ring, the phone was gonna ring nonstop. Of course it doesn't. But it did give me the emphasis to set up the practice and slowly, keep things moving and yeah, start, start from one project. You get two, you get three. And since then we've been able to build more and more, which is really exciting.
Stephen Drew: I love it and it's beautiful stuff and I think it's a good testament for for. Anyone can do it. It's just a lot of hard work, isn't it? I do find it funny though, Alex, like you said, this beautiful project was a moon lit project because that's a, that's not a classic conservatory or something. That's quite a big chunky project than the side.
Was it difficult juggling both at that moment, working nine to [00:07:00] five and doing this? Was there maybe some scenarios where you'd
Alex Nikjoo: you've gotta basically back yourself. To be able to do it. And there was loads of what's, how are we meeting, oh, we're meeting at 8:00 AM because I've gotta be in work at nine or meeting at seven because I've gotta be in work at nine. You go, you do your site visits and I'll, cycling off, but into Central London to work in a practice.
But you just make it happen. What's the alternative? No, no one's gonna. Just give it to you on the plate, so you gotta struggle a bit and make it work.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I love it. Now I'm spoiled for choice cause I think I'm biased. I think all your work is beautifully designed. Now, while we are on your website here, maybe I've, what's your favorite at the moment of the projects here? And then maybe we can just talk about it briefly. Which is your favorite
Alex Nikjoo: So the one on the right hand side to the chapel, the farmhouse, that's one that's not built. That's, we just got planning permission for
Stephen Drew: Ooh, the farmhouse.
Alex Nikjoo: farmhouse. Yeah. So there's only sort of one visual of it, but this is really exciting. You might have to zoom [00:08:00] in on, on that one.
Stephen Drew: Oh, I'll try. I'm not sure. I've mastered the zoom on stream now just yet. If we can wing it.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. Yeah. We'll wing it. This is this is, it is quite a humble project, but it's really exciting and because it's a new build farmhouse in the green belt just outside Oxfordshire. And A, it's exciting because I've never done a new building in the countryside. And b it's really fucking hard to build in the green belt.
Excuse my language.
Stephen Drew: Oh, don't worry. We're gonna get tape. The LinkedIn button's gonna go beep. No, we'll be all right. We'll be okay.
Alex Nikjoo: I get bleeped out, right? So yeah, so it's quite rare to get the build in the countryside planning reasons and so on and so forth. There's lots of reasons why you can't do it, but we managed to do it through a few planning loops that we jump through. And it's for an actual farmer and their family on.
So this is their farm, which they're going to be living on. And the idea is that, again, it's a super sustainable building. We're going to use locally quarried [00:09:00] stone for it as much recycled material as possible, and just create a house for a really deserving family who don't have, millions of pounds.
They're just putting what they can into it. And. It's allowed me to, to work on something outside of London, which is also very nice. And it's a really, it's gonna be a really fun project.
Stephen Drew: I think it would be beautiful. And listen, it's very interesting. Now I am gonna bring you slightly back to London for a second because before this you you told me you were doing a bit of infill projects as well. Now call me, I'm a bit naive, so I had to, I was like, is it those small houses in between?
But that's what you're talking about, Alex. So basically building a very skinny house. Which was in a spot, which wasn't a house before. Is that where in Phil is?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah, so it doesn't have to be skinny. It's just, it is really like filling in the missing parts of the urban fabric. So it's it's land which disused land. So maybe it [00:10:00] was once a. Car park, or maybe it was once a petrol station and it's not used anymore. It's you can think of it as brownfield sites, so there's probably been a use there or maybe it was garages.
And it's basically that's not, that's no longer used because people don't live in that way anymore, or it's not a viable business or whatever the reason is behind it. I don't really know. Why the previous business is no longer there, but it isn't, it's a disused land. It's probably been fly tipped.
And what I'm working with with a developer on this, on a few projects at the moment, and it's taking these small parcels of land building unique homes, which really fit to the constraints of the land and, Basically building homes which are much needed, especially in the capital and doing it in a really sustainable way, beautiful way.
And looking at using, different modern material methods of CL l t or offsite construction and so on. And there's lots of e every size different, so there's no [00:11:00] sort of one size fits all approach. You've gotta really take a, a. You gotta do a lot of research on the site in terms of how does it look what's the design aesthetic going to be?
What's gonna fit in with within this, that sort of space, but also thinking can we do CLT in this location because of the constraints of the road or the other buildings around it, and that type of thing. So it's taking each site as it's a unique plot and figuring out the best way, the best design that fits that space.
Stephen Drew: Oh, very cool. I I'm getting an education as well. It's funny you mention that because where I live in Lewisham used to be a garage before it was converted into. How is this? So it probably was a developer's dream now I'm quite, so you've got definitely a few things going on and we're gonna go on in a bit to talk about other ways that you are designing or innovating in the space.
But just before we do that right now, have you noticed, like any track, so since you set up Nick Drew, right? And you've had a few lessons and you've [00:12:00] made mistakes and all that stuff and had some wins, But have you noticed any trends? Is residential changing or is is there tending to be a lot more demand in the certain area?
Alex Nikjoo: There's a few, there's the aesthetic trends. So things such as like Pinterest and Instagram really define aesthetic.
Stephen Drew: Oh, really? So someone says oh, I want another one of that thing that you've done, and you're like it's a bit, it's a bit more complicated than that.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. Yeah. Is that, and or it's just thinking oh, this is really the algorithm is like pushing this on someone's feed, so they think that's the only design you think is that the right design for this space? And that's something which You need to work out and look at and maybe convince clients sometimes that there's a, there's an alternative way to do it.
So that's an aesthetic trend. But there's also, a really good trend of that. Like people want sustainable buildings and they are willing to put a bit more into them. Maybe there's some more upfront costs, but in the long term it's it's better for them, it's better for the planet.
So that's a really good trend, be in that [00:13:00] respect. Yeah.
Stephen Drew: And quick note on that. So it's interesting, so people do actually come to you as an Architect and go. Here's something I saw in Pinterest. I want it. That sounds mad to me.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. Or they like it is not ex maybe it's not like I want one of those. It's I want this thing, that type of aesthetic here. And a lot of it I get a bit. It can get old pretty quickly. Like some of the designs in my mind. And this is, just my view as a practitioner and as a designer, what we tried to build of n is like timeless buildings, which are gonna look good today and tomorrow.
And then, hopefully another 200 years if they can last that long. And that's a big part of the practice is ethos, is build, building home structures, buildings, which can transform over their lifetimes. So it's a lifetime of the owner, but like the building should outlast the owners. And this isn't a morose way.
It's just if you want to build sustainably, the building needs to last a long time. Which is. Victorian [00:14:00] housing in London. Like the house I live in is a Victorian house. There's 200 years old, which is extreme sustainable build. Okay. It's drafty, it's not insulated, but that those technologies didn't last, didn't exist at those time.
But let's take like the same approach, but do it, airtight do it really sustainably wrapped in good insulation, that kind of thing, but have the longevity view as well.
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Alex Nikjoo: Bit of a detour there, but
Stephen Drew: No, I love it. It's it's always fascinating to see what you think now. As well as all the beautiful design stuff you've done. I'm gonna bring up something a little bit that looks like, whoa, what the heck is, oh, I've gone to the wrong view. I've gone big there. Here we go.
So there's this other thing that you've been doing called Balanced as well, and I find that really interesting, twofold. So maybe, first of all, Alex, you can tell us what balanced is and then we'll get to why you've done it and stuff.
Alex Nikjoo: sure. So balanced is really simply, it's a [00:15:00] platform to make building projects fairer and more transparent. Specifically looking at the payments of buildings. And Lots of projects. The biggest hiccup that happens during construction is payments be and disputes happen because of that. And the idea is that this platform removes that problem from being there unless just PE people just build.
So that, that's what it does in a nutshell.
Stephen Drew: Very interesting. Now, for context for our video audio listeners. So balance is a platform you've made. Now, Architect, you tend to think initially someone that's designing houses, not making apps per se, but why not on the other hand, but I'm quite curious. So where did this come around from?
Alex, why did you think in your busy schedule, when you were hustling? Building your company. Where did you think, oh, go on. Then I've got to make this app.
Alex Nikjoo: So it happened because of a a good friend of mine who's one of the other co-founders. There's three of us, and he actually was getting a loft extension [00:16:00] done. And it just turned into an absolute shit show. I don't think you'd mind me saying that. It's just totally true. And I wasn't the Architect by the way.
He didn't have an Architect on it. And yeah, the biggest mistake, obviously. But the problem was that, They were paying lots of money and we're talking, for the average person, whether you lost 50,000 pounds, 20,000 pounds, or a hundred thousand pounds is a hell of a lot of money, right?
But they were paying all this money out 10,000 pounds here, there, 10, 20,000 pounds there, and didn't really know if they were getting what was meant to be the work that was meant to be done at that stage. And the builder keeps asking for money and then thinking The builder must know what they're doing properly, so they just keep shelling out all this cash.
And at the end they were like where's that money gone? And the builder, he didn't scarp her, he didn't get the work done properly on time. And by the end they had to get rid of him and get someone else in. And there was just no transparency with the payments on the whole process.
And he was asking me like, how does this work? And of course I said if you have an Architect, you have a QS on [00:17:00] board. They, we do it for you. We make sure, and a lot of, part of my job on a building site is to make sure the payments are fair for the builder and fair for the client as well.
So there's not a problem. And, but there just isn't something like this for smaller scale, domestic work where perhaps they can't afford a QS or they can't afford to keep the Architect on board to do the contract administration. What we thought there's definitely a gap. Here's definitely something that's missing and can help people.
And what? The way the program, the platform works. Is for each stage of payment. So you know who you wanna work with as a customer. You know which builder you want to work with, you know how much it's gonna cost. So you've agreed all of this stuff for each stage. And this is great cuz the video's explaining this, for each stage you put in that sum of money into a secure escrow account so the money's safe.
So as a customer, you haven't paid it into Joe Blog's back pocket. And the cus and the builder knows that I know if I do the work I'm gonna get paid cause I can actually [00:18:00] see that cash in that pot once the work's done. You both agree that stage of work's done. The customer comes along and says, yeah, that's fine.
I'm gonna release that. That pot of money to the builder. So at each stage of the process, you do this sequentially so that the builder knows they're gonna get paid if they do the work, and the customer knows that if they pay the money, they're gonna get the work done. And as part of that, our big commitment as well as, every payment you make, we offset some carbon as a part of your project as well which ties in nicely with the video there.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, perfect. It's really useful. Now I w so I, first of all, I was not aware it's a problem and we had a chat before as well cuz you mentioned something that actually builders and all this stuff have quite difficult mental health because of the situation around that. Can you go into that for the listeners?
Alex Nikjoo: definitely. So it's, we all think of builders as like tough blokes who, read the sun and just hard nuts, but that's just not true. [00:19:00] And it's just a, like a negative. Trope of h how the building professionals are and really, there's a lot of problems which they face in terms of getting paid.
And unfortunately, there's a lot of, there's quite, there's really high suicide rate and mental health conditions that are affected by simply getting paid. Because say you're a main contractor, you've got so many subcontractors, Laborers all your workforce to actually pay before you get paid.
So a lot of builders only make any profit on their final payment. So you've done, six months of work or say I'm a loft extension and the seventh month you're gonna get, okay, great, this is it. I've done all that. Six months, my seventh month, I'm gonna get paid. Gonna make some profit, gonna, check the kids on holiday, whatever it is, I'm just making it up.
But the client or the customer turns around and says actually, I don't wanna pay you. I've paid out all this money. I don't wanna pay anymore. It's not because they haven't worked well or they haven't, done a good job. It's [00:20:00] just because the customer just doesn't want to because they feel as though they've paid enough money and it's, that causes so many problems for builders. Hopefully this will help solve that in a small way. We're not trying to cure, we're not a cure. We're not saying that there's never gonna be any problems with payments and the construction industry, there's always cash payments, all that sort of under the table stuff that happens. And that's fine if people wanna do that, but we think that technology and.
Is there to allow people to not do that. I think people are a bit more savvy to knowing actually I'm spending a lot of money. I should do it fairly and make sure I know where it's going, and hopefully this helps.
Stephen Drew: I think so, and I'll say the domain for the audio listeners from the replay is www dot balance build now. Balance build, I should say. Now I almost got it wrong there. My goodness. But Alex, I'm curious, let what was [00:21:00] it like though, as an Architect designing an app and you got this idea?
Was that like a different kind of design approach to it that you had? And was it difficult at first?
Alex Nikjoo: It's a really interesting question. And I think if you can design a building, there's so many parameters and factors into designing a building. You can probably design anything if you really put some time into it. And I had to learn. Ux, ui and just general how to build an app. So self-taught on that and spent, spent some time, a few nights doing some research and just it like, continually iterative process.
So there's lots of really good free tools online which you can use Figma, Marvel. There's few, out there and. Basically think about it. I thought about it as a building. I was like, you step into your front door or you walk towards your front door, what do you wanna see?
And then you're stepping through your front door. What do you, where do you wanna go or where do you want to get led? No. When you design a building, it's all about a journey of navigating around it. And what can you see? [00:22:00] What can't you see? What are the materials, what's the feeling as you go through each space?
And that's the same on a digital platform. Whether it's a website or an app or a computer game it's all coming from the same ideas in my mind. So a learning curve in terms of how to do it. And I just applied my guess, my Architectural education to that.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, no, I hear you. That's where I get my kicks out of the Architecture. Social is I see it, it's another form of design. Business by nature is something that needs to be influenced and can be improved and all that stuff. So very cool. Now I think that's amazing. The other bit I wanted to touch on is that I had an unconscious bias towards builders, cuz in my head I always think the opposite that they are.
They get paid a lot. And actually you've gotta be careful with it. And I can't tell you, Alex, where I've got that from. I don't know where it's instilled. So it's really interesting to hear what you say and actually, pairing [00:23:00] all the laborers and stuff to get money. I would find that it's quite a scary scary thing to do.
It's basically like doing competitions in Architecture. You just hope it comes in, you're not getting paid for it. So I didn't realize that was a thing,
Alex Nikjoo: yeah, there, there are contracts and every builder should be using a contract to ensure that they do get paid, but. It's it's the time and effort to enforce a contract. You gotta go to court, you gotta go or arbitration court or whatever it is, your mediation. Lots of avenues. Do you have time as a contractor who has maybe four or five projects on to do that?
No. You don't. The customers don't have time. Vice versa. That's why it's easier just to say we've lost a bit of money, we'll get someone else in to fix it because do you have time? Do you have the f do you wanna spend the effort doing it? Probably not. And hopefully ba, a tool like balance will just alleviate that problem.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, really well said. Now you, it's interesting because you've done a hooray, you made an app [00:24:00] and it's amazing that you've done that. And I think it's a testament to the architect's ability to overcome any problem you have. And now's a good time with tech that you can make apps, which.
Generally are fit for purpose on the theme of technology. Now, AI is a big thing at the moment. Ai, everyone's panicking, celebrating all this stuff. I'd love to know your perspective or initial thoughts on, in 2023, artificial intelligence whether image or text and all that stuff. Has it started leading into your business yet, Alex, or not quite?
Do you have any thoughts on that kind of topic?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah, sure. AI is a really useful tool and I think as long as you think of it as that and work with it and let it improve your life, then it's a really positive thing. There's, of course, the horror stories are like being take, taken over by ai. I don't think we're there yet. And I [00:25:00] think we're, I was having a conversation with a with a scientist about this.
They're a sort of it's actually my dad who's a retired physics professor. And he was like we're just not there yet. And it's gonna take quite a long time before AI will will get to a point where there's enough neurons for it to self think, to a point where it takes over the world.
And we'll probably not need to worry about that in our lifetimes. But I think using something like chat g p t is like really useful. You can write. You can just write stuff so much faster. If there's like a press release you need to write and, that does, that's a tool there to do that, or you wanna write a bio, you can do that and it can help you and it's probably does it better than you could.
Even if you took five hours over it. So the way I've been using it is to help with like different posts bios and just like text switches needed, it is generative. So it gives you the right steer. Then you of course need to edit it and [00:26:00] improve on it cause it's never perfect first time.
But it's it's really useful for that.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree. I try to use it as much as possible to do the rudimentary stuff cuz then it gives you more thinking capacity towards the stuff where yeah, you are right. You need, you just can't whack that into chat G P T. So very interesting.
Alex Nikjoo: the other thing that's really useful for is the amount of hours you spend scrolling the internet or scrolling through books to try and find like the perfect precedent. Image is probably the longest part or no, of doing a presentation is definitely the longest part of just finding that right image. You can use AI to create that image for you. And that's, isn't, it is not a precedent cause it's not built before or it's not, hasn't been created before. But it is a precedent because it's just showing you a good example of what that idea is you're trying to convey to your client.
And so that's a really useful thing to do.
Stephen Drew: I agree. And even in the one year since like it's a mid June is one of the [00:27:00] versions of it, and even in the one year since I've been out, I seen it out. It's just gone so, so much better. And like you said, There's a, there's an art form to basically put in the right stuff in the command line to get a certain output, which and it sucks up information on the internet, isn't it?
So basically it might know, because you've been practicing for a few years, what Nick Ju building is, which, where it gets really interesting and scared and some people get scared by it. I agree with you. It's a tool to be used, but What I was gonna ask you is, so obviously when you started doing this, these tools weren't around.
I was just wondering, cuz there's probably a few listeners on this podcast who have, and maybe in that moonlighting stage or switching over, do you have any advice for people, Alex are that you'd recommend they do or don't do when setting up a business for the first time?
Alex Nikjoo: So two sides of that. A is like the setting up the business, which is [00:28:00] the, unless you're into it, of course, it's like the boring side, but it's a very important side of Just make sure everything's done properly. Make sure your taxes are right. Make sure you're licensed correctly.
You've got your insurance you're doing your CPDs and all this kind of stuff. Don't neglect that cause it'll just come back and bite you. That's the. The MBA side of things, the business affairs. But then there's also like the having fun and just plunging into it and just like really going for it.
You if you worry that you're gonna mess it up, you're never gonna get it done. And so you just gotta form really good relationships with your clients and your builders cuz what else you are, whilst you're going through the whole design process. It's all about gaining your client's trust. And I think that's something that we've been good as a practice at doing is just like getting clients to believe that we're on their side and we want to build a good thing just as much as they do.
But then when you should get to building on site, you gotta [00:29:00] really get the builders to trust you and you to trust them and say this is a collaboration. It is not about pitching me against you. And bullying them. It's about saying let's build this together. Let's make a really good building for a lovely client.
Let's get paid. Cause that's, a big part of the process as well. But make sure that everyone has the same goals and out and wants the same outcome.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. Farran.
Alex Nikjoo: The projects which are on that, on my website are the ones which that's happened and we've had a good process throughout the build in general, but won't mention some of them.
But that's generally the process. And that's the way, way to get things built.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, said. Now, Karen dropped a quick and message saying I joined in late. Don't worry. No problem. But I have a question that by builders, are we talking about contractors and developers? So what is your definition, Alex, of a builder? When we were talking about your app before and all that stuff.
Alex Nikjoo: So builders are, yeah, contractors in that definition, I think they're just used interchangeably. At least I do. [00:30:00] Developers are sometimes builders and contractors, but generally they're a separate entity. If you just think it as like a separate company, a build, there's a building company who's a contractor and there's a developing company.
Stephen Drew: Yeah. Said. I think it's really interesting. But I was gonna, what was I gonna ask you? I got thrown off, I was gonna ask something in particular. Maybe while it comes back to me, do you wanna ask me a quick question? Actually?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah, sure. I. Similarly, you built the Architecture Social and what was really the background to doing that, and it's such an impressive site and platform that you built so far. It'd be great to hear just a little bit about like why you've done it and
Stephen Drew: Yeah, sure. So it's a bit like you with the app. I just felt like maybe there was a need for something and in recruitment you see a lot of stuff behind the scenes, but bizarrely I've tackled the done recruitment more than I've ever been an Architectural Assistant, I can't say cause I wasn't an Architect, [00:31:00] but and but I think though, when you. Go into Architecture, you have that design thing. I don't know. You just, you go to study it because you are intrigued. You wanna problem solve, essentially that's where the building is solving problems manifested physically. This is a problem in terms of professions because okay, you set up your business now, but you mentioned before when you were moonlighting all this stuff, you've been there.
Looking for jobs and all this, and it's an interesting world and you are in limbo and it's hard to find a contract and or a permanent role, and then you go somewhere you like it and not, so it really was trying to entangle it as much as possible, a little bit like your app, and just be like if we can bra, b basically extrapolate the problem and make it easier for people, then maybe it'll be a good thing.
And so that's really where it comes from. But I'm still learning all the time. And the big pro thing that, the problem I have at the moment, Alex, is that, so I've hired someone who works alongside me, which is great. But I get a lot of messages that's [00:32:00] very hard to reply to everything. So I'm still learning and trying to delegate and growing a business is very, Tricky.
I love it. I think you've gotta be crazy to do it. So anyone listening here my, currently, if I'm caught down the pub and someone says to me, should you set up a business? I always say, you have to be completely barking mad to set up a business, but I love it.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed.
Stephen Drew: I think it's a complete, it's a complete handful.
But, half of it's perseverance as well. And doing this now, I enjoy it being out there and it's interesting to see where the conversation goes. Actually, I remember what I was gonna say to you.
Alex Nikjoo: Okay. Okay.
Stephen Drew: so I, I've, I, it's come back to me. Sorry. I think a bit, it's one of the heat strain in
Alex Nikjoo: It is the weather, for
Stephen Drew: Yeah, exactly. It might be my iq, but we'll say the web. I was gonna say, so that project that landed in Z so the first one that we talked about, did that happen by accident then, or did were you how did you get it [00:33:00] published from your perspective, Alex? Cause I was impressed that it was there. I was happy for you, but I'd love to know how that came about.
Alex Nikjoo: So I, I actually interned at the Architects Journal
Stephen Drew: Oh
Alex Nikjoo: years ago. Yeah. Did like a. Unpaid internship, I think that's fair to say. I don't, I hope they don't do those anymore. But yeah, I was interning there.
Stephen Drew: Unpaid internship, boo.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. So I, I was and met a lot of the, people in that space, journalists, people work on in different publishing world and that kind of thing. And that of course, helps to get things published and, Being a very fledgling practice at the time. There was no money for any press team or anything like that basically put together a press release seen number before of having works, in the aj.
Knew what to do with that. Sent it over. Fortunately I already had a contact at Disney. Tom Ravenscroft [00:34:00] editor now great guy. He, yeah he liked the project and thought, let's get it published. And then from there it got picked up by the AJ and, lots of other websites and magazines and newspapers.
It was in Metro and Evening Standard and that kind of thing. So yeah, it, people like it and, I love it as a project and really happy. But on that note, It's been really, it's not easy to get press, like at all. It, a lot of it is a relationship based thing and this project's got a lot of press.
But other projects, which I thought might do haven't, and, you just gotta keep persevering and eventually something get picked up and that'll help. But alongside that, Don't think that you're going, this is for maybe new business starters. Don't think you're gonna get loads of phone calls offer getting something into AJ because it's probably other architects who are looking at that, right?
Maybe some [00:35:00] developers, but you've gotta, you gotta keep working and building those relationships to keep work coming in. It's not a, you don't just get a, a free ride once you get some stuff published. You gotta really keep going at it.
Stephen Drew: I love that because that's a brutal dose of reality, isn't it? You've got the project InDesign, you're like next project Tom, here we go.
And nothing. And that's real life, isn't it? And you've gotta keep going, but maybe your 10th project goes back on the thing.
And but equally, the other point that you said that I found really interesting is that you're right. I saw this and I was like, I know that guy. So it was like the meme, you're like, ah. I've met him and so I was impressed and that, and happy for you. But where it's interesting, like you say, maybe the people who are who are reading or watching dine and are not the client.
So actually where you have to mark is totally different avenues that you wouldn't have expected. Like you probably, you might pick up your next client from that app for [00:36:00] neighborhood. Whatever the heck. Do you know what I mean? So have you found that then Alex actually you're more likely to get work from different avenues then?
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah. So I think, me as an Architect and as NICU as a company have been really fortunate in terms of the 95% of our work has all come from word of mouth.
Stephen Drew: Oh, wow.
Alex Nikjoo: so that's like really, I'd say a positive. Sign. And it's just through the networks of friends of friends, and then, you get one recommendation.
It turns into five different avenues from their builders. They really good a avenue from new work because, if you get a builder who's got lots of work coming in and they trust you and they think you're a good Architect to work with, they'll promote you as well. We haven't had a huge amount of work from.
Press and advertising or anything like that, saying that those infill houses that we're working on with her fantastic developer, she found us through the aj, she was going through [00:37:00] and which project was it? If you go down to left there, brick house, no one up
Stephen Drew: Okay. Yep.
Alex Nikjoo: did a brick house.
So she found us through this project which is a. Lovely extension renovation we worked on in South London. Really liked the, as this client really liked the aesthetic and just, gave me a call and we're working on some infill houses for her and also her own home renovation at the moment you don't really know where the work's going to come from always.
And that is a nervous, that can be a nervous part of running a business. Cause you think you know what's the cashflow this month? But you gotta hold, have a few nerves and just think is the phone's gonna ring at some point? It's probably not the best business strategy, but it seems to work out.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I think half of it's being out there really, isn't it, Alex, in, in every different avenue and then you just, hopefully it picks up you've done a cracking job. It sounds, it looks all amazing and I'm gonna bring up your website and stuff, but [00:38:00] before we go, is there any other questions that you have for me at all?
Alex Nikjoo: Putting me on the spot here.
Stephen Drew: Why did I leave Architecture? Would I build another website? No, absolutely not. Would I build another app? No. I dunno how you feel once you've done one. It's oh, that
Alex Nikjoo: Oh I dunno, I get got the bug for
Stephen Drew: You got the
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah.
Stephen Drew: be an app designer.
Alex Nikjoo: You could do this, you could do that. But you, yeah. Do you feel the same way of it's all good doing two different things, maybe three, but you've gotta not spread yourself too thin and make sure that if you do it, commit to it and make sure it's done properly.
And don't neglect things,
Stephen Drew: Yeah.
Alex Nikjoo: no mess up.
Stephen Drew: yeah, there's a few lessons like, I actually built an app for the back end of the Architecture Social, which were recruitment, and I was quite proud of it, but actually I was finding that. Me and my team weren't using it as much as maybe paying for a different one. So I swallowed my pride, even though I built it and just accepted the forward that maybe we need to go in this other direction and move on.
And I think sometimes in [00:39:00] business you've just gotta do that and you've gotta accept and move for the time. So the forum and the Architecture Social isn't as busy during the pandemic, and that's partly due to the situation, but partly because maybe I need to put a bit more love into it, or maybe it's okay that.
That's a piece of the past, but the podcast goes higher. So I'm thinking that I've always gotta evolve and I've gotta be okay with that. And I think you have gotta be fluid with the business. But going back to your point, you're right cuz I initially, in the Architecture of social, we started doing everything.
And I think that you can dilute your message, Alex, isn't it? It's like a practice where you. You say, yeah, I can do this and that, and then suddenly on the website it doesn't look very cohesive. So I'm trying to like offer quite a few different services, quite a few different resources, but loosely keeping it in the same narrative.
And I think the other thing that really helps whether you are. Know an Architect or whatever. So I always try to think about the value if I if I was the person on the other end. So it's quite [00:40:00] easy for me to design what I thought was useful as a job seeker. Cause I used to be an arch, an Architectural Assistant looking for a job,
Alex Nikjoo: Yes. You know inside out. Inside out. Yeah.
Stephen Drew: I know how brutally it can be as well, isn't it?
And you go, oh, I think that one went well. And then you get that email going, sorry Steve, you are not gonna make you an offer. Or it goes the other way sometimes in life, isn't it? You go for the interview and you go, that was solid. I don't think I'm gonna get that. That was rock hard. And then they go, oh yeah.
They go, oh, we're gonna make you an offer. And you're like, really? What happened
Alex Nikjoo: Why? Yeah.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I know. I tell you what we got one question that's come in just before we wind down. Paul Betson says, do you typically rely on clients approaching you now or do you have strategies aside from getting work into publications for finding new architects?
So w what other strategies do you have, Alex, that you're, you are tinkering with as well?
Alex Nikjoo: So really it's just getting yourself out there, go into the right, not, it's not the [00:41:00] right events, just go to events and in the right sort of sphere. But that might be, I'm, I love, love cycling. You meet people doing that. You never know who you're gonna meet doing an activity.
Just put yourself out there. But don't worry about it doesn't have to be an Architecture event. Like they're great. But there's also like loads of other architects there. You might meet the right client, you might not. They might meet five others and maybe they'll go with you, maybe they won't.
If you go do other activities, ho hobbies, whatever you are into, just go do it and meet people. And you never know where those conversations are gonna go. And it might be a conversation which turns into a client in Next week or might be in like three months time or two years time they all come back.
So it's just about, I think any business, just put yourself out there, let people know what you're doing. And that comes back to your point of don't spread yourself too thin. Don't try and do everything. Yes, I can probably design a hospital. Am I gonna be good at it? No, I'm not, because I've never done it [00:42:00] before.
But if I. Did the research and spent the time doing it. Yeah, you could probably do it, but go get it designed by someone else. But if you wanna, if you want a really nice house, you want a really nice shop some bespoke spaces, yeah, we can do that for you. And, just let people know what you're doing and let them know that you're really good at it as well.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, said. I think that's a really good note to, to wind down on. I agree that actually half of it is about participating and there's often times where I thought, oh, do you know what? I fancy sacking this off tonight. And then you go to an event and you meet someone or whatever and it really works and therefore you get a connection that you never had before.
And. Like you said, until the AI robots replace us, I think human interaction is what people remember and but half the time I think you can, we're in work is in person as well as online as well. So it really is worth going into these events, if that makes sense.
Alex Nikjoo: Yeah definitely. People, like people [00:43:00] use social media for quite a lot and I think for some people that's really really useful. Like we're not huge on social media. We don't have a big presence. Probably something we should work out. But that, that can be a useful tool as well.
Stephen Drew: Yeah, I agree. On that note though, if people do want to see your beautiful website, where can they find you then? Alex
Alex Nikjoo: WW dot nick ju.co uk is the website. I'm trying to get a.com. Still a struggle, but yes. Someone's got the.com. Yeah.
Stephen Drew: Oh, some nightmare, isn't it? I
Alex Nikjoo: And who else has that name? Who else has my name?
Stephen Drew: I know and web domains of the Wild West because once it's gone, that baby's gone,
Alex Nikjoo: yeah. Yeah.
Stephen Drew: Nick j.co uk and Nick spelled as n i k, and then j o o. Thank you Alex, so much for being here. I really appreciate it.
You've been an absolute legend and I can't wait to see what you do next. Maybe you cover another few more years with a few more apps
Alex Nikjoo: Sounds great. Yeah, definitely. Great speaking. Thanks so much for having me on and yeah, we'll catch up [00:44:00] soon.
Stephen Drew: Brilliant. So we'll stay on the stage while I turn off the live stream, Alex, and thank you for tuning in the audience. I really appreciate you being here.
I've got more content coming and tomorrow there's one more live stream where we'll be talking about it's AI related. Bring your pitch folks. Alex's dad might turn up that if he says, see if it could change his mind or whatever. But I will end the livestream now. Alex, stay on the stage and see you all in the audience soon.
Take care. Bye.
Alex Nikjoo: Cheers.