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Dear Writer, giving and receiving feedback can be hard. Haven't you ever wished you could watch someone else's writing group to see how they do it?
This podcast is focused on just such a writing group. Join authors JC Bybee, Grey Alder, and Tyler Hess as they razz and encourage each other, talk about every writing topic under the sun, and exemplify the subtle art of helping other writers write better.
00:00:15:23 - 00:00:41:21
Unknown
Dear listener, thank you for joining us on the podcast. It doesn't have a name yet, but hopefully will be by the time we publish this. So, I'm I'm Tyler, I guess you guys and Jesse, and I'm out of. Awesome. That was perfect. Where to keep that? Okay. I guess for the first episode, just, just the format of what what tech?
00:00:41:21 - 00:01:05:13
Unknown
This podcast is where we're writing group. We thought it would be fun just to record ourselves doing our normal writing group thing and and give it to you and see if you like it. I know when we were first starting out, we felt kind of new to what the writing group should be like. I feel like I'm talking to you guys, but I'm actually talking to the listener.
00:01:05:15 - 00:01:24:11
Unknown
We just thought it'd be something cool to to show you what the writing group can look like. So as you're in your writing journey, this is definitely for for writers. People who want to be parts of writing groups. Of course, we'll talk about different things with writing. We'll share our experiences. You'll you'll hear, little snippets of our stories.
00:01:24:11 - 00:01:48:00
Unknown
Maybe not. No, no, no major spoilers, but maybe minor spoilers. I'm not too concerned about showing spoilers in my book. And yeah, here we are. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to the video. So you guys just, Yeah, we should. We maybe, I don't know, so we just get into it. Should we talk about the books first? Right.
00:01:48:02 - 00:02:13:13
Unknown
Well, just to give us a, I'd say just give everybody who's listening a little bit of context, where we are in our writer career. I'm an indie author. I have eight books out. I primarily write in the thriller genre, but I have a series that is involved with superheroes. Adam has dubbed it, superhero procedural, genre, which I like.
00:02:13:15 - 00:02:39:08
Unknown
And I do a mystery series that is set in a fantasy world. And that's the delve on the mysteries. And then my other one is the Hero Unit series. Primarily, what you'll be hearing is from the Hero Unit series, from critiques that I'm submitting for the group. Yeah. And I'll include a link to your Your Author page on Amazon and, wherever that needs to go in the box.
00:02:39:10 - 00:03:04:15
Unknown
Yeah. And let the money roll in, Jesse. And let the money roll. Adam, what about you? Yeah. So, I feel like I'm definitely the newbie of the group, so, I lean towards fantasy. I think we're all kind of high concept here. Kind of speculative, which is kind of neat. Yeah, I thought I was pretty original until I got out from under my rock and realized that Brandon Sanderson existed.
00:03:04:15 - 00:03:27:01
Unknown
So I started reading this one like suit. He beat me to everything and did it ten times as good. So that's unfortunate, but also fortunate. Because you guys are awesome. Yeah. So I'm currently, published. I have plans to one day change that maybe 25 years from now. Now, we're going up to these guys as, gurus of sorts, especially Jesse here.
00:03:27:01 - 00:03:48:01
Unknown
But, what we do has been extremely beneficial to kind of build up my confidence so far. Every now and again, you guys have the terror to me, but, you know, mostly good. How about you? Something. Yeah. Just to, go for what you said for just a second. That's the good thing about the writing group is that you have people who will.
00:03:48:03 - 00:04:02:07
Unknown
I think I've said this to you guys before. Like, sometimes I go between, like, major, major imposter syndrome when it comes to my writing. And then I feel like I'm better than everyone else. And and being with you guys has helped me realize I am in a slightly more healthy spot than either ends of the spectrum. So, yeah.
00:04:02:11 - 00:04:25:22
Unknown
That's really good. So I was a, I was an English teacher for a couple of years at a middle school. I teach, I still teach creative writing class online. For my writing career. I literally just finished my book today, which is really exciting. So, I, published still, I'm going to, do some editing and maybe send it off to an editor and then agents and all that.
00:04:25:22 - 00:04:57:15
Unknown
I'm going to try to go the traditional route first before I go self-publishing. But I'm honestly okay with you there. I just, I love I love writing. I want to know what happens in my second book, but now that I finish my first book and I'm writing a trilogy. So yeah, good stuff. Awesome. Good stuff. Okay, who are we, ripping into you first today we will I when I know I was first last time because I couldn't talk right in this.
00:04:57:17 - 00:08:35:21
Unknown
So, I think we ended with. Do we end with Adam last time so we can start with him this time? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let's see. Yeah, that sounds good. All right, there we go. Cue Adam cutting in to give us the context,
00:08:35:23 - 00:08:40:21
Unknown
and then we go to, Jesse, do you want to go first or do you,
00:08:41:01 - 00:09:07:02
Unknown
Yeah, yeah, I'll start out so. Simply because of the, nature of the story you're telling. At first I was like, who is this? We had to do that. But then I was like, oh, wait, no, no, no, I picked up where we're at. So that's like, I don't think that's going to be an issue a greater wise, because we're reading this in chunks.
00:09:07:02 - 00:09:35:04
Unknown
We're not reading this continuous. And that's, that's something that, that I'm trying to take more into account as I'm reading these. So to go from where we were to where we are, I think you're fine doing it this way. Let's see here. Overall, I liked the scene. I liked the back and forth between, The,
00:09:35:06 - 00:10:12:22
Unknown
I'm probably still going to refer to him as stills, but Nathan Nian. Yeah, I do say that. Nen nen. Okay, between him and atrium. The question I had, and I just. There it is. Because we're hearing a voice, but we're not hearing emotion like I'm not is how I'm. I want to know how much he this fragment is able to emote, to think, to be.
00:10:13:00 - 00:10:37:10
Unknown
And if you want that to be a question, that's fine. But the, you're used to when you're doing dialog, you know, there's angry or there's emotion, there's that's attached to the dialog. And so I just wondering if you're leaving it deliberately vague or not, if it's supposed to be. That's great. That's fine. It works.
00:10:37:12 - 00:11:04:08
Unknown
I like the, above that, you have the ink worm induced ground quake as a good worldbuilding point. It's like, okay, well, there's something that's big enough. When it moves, it causes an earthquake. So that's you had really good worldbuilding there. There was a couple of places, I have one sentence marked. You can see it when you get to the comments that felt a little incomplete.
00:11:04:10 - 00:11:38:12
Unknown
So let's see here. Oh, the fact that you gave your currency a unique name. I love that because so often people will kind of skip on that and they'll just go with crowns because that's what everybody calls money and fantasy settings for whatever reason. And you went you gave you gave an original name. And I love that because that's more weird, more world building.
00:11:38:14 - 00:12:13:23
Unknown
Just, the one critique is you have the, the bodyguard says the nice stores. It's not that nice is necessarily an anachronism, but it just didn't feel like it was the right word for him to use as a bodyguard. Let's see here. To that, you give us insight into the magic system, and you let us know that still, despite the fact that he's got a new personality, nen is still a killer.
00:12:14:01 - 00:12:41:14
Unknown
And, I mean, it fits the assassin persona really well. You don't. He's the different person, but he's the same person. So you're going to be able to keep your continuity going with that. Let's see, I didn't really have honestly, this ending section. I didn't really have a lot. It flowed really well. You're setting up the whole idea.
00:12:41:16 - 00:13:06:00
Unknown
You're kind of playing into, like we talked about originally with that, that master apprentice Sith esque dynamic that's going on between Atrium and Stills or Nen now, and it really feels like it's, again, not not an identical Majin. I'm saying you're ripping it off, but it has that feel of eventually the apprentice challenges the master in this in their system.
00:13:06:02 - 00:13:27:11
Unknown
And I like it because you're giving it like you're giving it life. You're giving it a reason. You're giving it a motivation for nen to actually challenge atrium versus not making it. Like making it feel like it comes out of nowhere. You can you're setting something up there and it that last section really, really works to set it up.
00:13:27:13 - 00:13:52:14
Unknown
And I love the last line, but then people are always giving stupid names to things that was like that. I love that as a line for that character. It fit really, really well. Overall, this it. And I you said this is tied to the first short piece that you had us read. It's in the same world, right? Yes.
00:13:52:14 - 00:14:25:16
Unknown
That's correct. And is this forest that forest that was in that. It's okay. Okay. All right. Okay, I thought so I, I love that that is because that was a really interesting world, a really interesting concept. And for you to touch on it on this and maybe bringing it in. Great. I love it. So yeah. Like, oh, I critique wise it's pushing the story forward.
00:14:25:16 - 00:14:50:13
Unknown
It's doing really well. Yeah. You can tighten some things up here and there, but I'm not your editor. I'm your buddy in writer's group. You're sedang consistent within the story and within the character. Like I said, he's a new personality, but he's the same character, and that's important. So that's all I've got. Tyler. Yeah. We'll go. Yeah.
00:14:50:15 - 00:15:09:22
Unknown
Yeah, definitely really good I love this is kind of a personal thing. I mean I love when a character can like step into a different personality and we see this like with Shalon and, and, and Brandon Sanderson's, Stormlight Archives. I've not read it. In fact, I know, I know, you have. You get you're getting there.
00:15:09:22 - 00:15:32:11
Unknown
Adam. There's a young, young paddler. But I really enjoy stuff like that. So having. And I had kind of the same thing, like Jake, where, like, I was, I was definitely confused. Like, who the heck is this guy? But then again, I don't think it is going to be an issue for for an actual reader who's reading it straight through because, you know, within.
00:15:32:13 - 00:16:04:00
Unknown
First, you know, first half a page, I knew what was going on. Like, I just did like, oh, yeah, this is this is still this is this is what's going on. I, I think with, with this guy, if the personality is that of a soldier, I would maybe, hint at that a little bit early on, because when it came up with the with the merchants, I was like, okay, I didn't really maybe feel like, you know, feel like a soldier as much as I know what what the soldier feels like.
00:16:04:02 - 00:16:26:16
Unknown
But but that's something that I kind of, picked up on. I had questions about, you know, so atrium is dead, but not dead. And I was confused about whether, if that was related to the explosion in the last section. But I thought that because he was not in his own body. So that wasn't super clear to me.
00:16:26:17 - 00:16:44:00
Unknown
I have to answer right now, of course, if that's, if that's a spoiler or anything, but, that that just kind of made me like, oh, what happened there? Because time wise, I thought the two things were happening really closely together. Yeah. It's whether or not that's related to to the explosion. Do you want to do you have anything you want to say about that or.
00:16:44:00 - 00:17:06:04
Unknown
Yeah, I'll just say suffice it to say, I was definitely trying to make that vague and hopefully have that as well. And then I'm intentionally okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Then that then. That's a good question for sure. And yeah, I guess for the listeners, sorry to to break this up, we try not to spoil things for each other, but we're fine with spoiling things for you.
00:17:06:06 - 00:17:32:15
Unknown
Like, we wanted to be reading these things for the first time. So we try to try to, keep these questions like. Like I say, like, keep things vague. If they're meant to be vague. So, just, just a comment, a little bit about, kind of your style and, please don't take this, you you you use a lot of words.
00:17:32:17 - 00:17:53:10
Unknown
Sometimes you use a lot of words when, you know, fewer could do this. And this maybe is a thing like an editor would say. It would say like, like this. You say I am an editor, so I'll say it. There is a specific part that I that really stuck out to me. It was near the end, the first reason for this decision to move it was that dot, dot, dot.
00:17:53:12 - 00:18:11:02
Unknown
And I was like, because little pause or neon had pause. And you're, you're explaining why he buys. And I think you can really I think you honestly could have cut that part out. And then left and then just talked about what, what neon was thinking about. And the reader will get the he paused because he's he's thinking about that.
00:18:11:06 - 00:18:30:18
Unknown
And then I do realize, like later on, you kind of do a same thing. Like there was a second reason why he stopped. So I almost took back my comment. But the the it's kind of jarring initially. Yeah. And yeah, it was just something that I, it did kind of kick me out a little bit. And there are other parts where I was like, oh, that's a really wordy way to say that.
00:18:30:20 - 00:18:49:21
Unknown
So something maybe just to think of. I know we're always giving each other things that, we see each and every time. Like for me, it's the, it's the said and the in the action beats and stuff like that versus something, you know, maybe something to keep in mind. Oh, you don't, don't feel like you have to talk.
00:18:49:23 - 00:19:12:00
Unknown
Don't feel like you have to talk. Super fancy. Because when you do that, like, you know, cessation, you know, it's not a bad word, like it's one that's fine to use, but maybe it seems a little bit pretentious as a writer, and you don't want your reader to think you're pretentious because then they'll draft you. Forbid. I don't, I don't know, but it's just, you know.
00:19:12:00 - 00:19:34:04
Unknown
So there there's there's a certain style that is a little bit more grating, and I don't I don't want you to fall into that if. Yeah. No, I super appreciate that. I, I, was wondering when we got to this part because I sensed myself kind of drifting into that because I'm so much of my fiction diet before was reading dead authors from, like the Victorian era sometimes is how I just, like, talk.
00:19:34:04 - 00:19:49:13
Unknown
I'm like, why would you use three words instead of one? Well, so yeah, I appreciate that. That'll help me kind of, rein it in a bit. Hopefully now I don't remember it, maybe as Mark Twain or somebody who said he said something similar, similar that like, why use two words when you could use one or something like that?
00:19:49:13 - 00:20:10:19
Unknown
So that's just kind of the yeah principle I tried to live by and and stuff like that. I had like there are some other, other questions that that kicked me out a little bit as well. I've left comments about them though, so I think I'll, I'll leave those to you. Just to go into, Yeah.
00:20:10:19 - 00:20:31:17
Unknown
I really the, the confrontation with the merchant and the and his brick was really interesting to know that people do like, spontaneously gain this power is a cool bit of world building. Like, it's not something you just have to learn. It's something you can. It seems like it's something you kind of have inherently. And then you train, which is really cool.
00:20:31:19 - 00:20:51:01
Unknown
Like JC said, I like I like the whole Sith Apprentice kind of vibe. I don't know if he's going to kill him, but the fact that he's thought about how to kill is really cool. So yeah, I'm definitely enjoying, seeing where this character goes. And he does still feel connected to stills. And I really like stills.
00:20:51:03 - 00:21:13:16
Unknown
So even though it's a different personality, I still feel like the connection is there. So that's that's really good. Sweet. You guys mind if I have a couple of questions? Yeah, yeah, go for it. Yeah. So I was I was super, I want to say nervous, but just the fact that in the previous chapter, you have one character who is now a different character, but the same, like the personality shift.
00:21:13:16 - 00:21:33:18
Unknown
I was like, okay, got to really, like, make this smooth and like, make this a question mark that I hopefully answer like soon enough towards mystery versus versus like confusion, outright confusion. I wasn't sure what side I was erring on if that would be tonal whiplash. If you're like, whoa, that he's way too different or like, whoa, he's basically the same guy, why do you even need the personality shift dynamics?
00:21:33:18 - 00:22:03:05
Unknown
Like, did you guys feel like I was erring and other side of that line? Trying to think back with the last scene. He was starting to shift and settle into this new personality. Like he gave the gate guard's orders, like, like a guard or like a like a soldier. Like he's supposed to be, and he starts settling in a little bit.
00:22:03:07 - 00:22:38:19
Unknown
And I think the way you flip to it being from stills to, neon that for me because especially because you, natrium or atrium address him immediately and establish the master apprentice relationship immediately. Like, almost immediately. I think you're okay. So he personally. Tyler. Yeah. I think you could even lean a little bit more into it.
00:22:38:21 - 00:23:06:02
Unknown
You might think about maybe, like, maybe when you go back in or revising or something giving stills like, maybe you did this, and I just don't remember giving him, like, a physical tick or something that he does, and then giving me and a different one. Yeah. I think even that little inconsequential thing that wouldn't really tell you too much about a character, but because it would be different, I think that would speak volumes for for oh, these are different.
00:23:06:04 - 00:23:30:03
Unknown
These are basically different people. I mean, they're not really different people, but different personality. Different. Yeah. Reading going on. Cool. All right, I appreciate that. Let's see, another thing I was kind of wondering is, are there too many throwaway characters? Are there just too many body left this dude's wake? Like, are you wondering when we're going to get to the actual gas?
00:23:30:03 - 00:23:37:16
Unknown
Okay, good. No, I think, like.
00:23:37:18 - 00:23:58:21
Unknown
He comes across as somebody who kills, and that's part of what he does. His job is to kill. He's an assassin. But he doesn't. I don't feel like he kills unnecessarily. Like it could have been easy for him to have offed the two gate guards as he was coming through, because they were going to stop him. They were going to question him.
00:23:58:21 - 00:24:24:20
Unknown
They were going to open the gate. Instead, he gave them orders and they obeyed because he had the badge. They responded, I don't think that's his default, because he tried to negotiate with the merchant in the brick first, and he tried to he tried to trick the merchant like that was part of his. Yeah, yeah. So it it seems like a last resort.
00:24:24:20 - 00:24:59:19
Unknown
Not one that he's afraid of using. But it's not like you bothered me. I'm going to kill you now. Some. Yeah, I agree with that. Cool, cool. And then maybe as a final question, Jason, you mentioned the the forest, how he's kind of like, approaching that. I feel like I have a very linear, like, literal path that he's walking, and I'm, like, wondering if it's too straightforward, but I'm trying to build a sense of apprehension as you kind of, like, gets closer to the forest, out of civilization, out of his comfort element, which is like kind of like the slums in this world, I don't know.
00:24:59:19 - 00:25:33:11
Unknown
Do you feel like that kind of wrapping, you know, tension wrapping, ramping up a little bit? I know it's kind of hard week to week having skipped, to this chapter. I would say, since you get caught in his head toward the end, a lot. And you give a little bit, you give a little bit of the, the surroundings, like you mentioned, the shadow that he just set sort of brushes off, maybe a little bit more of that.
00:25:33:11 - 00:25:57:17
Unknown
The rustling in the trees, you know, things moving in the underbrush. I a good example of how to build that tension, I would say, is go back and read the end of the eye of the world when they're going into the blasted lands and end of the blight. Like that is a master class in using, terrain to set up tension.
00:25:57:19 - 00:26:16:09
Unknown
Because we don't see half a, I don't think we even see three quarters of the nightmare that he is trying to convey. But it's all in our heads because of what he does put out there. So, that's a great that would be a good I think that would be a great place to study, to try to.
00:26:16:11 - 00:26:36:15
Unknown
Because if you really trying to build it, because I know what kind of forest that is because I've read your other short story, but if you're trying to build that place up like that, you're going to need to add some more environmental into it. Cool. All right. I will definitely take a look at that. All right. All right.
00:26:36:17 - 00:26:52:02
Unknown
Yeah. Thoughts? Yeah. Pretty much all the questions that I had for you guys. All right Tyler, you got any final final thoughts? No. You kind of. You kind of took what I was going to say about the forest, about getting putting in more setting details. That's something I really struggled with. I like I try to focus on it.
00:26:52:02 - 00:28:41:14
Unknown
So it actually ends up. Yeah. Okay. Nice. Yeah. I've got that problem myself. So good deal. So we decided that Jake was going to go last. Sure. So cue future me giving context
00:28:41:16 - 00:28:53:06
Unknown
and go first. I hope we leave that in. I don't know why I would take it out. You want to kick us off, Adam? Yeah.
00:28:53:06 - 00:29:19:02
Unknown
Yeah. Okay. So, Tyler, I want to. Do you have tissues nearby? Oh, man. Oh, man. This was, I'll just kind of summarize, to begin with, I would say this is another another really solid piece. I feel like this is another section of of small bridges built between the major, you know, tension points of the book, which is great.
00:29:19:02 - 00:29:40:16
Unknown
I feel like that's what you need. Tension is definitely ramping up here. So you have two, small chunks, small chapters or POVs. One from Stan's or. Excuse me. Yeah. Stan's perspective as he interacts with it's essentially seems to be kind of, the bad guy or as close as a mastermind as we have at this point in the form of Bradley the sheriff.
00:29:40:18 - 00:30:03:03
Unknown
You know, the flip side, we also have a POV, with your core cast as they're kind of getting together, trying to convince your, your protagonist, Warren, like, hey, get back in the fight. You know, become interested in this again. And as he's trying to kind of walk the straight and narrow, I mean, he's already I feel like walk through that door of no return, but now he's trying to back out and this is them trying to yank him back into the conflict.
00:30:03:05 - 00:30:24:08
Unknown
So I like the fact that that's, these two POVs kind of mirror and Ryan with each other. In that sense. I don't feel like there's anything, you know, like it was a very short POV in the chapel with Stan's, which is probably exactly what it needs to be to just kind of build that, scent, that taste, that, in a sense of apprehension for what this guy is going to do.
00:30:24:08 - 00:30:57:01
Unknown
Like, okay, some kind of threats at work here in the shadows. I had a few questions just about what the chapel will look like without you. Like, you know, jumping into a huge scene description. Maybe just another line or two, you know, just because to different folks, that's going to mean different things. You do mention the I think the dark oak paneling in the first, the darkly varnished oak pews in the very first paragraph, which is great, but I was just wondering, like, and at first, where other people within earshot are they whispering, you know, the people who are around them?
00:30:57:01 - 00:31:30:14
Unknown
Are they like, dressed in their Sunday best or is this like, come as you are brave kind of church like, you know, just to kind of build up the feel of the town. This is one more chance that you get to kind of do that. And you do in a couple of paragraphs when you have, some of the old, gossips or old harpies, however you put it, kind of watch this scene play out and they watch, Stan's after Bradley is exited, the town gossips and you describe their faces as Pawnee, which I love, because that was, such a great striking visual.
00:31:30:15 - 00:31:54:18
Unknown
Let's see, actually, just kind of on that note, I noticed you have a lot. Okay. Beginning with the pretty faces turning towards stance, that's, visual detail. And right as we jump into Warren's POV, at first paragraph there, warmth, some length. Nice bit easily into the stick of Rowan Wood. That felt like a nice tactile description.
00:31:54:18 - 00:32:14:20
Unknown
Like I could I could feel that just because of that word bite or bit. And then, not too much further down, you have a paragraph in which you specify. Layla's bright voice was accompanied by the squeak of Luke's running shoes on linoleum, and this is giving us some sort of insight into what Warren can hear from the other room and queuing in the entrance of the other characters.
00:32:14:21 - 00:32:33:19
Unknown
And right there you have a nice, audio, you know, description and all these are just kind of sprinkled in in a nice little ways. Not too much. But I thought that was funny. You kind of had this ABC thing going on with the five senses, which is great. Nobody takes to anybody. But other than that, you know, not.
00:32:33:20 - 00:32:59:17
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. I mean, Warren was pretty into what Lila was wearing, you know? Yeah, that's definitely true. Yeah. So I think overall, just a nice another, solid section. I won't say this is, like, the most amazing part of the book. I think this is, like, the necessary part of the book. The the breathing room as we kind of, you know, see if the characters are going to continue the fight.
00:32:59:17 - 00:33:25:09
Unknown
In what form that's going to take. So well done. Yeah. Appreciate that. I hope I hope the senses aren't on like a strict rotation and no, sorry. I'm, I'm not that mathematical about it. I just like, oh, is it for good? Yeah. So, I'm going to echo overall. Yeah. This is a this is a a bridge point.
00:33:25:14 - 00:33:51:10
Unknown
It's necessary. It's written well. And because it's necessary like I, it's needs that attention to detail. It needs that extra level of importance because this is the part where people will tune out because it's not action. And you're going to keep them engaged because we get Bradley again, who I don't like. You're making sure he's staying unlikable. And you get Stan's.
00:33:51:10 - 00:34:17:14
Unknown
And I like that Stan's isn't backing down to Bradley like he has a backbone. And he is. He is a player in the game like you. I like the chess metaphor. He's not just going to let Bradley do whatever. Even though Bradley is accusing him of bad things that, you know, if it happens, it's your fault. Stan's isn't going to just stand idly by.
00:34:17:16 - 00:34:52:05
Unknown
I will echo Adam. Very first comment I made, just, like 1 or 2 more lines about the inside of the church, because I've been in several churches and even in the same faith, they're all slightly different. Yeah. So just just that, like two lines and it'll be great. Yeah. Following Bradley, like I said, you you you tie into the mystery really well, with their conversation like it, it still drives home the point that they're weird things going on.
00:34:52:07 - 00:35:17:16
Unknown
Some people are more aware than others. So the the mystery stays. I like the scenes with Warren. He he he stays Warren through the scene. I like that you put in this, this idea that he, he appreciates the craft of what he's doing. He wishes he could add more to it like he wants. You're giving him another layers of character.
00:35:17:16 - 00:35:44:07
Unknown
He's not just this city kid who's good at fighting. There's another layer to him. You know, he's a woodworker. Great humanizing detail helps us know that, okay, there's more to this kid than than what we've seen so far. Just, just a punchy, kicky part. Yeah. Nan is definitely 100% Gandalf because she wanders around in the woods by herself and nobody is worried.
00:35:44:09 - 00:36:10:04
Unknown
This is a deep layer that goes missing from the campaign for yes, yes. And I like that you're keeping like, you've emphasized now that when he gets home, he does his homework. He wants to do what his mom says. He stays in shape, he works hard. And as he's making these beads, even though it's sort of this, this mind numbing, repetitive process, he's doing it quickly.
00:36:10:04 - 00:36:32:14
Unknown
And he's doing it well because it's something he takes pride in, and that fits with him as a character that even though it's this mundane task, he still wants to do it well and he's still going to do it to the best of his ability. I like that as a detail for him. That that, again, my same point that I talk a little bit more action in the dialog.
00:36:32:14 - 00:36:57:13
Unknown
Yeah, yeah. But, I had to add the comment in where he talks about that. He knows they don't hang out in the library even though it's a small town. Yeah. Somebody from a small town. Nothing to do. They still wouldn't go to the library. Just know that that's not a location that they would go,
00:36:57:15 - 00:37:19:23
Unknown
You add in that he picks up on Leila's vocal quirk, the. Well, like that, you give him that level of, like, people reading as a kid who grow up in the big city, he would have to have gotten good at that kind of stuff. And his throat, the what feels like a throwaway line, how, you know, they don't show up in photographs.
00:37:19:23 - 00:37:40:10
Unknown
And he says, convenient. Kind of like I'm. I thought to myself, as when I read that, I was like, you know, kind of like the blurry photographs of Bigfoot. So the question so the question becomes so. So I was wondering to myself, do you want to do you want Warren to still come across as skeptical? Is that what you're going for, or is he just trying to push her off?
00:37:40:12 - 00:38:05:17
Unknown
That's the one question I had right there. And I don't I don't know if you necessarily need to do anything with it, but that that line, it it it strikes that is he still skeptical despite everything he's seen so far? So that's too good or is that him? Is that himself trying to convince himself to be skeptical so he doesn't get involved?
00:38:05:19 - 00:38:29:06
Unknown
That's that's about that's where I was was on that. I like how you use the word the hounds fits with the Wild Hunt. Let's see here. I'll tell you after this week, I feel like I've written hounds like 300 times I have ever used I bet, but it's hard when you give something a title.
00:38:29:08 - 00:38:56:18
Unknown
That you're like I have to call it the thing. So they know it's the thing. But man it feels like I've written that a thousand times on this page. So there's the one thing, there's one, I would say one action point that I think needs to happen because it feels like it's what Warren would do when Luke and Layla walk past and they're leaving, and then Warren says, you're going into the woods now.
00:38:56:23 - 00:39:26:13
Unknown
I feel like he would put a hand on Luke, grab his arm, something to physically stop him and say, what the heck are you doing? Because he's not. He knows that Luke likes Layla. So to his mind, as somebody else who likes her, why is he not being the protector? Why is he not stopping this? And to me, it feels like Warren would put that physical barrier in there and say, I'm stopping you.
00:39:26:13 - 00:40:00:03
Unknown
Why aren't you stopping her? As that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, I think I think that's that's really good, actually. And then I like Luke's line. Like, it doesn't feel like Luke, but at the same time, the way you did it, it does feel like Luke where he says you can't control people to keep them safe, like the Luke we've sort of read up to this point, maybe not, but then he finally met his gaze, and for once there was no animosity.
00:40:00:03 - 00:40:29:11
Unknown
He just seemed tired. You've you've changed him just enough that that line makes sense in this moment. And then I'm curious to see what Nan's going to do when she gets back. But she's like. Like you said, the, the next scene is longer, so I, I'm excited to read like I again echoing Adam, this is a great stitched stitching scene that goes action point, action point.
00:40:29:11 - 00:40:53:14
Unknown
We've got to bridge the gap between the two. It does a really good job because it doesn't. It slows down without slowing down the narrative. Yeah. Good. With so with that, with this, with the bridge stitch stitching scenes like you guys you're talking about. I, I definitely think that that latest scene with, with the Scooby gang and the war in is, is super necessary.
00:40:53:16 - 00:41:12:20
Unknown
I, I kind of put in the scene with Stan's and Bradley just to kind of make sure, like, hey, like being kind of like you said, Jesse. Like, there are there is stuff happening in the background. Stan's is doing something. He's not just sitting in his office and doing. The Bradley's doing stuff. It's all stuff.
00:41:12:22 - 00:41:36:11
Unknown
I guess, I guess, I guess you guys are kind of. Where does it feels necessarily like it feels like not just like an extraneous. Yeah, yeah. No, it feels necessary. Because the bad guys are making chess moves and the good guys are, you know, bumbling through, making chess moves as best they can. Yeah. And we see it seems like the bad guys are much more well equipped to do so.
00:41:36:13 - 00:41:45:11
Unknown
They already have pawns on the board. So you're like, okay, this creates a sense of tension, you know, like something's going to happen. Expectation. Yeah.
00:41:45:13 - 00:42:03:09
Unknown
And then, Jesse, you touched on this with, with Luke saying that sometimes I give my characters like the theme in a nutshell or anything like a mini theme in a nutshell. And sometimes I'm worrying that I'm being a little bit too didactic with it, like Stan's has had a bit like go the ends do not justify the means.
00:42:03:11 - 00:42:27:21
Unknown
In the previous scene and now this one, and it does happen. I think it happens at least one more time. Good or bad. But honestly, it felt it from Stan's. It felt like that's something he would absolutely say. One of the pieces of advice I picked up a long time ago watching a James Patterson, class was.
00:42:27:23 - 00:42:56:09
Unknown
When you're writing dialog for books, you don't write like you. They don't talk like you actually talk. And so when you're writing for the story, you're writing to the story. And so and, and I said, like with a, with Luke, like just isolated that line doesn't make sense from Luke. Like if you had thrown that line in and one of the first things we had with him, that would have made sense at all.
00:42:56:11 - 00:43:02:00
Unknown
But stuff has happened.
00:43:02:02 - 00:43:33:01
Unknown
And now he is, it's lightly different character and his motivations have shifted and it made sense. And it doesn't feel it doesn't have that same feel as you know, with great power comes great responsibility. You expect that line? It doesn't have that level of feel. It has a level of a lesson that he's trying. He's trying to learn himself.
00:43:33:02 - 00:43:53:20
Unknown
Also, does it feel like a story I don't want to hear about here? Is that as well? But does it feel like Luke is changing, or does it feel like we're just seeing more of Luke, Luke's character? I mean, both of those are kind of changes, but one is more, yeah, I would I would say we're just seeing a little bit more of him.
00:43:53:22 - 00:44:24:08
Unknown
Like prior to this, we were sort of seeing the hormonal teenager. And as the situation has gotten more serious and more personal, we're seeing another side of him as a person. Yeah, personally, I don't. What do you think, with regard to Luke's growth with regard to that line? From start, I want to hear it all from you at, yeah, I, I disagree with JC a little bit.
00:44:24:10 - 00:44:42:09
Unknown
It didn't necessarily run me the wrong way on the first read through, but now that you bring up the ends, justify the means line, it does feel a little bit on the nose, even for this readership. And you can easily replace that if you feel so inclined, with something like know like, you know, like, okay, another dead kid to save the world, is that it?
00:44:42:09 - 00:45:01:21
Unknown
You know, like, whatever that calculus looks like. He'd be pretty well equipped knowing, these types of games that he's willing to play and the the collateral he's willing to put down, maybe specify or hints at what that is, feel like it's raising the stakes. That's a good freaking line. Yeah. Another kid to save the good life.
00:45:01:23 - 00:45:26:05
Unknown
Is that is that right, Adam? Originally. Yeah. That's somewhere. All I need is credit in your book. Now. And then, with, the Luke question, I, I actually thought it was funny. I don't know, I feel like Luke and Warren, like Luke was standing up to Warren. I think it was a character growth that we were seeing on display.
00:45:26:05 - 00:45:46:23
Unknown
It wasn't just the hormonal thing. Like. Like Jake said, he's willing to stand up to him. He's not able to do so physically. He's not able to rise the same amount of logic as AJ, but like, darn it, he's stubborn. So he's going to try, you know, like, I feel like they're both trying to kind of emotionally manipulate each other, which like, okay, good friends emotionally manipulate each other.
00:45:47:01 - 00:46:11:20
Unknown
Yeah. So I call them good friends at this point. But yeah, I gave you some. And I hope Luke isn't coming across as just like the stereotypical redhead. Like, I do want him to have a character. I know you guys have said, or at least you said you don't really want to see a POV from from Luke, but I do hope he feels like a person.
00:46:11:22 - 00:46:42:00
Unknown
Hey, I will say yes, they for me. Again we are getting him from outside perspectives, but that outside perspective shifts. Like AJ, he's my friend. I've known him for a long time. He's Luke. That's just the kind of person he is. From Warren. We get the perspective of yeah, he's he's a little, little spineless is how Warren views, he's not willing to step up.
00:46:42:02 - 00:47:32:16
Unknown
And now we're seeing him outside it, like I said, like outside of the realm of the friend group and more in a serious situation, we get to see that he can react beyond just scream. We've seen yeah, yeah, yeah, just beyond that, that the punk kid, that kind of we first seem to meet, and I think he's developed a level of grudging respect from Warren after watching the fight and realizing that there's more to him, more Luke realizing there's more to Warren than just the new guy, and accepting the fact that, yeah, Warren has capabilities that I don't have, I'm not going to be able to face him like in a stand up
00:47:32:16 - 00:47:56:15
Unknown
fight. But at the same time, I can tell him what I think and he does. And in. It's hard to do that when you know that the person you're telling it to is might get mad and probably knock you out. So it gives it does it does show that he's got a backbone. So that's my view. What do you think, Adam.
00:47:56:17 - 00:48:15:07
Unknown
Yeah, I, I agree, I, I don't feel like a solute definitely is experiencing character growth. And I don't think that needs to be too dramatic or pronounced. It can happen little by little. You know, he's he's not the main character. I think we talked about like, Lila not having too much of a personality yet. I don't think that's entirely true.
00:48:15:07 - 00:48:30:12
Unknown
I think we gave you a hard time, but, like, I think you see things that are happening little by little is is just fine, you know, like, this is one of the plot calls for him and this is when he would naturally, I think, feel the need to step up a little bit. And that's exactly what he's doing and, you know, makes you bond with him a little bit more.
00:48:30:12 - 00:49:06:05
Unknown
He's not just the punk kid, or at least he's trying not to just be that, you know. Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Gotcha. Yeah, yeah. Thanks, guys I appreciate it. No problem. We, do we? Brought to you by doctor says. Oh. Then hopefully someday. That'll be cool. I mean, great, you're listening to this, and you have something to say.
00:49:06:06 - 00:50:50:16
Unknown
Thank you. So let's see, where shall we show it to you? Future Jesse, to give us his context.
00:50:50:18 - 00:51:02:21
Unknown
And it. And then. Oh, I guess it's actually kind of our turn, isn't it? So, Jesse, you're saving because your future self will say stuff. I guess I'll go first, because. Adam, I feel like you're good.
00:51:02:23 - 00:51:33:18
Unknown
Sounds good. And first, Initially. And this is just because I was reading in chunks, you know, I had to go back and be like, why are they at the law office? I was like, oh, okay. Right. So I have another client besides, the, the billionaire, feature possible, romantically. Yeah. As as always, like, really loving the world building, really interested in in how this world has changed.
00:51:33:18 - 00:52:13:07
Unknown
And I guess probably a new context. Maybe you will you will talk a little bit about why this world is different. I was interested in this, this non abrasive quirk that feels like such a strange thing for the view. Like it's kind of framed as a superpower, but I don't know what it really is. That. Yeah, I especially in, like, this, this, Dickinson, this, company CEO or or whatever, like, it felt weird that such a such a person would be in such a position, but I can definitely see places where that would happen.
00:52:13:09 - 00:52:34:16
Unknown
Just, just a a world building question about truth sensors, talking about them being at the trial. And maybe you probably already thought about this, but just something that I, I want to make sure that you have thought about. I feel like if there is a superpower where you can tell if somebody is telling the truth, every courtroom would be like required to have one.
00:52:34:17 - 00:52:52:16
Unknown
Because that just seems like something that, you know, if that if that was the case in our world, like, that would be a really good thing in the courtroom. Presumably they're just super rare and and you can't. But then you mentioned, like, there's a couple detectives and obviously like, you can't. And that is a good place for true center as well.
00:52:52:18 - 00:53:07:00
Unknown
You can't force them to be in such a place. But yeah, I just I'm just assuming that I just wanted to make sure you're. You were thinking about that, but super cool.
00:53:07:02 - 00:53:33:14
Unknown
I got a little bit confused. So, Eve, this was in the, just on Wednesday. Just at the start of that section. Eve was, like, doing her eye stuff and watching things, but it said if it wasn't for the shifting of the natural laws around her partner, and I don't know if I've just missed the context for that, like, things are weird around here or if that's something that's coming from the other books.
00:53:33:16 - 00:53:57:06
Unknown
That was just something that kind of kicked me. I was like, oh, what's that? So presumably you have an idea, but maybe just, you know, throw line. Exactly. You know, just a little bit about what kind of thing that looks like, would be really good. Are ghosts real? It felt like. It feels like more of a question in this world.
00:53:57:06 - 00:54:20:20
Unknown
Like, I would think that, a couple of guys would, would automatically just like, throw that suggestion out of the window in our world. But, like, you definitely see, in this world, with all the crazy stuff happening, that it could be more of a question. So I don't know, I think you said that, I'm going to leave that one vague.
00:54:20:22 - 00:54:43:06
Unknown
Okay. There. Yeah. Sounds good. I just it just it felt like it. And maybe this wasn't intentional, but it felt like it was another thing that was different about their world, where, you know, not that people don't believe in ghosts. No, but they. I don't think that they would be considered in, in such a professional, situation.
00:54:43:06 - 00:54:49:14
Unknown
So that was interesting. I really like that.
00:54:49:16 - 00:55:12:00
Unknown
Lots of good stuff and make comments for a while just into it. You keep saying that Eve, you keep using, like, superlatives with their, like, the single most sophisticated piece of technology. And but then there's somebody who's getting faster and that that feels like it doesn't feel like it's impossible. Because obviously you can have super sophisticated things that are good at specific things.
00:55:12:00 - 00:55:33:05
Unknown
And then another sophisticated thing, even if it's less sophisticated, that is good at a specific thing to get pass it. But it just I might, I might, Weaken is the wrong word, but I might, I might, I might not make that such a strong statement. Like there are, you know what I mean? Like, there are things, obviously.
00:55:33:10 - 00:55:58:04
Unknown
Yeah. Very interested in how they get in the notes to to Darren. I'm still thinking as somebody on the staff, but now I'm thinking that maybe there is just an invisible. Oh, there is an invisible dude that is discussed. So I'm just I'm interested in that. And everything that's going on there, I like how you're setting up, like, they're just they're going to fall in love like Jessica.
00:55:58:09 - 00:56:20:23
Unknown
They're they're they're they're destined. I feel it like they're not hiding that very well. I know, that's right. No, no, no, I'm bad at that. So, I might you might feel it's a too heavy handed. It might be a little bit in love, because that means he must be the bad guy, and he's going to break her.
00:56:21:01 - 00:56:45:13
Unknown
I mean, I still wouldn't be surprised if he is a bad guy, to be honest. But I do like it might be a little bit heavy handed, which is, it's fine. Right? And, yeah, there's some other questions that that something that didn't seem to fit super well. I loved the that they get when the kids are growing up, the exceptional kids, they get a supplemental check to pay for more food.
00:56:45:13 - 00:57:18:08
Unknown
That's that's such a that's a that's a core, little thing about the world. I wish that was a thing for, for for grown boys who are going to be, plus six feet, like like all of us are. But it's a requirement for this group. Yes. So there's no women here yet. If we do get, you know, more people, it's a good thing we meet, virtually, because, in my neighborhood field or, but I really, really enjoyed it, as always.
00:57:18:10 - 00:57:45:10
Unknown
And, I love seeing how how this world is different and, and making, you know, all the, all the, the guesses about what's going to happen. And that's, that's super fun about this genre. So all that. Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Cool. JC, I'll just kick off my little stint here with the question, did you write this when you were on your caffeine induced high of, like, writing 8000 stinking words a day?
00:57:45:12 - 00:57:58:05
Unknown
He was telling me he wrote 26,000 words this week. That's nuts. That's that's be illegal for, like. It's like.
00:57:58:07 - 00:58:28:08
Unknown
It's the. Amount. Well, this would have been before that occurred. Is that okay? Okay. Yeah. I'm sure we'll be able to tell when we get to that. That barely can do it. I'm wondering. Well, okay, because I, I was like, man, there's no way he can sprint and maintain this level of quality. Like, that's just not.
00:58:28:10 - 00:58:45:23
Unknown
Well, all that to say, I will say that this, this chapter here was probably the most engaged that I felt the whole time, like, again, I think I said something similar last time, so I don't know if it's just that I'm settling into the narrative. But I really do think that this section is pretty good.
00:58:46:01 - 00:58:59:19
Unknown
I think I like the fact that, Okay, I'll be honest. When they meet with the lawyers for a second, I was like, wait, are these Derek's lawyers? I had to I had to step out for a second. And I think that's just the fact that we're not meeting week to week or reading one chapter after another.
00:58:59:19 - 00:59:29:11
Unknown
Right? Because clearly different names, different cases. And he's the one dude is not married. The one guy, the one dude is, anyway, so I think that's kind of interesting that they do have cases going on on the side. I honestly just picture this whole thing. The more I think about it to be like a Netflix show. Because I'm picturing it like, oh, the budget would even have to be this that high for a lot of this because, you know, that take a like they do a lot of, private investigator work just in their office and office buildings.
00:59:29:11 - 00:59:51:11
Unknown
I'm picturing how they could shoot it. Anyway, all that to the side. I think these little details about other cases, kind of help flesh out a bit. Little details, that'll make it harder to adapt. Like glowing hair. But nonetheless, that worked great for the page. Helped me tune into it. Let's see.
00:59:51:13 - 01:00:13:06
Unknown
Oh, just, a little comments when they are in the lawyer's office, they're going over the footage of, the guy's wife, Sandra Dickinson, sitting with the police detectives tearfully confessing that her husband had abused her. I feel like that's. You could do a little bit more show. Don't tell. With that, even if it's just a single line of dialog, just to show how cringey kind of like Amber heard is.
01:00:13:06 - 01:00:41:15
Unknown
She might be in the situation. Like, I feel like because you do have some comedy in this chapter and that would fit right with, some of the rest of this. And actually, I'll just kind of mention the it's interesting, the tonal differences that we see, because in the first section of the chapter, it's it is a almost a little bit humorous, at least I found, I don't know if I was meant to with, how cringing the the wife is claiming abuse and all that.
01:00:41:17 - 01:01:01:05
Unknown
I don't know what's going on with that, but. And then the middle chunk, you have this new section of the investigation in Derek's case, the main line, I think that opens up in which they, both get news that a new note was passed on, and are also able to subsequently capture a single frame of video footage.
01:01:01:07 - 01:01:20:06
Unknown
So I get goosebumps a little bit during that scene. I feel like you really have the opportunity to, like, explicitly mention that there's dim lighting in that room when they're watching it. Like Ghost Chasers kind of style. Paranormal activity with that. But that was like I was so wanting that I was feeling it. I was like, just crank up that knob a little bit more.
01:01:20:08 - 01:01:40:11
Unknown
You know, your mileage may vary with that. I did, another kind of aspect of, show versus tell. I feel like you could, amp up a little bit is the fact that we just kind of hear passively through dialog, like, oh, they discovered another dope. Another note on his person today. I was like, oh, I want that, like, phone call, I want that.
01:01:40:13 - 01:02:04:00
Unknown
Wait, really? We've been water monitoring him the whole time. Like something like that to play out in real time. You don't have to. But it's kind of one of those like, oh, by the way, I escaped from Isengard. Nice to see you guys again. Like, I want to see that play out. Yeah. Yeah. Let's see. I was a little bit thrown, a little bit kicked out, with the security cam footage, I think I could picture in my mind what's happening.
01:02:04:02 - 01:02:24:17
Unknown
It's almost like this. Okay. For lack of better terms, techno ghost is superimposed over Derek's person, and that's the only point at which he shows up. Like he's so the silhouette is superimposed over Derek's. I don't know if that's what I was meant to take away from that. Jason. Yeah, okay. So perfect then. I was a little confused.
01:02:24:17 - 01:02:44:21
Unknown
I had to stop and think about it for a second, though, as to what was happening. Yeah. And then going back to the tonal stuff, I like the fact that we get kind of this creepy section. They actively talk about ghosts, which just got me going. And then we flip over to the whole it's kind of a romantic comedy.
01:02:44:21 - 01:03:05:01
Unknown
I mean, it's not a romantic comedy, but like, there's one quips being traded, that were pretty funny. Also, I had a realization, you know, I start to picture characters looking like actors. I think I mentioned that for one of your characters. Tyler. I started picturing Eve, and I think I have been this whole time looking like Lucy Liu.
01:03:05:03 - 01:03:53:17
Unknown
Is that accurate at all? Haha, isn't that what I was picturing? I'd have to say no. Okay. Her mom is a main character in here, a unit, the main series, right? And so she is. Trying to. Oh, I know, I know, she's she's like, six feet tall, brown hair. Boop. Brown eyes. Well, not good, but, sort of your standard American brunet, I guess, would be the best way of saying it, you know, not particularly any specific race, I guess.
01:03:53:19 - 01:04:14:09
Unknown
Sort of. That mix we get here in the U.S of lots. Melting pot. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe you've met you probably mentioned that before in this book. It's just the whole week to week thing. You loose details along the way. So all right I will. And she is like she is like an adult right. Yeah. Yes. Like a one year old.
01:04:14:11 - 01:04:39:23
Unknown
Yeah I know she's one year old but she's. Yes she is. She looks like a, she looks like she's the same age as Eve. Jessica. That's right. I figured I figured out her birthday. They're, about 24, 25 ish. I don't remember the exact age, but, dang, they're frickin successful for mid 20s. That's one of the.
01:04:40:01 - 01:05:09:16
Unknown
That's one of the. So that's one of the things that I haven't explicitly addressed. And I ran into it a little bit as a problem with this one. Exceptionals tend to go through, like the career ladder, like, yeah, the career ladder faster because they don't have to sleep. And so I keep forgetting that. Yeah. Well so again, this is addressed in and here are you in at the very first book.
01:05:09:16 - 01:05:38:03
Unknown
Like it's it's actually one of the worst pieces of writing is the very first like two pages. It's way to info dumpy. But I talk about how they don't do night shifts anymore. But Exceptionals will stay up and study for literally a week straight and early for two hours and be fine. So they'll like Exceptionals can graduate from college after two years with a bachelors degree, simply because they have that extra layer of stamina that keeps them going.
01:05:38:05 - 01:06:00:23
Unknown
So it might feel weird, and I think I need to address it a little bit better that yeah, Jessica at 24 is already a P.I. she's already done a bunch of other things, whereas 20 of a normal 24 year old not going to be that far along in the career path. Yeah. So I need to I need to be I know I need to be more explicit about that.
01:06:00:23 - 01:06:19:00
Unknown
I just keep forgetting, especially because maybe I'm just remembering this wrong, but I feel like Jessica goes home in the evening, and then we see her again in the morning, and. And, you know, without remembering that they don't really have to sleep. I just assume that she slept. Yeah. Well, we said during that time, like most of them do sleep.
01:06:19:00 - 01:06:51:06
Unknown
Like, because they're the the proportion exceptional to normal is so like it's a big gap in the rest of the world. Most exceptionals like they go to sleep and they sleep because that's what everybody else is doing. Gotcha. Okay. Time. Yeah, yeah. So I, I don't have to wonder why they're not exceptional. Hate the exceptional. Yes. No. I give plenty of reasons for that.
01:06:51:08 - 01:07:19:03
Unknown
Then. Oh man. Not that we can relate to that. And ultimately. Speaking of things that, stood out a little bit, I just I have to agree with Tyler regarding the, truth sensor, and how that would potentially shake up the criminal justice system. I feel like you could, specifically address that a little bit more, maybe how rare they are.
01:07:19:04 - 01:07:37:05
Unknown
Or just the fact that, like, you know, mankind doesn't change. Even if there are superpowers in the world, maybe it's still ensconced in law. Or maybe it's controversial for some reason because defense attorneys with, you know, big lobbyists or something are able to mostly keep them out of the courtroom except in special cases, you know, like some. Right, right.
01:07:37:07 - 01:07:57:09
Unknown
It's another case. And it's it's one of those things that I'm a I need to go back and I really need to to read where I've referenced truth sensors in the, in the previous books. Because this is like a spot where I can really explain it fairly well. Some of it has to do with the Fifth Amendment.
01:07:57:10 - 01:08:25:02
Unknown
You know, no self-incrimination. And they tend to reserve truth sensors for specific kinds of trials, murder trials, rape stuff like that. The the, major crimes. And there really aren't that many of them, like in a city the size of New Davenport, which is millions of people. I think there's four, that I like that are actively people that I know of in the series.
01:08:25:04 - 01:08:59:05
Unknown
So they're just they're just super rare. And. It's it's, I mean, it's still it's still a society where crime happens. And to demand that a truth sensor be in every single courtroom all the time for every trial would, slow the justice system to almost nonexistent because they'd have to be constantly waiting. Yeah. So. And I think I need I do need to more a more specifically address that.
01:08:59:07 - 01:09:21:04
Unknown
So, especially because I'm sorry. Sorry. Go ahead. And I'm hearing that they're really expensive. Potentially. That's one. Yes. Yes. That would be another thing. Yeah. Definitely hit on the the rarity because you know right after that you talk about two detectives. There's like oh okay. Well there's a if there's a detective pair, it's not like they're partners.
01:09:21:05 - 01:09:44:15
Unknown
Virtues centers like that, that made me feel like they were maybe not super rare. They just happened, but they just happened to be. Yeah, I think if that's a natural position for them, like, I think a detective would be, it'd be really useful to have that barrier. Yeah, but and there are a few times I address it more specifically because again, one of the detect the two detectives in question are main characters and the other series.
01:09:44:17 - 01:10:05:06
Unknown
So every time they go into a question both, they immediately have to address the fact this person is a truth sensor. So your lawyer knows, you know. So anything you say, we will know whether you're telling the truth or not. So then you almost have to have another truth sensor to make sure that that truth sensor is lying.
01:10:05:06 - 01:10:16:00
Unknown
About what? Yes, that the truth is. So yeah, I can see that being really complicated and being. Yeah. Like I didn't say like that could be really controversial about having them. Yeah. Having them in the courtroom.
01:10:16:02 - 01:10:41:16
Unknown
Cool. Yeah. I'll just, I think close out my bit here by, calling out a couple of kudos. There was some really funny stuff in here at JC. After, Mrs. Wolf, the secretary explicitly says Darren expresses his affection in physical ways, and then she kind of clarifies, you can expect messages, gifts and surprise visits, and Jessica's like, that's what she meant.
01:10:41:18 - 01:11:09:07
Unknown
Like, oh, la la. Yeah. Like a picture of sighing in relief or something. That was funny. Another line on the same page. Jessica shrugged. I've resigned myself to fame. Like, for introvert, like, yeah. Yeah, stuff like that. Oh, and, I agree with Tyler about the, supplemental check being a super interesting little detail that you sprinkled in there, which is great.
01:11:09:09 - 01:11:31:23
Unknown
Yeah. Overall, really cool section. I feel like I'm excited to get to another action beat or something. I'm not sure kind of the pacing, how that's going to go forward, but, this is a great little slow bit. Yeah, I'm definitely itching for a bit of a fight scene, if that. I know this is a little bit more of a mystery, but yeah, chasing her or something.
01:11:31:23 - 01:12:01:22
Unknown
Yeah. So I'm trying to remember what scenes next. Yeah, it might be, I might be, I might have it a little too slow off to think about. I'll have to look at what's next. But yeah. No, I can, Yeah, I know that there's some stuff I need to address going back. While I was writing this week, I was I was trying to add in, like, physical descriptors, and I went and looked at my notes and realized I had no idea what Darren looked like.
01:12:02:02 - 01:12:35:17
Unknown
Like, I hadn't I hadn't written down his hair color, his eye color, or anything. And I'm like, that's a problem. I never I never specifically addressed it. And it's one of the, my biggest, I think one of my biggest flaws as a writer is I'm really bad at remembering to put in not a block of he is this tall and he weighs this much and he wears these, but just the little bits, like Adam mentioned last week, just throwaway line the dialog to let me know, oh, he's got green eyes or always a blond or oh, she's this tall or she's this tall.
01:12:35:19 - 01:12:59:06
Unknown
So that's something I've been trying to pick up on and will be like, I was telling Tyler, I usually when I go through on my second edits, I usually add where it's a lot of people talk about taking out, I usually I'm the one that has to put in, and it's usually descriptors, you know. So for me, like physical description for characters is the least important part of their characterization.
01:12:59:08 - 01:13:26:20
Unknown
I had a I had a picture in my mind know what they looked like. I think we got the fact that he's a billionaire, that he, you know, he's he's fairly nice. I yeah, I don't know, unlike so Adam, I was telling Tyler earlier that you guys had a question about some of the scenes and the reason I was able to blow through 20,000 words this week is because I answered those questions in this section.
01:13:26:22 - 01:13:48:06
Unknown
I've got to go back and do some better foreshadowing. But because because of this writing group, because of the feedback I've been getting from you guys, I was actually able to to finish the book. So it's big kudos to you guys being able to give me the feedback that I need to finish it. And I've been working on Technomancer three years now, maybe four.
01:13:48:12 - 01:14:10:10
Unknown
Oh wow. That's a breakthrough. Yeah, yeah. Some dear listener writers groups are really good at helping you finish your books. Yes, they are. Yeah, I know, I look at you guys and I'm like, so I spent my weekend chasing around a bunch of junior highers at like, you know, church camp, but I'm like, I need to get back into this world.
01:14:10:10 - 01:14:32:01
Unknown
Like seeing what you guys, even just that daily word count. I was, like, serious. Like, this is spurring me forward. I really want to and need to get back into it to just that. I even just accountability. I don't know if you call it sometimes it's just a good sense of jealousy or something. I don't know. And you know what I love what I highlighted and I saw my word count 8900.
01:14:32:01 - 01:15:01:05
Unknown
I was like, there going to be? Yeah, yeah. The one day I beat you this week, I was like, yeah, I get to see you. Oh, but I was I was out of the game shop getting ready to DM a game. And I saw that I popped up and I'm like, Oh, that was funny. What was really funny is the game almost didn't happen.
01:15:01:05 - 01:15:10:08
Unknown
I almost didn't have enough players. So I was going to come in and have another hour and a half writing to do.
01:15:10:10 - 01:15:30:08
Unknown
I wish my brain work that way. Yeah, I go ahead. Tyler. I had I had no chance of beating you most this week because I have, you know, my hour in the mornings. I write like when a little bit over this week. But yeah. No. And that's like, that's the big difference. I. I'm a stay at home dad.
01:15:30:10 - 01:15:44:23
Unknown
My boys are at school. I can sit and write as long as I don't. You know, I'm not sick. So, that's part of the reason why I have a published. Yeah. Screw you. Jake, it's.
01:15:45:01 - 01:15:50:22
Unknown
Screw you. In your free time.
01:15:51:00 - 01:16:08:09
Unknown
Yeah, I to bed. No, it's, Yeah, it'll be good to get the rest of that out to you guys. So, like I said, I finally finished it, and now I gotta switch all my attention to my other one. So, yeah, my, my word count is going to go down because I'm gonna spend the next week or so just getting ready.
01:16:08:11 - 01:16:27:16
Unknown
I turn on Grammarly like I turned off Grammarly when I'm writing. And so whenever I turn it on, like I turn on the day, the show, my creative writing class, it was like 903. Oh, my gosh, I'm sure. Oh, I, I don't know if it's actually getting everything. You know, I think it might just be you get into like a certain level of and caffeine now.
01:16:27:18 - 01:17:04:13
Unknown
Yeah. So I got my work cut out for me. But yeah, when I bought, pro writing aid and turned it on after I'd been using Grammarly for, years, I switched over to pro writing it, turned it on, and I was like, oh, that's a lot. That hurts to look. It's it's just. Yeah, yeah. And on the on that the with the grammar software, I really they add a if you don't have it yet Grammarly or pro writing it'll really help you catch those spots where you're just being a little too wordy.
01:17:04:15 - 01:17:27:15
Unknown
Like, what are you trying I'm saying if you're getting if you're reading through it and you're, you're stuck at a point where you're like, okay, is this too much? Is this not enough? You can actually generate reports that are saying, maybe you can cut words down here and here. They on top. I'm always going to listeners pay attention.
01:17:27:15 - 01:17:52:02
Unknown
I'm always going to say get an editor. But I hire me. Yeah, hire Adam or Tyler. You can always make Adam, too. Yes. Adam too. You can always make your editors life easier. By having a solid piece of grammar software beyond. Just like word. That's probably the biggest piece of advice I can give. The reason I use pro writing.
01:17:52:02 - 01:18:19:08
Unknown
Edit because they have a lifetime license. You can buy, where you don't. You, that you buy it once and you're done. So. Yeah. Subscriptions suck. Yeah. I'm so tired of subscription culture. Yeah. No, a lot of mine are coming up. Do. And I was like, oh, that's going to be terrible. Yeah, yeah. So, I've got I've got a question for you guys and then maybe we should, we should close out the episode.
01:18:19:08 - 01:18:43:03
Unknown
Unless you guys have anything else you want to say. So all of us have in our different in our different books. Not necessarily the one you're working on right now. JK but we have people who speak in a slightly more archaic way. I was thinking, you know, I've got, you know, you know, you guys have any kind of this notebook yet, but, and we've talked about how it's really a struggle to get that voice down right.
01:18:43:05 - 01:19:05:04
Unknown
What would you guys think about, having, like, I look at your document and this is kind of a philosophical question for our listeners. Have an I look at our look at our manuscripts and point out all like the anachronisms, all the times where the archaic, language doesn't feel as natural. How do you feel about that?
01:19:05:06 - 01:19:40:03
Unknown
I think that would be interesting. That was one of the things I learned, when I bought pro Writing aid, actually, they will pick up on, like, non-English standard spellings and, like, older dialect. And so to me, it was interesting that I was using a lot of non-American English spellings in my writing, for example, towards, how many of us use towards in our everyday language and I American English.
01:19:40:03 - 01:20:03:16
Unknown
The standard is toward. Without the s. And I was like really it to me it was, it was interesting and I think and I think having something analyze especially like iridescent for me, Adam, your book just in general has got the, the, the older feel to it because it is, a fantasy setting.
01:20:03:16 - 01:20:24:22
Unknown
I think that would be an interesting, interesting to see, you know, where we're fitting in with our language, whether it's staying consistent or not. Yeah. And this is something I find pretty interesting. I, I on a, like, a moral level, I have no problem. Like taking my manuscript and feeding it to a rock and say, help me.
01:20:25:00 - 01:20:47:08
Unknown
Because I'm using it. I'm using it like an analytical tool. It's an evolution of, you know, the spell checker in Grammarly. In one sense, as far as you know, analyzing the anachronisms that your characters use because I'm sure, like you guys have already pointed out in previous sessions, I'm kind of like mixing things. Right. You have.
01:20:47:10 - 01:21:09:11
Unknown
That I would use in my everyday life mixed with, you know token speech or like what the heck is going on here. So I, I feel like having a range can be beneficial if one character is given to that sort of speech, as long as the other character isn't using like modern American slang, you know, and dropping F-bombs, you know, like, instead of fantasy swears like it.
01:21:09:13 - 01:21:27:23
Unknown
I think there is a certain amount of range that's acceptable. You know, one character in a story, they're going to be a little bit more. Right? And one character is a street thug. And I'm still kind of finding the balance between that. That's one thing I think is interesting about Sanderson is that his his verbiage tends to be a little bit more, it feels recent.
01:21:27:23 - 01:21:49:00
Unknown
It doesn't feel like he's trying to make it token esque. And I don't have a problem with Vulcan or with him. Consistency is the interesting question, right? Like whether or not you can achieve that imbalance. A world in which some characters talk one way and and another. Yeah, yeah, that's always the in a slightly lesser degree. I mean, series.
01:21:49:00 - 01:22:12:16
Unknown
You've got my two main characters, Ace and Angela. They're twin sisters. One's a fortress class, one's a mental class. Angela studies a lot. She has a wider vocabulary, so I deliberately have to make that shift. If I switch POVs, I'm not. I'm usually writing Ace's POV, but if I switch to Angela, I have to think about that. Is that a word that she would use, or is that a word that ace would use?
01:22:12:18 - 01:22:41:23
Unknown
And so that that that making sure that your character or that people aren't, that your characters are different people and with different levels of speech, different levels of education, different levels of different types of grammar. I that's a really good point, because within a story you have characters with different levels of understanding and different experiences. So yeah, you make a good point with that.
01:22:42:01 - 01:22:57:09
Unknown
What do you think, Charlie? I think it's an interesting question. I definitely, you know, I think, you know, there was the temptation initiatives like, I don't know if I could write this guy's voice. I just have it. I like, hey, take what I wrote here and make it more, okay? Make it Shakespearean. And and I really that that wasn't the question.
01:22:57:10 - 01:23:23:14
Unknown
I see you guys, but I definitely fall on the side of not doing that. But using AI as a tool for that. I, I, I think, you know, on one hand where there's going to be a new generation of writers who can't write because of AI, because they've relied so heavily on AI. But I think on the other side of that, there's going to be there's going to be a generations of writers who've used AI to train themselves, themselves.
01:23:23:14 - 01:23:42:12
Unknown
The writer, again, not using AI to, to, to do the writing, but to because it's, you know, it's like having an editor. It's like having me over your shoulder every single day, potentially like, hey, yeah. Does this guy's voice match his voice here? Does, you know, I, I'm okay. I think I'm falling on this side of. That's okay.
01:23:42:14 - 01:24:16:15
Unknown
Yeah. No, it doesn't feel so much like cheating. Yeah, I think I view it. I really view it as a as a tool that can be utilized appropriately by, you know, by writers to make sure that that they're writing well, not to have it right for them. But, you know, I mean, to make your editors job a little bit easier, you know, maybe instead of being able to pay for one, one revision, you can pay for two because they don't have to spend as much time on either one.
01:24:16:17 - 01:24:47:05
Unknown
Yeah. It's one more filter that you can pass your work through potentially, you know? Yeah. Like Jesse said, before you get to editor so your editor doesn't have to agonize quite so much. Hopefully. Yeah. And that's the big thing. Yeah. The, one of the classes that I took, that's. Yeah. Bedtime night. But. One of the, the classes I took was one of the editing classes with, Brianna Call, and she talked.
01:24:47:06 - 01:25:10:07
Unknown
She talked about that, how the more you can do prior to submitting it to an editor, the more the editors going to be able to do for you. And so if I is that that that first editor, I don't have I don't and then we're probably going to if once we publish this, we're going to get dragged in the comments.
01:25:10:07 - 01:25:33:19
Unknown
But to me, I don't I don't view it as a, a net negative. If it's just a tool to help you improve as a writer, it's no different than me giving my my work to you guys and having you go over it. And the AI is going to make mistakes and and make weird suggestions to not that you guys make just like you.
01:25:33:21 - 01:26:05:01
Unknown
That's me. I make the weird suggestions. Yeah, I, I definitely isn't going to replace actual actual human editors anytime soon, so I feel pretty secure. So yeah. And the editor for for those listening, the editor is the one that said that. So excited to. Answer. Well, with that, I think, let's you guys do anything else you want to you want to talk about, when you close this out, I think we should plug some things.
01:26:05:03 - 01:26:30:08
Unknown
So, like, anything to do with, with the podcast? Yeah. Jesse, why don't you go first? Maybe, people to you. I've got, I've got my here unit series. The fifth volume of that just came out in December. So if you're somebody who likes to get into a series that's got a few extra units at volume five, like I said, and that's superheroes.
01:26:30:08 - 01:26:52:18
Unknown
Superhero procedural. I've got the Barrel Street murder and this is a a plagued soul. That's the Tavern of Mysteries. That's my fantasy series. So if fannies fantasy is more your thing, those are out. All of them are available in print. All of our all of them are available in e-book. You can get them at most e-book.
01:26:52:18 - 01:27:17:10
Unknown
And, off Amazon and, or, there's links on my website just JC by B.Com. Or you can go and see the ones and get the ones you want. Absolutely sweet. I'll just use reverse psychology here and say do not check out my Substack because it's a dumpster fire right now with like 1 or 2 shorts.
01:27:17:12 - 01:27:41:21
Unknown
But the plan, just maybe by the time this airs is to have a few more shorts within the same world is a fantasy story that we've been savaging that I'm currently writing. So if you're interested in bad fiction and fantasy world, I don't check that out. Definitely not bad. It's like, no, no, six weeks out of, for me, I guess.
01:27:41:23 - 01:28:00:11
Unknown
I'd love to edit your book if you have a book, find me on Facebook, I guess would be the easiest way. Tyler has look for my face. I don't look too different in my photo. I am wearing a tie. Oh, by the way, I should show off my shirt for the podcast, which just, for listeners, I'm wearing a grammar.
01:28:00:11 - 01:28:20:04
Unknown
Please. Listeners, not viewers. I'm wearing a grammar police t shirt, so it's very unbranded for me. Yeah. Well, thank you, our dear listener. We're going to name you now. We're not going to name you. That'll be weird. I do. We will see you next week. Oh, Carlos. Week. Goodbye, Carlos.