Escaping Political Persecution in Venezuela

Miroslava Colan, a Venezuelan student at North Carolina State University, shares with us the gripping story of the risks she had taken in becoming an active political figure. She talks about how her opposition started, how she navigated a difficult environment, and how she ended up leaving Venezuela in pursuit of a different life. Be aware that some instances might be sensitive to some people.

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Creators & Guests

Host

Abdullah Najjar

What is Connecting the Pack?

"Connecting the Pack" is a podcast from WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2 that allows international students to share their unique stories and how they have ended up studying at NC State.

Abdullah Najjar 0:00
All right. Welcome to another episode of connecting to pack. This is your host Abdullah Najjar. And today I'm joined by Miroslava Colan.

Okay, so Miroslava is a student from Venezuela.

Miroslava Colan 1:14
Since I was a little kid, I've always wanted to study abroad. And I've always wanted to study in the United States.

My dad spend a season here. So we used to watch a lot of American movies. And I has always been interested in academia. Since I was a child. I think my mom used to tell me like I used to go around the house with collars and with a sheet of paper. And she was in I wanted to go to school, because my cousin's used to go to school. So she tells me that I've been a nerd my entire life. So definitely, I think that that's like the main reason why I've always been interested in like, studying abroad. I wanted to do it on my undergrad, but it wasn't possible for us. So I pursued my, my undergrad in Venezuela. And then for my grad school, I had that gold mine. And I was like, Okay, I want to pursue this goal. I want to pursue this goal. I worked after graduation for two or three years in Venezuela, two years, and in Venezuela, and Colombia. And then I won this Fulbright scholarship. And I was selected for the Fulbright scholarship, and then I'm here. Wow. So let me try to

Abdullah Najjar 0:18
She is currently pursuing an MA in International Studies. And today we'll we'll talk about a little bit about her background, the decision that she made to move into the United States and pursue grad school. And so some of the lessons learned and experiences that she some of her experiences here in the US and Venezuela. So Miroslava Welcome to the studio.

Speaker 1 0:45
Thank you so much, Bala. Hi, everyone. It's good to be here.

Abdullah Najjar 0:50
Thank you. So um, Miroslava, there's, there's a lot that I'd love to talk to you today. There's nothing left to talk to you about today. And first off, I'd be interested to know about why you know, why you chose to pursue grad school in the United States. What motivated you to do that?

pick up on a couple of things you just mentioned, you said that you were not. You weren't capable of going to us for undergrad? Yes. Okay. Um, what were what would you attribute that to being capable to make it here to the States?

Speaker 1 2:45
Well, I finished high school in 2014. And Venezuela wasn't in a really good place back then. He's not in a really good place either. Right now, okay. I'm also I was young, and I wasn't like ready to move by myself. So I didn't like look for it. But it was still in my mind. Also, I will select it in the vast University of Venezuela to pursue my undergrad. So I was like, Okay, then I'm going to do it. I wanted to be a lawyer. But then I was selected by the the National University of Minnesota last name University of Central learning as well. So it, it was like, Okay, I'm gonna pursue political sciences. Since that was already my passion. It's just that my mom was a lawyer. And I want it to be just like my mom, but then, but I've been involved into politics since a young age. So I was like, Okay,

Abdullah Najjar 3:37
let's do it. Wow. You've been involved in politics since a young age. Were you also involved during your undergrad? Years? undergrad?

Speaker 1 3:46
Yes. And after graduation as well? And how did

Abdullah Najjar 3:50
that look like? What sort of how would you describe that experience the involvement in politics,

Speaker 1 3:54
it was dangerous. I think that's the way I could describe it. Okay. Um, it was interesting. I learned a lot without it. I wouldn't be the professional or the student or the person I am today. However, I know, I knew back then that it was dangerous. I didn't know to what scale. Yeah, but definitely, being involved into politics goes beyond just being the face of the politician or just being in front of the camera. It also in Venezuela, we have an A student movement. It's a university student movement, that it's all across the country and it is all across the each university whether they are private public, autonomous or not. Because we have a different university system. Yeah. And usually historically, as soon as has been pretty prominent and has been on interest and pressure act. Turn stakeholder the country. So if you politicians usually use students who are involved in politics for pursuing their goals or interests, it's been historically that way, but also soon as push for their own interest. For example, in 2007, in Venezuela, there was a they shut down a national TV channel that has been that was there for more than 50 years. 30 years. So it was historically a common theme in watch channel in every Venezuelan home. Ed was named Raluca. Costello is one where

Abdullah Najjar 5:45
you say

Unknown Speaker 5:48
so it was Caracas radio, TV. You could say, Yeah, I speak Spanish pretty fast. Yeah. Sometimes

Abdullah Najjar 5:55
it's hard to keep up on me. I don't understand the language. But, you know, sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 1 6:01
Cuz television was. So Radio Caracas TV was traditional TV TV channel, and they wanted to shut it down. And the Sunnah movement went out in protest against it. And afterwards, after that, that was like the vagus punch and turned on a freedom of expression, and freedom of speech. And Astrid Ward's, then everything just came, just fell apart. Oh, God, like all freedoms just fell apart after that, after 2007 after 2007. So it was progressively going, like falling apart. But then, when I got into university in 2014, because I'm not that old, I didn't go to I wasn't part of that movement. Yeah. In 2014. The economic crisis hit, right. With oil country, like, you know, oil country, oil producer country, which wasn't, was incoherent, if we could say that. Okay. And in 2014, there were lines for getting basic supplies, basic food, and the in the supermarkets. It didn't matter how much money you had, you had to be on line for 674 hours to get corn flour, which is the basic ingredient for the EPA, which is our sandwich, if we could say that the rapper, the rapper. So it was a really hard time. And this didn't improve on till 2018 2019. And during that time, we as soon as we built up a sort of movement that was against the government. But we used to do protests, but seems 2014 until 2019, when I graduated, none of our products got off from the university, because the police was was just blocking us and was spreading prepper gas and, and even shots. In some cases,

Abdullah Najjar 8:27
like the real shots, whoa, they used guns, live ammunition, and

Speaker 1 8:32
many of us were jailed. Many of us just migrate it, oh, many of us were persecuted. And you didn't need to be like the face of the movement. You could be like, on the back, like strategizing that was more like my role. Even though I was part of the student movement, I was part of the student centers of the Student Government of my, of my university of my school. But he was centrist because the government was just prosecuting you. So

Abdullah Najjar 9:05
this is very risky for you know, a college student who just started there, you know, they just want to start future they want to build a future they want to figure things out. But being involved in such activities at a younger at a young age must be I mean, it's dangerous, and I'm sure your your parents might have felt that it was risky as well. Right? What was well, how did you deal with that? Well,

Speaker 1 9:31
I'm an only child. Okay. So that didn't make it like any better but I'm going on the tile and ones there real time when I was truly truly moved when I was out Protestant and I even I was even followed by the police and the police came to my house and everything was in 2000 from 2017 until 2019 I And then after 2020, but we can talk about that later because that's after. But in that, back then I was my parents were pretty worried and concerned about my safety. Yeah. And I even remember staying at friend's house because I didn't want to go home. Because if I was followed home, then they could be in danger. However, they, however, they were pretty concerned. And sometimes we had we got into arguments because of that. They knew that I was doing that, because I had larger vision, if that makes sense that I was truly committed with the cause of training? Well, yeah, we could say turning on the government, we can say that because we were in a position of the government. And when you are in opposition to a dictatorship, they see you as the enemy. Well, however, you have the the elements are not to turn in them. We didn't have them. But we were part of that pressure group that was bothering their comfort zone of oppressing everybody,

Abdullah Najjar 11:12
my goodness. And you said, a lot of your friends or people from that opposition group were either imprisoned or captured. I hope no one got killed. But okay, but how how did that make you feel that some a lot of the people that you're associated with were being captured and you know, maybe being imprisoned? Did that weigh heavily on you? Or how did you deal with that?

Speaker 1 11:41
Well, that was a hard time. I remember one of my closest friends, he was in jail. Oh, the day he was in jail. I was home. He was out partisan. And I was sending them the data and the information about where it was the police coming from, or where was the National Guard coming from for them to just escape. However, they couldn't, and he was jailed. He was there for 50 days. And we used to go, we couldn't see him. Nobody could see him just his mom. And just like twice in 50 days. He was a hard process because they we even hire lawyer lawyers, but I mean, they weren't hired because they were pro bono. So they were from an NGO that was working with political prisoners. So that's what he was a political prisoner. Okay. And we were we, once that happened, the movement automatically. While that our part, our cell of the movement was like, hold on, nobody's helping us. None of this politicians are doing anything to help us and we're not doing it for them. But they are using us. So we were at that point, we were like, Okay, if they went after this friend that I'm talking about which I'm who I'm gonna gonna name, you don't have to, um, he, once he got into a jail, we were like, they are coming after us. In the only way they know where we're at. It's because they have people who inform them who gifts and information and who could be that. Oh, only people who know who we are.

Abdullah Najjar 13:36
Wow. So we make cells? Yeah,

Speaker 1 13:39
it could be it could be. But I mean, those are just speculations that we have. So back then when that happened. We were like, Okay, we get up. Even though we're seeking for, like something bigger. We just gotta calm down. Because if not, we're not we're not gonna graduate because back then the university stopped our operations. Oh, yeah. We weren't on class.

Abdullah Najjar 14:05
Wait, what what happened then? Why did they stop? Because

Speaker 1 14:09
it wasn't safe for anybody to be at the university because we were partisan and and the government was tearing us down. Oh, so the professor's which the which happens a lot in Venezuela when there are political problems that professors and the students go to something named pada pada pada pada pada. So it's like someone, it's like the entire University System, or at least the public universities that we call autonomous in this case, because publics are from the government and autonomous are free, but they are not owned by the government. They are owned by themselves. They have their own tent canceller and the your own system. It's kind of a private school. No, it's not private. Because it's, it's, it's accessible because you don't pay for anything. Oh, okay. And it's public because any One can get in. It's just that they are autonomous because the government even though they have to fund that by law, they can they can not even get into the university. So for example, we used to stay at the University the entire day, because the police wasn't allowed to get into university because that was an autonomous zone. Well, where the by law couldn't get in.

Abdullah Najjar 15:21
Okay, okay. It's like an embassy. Yes, some

Speaker 1 15:24
things. But yeah, of course, they sometimes violated that. So what happens with a party, so the University System of autonomous universities just stop war operations? Like, they stopped, they suspend classes. And even though classes are suspended since students still come to university, because they prod us, okay, or they build up strategy, and well, it's like a pressure system that we do. It's pretty cultural as well.

Abdullah Najjar 15:56
Yeah. So that was what year again? 2019. That was 2017. Seven. Whoa, and What? What? Were you like a freshman sophomore in college? That point? That

Speaker 1 16:10
point? I was. I was a sophomore. Wow.

Abdullah Najjar 16:14
And all of that. Just like, did you ever imagine that? That was how your college experience was gonna look like, just filled with so much, you know, unexpectedness,

Speaker 1 16:28
I knew I was going to engage. I knew that I was going to advocate because he was on me. Like, it was my personality. Yeah, I couldn't just see things happen and not doing anything about it. And I'm not just talking about the country. I'm talking about my school system as well, like I'm talking about my How do you call it here? So in here, you call it like, your whole system? Like the holes where you leave? Yeah, but we call it faculties. Okay. So I can not order the holes where you study at, or the schools where you study at, like chess, for example. So in order colleges, we could call the colleges. So the college where I was studying, which was in Venezuela, it is law, like it is law college. Okay. So political sciences and law are in the same college, right. So I couldn't stand that some stuff with the school system where I'm working, or the college system we're working. So I got involved with that. And then everything turn out into one thing came to get God to another, and I got truly advocate and civically engaged. And I don't regret.

Abdullah Najjar 17:44
You don't read any of that? Wow, I did not. Okay. Wow. That is, that's not the typical college experience of, say someone here in the United States. This is very unique, very special and filled with so many, I'm sure. Good memories, some might not be very good. But it? How do you do people generally in Venezuela, expect something similar from their college experience? Or was that merely something that might have been unique during the the 2000 tense? What would you say is

Speaker 1 18:30
just sort of movement as a political actor has always been there? Okay. However, getting involved into the student, government, the student movement, it's not something that it's normal. I mean, the average college student doesn't get involved into that. They just go Venezuela. Yeah, they just go today to their classes, and they do other stuff. Like they play, I don't know, soccer, or they. They get involved into model of United Nations to be which I was involved as well. So it's, it's something that, like, going through all that, even though we wanted to make it like seem normal, wasn't normal. Yeah, but we were a committed group of 2123 20 fours. People in their 20s 20s in their early 20s COMM made it to admission that we had about change in the system. However, it didn't happen. But it wasn't because of the movement itself. It was also because of the opposition elites. Oh, yeah. So yeah, I mean, it wasn't it's not like the the majority of this of the University of population just gets involved. That's not the way it is. Yeah, just a small number. Students and all across colleges, like it's not just like the law college or chess. It's all across the university. So each college has their, like, leaders in each one of their careers.

Abdullah Najjar 20:18
So, earlier, you said that there was there was the phase that was post 2020. And there's the phase that precedes 2020. How well how different was that phase like 2020 and beyond, because you are still involved in politics, right, and maybe an opposition group, but how would you describe that experience? How different was it?

Speaker 1 20:42
Okay, so getting into context, I got enrolled into university into college when I was 17. Okay, antoin on 2014, and I graduated in 2019. And I was 22. When I graduated, I began working for a nonprofit organization for another nonprofit organization, to nonprofits. One was a freedom speech, and the other one was about political rights and civic engagement. So afterwards, then a professor after COVID Head on March, because we got into love 2020. We got into lockdown on March 2020. I graduated in December 2019. So it was, it was like, I was just like, not finding good jobs. I used to work. So I was a political leader and everything like in the university student leader and everything, but I was working as an English teacher. Oh, okay. I have four kids. So I've been having a few lives. So interesting transition. So I was working, doing that, because I was like, what gave me profits. And the other two jobs were not as profitable as I would well as profitable as they should have. And then a professor calls me and tells me Moore's law. I got a good friend who is looking for an assistant. And he works. The Opposition. Well, we used to call it the interim precedency. Okay, because supposedly, so there was a cube, I could say some columns kiss in, amongst, let me call colons. DITA, like a coup d'etat. It was a coupe. But but it didn't happen that way. It was just a parliamentary. Yeah, change of government. But it wasn't enforced because the parliament was opposition was from the opposition, and the opposition named a new precedent. However, the division of power in Venezuela wasn't wasn't enforced. I mean, the parliament was already persecuted by the government. So that precedent was an interim precedent on their via position terms. However, he didn't have any control of anything like whether the army or the, or the oil or the resources, it was more about, like an opposition movement that was trying to position eight and interim precedent, okay, based on their based on the parliament that they were leading, which was the actual parliament, like they won those elections. However, since in Venezuela, the division of power and the power balance was already on scratches, then it wasn't like real, if we could say that, okay, but it was still in opposition and pressure movement. And it was pretty serious back then. Like when they begin in 2019. You was pretty serious back then. So on 2020, this professor calls me and two weeks pass, and this person calls me. It's like, Hey, I heard you're really good at what you do. I want to remind team, this is what's going on. So I worked for that interim presidency, in the precedence. Team. Oh, and then yeah, one way Bill was his name. What is his name? Because he's the CEO life. He's living now in the United States. So then this person who called me he was like, hey, MIROS I need you to work right ahead, like right now. So I began working for different projects. And I was most likely supervising and reporting and evaluating that the project was going away should have and that every leader that we had on the field was doing what they had to do the mission that they had. But he was 2020. So their restrictions and the lockdown in Minnesota was pretty rough. When I'm talking about pretty rough that we had more than nine months in lockdown. Oh, wow. We used to need like a special permit to do groceries. He was pretty similar to China, you know, in a smaller scale. Interesting. Yeah. But it was, well, it is it they're besties like China, Venezuela, like government, they're besties. So definitely they they share practices. Yeah. Um, so afterwards, they just got cut us off from that project. And Boca, you, um, the entire project, just, it was just caught off. And they had issues with my actual boss. And my boss was like, MIROS, I want you to stay here, because you're gonna learn a lot. And you're really good at what you do. And I used to help a congresswoman from that movement. And she told him, I want her in my team. And I became the chief of the other team of her parliamentary team. And I was still working on the NGO with another project that was tracking the situation in the public hospitals on their a humanitarian crisis in Venezuela. So and under COVID. So we had a lot of information about like that there wasn't even like bleach or any kind of hygiene in those

Abdullah Najjar 27:00
health centers. Like they weren't sanitize, they wanted certain

Speaker 1 27:03
to sanitize, many people died, we even had the actual rates in data of how many deaths by carpet were. So definitely that sensitive information. So I was pretty expose, also having the information and the in the opposition movement or the entering presidency, and the Congress was pretty delicate as well. So I was already exposed. Yeah, then I, a friend, political scientist, calls me and asks me, What are you doing right now? Now, it's like, Well, I'm just, you know, doing some work with NGO and this interim opposition with when he tells me like, I got a proposal for you. We're building a movement all across the country, with the students and they need assessment. And assessment. Yeah, they need assessment, and they need someone to be there consultant with me. And I want you as my partner. Oh, man, I was like, Yeah, you know, I love his strategy. Let's do it. Then everything just turned pretty dark. Like going through all those three different jobs. Yeah, I was truly exposed. And then some, I was, I was able to see some of the police officers and the military police going around my house. going out at night wasn't safe for me, because I had my laptop on me. And if they checked my laptop, and the only information I have there, that was that wasn't going to turn out well, I could be in jail. And I was by myself with my car during nine. So my parents were pretty concerned. I wasn't back then. But then when they, they they started calming to like, lay around my apartment complex. And one of them got involved with my neighbor, my downstairs neighbor. I knew though something was going on. And so they were spying. And they were, like, threaten me, but threatening me. But now quietly, if that makes sense. Whoa.

Abdullah Najjar 29:20
So Are you by any chance still involved right now even though you're here in the US? I mean, did you say goodbye to that world that you're involved in? Are you? Well,

Speaker 1 29:34
then comes the other part of the story. Okay, so afterwards, my Congresswoman tells me Hey, we're having an international parliamentary tour towards South America and Central America. Yeah, please settle everything. And I I made everything I made. I made all the planet logistics and everything. And I got into a blame on August 3 2022. Okay, attorneys, you know, 2021 Okay, awesome. Two years ago, three years ago, I got into a plane. But when I got to the airport, military police asks me, What do you do for a living? And I was like, I'm an English teacher. And he was like, Yeah, or you're an English teacher and an English teacher is going to travel to Dominican Republic, and then to Costa Rica, and then to Ecuador. That doesn't seem like I was like, Yeah, I'm an English teacher. So that was pretty scary, because I felt that they weren't going to just enjoy me up in the airport, but they didn't. So I flew to Dominican Republic, and then flew to Costa Rica, and met my Congresswoman. And we were there. We did lovey all across the parliaments of these countries. And then we got to Colombia, where I had family. My closest family was there. And once my closest family because nobody knew what I was doing, once they figured out what I was doing for a living. They told me mirrors you can no go. Like you can not return to Venezuela. You haven't seen it because you were there. And once you're there, you're like a horse in a race. You don't you don't look like all around you. You don't look your surroundings, but you can you get to be safe. So my aunt, my mother's sister offered me to stay there with her and her family. And she was because they had already like two vacant rooms, because my cousins were already gone. And I remained there with her my uncle and her daughter, like her daughter, and he's better Michelson. I stayed there for three months. And I was like, doing Venice, like things from Venezuela finishing my jumps in Venezuela, with NGO and everything. And then I was like, Okay, what am I going to do here? I'm not even legally in the country. Well, I was legally in the country, because they have a temporary protection status for Venezuelans there. But I wasn't enrolled in that. But I was I wasn't staying there for a moment for more than 90 days back then. So I was like, What am I going to do? And then I met someone who was connected with the previous government of Colombia. And he was like, Miroslava, I'm looking for Venezuelan Colombian candidates all across the country,

Abdullah Najjar 32:44
for what candidate for the

Speaker 1 32:46
Senate and the Congress, oh, in Colombia, and I was like, okay, I can recruit them. Because I was already doing social work, like leadership work over there, like civic engagement with migrant population in Venezuela. I wasn't working because it cannot be named work because he wasn't paid. Yeah. But it was like, volunteer work. Yeah, volunteer work. So I was already like, in the scene, if that makes sense. I was already on the scene. So then I bid that, and one of the candidates that I brought into the party into the government party, was like, I told him when I was doing his form for filling out for candidate. I was like, hey, you need a chief of campaign? And he was like, Yeah, but I think that's you. And that was like, No, you don't even know me. I mean, we have to barely talk. Like we have talk for a month, but you did someone who you trust, right? He was like, I trust you. Because I trust your potential. I've seen you. So I know that we're gonna make it. So I got into that. I was his chief of campaign of Simone, Simone. Gumbo is his name. And we went all over Colombia. We like we were a team of four people only for a Senate campaign, which is large. But we were mostly to like him and I because we had only volunteers. So they had their full time jobs. And we, and they were my friends from Venezuela as well who migrated to Colombia. So they were they were political scientists as well. And they helped me a lot. But we were like, just the two of us. Just the two of us. Well, then they can paint just was over. Because the election they came, he didn't win. And we knew that. We knew that this was a visibility campaign instead of like a Winning Campaign. But afterwards, like in the middle of the campaign, I remember. Someone from the embassy calls me Hey, Miroslava Do you remember you apply for the Fulbright scholarship? Oh, wow. That was like, oh, yeah, of course.

Abdullah Najjar 35:09
Like from the US Embassy? Yeah.

Speaker 1 35:11
I was like, Yeah, of course. I've been in touch with you through mail. And they were like, Yeah, well, you're going to the United States on March

Speaker 1 35:26
or so since Venezuelans were allowed to stay in Colombia longer time. So I was legally in the country but not enrolled into like the temporary protection status or anything. But I was legally there. But then I was like, Okay, I was thinking about enrolling. Because I see the opportunities are coming up, but I'm leaving. And I left five days after the election.

Abdullah Najjar 35:48
Five days after the election, you went to the Venezuela? No, did East United States. I

Speaker 1 35:55
went very straight from Colombia to the United States, because I couldn't get back to Venezuela.

Abdullah Najjar 36:00
Okay.

Speaker 1 36:01
Then. Then they were like, okay, because I knew I was in the second place of the place of the of the scholarship, and they only had one scholarship. Oh, like you were waitlisted I wasn't a waitlist? Oh, I was the first person to witless. I don't know what happened to the first person. And if any, if that person is listening to me, thank you. But then they call me and they were like, Yeah, you're going to Iowa. Wow. So that's pretty much of my work story. If

Abdullah Najjar 36:31
we could, oh, my gosh, do a summary about what a journey. what a what a story. What a what an experience. This is, is incredible. No, seriously. And so he stayed in Iowa. And then now he's spent a couple of months in Iowa and then he moved to NC State.

Speaker 1 36:49
I spend nine months in Iowa, not just a couple. from March until December 2022. Yeah. 20 attorney tale. And then I was pleasing in the state. Most of my Fulbright foreign classmates who were with me and I, oh, they left after two semesters, like spring semester and summer semester. Okay. They were placed back then. But I wasn't because I had a few issues with toffel as well. But at the same time, I think it was in my time, like to be completely honest, because I had issues with stuff or when I'm talking about like, my computer didn't run the proctor. Oh, like test, like the tests like the system of the test. So people who had taken TOEFL, which I believe is almost the entire population who can listen to the spark. People who had taken TOEFL knows that doing TOEFL at home is just pretty tough. Because you know, the proctor the system, they they do a surveillance system for you. So your computer basically needs to be like, reset. Yeah. So they, yeah, they took my I had like three failed tests because of the proctor system. Oh, that's, that's terrible. Yeah. And I took other tool. And my main problem was my reading my reading skills, because I wasn't I wasn't aware that I needed glasses. Oh, that's another issue where I figure it out. And I think that it wasn't my time, like God wanted what God or whatever everyone believes in, or if you don't believe in anything, that's totally fine destiny or science or whatever. I'm just wondering, just saying Iowa and I spent a really good time there. I met wonderful friends who I keep in touch with. I went to Thanksgiving with one of my roommates from Minnesota. I broke my ankle there.

Abdullah Najjar 38:57
You broke your one my ankle. Your ankle. Oh, my. Sorry to hear that. Yeah. So

Speaker 1 39:03
I broke my ankle there. And I moved when I was when I had my ankle broken in many people helped me I had a host a wonderful host family because we had a host family system in the in the University of Northern Iowa. Yeah, where we used to meet every every week. So I experienced so many things. And I was involved with a Midwest culture. Midwest. Yeah. And it's, it's no it was, I don't know, I believe that that was like a great first hand experience. And then in December, I called I called for like November and I was like, Hey, I know this is great to stay here. I would love to stay here in Northern Iowa. But there are no like programs for me or my interest. And in Iowa was where I figured out that I wanted to focus and dedicate my life to migration policy. Yeah. And because, of course all the experiences So in Colombia, which was a country that had a lot of migration from Venezuela, a lot of Venezuelan migration was there like to beat 2 million people leave 2 million Venezuelans leaving Colombia back then. Now there are three point something but then coming to United States and seeing like the different issues of a migration, not only Venezuelans, but also like all the the problems across the Americas with the migration issue. So I was writing an essay after writing an essay of sustainable tourism for a class where an English class and then I was like, What am I gonna do with this essay that it's a final essay from my spring semester in the English pre academic course? What am I going to do? And then I was like, thinking of thinking and thinking and thinking. And I remember, I had a flashback about my campaign, like the way I went, like the way I left Venezuela, the way the migrants were crossing the very end to come to the United States. And then it was like, Hey, this is my inner Earth. And I began writing about that, and I haven't stopped since then. Wow. And then I call my Fulbright advisor, and I was like, Hey, I hope everything is fine. But I changed my interests, my research interests. So that was harder for them to place me as well. Oh, yeah. And then I November, I called them out. I was like, Hey, I know. This is great. I love them in Iowa. But I need to know, where am I gonna do? Like my, my grad school? They were like, Yeah, we are still like, on the process. And I was like, Okay, I'll be patient. And then December 1, they were like, Hey, you have two options, all dominion, Virginia state. And then I call my that, because this is my that's lifetime dream. Like my dad always wanted to study in an American university. Yeah. So I called my dad and I was like, Daddy, I don't know what to do. I really like old Armenian because it's nearby DC, but I didn't know. And he was like, Islam nearby. It's like, three hours away. Oh, my. And I was like, Yeah, you're right. And then he was like, Yeah, but you're gonna make the choice. But you know, in essence, the university has this and they have the wolves and they have it. And my dad did my entire research. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna do my research. Well, it's just that all I mean, you have a lot of marketing. So then I was like, Okay, once I saw the investment in research that all the meaning had versus NC State. I was like, Okay, then I'm going to insane. And I chose NC State, and my dad was like, Oh, my God. Thank God, you that this. The the made this decision. And in that matter, insist state for an American university system is proportionally the same type of university, that my university in Venezuela

Abdullah Najjar 42:54
was oh, so it wasn't much of a shock to you then? Well, it was but

Speaker 1 43:01
of course, yeah. But what I'm talking about, like the type of universities that I stayed from that university, is a state university that has its own rules as well. So it's like, it works pretty much pretty similarly, which are a little bit similar. Right?

Abdullah Najjar 43:14
Wow. Well, congratulations. I'm very happy that you made that, you know, you made that decision. I'm sure it was the right decision. And I'm glad we we had this conversation, such an interesting journey. You know, this is fascinating. It's incredible. Like, you'd never know what, what story, this international student next you might have to share. But yeah, I appreciate your time. Miroslava. Thank you so much for sharing this with me. And I hope that in the future, we can have more conversations about this.

Speaker 1 43:53
Of course, any any connecting the pack fellow wants to talk about migration or integration or anything related to migration policy. I'm more than open to that's a virgin feel that it's going out there. But it's the current issue that we that I am tackling, and I think that it's going to be an agenda for the future. Hopefully, because if not, yeah, and thank you so much for your time and making international students and their stories and backgrounds visible.

Abdullah Najjar 44:26
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate that.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai