Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features eight members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast, presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Roost, Poobah, Senator, Pagoda, Chef Ricky, and Bam Bam, a full house of lizards, and our plan is to smoke a cigar.
Drink some bourbon, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs. So take this as your 167th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. We plan to do this here once a week. We're going to smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating.
We smoke Cigar Aficionado's number one cigar for 2024. We discuss how disconnected the cold draw can sometimes be, and we answer some listener email, all among a variety of other things for the next two hours. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy, as we pair Will It Pot Still Reserve Bourbon with my father, M. F. the Judge Gran Rebusto.
Another 60 ring gauge cigar [00:01:00] tonight on the pod, boys. This one from Nicaragua.
**Senator:** Ha! Another, as if we do so many 60 ring gauge cigars.
**Gizmo:** We did the Rocky Patel 6060 very recently with this is another one. I thought that was an appropriate way to open. This one is the My Father MF The Judge in Gran Robusto.
It's a 60 ring gauge cigar. Buy five inches long. And boys, this that we have in our hand is the 10 cigar aficionado cigar of the year.
**Poobah:** What's up, chef? How are you? This is exciting. I didn't say hi to
**Chef Ricky:** him before. Hi. How are you doing? I'm good. So
**Gizmo:** I will say I'm a little nervous about the cigar tonight. I'm expecting this.
A little? To pack a punch. Yeah. I am expecting it to, I don't love the 60 ring gauge. Of course. We know that.
**Bam Bam:** Don't love the foot band.
**Gizmo:** And I don't love the foot band, but we can get over that.
**Pagoda:** So you don't like strong cigars. You don't like big ring [00:02:00] gauges. What else?
**Gizmo:** We can keep going.
**Senator:** I just don't know why the, the, this particular Vitola, whatever the dimensions of this cigar is, it just looks terrible.
It doesn't look good. It's like so short and stubby, like whatever that Rocky was. We did the 60 ring gauge. It looked like a decent, like a nice looking cigar. I mean, the band was absurd that covered it, but the cigar itself was like, well proportioned. This is too short and fat. I think that had an inch on this.
It had
**Rooster:** another inch. I think it was 65. This would be better with another half an inch.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. You know, the placement of the bands don't help either. I mean, the placement of the bands are right on center. Some need it, some don't.
**Bam Bam:** You have to admit the rapper is pretty nice rapper. There's a little glistening to it.
It's. Looks like it's nicely made. I bet it's gonna be good. You got a different cigar. I, I wouldn't call it that. I have not a single vein on this thing.
**Gizmo:** I will say, Ricky said about the, the band placement on this. It's, it's an odd, it's centered in the cigar.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. Yeah. I, I think that adds to the awkwardness of, of the, the [00:03:00] cigar.
The look of the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Is it, is it joined right at that point, point there at the center? No, they're not connected. No, they're just sitting right next to each other. That's ridiculous. It took it off.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, well, let's cut this thing. See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. I am going to take a very little bit off.
**Rooster:** Yeah, it looks much better with the second band off, by the way. Nice
**Bam Bam:** cold draw. Very nice. Cold draw is very flavorful. Don't laugh. Very flavorful. I'm getting banana. Mm hmm. That's actually quite good. Yeah, banana is on its spot. Actually,
**Senator:** that's pretty, that's pretty accurate, Bam. Crazy. And what did you do to your taste buds?
How, every time, your callouts are spot on every time. This is
**Bam Bam:** actually banana like. To the listener, the taste buds have always been on. Just overly criticized by my esteemed colleagues.
**Senator:** The cold draw. I can't wait for us to do a mashup of like, Bam, two years ago, his flavor notes
**Bam Bam:** and right now, [00:04:00] I'm ready for that,
**Rooster:** but there's a whole process you do, right?
Maybe you don't smoke a cigar like doing the whole day. I
**Bam Bam:** don't,
**Rooster:** you don't eat a meal like within like the last two hours.
**Bam Bam:** I gotta, I mean, I'm sorry, prior to recording, we had a brief conversation about this. I don't believe in smoking a cigar before the recording, having a drink before the recording. I eat well before the recording, take a nap, no cookies, no cookies at all.
**Senator:** I hate to be the one to hold someone accountable, but you've definitely drank before recording. Sometimes.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. But I honestly, I'd rather not
**Senator:** pretend Mother Teresa. I know, but I'd rather not do that.
**Bam Bam:** I would rather not do that before recording. That's me. I feel like it'll be a pure. Review.
**Pagoda:** I, I think Chef Ricky had already ordered way lighting
**Bam Bam:** Oh,
**Pagoda:** he
**Bam Bam:** ate
**Pagoda:** no patience. He like, I want some banana too.
**Chef Ricky:** You guys are fucking talking. Want some banana too?
**Poobah:** I'm, I mean, I'm in lockstep with bam. I've never drank before recording. Oh.
**Gizmo:** Alright boys, let's like this thing, the, my [00:05:00] father mf the judge. In Gran Robusto, the Cigar Aficionado Cigar of the Year for 2024 again.
It's a 60 ring gauge. By five inch long cigar out of Nicaragua. These come in boxes of 23 and the price is 10 a cigar ish online. Good thing I filled the lighter before this. Yeah, this is going to take
**Bam Bam:** some fuel for sure. A single point flame on this is a little tough.
**Senator:** Can you imagine lighting this with a soft flame?
I mean, it'd take you two hours. Forget it. Christ. Or a match. Or a match.
**Gizmo:** Not bad on the light. What do you think? What are you getting? I'm getting like a mustiness. I'm getting a little espresso. I'm not getting any flavor note that's really ringing my bell right now. On the light, actually, I'm not thrilled at this exact [00:06:00] moment. I'm gonna be very patient, though. I'm not gonna say anything bad.
I'm getting espresso
**Senator:** and dirt. Yeah. Like, there's literal, like, dirt.
**Gizmo:** Soil of the earth. Mineral. Minerality.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's not, I'm not loving it on the light.
**Senator:** It should be named The Gardener, not The Judge. The Gardener. It's full flavored.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You're not getting any pepper at all?
**Chef Ricky:** I'm
**Gizmo:** getting a little pepper on the retrohale, no doubt about that. On the regular draw, not so far. It
**Chef Ricky:** feels nicotine heavy to me off the bat.
Lots of pepper, good amount of earthiness. I don't want to say dirt, but there's definitely earthy, earthy tones there. Really deep, heavy, earthy tones. Earthy minerality. It's not, you know, it is really, it's, it's Really robust right now, but I'm not necessarily enjoying it because of the spice. You ain't getting a lot of spice?
I'm getting a good amount of spice here. I'm getting it now. I'm hoping the spice dissipates a little bit so I can get some of the other flavors. [00:07:00] Yeah, I'm
**Bam Bam:** not getting much.
**Poobah:** Yeah, me neither. I haven't gotten much spice. Just a touch. My hypothesis is that because you have to get this lit, you have to, you have to use a torch almost and It may settle in and I think it will probably change.
**Bam Bam:** I think a purge is absolutely needed for this once you like.
**Senator:** Oh
**Poobah:** yeah.
**Senator:** The burn line actually smells better than the cigar tastes and flavor.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah. Very fragrant. That's actually very nice.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** It's almost chocolatey.
**Senator:** Agreed. Also some baking spice at the burn line. It's actually very nice. I'll say this though.
I don't, I don't, to me this is not a very full cigar. I think it's medium full to start. I'm also not getting a ton of nicotine. For me the delivery's been fairly smooth. I just don't love the flavor profile yet, but I'm not having any complaints as far as strength. I
**Rooster:** think it's the pepper that you get on the light makes it feel like it's,
**Bam Bam:** you know,
**Rooster:** very rich and very, uh, If
**Bam Bam:** [00:08:00] you retrohale, you'll capture a lot of pepper, and they're not, it's not very good at the moment.
**Gizmo:** I just took a second cut, because I took very little off at the beginning, almost like a punch, you know, size cut. This time I took a more normal cut, so I'm gonna try that. Maybe, you know, pulling it too hard through that smaller cut would be a problem. It's a very,
**Pagoda:** very open draw for me, meaning it's very Same here.
It's very velvety, smoky. This is right up your
**Bam Bam:** power alley, we're going to know.
**Pagoda:** Let's see how it develops. Yeah,
**Poobah:** I think it'll calm, it'll calm down after the light and settle in. Is this
**Gizmo:** a Puro? It is not a Puro. So the filler has three different kinds of tobacco from three different farms in Nicaragua.
The binder is, Ricky? Corojo, Criollo. Yes, and the wrapper is Ecuadorian Sumatran. Ro Ricky, what was the, uh, the rapper? .
**Chef Ricky:** The,
**Gizmo:** I can't,
**Chef Ricky:** was it? No. Ecuadorian
**Gizmo:** Sumatra Ro. So this is the [00:09:00] fourth cigar from the Don Papin Garcia family. The ma. Father cigar company. We did the judge very early on, on episode 23, the Toro Fino.
We also did the number four Lancero on episode 62, and we did the Don Pippin Garcia, blue Lancero to answer. I was there. Sorry, boys on episode 73. So let's talk about the, my father's cigar company and Jose Pippin Garcia, Don. Pepin Garcia was born in Cuba in the 1950s, and he was immediately thrust into tobacco.
So after rolling his first cigar at the age of 11, he ignited a lifelong passion for tobacco and became a brilliant roller in Cuba. He was, he was born in Via Clara. Which is a very, very small town in Cuba, I guess, less than a thousand people based on what I heard, uh, an interview I watched with his daughter over decades in Cuba, he became a world renowned master roller earning accolades for his blending and rolling skills.
After reaching the pinnacle of his craft in [00:10:00] Cuba, Pippin sought even greater opportunities, of course, and eventually left the Island in 2001 to pursue his dreams. In 2002, he emigrated from Nicaragua. So he went from Cuba. To Nicaragua. And then a few months later in 2002, he went to the United States and then started his little Havana factory called El Rey de los Habanos in 2003, with the help of his son, Jaime Garcia and his daughter, Yanni Garcia, the factory quickly gained recognition for its expertly crafted cigars.
And of course, Pepin's blends received critical acclaim. Secretly, his son, Jaime started blending cigars in 2008. And presented a cigar. He was very happy with to his father. And in 2009, they launched my father's cigars S a named after the father, of course, and celebrating Don Pippin Garcia's legacy as a brilliant cigar roller.
So Jaime Garcia's first blend again was created as a tribute to his father in [00:11:00] 2008, when they started their own company and allowed the family to expand production work closely with Nicaraguan tobaccos. And achieve full control over the growing of their tobacco and manufacturing processes. They now have a state of the art factory in Esteli, Nicaragua.
My father, the judge M F the judge was launched in 2016 as a full bodied flavorful addition to the portfolio. The name reflects the imposing size and strength of all the cigars. And we'll talk about the line in a second, as well as a tribute to a close family friend who was a judge. Again, Ecuadorian Sumatra on the rapper.
Nicaraguan Corojo and Criollo on the binder and the filler has three premium Nicaraguan tobaccos from three different farms, Nicaragua. And that's the idea here, boys. Cool story. And they have, when I tell you a ton of cigars in the line, I mean, it's pretty wild. They have a bunch of different, my father offerings.
They have a bunch of Don Pepin Garcia [00:12:00] offerings. They have a brand called Fonseca. Well, very similar to, you know, similar name to the brand in Cuba, Florida, Las Antillas, of course, uh, Jaime Garcia has a few lines, uh, and El Centurion. So they have a lot of cigars. And then of course, it's important to note that Pete Johnson of Tatuaje cigars is married to Yanni Garcia and all of the Tatuaje cigars are made at the My Father Factory in Esteli.
So that's kind of the, uh, Long
**Bam Bam:** and short of the family history of the Garcias. Very nice. So that, um, the two Lanceros you mentioned, the My Father Lancero and the Don Pepin Lancero, both I think are delicious. Yeah, they were both good. Yeah. The Don Pepin Lancero. The
**Rooster:** blue
**Bam Bam:** label. Yes. Right. So I've been dipping it.
We bought a, I bought a box soon after that pod. A few of you may have as well. They are really, really good right now. They've been just getting better and better.
**Gizmo:** I mean, that was probably two years ago, that episode.
**Bam Bam:** They're very nice. Haven't had the My [00:13:00] Father Lancero in forever, but definitely worth a try if you have, I'll bring, you know, I'll bring a box in.
You know, I remember enjoying the number four for sure. That was good. Yeah, that was very good.
**Senator:** For me, the number four was good. But then I think Rooster was the first to try the Don Pepin Lancero. As soon as I had that, I think that's definitely better. It is better. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** So what are you guys thinking of this cigar right now?
So I was struggling a little bit in the beginning. I just couldn't get the tickle out of my throat. It was, you know, my first initial draws were, were really peppery. Uh, and now I'm getting more of what Senator's talking about, what all of you guys have been talking about. The draw itself has mellowed out, but the retrohale remains peppery.
Um, I'm starting to get a little bit of dried fruit, but it doesn't last very long. It just kind of peaks in and then it mellows out and it dries out quite a bit, uh, pretty quickly. I get, yeah, so I'm, I'm hoping that as we get deeper into the, the, into the cigar, that that dried fruit develops and everything just kind of [00:14:00] creams out right now, things feel a little sharp, but at the same time, I think
**Poobah:** you're reading my mind.
Like I just, I want, I want it to develop into a more, um, creamy. Territory.
**Rooster:** I think it's kind of like a chocolate covered raisin almost right now. Maybe.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. A little chocolate. But there are a little touches of sharpness, like Chef mentioned, you get a little bit of that. Yeah. And I'm not enjoying it.
Honestly. It doesn't bother me, but it's there.
**Senator:** I don't know. I'm having a different experience. I think the sharpness I was getting up front and like the earth notes were really pronounced and like, uh, Sharper aggressive way, not like a mellow kind of smooth delivery of some of those earthy, more mineral forward notes for me though.
Now it's gotten sweeter. Those earthy notes have dissipated a bit. Um, so the experience as far as flavor for me right now is much [00:15:00] better. Um, my only complaint is construction wise, I've watched every single person, almost every one of you, has had to touch up with their cigar. That's number one. Number two, the ash on this is very oddly flaky.
Like, I can see where my ash is definitely going to crumble and fall off, and there's no chance that this holds even for a full inch. So construction wise, I'm not impressed. But you have the brightest ash in the room. I do. And I'm trying to smoke this as Slowly and effortlessly as possible to try to let it burn cooler.
Cause I'm worried, like, I think some of the guys that were getting like really spicy notes off the bat, I think because of how much we needed to toast and heat this cigar, I think the ones that got more spice, it was probably hot, burning hotter than others. So I've just tried to be really patient knowing that this could heat aggressively, especially with this ring gauge.
**Bam Bam:** That's why I've been going slow. [00:16:00] That's also a good point. I think I've been smoking a little too quickly.
**Gizmo:** I'm having difficulty like coming up with positives right now. , you know, like I'm really struggling with that
**Bam Bam:** rooster.
**Gizmo:** Tone off his mic, like you guys, like he said, chocolate covered raisins. Like I would die to have chocolate covered raisins right now.
I'm getting that, honestly, I'm like, this isn't even in that ballpark. Yeah, it's the, there's a dry, is there a dryness to it? Yeah, there is. Yeah. My mouth is dry. Yeah, I think the sharpness is spot on. Yeah. It's dry. It's not peppery for me right now, except for I retro. There's a little bit of that.
**Senator:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I am.
I'm not getting
**Poobah:** enough dessert or cocoa or like, or creamy or anything. It's a little bit on the, on the tangy side.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting, you know, as you blow out your smoke, the sharpness lingers, but as you take in your draw, that's when you get some of the dried fruit, but it just disappears almost instantly and it's replaced by sharpness in your mouth.[00:17:00]
**Rooster:** I think the initial sharpness has kind of dissipated. It's not as pronounced as it was in the beginning.
**Senator:** Yeah, and the funny thing is, you know, Bam mentioned that the ash on mine is fairly, is pretty white. It's the brightest in the room. Rooster's too. I can't see. And I feel like me and him are smoking the same cigar, where like, Probably.
The notes he's getting, I'm getting.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. I mean,
**Senator:** Chef's is definitely darker, Bam's is darker, Poobah's is darker. And Pagoda's is, well, Pagoda's is actually kind of white.
**Gizmo:** The top of mine is almost black. Yeah. That's strange.
**Senator:** That's strange.
**Gizmo:** And then it's coming into, I don't know what's going on here. I don't know.
It's heating. Like, I feel like I'm very perturbed. I'm very perturbed right now. I I'm so frustrated. We
**Senator:** would have never expected this with a 60 ring gauge. I feel like it has nothing to do with the ring gauge. It's
**Poobah:** not the combustion. It has everything to do with the flavor. No, it's interesting. You say that the combustion is not.
That great. And you'd want more [00:18:00] smooth velvety smoke that kind of coats your mouth and you're not getting that.
**Gizmo:** Dude. Think of, we, we did that. LaFlorida, Cono, LA heaters with short filler from Cuba. The combustion on that thing was five X. The output on this.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. That's true. I think that's also a product of us slowing our smoke down.
I mean, we're not, no, no,
**Senator:** I will say, I mean, I took a big draw intentionally. I hadn't even thought really about the combustion, but I do agree for this ring gauge, it should be a chimney. It's very underwhelming. The combustion. I mean, I smoked yesterday, a little. short Corona Davidoff Maduro. I mean, that's a tiny ring gauge cigar.
You probably couldn't see the guy next to that put out double, if not triple the smoke output as this 60 ring gauge. So that's, it's very odd at this size
**Poobah:** and now mine's messing up. I mean, here's a question. It's messing up.
**Bam Bam:** Um, how long have you
**Gizmo:** had
**Bam Bam:** these?
**Gizmo:** I've had these. So the cigar aficionado thing was published, uh, the middle of December.
I bought them the [00:19:00] following day for review. Okay. I got them about three days later, so I've had them before Christmas. I left them out for probably two days. I threw them in my tower at the top. And then I left them out during the day today. So I've had them probably coming up on A month.
**Bam Bam:** They were very wet when I got them.
They seemed to touch soft before we started. Just a touch. Yeah, but at
**Poobah:** this ring gauge, I don't know, man. The ring gauge is tough. It should be, it should be balling up more. You know,
**Chef Ricky:** it's just not a flavor profile. Like I'm back to sharp now. It's all, it's, I'm getting right back to those sharp notes that it, they're just like really acidic and almost and it's resulting in a very dry.
Sort of aft, uh, effect in the mouth, it's, it's really not pleasant and it's a shame cause for a few puffs there, I was starting to get some, I was starting to get some dried fruit and, and light creaminess and I was hoping that's what we were set, [00:20:00] settling into. So maybe it's still going to happen, but yeah, right now it's kind of all over the place.
**Rooster:** So how much of the cigar do you think Cigar Aficionado guys actually smoked? I think they stopped. To get the number one cigar of the year waiting on them. I mean,
**Gizmo:** we're 20, 20 minutes in, they probably finished about 10 minutes ago.
**Poobah:** I can't, but I can't believe this is number one. I mean, even let's just say it wasn't conditioned.
Let's assume it wasn't conditioned optimally. First of all, that's not true because just by feeling it, it's, it's not a condition issue. It's a, it's, it's a blend issue. This, this is not the blend here is odd and I'm kind of not surprised because I've ditched more judges than I've finished in my life. So maybe there's a [00:21:00] palette out there that this is for, but it's definitely not for mine.
Oh, people love this entire line. I know.
**Bam Bam:** People love my palette. They do. Yeah, they do.
**Gizmo:** Now, we can't, I don't want to put my father in the same category as M. F. the Judge. Because that Lancero is not the judge. That is my father, a separate line of this. That was a great cigar. Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** it was. The
**Gizmo:** Don Pepin Garcia.
**Bam Bam:** Delicious.
**Gizmo:** Blue line. Great cigar. Though, uh, I've heard, I haven't had one, the, uh, La Fleur de la Cigare. I've heard that cigar is very, very good. Right. Okay. I've even heard the Le Peugeot 1922 is very good. I think this specific line, which is now the second we're smoking, is just very, like, Left of center, I, I think for any of our palettes, for mine especially, I mean, I mean, this is just There's nothing to it.
The finish is abrupt, short
**Poobah:** It's short for sure,
**Senator:** yeah.
**Rooster:** It is dry. Dry. It is. Yeah.
**Senator:** It's very dry. Like right now, I'm just getting [00:22:00] super, super dark. Bitter chocolate.
**Pagoda:** Yes. That's what I'm getting. I was about to say cocoa, which finishes in a
**Senator:** very
**Pagoda:** dry, short, abrupt way.
**Gizmo:** And I feel like I want to smack like, like the, my tongue and inside my mouth, like to say,
**Chef Ricky:** you wanted to smack the shit out of the blender.
**Gizmo:** We'll get there. I don't know. I don't want to make that decision yet.
**Bam Bam:** I'm going to change the direction a little bit. You're definitely spot on on that. Yeah. Oh, I think it's all accurate, but the retch, I just took a deep retrohale. I got no pepper. It was very, very smooth. And I, I caught a little bit of that banana that I got in a cold draw.
Just a little. It's very fleeting. The retro was pretty smooth for me. The retro is not
**Gizmo:** bad. I just did a retro. It's gotten better. Yeah, it's definitely better than the regular draw. But the
**Bam Bam:** regular draw is not, it's not, um, it's not what we like, but it does, it definitely captures your attention because it's got a pretty, pretty good punch.
Yeah. I'm surprised at the lack of smoke output. That's true. I'm with you on that. The moment the smoke comes out, it just evaporates.
**Chef Ricky:** It's like the flavor. [00:23:00]
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** It's like the flavor. And it's interesting because it's a, it's a large ring gauge. Great draw. I mean, the draw is, is incredible. And to me, that's all, that's a formula for great combustion.
And it's not what's happening.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, mine's not that bad. I think I'm getting reasonable smoke out, but, um, overall for me, I haven't experienced a harshness at all. Yeah. I did find a lot of earthiness and minerality between, and now I think I'm really getting that, the bitter cocoa, I don't know what, but it's very, um,
**Bam Bam:** These aren't bad things you're talking about, by the way.
No, no, also
**Pagoda:** for me, it's been reasonable. It hasn't been, like, is it something that, I'm ready to, you know, just, uh, ditch right now? No, it's not there. I want to give it some more time. I
**Chef Ricky:** mean, you know what's interesting is bitter chocolate could be super acidic. Yes. So, it's kind of That's the thing. I mean,
**Senator:** what's frustrating with this is I like dark chocolate.
I prefer dark chocolate to milk or any other type of chocolate. But this is so bitter. This is like 80%. Dry. Exactly. Versus
**Chef Ricky:** [00:24:00] 69. Exactly. You know. It's such an
**Senator:** extreme like dark chocolate that it's, it's too bitter and the finish is too dry as a result. And it's short. Yeah. The finish is
**Rooster:** very short and very dry.
Yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** I said that earlier, that's accurate. That's accurate. Yeah. This is, this is not a flavor profile that's in any of our wheelhouses. Yeah. What you talking about, buddy? Yeah, I'm just kidding. Maybe Pagoda.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about the line as we let the cigar settle in a little bit here. It was originally launched in 2016 with two sizes.
The box press Toro 56 by six, and the cigar we have in our hand, the grand rib busto box, pressed 60 by five. In 2017, they added a Toro feno, the 52 by six. That's the one we reviewed on episode 23 and in 2020. They released a Corona Gorda, which is not box pressed out of all the cigars. That's the only one that's not box pressed 46 by five and five eighths inches long.
[00:25:00] Again, the cigar that we have in our hand retails for around 12 bucks. We got them for 10, but the entire line is between 11 and 12. So as we said, This cigar one cigar of the year from cigar aficionado in 2024. It's the third time that my father has one cigar of the year in 2012. The floor de las Antillas Toro was awarded cigar of the year.
Got 96 points. The my father lay bijou 1922 torpedo box pressed in 2015, earned the cigar of the year title with a 97 point rating. And this year, the. MF, the judge ground reboost that we have in our hand was cigar of the year and scored a 98. That's incredible. You know,
**Poobah:** I don't think this is, it's hyperbolic to state that that's really actually not in line with, with anything rational I've ever heard in my life.
I mean, I just don't think you're going to say fraud, but I [00:26:00] mean, this is not a 98 point cigar. I mean, what is going on
**Chef Ricky:** here? I'm missing so much.
**Senator:** No, I mean, there's not been a single puff of this cigar that has approached anything near a 98 it's absurd. It hasn't approached a 90. This hasn't
**Rooster:** approached
**Senator:** a
**Rooster:** recommend for me at this point.
I mean, a Padron Exclusivo is a 98. 9 or, you know, almost a perfect course. Perfect smoke. I mean, the flavor out of that cigar is just. That's an everyday cigar that never changes. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Rooster:** I mean, this cigar has. Has issues. I mean, the combustion is not great and doesn't burn great. There's no, there's no smoke output is so little and the dry finish is just, you know, it's not
**Poobah:** enjoyable.
No, there's like, there's, there isn't a, like a viscosity to the smoke that, that kind of, that, that kind of feeling that you get where it coats your mouth and it coats the palate, there's nothing. Or some [00:27:00] unique flavor profile to this. There's it's just not where it's, it's, it's, it's really not that good. I think, I mean, well,
**Bam Bam:** it's kind of, hopefully we can wash some, some of this down.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Let's do that boys. Let's move on now from this for a little bit. Let's move into our pairing tonight. We have the will it pot still bourbon from Kentucky.
**Bam Bam:** Salud. Cheers, boys. Cheers. I need the ice,
**Pagoda:** please. Now, before you take
**Bam Bam:** a sip, put your nose deep into the glass.
**Pagoda:** Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** Honestly, the aroma is deep vanilla.
Yeah. It's beautiful on the nose. A hundred percent.
**Chef Ricky:** Yeah. This is a very rich. It's interesting because it's spicy yet sweet, and it could almost be too sweet or too spicy, but it somehow happens, manages to come in the center.
**Bam Bam:** He's not happy. Too hot for you?
**Poobah:** Well,
**Bam Bam:** he doesn't have any ice.
**Gizmo:** No, I'm good. I'm fine.
It's not too hot. It's just not great.
**Chef Ricky:** I like it. It's [00:28:00] butterscotchy for me. Yes, I
**Bam Bam:** don't have a chip of ice in my glass and I don't think it's that bad.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, I don't think it needs ice.
**Bam Bam:** I don't. I agree. What? Say that again, Pagoda? That I don't think it needs ice.
**Gizmo:** That's saying a lot.
**Bam Bam:** That is.
**Gizmo:** No, I mean, it's not bad, but it's not great.
I mean, it is only a 44 bottle. We do have the 1. 75, which retails for a hundred bucks. We'll talk about this insane bottle we have in front of us, but the seven 50 milliliter bottle is only 44 and is pretty accessible. Like you, you can get it at any total wine right now. You know, it's not one of those ones that's, that's scarce.
So
**Pagoda:** that's a lot of points.
**Senator:** So I, I'm with Giz on the bourbon, uh, my problem with the bourbon, this to me is as basic a bourbon as I've had in a long time. I completely
**Gizmo:** agree.
**Senator:** This just tastes like, like, uh, this reminds me of actually like a less satisfying version of whatever the dirt cheap, like four roses is.
[00:29:00] That's what it is. It's like a yellow label. It's like maybe 30 bucks. Yep. And that's just like a standard, like, Cheap tailgate bourbon or like a mixing bourbon, very straightforward, right? Like there's nothing interesting about it. It's like an emergency gas station bourbon. It's
**Gizmo:** like, I need to run to the gas station and buy bourbon.
That's what they have. Oh, and
**Senator:** that's how, like, I'm not saying like, but this is, I hate this or it's bad. It's not, it's just very, there's nothing distinctive about this. Like the nose to me, this is everything. I've remembered bourbon, like. In my earlier years, trying bourbon, like this is exactly the nose you would typically get.
Like it doesn't have that character like a Weller special reserve or. Um, those
**Bam Bam:** are higher, much higher end. That's
**Senator:** still, I mean, Weller
**Gizmo:** Special Reserve is like, what, a 50 bottle?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Is that right? Well,
**Gizmo:** on, on primary market. On the secondary, it's ridiculous. But yes, primary, it might even be less than that, Senator.
It might be in the 30s. Yeah. If you find it in Florida in a store, it might be 30 bucks.
**Bam Bam:** You know, I think for the [00:30:00] guy or girl that likes a very simple, straightforward bourbon, this'll kind of hit the mark for them. Yeah. The butterscotch is accurate. I think there's vanilla there.
**Senator:** I actually, now to your point, you need to take several sips of this to You do.
I do. Appreciate the flavor more because I didn't get the butterscotch off the bat. And now I'm definitely getting it. So I, I, I see where some of the other guys are coming from. I think now I'm kind of somewhere in the middle. I don't know that I feel as strongly as giz. I'm not as enthusiastic.
**Bam Bam:** Uh, we've got a man down for the listener.
**Senator:** Poobah just lit a Corona's Claro.
**Poobah:** I didn't even notice that complete
**Senator:** opposite spectrum of a cigar.
I'm sure Marvin Shank did the same thing when he was smoking the cigar. Oh yeah. As he was
**Bam Bam:** giving it a 98.
**Pagoda:** Do you think they rated the wrong cigar?[00:31:00]
**Gizmo:** So boys, Willett Bourbon, we'll go through their history. This is obviously the first time we're doing Willett on the podcast. A lot of history here. It was established in 1936 in Bardstown, Kentucky by a guy named Thompson Willett. It's been a family run business ever since. Spanning several generations, of course, initially it was focused on producing bourbon and rye whiskey under the Willett label, and then it expanded to other brands.
They built their first warehouse in 1937. And that's interesting because they still use that warehouse to store barrels today in 2025. Pretty cool. Another couple of notes here, the company ceased operations in the late 1980s due to market conditions. I guess they were really struggling. Reopened in the 1990s, focusing on small batch and single barrel offerings.
They then gained a reputation in the 90s and the early 2000s for a high quality source whiskey before they transitioned to in house production. The pot still reserved that we're drinking tonight is released as a single [00:32:00] barrel bourbon and then was later changed to a small batch bourbon. It's distilled and aged at the Willett Distillery using their copper pot still.
The iconic Willett Pot Still bottle is an exact replica of the patented Willett Pot Still built by Vendome Copper and Brass. So that bottle that we're looking at, and I encourage the listener, whether you're drinking it or not, or even interested or not. Google well at pot still reserve and look at the bottle that we're looking at.
It is BAM as the resident, uh, descriptor of structure in the room. How would you describe that? It's a phallic symbol. It's very phallic. Oh yeah. I mean, I, I felt embarrassed actually walking in here with that. How are you holding it? Two hands. Correct. It's a, it's something. It's look like, it looks like something you'd see in the lab.
That's true. That's true. Okay. What do they call those? Oh, Bunsen
**Bam Bam:** burner,
**Gizmo:** [00:33:00] a beaker, I didn't do too well in chemistry.
**Chef Ricky:** Would you say that's a good bottle for the cantering, a spirit or a wine? Maybe. With the, with the shade. I don't love
**Senator:** how narrow the neck of the bottle is. I think it's actually very hard to decant there pour as well.
**Chef Ricky:** You definitely need a funnel to get something in there. Yeah. No, and pouring it it sounds like. Uh, what's the, the Australian, the dig you do? Is that the Australians Little Look .
**Gizmo:** We're hitting all the notes tonight.
**Poobah:** sounds like you're, like, you're pouring, like
**Gizmo:** Uba said, you're pouring gasoline into your generator.
Yeah, yeah. You know when your power goes out. So let's talk about the mash bill on this boys. It's 65 percent corn, 20 percent wheat, and 15
**Senator:** percent barley. I just want to say on the bottle, a big pet peeve of mine, I'm, I just, I say this in hopes that any liquor manufacturer thinks twice before they make some of these things.
I hate when there is [00:34:00] no thought given to how this is going to practically fit into someone's liquor cabinet. Or a cigar locker or a liquor locker at some member club that they're at, like.
**Chef Ricky:** Or even if you're trying to sell to wholesale clients, how is this going to fit on someone's bar shelf? Right. Like, where is it going to go?
Uh, you know, it's, it's pretty large and yeah.
**Senator:** It's like, they're trying to make a statement, I get it. It's something you would immediately say, Whoa, what's that?
**Chef Ricky:** True.
**Senator:** But you practically can't put this anywhere. I mean, it's just silly.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it's, it's differentiating, but. But not practical. Well, 7 Eleven has big shelves.
**Chef Ricky:** I was just gonna say, I'm sure Ben has some ideas. But
**Poobah:** I mean, it's not that bad, ladies and gentlemen. Wild turkey's probably close to 40 bucks, you know? Every bourbon's
**Gizmo:** close to 40 bucks. It's just about the secondary that gets crazy. So we're talking about this copper pot still. What's interesting is, you know, this is obviously a big part of their history.
[00:35:00] In 2015, Willett family estate rye whiskey was the first whiskey distilled on the Willett copper pot still. In 2016, the first bourbon distilled on the Willett copper pot still. The Willett family estate bourbon was released. And then finally, in the same year, 2016, they have another line called Old Bardstown, 90 proof, and Old Bardstown bottled in bond, bourbon based on other historic family labels.
So, they have a bunch of other brands as well, but Willett is their core, and uh, That's, uh, that's the story on Will It Boys. I don't even want to ask how everybody's feeling about the cigar.
**Chef Ricky:** It's, uh, it's, you know, this, even in going from the bourbon to the cigar, the cigar just washes out any flavor of the bourbon.
Like, it can't even pair right with anything. Or with what we're drinking. It's, um, it's complicated. You know, [00:36:00] I was, I
**Gizmo:** was really coming into this episode tonight. We had talked recently. On and off pod about how the MF, the judge, the Toro Fino, I think is the one that we did on episode 23, we thought didn't get a fair shake because we had just purchased it same day at a retailer didn't perform well.
So I was coming in tonight. Cigar of the year, number one, 98 points at CA, 10 cigar. I was ready to say, you know what? We did get it wrong. Like this is different. And it's not, you know, it's just not, we were,
**Rooster:** we were hopeful. I was very hopeful. Here's a question.
**Gizmo:** I just want the listener to know the reason why I'm saying this, I want the listener to know that I did not walk in this room tonight pessimistic.
I actually walked in. Optimistic.
**Bam Bam:** Same, same. And I am very disappointed. I think we all, we all were. Yeah. I'm very disappointed. But here's a question. If you were to, if you have a box of these and you bring it, the humidity down to a [00:37:00] very low point. Low 60s, high 50s for a while. It wouldn't change the flavor.
No, but it could change the experience. It could eliminate some harshness, possibly make it a bit smoother. I don't know. I'm just, it's just a question. But on A New World, dude, I've had him for a month.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, I know. And I was very aggressive and, and particular about trying to give us the best experience tonight as far as humidity goes.
Just a
**Bam Bam:** question, yeah.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, no, I understand your question, but I'm saying, I'm agreeing with you, like, I did, I thought I did that. Right,
**Bam Bam:** right.
**Gizmo:** To put us in the best position to have a great cigar too.
**Rooster:** Yeah, I mean the size of the cigar to go through this with this kind of, these kind of flavor notes and the dry finish.
It's a little brutal. It's brutal. A little bit. Yeah. So even if you kind of lowered the humidity and stuff, it's not going to help the flavor. It's going to maybe help it. You never know. Yeah. Yeah.
**Chef Ricky:** I'm just getting barn floor right now.
**Poobah:** No horsefoot though, huh? It's that you're getting, you're getting a, you're getting a paddock at Belmont.[00:38:00]
**Senator:** Senator, what are you getting? Uh, I'm, I'm still getting very, very dark chocolate. I do get some barnyard. So what chef is saying, I think is spot on. I'm not getting a whole lot more. It's really just super dark, bitter chocolate in barnyard. That's it.
**Chef Ricky:** You know, we we've been on such a run that I was coming into tonight thinking watch this cigar score high and Everybody's gonna question our ratings because I was hoping it was going to
**Bam Bam:** so giz are you retroing at all?
Yes, and that's not that bad. It's better than it is better There's not a lot of smoke to retro. No, but it comes through pretty smooth and not too bad
**Senator:** I honestly don't understand how anyone could love this cigar I agree. Like there are plenty of cigars that we've reviewed where any of us has sat there and said, maybe this is not for me, but I can see why someone would love this cigar.[00:39:00]
I cannot see why anyone would love this cigar. I truly can't.
**Rooster:** It's, it's, it's hard to smoke this.
**Senator:** It's
**Rooster:** hard to, it's hard to continue.
**Poobah:** It's hard to continue. Well, it's hard to continue, which is why I stopped smoking. Oh yeah. I mean, and I, I think on the podcast, I've maybe dropped what? Two, three cigars. 23. I think a
**Bam Bam:** few more than two or three.
Two, three, 23.
**Senator:** I'm not big of a bricklayer. Bricklayer.
**Bam Bam:** I like that.
**Senator:** I'm not big of
**Poobah:** a bricklayer. I don't think I'm that big of a bricklayer. It's more than two or three. Let's just, it may be more, more than two or three, but it's not more than 10. I mean, like this is a real, this is a real brick. I mean, like, when you walk around the fraternity house the next day, and you're picking up beer cans and they're half full and you're like, who's the bricklayer?
That's, that's, that's me [00:40:00] tonight. I'm the bricklayer. I'm the bricklayer. Well, I will say this and I dropped it because there was no point in moving forward. There was
**Gizmo:** no point.
**Senator:** Zero fucking point.
**Gizmo:** Well, I'm, I'm going to retain hope. As we continue on here, there's no, and, and, and hopefully give the, our listeners a complete assessment of this because I cannot believe smoking this cigar that cigar aficionado smoked is from beginning to end and gave it in 98.
I just do not believe
**Bam Bam:** that. I'm impressed with the ash on that thing right
**Gizmo:** now. Yeah. Yeah. About an inch and a half here. So impressive. It'll be all over my iPad in a second.
**Senator:** The thing that's just the most shocking for me, 98. We, we've disagreed with Cigar Aficionado on their bullshit cigar of the year many times.
Sometimes they actually pick a respectable cigar. I've never smoked. And I think almost every year for at least the last 10, if not 15 years, I've tried always their number one stick. It's just, it's a fun curiosity, right? To see what they saw in that cigar. There's not one of them I've ever smoked that I would [00:41:00] say is like hard to smoke, like rooster said, or like unsmokable, like this, I would not give this to my worst enemy.
I don't know how this could possibly. Be even in the top 25 let alone number one
**Gizmo:** and I just think about like I said earlier how many other cigars let's say Let's say they elected that this year. My father was getting cigar of the year. That's what they decided Why this cigar?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah You're telling me out of
**Gizmo:** all those lines I named before which there might be 40.
This is the one They
**Bam Bam:** did get it right one year.
**Senator:** The room just went completely silent.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, and which year was
**Poobah:** that?
**Bam Bam:** They got, they ranked up in two. Well, there's more
**Gizmo:** than that.
**Poobah:** I thought you meant they got the judge right one year. No, no.
**Bam Bam:** I'm just saying they got it right with that up and
**Gizmo:** they've given Padron some of the, you know, some of the cigars they've done.
Yeah. I mean, EP Korea, I mean we did the pledge prequel that they gave number one, we didn't love it, but [00:42:00] then that caused us to go a little further into the line and we found a couple of videos that we absolutely love. It's
**Poobah:** like once every 10 years, but it's, it's very problematic for them to continue to give consistent, Number one ratings to the same certain, well, to traditional Cuban Puros, because they're blended in the same spirit.
They're blended in the same way where you have new world cigars that are experimenting with different blends. They're, they're experimenting with different binder, different wrapper. So they're doing all these kinds of new and different things and trying to innovate, which is great. And they're successful in that way.
Often. You know, I, I just think it's hard for CA because of the advertising, which we've talked about the marketing aspect that in the commercial, you know, aspect of, of, of cigar aficionado to continue to kind of prop up, [00:43:00] you know, number one, number two, number three, number four cigars that don't advertise in the book.
Do you know what I mean? So like, it's just becomes like a. A problem. It's an issue. No, but the
**Pagoda:** audience is smoking New World. Primarily, yes.
**Gizmo:** Primarily, yeah, they are. But the other point that I, I, that I want to piggyback on here from you is think about how many of the cigars that we've done with Ecuadorian Sumatran rappers.
**Pagoda:** I love those rappers. About the other tobacco
**Gizmo:** that we talked about in this cigar, the Corojo, the Criollo. I mean, So many of the cigars that we love have these tobaccos in them in the exact same spot on the wrapper, on the binder. You know, I don't know what some of the filler is, you know, maybe that's some of the issue here, but it's, you know, We've had this tobacco before.
It's the blend. It's the blend. How much is this cigar? 10 bucks.
**Senator:** This is
**Bam Bam:** absurd. Well, at least you're not paying a lot for it. [00:44:00]
**Gizmo:** I am. I am shocked at how this is going right now. I can't even believe it. I can't even believe it.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah,
**Poobah:** I can because every judge I've ever smoked, I've thrown out the window on my pickup.
I think you're being judgmental. Well, I said it coming into the episode and I was optimistic about this. I was like, okay, well, maybe. It's if it's 98 points, I mean, it's going to have, it's gotta have some redeeming qualities. Like, like, it's going to have like, like league and nine smoke output. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah. It's going to have like, the room's going to be filled with blue smoke and you're like, okay, maybe this isn't my jam, but like, I can see how there's merit in this, in this cigar. Like, which is just, wow. What a cloud of. I'm a chimney right now. It's a 60 ring gauge cigar. That's, that's putting off smoke, like my Cronus Claros, which I'm smoking right now.
Cause I ditched the other one. It's, it's, I can't, [00:45:00] I can't do it. I'll tell you my smoke output has been
**Pagoda:** pretty good. And I think I also cut like a V cut on this.
**Gizmo:** I took a second cut. I got pretty flat on my second cut on purpose. Take
**Senator:** a draw. I just got to see this.
**Poobah:** It's not that much smoke.
**Senator:** That's nothing.
That's a, that's a, that's a, that's a draw.
**Poobah:** By the way, that was, that was a huge draw. Let me show you a draw. All right, let me show you a draw. And there was no smoke that came out of Pagoda's mouth. Zero.
**Gizmo:** Bam, got three times as much. Yeah, and that's still
**Bam Bam:** not enough for a 60 ring gauge. No, it isn't. It isn't really.
Not for this ring gauge.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move on to some listener email now. I'm a bit nervous.
**Pagoda:** We have some good ones tonight. I thought these guys were going to beat me up. Stage
**Gizmo:** fright. Oh my lord. The first one here is from Lizard John in Cleveland on FOH. He's responding to Am I wrong? You're always
**Pagoda:** right.
**Gizmo:** to our episode, our first episode of the year. [00:46:00] The Davidoff late hour in Robusto. He says, great episode at always. I meant to give you guys a friendly suggestion from last week. I was listening to the year in review and I must've missed it the first time around, but give me more Steve Saka. Talk about personality.
He has an incredible wealth of knowledge about tobacco and many years ago, stopped caring about what anyone thinks. He's such an engaging personality. A breath of fresh air. Not many of us get to a point in our career where we're afforded to do things on our terms. I tip my cap to him. I often hate, quote, year in review type formats for podcasts generally, but it was very clear you guys put effort into curating it, so it wasn't just a mishmash.
The amount of work you do for the fans doesn't go unnoticed, so thank you. Very nice. Very nice note from Lizard John in Cleveland. We like Lizzo Jones. That's the
**Senator:** same thing Pagoda said when he heard the year in review. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** And we love, we love Steve Saka. Mishmash. [00:47:00] We love him.
**Gizmo:** I can't wait to Steve, uh, see Steve Saka at PCA again this year.
I really, you know, we get so many comments on that interview. I mean, it's going on a year now almost since we saw him or it's coming up on it in April, but I mean, what a great conversation that was. I can't wait to see him again.
**Rooster:** He's an honest person.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. You know,
**Rooster:** speaks his mind.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. In the similar vein, we have a email from our friend, Lizard John from Boise.
He writes us all the time. Always a great email. Hi, Giz. I had a cigar suggestion for the lizards. The Dunbarton Tobacco Trust Stillwell Star Aromatic No. 22. Sokka's Stillwell Star line consists of five different blends that each contain Different pipe tobaccos. The 2022 issue was originally a limited holiday variant that became so popular.
He brought it back as a regular member of the lineup. The pipe tobaccos bring an interesting and divisive element [00:48:00] to the element, to the cigar. And I'd be interested to hear the lizard's reaction to it. Could I just give you a Senator's reaction? I missed it. I was reading. What are we doing here? What are we doing?
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Honestly, I don't even have words. Yeah. If I smoke any of those cigars, I'll probably get a stomach ache. Yeah, just the extreme aromatic notes you're getting. They'll be so powerful. It's
**Rooster:** so, it'll be like infused tobacco. We'll
**Bam Bam:** see,
**Senator:** I guess infuse tobacco. It'll be interesting because tobacco, it'll be fun.
Decipher. I mean, it's not a natural it. It's not natural. If that's the case. Pipe tobacco's infused with flavors. Yeah. I, I, that's not what we want. That's a hard, I don't even understand the decision. Oh man. I can't wait to ask Sokka about this. So we, uh, we do have two, he's going
**Bam Bam:** to flip you at a bird. Like I don't care what you think.
**Gizmo:** Actually, you know, it's funny. I think when we saw him, he was drinking Noah's mill bourbon, which is produced by Willett. They actually, will it actually make Noah's mill? I think Noah's
**Chef Ricky:** mill is much better in this stuff.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, definitely. So, uh, we do have two cigars from Saka coming up. We have the Oompa [00:49:00] Gogg bronze back, which I got the other day, uh, after we saw it being raved about online.
It was, it's a little cigar. It's a little Corona. So maybe we should do it on a short smoke special. We'll discuss that. And then we also have, that only comes
**Senator:** in one, but one
**Gizmo:** Vittola bronze back is a 48 by five. It's a little, it's like this big little Corona. Uh, and then we also have the sober Mesa brulee coming up in the first, I would say first quarter or first half of next year of this year.
I like that cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Never had
**Senator:** it. I wouldn't know. I had one, and I cannot explain this. This is the first box of cigars that has somehow literally disappeared from my house. It disappeared?
**Pagoda:** Oh, we know what Lil Will's up to.
**Senator:** He
**Pagoda:** had creme brulee.
**Gizmo:** Senator Junior's raiding the tower. Correct. I mean,
**Senator:** I know I bought the box because I sent a photo smoking one of them.
That's where I got it out of. I've searched my tower. I've searched the Tupperwares I have. Wow. I can't find it anywhere. Can I ask you a question? Have you checked Bam's tower? He was over. Can [00:50:00] I
**Gizmo:** ask you a question? How many cigars come in a box?
**Senator:** Thirteen, I think, right? Yeah, it's like a weird number. How many did
**Gizmo:** you smoke?
**Senator:** One or two.
**Gizmo:** You gave me eight for the podcast. It's in my tower. Oh, my God. That's where they are. Yep.
**Senator:** Just in my town. Okay. It's been good all along. I'm so glad that I brought this up because I have been Killing myself over this. Like I should have let him, I
**Gizmo:** should have let it go, but I
**Senator:** lose a whole box of cigars.
Yeah,
**Pagoda:** you should have. Yes. And you should have brought it to the podcast and said,
**Chef Ricky:** Hey, thank you, Senator. Thank you, Senator. At least they're going to good use. And then send Senator to Splitwise.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. Another one here. This one's from Lizard Z. He says, Giz, do you or the other guys ever retro hail the cold draw? Sounds like a strange thing to point out, but someone who was way more experienced of a cigar smoker than me, and I've been at it for 20 plus years, told me to do this a few [00:51:00] times before lighting the cigar.
And I noticed some different. Interesting flavor notes coming through that I have never noted before. Often more than just the typical dried fruit. Has anybody retro hailed the cold draw? I don't know if I've ever done that. I haven't,
**Bam Bam:** there hasn't been enough air movement in the cold draw for me to bring it back through my nose.
Kind of like the
**Senator:** cigar. I guess I'll try. He definitely does not
**Pagoda:** have post natal drug for sure.
**Senator:** This is so weird that you just said this. Um, two nights ago when I was at our lounge. Some, who was, someone I was sitting next to here was asking me what I was getting on the retrohale and was telling me what he was getting on the retrohale, and, sorry, sorry, asked me what I was getting on the cold draw, and then he said on the retrohale I'm getting, and I'm like, the cigar's not even lit, what do you mean the retrohale, and he was talking about how he always retrohales the cold draw, and that was the first person I've ever encountered in my life who said that.
It's so odd that this question just came up. I've never thought to do it. [00:52:00]
**Gizmo:** Yeah, same. You know, and, and I've had this conversation, I had this conversation with, uh, the cigar surgeon who's on the show, Developing Pallets, who we met at PCA, great guy. I've been friends with him for a few years, tasting panel with FOH.
He had an interesting theory, and I, I guess, You know, we've, we always talk about the cold draw, but the disconnect often between what you get on the cold draw and, and the wrapper and the aroma before the cigar is lit and how disconnected it often is from after you light the cigar, everything changes.
You know? So I'm curious if you bring in the retrohale to the cold draw. If it would provide a more accurate representation of what the cigar is going to be. No clue, but we'll try it. You know? So
**Senator:** I don't, the reason I don't buy that, it's, I mean look, for me the retrohale, sorry, for me the cold draw on most cigars is not actually indicative of what the cigar is going to smell like.
And that
**Gizmo:** was, that was uh, John's point. Especially
**Senator:** once it's lit and the heat's going through it, it changes. Right. I mean we got banana. [00:53:00] On the cold draw. There's not a single banana note when you actually light this cigar. No.
**Gizmo:** So he continues. Oh, and by the way, I've used kitty litter many, many times in my Tupperware.
Oh my Lord. For storage. With excellent results. I've easy, I've even consulted experts on this. And even though active humidification adding with a hum humidifier and taking away with bead silo or another method is going to be better kitty litter. Like you don't even want to say this exquisite cat is identical to other passive humidity products on the market, which cost about 10 times the amount of the same bag.
Cheers and keep up the great work. Lizard Z. All right,
**Senator:** consulting experts. He's consulted gizmo, correct? Yeah, I mean, https: otter. ai
**Rooster:** Proofs a point that Gizmo goes through the emails and picks the ones that he wants to talk. Correct. That's
**Pagoda:** lizard G I Z over here. Are you lizard G or Z? I am not
**Senator:** lizard. And at least now once [00:54:00] in for all, we can accept that.
Gizmo always says it's not kitty litter. It's silica. It's kitty litter. It's dry silica kitty litter. Correct.
**Gizmo:** So boys, I guess we're at the end of the first third here around the halfway. Halfway point first heard my father MF the judge in Grand Rab. Busto.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Just passed the halfway
**Gizmo:** point. What's
**Bam Bam:** everybody thinking?
Well, I did put it down, not intending to pick it up again, but, oh really? I didn't wanna light another cigar, so I kind of have to finish this.
**Senator:** I'm in the same boat. I got to a point where I was getting, I just kept saying, you know, it was the dark chocolate, it was the bitter dark chocolate and all that.
And then all of a sudden got, that's God now kind got extremely bitter and harsh. Yes. Yep. And, I mean, it's unsmokable for me. It is. My,
**Gizmo:** my combustion has dropped to a point that is so low, I even had to relight it. Yep. Uh, in between reading those emails, and I am, I'm just not getting anything pleasant. It's, it's bitter, it's harsh.
It's not [00:55:00] interesting.
**Rooster:** You almost don't want to relight it.
**Gizmo:** I'm not, I'm not, I'm not experienced with that at all. That's pretty much. I can't believe you're enjoying this. I'm
**Pagoda:** not, it's not that I'm enjoying it. It's really, it's really bitter. The, it's the bitter dark chocolate, which is bitter. It's really interesting that after having a sip of the bourbon, I think it just kind of really made it even a little more bitter.
Like it didn't really help the cigar that much. Um, But, but overall, I think, uh, the problem is also the short, dry finish is, uh, it's just not, it's just leaving a really, it comes in, gives a bitter, you know, blast and then it just dissipates. Then you take the next puff, it's a bitter blast and it goes out.
**Chef Ricky:** I've never been on a pod where I've heard so many lizards try to clear their throat or a tick wound their throat or something. And to me, that just speaks to the dryness of the cigar, um, or the dryness of the finish rather. And I've put this down about four times. I don't want to sit here not smoking [00:56:00] anything.
And I left my other cigars in my car. So you're held hostage. I keep picking it up. And I'm, and every time I pick it up and draw, I'm just like, why,
**Gizmo:** why did I do that?
**Senator:** People think our job is easy. It's not always easy. Listen,
**Gizmo:** this is episode 168. This might be the third time that I have felt this poorly.
About a cigar that we are smoking. I am blown away by how bad this cigar is right now. I
**Poobah:** mean, I don't have time for this. Is it a dumpster fire? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm, I'm, I'm pushing through it. Hang on, hang in with it. But I'm trying to push. There's no
**Bam Bam:** reason to, um, we are, we'll do this together, boys.
Yeah, let's, let's
**Gizmo:** push through.
**Bam Bam:** So, you know, Not to, I know you got something you're going to segue to, but going through this cigar, we're going to smoke a few later on tonight. It's hard to clean your palate after this.
**Gizmo:** Honestly, this is a cigar that makes me just want to go home and try again tomorrow.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. Like you're going to
**Gizmo:** [00:57:00] have to, I don't know if I want to like, it's not bad. Push my palate through something else. Like I want to give my palate a break. Yeah, there's no other cigar
**Rooster:** that's going to taste better after smoking this for a week.
**Poobah:** You're upside. We're like the next five business days. We're
**Gizmo:** done this week.
It's Monday.
**Poobah:** Correct.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's raise the energy of the room. We have a great voice memo. I'm so happy we have this. And I think you guys are going to agree. This is one of the coolest things I think we've ever gotten, and I'm really excited to share it on the podcast, especially with how we're feeling.
about this cigar tonight. So I'm going to share this. This is from Lizard Max.
**Lizard Max Voice Memo:** Lizards, this is Lizard Max, and I listen to the pod of Lizard Enriquez. Have you guys ever thought about naming the Lizard logo? I think a great name would be Lucy, like Lusitania, or Party, like Partius. [00:58:00] Thank you, Lizards. This is Lizard Max, over and out.
**Gizmo:** Wow. Lizard Max.
**Pagoda:** Very cool. How awesome is that? That's adorable. I think a loose party would sound really good.
**Bam Bam:** A Lucy party. Naming the logo. We got to name the logo. That's a great idea. I've never
**Gizmo:** even thought about that.
**Bam Bam:** Well, we have some brand strategists over here. Yeah, go ahead. You guys, you guys will handle that.
**Gizmo:** Can we get a deck together? You can wait. Yeah. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** we need a deck. And I want it to be competitive. Me
**Poobah:** and Senator will whiteboard that and uh, we'll get it done. I like
**Gizmo:** the two suggestions, Lucy and Party. I love it. I think Lucy's the one personally. I do like it. Yeah. I like Lucy. I do like Lucy. I love getting Lucy, the lizard voice memo from Lizard Max.
I, I got the alliteration. I do like it. Yeah. Wow. Wonderful. Lucy, the lizard. That's pretty good. Cool. Lucy, the lizard. I didn't think about that. Lucy, the lizard.
**Poobah:** Wow.
**Pagoda:** I thought party liked the lizard would be more fun. .
**Gizmo:** Well done, Lizard Max. Thank you for writing in and his dad, Lizard Enrique, writes us all the time.
But that's the first time we've ever gotten a voice memo from a junior lizard out [00:59:00] there. That's awesome. Keep them coming, Max. We love to, uh, we love hearing from you. That's awesome. We're gonna move on now to our Lizard of the Week. This one's from Lizard Waylon. He says, Hello, Lizards. Waylon from West Los Angeles checking in here.
The last few days have been very stressful. I'm near the mandatory evac zone, but we're still in our home. Now, for any lizards out there who don't watch the news, uh, what he's referencing is the devastating, insane fire that the Los Angeles area has experienced over the last few weeks. I mean, just absolutely insane.
Uh, so he's saying that he's in West Los Angeles. In the evac zone. He's very close to it. Still there. Who knows how that's going to change. Even as we record over the next few days here before this episode comes out. Um, who knows what's going to happen? It's, it's pretty terrible. He says, winds are expected to pick up again early this week.
So this thing ain't over yet. I feel extremely lucky to still be in my home and safe with my family. So many people have [01:00:00] lost everything. It's devastating. What's happening. Prayers to all. Thankfully, I've got a few cigars. In which has been a great stress reliever. I smoked the Aladino classic elegante Lancero, and it was fantastic.
What a bargain. Have you tried the Robusto? And I'm curious how the other Vitolas are due to a few too many purchases recently, my small wine fridge that I use as my humidor is busting at the seams. Could you guys run over your tower humidor setups, make model, et cetera. Any specific tips, recommendations, et cetera, would also be great.
Greatly appreciated. Keep up the fantastic work, gentlemen. Your podcast is something I always look forward to, and it will be enjoyed during these difficult times. Cheers, Lizard Whalen. That's incredible. So that tees up, I mean, you know. We have to talk about what's going on in Los Angeles. I, I, I know some cigar smokers on our Facebook groups that have, that live out there and are [01:01:00] dealing with it or evacuating their homes, their families, you know, less importantly, relevant to what we do, their cigar collections, their pets, which I consider family in my house, certainly.
Um, it's just unbelievable what we're seeing out there. It's difficult to comment on it,
**Bam Bam:** honestly, what they're going through.
**Rooster:** Apparently it's the worst in like 35, 40 years. And you see the news footage. It's just, it's, it doesn't seem real. Like there's
**Gizmo:** entire towns. Yeah. Gone. Doesn't seem the whole town.
Like it looks like, like a nuclear bomb went off, you know, it's, it's absolutely insane.
**Rooster:** I mean, this is the area between Malibu and Santa Monica.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. It's
**Rooster:** been
**Senator:** just Pacific palisades. I'll be in wizard, uh, lizard Wayland's, uh, Neck of the woods next week, I'll be in West LA. Really? From what I've heard, I've been getting daily updates to know if I'm gonna be able to make this trip.
**Bam Bam:** Yowza.
**Senator:** As of right now, West LA itself is okay. I mean, they can see all of the craziness. But, so [01:02:00] far, you know, they've been very fortunate. I
**Poobah:** heard something in the news tonight about West LA. There are, um, folks renting properties, so renting houses, like renting out their houses. Yeah, but at extremely high rates.
And, um, at, well, starting at relatively reasonable rates. I would hope so. And then the realtor get, they get into like a, a, a lease war essentially. Yeah. Where there's, there's a battle over how much rent. Um, folks are going to pay because you've got a lot of, um, really high net worth people from the Pacific Palisades and Malibu who are looking for, or who are looking for, you know, a three month, six month, eight month, year long lease, knowing they're going to have to build their houses back up.
And that it can take two years or three years to get building permits based on the [01:03:00] way. The bureaucracy set up there now, um, that they're, they're, they're actually like opting into these insane leases while they build their houses back up. So there's that, which is tough. It makes it more competitive for, you know, for, for the average person that's kind of, to kind of find a re some reasonable housing.
Uh, some rental housing. So it's, it's a problem. It's, it's, it's a, it's a real, it's one of the biggest natural disasters, if not the biggest in, in, I think, I think 50, 60, 70 years. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** And I mean, just think about, I feel so bad for the people who didn't have the warning. You know, some folks had had a few hours warning, a day warning, a couple of days warning saying, Pack up, be ready to go.
We'll let you know. But some of these folks, especially now at the Dean of Pacific Palisades didn't have that kind of time. It just happened and it decimated everything they have. I just can't imagine. I feel so bad. And it's one way and
**Poobah:** it's one [01:04:00] way in one way out. And, and so there's not enough infrastructure there for people to get out.
So if you don't get out when the getting's good, it sounds to me like that it's been pretty tough.
**Rooster:** Where
**Gizmo:** do you go? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's terrible. So let's go back to lizard Wayland's questions here, boys. He was asking us about his tower, our tower humidor setups. And I know we discussed this on a recent episode, but we can run through it again really fast.
So. Rooster and I are rocking Vigilant Vault 2000s with Cigar Oasis units in them. Uh, we, we ordered those, I guess about two years ago we've had those now, right?
**Rooster:** Yeah,
**Gizmo:** about that.
**Bam Bam:** Now, do both of you have the same exterior finish color?
**Gizmo:** Everything is identical between our two units. I got mine first and then Rooster got his.
Except the kitty litter. I don't have any kid with a kid in her mind, but thank you. Correct. I'm sorry. Silica beads. [01:05:00] I used to have the unit that Poobah still has the Remington. Uh, he had it in a different color. You had it in cherry cherry, right? I had it in a, it's
**Poobah:** essentially just all it really is, is just a, um, a fancy.
Tupper door with trays in it. I mean, I don't run the fan. I don't run the, it doesn't seem to work well. However, it's so sealed that my all through the winter, all through it's always at 62, it just stays there. So when the winter comes, I just put, I put Boveda, um, 65s in there in the winter, and it just, you know, you take like four of them, five of them maintained.
And it keeps it maintained and then by the time the spring comes, it's just, it's constantly at 62. I just look at it. It's constantly at 62. So for me, I think the seal on it, the magnetic seal, it's like a [01:06:00] refrigerator seal. I think that makes a difference. Um, yeah, it's,
**Gizmo:** it's perfectly sealed. There's no air leakage.
It's
**Poobah:** perfectly sealed. I just don't run the fan in it because I just, I unplugged it because for whatever reason, but it keeps my cigars
**Gizmo:** fine. Yeah. So Senator run through or bam, run through what you Pagoda and bam, you guys have the same exact set up. We have the tower
**Senator:** power of power. So it's all Cedar is great.
My preference is an all Cedar set up. You know, some of them like poop is describing it. It's kind of like a, a wine a door, but yeah, it's been great. Uh, cigar oasis in there. Can't go wrong.
**Gizmo:** So that one though, when you get it, you have to install a seal, a seal, correct?
**Bam Bam:** Yes.
**Gizmo:** And lights?
**Bam Bam:** You should. Yeah. Yeah.
There's also an outlet in the rear that you're needing to seal. Correct. Um, one thing I don't like about it at the top, there's that circular opening,
**Senator:** which is absurd. There's no, I have no idea [01:07:00] why they cut that. That's for a light probably. So they don't even sell a light for it.
**Bam Bam:** No. So I cut two pieces of cedar.
And got them in, got them up and then I put glue around the perimeter and just kind of pulled it down just to kind of seal the top off
**Senator:** because it's just wasted all that humidity is
**Bam Bam:** hanging around up there for no reason that you know, the top shelves, their
**Senator:** holes at the top, there's one large
**Bam Bam:** hole, eight inch diameter opening at the top
**Senator:** that like looks like a light should just slot.
That's right. But yet they don't sell a light to put in there. So I
**Rooster:** don't know why they cut it in. It doesn't even make sense to put a light there because you have shelves with boxes. Correct. Honestly,
**Bam Bam:** I love it because there's no technology. It's like a large desktop. You season it, you get your Oasis in.
I do have at the top two jars of silica, just to kind of I do. And this for the winter months, the humidity's lower. I put the silicon at the top. Yeah, you needed the winter for sure. Yeah. Yeah. But that, that comes out in the spring. Um, and I just recently put my Oasis back in. Uh, that's great.
**Poobah:** Yeah. [01:08:00] I mean, mine's in my basement.
So In your office? Yeah. Yeah. So it, I, I think the humidity down there is, uh, is higher. Mm-hmm . So I'm able to just maintain it so when the winter comes around, I just take like three or four of those big, um, Bo Vitas. The bovida, uh, the big ones, you know what I mean? The big, the big monster ones. I put three or four of those in there and they last me the whole winter.
**Bam Bam:** Do you have an oasis at them? No. See, that's the, that's the key. But it's got, but it's perfectly sealed unit. The tower of power is awesome, but unless you seal that door, you're in trouble. Oh, yeah. Well, the door is sealed.
**Poobah:** The thing on
**Gizmo:** the Remy
**Poobah:** for you is sealed
**Bam Bam:** because it's
**Poobah:** magnet. That's right. Magnetic.
Yeah. It's like a refrigerator. You
**Gizmo:** don't have discovered. And, and this might be just a backorder issue, but I'm finding, cause I was talking to a friend in the lounge. I think the tower of power might've been discontinued.
**Senator:** It has, there's like a new name for it, but it looks identical. It's identical. Cause I was helping another listener in lounge by one just the other day.
Got it.
**Bam Bam:** And when we purchased [01:09:00] ours, we got an incredible deal. It's like twice the price, man, more than double.
**Poobah:** Oh yeah. And I think where it is in your house is very important. And you know, if it's in your basement or if it's, it just depends on the humidity levels. So I store my cigars in the same place that I store my guitars and the acoustic guitars that I store outside of that room, I also humidify the room using something called the Venta.
Um, the Venta is a Swiss like, like, Air purifier and humidifier. So I will run that as well in that small, you know, the small office that I have with the humidor is, so I will run that as well. Just kind of supplement the, the humidity within the room.
**Bam Bam:** You don't technically don't need it because of the seal that you have around your unit.
**Poobah:** True. But there is a little bit for the guitars, but I need it for the instruments. So I, that, that may, that may create my [01:10:00] hypothesis is, is that it creates a little bit of homeostasis in terms of not getting too dried out in that closed off room. So it just. I run the, I run the, this thing called the Venta humidifier unit, which is an air cleanser and a humidifier.
They're, they're actually expensive. They're like 700 bucks. Um, but I run that and it's not bad and I run it, but, but, but when I run it, I, you know, It's good because it purifies the air and it also humidifies it at an exact what's it called? Aventa, V E N T A Anyway, I'm just saying I run a little it's it's not a humidifier like a Vicks humidifier like a
**Gizmo:** yeah I got you just throwing distilled distilled water out It's just, it's just, it's purified
**Chef Ricky:** 700.
That thing probably looks like a spaceship. No, it's a small black box,
**Poobah:** man. I mean, it's, yeah.
**Gizmo:** [01:11:00] So to answer his other questions, as far as recommendations, I think my recommendation would be if you're buying something, try to plan a few years in the future to not buy an intermediary. Type of tower by what might be the final piece of furniture that you want to have because yeah, there's
**Senator:** one cardinal rule It's the same thing with televisions.
You can never go too big and whatever you buy will always feel too small Exactly. It doesn't matter if you build yourself a walk in humidor, you will fill it and then it will feel too small That's just the one rule a
**Bam Bam:** truer statement has not been spoken on this podcast With our collections and even people that are starting to collect you need room Absolutely.
There's just no
**Gizmo:** way around it. And my other recommendation too, you know, we're talking, uh, Rooster and I have the Vigilant. It comes with the option of getting glass in the doors or having doors with no glass. And unless you're in a situation where there's a lot of sunlight coming into your room, which would affect your collection, my recommendation, and it applies to all of the towers that we're talking about in the room, you need [01:12:00] to be able to see your collection so you can, uh, Evaluate what you want to pick.
It's all displayed for you. You make your decision. You open the door, you pull it out, you close the door. You don't have a lot of humidity, air exchange, you know, humid air exchange. So I would recommend making sure you can see your collection unless you're in a high sunlight environment, then you would.
You know, you not want to have the, uh, the glass in the door. Because
**Rooster:** in the wintertime, I'm sure you have noticed this. As soon as you open the door, if it's at 62, within 30 seconds, it goes to 52. Yeah. I mean, it's so quick. But you
**Bam Bam:** have to love when you open that door, the aroma. Oh, it smells so good. It's the best.
If you
**Chef Ricky:** go the glass door route and you have a room with lots of sunlight, you could always tend to glass too. Yeah, you could always put speakers
**Bam Bam:** in there and Trick it out. Sorry guys, it's the Puerto Rican. I'm going to mount the TV inside the back of it.
**Rooster:** It's on wheels. It's like from the 7 5. Put some flames inside.
[01:13:00] I
**Senator:** like, I like my exhaust. My Porsche, my poor, put
**Poobah:** an exhaust on the cigar wastes. What's the guy's name? Adam Diaz on the seven five. He goes, I'd like my Porsche. I like Julio Iglesias. I like Ryan Adams. I don't like this rap shit. I figured if you're going to go with cat lit or why not
**Chef Ricky:** tinted glass? Come on.
All right. So this is the
**Gizmo:** first time I'm, I'm I've ever asked this question in 168 episodes. Is anyone still smoking the cigar?
**Poobah:** No.
**Gizmo:** So I put my cigar I put my cigar down Thank God, by the way, thank God. I put my cigar down, it's not even I've not even gotten to the last third. Yeah. Um. About an inch and a half down.
It is horrendous. This cigar is horrendous.
**Rooster:** This is a rarity. I mean, it does not happen often. I don't remember the last time I put one down. This may be the second time I've ever put one [01:14:00] down.
**Bam Bam:** We even finished the La Punta, man.
**Rooster:** And we also finished the,
**Gizmo:** uh, Las Calaveras. We did finish that. We did. We smoked that all the way down.
This really was, for me, has been an impossible smoke. Overall, a brutal experience. Yeah. Yeah. Pagoda, I see you're still smoking. Very tough from the,
**Poobah:** very tough.
**Pagoda:** Mine hasn't been that bad, meaning it's been, It's not something I ever smoke again.
**Rooster:** It's a 10. It's a 10. .
**Pagoda:** You know what? I ignore them. Hold your ground, dude.
No, always. I always hold my ground. . Listen, listen. You know why it's so resolute. Ice, you know what it is, is at the, at the end of the day. Um, I don't know whether there's nothing. No, I agree. It's really better than a bit of harshness, but. I tend to smoke most of my cigars to the end, anyway. I don't think I've ever put a cigar down here.
**Chef Ricky:** You know, it's not even bitter anymore. It's, it's, it, it, it has no character. There's nothing in [01:15:00] this cigar that holds my interest, that makes me want to pick it back up again. Other than that, I really want to smoke a cigar right now.
**Pagoda:** But I do think, I think if you all would have had a V cut, it might have been a slightly different experience, I think.
No way. If only we had
**Senator:** a V cut. There was, there was most of a cut. No way, bro. I didn't have a problem. The blend would have just been Guided hypothesis. I did not touch the, I've ever heard from you. Listen, don't let
**Pagoda:** them sway your judgment. Of course not. I did not. If we, if, if we only had, I did not touch, we only had the SI did not touch the cigar.
Once I had a reasonable smoke output, I had a, you know. I smoked it. I'm not saying it's a really good cigar, but for me, you know, everything does not have to be Cuban or very light or mild with a floral salty or whatever it is for me. Like, I'm fine with this. You know what I want? I just wanted to. I'm just fine with this.
**Gizmo:** I don't
**Chef Ricky:** care where it comes from. I'm drinking a nice bottle of nice purified water. I think it's like Duane Reade's brand and this has more. We're going into the deep woods tonight, boys. This has more [01:16:00] complexity than the cigar. I just finished smoking for the record. I'm sorry,
**Senator:** but I was with you until the end part.
What are we talking? This has nothing to do with being not being a Cuban cigar light. Anything? No, no. I'm just saying that it doesn't. Please let me just finish. Yeah, we smoked Patron's. We smoked Davidoff's. We spoke Liga nines. We spoke plenty of full flavored cigars. This is just as shitty of blend and flavor profile as we've ever smoked on this podcast.
Fair enough.
**Pagoda:** I'm glad you do. I'm like, I smoked it to the end. That's all. There we go. Like I didn't have to put it down. That's all.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. I can't believe it already, but we are coming to the end of our evening here because most of us have put the cigar down. I think Pagoda might've just put his cigar down and it's time to move into the ratings portion of our program.
We're going to start with the formal liquor rating on the Will It Pot Still Reserve Bourbon, Bam Bam. Good luck.
**Bam Bam:** I'm going to give this a seven. Okay. Um, It's a little too sweet for me. Um, but I like the [01:17:00] nose. There's some vanilla there. It was fairly drinkable. I don't think I'll ever have it again, but I think for some people that go for the very, like the very basic straightforward bourbon, kind of fits the bill.
Seven. Mild recommend. All
**Chef Ricky:** right, Chef Ricky. Yeah, I'm right there at a seven with you, Ben. Um, look, the bottle is impressive. I think it'll make a good gift to someone that you kind of like, uh, someone that, you know,
don't give it to your in laws. Someone you want to play it safe with, you know, it's not too complex. It's, uh, it's not polarizing in any way. Uh, you know, there's some butterscotch notes, there's some vanilla. Um, viscosity is on point. Uh, but yeah, it's not super complex. There's nothing else outside of, uh, what you find in a basic bourbon.
So yeah, it's a seven.
**Gizmo:** All right. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Like it's a seven for me too. I, I was surprised I was able to drink a 47 in a proof, uh, bourbon. Without [01:18:00] ice, but I was taking really small sips, and I think, you know, it kind of worked. Which is how you're supposed to drink a spirit. Very, very small. No gulping. No, no gulping.
I'll try and remember that.
**Bam Bam:** That's a pet peeve number three.
**Pagoda:** Only yours. Well done. All right. It's your bed, B. All right. Correct. But, you know, my thing is it's a 7 for me.
**Gizmo:** So for me the Bourbons is 6. I found this to be on the weaker end of the Bourbons that we've done on the podcast. There really wasn't a lot of Definition in the flavor profile for me.
I didn't really enjoy it. I will never get this again. If I take another sip of this again, I'd be shocked. So
**Bam Bam:** you hated it?
**Gizmo:** I wouldn't say I hated it. I would say, comparative to other bourbons that I have access to and that I drink regularly, that I would rate a 7, 8, 9. This is very, very much below. At the same
**Poobah:** price point, Woodford Reserve blows it away.
**Gizmo:** Of course. Oh, that's true. But it wasn't a bad spirit. Yeah, [01:19:00] I, I wanna say that it, it objectively is not a bad bourbon. It did not work for me.
**Bam Bam:** Mm-hmm .
**Gizmo:** I understand why someone would enjoy this potentially. So
**Bam Bam:** not even a mild recommended
**Gizmo:** No, I, I, I'm fine. I'm very much at a six, but it's not That's fair. Like, it's not a disgusting spirit that I would rate a three or four or five
That's, that's not that
**Pagoda:** Indian whiskey.
**Gizmo:** It's not, it's not injury for sure. So I'm, Hey. Now by
**Pagoda:** the way, a lot of people like Injury Man, , a lot of people like it. They do. They do. I will actually add an event the other day and people love it.
**Senator:** What organization is this so I never attend?
**Pagoda:** Hey, that's fine. I don't think you'll be invited anyway.
Oh!
**Bam Bam:** Who's
**Pagoda:** got the violin? People with
**Senator:** taste will not be invited. Senator. I'm going to round up and give it a seven. I mean, there's nothing offensive about it. It's just, it was not as interesting as I would have hoped. The reason for me, I'm kind of heartbroken that there's not like an excessively priced and [01:20:00] readily available.
Will it to enjoy? I had, and I just looked this up. I can't believe this now, my experience with will it. My first experience with a friend who is as intense about bourbon as we are about cigars and scotch. Uh, there's this Will It Like Purple label bottle. I just looked it up, I can't believe this. It is 130 proof.
I drank this neat, and I am not kidding, you know I don't drink high proof spirits much at all. You would never in your wildest dreams guess that this is 130 proof. It is, to this day, the best bourbon I have ever had. We need to review that. No, here's the problem. No, no, no. Are you ready? I can't get it. Are you ready for how much this is?
Black market pricing? This black market bullshit with bourbon? This bottle goes for the cheapest. I have found it for is 800. Oh, no, thank you. To like 1, You still
**Gizmo:** want to review it? No. That's why I said that's a definitive. No, that's, that's [01:21:00] exactly my reaction. It's insane. I mean, it's so inaccessible. It's like Pappy Van Winkle price.
Yes,
**Senator:** it is outrageous, but it's way better than Pappy. Um, so I just, the thing I, that was so enjoyable. I loved the flavor profile. And it just kills me that there's not like an accessible version of, will it, that has more of that DNA that we could appreciate. Nonetheless, though, there's nothing wrong with this.
It's just not complex. So I think a seven is a fair score. Yeah,
**Poobah:** it's a seven for me too. I, I, I didn't, it didn't have the sweetness. It didn't have, I like a little bit of sweetness in the, in a bourbon. I like a little bit more cinnamon. I like a little bit more of that kind of winter. Flavor. And it was a very hot finish and dry finish for me.
So even
**Bam Bam:** with the chips of icy put in, yes, even,
**Poobah:** yeah, it was hot for me. Um, it just didn't have the [01:22:00] complexity that I was looking for. I mean, um, There's some straightforward bourbons out there, like a Woodford, which is straightforward and drinkable. Now, if you took this and maybe you made it into an old fashioned, or you mixed it with something and made a cocktail out of it, maybe it would perform better.
But like, for me, it's a seven. It's a, it's a, it's a soft recommend. I said, that's
**Pagoda:** what most bourbons are meant for anyway.
**Bam Bam:** I'm kidding. I'm kidding. All right, boys, the formal liqueurating
**Gizmo:** tonight on the will it pot still reserve bourbon. It's a 6. 8.
**Bam Bam:** Okay, fair.
**Gizmo:** That's a fair score. I think it's a fair score for that.
Yeah, for how it performed tonight. And now boys, it's time to move on to the formal lizard rating tonight. Can I go last? On Cigar Aficionado's Cigar of the Year 2024, My Father M. F. the Judge in Gran Robusto. Rooster, you are up.
**Rooster:** I think somebody [01:23:00] mentioned, I would not even give this cigar to my enemy. That was said, I said, my word, not even my worst, my worst.
By the way, I have three. We'll have to find some folks. I mean, how low can you go? This cigar is
**Pagoda:** wrapped in a different band.
**Rooster:** I'm kidding. I don't think that would help. I mean, uh, let's start with the ring gauge, a massive ring gauge with. With like two bands, three bands, foot band, two, two bands. I mean, this cigar is just, we put it down.
I mean, I didn't even finish like the last third of it. Um, the cigar really has nothing to offer. Um, I'm at a, I hate to do this, but I'm at a, I'm at a four.
**Chef Ricky:** But that's higher than I thought you were going to go. Yeah. I was going to go
**Rooster:** even lower, but I mean, there might be somebody out there that might like the cigar, but it's definitely not in this room.
Our flavor profile, even without a week V cut or whatever cut you want to give [01:24:00] it. I don't think nothing's going to help this. Yeah.
**Senator:** Let's ask Eli if people in Mars would like this cigar. I mean, there's no one on this planet that would love this cigar. Except the
**Rooster:** guys on Cigar Aficionado, I guess they loved
**Senator:** it.
**Rooster:** Well, I love that revenue. I'm going to do
**Bam Bam:** something. Senator just relit his.
**Senator:** I relit it because I'm debating between two numbers. I'm giving it. You know
**Bam Bam:** what? That's not a bad idea. Let me give it another shot.
**Senator:** All right, Poobah,
**Pagoda:** you're up. You dropped the cigar halfway. Is he really up? No, I'm totally up.
Exhibit A.
**Poobah:** Exhibit
**Bam Bam:** A.
**Poobah:** Exhibit A. All right, go. You know. I can't give it anything higher than a four. Um, for me, it was, this is one of the worst cigars we've ever smoked on this podcast. Uh, it's, uh, I don't think I've ever given anything a four. Um, but this is a terrible cigar. It really lacked merit in all departments.
From combustion, the [01:25:00] construction was not great. The burn was inconsistent and, uh, and the flavor was, was a lackluster to say the least. So I don't have any problem with it. I put it down at the halfway point and did it get better for anybody else? The answer is no. After the halfway point. So. I am, I'm really as low as the score is, and it's probably the lowest score I've ever given, which is a four.
And it's, it's well deserving of a fucking four. We got it.
**Senator:** All right, Senator. Uh, so I'm in lockstep with the last two guys. I I'm also at a four. I relit it because sadly I was debating between a three and a four. Yeah. Um, is there a
**Bam Bam:** difference?
**Senator:** There is. There is between the three. I'm serious for me, the three, if this was, um, if most of this was unsmokable, I would definitely be a three or [01:26:00] I mean, if the whole cigar is unsmokable, that's when we're getting toward a two or a one.
Um, but when I relit it. It is smokable. I'm not enjoying what I'm getting, but it can be smoked. So I'm giving it a four in the sense that there were very fleeting moments where I got some decent flavor notes that one might look for in a cigar, but for the overwhelming majority of this cigar, It was bitter.
It was harsh. It wasn't complex. It wasn't refined. Um, the presentation of it is, I mean, there are 2 premium seconds that look more impressive or nicer than this cigar does. And the countless sub 10 cigars that we've had, that's been incredible. Agreed. Um, the combustion for a 60 ring gauge cigar. There are [01:27:00] Robustos that put out way more smoke than this cigar does.
I don't know how it's even possible.
**Poobah:** Corona's that put out way
**Senator:** more. I don't know how it's possible. Like if this were any other size. It would just be a normal amount of smoke output. Let's say for a Robusto or something very common. I don't get how this thing wasn't a chimney all the way through. I mean, there was never a point in the first half of this cigar where we were sitting here saying the room is full of clouds of smoke and our eyes are burning.
I mean, that's what I expected when we lit this cigar. So even on, from that perspective, it didn't deliver. Um, so I think Poobah said, you know, they're, they're really, uh, there's no merit to this cigar and I do have to agree with that. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone. I can't see, even if you like the flavor profile that this is attempting at, which is a flavor profile that most of us, if not all of us in this room pursue notes of cocoa and coffee, espresso, those are things we love this does it in such a poor way, [01:28:00] it's not enjoyable.
So, um, it's, uh, uh, a definite, uh, definitely not a recommend. So I'm gonna go with a three .
**Poobah:** Wow. . This is the lowest. That's be no score ever on the podcast ever.
**Gizmo:** I came in, I, I wanna reiterate again and, and, and I'm sure the listener can hear how a bad cigar and an okay bourbon affect. The vibe in this room and when you have seven guys sitting together smoking a cigar and, and a cigar, not only doesn't combust, I'd argue it sucks the air out of the room,
**Bam Bam:** the energy that we're sitting, the energy out of the room, it,
**Gizmo:** it, it changed all of our moods, it changed all of our nights, it changed everything about what we were experiencing tonight, that is D like can be defined as being a bad cigar.
It's a punisher. It's a pop for
**Chef Ricky:** the negative. It's, it's almost an anti cigar.
**Gizmo:** Exactly. [01:29:00] It did exactly the opposite of what we should expect a cigar to do.
**Poobah:** That's correct. It's like that moment when, like, when, when, when a cigar is going well. And, and sometimes I say, and you go, meaning like, wow, yeah, there's an element of euphoria, element of euphoria in a way, And you're like, wow, that's really good.
There was never a, there wasn't even close to a wow moment. Like maybe the first third was, wow, maybe the middle was wow. And you kind of had that, wow, you know, I'm kind of like, this is relaxing me. Are you fighting with this thing the whole time? And who wants to be in a fight?
**Gizmo:** The flavor was bitter. The flavor was harsh.
The flavor was terrible. I often say with cigars that I don't enjoy. And I just said it with this bourbon that was okay for me tonight. I can see [01:30:00] someone enjoying this bourbon. I can't understand someone loving this cigar and it's, it's such a harsh, not recommend for me tonight that I'm going with a three.
I think this might be the second three I've ever given on the podcast. I am so. Disappointed comparative to cigar aficionado giving this a 98 naming it the cigar of the year. This cigar for the next year is supposed to, is supposed to represent our industry as the best thing that we can put together as, as an entire industry.
This is the one, this is it. Yeah.
**Rooster:** I just canceled my subscription to the cigar aficionado. There's no point. You're late to the parade.
**Gizmo:** No, I did
**Rooster:** too.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So I, I, I can't believe it. And, and, and, and finally I'll put, I'll put an, I'll put it on a button as a, put a button on it as well. Again, with the, with the ring gauge of the cigar, when you have a cigar of this ring gauge, which we've, we laugh about that.
I don't love, I don't think any of us reach for a [01:31:00] cigar, this ring gauge fine. But when you have a cigar, this ring gauge, the taste is bad as this does, but then also has combustion and construction issues to the level that it does after I've had it. For a month in my low humidity tower that we just talked about lizard whale and asking us about it is unacceptable for this cigar to perform at this level.
**Poobah:** It's not a conditioning issue. It's a, it's a blend issue. It's not,
**Gizmo:** it's completely unacceptable for a cigar to perform like this. I want my money back and I am really upset and unhappy. And I walked in tonight, really excited to say, you know what? We have a great cigar, it's 10 bucks, go buy it, and I can't believe that it performed the opposite of that.
Not even
**Bam Bam:** in the
**Gizmo:** middle,
**Bam Bam:** the opposite of that. I don't think the rest of us are going to vote, we're leaving. That's it, end of the evening. I mean, I'm not surprised,
**Poobah:** I've thrown out every judge I've ever smoked. Did you? Yep. I said
**Senator:** that at the beginning of the podcast. I know. I was joking. [01:32:00] And the middle. And the end.
Did you forget
**Bam Bam:** exhibit A? Okay, fine.
**Gizmo:** Alright, so that's it for me. I'm not going to rail on this anymore. I'm just blown away. Uh, I'll finish by saying cigar aficionados should be ashamed of themselves for naming this cigar of the year. There's a thousand other cigars out there. 167 that we've smoked that have performed better than this.
Don't instigate rooster. What are you doing? This cigar is an absolute putrid cigar.
**Bam Bam:** All right next pagoda. Let's go I think
**Pagoda:** everybody's waiting for my review today for the first time, but hey, listen, i'm double get a score double six I don't think it's a recommend because, um, it did get very, very bitter.
The, the chocolate bitterness is there. The, whatever you call it, uh, dark chocolate bitterness. It just gets too much. But having said that for me, I never touched up the cigar once. The smoke output was great for [01:33:00] me. I think, I think I asked it like three or four times. They, you know, the ash held on for about an inch and a half each time.
I, you know, it's a 10 cigar. Um, And I, you know, I, maybe it was a Vcut I did that helped me with the smoke output. I'm not sure.
**Poobah:** The smoke output for everyone else's cigar was, was below subpar. Don't forget like a double bogey.
**Pagoda:** You guys can make fun of it, but that's what it was. Right. But imagine a
**Rooster:** double V,
**Pagoda:** but I smoke this. Imagine. Can you imagine a double V it'd be a 12. I smoked a cigar till the end. And I think for me, it's a six. And that's really it. So I'm just
**Senator:** curious, would you ever smoke it again? Nope.
**Pagoda:** It's short of a recommend, but to be fair, though, a six is not a recommend either. It's not. That's what I'm saying.
**Gizmo:** Correct. Correct. Correct. All right. Chef Ricky, you're up. [01:34:00]
**Chef Ricky:** I wish I was last. Uh, do you, you can go below a three, by the way. You can go to zero . No, you do have the best ballad. I have. Listen, I I I've been between a three and a four and from jump, you know, I, I was sitting here and what's the lowest score ever given?
What's, what's reasonably low without being insulting. Uh, and you know what I realized? I'm just putting too much thought into it. And I'm giving, I'm trying to save this cigar in some way, even though those are two very horrible scores. So I'm going to stick with my three. Uh, originally I was going to go from a three to a four because the retrohale at points were somewhat.
Uh, okay. But then there were earlier times in the cigar, the first or that were especially peppery, uh, and unpleasant. Um, and then overall, the cigar just got really uninteresting. Uh, I started picking up flavor profile or flavor notes that I don't even want to say out loud on the pod, uh, cause it's just not gentlemen, uh, like to do it.
[01:35:00] So yeah, I think three is. Um, is a, is a, is the score for this cigar. Uh, you know, I think the people at CA are a bunch of MFers. Um, yeah, that too. Uh, yeah, I just, it's, it's not, it's not worth smoking. It's not worth purchasing. Um, it is smokable, so that's why it deserves a couple of points. But what's the point?
Of smoking the cigar, there's no point to smoking this cigar. Um, you know, there's cigars that are cheaper, that perform better that we've had, uh, and there's cigars that are slightly more expensive that blow it away. So
**Poobah:** Dole Dole v Melanio makes this thing, makes this thing look like a goddamn makes the, the senator d it's like caviar compared to this goddamn thing.
There's so many cigars. Am I wrongs
**Chef Ricky:** so many cigars, uh, that just so many blow this thing away. And yeah, it's, it's unfortunate. I [01:36:00] think people pick it up because of the name, because of the bands. I see people getting this early on in their journeys. Uh, and you know, hopefully you come around and you get some other cigars, you know, in, in your, in your, on your palate and in your repertoire where you realize, yeah, this cigar is not the cigar to smoke ever.
Uh, so yeah, I'm fine with my three. Um, yeah, it's a three.
**Gizmo:** All right, Bam Bam, you're banging your head on the mic. Oh, is it
**Bam Bam:** my turn now? Yes. All right. Uh, this is easy. It's a four. Uh, there are human beings out there that can smoke this. And it's smokable. Thank you. Thank you.
**Poobah:** There are aliens from Mars who can smoke this.
Hey,
**Bam Bam:** some of us can. Some people can smoke it. It's a four.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys. That puts the formal Lizard Rating tonight on my father, M. F. the Judge, the Gran Robusto, at a very flat. 4.0. [01:37:00] Wow. 58 points lower than cigar, aficionado, cigar of the year at a 98. There you go. 4.0. All right, let's compare that to the other my father cigars we've done on the pod mf, the judge, the Toro pheno on episode 23 got a 5.6
The my father, number four, LAN zero. On episode 62 scored a 7. 6 and the Don Pepin Garcia blue Lancero on episode 73 scored a 9. 0. Yes. Good cigar. That is a dramatic increase in scores across the four of them from a 4. 0 to a 9. 0.
**Senator:** So forget where this stacks up with my father, where does this stack up with worst cigars we've ever reviewed?
**Gizmo:** So
**Senator:** I was gotta be this in the Las Calaveras. The Las Calaveras was actually worse
**Gizmo:** than this. Are
**Senator:** you serious? On
**Gizmo:** episode 3. 3, Senator actually gave that one a 2. [01:38:00]
**Pagoda:** I didn't know you could go as low.
**Gizmo:** Gizmo, Gizmo and Rooster gave it a 3, Pagoda, Grindr. And bam, I'll give that fours again. That was episode 59, three.
So glad I missed that as far as other cigars that have even come on that quickly
**Senator:** comparing the two. The reason that I think accurately reflects it got a lower score. We all complained there was no flavor in that cigar. I, in the entire way, said it was like smoking toilet paper. So at least with this, there was some flavor.
It's just delivered in a horrible way. This was like
**Chef Ricky:** smoking newspaper. I've never smoked newspaper. A little ink,
**Gizmo:** uh, no, you know what? So the other cigar that, that edged this one out just a little bit in 2024 on episode 156, not that long ago, the warped El Oso 10th anniversary in Grand Papa scored a 4. 3, a couple of fives on that one, mostly fours.
But [01:39:00] that's scored a three points higher than this one. So this is definitely at the bottom of the barrel boys, as far as cigars go. And again, I I'm just, I apologize to the listeners that we put this pairing together tonight because in the room here, it wasn't fun. I hope it was fun to listen to, but I mean,
**Senator:** what a disappointment.
Yeah, I just think the saddest thing is that the number of people that are going to go out and try this like we did based on that cigar of the year designation and be so miserably disappointed. I mean, I feel bad for anyone that would have to sit through the experience. We just had very poor recommendation.
**Rooster:** I think the highlight on this podcast. Was Lizard Max
**Gizmo:** And our lizard of the week Lizard Whalen out there dealing with those fires in West, Los Angeles We hope for the best for Lizard Whalen and all of the lizards out there in LA. He's gonna win a prize pack from us We're gonna send them some stuff and anybody out there can win lizard of the week every week Just send us an email a voice memo like Lizard Max did [01:40:00] A comment on YouTube, Instagram, whatever you choose.
Just get in touch with us and you can win lizard of the week. All right, boys, let's go through it one more time. Do you will it pot still reserve bourbon tonight on the pod scored a 6. 8 and the cigar of the year from cigar aficionado. My father, M F the judge. And Gran Robusto scored a flat 4. 0. And that's it for tonight, boys.
We have to thank our sponsor. Of course, Fabrica 5. If you want some good cigars, not 4. 0s. If you want some really good cigars from Honduras, check out Fabrica005. com. Use our code. Of course, have to thank Lizard Whalen again, our lizard of the week. And. Let's hope for good things, boys. We'll see everybody next week.
Maybe. Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod. com. That's lounge lizards, P O D dot com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe [01:41:00] on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
Email us. Hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.