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Jeffrey Heine and Josh Hausen wrestle with the issues of legalism, freedom, & grace. They address questions like “Why is legalism so dangerous?”, “Does it really matter if I sin?”, “What difference does it make if I am obedient or not?”, “Does obeying the Bible make me a legalist?”
Redeemer exists to celebrate and declare the gospel of God as we grow in knowing and following Jesus Christ.
We all we all good? We're we're gonna dig in here? Okay. So in 1843 you gotta you you gotta start somewhere in the back. All right.
Speaker 1:So so in 18/43, there was a board game that was released. And, it was, you know, one of the first, like, American board games that was circulating and it was called Mansions of Happiness. Mansions of Happiness. And, the game, it kind of looked like a snake. It just went round and round and round.
Speaker 1:And as you entered into the game, your goal, like the end point on the board game, was the mansion of happiness, which was heaven. So as you started out like this game of life, you would, you know, make your way through these different steps, you'd roll the dice and you you'd make your way and you would move forward. And if you hit a virtue, you you were you were doing well, you could advance forward. If you hit a vice, you would slide backwards. So let me let me read to you some of some of the, instructions that came along with this 9, 1843.
Speaker 1:You know, like this is this is still hanging over from the Puritans. One of my favorite Puritan quotes, this is from, Garrison Keillor. He said, My ancestors were Puritans from England. They arrived here in 16/48 in the hope of finding greater restrictions than were permissible under English law at that time. We we were always told that the Puritans, they came here for religious freedom.
Speaker 1:That's true, the freedom to make more rules. So, so this is this is kinda in that same line of thinking, they they come up with that there's this game and the game is is called, Mansions of Happiness. Here are some instructions. Whoever possesses piety, honesty, temperance, gratitude, prudence, truth, chastity, sincerity, is entitled to advance 6 numbers towards the mansion of happiness. Whoever gets into a passion must be taken to the water and have a dunking to cool him.
Speaker 1:Whoever possesses audacity, cruelty, immodesty, or ingratitude must return to his former situation till his turn comes to spin again and not even think of happiness, much less partake of it. So here's this game where you are progressing further and further or regressing. Virtue leads you forward. Vice brings you back. Good behavior takes you forward.
Speaker 1:Bad behavior spiraling back down. And if you do enough good or if spinning or rolling the dice gets you further and further along, if you hit enough of those virtues, you get mansions of glory, happiness eternally. Now this is a pretty popular thinking still just throughout throughout history of religion or even just, you know, good moralism. That it's a it's progressive. That you you start taking on these better qualities, you start behaving better, and you hope to end your life or enter into, an afterlife better than than kind of how you started out.
Speaker 1:You know, you're selfish and you're prideful and you start trying to be more altruistic and and do nice things for people. This kind of spans religion and just kind of, you know, secular humanist thought as well. You try to become better in your behavior. That's just human progress. Well, this was an issue for the church, this question of how do we get better, why do we get better, and what does it mean to, you know, participate in holy living?
Speaker 1:An example of how this this problem persisted in the church really is, is purgatory. The the idea that there needed to still be some manner in which we were cleaned up and and and made better so we could enter into that mansion of happiness, that we have to have something get us right. Because we we know, if if you if you are a person of faith, there is this concept that we're not okay. We we know that we don't live perfectly and that we don't make all these right and good choices all the time. We don't always treat people the way that we want to be treated, you know, kind of those general golden rule things.
Speaker 1:We don't we don't do all those things, especially not all the time. And so we know that there's something pretty distinct that's wrong, there's a problem. And so since we know that we're not okay, in the belief in the god of the scriptures, if we if we first are going to say that the the bible is something that is true, that we we believe in and we we agree with what it says, not only about who we are but who god is. If we if we start off with that premise and we say, yes, we believe that, then we know that there is some need to to reconnect to this god because of the way that we live. There is a brokenness in that relationship.
Speaker 1:And that that wrong standing with god is something that when it comes to, the scriptures and the and the message of salvation, in salvation, one of the variables of salvation is the is the concept of justification. And in justification, that's meaning that that our standing before god as as sinners, as those who who are not righteous, that he makes a pronouncement, a decree that we are righteous, that we are justified before him. And so we have to figure out, well, how is this going to happen? So if we need this, if there's a broken relationship with god, evident in the way that we are broken and the way in which we live, it's evident in those things, and we say that we need this right relationship with god, And then we we're we're saying, well, how does this happen? How can we be good enough?
Speaker 1:How can this holy living actually happen? And so then the question becomes, how good is good enough? How how far down this, ladder, you know, to the mansions of happiness? How how do I get how many of these good virtues and these good decisions does it take to actually get to the end? And so as we're faced with this, the scriptures tell us and if we if we admit and we are we are saying that what the scriptures say about God and us is true, then what we find out there is that it is through God's own love and mercy that we are able to have this justification, that that righteousness is something that is not something that we have developed on our own, but it's something attributed to us.
Speaker 1:And that that happens because of the person of Christ. So that that that is what we would say in the Christian faith that we confess. We are not righteous by our own works, we are righteous because of the work of Christ. And that is attributed to us through God's justification, his declaration that that is going to be applied and attributed to you. So we we can recognize the problem and we can recognize this answer that comes through the scriptures, that we would be declared righteous, not guilty.
Speaker 1:That at god's declaration that though guilty sinners are nonetheless righteous in his sight. And we see this throughout the New Testament writings. We see this in Ephesians 2, in Titus 3, in Romans 11. And in Romans 11, 11, 6, and 7, there there's this really great picture that the apostle Paul offers. He's offering this this, clear picture of what god's grace means.
Speaker 1:And he says this. He says, if if we are justified by works, then grace is not grace. See, if grace is works, then grace is not grace. I said clear. He's saying that if grace is works, then grace is not grace.
Speaker 1:See, it's not it's not this it's not this gift. It's not this it's not this, pointed gift of love and mercy from god if it's about the way that we work ourselves into it. So he kinda gives that circular definition that grace is grace because grace is not works. Now, the Christian believer confesses these things. And so if you if you are a Christian, you can consider yourself to be a disciple of Christ, then this is this is the confession that we make, that we don't trust our own ability to earn this righteousness and this justification.
Speaker 1:It is something that god gifts, god graces to the individual. And this was really declared loudly at the at the reformation, that we have no shot to do this on our own. I mean, that that was kind of the the bold statement of the reformation, that we cannot earn our way to this, and that this justification is something that god has to do for us on our behalf. Otherwise, we have no shot. So here's the caveat.
Speaker 1:Here here's here's the other problem that kind of comes in. While we in the Christian church readily confess these things to be true, there is still often error in the way that we think about the way in which salvation comes to us. There's often error in the way that we think we obtain and maintain this right and restored relationship with God. And so I'm going to focus in in the rest of my time on 2 of those errors. And the first error, I phrase like this, an error in motivation.
Speaker 1:This is what we could call the legalistic or the legalist perspective, an error in motivation, that obedience earns our redemption, that obedience earns our justification. So, more specifically, what what is legalism? Legalism is this belief that our forgiveness, that our justification are those things are obtained by our obedience to god. This is a self designed salvation, that if I do enough of these things and I do them enough, that then god shows grace and favor to me because I have performed up to it to obtain it. Getting justification on our own terms.
Speaker 1:So an error in motivation. See, the way that that comes together is that what's motivating my obedience? What is what is why am I being obedient to god? Why am I taking these disciplines of the faith, or why am I taking this good and right holy behavior? What is the motivation behind that?
Speaker 1:The motivation is I have to do this for God to love me. I have to do this to have this right relationship with god. Now, I will confess these things of my justification comes, through grace, it's the work of god alone, and and I can say those those things, you know, maybe in a church setting or in a bible study setting or something like that, a conversation with someone that's a Christian. I can say those right answers, but when it comes down to how I'm living and acting and doing, I'm coming back to this motivation of this is how god loves me. This is how god shows grace to me, and this is how I obtain this salvation.
Speaker 1:It's how I live that determines if I get this or not. An example, a number of years ago, I was in Northern Ireland, with actually some of you, and talking to a guy about, the Christian faith. And he said, yeah, I, I'm not even gonna try the accent. He said he said, I, I used to be a christian a couple years ago. And I said, you used to be a Christian?
Speaker 1:And he said, yeah, I used to be, but then, started drinking and smoking again, started hanging out with bad friends, and I'm not a Christian anymore. And I said, so you're not a Christian anymore because you started doing those things? Like that's and he said, yeah. So, like, I know I'm not saved and, you know, but but this is kind of the lifestyle that that I'm kind of being pulled into by the culture. So the reason he's not justified The reason he doesn't have this right relationship with god, he's saying is because he started doing maybe unhealthy behavior that he had been doing before.
Speaker 1:See, that that that's a that's a tricky thing. In 2002, the Barna Group, they do a bunch of research stuff. The they they they were doing this this study on legalism, and they they, they polled these Christian adults and they and and this is the question, this is the question that they posed. They said, can we sum up the this is, you know, the disagree strongly disagree, disagree, agree, strongly agree. Alright?
Speaker 1:And they say, can we sum up the Christian life as trying your hardest to obey god's command. And 82% said agree and strongly agree. 82% of Christians said, you can sum up the Christian life. You can sum up what it means to be a Christian by trying your your best, trying your hardest to obey god's commands. Now, that's not a bad statement, but if that's the summary, if that is the if that's the primary message of the of the Christian message, then we're we're way off base of what the scriptures actually have to say.
Speaker 1:Now, it doesn't mean that that's a bad thing. Actually, we're gonna move into that as we look at the next error, because some of you might be getting a little tense with that. That's okay. It's a tense topic. It's very complicated.
Speaker 1:Loosen up. It's gonna be okay. Too much coffee. Alright. Most Christians, by definition, of being Christian are not legalists.
Speaker 1:Let me say that. Because, by definition, those who who profess to be, Christians and profess to be a part of the Christian faith and affirming what the bible has to say are not legalists in the in the strict sense of a legalist. Because a legalist says, I get my salvation, my justification, by doing these things, and that's how god attributes salvation to me. But just by just by nature, that's not what the Christian teaching is, and that's what most Christians, you know, they would say, I don't believe that Christ is my salvation. Okay?
Speaker 1:However, just because we're not legalists doesn't mean that we don't act and think legalistically. So these things can still be a part of the way that we're thinking and acting in an air of motivation, the why of why I do these things, why I would seek out obedience. That's the air of motivation. Why am I striving for the obedience and discipline in the faith? Is it to gain acceptance?
Speaker 1:Is it to maintain acceptance? This is how I keep this relationship strong and good. And but if I start, you know, messing up and that wonderful term backsliding and all of those things. You know, if is this to obtain acceptance with god? Is this to maintain that acceptance with god?
Speaker 1:Or is our obedience in light of the acceptance of god? Is it because of our acceptance with god? Alright. Now shifting to the other error, an error of necessity. And I would like to say, just as I as I made that point, being a legalist probably is not a problem for most Christians, just by the very confession of what it means to be a Christian, but that it's very rampant that we would think and act legalistically.
Speaker 1:I think this other era is probably within the Christian culture, probably more rampant right now. An error of necessity. And I've heard it said, and even even by me, I don't want to get too disciplined because I'll become legalistic. I don't want to get I don't want to put too many too many restraints on I gotta do these things because I don't wanna be a legalist. Now now here's the caution.
Speaker 1:If I if I really am honest with myself, and I say, you know what, I don't want to I don't want to set up, like, rigorous quiet time, or I I've got to spend this much time in prayer. I don't want to do that because I don't want to be a legalist. If I'm honest with myself, I do not run the risk of thinking that my justification before god is coming from me doing my quiet time. If I'm really honest, that's not an actual danger. And so what I'm doing is I am shrugging off discipline and devotion with this lie that I'm just so tempted to be a legalist right now.
Speaker 1:Now, I I can be tempted to act legalistically, and that is a real caution. But as far as actually becoming a legalist and thinking that this is how I'm deriving my right standing with god, that's an excuse. The excuse, I don't want to be a legalist, so we shrug off that obedience. In this effort to prevent perverting obedience, we just avoid it. And in doing so, we become a grace abuser.
Speaker 1:You see, we shrug off that it's necessary to be obedient. Just like we can have that problem and that error of of what's the motivation for my obedience, we can have this error that it's not really necessary for me to be obedient. You know, I'm justified by Christ. He's my righteousness. So it doesn't really matter what I do.
Speaker 1:And maybe I won't say it that boldly, but I will act it that boldly. And the choices that I make, not only the sin that I fall into but but also the devotion and discipline that I shrug off and just say, it's just it's not all about that. It's not all about what I do. Again, this is contentious, and I and I know that. But this is a trap.
Speaker 1:It's a trap that keeps you inert, and it and it keeps you ineffective as a disciple of Christ. When you say, I don't have to do that, my righteousness comes from Christ. But we fall into this trap. The word, often uses licentiousness or antinomianism. Antinomianism really just means against the law.
Speaker 1:The idea that I will do things my way. I I I'm not held accountable for these kinds of things, and I can just I can just go my own way because I have what matters most, which is salvation, and I'm good. And also let me say this, just because I need to I I really needed to hear this at different points in my life. Maybe today's one of them. But if you think that if you think that freedom in in Christ means drinking a beer and watching r rated movies, then we we just have no we've completely missed what what the righteousness of Christ affords us.
Speaker 1:Like, if we've just minimized it to those kinds of things, that's just so cheap. That's such a cheap freedom to even focus our attention on. And and we we do that, our our our kind of culture is is kind of drawn to that kind of petty, low view of of the greatness and graciousness of god. And so war against that in yourself, and and if need be, the people around you. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The people around you. Okay. So sometimes this can be a misuse of kind of that that Lutheran, not Lutheran like the church, but the Luther himself guy, that the Luther quote of, you know, sin boldly. Let let me just, kinda like with John 316, we're gonna keep reading, what, you know, what kind what did what did Luther say after, he said those words. Okay?
Speaker 1:He says this. If you are a preacher of mercy, do not preach an imaginary, but a true mercy. If the mercy is true, you must therefore bear the true and not imaginary sin. God does not save those who are only imaginary sinners. Be a sinner and let your sins be strong, but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ, who is the victor over sin, death, and the world.
Speaker 1:You see that? That's very much like Paul in Romans 6 where he says, Do we just keep on sinning? Like, do we just keep doing whatever we want to do? And he says, By no means. Not at all.
Speaker 1:Because if we do that, then we've just, we've missed the point altogether. And I feel like I miss the point a lot. And sometimes I don't I don't know what it is about our culture, but it kind of makes us feel like we it's adventurous to miss the point, and it's just not. It's foolish. Let let me say another really famous Luther quote.
Speaker 1:You might have heard it before, and it's one that I love. He says, in talking about works and faith, he says, it is impossible to separate works from faith as it is impossible to separate heat and light from fire. And this is Luther, who I I don't really think Oh, I don't I don't have the guts to to call him out on his, wrong view of grace. And so, you know, he he he was a champion of it's not by works that were saved, but he also held so fast to this biblical idea that we can't separate these works and this faith. We can't separate these things out.
Speaker 1:Because, naturally, he even he even goes on in one one letter to say, we don't even ask the questions of if we're supposed to be obedient. Faith doesn't ask the question, should I be obedient? It's already gone forth and started doing that work of obedience before the question is even asked. Before we say, oh, I'm just afraid that if I start doing these things, I'll be so works based in my legalist thinking and no. We we run headlong into that obedience because that's what the freedom of Christ has afforded us.
Speaker 1:And that's that's what we're going to be transitioning into, with Josh here in in just a minute. But but I want to kind of close some of my time with this. So how do we know which error we're we're making? How do we know when they're happening? And I like to offer 2 things.
Speaker 1:1, if if you see apathy in your life and in your faith, if you see an apathetic view of the disciplines and devotion, if you see apathy towards just not I'm I'm not saying that one Sunday where you're like, I just don't want to go to church today. I'm I'm not talking about when you just say, like, I'm just tired and I don't wanna go to home group. I don't wanna I don't wanna participate in these things. Or it's one Sunday and you just say, I don't I don't feel like singing these words out. I I'm not saying those kinds of of seasons of life.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about if you feel apathy towards these things, it's probably that air of necessity. And if you feel pride, pride probably that comes up when you look at other people not living the way you think they should be living, and you're so proud of yourself because you just live so awesomely, it's it's probably that air on motivation. Why then why why are you doing these things? Why are you being so obedient? Is this the, you know, a faith based obsessive compulsive disorder?
Speaker 1:I just do these things because it's what I do, and this is how I do these things. And if I don't do these things, well, what happens? I don't know, but I just have to do them. We have these bins, and and we have to be diligent in kind of weighing out. Because here's the deal.
Speaker 1:In these things, if you are a person who who claims to be a disciple of Christ, these issues, these errors, these this this tension is inside of you. If you confess these things to be true about who Christ is and and who the scriptures reveal god to be and who the scriptures tell you you are, if you believe that, then then these these things are inside of you. The this tension is there, and and we have to be honest about that. We have to be intellectually honest about that. We have to be emotionally honest about that, and and we have to to to share those things.
Speaker 1:So we'll we'll probably, get into a couple more of these, these issues in the q and a time, so I'm gonna save some of that. But like, like any good legalist would say, well, what do we do? Tell them, okay, so what do I do now? And to answer that is Josh. So So
Speaker 2:Jeff, hands it off to me and says, what do we do? What do we do from here? Where do we go? And hopefully, I'm gonna have some encouraging news. If you've identified with any of what Jeff's been saying, you're probably wondering, well, where do we go?
Speaker 2:But the the one concern I have and we're going to be really careful of, especially for the one who struggles with legalistic tendencies is to fight fire with fire. We can easily say, I don't want to be a legalist. So let me give you 10 steps of how not to be a legalist, and and that's just naturally our nature. We want to do that. And so, that's the first thing.
Speaker 2:Let's not let's not I'm not going to say go do these things. So so where do we go? Where do we go if everything you've been holding on to kind of just crumbles? You're you're holding on to this mentality of, I've got to work to earn my good relationship with God. But where do you go?
Speaker 2:And and I say we need to turn to Scripture and see what it says. Where's the only authoritative word for us as Christians? God's word for us and to us, and that's Scripture. So as I go through this I'm going to refer to a few passages that we're going to look at, and and that's going to be our constant that we keep coming back to as we as we work through this is, how do we live? And in in the lens of Christian freedom, because we do have freedom to live into what Christ has done for us.
Speaker 2:And I'm gonna give a simple illustration that helped me a lot. I one of my, just teachers when I was in college told this example to me. And it's it's real simple, but I keep thinking about it over and over again when in my life I struggle with things like legalism or grace abuse. And it's the illustration of a ladder. Like I picture this guy, like I want to say a comic strip, standing there with the this huge ladder just standing straight up going up into heaven.
Speaker 2:And obviously, it goes up to God. And it it what we do is we live our Christian life, like that's what our Christian life's about is climbing this ladder. We climb this ladder by the good things we do. So whenever we do something really good, follow one of the laws of of the Bible, we climb up one rung. We keep doing it day by day, day by day, and see how many we can get up.
Speaker 2:But obviously, when we sin, when we screw up, when when when things happen, we fall down probably twice as many rungs as you've climbed up that day. And you feel like your Christian life is this constant ebb and flow of up and down, of of I'm really happy. I'm doing really good, which probably comes out of your pride. Or I'm doing really bad, and that's also like, I didn't do as good as I wanted to do. So so picture this this ladder, but but what I'd like to argue is that's not what our Christian life is like.
Speaker 2:If we think that it's about us and our doing, we're ignoring completely the cross, and so the sufficiency of that, and the freedom that we have from what Christ did on the cross. So in that illustration, just picture Christ coming into the scene. Because typically I bet when you're thinking of the ladder, you're not thinking of where Christ is in the picture anywhere. You're you're thinking of yourself climbing this ladder. So picture Christ coming to the scene and laying that ladder down on the ground.
Speaker 2:It's the work of Christ alone. It's not something you've done for yourself. It's what Christ did. And when he lays this ladder down, it it's a kind of silly illustration, but it almost looks like a train track. Like, no longer does it look like this tall ladder going to who knows where.
Speaker 2:Instead, it's this this train track that you jump on board, not because of anything you did, but because Christ laid it down. And then you live like someone who has had that happen for them. And I think that that's what Christian freedom is like. It's a lot more of a response to what God did for us rather than what we are trying to do day in day out. But going into another thing is that, like, so often the word freedom has been avoided throughout maybe your time in church, maybe throughout the world.
Speaker 2:It's it's it's about what can you do. And I think back to my youth group experience, I don't know if any of you had a similar experience to me, but I the job I think of most youth group leaders is more to make sure kids don't get pregnant or start doing drugs than it is about anything else. And so I know it's a caricature, but the the success or failure of a youth minister is if kids get pregnant or not. And so they, so so my youth group experience was similar. You teach things that keep kids from doing those things.
Speaker 2:Well, the word freedom is dangerous in that setting because if you hear freedom, it's like, okay. I can do what I want to do. And so we avoid that our we have had times in in our church experiences where people have avoided using freedom or grace because they don't understand what that means. And the danger in not using the word freedom or grace is that you start using phrases like, these are the things you should do. These are the things you shouldn't do.
Speaker 2:And you start getting gaining these rules and regulations, and its momentum builds. And by the time you get to this point in your life where you are now, you've probably got so many lists of things that you should do day in and day out that you don't even know where to start in the morning. And not only do you have this list of do's and don'ts that are very, like, biblical kind of ideas, like quiet time and time in scripture prayer, you also start elevating, I still remember trying to, like, give away all my CDs that were secular to a friend. Or I had a friend who wasn't a Christian. I said, hey, I can't hang out with you anymore.
Speaker 2:What? You don't go to my youth group. You know? And so I started you start elevating to these things that you think will go even beyond what scripture says. And when you get to that point, you're just you're making up new rules.
Speaker 2:So it's not only that you wanna follow the rules of scripture to a tee, you start making up your new rules. So we need to avoid doing that. We need to avoid having these wrong motives trying to climb this ladder, and we need to focus on freedom for that very reason. And so there's gonna be 2 aspects of freedom I'm gonna focus on tonight. And if you don't really walk away with anything else I say, if you kind of walk away with these two aspects, I think you might have some structure to answer the question, where do we go from here?
Speaker 2:And so with what Christ did for us on the cross, we obviously have been made free. We've been made righteous. And so what we've been what we get out of that is we get freedom from something, and we get freedom for something. So from and for, freedom from. What do we get freedom from?
Speaker 2:Well, we get freedom from that the ladder illustration, climbing the ladder. We get freedom from the law that was above us. We get freedom from having to try to earn this righteousness, which if you look at the Pharisees, it would never work anyway. But we get freedom from that because of what Christ did. And then we also get freedom for something because you might be a legalist and and you're okay with, okay, I'm free from or you might be a a grace bezier, you're okay with I'm free from, but then you don't want to go anywhere from there.
Speaker 2:So that's why you have to focus on this other aspect of freedom, which is freedom for, and that's freedom for living the sanctified life. There are so many passage in scripture that talk about discipline, talk about discipleship, talk about obedience. And if you think that this freedom means to ignore those, then you're not understanding what Christian freedom is really about. There's these two aspects, and we really need to check that we're we're focusing on both. Because I would probably think that in our lives, especially for me, when I struggle with either of these, because day in day out, I struggle with either legalism or grace abuse, that in that, I'm probably falling on one of these sides of not thinking about what I'm free from or what I'm free for.
Speaker 2:So I'm gonna start with what freedom from. And if you have your Bibles, I'm gonna be going through Galatians 5. So if you wanna start turning there, I'll read it in just a minute. I said, that's Galatians 5. And and in this, this is the the heading of freedom from.
Speaker 2:What are we free from? We are free from trying to earn our own justification under the law. We're free from trying to earn a right standing with God. And when we neglect this, and we get back on that ladder, we are neglecting the sufficiency of the cross. It's almost like we have to add something to what Christ did, or that we owe so much back to God that we have this kind of debtor's ethic.
Speaker 2:We we've got to pay back as much as we can, and and that mentality even leads to something like like purgatory, where it's like, okay. I've done I've paid back as much as I can, but there's still a little bit left that I've gotta pay. We need to avoid those. And so I'm gonna read Galatians 5 verses 1 through 4, and and we'll look at it. Starting with verse 1, it says, for freedom, Christ has set us free.
Speaker 2:Stand firm, therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. Look, I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision, that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law. You have fallen away from grace.
Speaker 2:Well the first thing, all of this this is there's good news in this. We have freedom. If you read this first line for freedom, Christ has set us free. This is great news for for the legalist, the grace abuser, for everybody. We have this freedom that probably we go through most of our days without thinking about.
Speaker 2:But if we did, it would change how we did everything. So this freedom is really important for us to think about. But in the first in that first verse, who is doing the freeing? Getting that in your head that it is Christ who has set us free, and not you, not me, not anything we've done. That's so important for understanding what we've been free from, because if we don't get that, we once again will keep trying.
Speaker 2:We will keep falling into the same pattern the Pharisees fell into. And so we are free, because of what Christ has done, and we need to cherish that. We need to stand firm in that. We need to be obedient because of that. And in this passage, we go farther.
Speaker 2:It says, stand firm therefore. This therefore is saying that there's something that needs to happen because we have this freedom in Christ, Christ, and that's that we need to stand firm. There's a response we have. There's obedience. There's discipleship that follows immediately after the freedom that Christ has done for us.
Speaker 2:And do not submit again to the yoke of slavery. So there's 2 options here. There's this freedom or there's this yoke of slavery. There's falling back underneath the law. The you have the only way you can have freedom from something is if you were once a slave to it or there's a potential of slavery.
Speaker 2:So, to be freed from that you're no longer under it, and so don't return. And that's what Galatians is about is that there's these Christians who are wanting to fall back under these laws that they were once under, and circumcision is one of them. We see it right here. And we see it in the beginning of the of the book when they're trying to get Titus to be circumcised. And Paul says, no.
Speaker 2:You can't fall back under that law which you once were under. And so what do we do? So so so how do we apply this to us today? Well, probably none of you are waking up in the morning worrying whether you're or not. It's not a question that we think about.
Speaker 2:It's not relevant. It's a first century question. But you might be thinking on a Sunday, did I wake up and go to church? Or you might be thinking, after a week of not spending time in scripture, how in the world does God love me anymore? You know, I mean, like, we we obviously jump to extremes always.
Speaker 2:It's never these little things. It's it's like the worst thing in the world can happen if you didn't do one of your things on your checklist. And so so so what does this mean for us is is that we need to not go back to these laws of doing, doing, doing the Christian mentality to earn a right standing with God, because that'd be the same thing as the Galatian church reverting back to circumcision. And ultimately, we see in verse 4, what can the result be of falling back into this law? Falling back into the slavery which you once came from.
Speaker 2:It says, and if you would be severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law, you have fallen away from grace. And this is that person that Jeff talked about, that legalist who is so far legalist that they really do think that they earn their complete justification apart from the cross, and out of completely what they do. And what's the result of that? Being cut completely off from Christ and falling away from grace. So so to fall under this slavery is just a little bit of a taste of that what could happen.
Speaker 2:And and further in Galatians, Paul says, a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Jeff said, we're probably not in here truly a 100 full a 100% full blown legalist, but we have that leaven in us that we have to keep fighting against, fighting against, fighting against, because the leaven can can just contaminate everything. We can become these people that are so contaminated by our legalistic pursuits that that's where we end up. So I want us to just really on This is the freedom from section. We need to really get in our heads that we are free from the slavery to the law.
Speaker 2:We no longer are under this law that we once were, and we can't fall back into that. We can't try to justify ourselves by works. And we need to struggle and fight against this, because this is in complete opposition to what Christ has accomplished for us. And and and to not realize that means that you'll just keep falling into it over and over and over again. And ultimately, we need to remember that this is worth celebrating.
Speaker 2:I know that sounds heavy, but it's celebrating that we are free. We we are free from climbing that ladder. We're free from working. We're free from the oppression that we once were under. So so remember this component of freedom as you think about the topics of legalism and grace abuse, is there's freedom in this.
Speaker 2:This is I'm talking to a room full of people who are free, and that's so great, but we need to live like that. We need to see what the other side of the coin is. And that's gonna be the freedom for, and that's I'm moving into that part of the the section right now. And if you want to start turning to Romans 6, that's gonna be the passage we'll look at for freedom 4. But what are we free for?
Speaker 2:We are free for sanctified obedient living. We're free for everything that we're called to be in Scripture, but we're free to do that now with with freedom. We're free to do it without trying to earn something and get something out of it. It's more of a response than it ever was before. Because if we're we're struggling with legalism, it's probably not as a response to something.
Speaker 2:It's out of your own motivation. But if we grasp what we are free from, this slavery to the law, it's gonna motivate. It's gonna lead to what we're free for, this sanctified living. And that makes us think about so so what for both sides of the the coin, there's there's the Legalist, there's the Grace Abuser. How does this speak to them?
Speaker 2:That we are called to be free for sanctified living. Well, for the Legalist, it's a call to check your motivation. That's one of the things Jeff said earlier, because really, a lot of the things you were taught in youth group are great. You are supposed to follow these laws. These are regulations that are good for you as a Christian.
Speaker 2:Many of the things that we want to do day in day out are good and should be done, but what's your motivation? So as you leave here tonight, and you start thinking about where does where do I fall into legalistic category, start thinking about what's your motivation for the actions that you're doing, or the motivation for your guilt for not doing those actions. Because to misunderstand this motivation is to do them for the wrong reasons, or to, like, to think that these youth group things are bad, but they're not bad. It's just the motive of why you're doing them. Now for the grace abuser, there's this other side, is that there is a call to action.
Speaker 2:You are free from something, for something. You are free for action. And when we are living a apathetic, grace abusing kind of life, we're not we're not be participating in that which we've been called to do. We're not living like Christ. And in this confusion, I think here's where the confusion lies for many us, for my self, who I'm I'm speaking to right now.
Speaker 2:Why do we end up on the apathetic kind of side of things a lot of times? I think it's because we think that the opposite of legalism is doing nothing. We think that legalism is this set of rules, and you're doing it for the wrong reason. So the opposite is doing nothing, and that leads to doing nothing. You think that that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 2:But in reality, the opposite of legalism is doing the right the same things with the right motive, what I just said earlier. So we need to not go down this wrong path, this misunderstanding. I think the only way we can sit comfortably in apathy is to convince ourself that it's a good thing because I'm not being legalist. I'm free. I'm accepting what Christ did on the cross.
Speaker 2:So I'm doing nothing. And that's a misunderstanding of freedom. It's the understanding of the free for, but not the or the free from, but not the free for. So so let's make this clear. Christian freedom is not about the ability to be disobedient.
Speaker 2:It's not about saying those things aren't for me anymore. It's about living in response to them, and that's what we're gonna look at in Romans 6. We're going to look at 15 to 22. I'm going to read it. It's going to take just a second, but we'll see it speak to the people who struggle with that.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to start in verse 15. It says, what then are we to sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? By no means. Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slave of the one who you obey. Either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness.
Speaker 2:But thanks be to God that you, who were once slaves of sin, have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and having been set free from sin have become slaves of righteousness. I'm speaking in human terms because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity, to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. When you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. But what fruit were you getting at the time from the things of which you were now ashamed?
Speaker 2:The end of those things is death. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and its end, eternal life. So, the first verse in this one really speaks to those who struggle with grace abuse, those who struggle with apathy. Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means.
Speaker 2:If you if we're saying scripture is our authority, and you struggle with that, that's right. That's it. That that's your answer. You are not to go on sinning so that grace may increase. So so what happens after that point?
Speaker 2:Well, we see another dichotomy between you are a slave of one thing. You once were a slave to sin, which this says, which leads to death. Or you're a slave to obedience, which leads to righteousness. These are two things. These are two options.
Speaker 2:Slave to to sin or slave to obedience. But what we wanna do is we wanna say, okay, I get we were slave to sin. Yes. That's that makes sense. If I'm gonna understand justification right, I'm gonna understand what Christ did for me, and I'm gonna understand that he freed me from that.
Speaker 2:But in our our our understanding of freedom and slavery, what we want is a third option. Not you can either be a slave to sin, or you can be a slave to righteousness. We want to be a slave to our own nature. We want freedom to mean, okay, I can be this third option, and do whatever I want to do. And and when you think about some of the times the when we're living our lives out, that's how we feel.
Speaker 2:We feel like it's about us, and it's about what we can do for ourselves, and that infiltrates all the way we live out our Christian life. But this passage says that's not the case. There's 2 options for slavery. 1 is that you can be a slave to sin, One is that you can be a slave to righteousness. And you don't just get freedom from, you do have to have a master.
Speaker 2:So you you have to have this freedom for something. It's either gonna be you're under sin and you're gonna live towards death, or you're gonna be under obedience, you're gonna live for righteousness. Therefore, this is a challenge. This is a call to each of you sitting here today, is that you are challenged to live for righteousness. Is that how you would describe today?
Speaker 2:Is that how you describe your week? It's not, oh, you're bad, and you're falling down the ladder because you haven't done it. It's, do you see that you're free? Y'all are free right now. So let's live like it.
Speaker 2:Let's live like free people who have moved from slavery to sin, to slavery to righteousness. It's all about motivation. It's about, okay, I I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna set up rules and regulations to live this way. I'm gonna live as a response to what Christ has done for us. Do you see that how that elevates the cross?
Speaker 2:That elevates the cross to be your motivation. It's not about you, it's about what Christ did. Have become slaves of righteousness. So what does Paul do when he realizes what we were just talking about? He praises God.
Speaker 2:This leads to worship. So so we might have in the first half of this talk identified with these behaviors that we feel pretty bad about. Like, you know, that we identify with, I need to fix those things, those are bad. But luckily, we have freedom. And in freedom we have reason for worship.
Speaker 2:So when we go out tonight and we're saying our prayers, why are you saying your prayers? Are you saying those you have to, or in response to what God has done for you? And when you show up at church on Sundays, why are you worshiping? Is it just songs that you've learned to emotionally connect with something, or is it out of response for the from the freedom that you have? We need to be thinking about how this leads us to praise.
Speaker 2:And if it doesn't, you probably don't, and I probably don't. I'm talking to myself. You probably don't understand what you were a slave to before, because if you don't understand what you're slave from before, there's not as much reason to praise and worship. But if you really grasp the sin and that and death that you were a slave to before Christ came in and saved you, you can't help but praise. This is a proper motivation for praise.
Speaker 2:It's not a checklist anymore. It's it's why you praise. And then in the end of this passage we see that you present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. And in the last verse, verse 22, it says, but now that you have been freed from sin and become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification, and it's end eternal life. So formally, Christ stepped in and gave you the ability to be a slave to righteousness.
Speaker 2:So now, you're free to be a slave to God, to righteousness, which leads to our sanctification. And this word, leads, is really important for us, because the answer is not gonna come tonight or tomorrow. It's not like we've identified it. We've said, okay, focus on freedom, and then we're all gonna know how to live our lives perfectly. And and and so this is a prog process.
Speaker 2:It's going to lead to your sanctification. You are free from trying to earn your unrighteousness, but you also are free for living into your sanctification, which is a process. It's gonna take time, it's gonna take energy, and you're eventually gonna get there. So talking to the the side of the grace abusing, apathetic type of person, you can't read this passage and stay where you were. Maybe you're doing great in certain areas of your life, but there's certain areas where you're still apathetic.
Speaker 2:Look for those areas, Think about those areas. Identify them and ask, am I really thinking about my freedom in Christ as I'm being apathetic there? Because I think that that will be the cure rather than a 10 step process, thinking about our Christian freedom will get us there. So I've got 3 little kind of challenges or things to think about as I as I leave. 1 is that our freedom is great news.
Speaker 2:Let's not forget that. Sometimes, this this this feels like another set of things we have to do. Don't let it be that. Let this be great news, reason for praise, and a reason to look at the cross throughout your day, rather than having to have, like, some chain with a cross on it or a tattoo to think about the cross during your day. If you're thinking about your freedom, it's gonna be natural.
Speaker 2:You're gonna think about the cross. You're gonna think about what Christ did for you all day long. Then we need to remember number 2, the difference between justification and sanctification. They're both things that Christ does for us and in us, but they're different in that we have justification. We can't earn that on our own, but that also doesn't mean that we don't do one or the other.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that we've already got justification, so we don't have to do sanctification. Or it doesn't say, oh, I can do this sanctification thing, and it's gonna earn me this justification. Don't get them confused. Keep them separated, but really close together, just like the freedom for from and for. And finally, we need to obey the call to the discipleship.
Speaker 2:That's that's it. Like, we need to be a people who are people who endure, people who go through our days really working hard at discipleship and obedience, and spend time in the word, and all these things that we can create legalistic, I guess, regulations over them. We do them, but we do them in the right for the right reasons. And it's ultimately all for the glory of you're thinking about God. You're thinking about Christ, and you're thinking about God's glory.
Speaker 2:Because as we start being these people, as a community, if we start being these people, we will be a light in the darkness. We'll be the salt. We'll be As a church, we'll be a community on a hill, and we can do that. So so just be thinking about those things as you're going through your day. And if you can just walk away with this freedom ideas, your motivation, I think it could be really helpful.
Speaker 1:Alright. So I figured that a really good way to close this section would be for me to read the lyrics from a song I heard on the radio. So, I'm driving my wife's car right now, and she has different presets, and they're terrible. Oops. I mean, they're not that terrible, but they're they're not they're not what I would call good.
Speaker 1:And so Is she gonna hear this? No. She's not gonna listen to this. She hears me enough. But I heard this on the radio and I just thought I'd share it with you.
Speaker 1:This is gonna be my best William Shatner, reading lyrics to a song that I shouldn't read lyrics from. So here here we go. I was stupid, really stupid. Something told me deep inside I better not do it. What a dummy.
Speaker 1:Such a dummy. To let some mess I shouldn't do, take it from me. Girl, if I could take it back, I'd take it back. I'd be such an angel, you'd think that me and Jesus were cool. Just like that, everything would be good.
Speaker 1:Girl, I know what I should've done. I should've walked away at that moment that I saw her coming. But I blew it. I really blew it, and I lost the only girl I love. Chorus.
Speaker 1:Dear god, if you're listening now, I need you to do a thing for me. Okay. See my baby? She's she's gotten up and she's walked out. I need you to bring her back to me.
Speaker 1:I know that what I did was wrong, it was, I'm guilty of sin. But dear god, if you're listening now, down here dying, begging, crying, somebody needs to pray for me. Dear god, if you're listening. So then then the bridge. I'm making this promise to you, this is the prayer, I'm making this promise to you.
Speaker 1:If you can do this one thing for me, I'd be the man you want, I'll be the man that you need. Church every Sunday, prayers every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Taking Saturday off. Just bring my baby back to me. Okay.
Speaker 1:So a humorous take, but the problem is that we do that. I mean, this guy, like, he's he's writing a song and it's it's it's poppy and it's catchy and it's, I'm sure, making him 1,000,000 of dollars. But but the thought process that's happening there is something that we do where we say, okay. I'm in this tough situation. God, I need you to do something about it.
Speaker 1:And if you do, if you follow through on this, if you do these things that I need, then, oh, you're gonna be blown away. I'm gonna do all these things for you. I'm gonna be the man that you want me to be. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna do all those things that you want. I I just need you to kinda we we just need to get this transaction going.
Speaker 1:You see, it's not the mansion of happiness. It's it's not this I'm gonna I'm gonna do some good things, and maybe I can persuade you into doing some good things back for me. I'd like for I'd like for you to hear this this this one thing, and whether you've been listening the whole time or not, but if you just if you want to consider consider this. The message of the Christian faith is that there's not a challenge to you. God has done this himself.
Speaker 1:He's taken on the work you could not do, not on your very best day. If you took your entire life in the best day where you didn't do anything stupid, which was probably the day that you spent by yourself maybe, like where you didn't come in contact with other humans and, you know, get angry and say things. But but even on your very, very best day, it wasn't good enough, and you're never going to be good enough. And to that end, there is no challenge because you can't do it. But he has.
Speaker 1:But God, being rich in mercy, with a great love with which he loved you, has poured out his grace and mercy through his son to redeem you, that which you could not do. It's by grace that you've been saved, not by works so that none of us can say, look at me. It's by his grace. But not only that, that that grace has a direction. A direction that we are His workmanship.
Speaker 1:In fact, the Greek there is we are his poetry, his creation. We are created to do good works in Christ Jesus. Good works that god prepared beforehand, before we even knew about them, that we might walk in them, that we might live in those good works. And that is challenging. And we don't shirk from that.
Speaker 1:We don't become apathetic to that, we live into it with the grace and mercy of God. So we're gonna take a break, get some drinks, go to the bathroom. Okay. So the question is how do you go about if you see that your motivation is is a bad motivation or a negative motivation, how do you go about changing that? That's a really great question because just like changing our minds and saying, oh, I wanna have good motivation, and Garth and I were talking about this actually during the break, it that doesn't mean that all of a sudden, like, you just have awesome motivation and and you're just set from here on out.
Speaker 1:It is it is both, a really disciplined work and a really passive, receiving. You know, it's both it's us it's us leaning in primarily into the scriptures and in prayer. This is something that we're asking the spirit to do, to change our motivations, to change the you know, this is, what Paul talks about is the the metamorphosis of our minds, the the transformation of our very thinking, that we're not just trying to change the behavior on the outside and somehow affect the inside, but that the very way that we think about everything has to be transformed by the will of god, and that in doing that, god, you know, is continuing to bring us into that freedom that Christ has purchased for us, that we would then think rightly about these things. Which could mean, and Josh hit on this, this could mean that we are going back to the same actions, like the same activities, the same we're going back to the same work that we were doing before. But this time, with the purpose of the gospel, with the purpose of devotion and worship to god.
Speaker 1:And so as we go back to even some of those same tasks of discipline, we come at it now with this renewed mind that is that is, a process. This is it's this sanctified thinking that god brings about in us through his grace, but that we do bear a responsibility in that, in that work. And that's we don't we don't, shoulder it on our own because that would be a heavy burden, and Jesus has has not promised us a heavy burden in those things. But it is something that we are active in participating in that we would prayerfully and end in the scriptures. You know, John Owen famously said, like, if you're not putting sin to death, yeah, if you're not actively putting sin to death, it's putting you to death.
Speaker 1:And so we we have this active work, you know, where in in in Romans, Paul is telling them, you know, you need to be putting sin to death in your flesh. And the way that he says this is the word of God. This happens by by the the truth of God working its way in, by the work of the spirit as we meditate on god's word, as we go to it as authoritative, as we prayerfully search the scriptures that the spirit transforms our mind and our thinking, and in that, kind of renews what our motivation might be. That doesn't mean that it's, it's like perfect from there on out that we don't falter in our thinking or that we don't follow the different passions and errors, but that we would be in diligent pursuit of this renewing of the mind, this transformation of the mind. Part of that is in that, you know, offering up ourselves as this living sacrifice.
Speaker 1:That's a continual offering up and just like that's a continual work that we would have our minds transformed. Did you feel like that answered your question all right? Martin? 1st. Okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. I have to restate your question. Gosh. Can I get a transcript or something? Did you does anybody how do we avoid fall how how do we live a life of thankfulness to god without falling into, a quote, legalistic perspective of thankfulness?
Speaker 1:Is that acceptable? Do you sign off on that? Okay. First off, back to number 1. I don't think that's possible to develop a legalistic perspective of thankfulness in that, and by nature, an an earnest thankfulness is not about you.
Speaker 1:It's not about your pride and what your we we can't be selfish with that thankfulness. I don't think that true thankfulness does that. Now if we make thankfulness a particular activity and we start doing that kind of obsessive compulsive activity that is, vacant of any genuine thankfulness. Thankfulness requires a number of different variables. 1, acknowledging need, acknowledging, what has come to fulfill that need that's out of our own control, and then we respond with being thankful that this has happened to us.
Speaker 1:We're passive in receiving something and then then we are active in offering back that thankfulness for that thing. If all of those things are actually happening and they're legitimate then what we're doing, I think is far too away from that prideful thinking of legalism, that kind of trap of legalism. So earnest thankfulness, I don't think we run that risk. So what I would say to the person that wants to encourage and develop and cultivate a thankful heart, I'd say prayer and searching the scriptures. When we are reminded of who God is, first and foremost, who he is, then remarkably who he has called us to be, and in that, keeping in view who we were, all these things kind of playing off of each other, it builds up a right thinking thankfulness.
Speaker 1:Because it's in harmony with the truth revealed in scripture, it's it's in harmony with that, it's it's earnest and genuine in my heart as I respond to it. And then as I express that thankfulness, it's just it can't be it can't be biblical and be about me ultimately. It has to do with me, of course, but it can't be about me and be biblical. I have to yield because, you know, there's a pervasive lie out there that the scriptures are about us. Yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, that the Bible is the story that's about me. Thank God it's not. It's not just a user's manual. It's not these kinds of things. It is a book that is revealing the glory, the greatness, and the graciousness of God.
Speaker 1:And when we submit ourselves under its authority and we listen to the spirit instructing our hearts, then that thankfulness is just by its nature genuine, earnest, and God exalting. So I don't think that we have to be timid thinking that we might become legalistic somehow. I think altogether that principle of well, I might maybe I shouldn't blank because I'll become legalistic about it. That's just a lie. Like I just don't I don't think that that needs to be a working checklist in our thinking.
Speaker 1:I think we need to square it with is this earnestly seeking to know and glorify the Triune God? If that's primary then I say we just rush towards that obedience, rush towards that and not just be bound up with fear that I might do this the wrong way. You know, it's kind of like if I'm trying to think of a way to do something nice for Jess, my wife, if I'm sitting there thinking, But what would she like most? And really what is my motivation for doing this? And I'm just trying to be really cautious.
Speaker 1:I just wanna do the right thing to show her that I love her. You know what I would just say if I was counseling that person like in a marital thing? I would just say just do something. Do anything. Even if it's, you know, you bought a Cracker Jack box and you got to the bottom and whatever came out, you know, it's a stick on tattoo and you give it to him.
Speaker 1:Do something. Express what you feel and the affections that you have for this person. Express it and you'll grow in being able to do that better probably after they say, why did you just give me a stick on tattoo? But do something. Start moving in that direction, and and trust that the the person that cares more about you not being a legalist is Jesus.
Speaker 1:He cares more about that than you do. And so when you are trusting into him and you are you are longing primarily for him and for his will for your life, he cares much more about you living and walking in freedom than you do in this very moment. I think that's a really hopeful, hopeful thing. Anything you wanna yell about that? Sorry.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna back off. Martin, you're just so far away. I felt like I really had to project. Thanks. Yep.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, the question had to do with what about with children and how we kind of by nature almost set up this reward system of do good, get good, do bad, get bad. And so when all of a sudden Jesus comes along and he says, you've done bad, you get good, and, you know, your head just explodes. You're like, I don't know what this is. First off, I have a one and a half year old and she's just perfect.
Speaker 1:She's just never done anything wrong. No, absolutely not. She she showed us very quickly that I'm her dad and, and so she behaves like me already in different ways. I know that she's sinful. What I would say is that you have to I would encourage looking for opportunities to go against that grain.
Speaker 1:To say you don't deserve something good here. You deserve some kind of punishment. And I'm actually going to show you grace in this. And I'm going to describe it, and I'm going to I'm going to say, you know what? You haven't been you haven't been behaving rightly.
Speaker 1:And when I said if you don't behave well, we're not going to go do blank, and looking for opportunities to shake that up. Now that doesn't mean that you're inconsistent with discipline because that can be just as problematic, but when a child can engage in those things I think that you can talk through the surprising, unreasonable grace. Why it doesn't make sense. This is another thing that Garth and I were talking about at the break that the concept that law comes really natural to the way that we think. Even people that aren't Christians, like they'll say, hey, that's wrong.
Speaker 1:I don't and I don't like being wronged or, you know, you need to be just to them or something like that. So those kinds of concepts are really out there. What's really foreign is gospel grace, like where someone steps in and says, you have done me wrong, and I'm going to I'm gonna take that punishment on myself, and I'm gonna give you good. And I think we have to look for in dealing with children and and young people altogether, like and just with adults. We have to look for opportunities just like Thomas preached on Sunday.
Speaker 1:If you weren't there on Sunday night, rccbirmingham.org, download the sermon from last Sunday. Thomas Ritchie preached and he preached on the concept of why not rather be wronged. We should look for gospel opportunities to be wronged and to show grace. And for the only purpose in that response to be pointing to the gospel, pointing to the cross, the sufficiency of the cross where the only reasonable thing is this unreasonable grace. Look for opportunities like that.
Speaker 1:Do you want to say anything to that? Yes. Just quickly. Children are also administers of grants, and so unlike Jeff, you don't you're not going to parent perfectly. That's true.
Speaker 1:Ask your children. I don't care perfectly, Jeff, because I'm gonna have to ask my children for forgiveness, Yeah. Just to project that a little bit louder, that asking forgiveness from your children when you have done wrong, being able to be an example of, you know, humble repentance and showing that is another opportunity to point to that unreasonable grace of God for for kids to see it. Question.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to think of how to phrase this in a way that's not super personal and I don't know how to, so I'm just gonna
Speaker 1:Okay. Do you want everyone in here to cover their ears except for me No. And Josh? No. Because we could do that.
Speaker 3:Because I don't know if other people have read this. Like, I have amazing grandparents who actually helped lead me to faith. They've come out of a background where there is this list of sins that if if you knew these things, you are clearly not a Christian. You know, like, women wearing pants to church and drinking and things like that that are not, I think, what we see in scripture. But kind of came out of that legacy of faith, and I have been a recovering perfectionist for good 10, 12 years now.
Speaker 3:But now in our relationship, I struggle over how to love them along in that the understanding that I have now of the freedom that we have in Christ, and the way I live in our community of faith, when like, I would never tell them we have champagne on, you know, at church. Like, they would completely come, I believe. So I think we all have people in our lives who maybe are still in that place. Yeah. Especially somebody who's I mean, talking about, like, 60 years of faith believing, like, this is the way God these things.
Speaker 3:How do you invite them along in this kind of understanding?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the question is someone, a friend or a family member or someone that you care about who is kind of entrenched in in the legalistic thinking and and projecting that onto others as well and using that as a litmus test to judge their faith. First off, in any situation like that, to not be loving and gracious to them kind of undermines the whole other thinking, you know. That's where we have to begin is being loving, patient, gracious to them and recognizing that we do not come to clear thinking through our own cognitive, reasonable ascent. We have different understandings.
Speaker 1:We have clarity of understanding in different things because of the spirit in the scriptures. You didn't just achieve a better understanding, you were gifted a knowledge of God's graciousness, okay? And then you bear that graciousness as you deal with those who bristle at some of those freedoms. Also recognizing that sometimes weaker brothers can be much older. They don't have to be young and sometimes they can have some really solid strengths and have aspects of weakness.
Speaker 1:And what we're called to is is a real patient love with them. A patient love that speaks truth in love when opportunities are there and that kind of clarity can be there to be a messenger of that freedom. And some things can also just be generational shifts and acceptability, and so we have to be cautious with that too and respect those who have who have, given us this legacy of faith or this heritage of faith in the family. And so just because they might have certain issues that kind of they get uptight about perhaps, doesn't mean that their trust and faith in Christ isn't deep and abiding and serious, but at first I would just really stick with love and patience and grace and extending that to them. And where there is an opportunity to address those things, which it might not be from their granddaughter, I don't know.
Speaker 1:But when those opportunities are there, you speak clearly, that you're able to give an account for the faith, you're able to give a clear reasoning for, why you live obediently to Jesus in the way that you do, There are some contexts where being more direct and maybe maybe aggressive is a bad word, but, like, but being more confrontational with that can be necessary and fruitful. But I think that we have to be really cautious in listening to the spirit when those situations are really appropriate. Because just like you you receive this as a liberating truth of the gospel, we have to, 1st and foremost, realize that we're not just the, we're not the ones, primarily charged to do that for people. It's, that's the work of the spirit. And so we pray for them, we love them, and wherever possible we, we direct them to, the true liberation of the gospel.
Speaker 1:Do you have anything to say about that? Okay. Was that, did that help, was that in any way what you're Okay. Yes. And that guilt based theology, the guilt guilt teaching, really sets people up for a tremendous amount of shame and shame that kind of positions people to be, imprisoned in that shame and they don't want to be vulnerable with other people and they don't want they don't wanna share their successes or their failures because they just wanna be, contained within themselves.
Speaker 1:And so that's where, the necessity of of the Christian community really comes in, is because that's where that's where discipline isn't just a smack on the wrist. Discipline is also helping people live out their freedom. And and the the the kind of judging culture and all that really, it, it isolates people. And in in isolating them and insulating them, and they just kind of, they move off to themselves, and as an island, they they miss out on that Christian community. And so as that discipline should be something that we, as as the the body of Christ, as the the universal church of God, that we, as we live and breathe within the church, that in community, we're able to encourage one another in discipline, which is both, you know, devotion and that kind of obedience, but it's it's not just the, get down and do.
Speaker 1:It's also the liberation. It's to be disciplined in our freedom as well. And so to, to really see that necessity of the Christian community to the individual, so that they don't live in that shame and they don't they don't they don't bear that shame and guilt and isolate themselves from the church, which happens quite a bit. Any other questions? Yes.
Speaker 4:How would you approach this kind of legalistic scenario when you're talking about the perception of a non believer? So they either see, maybe, someone as being, a workspace person they think you have Yeah. From a non believers perspective?
Speaker 1:Okay. So how how do you interact with a non believer in these issues of legalism, especially when they see they see both legalists, those who say, you gotta do this, do this, do this, do this, do this, and those, who maybe say those kinds of things but then behave radically different. And that's where I believe one concept is that, or to to share with them, is that all we we are called to holy living. There is this there's this these words of Jesus that say, Be holy as your father in heaven is holy. There is this perfection held before us, and then we all fall short of that.
Speaker 1:We all fall short of the glory of god and this this happens. And so if you have spotted a hypocritical Christian, this isn't the black swan. Like, they're everywhere. This is all of them. So you haven't found that unique bird.
Speaker 1:You've just seen a Christian in action. And so there's a degree to which we can just readily admit that because there are these expectations of perfection, of holiness. There's how we are in our broken and sinful state, but then we do have to be really clear in sharing with them about what the grace of god means, the grace of god covering us in his mercy with the blood of Christ that redeems the broken, the one who, knew no sin, who becomes sin on the behalf of the sinner, that they might be the righteousness of god. So I think that we do need to to first kinda walk them through that and say, yes, the hypocrisy and all of that, that's there. The desperate need for a redeemer, that's there.
Speaker 1:And then in some ways we still have to apologize for the inconsistency in, First, we we we apologize for ourselves if they've seen us live in that way and we say, Yeah, I've I confess Christ. I've recognized my brokenness, but I'm also still living out really sinfully. And so if there are any particulars to that, we confess that readily and say that's a sinful lifestyle that desperately needs the blood of Christ and I am turning from that. I am, I am repenting from that. I am leaving that.
Speaker 1:And if they're able to call you out on sin, first listen to it, Recognize that they they might be calling you out on very true things that you need to turn from and abandon and flee, in the words of Paul. Run from those things. But, also, you're not just running from them because they've they've trapped you. You're running from them because they're even able to see that you're being disobedient to god, and they might not even believe in god. So it has to be relational.
Speaker 1:It has to have that context where you're walking through these things and you can actually speak to all the complicated variables there but being very clear that yes, the necessity of a redeemer is because we need That we're not obedient when we should be obedient. Sometimes we don't even want to want to do the right thing. We can say all of that all under the victory of Christ over sin and death and say that that's why we need that savior and that's why he can't just be a wise teacher and he can't just be a kind bearded guy. Like, he has to be a redeemer. He has to be a savior.
Speaker 1:I think that we can talk about that with the non believer because the stuff that they're picking up on is probably true and we don't have to, I don't know, cover that up. Did that answer?
Speaker 4:I think it did.
Speaker 1:All right. Next question. Sir? And we'll probably have time for one more, so if you've got one running around, be quick on the draw of the hand after this one. So in several places in the scripture,
Speaker 4:it talks about kind of comparing, the life of a believer. And it's clear given the context of the letters, and you know, without being too redundant. You spoke about earlier of doing those kind of Christian disciplines. But the reality is, a Christian could be doing those
Speaker 1:Okay. So the question is when it comes to Christian disciplines how do we make sure that we're not just kind of spinning our wheels in Christian activity or we're participating in Christian things but it's not empowered disciplined obedience from the spirit. So it's, you know, kind of fleshly activity that's Christian and acceptable versus truly spirit filled obedience. Do you wanna take that, Susan? I would say that that's another really important context for community.
Speaker 1:Because on our own, we can spin those wheels and we can feel really good about and other people can step in and say, I see you're working really hard over here. However, you know, to to ask some questions and to say, what's what's what's the the gasoline that's powering this? Like, what where where's this coming from? Where's this dedication coming from? And they might bring it up out of admiring, you know?
Speaker 1:Like I see you're super dedicated. Like tell me more about that. And then you step in the door and you realize that it's an inch deep and a mile wide really big smile, as happy as can be, but there's no depth there. And so I think that that's that's where there really needs to be, that Christian community that walks with us to say, I think you might be doing that out of your own strength. And because I can see some pride that's kinda coming up.
Speaker 1:I see, some different traits that are not representative of this being a, spirit born discipline or, you know, even how we, you know, from the fasting. Are you fasting out in the street like with your face just like so forlorn and just like, Oh, I just can't wait to eat again? Are you broadcasting this for everyone? Are you praying in the street or are you taking a brother or sister and you're committed to praying for certain things? You're able to do that in a manner in which it's recognizably more about God than it is about you.
Speaker 1:And we too often are too close to that situation ourselves to really be able to judge that accurately and on it, and then after judging it accurately, reporting the data back honestly, you know? I think that's just another necessity of the Christian community where we can do these disciplines alongside of one another, encourage the right, basis for that in the spirit to celebrate when that happens, to be able to hold that up and so we can see when something is counterfeit to it. That, and This is something that we've talked about, the necessity of testimony, hearing from other people. Then we can, we hear this person who's sharing about the way that the spirit is leading them and it doesn't really square with some of the things that I'm feeling and thinking inside of myself. You know, I'm on the treadmill trying to to, you know, run the 100 yard dash.
Speaker 1:I'm not getting anywhere, but I'm working really, really hard. And so having those people that are nearest to be able to say, just so you know, I'm pretty sure you're on a treadmill. I know you think you're making some really good ground here, but you're not getting anywhere and you're getting exhausted because you're trying to do this with your own strength for your own glory, and it's just completely missing the point. Not sure if that directly answers your question, but I would just say that one of the safeguards for that, and it's one that we're not just trying to come up with ourselves with an organization, This is something that that god has actually given us in Christian community to to live this out. All right, so this is the last final question if anyone has one.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:I reckon study or read something, oh, they're so good, but you didn't get a chance to say it at night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's like the next 3 hours. And then like 2 minutes. Oh, no. And then it's it's, and then it's, you know, the thing that keeps you up for like the next 2 nights is you think, I didn't even say that and I read that whole book. I know.
Speaker 1:And I got library fines. Now, I would say, we didn't really get into a lot of, like, the the uses of the law, like where what is the law for us now. And so I will just say this one thing and we can talk about this. And also, Josh is an intern at at Redeemer. I'm the associate pastor.
Speaker 1:We're we're around and, we'd love to talk with you about these things. If you have any questions or you have things to tell us that maybe we don't know, that we would love to be informed about these things because this is something that we've studied but also we haven't studied exhaustively. I mean, none of the books that we read were written by us. So, we'd love to have dialogue about this and hear from you and things that you've studied on these things or experiences that you've had, because we have a lot to learn from each other on these things because we're we're we're all seeking to live to Christ and in that freedom. So this is this is the one thing I'll say.
Speaker 1:This is from Calvin and he has these three uses of the law for the Christian, or 3 three uses of the law today. And first is, the law restrains sin and promotes righteousness in the church and society. So kind of in a governing manner, the the law acts as a way for us to see what what right living looks like for a society. Secondly, it it disciplines and primarily it convicts us. It shows us our sin.
Speaker 1:The the law shows us the righteousness of God and where we fall into that. And then thirdly, that it becomes a rule of life for the believer. Here here, this is from, from John Calvin. His, his catechism. It says this.
Speaker 1:What is the rule of life which god has given us? And the answer, his law. He goes on. The law shows the mark at which we ought to aim, the goal towards which we ought to press, that each of us, according to the measures of grace bestowed upon us, may endeavor to frame our lives according to the highest rectitude and by constant study continually advancing more and more. Law has these 3 different there's the society kind of keeps things away from chaos.
Speaker 1:Thirdly, that it shows us how sinful we are. Secondly, this tells us how to live out a Christian life. This is the mark, the mark that we are aiming toward. And I just, I think that especially for Calvin who surely trumpeted the greatness of God's sovereign justification, his sovereign work in redeeming and at the same time the use of the law in giving us a direction for our holy obedience. So, all right.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you all so much for coming, for talking and listening and