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Real conversations about following Jesus when life doesn't slow down — from a pastor who's still figuring it out too.
This one habit affects your spiritual growth more than almost anything else,
Kristi:and
Greg:most Christians don't realize how much until they stop. Welcome to the God Made Podcast. We get together every week, me and my wife, just to talk about what it really means to follow Jesus because we know that Sunday doesn't fix everything. And there's so many of us in our Christian walk that not only does Sunday not fix everything, we just disengage from Sundays with our church family altogether. Mhmm.
Greg:So that's what we're gonna talk about today. What really happens when you stop going to church? And it changes more than I think people realize.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:It affects so much.
Kristi:I mean, it's been a long time since we haven't been regular church goers. You're in the ministry now, and, it's kind of it's our life now, but I remember before you went into ministry, and it really changed, changed us, it changed our lives when we really got connected in a church and started serving, but I mean, you don't have any accountability. You don't have necessarily any other Christian friends encouraging you. You lose so much Yeah. When you don't have that.
Greg:Yeah. So what what are the major things we lose through disconnection with the church? And you just hit on the first one, relationships. We lose that encouragement from from those people who they're fellow believers, and they keep us grounded.
Kristi:And that doesn't, you don't necessarily get that in an instant. It's it's a relationship. It builds. Yeah. You you have to interact with the people.
Greg:Yeah. That's why we call it a church family so often, not just a church.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:Right. It's so important to build those relationships that help you stay grounded around people who are going through or have been through similar things that you've been through or similar life stages or similar stages in spiritual growth or maybe not similar at that moment, but they've been there. Right. So they can encourage us when when we're at the lowest of lows and our spirituality, our our walk with Jesus just seems to be hitting a wall, or life just seems to be piling up on top of us, and we don't know where to turn. Mhmm.
Greg:So what happens when we don't have that encouragement from other other believers?
Kristi:Well, you you become isolated. You can become depressed, feel all alone.
Greg:Yeah. That discouragement Mhmm. When you're not getting encouraged, that discouragement just piles up.
Kristi:You honestly feel like you're alone out out on an island. There's just sometimes there's nobody that you feel like you can confide in, trust in, ask them to pray for you. I mean, who what are you gonna do?
Greg:Yeah. That's such an important part of church that when we build those relationships with other believers, it just gives us that support system along with hopefully our family, if our family are believers. Mhmm. That gives us that support system to be able to deal with the junk of life.
Kristi:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I remember times in our life where we've gone through really rough things, and looking back, that's who wrapped their arms around us. Yeah. It was our church family, mostly.
Kristi:We had friends too, but mostly our church family, and they were there all the time for you at at the house. They would find you at church just to check on you. I mean, it was it was so encouraging just to have someone that you felt like really cared and loved for you.
Greg:Yeah. That's why that's why church is so important because we were never meant to do this alone. Mhmm. And those church relationships, this they help us in that foundation. So we disconnect from church.
Greg:We're disconnecting from those relationships largely when we're not involved. But it's more than just the relationships. You're also missing out on biblical teaching and preaching. I know I'm a preacher, so I'm gonna harp on missing out on preaching. But it's not just when I when I preach.
Kristi:But you can watch online.
Greg:You can watch online. It's not quite the same. No. It's not. Especially since I think that it should extend outside of Sundays.
Greg:Right. You know? I I preach for thirty five to forty five minutes on a Sunday. That can't be all we're getting. Right.
Greg:It happens in your life group. It happens in one on one conversations with other people. Mhmm. That biblical preaching and teaching is so so important. I mean, we are bombarded with these distorted beliefs that kinda twist and kinda in a way, they start to merge with your Christian beliefs and it just becomes this distorted faith.
Greg:And if you don't have that foundation, you're gonna get get caught up in that kind of stuff and not know one side from the other when it comes to your faith.
Kristi:The culture will take something and twist it, and then you hear it, and you're like, oh, okay. That's how that works. You just you don't like you said, you don't have that that foundation, that scripture that counteracts that.
Greg:Yeah. It's even more than just the the preaching and teaching you get, that gathering on Sunday mornings when we come together, we're in worship singing together. Mhmm. You can't get that online. Right.
Greg:You can't get that when you're sitting at the lake fishing. You can't get that when you're sleeping in. When we pray together in corporate prayer, take communion together Mhmm. Celebrate baptism together. And there's so much that you you just have to be there for it to be effective.
Greg:And those things over time begin to develop something in you, that just draws you closer to the Lord and gives you a stronger foundation to walk close to Jesus with So in you lose the connection with other people, you kinda lose that connection to being in a community, worshiping together, and getting biblical preaching and teaching. But on top of that, you also lose the opportunities to be a part of something that's bigger than yourself. And I'm not just talking about a group of people. I'm talking about serving the needs of other people. Right.
Kristi:When you actually step out and serve and serve in different ministries or outreaches, it it opens a whole new world.
Greg:Yeah. That's when I really started growing in my faith, when I started serving. I stepped way outside my comfort zone and just said yes to serving. It gives you a purpose way larger than what you had before, a meaning behind all of it. One of the biggest things that happens when you start to draw away from church if you're a parent is your children quietly see church is not important.
Greg:Right. And scripture even tells us that you're we're one generation away from your the faith in your family just being totally extinguished. Right.
Kristi:I I saw that in my own life growing up. We went at church every once in a while, but it was never a routine. It was like, are we going to church tomorrow? Are we Yeah. It was kinda like that.
Greg:Was And it turns into church is optional for me. Mhmm. And then my children, as they become adults, church becomes occasional, not even optional. Yeah. And then for your grandchildren, watch church Right.
Greg:Is really kinda where it ends up.
Kristi:That's a horny.
Greg:And that seems like a big dramatic swing, but that's really how it plays out.
Kristi:It is. And it's and it's easy to get there. It's so easy to get there.
Greg:Yeah. So let's talk about why people withdraw from church. I think it starts, number one, as so many of us look at church from a consumer standpoint. It becomes what am I getting out of church? How am I getting fed?
Greg:Which it is important that we get fed. I don't wanna, to sugarcoat that. Right. Part of you coming is you getting fed. Right.
Greg:But when it becomes only about you getting fed and what you're getting out of it, you're not contributing back to the mission, and there's no reason for you to be there. You can do that online. You can learn those things on your own, but you miss out on all the relationships. You miss out on all those other things we've just been talking about. But that's that's why a lot of people stop coming, you know, because this church, they're not meeting my expectations.
Greg:That preacher, he's getting kinda long winded or his sermons just hadn't been hitting me. Just not hit me in the chest recently. Haven't really felt convicted by anything. Or, you know, my children, they don't enjoy that kid's ministry. Mhmm.
Greg:Okay. Jump in and change it.
Kristi:Is it is it entertainment?
Greg:Is it entertainment? Yeah. The biblical question when we think about it shouldn't be what am I receiving, but what am I putting into this? Who am I loving? Who am I serving?
Greg:Who am I helping bring closer to Jesus?
Kristi:Alright. I mean, if you look at it on the flip side, some people are upset because they they feel kind of invisible, at church.
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:But are they stepping out?
Greg:Yeah. That's
Kristi:I mean, and then I know it's very uncomfortable for some people, but that that's how to get to know people. You you have to engage too.
Greg:There there is some validity to someone feeling invisible in church because it is our responsibility as a church to reach out to people and to make sure that they feel welcomed. But it's not just on the church. Right. We all have a part to play in it, and sometimes we drop the ball. As the pastor of a church, I need help when somebody feels that way.
Greg:Tell me. Tell me. Don't just stop showing up.
Kristi:And not necessarily to every time there's a problem, tell the pastor, if you see a problem, if you don't think people are being welcomed or or really have an effort to talk to new people and things like that, be the one that does it. Yeah. You know, it's it's not the pastor has to approve everything at at most churches, I'm sure. But I know if if you see a problem and you can fix it, that that's serving. Get out there and do it.
Greg:Yeah. I think the last one, as far as why people leave church, is church hurt. Yeah. And church hurt causes us to abandon our not always our faith, but definitely the church in a lot of times. And, you know, church hurts a real thing.
Kristi:No. It is.
Greg:It happens. Some of it stems from what we just talked about with the kind of the invisibility thing, but some of it is just because church is full of people and people do stupid things.
Kristi:Yeah. Everybody's human. Yeah. Not necess I mean, because some church hurt is not just a flippant, you know, misspeak Yeah. By somebody.
Kristi:Sometimes it's
Greg:Sometimes it is because that church is an unhealthy church. Right.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:But that doesn't mean you should abandon the church. Right. Maybe you should leave that church, but you should not abandon
Kristi:The big church. Yeah.
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:That that that never helps anything. If you have been hurt by church in the past, find another church that will love you and welcome you in.
Kristi:Right. They're out there.
Greg:There's not a perfect church. They're all gonna have issues. Mhmm. But leaving an unhealthy church might be the wise thing to do. Abandoning the church wholesale, it's gonna leave you out there swimming in an ocean, and you can't find your way back out of it.
Kristi:Right. When you get into that habit of not going to church every week, and a week slips by, and then, oh, another one, I think you forget how good it can be Yeah. Relationship wise, and and growing and everything, just becomes almost scary to go back.
Greg:Yeah. So what really happens when you give up on church, when you stop going to church? I guess maybe the best way to say what really happens is you miss out on the abundant life God has given you with a church family to walk through faith with, to grow together with, to be pouring into each other. Right. You miss out on on the the thing that's bigger than yourself, serving the purpose of the gospel Mhmm.
Greg:For the kingdom advancement. That's what it's all about, making disciples. You miss out on that. And, yeah, I know you can do it on your own. But when you try to do it on your own without being around a church, things don't go the way they're supposed to go.
Greg:Right. And you may not realize that that disconnection is costing you that immediately. But gradually, over time, you begin to draw further and further and further away until you really, this this hole just ends up inside of you where you know you need that church, a church family, to come alongside. Because you're never you're not meant to go through this alone. Alright.
Greg:We are meant to do faith together. There's never one time in scripture where someone does faith by themselves successfully. Alright. But there's another danger underlying all of this. You can show up to church every single Sunday and still never become a full follower of Christ, still never grow spiritually, and that's the next part of this conversation.
Greg:So many of us, we go to church on Sundays, and it doesn't change a lot for people. We have seen it. So why do some people attend church even for years? So many we have seen so many people who regularly attend church, like, almost weekly for years, and they're still full of anger, they're still full of fear, and they're still full of bitterness. Their relationships still struggle.
Greg:Nothing really changes. Why do you think that is?
Kristi:Well, honestly, if they're listening to the word every week, the sermon, and they never apply it to their lives would be a huge thing because they might be hearing it, but they're not applying it, to their heart, to their lives.
Greg:Yeah.
Kristi:Not changing.
Greg:Being being a disciple is not about knowledge. It's about action. It's about being like Jesus. That's really what disciple means is I'm learning to be like. Mhmm.
Greg:And in this case, it's Jesus. Right. You know, Dave Kinnaman with Barna Research, he pointed out that church going alone, according to their statistics, it does not automatically create devoted disciples. Barna and Glue did some research, and here's what they have found. When they're looking at the value of face to face relationships, 68% of the people they spoke to believe that their group would support them in a time of need.
Greg:That's a pretty big benefit from being plugged into your church. Mhmm. 62% said that their group felt like family to them. It's not just people they go have bible study with. 55% considered the group essential to their faith.
Greg:So what's it supposed to look like? Why do we show up on Sundays and not change? Well, let's look at the model of Jesus. How did Jesus do it? Jesus, when you look in scripture, he taught crowds.
Kristi:Taught crowds. Okay.
Greg:Taught taught to the He had big crowds that would show up because they heard of this Jesus and all that he was doing. They were usually showing up because they wanted to see a miracle or wanted to be healed or wanted to hear something amazing. So they would come and they would hear. And Jesus engaged that. He would preach to the crowds, but he also had a group.
Greg:And we think of the 12 as the disciples, but there were a lot of disciples following Jesus.
Kristi:Right. Right. That's the 12 we hear
Greg:about. So he had he had a a fair smaller than the masses, but a a large group of people who were actually following him, who were actually becoming Jesus followers. But then even inside that, he had the 12. Those 12 guys who he really poured into, did life with. Mhmm.
Greg:And even inside that, he had three more guys who he really, really focused on.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:And you you can see how important don't I don't know that the exact numbers matter, that a group needs to be three and then 12, and then he sent out 70 or 72 at one point, and then mass I don't know that the numbers matter. I think the point is when we build those relationships that are tight knit
Kristi:Mhmm.
Greg:Growth happens. Right. And that was the model that Jesus seemed to use. I'm gonna pour into these three. I'm gonna keep pouring into these 12.
Greg:I'm gonna keep speaking and teaching this larger group, and I'm gonna preach to the masses. It's important to to get into a church and then not to just leave it as a Sunday morning gathering.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:So speak to to your experience. We get in a group.
Kristi:Oh, wow. Lots of them. Well, I've been in the smaller discipleship groups. We used to a few years ago, we had a a group of four of us, four ladies, who would meet here on at our house on our back porch every, excuse me, Saturday morning, and that was a really special time. And we were into bible study, we dug into scripture every week, but we also talked about what's going on in our lives and just struggled, got encouragement, got godly advice about situations and things.
Kristi:It was just it was just a really, really sweet special time, and that group split off, you know, because we're supposed to disciple other people and, went on from there. But and then life groups alone, we've been in many, many life groups. And our church now, the first, the core that started it before we added on some more people was our life group at our former church. Every almost every single person that was in our life group, came with us to to plan church.
Greg:And the two that didn't were going into ministry themselves.
Kristi:Yes. Yes. Yeah. It's not nothing against them, but they they had other plans. So, and we are still with those people.
Kristi:Today, that that core group, that came with us, they're they're all still at
Greg:the church. They're all still there. I would call call them some of my closest Mhmm. Friends, people who I trust and I I would talk to. Right.
Greg:You've had your group of women that you meet with right now. I got a group of six guys that I meet with, and, you know, there's it's not a formal thing. We walk through some scripture together. We read a book together at a time, and then we just talk about it. This is what I learned this week, and this is why life sucks this week.
Greg:That's basically what our meetings are. Right. And we try to encourage each other. At our last meeting, we kinda flipped it. And instead of talking about, you know, this is why life's been terrible.
Greg:What was your win this week?
Kristi:Right.
Greg:Because we wanna be encouraged too.
Kristi:Oh, yeah.
Greg:It's probably controversial to say this, but church will not change you. Church relationships will change you. Yeah. God designed it that way. When we talk about the church, we're not talking about showing up to a building.
Greg:We're talking about God's people. God set his people aside to go and to pour into each other, to help each other grow as faithful Christians Mhmm. And then go change the world. That's that's the reason that we have church.
Kristi:And, I mean, our culture has turned that into, do you go to church? And the answer is if you go on Sunday mornings to a worship service.
Greg:Yeah. That's not
Kristi:church. That's just the people that connect to that church coming together once a week. But there's a there's all this other stuff that goes on during the week, all this connection.
Greg:Sunday gathering, extremely important. But if that's it, you're not a part of the church.
Kristi:Yeah. It's like the Super Bowl after all the playoff games all week.
Greg:Yeah. I guess you could look at it that way. I look at it kind of as the the rally to get you refreshed to go out and do the ministry God's called you to do this week.
Kristi:You know, I was just being sports.
Greg:It's the same thing. I know. It's just the pregame speech. Right.
Kristi:Right.
Greg:Your game is through the week. You're going out and doing the work that God's God's put before you.
Kristi:It can't just be Sunday mornings for an hour and a
Greg:half. Yeah. So what do we do? If showing up to church isn't enough, there are some important things that we need to do. And number one, you do need to make it a priority.
Greg:Not I mean, weekly, yes. You need to be at your church every week if you can. I know that some people, you have jobs and, you know, like, you're a firefighter or a cop or a nurse or so many different professions, you can't be there every week, but make it a priority to be a part of the the church gathering when you can be there. Right. It's so important.
Greg:So important. How why is being a part of the church gathering important to you?
Kristi:Oh, I mean, that's I look forward to it every week. It's just coming in together and seeing this side story. I remember a couple years ago at our church, we were having we have one meeting a year, one annual meeting, and I remember standing back in the corner as it was going on. Everyone's at tables, and, I mean, it brought me to tears just looking across. I wasn't talking to anybody.
Kristi:I'm gonna cry now. Just looking across, and I looked at all those people. There's probably 7,500 people in there. I don't know. There was a lot.
Kristi:And I was like, I know every single one of these people, and I love these people. And it's it's like family. It's and it it's almost I mean, the family I grew up with, I love them, but
Greg:A little different.
Kristi:It it's yeah. It's even better than family, your your grow up family, but it's the family aspect that I love, and I I love our church. I love our people.
Greg:Yeah. So we need to make it a priority, and that means it's not a negotiation every week. If you can be at church, be at church. Yeah. But then it tags on to what you were just saying.
Greg:It needs to move beyond Sundays. Make relationships in your church. Move from attendance to relationship because that's where the change happens. Make it a priority to build relationships with the people in the church.
Kristi:Right. And you don't have to be friends with every single person in the church. I mean, some people are gonna you're gonna be closer to some than others, and that's okay.
Greg:Yeah. Church really, it really starts feeling different when you become more than a spectator.
Kristi:Right. You you can't just come in, sit, listen, leave, and expect to even feel like you're a part
Greg:of it. Yeah. You've got to engage in it. So if you're a part of our church, how do you engage in it? You get in a in a life group.
Greg:That's the primary way. Most churches out there have some form of life groups. Mhmm. Maybe it's a Sunday school class. Maybe you call it a a life group, a small group, a disciples discipleship group.
Greg:I mean, they got all kinds of names out there. The point is find you a group, a smaller group of people. Usually, like, 10 to 20 is typically about the size of them. Find you a group of people, get in with that group, and make it one of the most important things. Outside of your family, make it the most important thing in your week.
Kristi:And, also, you you don't make that you you make that a priority, not a decision every you know, if it's on a Tuesday night, on Tuesday afternoon. Am I gonna go to the LifeGroup tonight? You you're just going. Yeah. You're scheduled
Greg:We're honest. There's times where we're like that. It's like, man, I'm tired. Do I really wanna go to LifeGroup tonight? And we've never regret it.
Kristi:Oh, I know. How many times have I said that? I I'm like, I might not wanna go, but after I go, I'm always so so thankful that I did.
Greg:Never have regretted it.
Kristi:And we've gotta think of you know, we're not going to debate back and forth if we're gonna go to work the next day. Why do we do that for our relationships, our our church?
Greg:Because we're not getting paid to get a lifeguard. So maybe you're in a church and it doesn't provide any way to do that, especially some smaller churches. And I I I don't wanna bash smaller churches because we're not a big church ourselves. Mm-mm. There's always a way to provide that.
Greg:And if your church isn't doing that, find a church that is. You may have a great pastor, maybe he's just overwhelmed. Talk to him. Say, I need a a group.
Kristi:Or find somebody that you click with and say
Greg:Start a group yourself.
Kristi:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, doesn't have to be this formal
Greg:No. It doesn't have to
Kristi:church ordained thing. It's like get together with some Christian believers and have bible study and talk about your lives. And
Greg:then move from consumption to contribution. Yeah. You know, make church a priority. Be there on Sundays. Get in a group and start serving Serving.
Greg:Some way.
Kristi:Yeah. There's so many places. Regularly.
Greg:You know? If you're in a church, there's all kinds of ministries to serving. Get involved in kids ministry. You can't stand kids? Okay.
Greg:Get involved in teenage ministry. Work with the youth group. Not really into that? Okay. Work somewhere behind the scenes.
Greg:I'm sure there's a welcome team, a security team. Mow the yard. There's all kinds of things you Yeah. Can
Kristi:There's something that you have a passion for or you really enjoy doing, and it might not be obvious, but you can you can figure out what what to do that you have
Greg:It doesn't have to be in your church, you know. You need the church, but you also need to be serving. Maybe it's in a at a homeless shelter, maybe it's in a a food ministry, and it can be so many different things. You've got to be serving others if you're gonna grow.
Kristi:And sometimes you can start serving in a ministry that you don't want to do, and you end up so thankful that you did and you love it. So God can change you to love the ministry that you're in, because that that happened to me with working with you. Loved it after a little bit, and I was petrified to start it. But but he just changed my heart. That's all there is to it.
Greg:Yeah. Going to church, it doesn't change you in and of itself. Mhmm. It's when you commit to being a part of the church, building the relationships, and serving. Joby Martin, one of my favorite pastors out there right now, he always says this thing, you know, put putting your head in the oven doesn't make you a biscuit.
Greg:Showing up to church on Sunday mornings doesn't make you a disciple. Being like Jesus makes you a disciple. Right. So do those things and do it you commit. My challenge to everyone listening, commit to this for the next six months.
Greg:And if God doesn't change you, then you can send me an email and tell me I'm an idiot. I promise you, if you commit to this over the long haul Right. You will see change.
Kristi:Right. You've just gotta take the first step.
Greg:Yeah. Take the first step. So if you've already committed to a church, your step this week, find you a life group or a small group or whatever y'all call it. Get involved. Make it a priority.
Greg:If you're already in a life group and you've done that, find somewhere, start serving. Commit to all that for the next six months and see what God does. He'll draw you in closer, and you will start becoming a fully formed disciple of Christ.
Kristi:And then you cannot imagine your life without it.
Greg:That's right. That's right. So thanks for joining us today, we'll see you next time on the God Made Podcast.