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Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00:00:00:11 - 00:00:43:02
Jennifer Kluge
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CEO Thought Leadership. I'm your host, Jennifer Kluge. And today we have our special guest, David Bolton. He is chairman and CEO of Honigman Law Firm with multiple locations throughout the country. They have over 350 employees specialized in intellectual property, private equity, corporate and securities, real estate and litigation. Under David's leadership, Honigman has been named a high scoring elite winner of the best and Brightest Companies workforce program in multiple regions across the country, as well as a winner at the national level.
00:00:43:04 - 00:00:53:14
Jennifer Kluge
David personally advises clients on mergers, acquisitions, divestitures, financial transactions and public offerings. Welcome to the program, David.
00:00:53:17 - 00:00:55:15
David Foltyn
Thank you. I'm just delighted to be here.
00:00:55:20 - 00:01:23:14
Jennifer Kluge
Well, it's wonderful to have you. Let's just swing right into it. You know, there's a lot going on with mergers and acquisitions. We're hearing a lot about it. We're seeing the ripple out factors of all of these mergers and acquisitions. For those listening that are unaware of the forces in play currently as it relates to your industry. Give us a snapshot of what's happening, especially with inflation and interest rates.
00:01:23:19 - 00:01:59:05
David Foltyn
So our deal pace, it slowed a bit. It it didn't disappear, but it slowed a bit on seller pricing and buyer pricing. You haven't quite matched up. In some cases, investment bankers have sort of oversold company earnings and performance and deals have died during due diligence. But our clients have money to spend aggressive managers and in our being leaders see the deal pace picking up as we hit the fourth quarter.
00:01:59:05 - 00:02:05:07
David Foltyn
So things are starting least in the mid-market sector where we are active to really pick up.
00:02:05:10 - 00:02:29:22
Jennifer Kluge
Wonderful things, explaining that. So it is softening, but there's still cash out there, which is which is interesting. That's really interesting. You see other trends as a law firm and usually law firms see things before the rest of the business world does. What do you see happening in the future as far as business climate? It's within the next six months to a year.
00:02:29:22 - 00:02:31:19
Jennifer Kluge
What key indicators are you seeing?
00:02:31:21 - 00:02:55:05
David Foltyn
Well, there's a lot of uncertainty, and uncertainty is worse by far measure than certainty. If you know, if things are going to be good, that's great. That's you know, they're going to be bad, not as good. But there's tremendous amount of uncertainty. There's a real uncertainty in political climate, as I mentioned, Are M&A lawyers? Are things seeing things pick up?
00:02:55:10 - 00:03:25:13
David Foltyn
Capital markets would expect them to. Our our life science practice is growing, which is indicator about what's going on in the world. Real estate is down and particular office real estate you read the news you know what's happening with office space. And so that side of real estate is looking negative and the experts are predicting all sorts of negative things in the in the commercial office space.
00:03:25:15 - 00:03:48:00
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah, well, we're we're seeing that, too. We're hearing a lot of CEOs that are trying to decide what they're doing with their offices on the commercial side, as well as hybrid work. So even if you have the lease, the building is still partially empty. And then in some of the bigger cities across the country, it's impacting the economy.
00:03:48:06 - 00:03:50:14
Jennifer Kluge
So it's a problem.
00:03:50:16 - 00:04:13:18
David Foltyn
In a lot of the major real estate office properties that the debt is held by a servicer. It's not in the hands of a bank. There's really no one to negotiate with. And people are predicting some generally problematic times in that area or some properties.
00:04:13:20 - 00:04:35:06
Jennifer Kluge
They're calling it the bubble that's going to possibly pop. So that that'll ripple out. We've seen it ripple out to other industry as well. It's definitely softening out there. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that, because it's important. Know the good, the bad and the ugly. Now you have the beautiful role of chairman and CEO and sometimes that's good.
00:04:35:06 - 00:04:54:09
Jennifer Kluge
Sometimes that's not good. Because what you need to do as the CEO for operations isn't always in the best interest of chairman and vice versa. So how do you create synergy between the strategic needs of both groups? Give us some insight there on your and your leadership.
00:04:54:11 - 00:05:32:16
David Foltyn
We have our governance structure is very CEO centric, but the way I've operated is I walk around a lot. Top Republican I probably have lunch or cocktail two or three days a week with my colleagues. We do rely on thought leaders. We do talk things over and I try to listen at all levels. Even our newest people have something and we're very active in lateral hiring people that come to us from another firm at their brain.
00:05:32:16 - 00:05:56:14
David Foltyn
I like to know what's worked for them, what doesn't work, what's what they see working with us. Right now, we're in the middle of a strategic planning process here. We have a committee of about a dozen or so important thought leaders in the firm, and then we probably have another 20 or 25 initially who we polled and surveyed and chatted with.
00:05:56:16 - 00:06:30:21
David Foltyn
And then as we start to make more out of it, we'll start to expand. Conversations will have much emerged, will have different things so that we can get different views. We our view here institutionally is that it's times of uncertainty when the strongest businesses thrive. We have a great balance sheet. We don't borrow, but we have a tremendous amount of capital for the firm our size, and we are looking to take advantage of that in the current market that we're in.
00:06:31:00 - 00:06:59:13
David Foltyn
But with lawyers, it seems that everybody has an opinion. And so it's it's sometimes a challenge to get all these very smart right thinking people around one, you know, one concept. And generally, I believe that the best ideas are not my smartest person in the room is the wrong. So we really try hard to open up decision making and conversation.
00:06:59:13 - 00:07:09:24
David Foltyn
But of course, the buck stops here. I mean, at some point we have to get to we call it End of Job. And right now it's, you know, somebody has to break the tide, so to speak.
00:07:10:04 - 00:07:41:10
Jennifer Kluge
Well, that's interesting. You make it sound easy. So for our listeners today, there were two really good examples of best practices at the CEO level. One is to walk the poor corners of the office literally and figuratively and listen and hear so many executives don't do that. So that that's really, really important that you do that. And then, you know, tasks, planning, investments, not having debt and being strong.
00:07:41:10 - 00:08:04:01
Jennifer Kluge
So when an economy softens, you're ready for you're prepared for it so that you can see the opportunities. It's almost like a state help season when the economy gets a little weaker for those that are strong financially. So, David, you said it's so eloquently, but there are so many leaders out there that don't know those two best practices.
00:08:04:01 - 00:08:30:17
Jennifer Kluge
So so thank you for sharing that. Let's shift gears a little bit. So, you know, there are stereotypes of attorneys and lawyers out there. It's mostly painted as a non-diverse world. And I know that you personally have taken steps to address this issue of diversity, equity and inclusion. Tell us a little bit of your philosophy there and for the naysayers.
00:08:30:17 - 00:08:47:09
Jennifer Kluge
What actions have you taken and what results have you received? Because, you know, a lot of companies say, hey, we have DNA or we're recruiting or we're going out of our way to make sure where we're getting a diverse group of minds. Expand on that for us. Statement.
00:08:47:13 - 00:09:33:21
David Foltyn
All right. Let me do that. So law is a creative business. What what we do, where we add value is by finding creative dilution. Impossible for me to imagine a creative business that isn't diverse and and I versed in all respects, not just in the traditional respects, but diversity, thought, diversity and background. It's it's very difficult if you have a trial in a federal court, in a community where the jury is likely to be part of color, are women, are other minorities, it's impossible to have four white men in the room theorizing on how to get that going.
00:09:33:21 - 00:10:00:10
David Foltyn
So we really have to place it here. And I'm by heart and by nature very much into diversity and inclusion. That's just my nature. That's the political view. That's how I approach the world. But not everybody votes that way. Not everybody feels that way. And I think what we've done is we've persuaded the owners of the business that, you know, irrespective of what your political view is, this is good for the business.
00:10:00:15 - 00:10:17:20
David Foltyn
You give money wherever you want to give a vote or whatever way you want to go, but any way you look at it, it's good for the business. So that really that's been the focus. We've got a few we've got many people like me who just feel that way and then we have other it's no, it's good for the business.
00:10:17:20 - 00:10:41:16
David Foltyn
And as owners of the business, we have to operate that way. That said, we have a social responsibility, inclusion and equity partner here called Spencer, who is in charge of all of our efforts. We work closely together. She's a member of our board of directors, attends board of directors meetings. She's involved in attorney compensation, she's involved in our hiring.
00:10:41:20 - 00:11:14:00
David Foltyn
And she is here in southeastern Michigan, where we're based. She is the leading the I person in law firm. She runs on the collective that we have with our other firms. We've been, you know, in 2020, we led the Detroit law firms in speaking out against racial injustice after the Floyd murders and other similar events. And so we have a lot of focus on it.
00:11:14:00 - 00:11:49:05
David Foltyn
We have an attorney development program here. I I've always believed that whatever we do to promote diversity, equity and inclusion benefits every lawyer. I'll give you an example. We had several years ago situations where a first year lawyer, if you were thorough, attentive to detail, a good writer and worked hard, you were a star and nine years later you were a partner and you were thorough, attentive to detail and a good writer and worked hard, that wasn't enough.
00:11:49:07 - 00:12:20:21
David Foltyn
And we saw, frankly, that that was impacting our diverse lawyers more than not. And we spent a lot of time and effort. We hired a consultant and we created we took the best lawyers. Offsite came the work assignments, and we created a core competency program for every two years of a lawyer's career going up to their ninth year with each lawyer having an an individual plan so that we could tell you after two years, this is great.
00:12:20:21 - 00:12:47:02
David Foltyn
But in the next two years you need to do this, this and this. And you knew where you stood. We have a full time C-level executive who runs it, Zainab Stover. She's a former star real estate lawyer in the firm. She got involved in management. The real estate department wasn't very happy with me, but she runs it. She has a full staff, and in it we work with Carla on the diversity aspects of it.
00:12:47:04 - 00:13:15:16
David Foltyn
A couple other things we do as part of our commitment in 2022, we received something called Mansfield Bible Certification and that's been increased to six out at Mansfield. There's a program in law which is similar to the Rooney Rule in football that when coaching opportunities it became available a certain percentage of the folks considered had to be diverse.
00:13:15:18 - 00:13:38:16
David Foltyn
What it's what it's done for me, when we asked people if they're interested in a job, people are raising their hand. And I had no idea at interest leadership. And we're finding a lot of leaders that were just getting from us. And it's diverse lawyers and that includes lawyer and our Kolkata Competency Paragon program that's paid off for everybody.
00:13:38:16 - 00:14:06:15
David Foltyn
That's not just minorities and diverse lawyers. It pays off for everyone. Similarly, that don't get me going because I can talk about this topic similarly, we recognize that guide does not start in law school. It's too late. Yeah, probably starts at birth, at grade school. It starts with children that are born at the chalkboard and children that were born miles away.
00:14:06:18 - 00:14:43:07
David Foltyn
And so we do a lot of things pre law. So we are active in something called tutoring where our folks, about 100 of them read to second graders in inner city schools once every week or two. We then have a graduation and we end our diplomas a little later than that. We have something called the Honigman Academy. At about five years ago, we worked with our United Way and the Detroit Public Schools, and we have about 20 10th graders from Cody High School, which is a inner city high school turnaround school.
00:14:43:09 - 00:15:06:21
David Foltyn
And we have them in for a 12 week session. They get grades. Lila actually use them billable hours instead of grades. So an A is five billable hours, A B is for billable hours. And such. But what we do, we recognize most of these kids are not going to go to a four year college and they're not going to be ready for law school right away.
00:15:06:21 - 00:15:32:17
David Foltyn
So we show them all the things that a law firm does budgeting, project management, accounting. And they they do law. They work on law, and they present a case to a to a real judge, but they also go through the departments in the firm so that they can see things that are realistic places to work with a two year degree and maybe go to law school at night or something like that.
00:15:32:19 - 00:16:01:06
David Foltyn
And then lastly, example, we're part of something called Thrive Scholars. Rice Scholars started in Madison. It's about 15 years old. And what it basically said, it started to ask why really smart, particularly black kids will going to be a doctor. And the next thing they knew, they started at a grade school and they were majoring in check out what was happening.
00:16:01:08 - 00:16:28:12
David Foltyn
And what they learned was that in that case, starting work as a teenager was a very helpful they're proud and they would get sponsors not from medical systems. And the kids signed a contract and they were involved in STEM education from ninth, 10th grade on it. It's been remarkably successful. They've just created a cohort cohort in law. We sponsor two young people.
00:16:28:12 - 00:16:43:12
David Foltyn
Now it's a separate system. They have no obligation to work for us and no obligation to even come. And we're one of our offices, are we mentor We're doing all of that because we just think that the guy does not start school.
00:16:43:14 - 00:17:13:06
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah, that's amazing. There are so many best practices here. Let's unpack it for a minute. You have somebody assigned to accountability, you have somebody assigned to metrics in progress. You have outside sources guiding you, and then you're starting at such a young level to promote the industry and the trade of being a lawyer. So many good things here.
00:17:13:06 - 00:17:37:09
Jennifer Kluge
I am not surprised on how high you all score on being a best and brightest company to work for. And I mean, you've done your diligence. You're approaching it in a very smart, pragmatic way and it's to be commended that and I would encourage anyone listening, if you are struggling with anything like this, use this model a purpose, civil action and accountability.
00:17:37:11 - 00:17:44:01
Jennifer Kluge
And I would imagine that they could reach out to them and get some tips, I would imagine.
00:17:44:03 - 00:18:09:23
David Foltyn
Calvillo has very often presented at businesses we love to share. You know, as optimistic as I am and positive as I am, I couldn't finish the topic without telling you. We have a long way, a real long way to go. And I think in particular, we have a long way to go because there are more and more people in the community, kids who are not getting prepared for us.
00:18:09:24 - 00:18:31:01
David Foltyn
I mean, most of us here are middle class or more that that there you know, we didn't worry about food security when we went to school. We didn't worry about safety getting to school. And so as long as that part of the community is growing and is unserved, we're not we're not going to get done.
00:18:31:03 - 00:18:52:19
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah, well, I think we all have a long way to go and we we all need to take action. And it's the magnitude of small actions together that make change happen. So so thank you for sharing that. I also found it interesting that when you describe the practice of being an attorney, you said it was a creative business.
00:18:52:23 - 00:19:23:05
Jennifer Kluge
Most of us would not. In being an attorney creator, we would think it's is very straightforward and pragmatic. But that that was also interesting. And I hope our our listeners caught that. So let's let's shift gears. Artificial intelligence is getting a lot of hype right now. You as an attorney, I'm sure there's all kinds of whenever something new happens, there's all kinds of law related to it that needs to be established and precedents established or what have you.
00:19:23:07 - 00:19:30:11
Jennifer Kluge
What are your thoughts on a I from a legal perspective? And then are you using that within your firm bit?
00:19:30:11 - 00:19:53:05
David Foltyn
It's here we are. You know, the label business is in some respects, doctor, you know, 200 years ago. I mean, I always tell my doctor friends that if you practice medicine the way we practice law, you probably still be leeching blood from us. But firms like ours are all about delivering value. And that's what we have to do.
00:19:53:05 - 00:20:19:15
David Foltyn
That's our edge. We deliver value, and part of that is creative. And there's an element of this that I don't think any program or machine or whatever will duplicate. Yeah, or at least in my life, which is that we get paid for empathy, we get paid for judgment, we get paid for creativity. But that's that a lot of what we do is just project mix.
00:20:19:17 - 00:20:47:23
David Foltyn
It's no different than building a bridge. It's no different than putting a building lot of stuff that goes into it that does not require a brilliant lawyer to do it. It's your innovation, it's your process. Since here we're already using A.I., we use A.I. for due diligence. It reads documents much quicker than humans do with much less error.
00:20:48:00 - 00:21:12:15
David Foltyn
It can create reports, it can do things that are better done by software than by by lawyers. And it can give us intelligence about judges that were in front of it, can tell us how they rule on certain matters. It can help us develop phrases that appeal to them. It's there. And so we need to get we need to use it.
00:21:12:15 - 00:21:43:05
David Foltyn
We need to learn it. A lot of people are focused on jetpacks. That's a very controversial tool in law. There have been some examples where lawyers have used it to right briefs and it's just made up a lot. And that's technically not complying with your ethical obligations. There are serious ethical obligations about putting client information into the public, which some of this does.
00:21:43:05 - 00:22:12:12
David Foltyn
We now have a policy on using it, and we have an entire technology committee between lawyers and technical experts that's that's focused on how we do this, how we do it safely and how we innovate, not just through technology, but through process, who does what. We now have over 350 lawyers. We probably have 30 who are not tradition or partner lawyers.
00:22:12:12 - 00:22:43:06
David Foltyn
They are lawyers who are highly technical, not technically able. They apply the technology for us. They do due diligence, they do the summary, and it's very efficient for our clients. And lastly, it's expensive. We the investment that law firms have to make in this is is very, very expensive. I once had a cohort tell me I got to spend $1,000,000 to get $3 million fewer in fees.
00:22:43:08 - 00:23:00:19
David Foltyn
How am I going to help? How am I going to get that to where you can make it work? But it is expensive. It's here and it's just not going anywhere. We are. We want to be we're too small to invest. No, we really want to be the first to adapt. We want to be early on.
00:23:00:21 - 00:23:36:08
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah, well, you brought up some good points once things are out there. Client confidentiality is an issue. Who owns what's being produced is an issue out there, I'm sure, and ethics around it. But it's not going anywhere. We we all have to get our arms around it. And the more that people use it, the better it gets. But we've heard quite a bit about as far as sourcing and unseen material or research that that's not the strongest attribute of war for air yet.
00:23:36:14 - 00:23:38:14
Jennifer Kluge
Right. So all.
00:23:38:16 - 00:23:54:22
David Foltyn
That there will be at some point the big companies, a lot of this still in startups but at some point the big companies that our vendors the legal were they're going to buy these and they're going to combine other of their tools to make these things.
00:23:54:24 - 00:24:17:04
Jennifer Kluge
And it's going to happen fast. I heard an expert last month talk about it's it's going it's going quick. If you don't adapt to learning how it can help your business, you might not be in business in 2 to 5 years. It's it's one of those things it's it's almost like when computers first came out remember that where the Internet first came out.
00:24:17:09 - 00:24:45:15
Jennifer Kluge
Let's let's shift gears a little bit. You know, talent talent is an issue out there right now, especially for more of the advanced degree fields and industries. So the talent pool is shrinking to perspectives. We have boomers leaving. We have women starting to come back. But they left during the pandemic for caregiving and work is increasing. As you mentioned, clients have money, so they're spending it.
00:24:45:15 - 00:24:58:17
Jennifer Kluge
There's more deals happening out there and there's there seems to be some burnout out there. How do you provide or continue to provide exceptional service with those kind of talent demands?
00:24:58:20 - 00:25:23:21
David Foltyn
Well, you know, this as complicated as we make it, and it's challenging, it's technology and whatnot, it's a very simple business we have it's a people business, it's lawyers and it's clients. And you want to have the best lawyers and you want to have the best clients. And we aggressively recruit top students. You know, I always distinguish between a business's values and its culture.
00:25:24:00 - 00:25:50:12
David Foltyn
Our values today are identical to the values we had 75 years ago formed, and one of the core values was get the best lawyers and pay them the best. And that's something we have a lateral recruitment team. I mentioned Abby Stover and her development team. Yep, The resources for people to grow. We want to create an environment where they grow it.
00:25:50:13 - 00:26:11:04
David Foltyn
This is a very difficult business. You know, I tell my colleagues, when I started here, we didn't have a computer, we didn't have a fax machine. There was no Federal Express. AL And you have a mobile phone. And I and I had time and you couldn't if you had my phone number at home in the region, but otherwise you couldn't.
00:26:11:06 - 00:26:37:15
David Foltyn
And it gave me time to think. I could reflect, I could process, and I put the agreement in the mail that two or three days till the other person got the agreement. And now there's so much stress, so much pressure that we're under that we really care about wellness. We really never spoken about wellness. It's one of the most important things that our development in works on.
00:26:37:17 - 00:27:08:05
David Foltyn
And the pandemic didn't help us with virus, but there were studies about excessive drinking, stress, loneliness. You couldn't see each other. The camera was off on the zoom call. I didn't know what you looked like. If you look good or you didn't look good. So we try very hard to hire the best, trained the best, and in mindful of our wellness and of course, having great work were not a bad thing for recruiting.
00:27:08:07 - 00:27:35:17
David Foltyn
You know, one thing about lawyers, they like good work, they like challenging or they like sophisticated work. And if you can provide somebody challenges and it get that, it goes a long way. Fortunately, we're not all that full time and that makes training very difficult. You know, when you're in a same room as the partner and they put their hand on the mute button and tell you why they're doing what they're about to do, that's a learning.
00:27:35:19 - 00:27:58:21
David Foltyn
Yeah, do that on a Zoom call When you're walking back from the courthouse and stopped for lunch with the partner, it will tell you what they did and why they did it. And that becomes more and more challenging. And as work life, I didn't have work life balance when I started here. No, such as work life balance becomes appropriately more important to people.
00:27:58:23 - 00:28:05:20
David Foltyn
That's something you have to provide. But again, that's our business. That's that's what we have. It's all we offer people. Yeah.
00:28:05:22 - 00:28:27:20
Jennifer Kluge
Well, let's keep on this theme, David, because there are a lot of young people out there in college right now taking the pre law with the intent to go to law school. You just describe a very intense environment. What advice would you give a young person that wants a career like yours and the success that you have that.
00:28:28:00 - 00:29:08:18
David Foltyn
Well, it it it may sound interesting, but funny. I learn accounting and finance. I don't care what your major is. You don't have to be an accountant. Finance Learn it. It's the language of business law. Everything we do is about money, and I help our clients get more of it and help our clients save it. And so speaking the language of our client is a huge and I had the good fortune of having your degree in business before I went to law school and being able to understand the client's objectives through the language of finance or accounting really is help.
00:29:08:24 - 00:29:32:17
David Foltyn
And you don't if to be an accounting major, there's accounting courses in all schools finance courses. I would also say do working habits develop really good work? Yep. But most of the people we hire being a lawyer is no harder than it was being the law student, at least in the first year. They work hard, do good work, and I always say make a lot of people respect you.
00:29:32:19 - 00:29:53:01
David Foltyn
Everyone you interact with as a potential client. On day one, when we bring our first year alone in that first year lawyers together and they all want to hear about business development, they all they all want to hear about it. First thing we tell them is, if you haven't already started in law school, it's too late as everybody you're around.
00:29:53:01 - 00:30:15:03
David Foltyn
You don't have to sell that. That doesn't mean you're selling, but you need to be liked and respected. And there's no better time to start that than with your your class. And so for many, you know, and then when you start, you know, treat everybody in the law firm like a client partner, you work for your colleagues turning the work.
00:30:15:03 - 00:30:31:20
David Foltyn
People are paying you a lot of money for your talent. And so I think that's what I would and have fun. And I'll say do something that's fun. This is such a hard job, so much stress that if you can't have fun when you're doing it, you need to look for something else.
00:30:31:24 - 00:30:57:15
Jennifer Kluge
Know in those fun in the work. It's an attitude, right? So the work's coming out. It's just like you would attack any challenge outside of work, gamify it, make it fun. If I get this done, I'm going to reward myself with this. It's really good advice. David on managing those high stress positions like that. So everyone's had some monumental moments in their career.
00:30:57:19 - 00:31:18:19
Jennifer Kluge
You have a diverse range of clients. You've been in some high profile cases, you know, things that have made a profound impact on the legal profession. Is there a particular case that taught you something that you still apply to your world today that others can learn from?
00:31:18:23 - 00:31:56:23
David Foltyn
Well, I'm going to give you an example in a minute. It wasn't me, but it was a profound moment for the law firm that I'm proud. Zero. But, you know, you mentioned I've had some great clients over the years and they become great friends. One of the things that you like more than anything is when your client starts to tell you about your kids get in school and doesn't just want legal advice, but is interested in your advice about their relationships, their personal relationships, and I think had the good fortune to make a lot of really great friends from my practice.
00:31:57:00 - 00:32:23:11
David Foltyn
I think in terms of I'm going to shift if it's okay the firm's has a longtime relationship with the Detroit Institute of Arts, and several years ago, the city of Detroit went bankrupt. Last. Yeah, Detroit's the only major market where the art belonged to the city, and the creditors wanted no art. They had pension. We could have taken a lot of sides in that.
00:32:23:11 - 00:32:50:09
David Foltyn
There's a lot of money. But we stayed with we stayed with the museum and we created legislative solutions. We had the attorney general hired enough and persuaded by us to write a legal opinion that the art did not belong to the city, but it belonged to a public trust. We advocate it. We made it clear that that accuracy would be fought tooth and nail over this issue.
00:32:50:11 - 00:33:19:01
David Foltyn
Ultimately, something called the grand bargain arose because of this, and the grand bargain was foundations by the Ford Foundation really hadn't done anything right. It's New York, and we were at the forefront of negotiating and bargain. And it was the creativity of going to the attorney general, not starting in court and starting there and persuading the attorney general of what the law should be.
00:33:19:03 - 00:33:48:00
David Foltyn
And incorrect that that when the DIA grand opened after the bankruptcy, there was a gala affair would have been in New York, looked great. And in the chairman's speech, he thanked the law firm. So for me, yeah, it happened to me because I was the chair of the shop. It wasn't me. I was just a supporter. But I think for me, that was the the the biggest how and what I've learned over the years.
00:33:48:00 - 00:34:15:07
David Foltyn
Even to go back to this is handling stress is probably the most important thing. A lawyer. Yeah your stress the teams that your clients stress and very few people can handle stress if very few people can do it. And when you can't makes everything harder. And when you can try to make even in that most serious day people, I find it profound a way that it's serious work.
00:34:15:10 - 00:34:23:24
David Foltyn
And so I think that the greatest lesson that I've learned from all of this is am stress is critical now.
00:34:24:01 - 00:34:51:21
Jennifer Kluge
Well, let's let's shift gears and talk about you as a human. Everyone usually views people in the business world by their title, you know, chairman, CEO, that can be intimidating for many. But were people just like everyone else? And how do you personally manage stress? You just said that not many people can handle stress. What do you do in demanding situations?
00:34:51:21 - 00:34:54:13
Jennifer Kluge
How do you make it fun or how do you handle that?
00:34:54:16 - 00:35:31:02
David Foltyn
I have a morning run during the week outside whenever possible. Answers not ice and the weekends. My wife Elise and I try to walk our dogs town. That really helps. I have a wonderful marriage and I love unwinding. At the end of the day, I met a cocktail or two and we have great friends, friends out. And I must tell you, there are a number of my colleagues here who are not only great friends of the family, but are fun to be around even in the most stressful situation.
00:35:31:04 - 00:35:52:10
David Foltyn
It's serious. As me, I will try to find a job. We'll try to find a way out and that's really and I, as I said earlier, I do like to get out and break bread with my colleagues, with our clients, with others. I find that having a meal together is a great way of relaxing. And look, I love to visit all of our offices.
00:35:52:14 - 00:36:12:13
David Foltyn
I'll be in one of my offices tomorrow, be a dinner with all the partners and all that journey, like I'll be in another office the next day. And that really is a ritual for me. Yeah. And I love sports. I got seven kids. I watched my kids play sports. I coached sports. And that's another thing that but.
00:36:12:15 - 00:36:20:17
Jennifer Kluge
That's a different kind of stress, right? David, about a couple more personal questions here. Do you have any quirky pet peeves?
00:36:20:20 - 00:36:48:00
David Foltyn
I do. And that I share them with my wife and my vice chair, Alan Schwarz. Let's stand where he is. Remember, Will, me and I am a tiger and I, I don't like misspelled words. I get to admit that, you know, there are words that have become words through this usage. And that bothers me a lot. And I and and Alan and I joke about it.
00:36:48:02 - 00:36:54:02
David Foltyn
We see more and more of it and very bright people by that. And that's a pretty.
00:36:54:04 - 00:37:00:15
Jennifer Kluge
Well I'll have to get you a badge as the grammar police look down your lapel.
00:37:00:17 - 00:37:20:21
David Foltyn
Well when I look what I did when I did my car burnings, we would have drafting session, the underwriters, the lawyers and we would all be around the table. And I would ask who went to parochial school? And inevitably there's 15 people there. There either went to parochial school and I said, You are officially in charge of grammar.
00:37:21:00 - 00:37:28:00
David Foltyn
You went through a school where you had to learn a grammar. So you raise your hand whenever there's an issue and we'll follow your.
00:37:28:06 - 00:37:33:21
Jennifer Kluge
That's funny. That's funny. Do you have any hidden talents or unique hobbies?
00:37:33:23 - 00:38:02:16
David Foltyn
Well, I no longer, but I was a bass player in Robin when I was a teenager, but that wasn't so much a talent as a hobby. And I haven't picked one up in 45 years. Although I do have a son who's a symphonic bass player who really is good though. But there but that that was a long, long time ago.
00:38:02:19 - 00:38:05:04
David Foltyn
So whenever I say that I'm living in the past.
00:38:05:06 - 00:38:19:14
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah. No, David, this is, you know, kind of a goofy question here. We we will learn a lot about you as a human. And let's end on this question. How do you define happiness?
00:38:19:16 - 00:38:44:10
David Foltyn
It's a great question. Being Rog, family health, where, you know, you can't be happy. I mean, I like you had a great expression. You would say that a healthy man has a million problems in a sick man. He has one problem. Yeah. Laughing, family and friends, being in the moment, doing what I do. I often stress that I did early on our conversation, like what you're doing, you better do something.
00:38:44:15 - 00:38:46:07
David Foltyn
And moments like these making it.
00:38:46:09 - 00:39:12:01
Jennifer Kluge
Yeah, yeah. And sharing knowledge for the next generation or for those that who might be struggling. That's is quite wonderful. David, you have been amazing. Thank you so much for your insights and congratulations on all your success and future success. We know we're rooting for you. We know you're going to just continue to do amazing things for your firm and we just tell you to keep shining.
00:39:12:01 - 00:39:14:17
Jennifer Kluge
Right. Thank you so much for being on the program.
00:39:14:19 - 00:39:18:05
David Foltyn
And thank you for honoring us, letting me be.
00:39:18:07 - 00:39:20:03
Jennifer Kluge
Wonderful. Have a good day, everyone.