Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Interviews with top marketers sharing tactical tips, strategies, and lessons learned to help you grow your business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt, founder of Exit Five, former CMO, and author of Founder Brand. Learn more at exitfive.com
Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to the Dave Gerhardt Show.
Dave [0:00:02]: Alright.
Dave [0:00:17]: I'm excited to do this episode, Ish Jolly is here, and she's the Founder and CEO of OpenSponsorship.
Dave [0:00:23]: And when we first got connected, I was like, this is really cool to me because I like marketing and I like sports and I always wondered how deals get done.
Dave [0:00:33]: I was like, I don't know if it makes sense to have you on the pod because this isn't really B2b and you're like, no actually a lot of what we do is B2b, and I was like, heck, yes.
Dave [0:00:41]: This is I'm excited to have you on.
Dave [0:00:43]: So first, can you give me some background on you You're...
Dave [0:00:46]: You, have impressive Impressive resume here.
Dave [0:00:48]: I got in my prep note CEO of OpenSponsorship, which is a marketplace that connects brands with athletes and influencers for sponsorship deals.
Dave [0:00:55]: You've been on Forbes, thirty under thirty, Oxford A alarm, You are a former sports agent, which we should dive into that.
Dave [0:01:02]: And now OpenSponsorship works with thirty thousand athletes across a hundred sports, Olympia, NFL players and niche sports figures.
Dave [0:01:09]: Can you tell me about the brief overview of how you got into this creating OpenSponsorship going from an agent to here and why this is an interesting business.
Dave [0:01:19]: Basically, set the stage for us with the business, and then I have a bunch of things we're gonna get into.
Ishveen [0:01:24]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:01:24]: Absolutely.
Ishveen [0:01:24]: Well thirty.
Ishveen [0:01:25]: Thanks for having me on.
Ishveen [0:01:26]: So, yeah.
Ishveen [0:01:27]: I starts like career.
Ishveen [0:01:28]: Was, but I got into sports because I played a lot.
Ishveen [0:01:31]: So I was keen student Athlete at University.
Ishveen [0:01:33]: I know you love sports as well so then.
Dave [0:01:36]: What did you play?
Dave [0:01:36]: Or your quest equestrian?
Dave [0:01:37]: Is that...
Dave [0:01:38]: Do you say that?
Dave [0:01:39]: Do you play equestrian?
Ishveen [0:01:40]: You pay I do question think so I was mostly so up in England hence the accent, and I mostly played Neville and Cricket at University, but honestly, like, if there was a spot on a team or a tennis racket or anything to hand and, like, I'm in, let me go.
Ishveen [0:01:57]: So Love sports graduated from Oxford study economics and management was very much supposed to be on a, quite a different trajectory became a management consultant, and then realized like my passion for sport was beyond, kind of just on the field, so moved to India thought, you know, from a piss my parents off once.
Ishveen [0:02:16]: Let me do it twice, moved to India became a sports agent.
Ishveen [0:02:19]: And the rest this history fell off with sponsorship as a form of marketing.
Ishveen [0:02:22]: And thus forward thought why are not a better way to do it and then very naive they set up home sponsored sponsorship about ten years ago?
Dave [0:02:30]: That's super cool.
Dave [0:02:31]: And how does your business like make money?
Ishveen [0:02:34]: So we essentially as you can imagine, ten years of running a startup up grown how many.
Ishveen [0:02:40]: We've evolved Over time.
Ishveen [0:02:42]: So first, we started same self service marketplace.
Ishveen [0:02:45]: So we charged...
Ishveen [0:02:47]: But I suppose the business model has been the same, But we we charge our brands a kind of management fee to run everything for them, which we, you know, we can talk about later, but big reason for a lot of our learnings and lessons it's, like, getting involved on the strategy piece.
Ishveen [0:03:01]: So we charge a monthly, like, management fee, subscription platform, whatever you wanna call it.
Ishveen [0:03:06]: And then we take a cut of the deal from the athlete influencer side and so that's our revenue.
Dave [0:03:12]: Is this becoming more relevant now, and in the context of B2B because of what's happening with Ai and search and how people find in research and get information about brands.
Dave [0:03:24]: I'm feeling a pull in our business of just like, more in person stuff.
Dave [0:03:29]: I'm seeing CMOs spending more on out of home, again, trying to do more interesting things other than just put the credit card down and spend more money with Google Meta, Tv.
Dave [0:03:44]: Is there a trend there that Am I getting it?
Dave [0:03:47]: Is there anything I'm I'm getting at with, like, wanting to be everywhere in in person?
Ishveen [0:03:52]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:03:52]: I think the trend is there.
Ishveen [0:03:54]: I would actually say interestingly.
Ishveen [0:03:56]: I think it started join Covid.
Ishveen [0:03:58]: When I speak to a lot of, like, creators.
Ishveen [0:04:01]: I'm almost like exam.
Ishveen [0:04:03]: How did you psych your day job and become an influencer?
Ishveen [0:04:06]: And I'd say, like, seven out of ten, say they started in Covid because everyone's was at home and, we became more addicted to our phones, we started following social media or people became influenced as more.
Ishveen [0:04:19]: And so whether they took off afterwards or whatever else.
Ishveen [0:04:22]: And I think that was probably like trend one where CMOs and, like, decision makers were scrolling so many more hours online.
Ishveen [0:04:32]: And then, obviously, also, that was the rise of like Netflix and everything else, which meant exactly to your point, like, attention I think live sports obviously has an amazing following.
Ishveen [0:04:41]: But what Covid did to live sports moving everyone to like Netflix in that moment.
Ishveen [0:04:46]: It's come back, but it's not fully come back.
Ishveen [0:04:48]: So I think Covid was definitely a first.
Ishveen [0:04:50]: And then I think Ai for what you're saying, like, that authenticity is absolutely huge.
Ishveen [0:04:56]: And I think for the B2B side, it's what we've seen is that mix of social on, off offline like So you might have an event Great.
Ishveen [0:05:05]: Before you'd have that event, and it was invested.
Ishveen [0:05:08]: Now, you can invite ten people, you could turn up, recorded life podcast.
Ishveen [0:05:12]: Now suddenly loads of people are seeing it.
Ishveen [0:05:14]: Ten influencers show up.
Ishveen [0:05:16]: And so the amplification through create an...
Dave [0:05:21]: Yeah.
Dave [0:05:21]: Through social has been like this connection.
Dave [0:05:23]: So so for me, I love sports, the the number one sport in my life right now is golf.
Dave [0:05:29]: Mh.
Dave [0:05:29]: And golf is a really interesting one from a brand standpoint because it's much more...
Dave [0:05:33]: It is more individual based, You know, if play for the Boston Celtic.
Dave [0:05:36]: You might have your own brand deals, but the team has those sponsorships, but in golf.
Dave [0:05:41]: I'm Dave, and I might have...
Dave [0:05:42]: I love it because I I come from kinda enterprise, software and B2B, and tech, And I'd love seeing, like, a random PGA tour player with, you know, some like, I'm, what the heck is that?
Dave [0:05:53]: Like Google and it's, like, some, you know, cybersecurity, like, Ai company or, you know, there's...
Dave [0:05:59]: I'm was just thinking of a recent PGA tour winner Matt fit.
Dave [0:06:02]: Patrick has workday on his shirt.
Dave [0:06:04]: But what's interesting is it's like, you don't just get that exposure on Tv during that tournament.
Dave [0:06:09]: It is exactly what you said.
Dave [0:06:11]: It's not just the Covid thing.
Dave [0:06:12]: It's it's because of social media everyone now can be their own influencer.
Dave [0:06:16]: And so you go to his Instagram, and he's filming content with them, and there's more brand activation.
Dave [0:06:23]: There's more things that are that are possible.
Dave [0:06:25]: I was just listen them talk about this guy Tom, I don't know if you're familiar with Golf at all, but this guy Fleet would, signing a big brand deal with a company, and I never thought about it is, like, what you get as a sponsor if you're sponsoring him is like, you then get a couple times a year where you can say, hey, we rent out this private place.
Dave [0:06:40]: He's gonna be there.
Dave [0:06:42]: You can...
Dave [0:06:42]: We were gonna bring fifty of our top, you know, if you're deloitte, whatever you're gonna bring fifty of your top clients to that and create a bunch of content and and so I'm like, okay.
Dave [0:06:50]: This is interesting.
Dave [0:06:50]: So I think our audience, there's a handful of people that are, you know, billion add billion dollar plus companies, CMOs at listeners.
Dave [0:06:58]: But I think the majority The reason I wanna have you on is because I wonder if there's a middle ground here where is there a play where you can...
Dave [0:07:05]: I don't wanna say micro influencer, but is there some middle level here, and I I kinda see you nodding along to this.
Dave [0:07:11]: And I I wanna unpack that a little bit and what that might look like for a B2B brand.
Dave [0:07:14]: So if I'm cybersecurity software company in this world, and I'm trying to think about ways we can grow in twenty twenty six twenty twenty seven.
Dave [0:07:21]: How do I work sports into that equation?
Ishveen [0:07:25]: Hundred percent, and I love the question because especially after the classic move, which was Like talking about like Tommy Fleet were their I'm like, well those budgets I don't have.
Ishveen [0:07:31]: So it is really...
Dave [0:07:33]: Always.
Dave [0:07:33]: Do.
Dave [0:07:34]: We do.
Dave [0:07:34]: I mean, we do, like, every webinar we ever do.
Dave [0:07:36]: It's like, no matter any example that I give someone always gonna say well, of course.
Dave [0:07:40]: It'd be easy if I was mastercard.
Dave [0:07:41]: And I'm like, yeah, but, no.
Dave [0:07:43]: This does exist, and this is your whole business.
Dave [0:07:44]: I wanna talk about it.
Ishveen [0:07:46]: Absolutely And in imperfect.
Ishveen [0:07:47]: So a hundred percent, And I'd say, I think what sometimes people might miss like Tell me Sleep word, of course, you pick up any day if you have the budget, golf winner, whatever else.
Ishveen [0:07:58]: But the thing being is, like the B2B authentic side, when you think about athletes, especially like, they invest in businesses.
Ishveen [0:08:05]: They have, like, their inside hustle.
Ishveen [0:08:07]: Actually, most of these golfers are structured as of probably like an Llc anyway.
Ishveen [0:08:13]: They have, like, really complicated tax structures because whenever they play in a different country if they win they have to pay tax there.
Ishveen [0:08:19]: So there's almost like, how do you create authenticity to your business?
Ishveen [0:08:24]: So that's the first point which is, like, don't just see it as, like, well, it was a billboard or it's like a media day because I'm sure that I'd like to think if they're not, they should call us.
Ishveen [0:08:35]: But I...
Ishveen [0:08:35]: I'm sure that all of these sponsorships have got some my interesting integration.
Ishveen [0:08:40]: Like, my favorites, like, you know, the Nfl with Aws where it's, like, all the stats behind the game powered by Aws it's like such a perfect.
Dave [0:08:49]: Yeah.
Dave [0:08:49]: Like the in golf.
Dave [0:08:50]: It's like, the masters and Ibm.
Dave [0:08:51]: Ibm does all of their video and stats and data, and so they have the best website because they have access to all that.
Dave [0:08:59]: Is that is that what you mean by being off so authenticity could come in there's some deeper brand level integration.
Ishveen [0:09:07]: Yeah.
Dave [0:09:07]: But it could also come with Hey, we're choosing to work with this athlete because this person has a particular backstory that's interesting that relates us in some way.
Ishveen [0:09:17]: Hundred percent.
Ishveen [0:09:17]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:09:17]: Perfect, which will get to maybe on the medical side that could be quite interesting but So for us, I'll give you a couple of like real life, like, examples of what we're working with right now.
Ishveen [0:09:26]: So two brands that come to mind who we're working with a company called Summit who they're in insurance company in Canada.
Ishveen [0:09:33]: And there are no, you know, insurance is all about, like, protecting yourself from risk who takes a lot of risk, skier, or, like, snow borders or people like that.
Ishveen [0:09:44]: So there's your tie in, but they as a company, to your point, they've have, they're that they're like, one of the biggest founder Own.
Ishveen [0:09:52]: They've raised a bit of money.
Ishveen [0:09:53]: But so, you know, it's like, what can we do with, like, a ten to fifteen k check?
Ishveen [0:09:58]: And that can go quite a long way.
Ishveen [0:10:00]: Why can it go quite a long way because b2b.
Ishveen [0:10:03]: You need stuff to talk about.
Ishveen [0:10:05]: I mean, every business needs stuff to talk about, but, like, you can't just be like, hey.
Ishveen [0:10:10]: Here's, you know, we at web.
Ishveen [0:10:12]: Like, we've refreshed our website.
Ishveen [0:10:14]: Great among pairs.
Ishveen [0:10:15]: It's like, okay.
Ishveen [0:10:16]: Here's a story, about one of our case studies or users or whatever else And so here's just another angle.
Ishveen [0:10:22]: And what we have found is that, like, again, actually, what's interesting about going with smaller budgets is.
Ishveen [0:10:28]: You might not even need the athlete or the influencer post on their social because most of their audience is not your customer.
Ishveen [0:10:35]: But what you want is the link between you and them.
Ishveen [0:10:39]: And when you don't get them to post, it's actually even cheaper.
Ishveen [0:10:42]: And so we just did this a company calls sport radar.
Ishveen [0:10:45]: They are, like, the data providers from most broadcast sport kind of flick similar to what you were saying.
Ishveen [0:10:50]: They literally gave us a five budget for March madness, and they were, like, what can you do?
Ishveen [0:10:55]: And so we got three coaches, who produced videos of, like, this is how we use data in our, like, you know, March madness campaign didn't need to post it.
Ishveen [0:11:04]: Already really authentic.
Ishveen [0:11:05]: They knew the the company, and they go out and push that through case studies.
Ishveen [0:11:09]: And obviously, that performs just so much better because get someone else telling your story.
Dave [0:11:14]: Well, it's almost like getting them to post.
Dave [0:11:16]: We talk about this.
Dave [0:11:18]: So we have a sponsorship business with my company with X exit vibe.
Dave [0:11:20]: Our differences is, our audiences, marketers and so our sponsors are people who wanna reach B2B marketers, and We've been doing this for four years now and I've learned so much about what works because a lot of the companies at first would wanna would wanna work with me and have me because...
Dave [0:11:34]: Before Exit Five, I had a big following.
Dave [0:11:36]: So it's was like, let's get Dave to post this and if he posts this ebook, we're gonna get thousands of downloads, and it just doesn't doesn't work like that.
Dave [0:11:44]: And it's very hard to especially in B2B move product with a single post because the deal cycle in B2B is could be years.
Dave [0:11:53]: It could it's it's the average that we we heard on the pot is two hundred eleven days from from Linkedin.
Dave [0:11:58]: So me posting, like, check out this piece of software, like, no one's gonna just go rush to buy that.
Dave [0:12:03]: And so then it has to be, like, well, what game are we playing?
Dave [0:12:06]: And it's more of, like,
Dave Gerhardt [0:12:08]: do you
Dave [0:12:09]: have a key message right now, could we be an avenue to help you?
Dave [0:12:12]: Like, could our sponsor should be a way to help you promote a message.
Dave [0:12:14]: Right?
Dave [0:12:15]: And then instead of, like, a direct response offer?
Dave [0:12:18]: And so you saying, like, yeah, if I'm gonna work in an athlete?
Dave [0:12:20]: Like, what what's an athlete gonna do to if an athlete goes to their Instagram and post an offer about some, you know, ebook and B2b, like, of course, that audience is gonna explode.
Dave [0:12:29]: But if I can sign an agreement with someone and I can have film and videos and content.
Dave [0:12:34]: I'm basically, now able to trade on their brand and use them in my marketing.
Dave [0:12:39]: That's like a signal.
Dave [0:12:40]: It can be a signal for brand awareness for power for influence, and then hopefully also there's ways to integrate.
Dave [0:12:47]: What I also think is interesting is not just going for the biggest influencers that you can find in in any niche.
Dave [0:12:54]: It's like, what's cool about social media is there's a whole cast of if I just open my Instagram and I click on my four you page.
Dave [0:13:00]: There's people that ten thousand, fifteen thousand twenty thousand followers that, you know, maybe probably are still...
Dave [0:13:06]: This is different from where you do just trying to make a point, but, like, are probably still working full time in a different job, but they're trying to, like, Yeah.
Dave [0:13:13]: Become a content creator and be an influencer.
Dave [0:13:15]: So they're often willing to do deals with you for lower dollar amounts, and then you can actually find a way to test into this.
Dave [0:13:22]: Is there anything similar that you've learned on on your end with with athletes.
Dave [0:13:25]: Like, if I wanted to advertise...
Dave [0:13:28]: If Wanna say hey, Exit Five is sponsoring PGA tour player, like, there's gotta be a way I could have some kind of, like, third tier level PGA tour player that I could I could put Exit Five on on his shirt.
Dave [0:13:38]: Right?
Ishveen [0:13:39]: Hundred percent.
Ishveen [0:13:39]: There's like a few things actually while that we've learned and of over time.
Ishveen [0:13:42]: So full disclosure, we started athletes, but today, actually, fifty percent of our deals are athletes still, which is what we love, but, like, fifty percent is not athlete.
Ishveen [0:13:50]: So financial influences, mom influences, I'd say apart from beauty and fashion, we take every niche.
Ishveen [0:13:56]: Podcast broadcasters and things like that.
Ishveen [0:13:58]: Right?
Ishveen [0:13:59]: And so I think why that's happened is because athletes are really good for, like, story.
Ishveen [0:14:03]: Golf is exception because you're reaching that CMO, Cx o, which is right it's so valuable.
Ishveen [0:14:08]: But for others it's, like...
Ishveen [0:14:10]: You're using that kind of name image like this.
Ishveen [0:14:12]: But then someone else could be for audience.
Ishveen [0:14:14]: So for example, like, people will sponsor your podcast for the audience.
Ishveen [0:14:19]: But as you said, like, there's only so many times that that Dave can hit them the same message so they get...
Ishveen [0:14:25]: You get them like some funnel, and then Yep.
Ishveen [0:14:28]: They might use an athlete the story or vice versa.
Ishveen [0:14:31]: Right?
Ishveen [0:14:32]: You might find it the cheapest to acquire customers leads through, like, Facebook.
Ishveen [0:14:36]: But there's only so many times you can hit them with the same, like, ads, and then this is where, kind of the uniqueness this comes in So I'd say, like, I think that into interplay of, like, well, what's your success metric?
Ishveen [0:14:47]: What is your limiting factor.
Ishveen [0:14:48]: You know, we did a campaign with glass door?
Ishveen [0:14:50]: And it's, like, you have the million people in your Crm.
Ishveen [0:14:53]: The problem is is that when you send out an email if it's boring, whereas like sports allows you...
Ishveen [0:14:58]: You know, everyone's talking about the next.
Ishveen [0:14:59]: Everyone's talking about fifa for world cup, like, be part of that conversation and to your point now, How can I be part of that conversation without spending a million dollars?
Ishveen [0:15:08]: Let's get a basketball content creator.
Ishveen [0:15:10]: Let's get an analyst.
Ishveen [0:15:11]: Let's get a Gee lead payer.
Ishveen [0:15:13]: Let's get a college player.
Ishveen [0:15:14]: Let's get someone who's in the conversation.
Ishveen [0:15:16]: But yes.
Ishveen [0:15:18]: Not Jay B, if you can afford it great.
Ishveen [0:15:20]: But if you can't, then there's all these other people who are relevant.
Dave [0:15:24]: Yeah.
Dave [0:15:24]: Okay.
Dave [0:15:25]: So since you expand beyond sports and work with mom influencers, B2B marketing influencers, say it whatever it is.
Dave [0:15:31]: One of the things that comes up a lot is, like, a lot of B2B marketers believe in influencer, strategy in influencer marketing today, but they often say, like, hey, we wanna do an influencer campaign.
Dave [0:15:43]: Like, how do you find influencers.
Ishveen [0:15:45]: I would say, I think doing one and doing one well is very two different things.
Ishveen [0:15:50]: It's very easy.
Dave [0:15:51]: Agreed.
Ishveen [0:15:52]: Okay.
Ishveen [0:15:52]: So I think let's do it well.
Ishveen [0:15:54]: Let's say we're defining it by doing it well.
Dave [0:15:56]: What would not well look like.
Ishveen [0:15:59]: Not well is the wrong budget, probably too bigger budget, which means that you don't wanna go again.
Ishveen [0:16:05]: You're like, there's a budget to test, and then there's a budget that is not a test budget and you fail, and you you burn.
Ishveen [0:16:12]: So I would say test budget fine.
Ishveen [0:16:15]: You can do it not well and learn, and that's absolutely allowed.
Ishveen [0:16:18]: Sure.
Ishveen [0:16:18]: Right?
Dave [0:16:20]: Sure.
Dave [0:16:20]: Well, let's just make up a number.
Dave [0:16:21]: We'll say ten grand versus hundred grand.
Dave [0:16:22]: Right?
Dave [0:16:23]: Like, on that scale, ten grand, we're gonna do something and learn.
Dave [0:16:26]: Okay?
Dave [0:16:26]: Budget could be one mistake.
Dave [0:16:28]: What about as far as, like, content.
Dave [0:16:30]: Right?
Dave [0:16:31]: Because I think it's like, this is where it comes down to...
Dave [0:16:34]: This is where I've seen most things break, which is, like, well now, hold on.
Dave [0:16:37]: Hold on.
Dave [0:16:37]: We're spending money on something like, we wouldn't run adwords campaigns without a landing page and a call to action.
Dave [0:16:44]: And so I've had people that wanna work with me, and it's like, okay.
Dave [0:16:47]: We want you to post on this date, and here's the ebook and here is the Ut perfectly track link.
Dave [0:16:53]: I'm like, dude no one's gonna click on that.
Dave [0:16:54]: So we have to come up with a campaign It's like the offer is the piece that I'm trying to get at.
Ishveen [0:16:59]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:16:59]: I think so my second thing for, like, that you need to do upfront with or without a partner.
Ishveen [0:17:04]: Right?
Ishveen [0:17:05]: So this is kind of why we went into being more like a tech enabled agency is because people were coming exactly that.
Ishveen [0:17:11]: Here's what we wanna do and we're, like, this is not gonna work.
Ishveen [0:17:13]: And then it doesn't work, and they're like, okay.
Ishveen [0:17:15]: Thank you so much.
Ishveen [0:17:16]: It didn't work, and it's like, oh, that's take my hair out.
Ishveen [0:17:18]: And so what is success?
Ishveen [0:17:21]: Now if you're, like, I wanna get landing page views.
Ishveen [0:17:24]: I just don't know if influencer is the right method for that.
Ishveen [0:17:28]: It might be after you've tried and tested that influencer, their audience is bought in, and then you can put pee, and actually, in fact, they would never be the right person for it.
Ishveen [0:17:37]: Their comes
Dave [0:17:38]: what's a proper goal then?
Dave [0:17:39]: Because I think so I'm most likely the goal is gonna be like, well, I want...
Dave [0:17:43]: I want more people to buy my product.
Dave [0:17:45]: Yeah.
Dave [0:17:45]: But getting someone to just post something doesn't magically get people to buy your product either how do we help coach people on the right the right offer an influencer match?
Ishveen [0:17:56]: So I would say, kinda mentioned it before, but, like, you have to think about your whole infrastructure.
Ishveen [0:18:01]: Do you have a P agency.
Ishveen [0:18:02]: Do you have a media paid budget.
Ishveen [0:18:04]: Do you have a very good web I email marketing team.
Ishveen [0:18:08]: Do you have a podcast agency?
Ishveen [0:18:10]: Like, who do you have?
Ishveen [0:18:11]: What are you spending and what might need help and then influencer like a content creator kind of sits as like, a, basically, like he's like, like a content generation machine feeding into those, not in isolation, typically.
Ishveen [0:18:27]: And I was gonna say unless you sponsor someone really big, but even then, like, if you built a whole campaign, around Gill Branson, You would need all of those things to be working.
Ishveen [0:18:36]: You could put into your contract.
Ishveen [0:18:38]: Hey, we're gonna secure a five minute interview with a top media company to interview him on our product, but you'd need a P person to go and get you that.
Ishveen [0:18:48]: You would need to create content to put into emails and whatever.
Ishveen [0:18:51]: And so I think to your point.
Ishveen [0:18:53]: When someone does all of that work.
Ishveen [0:18:55]: It's also really dangerous because they're, like, look, how many hours and look how much time we've spent trying to create this landing page in this and this and this and we're, like, just let the content do it thing and then use the content where you need it.
Ishveen [0:19:06]: Right?
Ishveen [0:19:06]: And the most powerful thing you could do if your B2b might be giving that content to your CEO to post on Linkedin with a really clever message.
Dave [0:19:14]: Right?
Dave [0:19:14]: Because it could just be a signaling thing.
Dave [0:19:16]: Right?
Dave [0:19:16]: It could just be like, holy shit.
Dave [0:19:18]: They got Jake.
Dave [0:19:18]: Like, Ja Runs sponsoring workday or Exit Five or whatever, and and especially with Linkedin, you can run thought leader ads.
Dave [0:19:25]: You can...
Dave [0:19:26]: It doesn't have to be them promoting.
Dave [0:19:27]: You can basically...
Dave [0:19:28]: You're signing an agreement to use their name in like this in your marketing, which is, like, one of the oldest tricks in the book, I guess.
Ishveen [0:19:35]: And the other thing I'm seeing is when people comes out and they're, like, we're really good, tiktok.
Ishveen [0:19:40]: But we're gonna with you try Youtube.
Ishveen [0:19:42]: And we're also gonna try influencers.
Ishveen [0:19:44]: And I'm like, no.
Ishveen [0:19:45]: If you're good at Tiktok, let's find some people on tiktok to do the stuff that you already know to create content the way you want.
Ishveen [0:19:52]: And then once we've got the person, we might then use them to...
Ishveen [0:19:56]: It's almost too many differentials all at the same time, so it creates the difficulty test.
Ishveen [0:20:02]: And then there's also persona.
Ishveen [0:20:04]: Right?
Ishveen [0:20:04]: Because it really is quite hard to know...
Ishveen [0:20:07]: Like I get it.
Ishveen [0:20:08]: Like, I'm in favor of people coming us and say, look, my is really serious.
Ishveen [0:20:12]: Let's find someone who's quite funny.
Ishveen [0:20:14]: To create a piece of content.
Ishveen [0:20:16]: And, you know, my marketing team can't do that.
Ishveen [0:20:18]: So this...
Ishveen [0:20:19]: But that goes about to it.
Ishveen [0:20:20]: Okay.
Ishveen [0:20:21]: Let's spend your test budget on that.
Ishveen [0:20:22]: Definitely don't spend your whole brand ambassador of budget to get, like, Kevin Hull and it flops because you realize, like, being serious is really important to you at a brand.
Dave [0:20:32]: Yeah.
Dave [0:20:32]: That's interesting.
Dave [0:20:33]: So that all has to match.
Dave [0:20:34]: I think the other thing is just time.
Dave [0:20:36]: I think the length here, especially in B2B matters, and it's, like, the reach and frequency of of seeing this stuff over time is what's gonna move the needle not like, did we make one video with jail Ja B2B in and, like, hope that it goes viral and, like, what if it didn't verse, like...
Dave [0:20:52]: Okay.
Dave [0:20:53]: Is someone gonna wear our stuff and post our stuff, even in our, you know, the way we've evolved our sponsorship business over the years is now, we don't do any, like, a la carte, you know, one off stuff.
Dave [0:21:04]: The companies that see the best results with our sponsorships is, like, one company been renewing.
Dave [0:21:08]: And they've been doing three years in a row annually, and it's, like the reach and frequency and time of that is what's moving the needle not, like, one.
Dave [0:21:16]: I think there was an example of, do you remember when Snoop dogg said he was, like quitting smoking or something, and it was, like, actually just to announce like, a partnership with Solo stove, like, the, like, outside little fire pit.
Dave [0:21:29]: And that close went viral because everyone's like, what's what?
Dave [0:21:32]: Snoop dogg Quit smoking.
Dave [0:21:33]: Like, actually, no I didn't, but I partnered with soul something and it was like, I think they posted about it, and it basically provided a big dip in near and short term sales, but then after that, it was basically, like, it it never happened.
Dave [0:21:43]: And I I think that's not the call.
Ishveen [0:21:46]: I think so exactly to that point where even when you have, like a Spokesperson.
Ishveen [0:21:50]: It also ties to your messaging as a company because I'm sure the brand you mentioned his sponsored you for three years.
Ishveen [0:21:56]: The stuff you're doing in your ad reads are talking about today is so different to what you did three years ago I mean, I know you nod it when I said, like, we've evolved as a company.
Ishveen [0:22:05]: And so a great example is we worked with I...
Ishveen [0:22:07]: We worked with a health company.
Ishveen [0:22:09]: If you do your job well, they've got enough patience, and then they need to move on to a next problem then they need more doctors, and then they might need more financing then they might need more customers again.
Ishveen [0:22:19]: And so it's almost like, how do you...
Ishveen [0:22:22]: And this is what I love about Social, which is I can't even imagine the days where you used to create an ad and it would run for a year.
Ishveen [0:22:28]: Whereas, like today, it's like, you can literally get someone to create U for you even if it's a long term deal.
Ishveen [0:22:35]: And what you're seeing in Christmas time is very different to, You know, that might just be thank you very much for being great.
Ishveen [0:22:41]: This is like earnings calls, this is whatever else.
Ishveen [0:22:44]: And so I think the idea that one of the things that I love about the way that we do things, there's a lot of this testing and learning.
Ishveen [0:22:49]: And even if you like someone.
Ishveen [0:22:51]: Do three month deals.
Ishveen [0:22:53]: It can be a long term partnership, but you kind of keep them honest to keep performing as well, especially in our with athletes and influencers, like, if they get bored, do they go away Mia or they delete their social media and you're like, oh my god.
Ishveen [0:23:05]: I'm in a contract with them and they've gone private because there's some news around them.
Ishveen [0:23:09]: And so I love the idea of, like, the short burst and sadly fat athletes.
Ishveen [0:23:14]: It's a bit of a...
Ishveen [0:23:15]: A sad thing, but, like, you can use that content for so long six months when you got one post.
Ishveen [0:23:20]: I'm sure people are always constantly And we we'll do it.
Ishveen [0:23:23]: It we'll be like.
Ishveen [0:23:24]: We run Dave show and it'll be like, in six months time.
Ishveen [0:23:26]: Right?
Ishveen [0:23:26]: And there's that's like part of the content game?
Dave [0:23:29]: Right.
Dave [0:23:29]: Or even just, like getting the content from this can be something.
Dave [0:23:31]: Yeah.
Dave [0:23:32]: Do you have specific examples or advice for the B2B marketers listening to this that maybe wanna explore this channel?
Ishveen [0:23:42]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:23:42]: Well, one, I think you just definitely do something influencer.
Ishveen [0:23:45]: There's so many influencer categories that it's definitely worth doing it.
Ishveen [0:23:49]: It's really fun thing externally and internally.
Ishveen [0:23:52]: I would say when...
Ishveen [0:23:54]: But by that, I mean, having people talk about you.
Ishveen [0:23:57]: I mean, it's like journalism.
Ishveen [0:23:58]: Right?
Ishveen [0:23:58]: Like, no one's ever upset with your CEO wants more P, your state investors want more P.
Ishveen [0:24:03]: Your customers are happy with it.
Ishveen [0:24:05]: This is like a form of P that doesn't rely on journalism.
Dave [0:24:08]: Yeah.
Dave [0:24:08]: But what are the variables in success of that?
Dave [0:24:11]: Is it like, you as a brand having an idea of what type of content you, like, who drives that content strategy?
Dave [0:24:18]: For example, like, a brand reaches out to me and they just want me to post an ebook?
Dave [0:24:21]: That's different than like, hey, we actually have this really creative idea.
Dave [0:24:24]: Like, So you you live in Vermont, and you do this thing.
Dave [0:24:27]: And you like this thing.
Dave [0:24:27]: And so the brand really relates, Like, what's the variable for success there that people need to know about?
Ishveen [0:24:33]: I think to them it's...
Ishveen [0:24:33]: They need to ideally know when they come into have a conversation, like, for us.
Ishveen [0:24:38]: Who's the audience you're targeting?
Ishveen [0:24:40]: And if it's someone different to who you already have that you're saturated with, like, kind of who is it and why?
Ishveen [0:24:46]: So audience makes a big difference.
Ishveen [0:24:48]: And then like, what is success?
Ishveen [0:24:50]: And ideally, it's as up funnel as possible.
Ishveen [0:24:53]: So, like, you know, is it is it just U that you can share that you can vote on your website.
Ishveen [0:24:59]: Is it to build a bit more of a social media following because your investors care about it?
Ishveen [0:25:02]: Whatever, like, I would say those two things.
Ishveen [0:25:05]: And then ideally, some level of budget or what are you gonna be happy with?
Ishveen [0:25:09]: Because we have had brands who are, like, I wanna spend ten k and then they're unhappy if it's not an A list, and like, those two things they match up.
Ishveen [0:25:17]: After that, I would say, us as an agency let us do our job, Dave, if it was you, you're creative enough.
Ishveen [0:25:24]: I think if you got those three metrics, you would probably come back with a campaign that was creative enough.
Ishveen [0:25:29]: For them.
Ishveen [0:25:30]: And then there's a bit of tinkering incurring.
Ishveen [0:25:32]: Okay.
Ishveen [0:25:32]: What are the do's and don'ts?
Ishveen [0:25:33]: What are the disclosures?
Ishveen [0:25:34]: What are the hashtags that you definitely wanna put in?
Ishveen [0:25:37]: Is there anything that, you know, you wanna stay away from politics so you wanna stay away from certain things?
Ishveen [0:25:42]: But I think it's up to each individual.
Ishveen [0:25:44]: That's what I have seen from our side that has been massive success for us It's like, the campaign for an equestrian is very different to a influencer, Western Union and there's a a client.
Ishveen [0:25:54]: And we've done campaigns with Nfl players, and we've also done campaigns with pat who've landed in New York and they give financial advice on my building wealth.
Ishveen [0:26:02]: And those two videos are completely different, but it's for the same campaign.
Ishveen [0:26:06]: It's driving the zero transfer fee.
Ishveen [0:26:08]: They feel different.
Ishveen [0:26:09]: They look different.
Ishveen [0:26:10]: They have different audiences.
Ishveen [0:26:11]: And it would be wrong if Western Union had come to us and which they did it the first time I was like, here's the brief.
Ishveen [0:26:17]: The second time they were like, okay.
Ishveen [0:26:19]: You guys decide a little bit more.
Dave [0:26:21]: Yeah.
Dave [0:26:21]: I get a, I I went last week.
Dave [0:26:23]: It's like, hey.
Dave [0:26:24]: We'll send you to Salesforce event, and you'll go to Salesforce event and you're gonna post these, but, you, you know, we'll comp your ticket, but you gotta post these four takeaways from the event.
Dave [0:26:34]: I'm like, what's the point of that?
Dave [0:26:36]: Is it is it just surround sound?
Dave [0:26:38]: Like if you just get a bunch of influencers to post about the event that helps with surround sound versus, like, wouldn't you get more from that if we actually collaborated and did something that is more authentic to me and is on brand to me.
Dave [0:26:51]: Now Granted, they're probably just blasting that out to a bunch of people in the database.
Dave [0:26:54]: It's not actual, like, one to one relationship.
Dave [0:26:57]: But I kinda feel like that is...
Dave [0:26:59]: That's what the differentiator is going to be, and I asked you this question earlier, but people are like, I wanna do influencer marketing.
Dave [0:27:04]: Where do I find influencers and I'm like, the number one way you find it, you have to know your customer and you have to know your audience and so you should know which people your audience follows on Tiktok, Which podcast podcasts they listen to, which Youtube channels they subscribe to?
Dave [0:27:17]: What are they reading?
Dave [0:27:18]: What are they interested in and if you you're not gonna be able to outsource that.
Dave [0:27:21]: I'm sorry.
Dave [0:27:21]: Like, if you don't figure on the pulse of what's interesting to your audience.
Dave [0:27:24]: There's not gonna be, like, no magic database.
Dave [0:27:26]: It's like, go reach out to these three people.
Dave [0:27:28]: I did an interview with this guy, Chris, who runs social media at click up, they're a billion dollar Saas company.
Dave [0:27:34]: And he said, his trick is he goes to Instagram and he finds Instagram creators that I've had one or two viral videos, but don't have a ton of followers.
Dave [0:27:43]: Mh.
Dave [0:27:44]: So they have the chops to, like, clearly on the out them on Instagram shows that video, that video popped off that video had a million views, but this person may only have Yeah.
Dave [0:27:53]: Twelve thousand followers, but they could be hired to make social media content for them, and that's a different way that's a better way to prove out that that model.
Ishveen [0:28:01]: Well I also think it's interesting because, I mean, today, even we use, like, claw to be like, right?
Ishveen [0:28:05]: What's a trending, you can get the whole thing off.
Ishveen [0:28:08]: To go back to your salesforce example, I would say, like, the miss here is, like, that company ideally should come to you and say, here is my goal.
Ishveen [0:28:16]: I want to show that we are on ground at Salesforce or is it Sales?
Ishveen [0:28:22]: Here's my goal.
Ishveen [0:28:23]: How do you help me hit it?
Ishveen [0:28:24]: And you would come up with, like, maybe two or three concepts.
Ishveen [0:28:28]: So this is the best way that our brands are working right now whether you say, here's my goal.
Ishveen [0:28:32]: Influencer her create a athlete agency whoever or opens sponsorship.
Ishveen [0:28:36]: Give me two or three concepts to say yes to.
Ishveen [0:28:39]: A is more interesting for you, b, anyone that knows you is like, oh, That's really on brand for Dave, whereas I was like, the other way, someone like, oh he's been paid to do that.
Ishveen [0:28:49]: And that's where that whole, like, pain comes in because it just doesn't feel on brand for anyone.
Ishveen [0:28:54]: And the third thing is, again, going back to Value because we talk about this a lot.
Ishveen [0:28:58]: We have seen you go to an athlete or an influencer, and you're like, here's the campaign.
Ishveen [0:29:02]: Same brand, if one is pre, and they don't love it, the price could be up to double.
Ishveen [0:29:08]: And I'm sure you've had that.
Ishveen [0:29:10]: If they were like, you just do whatever you want, go interview some cool people, create some great content, and we're paying for your ticket in your hotel.
Ishveen [0:29:16]: You'd be like this as a cool brief.
Ishveen [0:29:18]: I'm in.
Ishveen [0:29:18]: Here's my prize.
Ishveen [0:29:20]: If they're like, here's full post, you have to do it.
Ishveen [0:29:22]: You have to do it on this day that time, you're, like, yeah, this feels like work.
Dave [0:29:27]: Yeah.
Dave [0:29:27]: And you have to do it...
Dave [0:29:28]: It's usually, like, and you have to do it while wearing an Adobe hat and use the hashtag.
Dave [0:29:31]: Adobe partners.
Dave [0:29:33]: It's like, okay.
Dave [0:29:33]: Well, Like...
Dave [0:29:34]: Because then you run the...
Dave [0:29:35]: Am I willing to do that, everything's got a price, you know, that...
Dave [0:29:39]: I just think the opportunity is for most people listen.
Dave [0:29:41]: I think the opportunity is...
Dave [0:29:42]: It goes back to social media, which I think is the biggest most important trend you could be focusing on beyond Ai.
Dave [0:29:48]: If you're a B2B brand, which is, like, content, social.
Dave [0:29:51]: It's the only way you have this amazing ability to reach your customers directly through social media.
Dave [0:29:57]: And it's not social media, you know, ten years ago.
Dave [0:30:00]: Was like, oh, my, you know, my cousin is in social media intern and she runs social for us It's like, Social media now is the way people get information and it is the way people buy even in B2B.
Dave [0:30:10]: And so I'm gonna use influencers to help spread our message, but the gap of of doing some kind of shitty thing with an influencer it's just like, okay Cool.
Dave [0:30:20]: Got a little bit more reach on our social content because we had famous people post our stuff.
Dave [0:30:24]: First, like, when you see a influencer, do a brand deal that, like, really is authentic or funny or interesting.
Dave [0:30:31]: It's like, that's a ten x opportunity.
Dave [0:30:34]: And so I'd be, like, what what's the opportunity for me in my niche, whether I'm in, you know, Fintech, legal tech, Saas, manufacturing.
Dave [0:30:42]: Like, all the people that listen to this podcast?
Dave [0:30:43]: How can we find a couple people in those.
Dave [0:30:46]: Yeah.
Dave [0:30:46]: That would make sense to team up within those spaces and and instead of doing a one off post, treat it like a longer campaign?
Ishveen [0:30:53]: I also, on the back of that thing, what happens is there's a perception when you're saying that, I think there'll be people that I am going give it.
Ishveen [0:30:59]: Supplements is obvious or fashion is obvious or electronics is obvious.
Ishveen [0:31:03]: But as I kinda mentioned before, athletes and creators and influences, they're like mini businesses.
Ishveen [0:31:09]: Right?
Ishveen [0:31:09]: And they do have, like, legal issues.
Ishveen [0:31:12]: They're at risk of being sued or they have health issues, or they have kids and they have families.
Ishveen [0:31:15]: So it's almost like, we have this amazing social listings so also so we can like to look into, like, has anyone talked about being sued.
Ishveen [0:31:23]: Right?
Ishveen [0:31:24]: And so, like, you can already, like, find people who are, because so again, back to your point.
Ishveen [0:31:29]: It's either the audiences of fit, or they are a fit through some story.
Ishveen [0:31:33]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:31:34]: And it could be as simple as, they went to the same school as your CEO.
Ishveen [0:31:38]: And it's like, you know, they come in and they interviewed the CEO and they're, like, former alumni, and that be...
Ishveen [0:31:43]: If that's what you wanna promote.
Ishveen [0:31:44]: Right?
Ishveen [0:31:45]: Like, the CEO
Dave Gerhardt [0:31:46]: or Yeah.
Dave [0:31:46]: That's a good angle.
Dave [0:31:47]: I, like, that's an easy low bear.
Dave [0:31:48]: Like, you can find what are these different little patterns we can find to match up who might make a good fit here?
Ishveen [0:31:53]: I think you're just trying to make your company feel, like, have a personality whatever that is.
Ishveen [0:31:58]: And, like, influencers created athletes, it's basically, you know, if you pick shack, you know that you're going for something larger than life.
Ishveen [0:32:05]: If you pick I was gonna do, like, tiger woods, but then I was like right?
Ishveen [0:32:09]: Let's stay away from.
Ishveen [0:32:09]: But, you know, like, there's basically, like...
Dave [0:32:11]: If you pick Tiger woods, you're associating yourself with an addiction to sleeping medication and pain pills.
Dave [0:32:16]: How's?
Ishveen [0:32:17]: Exactly.
Ishveen [0:32:17]: Exactly.
Ishveen [0:32:18]: I remember, like, there was twenty twelve Olympics why when Ryan locked he, I don't need from remember him the Olympics swim.
Ishveen [0:32:23]: He like, made up a story that he he was in a heist at, like, the petrol station Had turned out.
Ishveen [0:32:28]: He just been on the night out.
Ishveen [0:32:29]: She was dropped by all his sponsors, but, like, a couple of people picked him up because they wanted, like,
Dave [0:32:34]: They could lean into that.
Ishveen [0:32:35]: Yeah Sure.
Ishveen [0:32:35]: Exactly.
Ishveen [0:32:35]: So it's, like, basically, let's bring your brand to life with with someone.
Ishveen [0:32:39]: That's one image.
Ishveen [0:32:40]: Two is let's have someone create some really interesting content for you.
Ishveen [0:32:44]: That's two.
Ishveen [0:32:45]: Three is, let's tap into people because they've got the audience that you need.
Ishveen [0:32:49]: Like, there are, like, literally, today there are influencers for every single legal tips and this tips and day trading.
Ishveen [0:32:56]: Actually actually interestingly, we were trying to work with someone for day trading, and they wanted to lean into the influencer for day trading, but those influencers were saying, well, we can't take payment for this because we're the experts on this.
Ishveen [0:33:07]: This is our day job.
Ishveen [0:33:08]: So it would be so ina to promote someone.
Ishveen [0:33:11]: So again, that perception that, like, they'll just take money for anything isn't is not true.
Ishveen [0:33:15]: So thought that was quite interesting, but, yeah, I think there's loads of different reasons, but you need to be clear and definitely don't come and say, I wanna get it all because that's when it fails.
Dave [0:33:24]: Final thoughts.
Dave [0:33:24]: Anything I should have asked you or or miss or anything you wanna you wanna say before we hang up today.
Ishveen [0:33:30]: Worst let me ask you you do hear more about B2b influencer marketing, but why do you from your amazing experience with B2b marketers Like, why do you feel like it's not as big as it could be.
Dave [0:33:42]: I think a couple things.
Dave [0:33:43]: One of them is probably just the we don't like to do things that are not directly instantly measurable and so it's harder to be like, okay, If Bi is a popular influencer in this space, Well, I'm gonna have her post this link to our landing page because we're gonna need to track how many sessions and conversions that we got directly from that.
Dave [0:34:07]: It's a little bit harder to, like, you almost have to let go of, like, it's not response marketing.
Dave [0:34:13]: It's much more brand marketing, which is gonna take time and you have to have a clearer opinion and strategy.
Dave [0:34:18]: And so I think oftentimes it's because we wanna apply, like, the demand gen lens to it, and we wanna hire this person to be an influencer to create content because we need seven more sales meetings this month.
Dave [0:34:31]: And that's why.
Dave [0:34:32]: I think it's a lot around, like, what's the right content?
Dave [0:34:35]: What's the right offer?
Dave [0:34:36]: Who's the right person?
Dave [0:34:37]: It's much easier to justify spending twenty five grand on adwords because at least, I can show the CFO or my boss or whoever, even if the ads in convert, I can show traffic, I can show why it didn't convert a...
Dave [0:34:50]: There's a little bit more of a black box and almost like zero click marketing strategy with doing an influencer deal.
Dave [0:34:57]: And then it's also this weird thing because if you want the influencer stuff to work, you have to forget all that stuff.
Dave [0:35:03]: And so it's like it's not gonna work if you do that.
Dave [0:35:05]: And so this it's a little bit...
Dave [0:35:07]: I think the people that do it well have really strong conviction and are willing to be creative and are willing to, like, test into something and and really try it versus, like, I think oftentimes we wanna both.
Dave [0:35:18]: We wanna, like, not spend the big budget, but we wanna make sure it's perfectly track.
Dave [0:35:22]: Does does that make sense?
Dave [0:35:23]: You know I'm trying to get it?
Ishveen [0:35:24]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:35:24]: It's same.
Ishveen [0:35:25]: I think on that note.
Ishveen [0:35:27]: Be ready for your test to be a small test that produces small results and small wins and scale up, but know that, like, exactly that.
Ishveen [0:35:36]: Like, it's not gonna hit the same as a conference because I mean, this depends.
Dave [0:35:41]: Well, even a conference, a conference is a good example of conference is almost like influencer marketing in some way And I think a lot of times it's like, the right people are at the conference.
Dave [0:35:49]: But if you go to the conference and your booth sucks, and you don't have an interesting offer, like, you're gonna be like, well, comfort you we deal with it.
Dave [0:35:56]: People are like, well, nobody's scanned our badges at our booth and it's like, is that a me prop is that a us problem or you problem Like, do you need to be more interesting.
Dave [0:36:03]: And I think that's the one percent or that's the ninety nine percent is, like, what's the offer?
Dave [0:36:09]: How do we have the booth that everyone's gonna go to?
Ishveen [0:36:12]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:36:12]: Thanks thing.
Dave [0:36:13]: I also think you could be too small.
Dave [0:36:14]: I think you could do a bunch of small tests where, like, I'm biased to, like, I'd rather find someone we really like have a really good idea or something that we feel strong about come up with a really creative campaign and go and do it and take a bigger swing, then I think sometimes if it's too small, then you're like, I'll, we didn't really notice anything, and then you have no conviction to, like, spend more and go bigger.
Dave [0:36:36]: I know that's much risk year, but that's how kinda I'm much more impulsive.
Dave [0:36:42]: I'd rather I'd rather go all in and do something big and, like, deal with the repercussions of that not working out then, like, I think sometimes in marketing, you can do too many things too small when you should just really do one or two bigger things and, like, make a big bet and make it.
Dave [0:36:57]: You also then are forced to make something work first.
Dave [0:37:00]: We did this tiny thing, and it didn't work, like...
Dave [0:37:02]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:37:02]: That's me one.
Ishveen [0:37:03]: Yeah.
Ishveen [0:37:03]: I think we also kind of slightly touched on it, but, like, the fact that Reddit linkedin, all of these are really important.
Ishveen [0:37:10]: And also today when you think about, like, Ai search engine, optimization, it's not what it used to be with Google.
Ishveen [0:37:18]: And so I think there's element of influencer, Again, it's creating content that then signals.
Ishveen [0:37:24]: People are talking about you, and they do scrape social a lot.
Ishveen [0:37:28]: We have just started a reddit commenting strategy to improve our like, search adults through Ai.
Ishveen [0:37:35]: So I think, again, you're...
Ishveen [0:37:37]: Anyway having to think about all these other things, why not take someone who's next, but to help you out.
Dave [0:37:43]: Yeah.
Dave [0:37:43]: I love it.
Dave [0:37:43]: Okay.
Dave [0:37:44]: And Jolly, Thank you for coming on the pod.
Dave [0:37:46]: We'll link to you on Linkedin.
Dave [0:37:47]: I'm sure you'll get a bunch of connections and questions about this.
Dave [0:37:49]: Goal in doing this episode was to give people.
Dave [0:37:52]: An overview, I want get people to start thinking about life beyond Google, and Meta.
Dave [0:37:58]: And there are other ways to spend your money.
Dave [0:38:01]: And I do think that in marketing if you wanna reach more people, You do have to spend It's like, I used to always take pride.
Dave [0:38:07]: We don't spend any money.
Dave [0:38:08]: We're scrappy and it's like, well, eventually, you come up in the...
Dave [0:38:10]: You start to play a bigger game and you do need to spend money to make money, and I love this idea of influencers in B2B, especially with the trend of sports, and it's interesting to hear how you don't see it adjusted support.
Dave [0:38:20]: You see every industry now has these influencers And I think it's a really interesting interesting time.
Dave [0:38:26]: So thanks for coming on the pod.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:32]: Hey.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:32]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:34]: If you like this episode.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:35]: Do you know what?
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:36]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because hi, I don't really care about that.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:40]: I have something better for you.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:41]: So we've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review, go check it out right now on our website, exitfive.com.
Dave Gerhardt [0:38:53]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in Bb marketing, and there's no better place to do that than with us set Exit Five.
Dave Gerhardt [0:39:00]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community, people are in their posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers, building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are, so you can have a peer group, or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest.
Dave Gerhardt [0:39:21]: It's a hundred percent free to join for seven days so you can go and check it out risk free.
Dave Gerhardt [0:39:26]: And then there's a small annual fee to pay if you wanna become a member for the year.
Dave Gerhardt [0:39:30]: Go check it out, learn more exitfive.com, and I will see you over there in the community.