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USDN Podcast is a cinematic indie comics interview series hosted by the USDN_Chairman and the Council of Nerds spotlighting the creators, storytellers, and worldbuilders shaping the future of independent comics.
Each episode dives beyond headlines into the real journeys behind the books from Kickstarter launches and creative struggles to the philosophies driving today’s indie storytelling movement.
This isn’t about rumors or recycled news.
It’s about the people creating the worlds.
Through in-depth conversations, creator spotlights, and crowdfunding discussions, USDN explores:
• The rise of indie comics
• The business of crowdfunding
• The art of worldbuilding
• The realities of independent storytelling
USDN is where indie comics come to life for the fans, by the creators, and powered by the community.
You are listening to the USDN on the
DFPN.
Thanks for watching!
What is up everybody and welcome to the
United States Department of Nerds where we
are for the people, by the people,
and of the people.
Heroes used to save the world.
Now,
they're just trying to save the
neighborhood.
Tonight on the USDM podcast,
we enter the world of GWP,
guys with powers.
And yes,
they sound just like an old school WWE
tag team.
But they are a gritty indie superhero
universe built from the ground up by the
team at Thunder Zone Comets.
I had that wrong earlier.
Joining us are writer Ray McKay and Dan
San.
Not a fan.
Nailed it.
And they are the crew behind one of
Kickstarter's newest indie superhero
projects blending street-level states,
larger-than-life powers,
and old-school comic energy into something
that feels raw, ambitious,
and unapologetically indie.
We'll be talking about building a new
superhero universe in today's comic
landscape,
balancing classic comic inspiration with
modern storytelling, Kickstarter culture,
indie comics, world building,
and what it really takes to create a
superhero book outside of the mainstream
machine.
This isn't corporate superheroes.
This is Indie Comets with power.
Ladies and gentlemen,
the Council of Nerds is now in session.
Dan, Ray, welcome to the Council, friends.
Much appreciated.
Thanks for having us.
great to be back thanks for having us
dude absolutely glad i could fill this
spot tonight and um have a show so
with that i'm going to start with you
dan since this is your first time visiting
us here at the council give everybody a
little bit of background on who you are
and kind of what got you into comics
all right well yeah i'm pretty much a
lifelong comic book fan
Uh, I'm not sure like, uh,
what year it was.
I think I got in on the twenty
cent comic.
So I missed out on the fifteen cent
comic.
I started at the twenty cent,
went to twenty five, thirty five.
We all know what it's up to today.
But, uh, I had, uh,
I guess was given comics by my parents
because it was before I had any of
my own money.
And, uh, filed the big two.
Got into the indie comics early on after
years of the big two.
And then through that,
saw that it was possible to do your
own comics and started about twenty years
ago with Argo Comics, A-R-G-O Comics,
which I published Argo Five as a main
title of mine, and Sorority of Power.
After about publishing a hundred books,
I had a number of friends who were
publishing as well,
and I thought they wanted me to publish
their books.
I didn't
want to just put that all in the
same universe as Argo Comics.
So I started ThunderZone Comics,
which is kind of like the early Image
Comics,
where you have a number of studios,
they all have their own superheroes,
but they're all on the same earth.
So it's kind of a shared comics universe,
the ThunderZone Comics imprint.
We have creators from Singapore and Puerto
Rico and Ireland.
We have an Austrian comic coming pretty
soon.
So it's pretty much giving some exposure
to these worldwide properties that just
aren't really known in the States.
And in doing that,
You know,
I have my hands full with the Argo
Comics line, Thunder Zone Comics as well.
And I'm fortunate enough to collaborate
with a number of artists and some writers,
such as Ray right here,
who took over scripting duties for GWP,
Guys With Powers.
Apparently he is also a super writer.
That's Brian.
He's too kind to me.
He's too kind to me.
I said this the very first time you
were on the podcast,
that you will be something special someday
in the comic book world.
And you are making me out not to
be a liar.
So I appreciate that.
Well,
I do my best and I really can't
thank you enough for saying that.
So I'm just really grateful to be here
and to be given the opportunities to work
on scripting projects like GWP with Dan.
i know it'll sound corny to say but
i just had such a blast doing gwp
it was so much fun to work on
and i feel bad i'm really sorry dan
i know i was texting you like three
times a day for a couple weeks straight
being like okay so what about this detail
for what about this what about that just
i got so into it it was so
fun now it's that attention to detail
that's needed for you know someone who's
invested in a project which is uh great
to see rather than uh
you know,
someone who's a bit more detached from it.
Yeah, well, we get to do comics.
Of course we're going to do it a
hundred percent.
It's comics.
Like, come on.
It's so fun.
Ray,
before we get too carried away with that,
remind the council who Ray McKay is.
right uh hi everyone i'm ray mckay i'm
a comics writer graduated college student
now i guess um and i've written comics
for uh big bang comics uh antarctic press
uh argo comics thunder zone um grok comics
and many other publishers uh but above all
else i'm just a huge fan of both
comics and movies i love
getting to go on shows like this because
it gives me a chance to talk about
my love of comics love it man so
how did dance how did you find ray
and kind of how how did this relationship
come to be i think the uh probably
the facebook comics community is a uh big
like uh
meeting place for a lot of comic creators.
You know,
you're just posting on different comic
pages.
I, in the Argo Comics YouTube channel,
each month,
pretty much more so than promoting my own
stuff, which I should be doing,
I'm showing what I'm buying.
And a bunch of it is Ray's work,
because I'll buy Big Bang
comics, G-Man comics,
a number of indie comics.
I don't even cover the big two,
being that I feel there's enough exposure
there.
You know,
they have marketing and everything.
People know those books are out there.
I feel, you know,
let's shed some light on some of these
indie books that people may not know.
I'm still, you know, stuck on physicals.
So it's only the physical books
I have so many digital comics and they
literally just go into a folder on my
hard drive and I'll wait for the physical
one to come to my house.
That way I can read it the old
school way.
I can't agree more.
Like if I have to work on something
and I need to read like the previous
ten issues, I'll read the digital version.
But I like having a physical one.
Like for me,
it's I want to sit there and I
want to read the comic.
I don't want to be on my computer.
I just want to enjoy reading it,
you know?
You wrote a fantastic Alpha Red script,
by the way, right?
Oh.
Again, they're really too kind.
James rewrites so much of what I do,
or puts his own spin on it.
It's funny,
what I do with James Nguyen of Alpha
Red Comics is almost the opposite of what
me and Dan did for GWP,
where I just sort of do the script
Marvel-style and give James some ideas for
what the dialogue would be,
and then he sort of puts it together
himself because...
Alpha Red is his character.
It's so close to his heart.
He knows how that character talks and acts
better than I do.
And he sort of makes that magic happen.
I'm just happy to get the ball rolling.
No, that's incredible, dude.
And I told you from the get go
that you were going places and you're
absolutely a hundred percent going places.
I'm glad you took my advice and started
doing the Facebook thing,
started doing the Instagram thing.
so that for me you know seeing you
succeed like this is is really awesome and
shout out to dan for giving you another
opportunity to let your your talent show
through but let's talk about what brings
us here tonight and that is gwp so
what is gwp guys with powers and i
will let y'all decide amongst yourselves
who wants to go first yeah ray can
go ahead
Oh, gosh.
I was just about to say, Dan,
it's your book.
Do you want to give it a shot?
But I can go for it.
Just correct me wherever I get this wrong.
So GWP is a three-issue miniseries that's
going to be coming from the Argo Comics
Thunder Zone.
And GWP stands for Guys with Powers
because...
This series isn't about a superhero team.
It's about a group of people with powers
that are brought together by a guy who
was a part of a superhero team at
one point, Cosmos.
He was on a team.
They're gone.
And he's not going to repeat the mistakes
of the past.
But he still needs to take down Elijah
Smoke,
who's a ruthless crime lord that's
threatening to take over Bed-Stuy,
Brooklyn, as well as all of New York.
So...
Without the ability to put together a
team,
Cosmos has to assemble a ragtag group of
heroes to basically take back their city
from this crime lord before it's too late.
Dan, how do you do?
Sorry?
I said, Dan, how did he do?
Oh, yeah, no, that was dead on.
Yeah, I mean, again,
I've done Argo V for...
over fifteen years.
I have issue forty-eight I'm lettering.
That is a more standard superhero book,
but as time goes on, I have to,
you know, give things a different flavor.
I have Sorority of Power,
which is a sorority of super heroines.
I have a book, Big House Blues,
where the superheroes are corrections
officers in a supervillain prison.
And this was just an opportunity to get
a bit more urban in the fact that
I spent the majority of my life in
New York.
This team is based out of Bed-Stuy,
which is an area in Brooklyn known to
be a kind of a rough area.
Um, so, you know,
I'll have like firsthand account to give
that proper flavor to that.
And, you know, we've, we've worked with,
uh, Ron Charles Williams, the artist who,
uh,
drew this mini series and he was really
in tune with that as well.
So really captured that flavor.
and Ray gave it the proper spin so
as not to just be like an X-Men
book or a Justice League book.
Those books are out there.
There's a lot of fans that already like
that.
Why go to the indie if you're just
going to give them your take on that?
We've got to give them something
different, and in doing so,
that's where we took...
I'm always in favor of giving people
something that you're not going to see in
the mainstream comics.
That's a good segue to this question.
Where do you guys get the creative
inspiration and ideas to write new
stories, characters, and universes?
I am going to pass the baton off
to Dan on this one because...
Like I am really proud of all the
stuff I got to bring to GWP,
but it was your idea and your story.
And like the art was completely finished
before I even started on it.
So this one's really,
I'm really curious actually to find this
one out or to learn more.
Well,
the answer to that question is to look
outside of the regular influences of just
the,
movies and comics and I mean,
movies and comics have kind of covered
everything.
But I like to go more towards life
and the fact that let's say for that
book where I had corrections officers as
superheroes,
I had prior years in law enforcement.
I talked a lot with the corrections
officers and kind of did research
Right there and then.
So seeing that wasn't done in a comic,
that's where I come up with something like
that.
Again, Sorority of Power, way back,
I had a girlfriend who was in a
sorority at some point.
you know,
prior to me going out with her.
But I said, you know,
there really hasn't been a sorority of
superheroes where I have, like,
three of them are pledges,
three of them are sisters.
The pledges have to go through a year
of pledging to have adventures and kind
of...
gain membership into this,
kind of like a training academy for future
superheroines.
And GWP again was just my time in
New York.
I was actually in Long Island,
but Brooklyn and Queens was just a
cross-island parkway drive away from where
I was.
And I kind of soaked that in and
said to myself,
I'm not really sure
I think Milestone Comics kind of like
delved into that a little bit.
We all have our own personal experiences.
So I kind of, you know,
gave it my own twist and my own
flavor from my own experiences.
So again, answering that question,
I try to take it from life.
No, I like that a lot.
Yeah.
The fact that you're from Long Island
makes it even better.
And that's a half a day commute across
those bridges.
Yeah,
I was actually working in Long Island,
so I was okay.
But when you go down the Cross Island,
well,
Southern State Parkway to the Cross
Island.
Yeah.
To the Bell Parkway, actually.
And I had a friend who was near
Kings Plaza in Brooklyn.
So I kind of would go over there.
hanging out with him.
He's a comic artist himself.
And we would, you know,
I get more and more exposed to the
Brooklyn mentality and lifestyle,
hanging out with him.
And, you know,
he actually did some work in Argo Comics.
So he went to a school of visual
arts.
And in that respect,
again he was a brooklynite he grew up
in brooklyn so being good friends with him
for years and years you kind of like
and going out to brooklyn you kind of
like soak up what that's all about and
uh put it onto the page yeah it's
a i highly recommend anybody
go there at least once because it's it's
a fun trip i i've been there i
granted i stayed on the new jersey side
and took the the water taxi across it's
a little cheaper to stay in jersey and
um loved it like it was so fun
we went at christmas time did the
christmas tree thing and went up went
everywhere we could using the um the bus
so okay it's on my list to visit
It's top of my list.
Highly recommend.
It's in so many of my favorite movies.
My dad was in New York ages ago,
and he sent me a photo from a
specific subway stop that's in The
Warriors, and I just loved it.
I'm going to have to do it.
If they had The Warriors walking tour in
New York, I would go to it.
It would be amazing.
Dude, to be fair, they probably do.
They have every other one.
I'll just love that movie.
Sorry.
Complete tangent.
No, you're good.
You are good, man.
Cause I love New York.
It is such a, like,
I wouldn't want to live there,
but a good week there,
get it out of your system for a
while and call it good.
Yeah.
That's what he said.
It was a good place to visit,
but not living there.
I did three years working at a corporate
fitness center and a Rockefeller center
and
Yeah, that's a good stop right there.
On any tour to New York,
go to the Rockefeller Center.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, growing up,
I would go to Radio City Music Hall,
Christmas shows, parents and everything.
But, yeah, working in Manhattan, again,
gave me some experience in that.
Yeah.
It's, yeah, it's a different mentality.
Like Long Island, people say, oh, yeah,
I'm here in Florida now.
You're from New York.
They're picturing skyscrapers and
everything.
Long Island wasn't that different than the
area of Florida here.
But, you know, again,
I did live in that world for a
bit.
So it gives you experience to bring that
to the comics.
So let's jump in and talk a little
bit about the Kickstarter.
Do you have a release date yet for
the Kickstarter or is that still something
you're working on?
Yeah,
that is something we're just finalizing.
Trying to get people to click on that
notify me, get the follower number up.
Supposedly you should have a hundred
people following.
So anyone who's watching right now,
please go over to the Kickstarter page.
Down in the description.
Yeah, the link's over there.
You can always just search GWP on
Kickstarter and
going to be pretty much your only top
thing that you're going to get when you
search that.
But yeah,
if we can get those following numbers up
and just, I mean, the book is complete.
So I always,
I don't launch anything till the book's
complete.
Because I know the original purpose was
Kickstarter,
get the money to pay the artist to
do the work.
I invested in that myself.
I believe in the project.
I invested my money in that because I'm
not going to ask other people to invest
if I don't believe in it myself.
That's kind of like one of the golden
rules right there, though,
is have the book done, ready to go.
That way you're paying for the printing
and maybe a little bit of profit on
the back side.
If it comes to that,
then now we have...
the printing covered a little bit for
issue two and creative keeping all these
artists, uh, paid, uh,
there's more money coming in to have, uh,
pay artists to create more books.
That's that's the goal right there.
Always.
So why do you think Kickstarter has become
so important to Indie Comets?
And that's where both of y'all, you can...
Ray, you can go first.
I mean, again,
I feel like I should defer to Dan's
superior wisdom because he's run more
Kickstarters than I have.
Like, I've participated in a lot,
but I haven't run them.
But, I mean,
I think the thing that makes
Kickstarter...
really great is it opens up the ability
for anyone to sort of fund a comic
or find an audience for that comic.
And obviously you still have to do the
legwork.
You have to post about it.
You have to,
you can't just launch a Kickstarter or an
Indiegogo or whatever you want and then
expect
people to just sort of buy your comic.
This isn't Field of Dreams.
If you build it, they will not come.
You have to build it and then advertise
it.
Advertise it.
But I think it's great because it allows
so many people to sort of like do
the thing that they love and it allows...
lots of fans to get their hands on
comics that sort of are out of the
mainstream.
Like GWP,
unfortunately probably isn't coming to a
comic shop near you anytime soon,
but so are so many,
but neither are so many of the books
that are sort of on Kickstarter.
And like some, like my,
I'm from Vancouver, big city.
We have one comic shop.
Like unfortunately comic shops aren't as
prevalent as they used to be.
So yeah,
Which is odd that you said that because
I know a pin within driving distance of
me.
But then you hear of big cities like
Vancouver and there's like one.
Yeah.
And I know, Dan,
I think there might be two in the
area you live in.
Yeah,
one in Fort Walton and one in Gulf
Breeze, I guess.
Yeah.
Well,
we've got more out like in the Richmond
area,
but there's only one like actually in
Vancouver.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Are you scripting to other issues of the
miniseries, Ray?
Yes.
I mean,
I always want to be like going back
and tweaking little things because I'm a
perfectionist or I have OCD.
It's probably a combination of those two.
But yes,
I did do the script for all three
issues and Dan's going through and sort of
polishing them up and correcting me where
I've screwed stuff up.
So yeah.
Dan,
what are your thoughts on Kickstarter?
Yeah, well,
Kickstarter is a great place for not
having to be in the comic store,
as Ray said.
And for people who are globally, again,
that's another thing that's, I guess,
part of my brand.
Because now...
wherever anyone is,
they're able to back this Kickstarter and
get it shipped to them.
Uh, that availability, uh, I mean,
look there,
the comic shops had a hard enough time
with the big two trying to figure out
what to order from them.
Um,
there were days where there were a lot
of comic shops that could try out a
lot of stuff.
I, I,
got into Love and Rockets and Ninja High
School and Gold Digger,
all the image books when they first came
out,
all these books they were able to take
a gamble on.
Times are a bit tougher now,
and they're ordering a bit more
conservatively.
Mm-hmm.
There are some outlets,
which I'm exploring right now,
that will offer these books to the comic
shops.
But in that, it's a tough sell because,
again, they're even trying to figure out,
like, you know,
should we order issues of the new X
Factor reboot or whatever's coming out?
from a big, you know,
from the big two.
They can barely, you know,
they're not returnable.
Back in the day when they were returnable
and they can rip off the cover,
the comic shops were ordering a bit more
freely.
Now, it's a bit tougher.
But we'll, you know,
in talks with Philbo Distribution,
get these books.
A good one.
at least offered to the comic stores.
And yeah,
hopefully we see some expansion with that.
So I know this doesn't affect y'all per
se,
but how did the news of Kickstarter
killing a lot of the not safe for
work stuff with Stripe going, hey,
we're striking these out because they
contain not safe for work material?
was what was y'all's initial impressions
of that didn't they rescind that already
stripe is still pushing that i thought
they pulled it back so they did to
some degree but i think it still calls
in a lot of issues for a lot
of people putting books out oh geez but
yeah yeah in actuality i had just
It's not a, it is,
I would say a, uh, not a NS,
uh, FW.
It was,
I have kind of like a SS FW,
like a somewhat safe for work book coming
out.
Clickbait.
Actually the three we have in a pre-launch
right now, GWP, Clickbait and Earthful.
So if you search those three,
Or actually,
if you search one of them and then
you get to my profile,
you'll see all three of those are in
pre-launch right now.
GWP will be the first.
But clickbait,
I didn't just do it for the sake
of having cheesecake and stuff like that.
And actually,
the sexiness is part of the story.
And it actually makes sense.
She's in the Thunder Zone universe.
so uh you know but just as they
announce this i have to just see which
of the images uh again there's no x
so it really isn't a uh a problem
with that but i just have to see
which of the images under the new uh
guidelines might uh seem more risque or
not for uh yeah right um because
I mean, Sorority of Power, that wasn't,
it was cheesecake to some degree, but,
you know, kind of standard,
more in line what you might see in
a standard comic.
But this, I just went a little further.
Again,
in exploring something that perhaps wasn't
in the big two.
And we'll see.
We'll see what happens with that.
People can click notifying all three of
those and they'll see those stories
unfold.
No,
it's going to be an interesting few weeks.
I know there's other companies out there
rushing to try to create something new for
the not safe for work crowd and more
power to them.
And hopefully Kickstarter figures this out
soon, but we will see how that goes.
So what has been the biggest challenge you
think of running a campaign?
I'll let Dan go.
I know your answer, Ray.
Oh, no.
The answer is just getting people to see
that you have that campaign going because
there's just a lot of campaigns.
Social media, from what I hear,
is not great on the algorithms for
anything that has a link in it.
So it gets tough just to spread the
word.
And now at least Kickstarter has those
late pledges so that those people who come
to you right after the campaign is done
and say to you, oh,
you had a campaign?
It's like, yeah,
I've been posting every day for the past
month over that with this,
like even now with the prelaunch.
You're posting, you're posting,
you're posting.
The algorithm isn't really letting it get
seen enough.
So just the visibility and getting the
word out,
that's why we appreciate being on a show
like this to, you know,
perhaps expose the book to some people who
aren't necessarily in my social media
feeds.
Yeah, no,
I'm very much a cradle to grave podcast.
I...
I get you on the podcast.
I get you clips for it to help
you push your books.
I share everything that I possibly can
when it comes across the feed.
And Ray can attest for this.
And I try to support it start to
finish as much as I can.
And same.
I'm scratching your back and y'all are
scratching mine at the same time.
So it works out for all the parties
involved.
So that's, you know, part of this is
building that community up.
But definitely launching a comic
independently today feels very much being
part creator, part entrepreneur.
Do you feel that pressure at all?
Dan, I'll let you have that.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, I mean, a lot of us,
myself included,
love the creative part.
And we're not really like the carnival
barkers.
You know, I mean,
I was in New York,
I did New York Comic Con, you know,
for quite a number of years.
And yeah,
it comes down to sometimes having a little
bit of that to get people to check
out what's at your table.
But yeah, everyone
a lot of creators want to be what
I'll call, not an artist, an artiste.
So they want to like- It's free.
I'm sharing with you my creative
explorations and the money and all that is
beneath me.
And it's just like, well, unfortunately,
if no one buys a book,
if no one hears about the book,
You really can't have to just keep it
going in the sense of art for art's
sake.
You kind of need some support.
Of course,
that's the point of doing this is that
you want people to read it.
No one's looking to make a load of
money.
As Stan Lee famously said,
if you want to make a million dollars
in comics, start out with two million.
So, you know,
I was actually on a message board in
Facebook or a post in this big thread
about whether the artist should promote or
not.
And, you know, most of them was like,
I'm not getting paid to promote.
So that doesn't really fall on to me.
It doesn't benefit me.
And, you know,
my response being that if you want
this writer to perhaps hire you to draw
a second issue,
then it's in your best interest to,
you know, get the word out.
I mean,
it seems like artists don't have a problem
if they do work for the big two,
you know, singing that to the heavens.
I worked for Marvel.
Even for a short time,
they still tell you.
Yeah.
But,
And that's great.
I mean, obviously,
you reached that pinnacle.
And so many of the best creators have
been in the big two.
But that indie needs that a lot more.
And they didn't pay for that comic to
be produced
through shareholders or anything that was
out of pocket, blue collar worker,
perhaps, you know,
working hard for the money and then,
you know, paying you to draw that.
So again, no, no, you don't.
It isn't a requirement, but in the...
I would definitely be looking for a
different artist on issue too.
Essence of, you know, yeah,
getting exposure, which is key right now.
The artist who is...
you know,
at least sharing your post and saying,
look here.
It's not much, right?
To share a post.
That shit is free and it takes no
time at all.
Yeah.
So that just gives you a boost that
they're, they're invested.
They're on your side.
It's not like, well, you know,
I got mine.
Good luck with the book.
You know, it's, but then at that point,
are you obligated to put their name on
the cover?
Yeah, of course.
You have to give credit where credit is
due.
But...
So you would think they would be obligated
to at least share and do those kinds
of things, right?
You would think that it's in their best
interest also to show, look,
I'm a working artist.
You know, people are paying me.
You know,
they're getting that eyes on their work to
be like,
and colorist who I've worked with who all
of a sudden, you know,
indie publishers see, oh, well, you know,
we're publishing at about that level.
So I'm sure the page rates are something
we can cover.
And, you know,
all of a sudden they're getting a lot
of indie work from a lot of indie
companies.
And I've had a few, of course, graduate
marvel in dc um and that's always you
know bittersweet and the fact that uh you
know now they have to do the work
for that and it's great for them but
you know there's always uh just a constant
again through that facebook networking and
everything like that yeah find these new
talents yeah i will say facebook from this
perspective from an indie comic
perspective is
There's some amazing groups out there with
a lot of amazing people who are all
like there for each other.
And it's really cool to be a part
of those groups.
I wish I had more time to spend
in those groups outside of just
advertising myself and what I do and
trying to get guests and that kind of
stuff.
And but it's a it's a whole thing.
And whenever I can participate,
I do participate in those groups.
But it is really hard when you're really
busy all of a sudden and live in
one of the best lives you can with
this kind of stuff.
So let's let's talk about these characters
that you have created.
And so what I want to do here.
I will say the character's name.
I'll let you introduce it, Dan.
And then I want to have Ray tell
us how he kind of helped shape that
character.
Can we do that?
Sure.
All right.
We'll start with Cosmos.
Okay.
So yeah,
Cosmos is pretty much the leader of the
group and he has, uh,
powers to draw Starlight and the fact that
he uses that for super strength,
star bolt blast, and flight.
So he's the most experienced of the group.
And
He did lead a super team before that
is, uh,
now defunct and we get into that
throughout the series.
Uh, what happened there?
But, uh, yeah, he, uh,
he is kind of serious.
because again,
he's seen the tragedy with the last team
and he knows there's stuff to be done
in Bed-Stuy,
but he doesn't want to repeat any of
the mistakes of the past.
Ray, I'll kick it over to you.
Yeah.
Well,
I really tried to build off sort of
what Dan had in the outline and sort
of what we talked about sort of for
GWP and the character of Cosmo and
I think at the core,
he was a guy who was a part
of sort of a traditional superhero team
that's gone now.
Like his superhero team is gone.
They're over, they're done.
He's all that's left,
but the work isn't done.
And he wants to learn from the mistakes
of the destruction of his previous team.
So,
he's trying something different,
more akin to like a strike force than
sort of like a superhero team.
He's not,
they're not going to be like these,
maybe like,
what would be the best way to put
it?
I think Cosmo is really operating out of
an area of,
I don't want to repeat the mistakes of
the past.
I'm not going to get people killed or
Whatever may have happened.
And he's also, again,
we'll get more into it in sort of
the later issues,
but he's being smart this time.
He's being really smart.
He's been studying the criminals that
they're trying to take down in this issue.
He's been studying them for months.
He has a plan.
And there's no just showing up to stop
a bank robbery.
They have a plan.
They're ready for these guys.
They know what they're doing.
It's a precise strike.
There's no messing around with GWP.
When they come for you, you're done.
Strike force.
You were right.
All right,
we'll kick it back up to Dan with
Radioactive Girl.
Okay.
Yeah,
she has the power to shoot like a
radioactive flame and propel herself into
flight with that.
So, again, just to contrast her with,
you know,
let's say a Wonder Woman or something like
that, this is more the flavor of...
people I had seen in Brooklyn.
So her personality is perhaps not exactly
what you're going to see from the standard
female superhero.
But, you know,
she's kind of like the reasonable one of
the group
She's a little more,
whereas a couple of them might be a
little more go, go, go.
And of course, as Ray was just saying,
Cosmos,
he wants to be very strategic and she
helps like pull in the reins occasionally
when some of the others might be a
little more aggressive.
Ray, you can get over to you.
Yeah, jumping off of that,
the one kind of thing I really didn't
want to do is I didn't want to
make the person with flames the hothead.
That's just, it's been done to death.
That's Johnny Storm or any other sort of
like...
fiery hero, it's, oh, they're a hothead.
And I really liked what Dan had in
mind for the character of Radioactive Girl
or Jasmine,
that she's a little more cool and
collected,
and she's got a big heart as well.
She really cares for the team.
And she also has a great deal of
trust in Cosmo and can sort of be
the voice of reason to the actual hotheads
on the team and is willing to play
a bit of a peacemaker.
Because again,
Cosmo is sort of the strategic leader.
He's going to tell you what to do,
but he's not exactly going to,
he might not necessarily like take the
time to sort of talk about your feelings
about the mission.
she'll be able to sort of like help
you actually, sorry,
she's there for her teammates if they're
nervous before the attack or the fight,
or if something goes wrong on a mission,
she's the one that's there while Cosmos is
sort of drawing up the next battle plan.
Or sorry.
Go ahead, Ray.
That's part of the reason why I sort
of had her as like a physics grad
student,
because that takes a great deal of sort
of just
I know a lot of physics students.
Holy cow,
do you have to be smart to do
that?
You also have to have a lot of
patience and just a temperance.
Yeah.
Dan, are you watching Evie?
Am I watching what show?
Evie.
No.
Evie is the one currently on the top
shelf.
Evie is on the top shelf of your
screen?
Yeah, of my bookcase over there.
Oh, that I cannot make out.
Easy.
You're up there.
I see white boxes.
I see some action figures.
Go up to the very top shelf.
They're not what they should be.
I don't have the screen enough to see.
And then there's Toby right there.
Toby's my bum.
You're lucky it's not tomorrow.
Otherwise,
I'd have the Habs game open on another
tab.
No, I seen you looking up.
I was like, oh,
is he watching my cat,
how she jumps up to my top shelf
over there?
I've had to rearrange that whole.
There was stuff sitting on top of that
shelf I've had to since move down to
a different shelf because, yeah,
she took over that spot.
Oh.
When she wants to be left alone,
that's where she goes.
But up next, Dan,
kicking it back to you with Faze.
Okay.
Faze, uh,
He exists in a number of dimensions at
the same time.
So in that respect,
he's able to kind of see the world
in a multitude of different ways,
affect the world in a multitude of
different ways by affecting things in
another dimension
that has a repercussion in this dimension.
So again, it was a little out there,
but I don't want to just, you know,
have another, like, dude who's, let's say,
telekinetic or something.
Yeah, very Dr. Manhattan-esque.
Yeah, I mean, potentially there,
but this has kind of driven him a
little mad.
So he's kind of on the edge there
with that.
So perhaps he doesn't have the capacity to
utilize these powers in the way that Dr.
Manhattan does.
But Cosmos, again,
being that more strategic and kind of like
getting all the puzzle pieces in place
knows what an asset that phase is.
And, you know,
it's almost like a counselor to him to
some degree to get him through whatever
he's getting through and help him be a
valuable member of the team
get done what they need to get done.
Ray over to you.
Um, yeah,
I had a lot of fun writing up
up phase and there's a scene in issue
two that really focuses in on him and
explains how his powers work.
And I cannot wait for us to get
to that.
Uh,
but when we say like stop a good
teaser in there that we're not going to
see for a while.
Thanks Ray.
I mean, it's my job.
I got to make you come back for
issues two and three.
Come on.
I got to make you buy issue one.
I got to make you buy issue two.
I got to make you buy issue three.
I got to make you buy the trade
paperback that's going to have the script
in the back or something.
I don't know.
As long as you come back here and
we get to talk about it again,
I'm all about it.
You got a deal there.
But FaZe,
I had a lot of fun with it.
Just...
And the script for issue two isn't
finalized yet, I don't think.
I had a lot of fun sort of
playing with the idea that like Danny,
or sorry,
Ted or Faze lives in multiple dimensions
at once.
Like that isn't an exaggeration.
And like we,
issue two is gonna talk a little bit
about how when he first got his powers,
he spent years sort of lost in different
times and worlds and how most people think
it drove him crazy.
But now that he can master it,
he can sort of pass through them at
will.
And his mind and body are constantly
shifting between different times and
spaces.
And he can sort of harness the residual
chaos energy from his travels into sort of
kinetic or energy blasts.
And he can be anywhere at any time.
But all of that power,
all that infinite power,
is still guided by a human mind.
And he's not Dr. Manhattan.
Can't really handle it all at the same
time.
He's a Jedi.
Yes.
In a lot of ways.
He's using the force.
In a lot of ways,
it's kind of like that.
Sort of like the force,
the idea of just like the consciousness
being one at the universe.
But also...
if you were on like a hockey team
with a guy who was at one with
the universe and was constantly just sort
of spaced out for hours at a time,
existing in other dimensions,
you'd probably think he'd lost his
freaking mind,
which is a discussion that a radioactive
woman will have with one of the members
of the team, Domenico,
and that will sort of get into why
Cosmos trusts Faze,
even though he might be a little mentally
unbalanced.
That was a really good segue, actually,
because we're going to kick it back up
to Dan for Dominico.
Dominico.
Dominos.
Dominico.
I just have to say first that we
never did really test FaZe's midichlorian
levels,
so I can't really confirm whether or not.
But Dominico...
I have in Argo V a character who
is Maltese, okay,
from the island of Malta.
He's part of Maltese mythology, okay,
and I am half Maltese,
but I am also half Dominican,
so from the Dominican Republic,
and I didn't have a hero
with that background.
So Domenico was born as my other character
in Argo Five is the super strong
bulletproof one.
It just seems, I guess,
from many years in the gym that I
like my teams to have a super strong
bulletproof type guy, Domenico.
filled that role.
But again,
not being like a Superman or something
like that,
I guess more towards the vein of Luke
Cage or something.
Okay.
But you know, with the Latino flair.
So and, again, sometimes, I guess,
none of them are really super hotheads,
but perhaps when you're that strong and
bulletproof,
you kind of charge in thinking that might
be the best game plan.
So, and as Ray said,
we have the radioactive girl not being the
hothead.
So kind of like not just,
like Colossus and all these characters who
I love, Wonder Man,
they're always a little more laid back and
timid and not, you know, punch first.
So maybe we got some role reversal here
where our Flame character is more
pragmatic and we have our super strong
character a little more gung-ho.
Mm-hmm.
He's our barbarian if we're playing D&D.
Yeah.
Go.
Or a paladin.
Or a paladin, yeah.
But, all right,
let's talk about these turbo twins.
We'll round it out.
I'm sorry, Ray,
I didn't give you a chance to speak.
Domenico.
Oh, I mean,
I was just going to say, and like,
I,
I don't want to like talk too much
about like stuff that we might not
necessarily get into for this issue, but.
One of the things that I tried to
sort of build into the background about
Domenico is he's a semi-recent immigrant
to Bed-Stuy, or Bed-Stuy, sorry,
I've never been, I'm bad at that.
And he was very much welcomed by sort
of the neighborhood and the community.
So when the gangsters like Elijah Smoke
start sort of taking it over and pumping
drugs and weapons into it,
He's going to get angry and he's not
going to want to wait around for a
strategic plan to take them out.
He's going to want to go for Elijah
smoke and he's going to want to go
for blood.
He's not going to want to wait around
and strategize.
He's going to want to take them out.
I got it.
Yeah.
All right.
Now we'll kick it back up to Dan
with the Turbo Twins.
Okay.
The Turbo Twins are...
And I'm going over each of their powers
as you're asking me about them because
there's a little problem sometimes in an
indie comic where perhaps the creator
knows the powers and knows the names of
the characters.
So in spitting out the issue,
They forget that the people don't know
that.
And sometimes these things are not relayed
in an issue.
And we even have kind of like a
double preach spread,
which I think you see in the preview
that we gave that we let you know
who these people are.
We let you know what their powers are.
In the case of the Turbo Twins,
they are...
twins that are a special again,
trying to give something that I haven't
seen done,
you could just have two acrobatic twins.
They're young kids.
So I guess I would end up being
kind of like two pucks from Alpha Flight,
undoubtedly Ray's favorite Marvel
characters.
But
I gave them this ability where if they
are within five feet of each other,
you can't defeat them.
So it's almost not like a one punch
man situation where they take you out with
one move.
But you're not going to take them out
if they're five feet from each other.
there's some special magic at work that's
going to allow them to counter whatever is
being thrown at them.
But there is that possibility that they
get separated and that's when they're
vulnerable.
When magic.
Yeah.
And
One detail that everything Dan said about
the twins is brilliant.
And I had never read about a power
like this before.
So it was super fun to sort of
get to play with and just to be
like as a fan myself.
And what I really find interesting about
writing the twins is they're second
generation superheroes and the niece and
nephew of Cosmos.
So that's not only has a great backstory,
like it's generational,
it's a generational thing to be a super.
And whether or not,
and what happened to their parents is
something we'll get into in later issues.
That's a mystery that we're going to
tackle.
And.
Whether or not Cosmos is doing the right
thing by bringing them onto GWP and sort
of trying to turn them into superheroes
like him is something that sort of the
various members of GWP have different
thoughts on.
Not everybody agrees that it's a great
idea,
despite the fact that they're an
invaluable asset.
Mm-hmm.
there's arguments about whether or not
it's a great idea to bring two kids
under the age of ten into a gunfight.
Maybe they're unbeatable when they're
within five feet of each other,
but what's sort of the moral obligation?
It's kind of like the Robin debate,
I suppose.
At what point is Batman just doing child
endangerment?
Yeah, but he adopts them.
You have to have no parents in order
to become a Robin.
They at least have parents,
and they get to hang out with their
cool Uncle Cosmos, all right?
At least they're not hanging out with a
drunk uncle.
I mean, yeah.
Do we really want to go there with
Tim Drake?
Come on.
His mom sold him.
So, I mean,
he didn't have the best parents growing
up.
How about that?
I did want to add for them that
the fighting style is mostly these two
person maneuvers.
So I guess the best analogy I can
make would be like a tag team moves
when, and let's say, you know,
WWE or whatever, and they make the tag,
but the two of them are still in
there.
Yeah.
They do some maneuver and you know,
This is coming from a guy who saw
the Rogue Warriors live back in the day.
Same, same.
Yeah, I mean, big wrestling fan.
So sometimes I have that in mind with
one of these maneuvers that they're going
to create.
That's their offense.
It's like a mostly two-person moves.
Because again,
they are younger and smaller.
teaming up to have these two-person moves
is, I guess,
what needs to be done in much the
same way that the Midnight Rockets
probably had to do it with Andre the
Giant.
So you need a couple of people in
there to effectively take down the bigger
opponents.
So it's going to be a three-part series.
Are we just going to be dealing with
the one villain for the entire miniseries?
Or are we going to get another villain
in there, perhaps?
Well, there's... What's it called?
Well, the villain, again, is a crime boss.
So he has some underlings.
And, you know, we do have...
You know, Jeff, not him.
We do have an organization.
So we got some mid-level guys in there.
And as the series progresses,
Elijah Smoke is the crime boss,
Elijah Smoke.
He's going to make use of sort of
his vast,
almost unlimited resources to try and put
GWP down once and for all.
and what those resources turn out to be
is going to be a very fun surprise.
But not a fun surprise for GWP,
a fun surprise for you, the reader.
I like it.
I like a good surprise in my comic
books, man.
Let's transition.
Dude, I'm sold on the book,
and I'm sure many more people will be.
Make sure if you're watching or listening
later,
there's going to be a link down in
the description to go follow the
prelaunch.
of this page or of this Kickstarter.
So make sure you hit that notify me
link on that Kickstarter and give it a
follow for that way you get notified when
it does launch.
But let's talk a little bit about the
state of indie comics right now.
What is the current state of indie comics
from your perspectives?
And I'll kick it to you first, Dan.
Well,
I think indie comics are alive and well
as we, again,
have crowdfunding has come in to help that
along.
But in Thunder Zone,
I do have books that go directly to
our online store.
If you search Indie Planet Thunder Zone
and Indie with a Y,
even though Indie is usually IE,
Indie Planet
one word, and Thunder Zone,
you'll see we do have books that are
straight to that online store.
Print on demand.
Is that your personal online store,
or is that part of a bigger network?
That is part of a bigger network.
It is our printer.
Kablam!
has an online store, Indie Planet.
Pretty much...
A lot of people have referred me to
their printer.
The printer might have a good price on
however many copies or whatever.
Indie Planet, you order the book,
they print up a copy,
they mail it to you.
So I'm not getting a thousand books in
my garage and running to the post office
every time someone orders a comic.
It's in that online store.
It's completed.
So it's not like, you know,
I used to call them kick-enders.
Like, here's my kick-ender.
The book is out.
Order it.
You're going to get it.
You know, right out the gate.
So I think websites like that,
I've made it possible for the indie comic
to thrive in the fact that now,
I mean, for myself,
I'm a big customer there as well.
A number of the other publishers have
written over there as well.
And I can just gather a certain number
of books in my shopping cart until it's
a good amount to save on postage.
them all mail to me at one time
i'm not going to put the kickstarter books
in the indie planet store it's kind of
uh it kind of makes a kick starter
uh yeah yeah it's like okay i'll just
wait for it to come in the store
um i think it's best and we we
have this volume of books coming out
to the fact that you'll get new releases
in Indie Planet.
You'll get new releases on Kickstarter.
So you'll have, you know,
two places where you're getting a steady
stream of Thunderdome comics.
And I believe that's, you know,
websites like that,
things like that make it great.
If we do get in the catalog,
like I said, with Filbo,
then that's comic stores as well.
So, you know,
indie comics I think is alive and well,
but there's just a lot of indie comics.
So again,
getting the word out becomes more
important than ever.
Ray, I'll kick it over to you.
Thanks.
I mean,
I have to agree with a lot of
what Dan said.
A bit of a unique perspective.
I do a lot of writing for a
big bang comics and big bang was published
like by caliber in the late eighties,
early nineties.
I might have my history wrong on that
one.
It was published by image in the nineties,
then AC in the early two thousands.
And they did a couple of specials and
what big bang,
why Gary Carlson and big bang sort of
have moved to the indie planet model is
the
they ended up owing like image money at
a certain point just because like not
enough people were ordering sort of
copies.
So print on demand sort of guarantees that
you as a creator aren't going to like
lose out money creating this book.
And I think stuff like Indie Planet and
print on demand has made it a lot
easier and more accessible for people to
sort of like make and print their own
comics.
Like I was at WonderCon earlier this year
and I got approached by a guy who
was trying to do his own comics after
a panel.
And he asked me like,
how do I get this out there?
And me and Rick Offenberger,
who Dan knows,
he's the brilliant head publisher of G-Man
Comics.
Rick just said,
if you get that on Indie Planet,
you can get a copy for just yourself.
You can get like five copies for your
family and it'll just cost that.
And if anybody ever wants to buy it,
it's on there forever.
I think that's just one of the great
things about Indie Planet.
And I think stuff like Indie Planet and
like,
social media and just sort of like the
world being just more connected by the
internet it's made it a lot easier to
do independent comics like i think i have
something like twenty i have twenty odd
like writing credits to my name i think
i've met maybe three of the people i
work with face to face like
the internet's made it so much easier to
do sort of like have teams collaborate
from afar.
However,
because people are able to make comics so
much easier and because there's so much
more indie comics out there,
everybody's fighting for that spotlight.
So that is what makes it hard.
It's harder to get eyes on books.
It's harder to sort of get yourself out
there.
Sorry,
I feel like I'm droning on here a
little bit.
No, you're good.
That's the point of it.
Like I,
I'm always hustling for new gigs and new
jobs and new publishers.
And sometimes I'll apply to a place
because I think it would just be as
like it,
I think it would pay good or it
would like be a good stepping stone.
Some places I apply to just because it
would be a dream thing to work on,
or I just have a blast doing it.
And in this case,
I applied to a place that I just,
I grew up reading the publisher's comics.
It was a,
I'm a big fan of theirs.
I reached out and I said, hey,
I'm an indie writer.
I've worked for this guy, this guy,
this guy, this guy,
this guy kind of thing.
I'd love to work for you if I
can.
And they got back to me with just
like a standard like form letter.
And it was maybe the meanest email I've
gotten in my life.
They basically just- It sounds about
right.
They said, hey,
so we don't hire indie writers because
they either A,
take our characters and introduce their
own characters in the stories.
B,
they just write a Batman story and put
our character's name on it.
Or C, a bad combo of the two.
Thanks for your interest though.
And it was kind of a, I mean,
I know- It's insulting as hell.
Yeah.
To think that you wouldn't come up with
something original to present.
Yeah.
And I found it a little hurtful because
I'd worked for some of the people that
had worked there before.
And I sent like a polite follow-up that
was like, hey, I'm sorry.
I don't mean to bother you.
And I-
Like I've worked for these people and
these people and these people,
and I think they can vouch for the
fact that I don't do this and I
love these characters and I would want to
write with them.
And they got back to me eventually and
said, hey,
so that's just a form letter that we
send to everybody,
but we're still not looking for writers.
And obviously I was aware of this,
but that moment,
which happened just like two months ago,
really made me more aware of like,
There's so many people out there trying to
make indie comics.
So many people out there trying to write
indie comics.
Like you got to fight for that spotlight
and like you got to keep fighting.
I'm sorry.
Long walk for a short drink of water.
Just the point I was making is it's
very saturated and
But it's also like,
if it wasn't for Facebook,
I wouldn't have been able to meet Dan.
I wouldn't be able to work on GWP.
And like, I'm eternally grateful for that.
Like,
and I think like we talked about it
a little bit earlier is just, uh,
you and I had been in the same
circles for a while.
You'd read some of my books.
I'd read some of yours and I reached
out and said, Hey, like,
I'm not like looking to get paid,
but can I help you with something?
And that led to the, uh,
It was the Argo Comics double shot number
five story, right?
Night Ranger meets Law and Order.
Yeah.
Okay, awesome.
I got that.
I got that.
Heck yeah.
And that was a ton of fun.
Very similar to GWP.
Dan sent me sort of the finished artwork
for something and told me what happened.
And I just got to come up with
the dialogue for it.
And, you know,
it was just a lot of fun.
It's why I was so thrilled to do
like the next gig and then GWP.
I love writing comics and I like working
with Dan.
Yeah.
So with that being said, go ahead, Dan.
I was going to say,
in our correspondence and in reading Ray's
other material, as I said,
I purchased all these other, you know,
Big Bang and G-Man and a lot of
these standard comics.
I'm purchasing these books and I'm seeing
an intelligence in the writing that
And through our correspondence,
as you can see,
what I was talking about in the fact
that I don't want to put out a
Marvel book or a DC book because they're
already there.
I came to find, you know, Ray had,
you know,
that mind to be able to pull things
out of these characters and give it an
angle because what he said is true.
There are
writers who are gonna give you, you know,
they're a Batman fan and in their mind,
okay, that's your Batman,
I'm gonna go and then you're done because
Batman's already got those fans.
They're not going to want to go to
you for, you know, that bootleg Batman.
Yeah.
There are a couple of companies,
and some have even admittedly with Big
Bang...
They are homage characters.
That is another niche in the fact that
a lot of us don't get the Superman
we want, the Batman we want,
the Flash we want.
So there is an indie comic company that
could give them that.
We have unexplored histories of different
characters where public domain publishers
can play,
which I did one myself with Nature Man.
being a revival of the public domain
Nature Boy character, back from Charlton,
created by Jerry Siegel and John Buscema.
So there is a place for that.
But I found, again, Ray,
in these drafts of the comics or even
some of the stories we are currently
developing uh you know something akin to
what i'm looking for which not every
writer is uh is going to be able
to provide that and he's already worked
with ron a number of times ron williams
admittedly the art was done for him ahead
of time this time and actually ron did
it
a little while ago,
so he's been waiting for us to finally
put this out.
And Tio Pinheiro...
the colors uh you know you've seen the
preview ray you've seen all the pages so
uh very proud of this book and you
know uh uh i think uh it's worthwhile
to put it into the comic market um
if
You know,
if it didn't turn out this good,
you know,
I might shop around the publishers or
something like that.
But this is something that I think
everyone involved did a great job and will
be very proud of it when that Kickstarter
launches.
You wouldn't be kickstarting it if you
didn't think it was worthwhile.
And part of the reason why I had
such a blast doing GWP is I'm looking
over the artwork and reading Dan's
outlines for it,
and I hadn't really read a story like
this before.
And these characters,
I haven't really seen characters like this
before.
So it was something new and fun that
I got to play around with.
What I really enjoyed about working on GWP
was it was kind of a new challenge
for me because as Dan said,
like all the art was drawn and colored
and like ready to go before I even
saw it.
And then I sort of got to take
like the narrative threads that Dan
started with and sort of weave them into
this or like weave them into like a
tapestry over top of the art to like
make it into just the awesome story that
I think we're excited to launch.
I like it.
So one of my goals when I started
in twenty twenty six was how do I
make indie comics mainstream?
And with that being said,
do you think a lot of the mainstream
readers or just readers in general are
becoming more open to creator owned books?
And I'll start with you, Dan.
Well.
I think, yeah,
people have been able to overcome just
this prejudice of only the big two.
And this is, I mean,
look at Ray's shirt.
And, you know,
I have a life-size Superman in my comics
room.
There's nothing that I do not like about,
you know,
much of the output that the big two
has made.
There he goes.
I mean, yeah,
you've always shown action figures.
I made this Doc Sampson before there was
a Doc Sampson Marvel Legends.
I said,
I got to make my own Doc Sampson.
That's awesome.
That is really cool.
Again, they just released him,
but for years there was no Captain
Nefaria.
Yeah.
So this was a custom Count Nefaria.
So yeah, I mean, I'm a big fan.
I could talk on and on about the
big two comics.
But I think the indie comics now,
you have
television shows like the boys and
invincible uh yeah these are long dead
these are things that have allowed uh i
mean over the years teenage mutant ninja
journals probably brooks and barriers the
tick i mean yeah
that, yeah,
there's stuff that's worthwhile in indie
comics.
So I think that some of that,
you'll still have, you know,
they used to call the Marvel zombie.
You'll add to some degree,
you might even just have a Marvel movie
zombie.
It's like,
I don't bother with those books,
but those movies are great.
So, but I think with the greater exposure,
to these independent properties.
I think, yeah,
the stigma of an indie just being a
copy of the big two characters
kind of eased up a little you'll still
have it you'll still see the guy who
says oh he has a cape and he
flies is that your superman oh he has
a cape he doesn't fly is that your
batman uh oh the colors are red and
yellow is that your phoenix it's just yeah
something that they can associate because
they're protective of that and i can
understand i love the characters as well
So you're going to perhaps,
if you don't have that creativity,
and I think throughout this whole episode,
I've been telling you,
I'm looking outside of things,
trying to bring different things into
characters that I'm not seeing in comics
before.
I think people, to some degree,
as long as they're not
that mobile zombie, whatever,
accept that now and see that there is
stuff that's worthwhile in the indies.
Right?
I mean, yeah,
I really couldn't agree more.
Sometimes I feel like I don't have the
best perspective because...
like nobody at my high school was into
comics.
So I'm kind of just used to it
being like my thing.
And I'm cool with that.
And I'm really lucky now that I have
like friends that read comics.
Like I was just having a conversation with
one of my coworkers today and he's a
huge Buffy fan and like follows like Angel
and Buffy.
And they just announced that they're doing
an Angel comic that like- I just bought
a collection of old Buffy and Xena.
That's awesome.
But they just announced they're doing a
new Angel comic where it's going to pick
up right from the finale.
And he said,
I wonder how to get my hands on
this.
And I just kind of looked at him
and I was like, dude,
I'll just get you a copy and you
can pay me back kind of thing.
So I may have just created a new
comic fan today.
Yeah.
Sorry, but I think,
I really do think shows like Invincible
and The Boys have really helped bring sort
of indie characters to the mainstream
because, well,
The Boys is dynamite and Invincible's
image, oh man,
I don't know how- They're both image.
For a second.
He's got the big eye on his chest.
And-
I just think that it's getting better and
better for indies.
And you see new announcements every day.
Not sure if you guys would be familiar
with this.
El Gato Negro.
Richard E. Dominguez.
He's a comic creator who created the
first...
Latino independent comic superhero.
Amazon is doing a show based on that.
It should come out in a year or
two.
That Texas Blood is getting a TV show
adaptation.
That's going to be so good if it
follows the book.
Oh my gosh, I know, right?
That Texas Blood is getting a TV show
adaptation.
Something is Killing the Children.
Yes.
Three other of his properties are getting
either animated or live action series from
Tinian.
Yeah,
and like the Bloodshot movie broke my
heart, but I'm still playing Valiant.
I'll turn it around at some point.
Come on, please make a Ninjak movie.
I'm begging you, make a Ninjak movie.
But that's neither here nor there.
But I think comics are becoming more
mainstream.
I think more and more people are sort
of looking outside of Marvel and DC and
looking to the titles.
And hopefully a lot of those eyes are
going to fall on us.
When's the Argo five movie?
Yeah, that's, uh,
or would you rather an animated show like
invincible?
Uh, yeah, I'd probably go, uh,
animated being, uh, animated more,
I guess, in line with the comics, but,
uh, you know, actually in Kickstarter, uh,
you'll see some people who are pretty much
animating, uh,
on their Kickstarter video and.
You know,
that's always good and everything.
And if it got an option,
that'd be one thing.
But some people take that on as a
second hobby.
And, you know,
I'm at Argo fight number forty eight is
because I've concentrated on making the
book rather than getting sidetracked.
A lot of people with these.
So I just seen a company that's actually
they will take your comic book and animate
it.
Like, it still looks like a comic book,
but the pages and stuff,
like certain action sequences on the page
are animated.
Yeah, no, that's a cool thing to do.
That's awesome.
Yeah.
It was like a random thing I just
ran across.
I was like, oh, that's cool,
and I just kept scrolling.
Any comic creators out there,
just so you know,
Richard Dominguez from El Gato Negro,
we have a Facebook group, Creators United.
Oh, right.
Of course you would know from that, Dan.
Yeah, just if anyone's interested in,
you know,
some comics discussion and everything,
each year I've organized an indie comic
book calendar with them with proceeds
going to the Hero Initiative.
So...
And I guess it's still in development.
Richard, myself, John Arujo,
we have a little project we've been
putting together for a number of years on
and off.
So I'll see if we can get that
completed at some point.
And yeah, it involves Elgato Negro,
John's Andromeda character.
and Maya Shazareth from Argo V,
that multi-deity I mentioned before.
So it's been delayed.
It's on and off.
He has a lot going on,
like you said,
with that show for El Gato Negro.
But we, you know, it's always,
that interaction with other publishers is
always one of the most fun things about
indie comics.
Not like the Thunder Zone,
because that was,
Again,
bringing a number of indie publishers
together,
putting those characters on the same
earth.
And, you know,
I was in that bubble for years with
Argo Comics, all my own characters.
That interaction adds another flavor to
comics creation that's very enjoyable.
So do y'all think audiences want new
superheroes?
Yes, absolutely.
I think we're sorry, go ahead.
I was gonna say yes.
Again,
I think as long as you're giving them
something a little different.
There.
And they're kind of captured by the,
let's say,
concept or elevator pitch or whatever.
Again, with clickbait.
a book that I have in pre-launch,
I explained it and someone said,
that's your best concept yet.
Because again, it was just,
it fell into place for them.
And I think, or again, with the book,
Big House Blues,
that's corrections officers who are,
you know, in a supervillain prison,
all the superiors are corrections
officers.
That was again, a concept that,
People are like, okay,
I haven't seen that.
Why hasn't that been done?
And people tell me that would be a
natural to be on film.
So I think, yeah, people want superheroes,
but they want something different,
which is why The Boys give you something
different.
Invisible gives you something different.
I think both of those give you something
different partially in the category of
gore,
but
It is.
Yeah, they were toned down.
I don't think people are going to realize
how much both those properties were toned
down to be put on TV.
Yeah,
people talk about like how crazy The Boys
is.
And I read all those comics at way
too young an age.
And I kind of just look at them
and I have to be like,
you have no idea what the G-Men are
in The Boys.
In that comic,
they are so different than they are in
the TV show.
That is something you could never put on
screen.
There's stuff in the boys' comics that I
will never unsee.
Dude,
there's some stuff that happens to Mark in
Invincible that you can't even talk about
on a live podcast.
Oh, that's going to happen in the show.
I'm pretty sure.
I don't think we get that in the
show.
Well,
they keep pushing boundaries a little more
and a little more.
They do,
but there's a few scenes that happen to
Mark that I don't think we will get.
Yeah, I have the compendiums.
I did read that entire series.
But, yeah, they're, you know, to top that,
I don't know where they're going to have
to go.
They might have to do a Faust or
something from Brian Kim Vigil to top what
they've been doing already.
A Faust show,
that would just be like nonstop gore.
yeah like i've read some of those issues
holy cow faust is something else man yeah
so what do y'all think is missing for
mainstream superhero comics honestly
I mean,
I find it hard to complain because,
I'll be honest,
I'm loving Absolute Batman.
I know some people think it's going too
far or it's too crazy.
Love Absolute Batman.
Love Absolute Superman.
Marvel just killed off Captain America in
both the Ultimate and real-life universes,
so my interest in them has kind of
gone... Give it ten minutes.
Yeah,
I'm thinking he'll be back after this
summer's event,
but I was really enjoying Chip Zdarsky's
series with Captain America,
so the fact that they've killed him off
is a little annoying.
Uh...
But I think what I'd want to see
more of is just like more indie superhero
series doing more sort of unique takes.
Like,
did you guys read Local Man by Tim
Seeley from Image?
That book is amazing.
I mean,
obviously I'm biased because I love Big
Bang Comics and I love Nineteen
Sixty-Three by Alan Moore,
and both of those series are sort of
homaging like the Bronze and Silver Age
eras of comics.
This was one of the first comics I
read that was sort of doing that sort
of Alan Moore-y sort of taking a look
at this era, but through a critical lens.
But they were doing that to nineties
comics.
And I think it's because those guys like
Tim Seeley grew up on nineties comics.
I think it's just really interesting.
And I'm so bummed that that series got,
not canceled,
but it got put on like indefinite hiatus
just because it wasn't selling enough
copies.
And that really bums me out because I
thought it was just such a unique take.
And that's what we need more of.
And there's Matt, how you doing?
Matt Hasso,
amazing writer of Phantom Hawk, Quickwire,
many titles for Grok Comics,
and many amazing upcoming projects.
Scripter extraordinaire.
Don't inflate him.
Don't inflate his ego.
You know how big his ego is.
Come on, man.
All right, I'll leave it be.
I had a few more amazing things to
say, but I'll...
Another fine Canadian right here with Dee.
Hope Dee's having a wonderful night.
Thanks for joining us.
But, Dan, I'll kick it over to you.
Did you have a chance to answer that
one?
Sorry, I rambled on there.
You're good, Ray.
I think I answered, right?
Didn't I answer first?
For the what's missing from mainstream
superhero comics.
Well, I think –
the mainstream superhero comics,
as far as like the big two,
I heard someone make this statement,
probably true for me,
they aren't really being made for me.
And, you know,
with however many reboots there's been,
I really just want like an X-Men book
that has like Wolverine, Nightcrawler,
Colossus,
storm and they've kind of like spread them
out you know give you one in this
book one in that book one because they
have to have a whole x-men line of
books um so and just like with the
absolutes uh
You know, they're not really...
Same thing with New Fifty-Two.
It's like these alternate versions that I
just can't find myself really invested
with.
So when it comes to mainstream,
I find myself more a fan of different
artists.
So if this artist is drawing whatever he's
drawing, I can take a chance...
even if I'm not going to be so
enthralled with the story,
that I'm going to have some beautiful art
to look at.
Because, you know,
and not everyone's doing it in the style
of what I have come to accept as
great comic art, because there was a time,
let's say maybe the nineties where the
page rates were at their highest.
So you had some of the best
book with a lot of detail and
cross-hatching and everything like that,
that economics doesn't really give the
artist the time because they got to turn
out more pages to achieve it.
So we have a more basic
style that you might see in the current
mainstream comics there are some like Nick
Bradshaw who still carries the torch or
you know that whole line from Brian Hitch
and Gary Frank those guys are now doing
their own books because the page rates
aren't where they should be so I find
myself more like I said a fan of
following artists these days
And what's missing for me is, like,
I guess some of the nostalgia because,
you know, I just, enough already.
Just make that DC guy Captain Marvel
again.
He says Shazam to turn into Captain
Marvel.
Let's not go as Shazam, Alakazam,
or my name is Shazam,
but you have to say it with meaning.
It's all this muddling of the rich history
of the character
That kind of takes me out of it.
So I guess what's missing for me is
getting back to basics.
Don't they call him the captain now or
something?
Captain, I don't know where Tennille is,
but the older viewers will like that joke,
Captain and Tennille.
But, yeah, they keep trying to fix him.
So all you keep getting is these reboots
to try to fix them,
and they just can't get back to what
made the character great in the first
place.
I can never speak on any of the
big two stuff because I don't read but
very few things from the big two.
Even the stuff that I do read from
the big two,
probably nobody else has interest in.
So it's kind of odd that way.
I'm just,
I'm pretty much a pure indie guy at
this point in my life.
So, but we're gonna go over,
we're gonna do talk a little bit more
about the Kickstarter campaign.
And then we're gonna start wrapping this
up.
So why can backers expect from the
upcoming campaign?
Like what kind of
Are you just a pure comic book guy?
You're getting the comic book?
Or do you have stickers and all these
fun things planned for this book?
At this point, okay, this is, I guess,
campaign number sixteen.
I have a pretty good track record of
getting the books out to people.
The books go directly
from the printer to you.
So you're not waiting for them to ship
them to me and then me to package
them up and then send them to each
of you.
There's a bit of stress with some backing
of Kickstarters and the fact that I'm a
super backer myself.
I have books that I have not received.
And it's almost like those were more kind
of hero initiative
donations there because I just am
supporting people that even a couple of
them I know personally and kind of knew
that they're probably not going to follow
through, unfortunately.
So in that respect,
since it goes directly from the printer,
I have been sticking with books.
I haven't
been thrown in what I call the touch
keys.
Keep it simple.
Keep it simple.
You know, I had one Kickstarter,
an eleven by seventeen print that was
folded to get mailed to me.
Buttons seemed to
have the potential to bend the comic a
little bit and people kind of...
Indent it.
Indent it.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm a lover of comics.
Obviously, I have way too many, again,
all in printed form.
So I find that,
along with some collections,
to be a worthwhile endeavor.
If it gets to that point, I mean,
hey, me and Ray kind of mentioned it,
a GWP shirt would be pretty cool.
You know,
one day you could wear your NWO shirt,
then you could wear your GWP shirt.
So yeah, these things,
I would have to kind of figure it
out to make sense.
Because again,
if we're trying to expedite the shipping
directly from the printer to you,
so you get this book in a reasonable
amount of time,
Then you're talking about this
merchandise,
a separate shipping charge for me to order
them, come to me, ship out to you.
So for now, we're all about the comics.
I like that.
That's one of my favorite, you know,
when they ask, oh,
what's the rewards for this Kickstarter?
And they just go to the comic.
I'm like, that's my favorite one.
Because half the time I can't remember
what I ordered or if there's any perks
coming my way.
Honestly, I just want the comic book.
Yeah, agreed.
So with this book,
and this is going to be for both
of you,
what are you most excited for readers to
experience?
And I'll start that with Ray.
Yeah.
All right.
Okay.
Honestly,
I'm just excited for people to experience
kind of a different kind of superhero
story.
That's what I really like about GWP.
That's what Dan's sort of vision is.
That's what I was trying to get with
sort of my scripting and dialogue is these
are characters that you haven't really
seen before.
This is a story that you haven't really
seen before.
It's still a superhero story,
but we're trying to tell it in a
different way.
And I'm hoping people will think it's a
brush.
I was almost about to say a brush
of fresh air,
which tells you how tired I am.
But I think people will find it's a
breath of fresh air.
And I think people are going to really
like it.
And I really hope what people are going
to take away most from it is I
want issue two and three.
But yeah, I'm just really excited.
I'm excited to just get it out there
in the world, get people talking about it,
get people enjoying it.
I want people to enjoy the comic most
of all, you know?
Reasonable.
You're a reasonable man, Ray.
I do mind about you.
Yeah, I'll look forward to, you know,
having some people read this.
And, you know, there isn't...
I don't have a letters page,
but I do get some feedback.
And it's always great to hear what people
are thinking about it.
And again,
we've kind of crafted something that's
different.
So I'm eager to see feedback on this.
And I think...
I'm happy to at least, again, Ron,
put some hard work into these three
issues.
Beautiful artwork.
Yeah.
I mean, and Tio Pinheiro on colors.
I think these are two creators that,
you know,
people have seen in some other projects.
uh this combination on two issues of that
corrections officers comic big house blues
um so that's where i said you know
ron's the perfect artist for this and he
uh i believe really delivered teal's
colors accentuated that um and again these
are some concepts that i have to get
into it a little bit with the colorist
and let him know
When you have phase existing in a
multitude of dimensions,
you have some specifics there that need to
be represented.
Perhaps you can't just say,
here's a guy punching another guy in a
city street.
But again,
the attention to detail that I think the
whole crew gave this
will really be something that Rita is
going to take note of.
I like it.
So at this point,
we're going to do some rapid fire
questions,
and then we're going to close this out.
Don't think, just speak.
When I say these,
we'll start all the questions with Dan,
and then Ray, you answer right after,
all right?
OK.
Favorite superhero, all time.
Superman.
Batman.
Ooh, I'm playing opposites.
Marvel or DC?
I'd have to go DC.
DC.
Marvel has better movies.
DC has better comics.
That's my line in the sand.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.
Physical or digital?
Yeah, I've already said that.
I'm obviously a physical reader.
Much to the detriment of my storage
abilities and the house is really getting
overflown with this stuff,
but physical for me.
Most underrated comic character.
I'll go with Doc Sampson since I just
had him over here.
He never got the proper treatment.
He was in pro wrestling terms.
the jobber for the Hulk.
And the fact that the villain would show
up,
beat up Doc Sampson to show that he's
tough, and the Hulk would beat him up.
Hercules pretty much served the same role
for Thor in the, uh, seventies.
So, uh,
I'll say Doc Sampson's the most
underrated.
Hercules at least got his time in the
sun.
Can I do two?
I'm going to give you one,
unless they're a combo.
Hellboy.
Hellboy, Hellboy, Hellboy.
People only know the movies,
and because one or two of the movies
are kind of crappy,
people assume it's just kind of a dumb
character.
The comics are some of the best ones
I've ever read in my life.
Fucking great answer, dude.
People sleep on Hellboy.
Great answer.
I'm going to go with somebody,
or actually a group of guys from the
same band.
And that's going to be the dead boy
detectives.
I love their stuff and we don't get
enough of them.
And I was pissed when they ended that
series early,
but I understand why they did it.
But favorite comic run ever.
Well, that is tough,
but I guess I'll go with the Byrne
Claremont X-Men just off the top of my
head.
Oh, God.
Okay,
this is off the top of my head.
This can't go down in history.
It's my favorite of all time,
though it definitely deserves a spot.
The Lee Kirby Captain America run.
Holy crap.
It's just so good.
I'll go Alan Moore's Swamp Thing.
Oh, crap.
That's what I should have said.
No, that's a better answer.
That's a much better answer.
People always forget that one.
I don't know why.
All right.
Favorite superhero movie.
Favorite superhero movie.
Superhero movie.
That is tough.
I guess...
I'm kind of flip-flopping between
Christopher Reeve's Superman and the first
Avengers movie.
Both great choices.
It's tough.
Oh, crap.
It's me now.
Either The Dark Knight, The Incredibles,
or Unbreakable.
Great choices,
especially the trilogy there.
I will go Brandon Lee, The Crow.
The Crow is so good.
It's a comic book, so it's fair game.
Oh, yeah.
I gave one of my friends one of
my copies of The Crow recently just
because they had to.
The book or the comic?
The comic.
Was it a first print or a second?
It was like the remastered edition James
O'Barr a couple years ago.
Yeah, I picked up the same one.
I was going to say,
if you gave away a James O'Barr first
print,
you just signed over like twelve hundred
bucks.
Thank God that wasn't the case.
I wish I had one of those.
Dream crossover with GWP.
Dream crossover with GWP.
I will go...
I'll go ABC Comics Top Ten.
That's really good.
So, you know,
they would have to visit that super town.
So I guess they would find themselves in
there.
But it's one of my favorite series.
You know what?
Scratch that.
I'll go GWP Elementals.
Oh, that would be cool.
That would be really cool.
That actually works a little better.
Right.
Right.
Oh gosh.
And I have a, all right,
let's think might be basic.
I got to go daredevil.
I think that'd be interesting because he's
a bit more of a traditional crime fighter
than them,
but he kind of deals with mostly low-level
mob bosses.
He's a street little guy.
Imagine GWP versus The Hand.
That would be cool.
Hey,
why not throw in the Ninja Turtles and
have them face the foot?
That would be better.
I like it.
All right, guys.
Before I let you go,
need both of you to let everybody know
where they can find you and we'll start
with you dan okay uh yeah there's social
media on dan sen but there's also social
media on argo comics so yeah on uh
like instagram and youtube i have uh argo
comics blue sky argo comics uh facebook i
have both so you can uh look it
up either way there um
On Kickstarter itself,
you can probably search me as Argo Comics.
And let's see.
Am I leaving anything out?
Yeah, the YouTube channel Argo Comics.
But again, that's just me exploring.
I have some director's cuts of early
issues of Argo Five where I discuss what
went into them.
But most of it is what indie comics
I'm picking up.
and why I picked them up.
Right on.
And I'm just Ray McKay on Facebook or
Ray McKay writes on Instagram.
And if you punch me into YouTube,
a bunch of other shows or interviews I've
done come up.
No website or anything like that for me
yet.
But yeah, just those two,
Ray McKay and Ray McKay writes on
Instagram.
That's how you find me.
I highly recommend everybody start with
his first appearance on the USDM podcast
with the Hasso man.
That's where I always start.
Number one.
There you go.
But I want to say a huge thanks
to both Dan and Ray for joining us
tonight.
Last minute, we pulled this show off.
So big thanks to both of you guys
for being ready to go last minute.
That means the world to me and also
the Council of Nerds.
And again, for joining us to discuss GWP,
Guys with Powers,
and the realities of building a
creator-owned superhero universe through
Kickstarter.
Make sure you support the campaign,
follow the creators,
and continue supporting indie comics
projects like this.
Like this only exists when readers decide
they matter.
Ladies and gentlemen,
this has been the USDM Podcast,
where indie comics come to life.
The Council of Nerds is now adjourned.
Y'all be safe out there.
Thank you.
Thanks a lot.