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HR Voices is a scenario-based podcast for People Leaders who’ve actually had to make the call.
Each episode brings experienced HR and People leaders into realistic, anonymized workplace scenarios—the kind you recognize immediately. Performance issues. Messy conflicts. Investigations that don’t fit neatly into a policy box. Instead of talking about their own companies, guests react to outside cases and walk through how they’d think it through in real time.
There are no right answers here. What you’ll hear is judgment: how seasoned leaders balance risk, fairness, legal reality, and humanity when the stakes are high and the path isn’t obvious.
HR Voices is for HR, People Ops, legal, and leaders who want to hear how other smart humans actually handle employee relations—without confidentiality breaches, hypotheticals that feel fake, or a lecture on “best practices.”
riverside_d'mar_& rebecca_hr_voices studio
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[00:00:00] Welcome to HR Voices, a podcast where people leaders share their side of the story. We talk about the challenges they're facing, how they're addressing them, and what changes they hope to see as the workplace evolves. This podcast is sponsored by AllVoices, the all-in-one employee relations platform.
Hello, and welcome to HR Voices. I'm your host, Rebecca Taylor, and I'm here with my guest, D'Mar Phillips, VP of People and Culture at RS Americas. D'Mar, thank you so much for being here. Thanks, Becca, for having me. Yeah. I'm so excited for this conversation 'cause I know that we kind of just picked this scenario right before we started recording.
Yeah. But I feel like, you know, it's one of those things that it sounds like it's something that, you know, folks may have experienced in so many different types of areas, so I'm really excited- Yeah ... to chat this through. I've actually secretly been trying to get people to pick this scenario for a bit. So I'm very glad that you're game for it.
Of course, of course. My pleasure. And to be honest, all three of the scenarios could've been something that we talked about, uh, because they all [00:01:00] happen every single day, uh- Right ... around businesses. So, uh, happy to add my voice to our scenario today. Yeah. And that's what this podcast is about. You know, HR Voices explores real and fabricated anonymized employee relation scenarios through the lens of experienced HR and people leaders just like D'Mar.
So we're gonna evaluate a realistic workplace situation and demonstrate how we'll assess risk, apply judgment, and design practical responses. So as I always say, our goal here is to not reveal one correct answer because that- Sure ... so rarely exists. We're here to just talk through how we will face ambiguity and how we think through what we might have to do depending on kind of what gets on our desk that particular day.
Yeah. So if you're here to chat through the gray, thank you so much for listening, and D'Mar, thank you for having this conversation with me. My pleasure. All right. Are you ready for your scenario? I don't know. Am I? I hope so, 'cause now you have to be. I know, right? I'm ready. Let's go. All righty. So we're [00:02:00] calling this the Social Media Outing.
A manager discovers through personal social media browsing that one of her direct reports, who's not out at work, is gay. She does not tell the employee she knows, but begins steering s- team social activities towards LGBTQ+ inclusive events and mentions Pride Month more poi- more pointedly in team meetings.
So the employee eventually confronts her, saying he feels that she's signaling that she knows, which makes him uncomfortable and violates his privacy. The manager insists her intentions were positive, so now HR must navigate whether well-intentioned inclusion efforts can themselves constitute harassment, and what duty of confidentiality applies to information obtained outside the workplace.
That's a great- It's a scenario ... great scenario, right? Uh, because it does happen all the time, and whether it's someone's sexuality or, or even someone that has had a domestic abuse situation or any of these other things that is private and [00:03:00] personal- ... um, that ends up on social media because everyone has a camera, everyone has, uh, a, a YouTube, a, a Twitter, X, whatever you wanna call it, Facebook account and even LinkedIn at some point.
Everyone has those, and information gets disseminated where you might have thought it was protected because you personally didn't share it. But it's out there in social media, and guess what? It's gonna remain in social media until it's taken down, which is in perpetuity. Yep. And so this is a very real type of a situation and scenario that could happen at any moment.
And so- Yeah ... what do you do with it? I think, you know, your first question is around what does HR do when that comes to your desk? Yeah. And taking a break, taking a breath to examine what just happened is probably what they should do first. Yeah. Um, just take a moment to gather your thoughts, gather yourself.
You realize that there's probably not ill [00:04:00] intent that's done with this. Most people aren't trying to out someone in the workplace. But to the person who is outed or feel like they're being targeted, it's a real situation that needs to be addressed. And so you have two opposing sides. Both of them feel very validated in their opinions and how they feel.
And to the HR person who's caught in the middle, because that's where you're at is in the middle, you have to make some decisions about how you, one, calm the situation down. Two, listen to both parties. And three, come up with some reasonable explanation so that we can move on from this protecting both individuals that are involved.
Yeah. Yeah. It's a true story of intent versus impact, right? Right. 'Cause I don't see anything malicious just even in this, in the initial kind of run-through of it. Yeah. But definitely, you know, to your point, the, it sort of becomes a conversation around [00:05:00] what matters more. Is it the intent- Right ... of the action?
Is it the impact on the person who's affected? And this is kind of what we get to talk through. Yeah. And so, even just to start off, as you're, you know, as you hear what some of the pieces are of this story, and for, for the record, this is fabricated, but- Yeah ... this stuff happens all the time or something very similar happens all the time.
So what stands out to you as the most risky or unclear? Well, I think for me, what's unclear is motive, right? So does anyone have a motive behind what was received? Why is the individual out looking for information? Uh, or was information just leaked to the individual? So truly, what is the motive behind the manager's thought of, let me try to target some ERG-related activities so that you feel more included without having a confirmation from the individual that, hey, I am gay, I want to have my voice heard, I want to [00:06:00] feel more included.
Without that information, it's all just guesswork, right? So we don't have any real solutions, uh, to that. I think the other thing that's unclear is- what is going through the mind of the individual who has just felt like they've been outed? Do they feel like the company is letting them down, or is it just this individual?
Has there been any situations in the past where they've had run-ins with each other where there's a trust issue that could be there or a violation of trust, right? Employees need to feel like they have a level of psychological safety within the work environment, and to be outed, whether it's at work, at home, at the store, at a club, wherever your situation or scenario is, that's a very real event and activity that has consequences for the individual who is being outed and those people who either care or don't care about that person.
And so you have to handle that very [00:07:00] delicately and provide support to make sure that, one, their needs are being met, two, their voices are being heard, and three, they have the level of support that they need to be able to get through this. Yeah. And it's so true because there's, there's so many implications to coming out, not coming out to your family, to work, to- Right
you know, whatever the situation might be. And you have to kind of think about there's a reason why this person seems like they're out elsewhere but is not out at work. Right. And, and I think that's what makes it... It's kind of what makes me wonder about culture overall, or maybe just someone just wanting separation.
Right. I know there's this move and, you know, there's a lot of talk about bringing your whole self to work. Yeah. Um, and I think that is an individual choice about how much of that you really want to do, because some are in a privileged position where they can, where everything about them is truly accepted [00:08:00] everywhere- Yeah
but not everybody is. And, that's the — that's kind of, I think I could probably go on a whole tangent about that, but - You, you could, and let, let me join you on that tangent, right? Because, I mean, culturally things are different, right? Yeah. So one group might feel very open, very honest, very supported.
Another group might not feel that way. There's still companies that discriminate from promotions and providing- Mm-hmm ... opportunity for folks who are not like the mass. And I think HR departments need to be sensitive to that, right? Yeah ... we have a whole environment right now where the seriousness of your orientation is challenged, whether it's in the courts, whether it's in public opinion, whether it's political.
Um, and so to safeguard information that you have, even if you stumble across it, you have to treat that as it's not work material. And so it's just [00:09:00] stay out of work- Yeah ... uh, for that manager who got information that they should not have gotten, uh- Yeah ... in my opinion. And then the support that is provided to the individual, you know, if, if he or she wanted to talk to that individual, while I don't recommend doing that because of a Facebook post, because again, it could also be fabricated information, it could be fake, it could be false.
Yep. It could be a a sentence out of a paragraph that you fully don't comprehend or understand just yet. Yep. And so if that employee feels like they need to confide in someone, they probably will go to HR, or they would go to their supervisor that they trust, but they're not gonna go to a supervisor that they don't trust.
Yeah. And to me, this scenario, there's an undermining of trust that exists- Yeah ... that has to be breached. Uh, they have to figure out how to move on, which is why HR has a part to play. But we should also agree that personal social media [00:10:00] information is not work knowledge or work information. Yeah. So you can't take one and use it to destroy someone, or to even uplift someone, because it's not relevant to the work that they're doing.
Yeah. Yeah. So well said. So perfectly said. And it's kind of, I have a whole opinion about being friends with people on social media who you work with. I don't even have social media other than LinkedIn- ... because I'm just like, it just seemed too much. Right. Well, and yeah, and, and quite frankly, I don't wanna know.
So- Yeah, yeah ... my personal policy is, look, I will accept you on LinkedIn because that is a professional- Yeah ... I am not accepting any colleagues on Facebook. I'm not replying to your Facebook messages. Nope. Um, why? Because one day, what if I have to terminate you as part of my job? Yes. And then you come and, and blow up my social media feed because I'm the evil person- Yep
that had to end your career, even though it was not my [00:11:00] fault personally. Yep. It's just a function. And so separating the two, I think that's very important. And earlier you talked about, you know, someone who is out at work or may not be out at work, yeah, people make different de- decisions about what they're most comfortable about.
And so he or she might have people in the workplace that know their orientation- Yep ... know their family, but it's not- Everyone's business- Right ... about that individual, unless they choose to share that with others. Yep. And so I think managers, and in this particular scenario, we have a greater duty of care to ensure that we're not breaching the trust that has been given to us by our employees, whether we have information or not.
Yeah. Um, unless it's something that could create an emergency situation- Right ... such as someone is posting on Facebook that they're gonna murder everybody. Right. And then if we don't do something with that, that's our fault. Then we need to do something. Yeah. But [00:12:00] something like someone's personal preference, someone's personal choice, someone's life that they have no control over- Yep
that has nothing to do with the workplace. Yeah. We gotta sometimes make the choice of just doing nothing- Yeah ... and letting them manage their own lives respectively. Yeah, and let them have the agency- Yeah ... over their own discretion. Like- That's right ... you know, that, that's the, I think that's the thing that's just, you know, so important in this whole thing.
And so if you- Yeah ... do have a scenario like this where you ha- you know, now you have to talk to, you have to talk to people, right? So now you have to- That's right ... kind of begin the process. So who do you talk to first? Do you talk to the employee? Do you talk to the manager? How do you kinda go about, now you're involved.
How do you- Yeah ... go about the discussions? I need to talk to them both, but I won't do it together, right? Right. Um, because I need to assess the damage that's been done. You know, so I think talking to the employee first because they're the ones that has seemingly more, more at [00:13:00] stake. If I were to make a quick judgment, uh, which I don't recommend you doing, but just for the sake of this scenario, I'm gonna make a quick assessment that they're hurt in some instance.
They feel called out and they feel like there's a lack of trust. And so trying to understand the psychologic- the psychology of where they're at, uh, what their mental, emotional state is, uh, do they feel like psychological safety has been damaged? We need to make some assessments there. Even to the point of of recommending, "Hey, realize this is a tough, difficult situation.
We also have Employee Assistance Programs-" "... where you can talk to a counselor, talk to someone who is even outside of HR," to give them some resources to be able to talk to people at The Trevor Project, people at, you know, certain different things, to help them to cope with what's happened. Because being outed starts its own level of- Internal turmoil that has to be kept in check, you know, [00:14:00] "Hey, I got to go through this, this, this."
They have a grieving process- Yeah ... that has to occur because they did not control the narrative themselves, and so that's a process they'd have to go through. So trying to figure out what the right level of support for them first, because I'm most concerned about their psyche and their psychology. I think that's where I would start.
And then not trying to put the manager in a defensive or negative light, but having the conversation with them you know, to try to understand, okay, is there a value that was, you know, that we were trying to uphold here? Yeah. Is there, you know, some reasoning behind this situation? Was there a cry for help that you thought you heard?
You know, what was your... And you got to be careful not to as- assign blame to them. Yeah. But really trying to understand what were you thinking in this process- Yeah ... and how to help them navigate fixing the issue. Because there is a breakdown that's there, a breakdown in communication, breakdown in trust and if this is a workable so- [00:15:00] solution.
I liked in the scenario that they hadn't really shared all that much, but they were just doing these activities, because you might be able to pull it back. Yeah. The problem is, is if there are unintended consequences with the reaction from the employee has given other people a license to act out and say certain things.
Mm-hmm. So you have to kind of control that whole situation and try to rein it in. But I would start with the employee first in this scenario- Yeah ... and then follow up with the manager. Yeah. I'd agree. Especially for, there's the human, there's the psychology component, and there's also the risk component.
More of your risk- Right ... lies with the employee, 'cause the employee- Right ... can be the one to ma- you know, say the, make a claim. Um- Exactly. That could be harassment, you know. Mm-hmm. Um, this person shared information that was protected information, I feel discriminated against. I mean, there's a whole litany of things, uh, that, that could come out of a man- Because again, as a manager, as a leader, [00:16:00] you have a duty of care to the employee base, to the company, to uphold our policies and procedures and practices.
Yeah. And anyone that is executing on information that they have without it being a legitimate reason to be able to do so, puts the company at risk. And so, you know, my other call would be to the legal team. Yeah. Yeah. You know- I would too ... what's, what's the recommendation? How we- Yeah ... how do we navigate this, right?
That's the part that sometimes is hard in some of these conversations too, 'cause it's- Mm-hmm ... it's, you know, you wanna connect to the people part of the story and, there's, this is the thing that's always so hard about HR, is showing up as, me as the human and as the person who has- Right
uh, my own biases, opinions, experiences that might influence how I perceive this particular scenario or any scenario. Then there's the, you know, the business operator who's like, "Okay, I have a job to do. I have to, I have a role to play in figuring this out." And then now I also have to bring in a legal team, which when you're dealing with a scenario, [00:17:00] most employee relations scenarios are kind of sensitive, whether it's about, this particular situation or if it's an employee who's maybe underperforming.
Like, there's so many different things that are so sensitive and it- it's just once you have to kind of start to bring in like a legal team, it just kind of gets a different type of heaviness. Right. But you do need to involve them just to make sure that you've got all your stuff covered. Yeah, and I, I think the worst thing that we could do as an HR function is assume that it'll just go away.
Yes. Right? Yeah. So the do nothing, do no harm doesn't really ma- Yeah ... make sense in this type of a situation- Yeah ... because again, everything that the manager does is as a fiduciary of the business and someone that's in position of power to make different decisions. And because of the exposure of that, you have to also check the boxes with your legal assessment as to where this could go because potentially, again, I didn't get promoted.
You know, I'm not saying that the person is this, but let's just extend the scenario a [00:18:00] little bit. I didn't get promoted because you knew I was gay. Now I'm gonna sue you because you have an unqualified individual who- Yeah ... was on the team, but because you knew this piece about me, you didn't want me out being the face of the organization because I'm gay, and boom, now there's- Yeah
a lawsuit. Or, you know, a- and you can interchange gay with any- Yeah ... protected class, protected issue, and it still rings true, right? You didn't promote- Yeah ... me 'cause I'm female, you didn't promote me because I'm a minority, you didn't promote me because I'm left-handed. Like, whatever scenario- Yeah ... you wanna interchange there, it makes sense.
And so protecting the company isn't about just taking it out of my hands, right? 'Cause at the end of the day, legal is gonna say, "Here's your decision, D'Mar." Right. "You're the vice president of people, so you figure out what to do with it, but here's your legal options." Mm-hmm. "Or here's the exposure rate," and then you still have to make a decision.
So I'm still gonna have to get with my team, [00:19:00] understand both sides of it, have a conversation with both, and figure out the appropriate path forward. But you bring that in so that you can make sure that you're checking all the boxes. Yeah. That you're not missing something because you think, "Oh, this is a innocent-" issue, he'll get over it, she'll get over it, we'll move on.
That may not always be the case, and so you really have to, have to play this one, I won't say by the book because 95% of HR is gray in my opinion. True. I agree. Um, very few things is black and white. Yeah. No, I agree, and I think that's kind of where your legal team can be a really good partner is just sort of say- Oh, absolutely
"Is there anything that I'm missing? You know, what are my options? What are the, you know, what are the-the-the whisks..." The whisks. Yeah. The risks that I have to weigh either way. All right. Whisk is grand too. Yeah, we could whisk it away. I don't know. Yeah. But I mean, it is true 'cause, you know, you're-you're kind of, you have to, you have to sort of balance the whole, you have to kind of balance the whole thing and start to make some kinds of decisions.
That's right. So let's say, you know, we talk to [00:20:00] the employee, and he's still feeling, uncomfortable. He still feels outed, rightfully so. Like, just- Yeah ... you know, not feeling great about this particular manager who he reports to. You talk to the manager, the manager's like, "I was just trying, like, I didn't even realize that I was doing anything wrong."
Right. That's usually where, where these conversations go is like, "I didn't realize I was doing anything wrong. I was just trying to help," or, "I was just trying to show up," whatever that might be. So how do you, what guidance do you give each of these employees? Do you give them guidance at this point, or do you, how do you help them come back together- Yeah
if you can, well, I think it, it really is important to understand the magnitude of did you tell anyone? Like what, what does that path look like, right? Because if it's just this manager and the employee, while they're in group settings or whatever is feeling like it's targeted, but there's no confirmation in the room that he or she are the ones being targeted, then I think [00:21:00] you have a good chance of helping it to go away.
It's gonna take a few conversations. It won't be resolved overnight, but I think that's where patience comes in and not making a rash decision. So for the manager, understanding the motive and the intent is important. "What did you hope to accomplish? Give me your thoughts on this. Like, help me to understand your point of view as to why you were, you know, making those recommendations."
And then for the employee, understanding, "Hey, I, I realize this is a, a very uncomfortable situation. I wanna help navigate getting through this. My understanding from the manager is that they did not have any ill intent. Realize your, your feelings are very valid. They haven't told anyone-" Their assumption, because it hasn't been confirmed even still yet, all of this is conjecture, uh, they haven't confirmed, they just felt like trying to help [00:22:00] make this a more inclusive environment, try to take some of the sting out of it, but not force it.
I can't force you to forgive someone. I can't force you to, uh, believe that someone doesn't have ulterior motives. I can only try to help understand the impact and the result of the impact based off the two people that's involved. Then I think you have to also say, "Look, we are committed to you as a person irrespective of your orientation, your sexuality, your color, your gender, your whatever.
That's not important to us. What's important is that you espouse the beliefs and values of this company, and that's what we want to uphold, and we will invest in you as an individual for your development, for your career." And because this individual has knowledge that is assumed to be correct, 'cause again, it's not confirmed, assumed to be correct, they're in no way in position to hold that against you, [00:23:00] so it can help take some of the fear out of, "Well, I won't get promoted.
I won't be able to do that." And why don't we have follow-up conversations to help navigate this? Is there someone that you're more comfortable talking to, right? Is there any mentoring programs that we can put the manager in, uh, to help them understand, uh, LGBTQIA+, uh, sensitivities? Yeah. Um, because we need to have a focal point on getting both people beyond the conversation- Yeah
and both people can learn from each other as well as learn from other groups. Yeah. And so that's how I would try to, to fashion it if that was the situation in which I was put in, uh, to support both my people. 'Cause to me, both of them are important. Both of them have value, and I think we need to reaffirm that by putting our arms around both Yeah.
Figuratively I agree Not touching her. That's important. Yes, figuratively. Our resources arms. Right. Our let's get you some help arms, yeah. Right. I just thought I need to clarify that [00:24:00] for the group. Hey, it never hurts to clarify, just to be sure. Sure. No, 'cause it's true. It's like, you know, you wanna kind of...
you wanna help both get through this moment. Yes. And you want to, you know, do what you can to make sure that it's a moment, and that it's not a full story, right? That's right. And that it's not something that continues, and that, I think it's, it's important to, like you said, acknowledge that this is gonna take some time for, this, you know, for the, for both of you to feel trust with each other again.
Yeah. One more so than the other, right? I also think, I know this is a fabricated scenario, but I like to shout out HR when I can. I love that in this fake scenario, that this employee felt safe coming to HR and- Right ... saying, "I have a problem with this." Because it's something that we see in so many organizations where people will experience microaggressions, or they'll experience, you know, moments that just don't sit right with them.
Yeah. And it can feel like, "Oh, it was just a small thing. Like, it probably wasn't that big a deal. I'm just not gonna say anything now." Mm-hmm. And people usually raise their hands after three, four, or [00:25:00] five incidents, right? Right. 'Cause when they start to see a pattern. But this story, it, it seems like, yes, they were, mentioning Pride Month a little bit more, like there were a couple things, and so this is ano- I guess it is one of those examples where it happens a few times first.
But you still now can get that first data point, and that's the thing that can be so hard about HR. Yeah. Whatever data you have, whatever engagement survey you- information you have, or culture information you have, it's only the information that people have volunteered in the time that you collected it.
Yeah. And there's- All the time ... always more stuff going on that you probably don't know about. That, that there, that there is and yes, I, I can guarantee there's more stuff that you, than you want to know about. Yeah ... so sometimes it's thank you for not telling me that, I know ... but- I always say my mantra in HR was like, "I don't wanna know if I, if I don't have to."
Right. "Do I really have to know this?" Like, involve me on only the stuff I need to know, and keep the rest to yourself. Yeah. But I think, you know, what you're talking to or what you're speaking to, in my opinion, uh, is, is, you know, kind of the reputation that HR has [00:26:00] had in the past. Yeah. It has been one-sided, right?
Yeah. You're for the business. You're not for the employees. And you know what? We've done a huge effort to reset that narrative. You know, we, we have renamed ourselves in some instances People and Culture. Mm-hmm. Uh, People Operations, you know, uh, People Experience, right? People Shared Services. We've tried to take that connotation that was you're just strictly for the business and or you take the manager's viewpoint all the time, and pull it back to the center where there's a balanced approach.
You know what? The employee is not always right. But guess what? Neither is the manager. Yeah. Or the manager is not always wrong. Guess what? The employee's not al- always wrong either. You truly have to be that, that liaison Yeah ... between the functions to come up with what is right, both from a business perspective but from also an employee [00:27:00] perspective.
That's true. And, And I pride myself in, in the organizations that I've led on feeling people first, right? And not... I'm not ashamed to say it. I'm people first. I will be people first. Right. That is my DNA. But it doesn't mean that I'm people only. Yeah. Because I understand the business, and I understand the value that the business has because of the strength of the people.
And if we're able to bridge that ideological divide where- Yeah ... you're only for them or you're only for them, no, I want to bring you both to the table. Yeah. There's room for all of us, right? And so come to the table and have a voice. I don't need you just sitting there looking around. I need you to actually speaking your mind, understanding your opinions, and how do I best serve you is by listening to your voices to make sure that you're represented in the rooms that I'm in because I represent the whole of the people.
And so- Yeah ... the fact that you gave a shout-out to HR for this scenario is because they have [00:28:00] done something right- ... within that business to be trusted by the employee to bring that. Otherwise- Yeah ... people will suffer in silence. They would keep their voices muted- Yep ... and they would quietly quit because they, "Oh, I gotta resign.
Someone knows about my situation that I didn't want them to know," or, "I'm not gonna have a promotion opportunity because this person's gonna hold it over my head." Yeah. No one wants to feel extorted. No one wants to feel like they have no place to go. They want to be listened to. Yeah. And I think that's a great, great call-out for this scenario for that.
Yeah. Yeah. So well said. And I... That's kind of, I think, the point of why it's so important to make sure that you are getting feedback from employees and that, the... You know, we talk about tools all the time. Mm-hmm. I mean, I talk about tools all the time. We are — AllVoices is a platform, so we talk about this stuff all the time.
But, like One of the other things that I've always said too is that you have to build habits before you introduce tools. Right. Because the tool is supposed to support what the habit is or the- Yeah ... or the behavior. Love that. And so [00:29:00] if you're as a culture building psychological safety or if that's-- 'cause that's kind of the root of where a lot of this is, is building that- Yeah
trust and that psychological safety, then you can have a tool that helps you to prove that, to validate that, to continue that. But if you don't have the psychological safety, the input that goes into that tool is only gonna be as good as what people feel safe sharing. Absolutely. You know- Yeah, I love that
and I love that you call that listening to people, 'cause that's the core of, of it all. It's like your employees usually know what's going on better than anybody else does. You gotta listen to them. They, they do, and I, you know, I look at my organizations that, that I've led, and it-it's had varying degrees, not because of lack of trying, but because you haven't had the buy-in from leadership to, to be able to make the time available for people to be able to, to speak with you.
Yeah. I am so happy that RS, that we have our four core values, One Team, Deliver Brilliantly, Do the Right Thing, Make Every Day Better, and that that is permeated throughout the whole organization. Everyone understands what's [00:30:00] important. And as we demonstrate those values, it helps to reinstill and reignite the trust that the employees have in our functions, not just- Mm-hmm
the HR function or people function. Uh, I tell everybody, uh, you know, they'll say, "Oh, you have HR." I say, "Who's, who-- Where is HR? I don't have HR. I have people." Yeah. But HR doesn't exist here. We are the people function. And aptly so because we are about you. I would-- You don't need a me if there are no people.
Yeah. And, and I think sometimes managers and leaders forget that their role, while it is important to, to deliver for the bottom line, we have to also deliver for our people's bottom line- Yeah ... which is making sure that we give them the right tools to be successful, that we, uh, provide an opportunity for them to fail fast, learn from their failures, and grow.
And I think that's where some of that distrust comes is if you're holding people accountable for failure, and all you talk about is failure and not the success or [00:31:00] celebrate what's happening good or take two minutes for the fail, you know, for the good stuff and an hour for the bad stuff, we inadvertently create the wrong messaging.
Yeah. That you don't have the ability to create, you don't have the ability to step outside of the guidelines. You have to be in this narrow box, but people are fallible. We're not perfect. Yeah ... we make mistakes all the time. All of us have- Yeah ... put our foot in at one time or another- Oh, so many times.
and need- Yeah, and needed someone to pull us back from the brink, right? Yeah. And, and I think this is where that manager is at. They are redeemable is what I would say. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, both parties are redeemable. And our job is to help facilitate that discussion to bring them back together as a team so that we can move on.
Yeah. At the end of the day, they'll both make individual choices about whether they can stay or not. I get it. Yeah. That, but they should not leave as angry enemies. They should be able to understand, okay, it was a innocent [00:32:00] mistake. Yeah. Intentions were not bad, but I wanna learn from this. Yeah. And I wanna make sure that I don't do something like this in the future with someone else, so how can you help me to grow?
Yeah. Yeah. That is perfectly put. I love that. I think this wa- this was a really good scenario for, for, I think for, we're recording this on a Friday. I know if you're li- you know, people listen to this on different days, but I think this was a really good scenario for a Friday 'cause, like, D'Mar, the way that you're phrasing this and the way that you're, the energy you're bringing to this, like, I feel the very people-first energy, and it's just- Yeah
like, it's really, really great to hear when you see, you know, all of these posts on LinkedIn about, you know, companies downsizing and implementing AI everywhere and- Yeah ... it's just, it's always, like, really, really refreshing just to kind of come back to basics and just remember, like, hey, we're all humans.
Humans are still required to do work, and so we have- Right ... to make sure that, you know, we're also nurturing the human side of things because- That's right ... that is also good for the business. They go [00:33:00] hand in hand. You know, ab- absolutely, and, you know, you touched on AI, and I know it's not the scenario, but just a, a few seconds on that.
We can't talk- Like- We can't not talk about AI in this world- ... no matter what. It's ... But A- but AI is not ... we're not doing robotics, right? Yeah. And I think people are not robots. We, we are free-thinking individuals, built, uh, in a way that no other creature on Earth has ever been built. Uh, we have the ability to think critically, which most other animals, the animal instinct is not thinking critically.
It is divide and conquer, divide and conquer. Yeah. It's one mind. Yeah. Survival, right? We have the ability to think freely, and I think from an AI perspective, AI or as our CIO loves to, to state, it's intelligent automation- mm-hmm ... to enable more effective decision-making I think that's where the risk of, oh, you- you're- you're implementing AI [00:34:00] to, to cut or slash jobs.
Well, guess who has to program the AI- Right ... to think like the business? It's people. Yep. Guess who has to make sure that the, uh, AI bot isn't hallucinating? It's us. It's a person. Yep. And it's the subject matter expert that did it. And so to think that AI is gonna just come in and then everybody's out of a job, well then, who would be there?
Yeah. Robots, right? Yeah. Because that's the only other choice there would be if the person's not there. So human intelligence is really what this whole s- whole thing should be. Yeah. Get rid of AI. Think about how you can help intelligent automation to be able to help enable people to be more effective and efficient at their jobs, because guess what?
I have a lot of administrative tasks that I would love to give to AI. Me too. Let me think at this level while all the automation occurs down here that can spit out those reports that you need by 5:00 or- Yep ... uh, you know, process my expense reports, which [00:35:00] I hate doing. Oh, yeah, they're the worst. You know, make those- They're the worst
things simple, right? Yep. To simplify it. So, uh, I love that. But yes, AI is here. It's gonna be here. Uh, embrace it, because it's coming w- to a location near you. Uh, you're already using it on your cell phones. You're already using it in other s- parts of your life. The workplace should be no different. But what we can't replace is your ability to think critically about the information that has been shared back to you, 'cause you still gotta validate that it's legit.
You still gotta make sure that every scenario that was important for whatever issue that you're addressing is solved, and then it has to make sense for the business. And so, I, I don't fear AI. I will embrace it, but I also need people to not fear it. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You know, I was gonna ask you for our last question, 'cause we're actually overtime, believe it or not- Oh
'cause I feel like we could talk, I could talk to you for a long time. Um, there's so many things we could kind of get into, which I love. Um, but, you know, you h- you already answered my last question, which was going to-- Well, [00:36:00] two of them, actually. It was, you know, you were giving people really great advice, 'cause I always like to ask, you know- Yeah
what's some advice you'd give, you know, HR folks right now, and what's, what's an assumption about HR that you think should be debunked? So before we go- Yes ... do you have one you'd like to share? Um, man, I know we've had, like, bad history in the past where HR has felt like it's been going downhill.
Mm. But the vast majority of HR folks are people just like you. They don't have all the answers, believe it or not, right? Yeah. And a lot of times it takes us having to review, discuss, trying to get back to you on things that take some research, because we don't have the ability just to write a new pay plan and give it to you.
There's an approval process that happens. We can't just promote you in position because you've been there 10 years. Mm-hmm. There is a process that occurs. So I think the myth that I would, would, would share or try to debunk is that [00:37:00] we have all the answers and we're the, the, uh, impediment between your success and the business, because that's just not true.
Yeah. We have the ability to help navigate the process with you and for you and can advocate on your behalf, but we are not the final say when it comes to some of these things that, that you would like to have done. Yeah. And so partner with your HR business partner, your people partner. Make sure that your representative understands what's in it for you, and it's not a hands-off, don't touch, push back, don't come talk to us.
Most H- you know, people teams, HR teams have open door policies. Mm-hmm. Just get to know them, right? Yeah. So they can advocate successfully on your behalf as opposed to you having these feelings that we're standing in the way for your, of your success, because that's not the case. Yes. That's just not true.
I love that. I love that. That's so good. And thank you, D'Mar, [00:38:00] for all of your insight, for all your perspective, for talking through this with me. I think this was really, really... This was a fun scenario to talk through too, 'cause like- I'd love to do the other two if you want- Yeah ... at some point in the future.
Just let me know. Oh, yeah. We can always keep going and do more another time too. Yeah. 'Cause, like, there's the- I love it ... you know, I think you've got a, like, a lot of really good wisdom to share and- Yeah ... I just appreciate you being here. And thank you everybody for listening to this, and I hope everybody has a great rest of your day.
Bye. Bye-bye. ~Okay, wait, this has happened before. My stop button's not working the same and my record button wasn't working. But we'll cut the rest of this out. I'm sorry. You're fine. I had a feeling, I was like, "Huh, I don't know what's going on." I think I... I don't know, it might be, like, a Chrome update I have to do, but- Mm~
~either way, it'll upload, it'll still upload all of our episode parts, so if- Yeah ... this part gets cut off, like, that's, you know, that's fine. We're just chatting. But thank you. I thought that was so good. Of course. It was fun. It felt very natural. Like- Yeah ... I loved the back and forth. Yeah, I do so too. Yeah. So I like to make 'em conversational 'cause it's just like sometimes when it's just, when it feels too robotic- Yeah~
~it's just like, it's hard, and I'm, I like one-on-one type stuff too. Yeah. So, yeah. And you know, I, I, I love that too because it's, it, it is a conversation. I know when I'm connecting with an interviewee, when it feels like it's a conversation that we could talk all day as opposed to yes/no answers. Yeah.~
~That to me is choppy, and it's hard to connect with the other person. Mm-hmm. I'm a big energy guy, so- Me too ... um, I love- Oh, energy person ... feeling that flow back and forth. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, I'm with you. Yeah. And I think it's like it's something that we're really... It's something that it's funny. It's always kind of drawn me to the AllVoices team 'cause, so even before I joined, I've known this team for a couple years now.~
~Oh, wow. And so when I left my last company and I announced that I was leaving, immediately the team here reached out and they're just like, "Wait, wait, wait. We should talk. We should talk." I love that. Because we've just kind of been, you know, in those circles and- Yep ... it's so funny. I, you know, I always say I'm still in my honeymoon phase, like learning, you know, I'm almost like five, six months in now, and I'm still like- Yeah~
~everyone's so great, everything's so nice, the problems are really cool. I love that. Yeah. And, um- Yeah. And every day is different I'll bet, you know? Yeah. So it just feels like it's a unique experience every time. Even here, I've been here almost two years at this company, uh, and love it, and no two days are the same.~
~Yeah. The, the issues that come up are fun for the most part and, and gives an opportunity to be creative, and I love that. Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of the fun part of it. And I think there's like, you know, I'd love to see if you're, if you're game for it, I'd love to show you the platform or have someone on the team kind of show you the platform.~
~Yeah. 'Cause I'm still learning it myself too, 'cause I'm still new. Oh, nice. Um, and so, you know, you can sort of see there's different ways that we're kinda thinking about solving the employee relations case- Yeah ... management problem because there's, you know, we're layering in AI, but we're the ones that we're the only AI native platform, and- Uh-huh~
~it's the thing that I think has kind of been really cool and that our customers have really been enjoying. Because our AI was specifically built for employee relations. Oh, I love that. But our platform is specifically he- like designed to keep that information safe. I've been on a tangent lately where I'm like, if you're doing employee relations in Claude and ChatGPT, I, I don't know what to tell you.~
~Right. I love that. Yes, I would love to- Or like a spreadsheet. I had to do it at a spreadsheet back in the day. I'm like, but now you can have a secure system that has all- Right ... security teams dedicated to it where you can get the information you need. If, goodness forbid, you have to go to court with anything, like you can easily pull everything from one spot.~
~Yeah. Um, but if you'd like, we could set something up now, and we could look at calendars, like totally up to you. Yeah. Um, I, I do have a meeting I need to get to. Um- I'm so sorry ... but, uh, how far out are you thinking? Um, we could look at whatever works for you. To start, I've got May 13th is the earliest that I've got, either 12:00 PM or 1:00 PM Eastern.~
~Okay, let me look. Just to start somewhere.~
~I had closed down my Outlook so I wouldn't get emails- Sorry. ... all the time. You're fine. Let's see.~
~And you said May 13th, you think? Yeah, so Wednesday, this coming Wednesday. It'll be mid-May before we even know it. It's already here. Uh, are you Central or Eastern Time? Uh, Eastern Time. So either- Yeah ... 12:00 or 1:00 Eastern or 11:00 or 12:00 Central. If you do 1:00 Eastern, that'll be 12 o'clock my time on the 13th- Yes~
~and I have, I have availability then Excellent. I'll put you on the calendar. So I'll send you, um, I'll send you an invite to, you know, to your email here. Um, it's gonna say meeting with Chelsea Wood. I'll be on it too. Okay. And, you know, we'll send along any other information about, you know, podcast publishing and everything.~
~I know you have to jump, so I won't bore you with all the details now. But, um, we'll get everything in order, and we'll come out soon. Fantastic. Now, did it record? Did you get everything you needed? Yes. We're good. We're good. Okay. We're good to leave. Okay. Excellent. All right. Thank you, Tamar. Have a good weekend.~
~You too. Bye. Bye-bye.~
~I don't know what's going on, so hopefully you can cut this out~