Production Designer and Art Director Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
Production Designer and Art Director Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th DimensionProduction Designer and Art Director Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
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Production Designer and Art Director Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
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Production Designer and Art Director Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
Talking About The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension with our guest Kevin Conran
In this captivating episode of Movies We Like, hosts Andy Nelson and Pete Wright are joined by the immensely talented production designer and art director Kevin Conran. Together, they delve into the wild world of W.D. Richter's sci-fi adventure comedy, The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. Kevin shares fascinating insights from his illustrious career, including his groundbreaking work on Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, which revolutionized digital filmmaking.
Throughout the episode, Kevin regales the hosts with behind-the-scenes stories that showcase the creativity and innovation that went into bringing Sky Captain to life. From the film's distinctive visual style to the challenges of working with a tight budget and schedule, Kevin offers a unique perspective on the art of filmmaking. He also discusses the importance of trust and collaboration in the industry, emphasizing how a dedicated and passionate team can overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles.
Turning their attention to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, everyone’s infectious enthusiasm is evident as they explore the film's quirky characters, memorable quotes, and the sheer fun it embodies. They marvel at the movie's ability to capture the imagination of viewers, likening it to the unrestrained creativity of a child's playtime.
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension is a film that deserves to be celebrated for its audacity, creativity, and the sheer joy it brings to audiences. With its unique blend of science fiction, comedy, and adventure, it's a movie that continues to captivate viewers decades after its release. Kevin Conran's insights only serve to deepen our appreciation for this beloved cult classic. It's clear that Andy, Pete, and Kevin had an absolute blast discussing this film, making for an entertaining and informative listen for any fan of Movies We Like.
Welcome to Movies We Like • Production Designer Kevin Conran on The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension
About Kevin
About Buckaroo Banzai
Talking About The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension with our guest Kevin Conran
In this captivating episode of Movies We Like, hosts Andy Nelson and Pete Wright are joined by the immensely talented production designer and art director Kevin Conran. Together, they delve into the wild world of W.D. Richter's sci-fi adventure comedy, The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. Kevin shares fascinating insights from his illustrious career, including his groundbreaking work on Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, which revolutionized digital filmmaking.
Throughout the episode, Kevin regales the hosts with behind-the-scenes stories that showcase the creativity and innovation that went into bringing Sky Captain to life. From the film's distinctive visual style to the challenges of working with a tight budget and schedule, Kevin offers a unique perspective on the art of filmmaking. He also discusses the importance of trust and collaboration in the industry, emphasizing how a dedicated and passionate team can overcome seemingly insurmountable obstacles.
Turning their attention to The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, everyone’s infectious enthusiasm is evident as they explore the film's quirky characters, memorable quotes, and the sheer fun it embodies. They marvel at the movie's ability to capture the imagination of viewers, likening it to the unrestrained creativity of a child's playtime.
The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension is a film that deserves to be celebrated for its audacity, creativity, and the sheer joy it brings to audiences. With its unique blend of science fiction, comedy, and adventure, it's a movie that continues to captivate viewers decades after its release. Kevin Conran's insights only serve to deepen our appreciation for this beloved cult classic. It's clear that Andy, Pete, and Kevin had an absolute blast discussing this film, making for an entertaining and informative listen for any fan of Movies We Like.
Welcome to Movies We Like. Each episode, Andy Nelson and Pete Wright invite a film industry veteran to discuss one of their favorite films. What makes a movie inspirational to a cinematographer or a costume designer? Listen in to hear how these pros watch their favorite films. Part of The Next Reel family of film podcasts.
Andy Nelson:
Welcome to Movies We Like, part of the True Story FM Entertainment Podcast Network. I'm Andy Nelson, and that over there is Pete Wright. It sure is, Andy. Confirmed. On today's episode, we have invited production designer, art director, Kevin.
Andy Nelson:
I'd prefer Pistol Pete Maravich, Conron, to talk about W. D. Richter's The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension, a movie he likes. Kevin, hello.
Kevin Conran:
How are you, fellas?
Andy Nelson:
Oh, thrilled to be talking with you about this movie and, just to be chatting with you about you and your career.
Kevin Conran:
Well, I'm happy to be here. I love this movie and, you know, I'm eager to get into it with you guys.
Andy Nelson:
Oh, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be great. Before we do, let's, talk a little bit about your career and kind of, your place in in cinema, what you're doing. You work as a production designer, art director. A lot of this is kind of started with a project that you and her brother, Carrie made called sky captain in the world of tomorrow, which is a fascinating, fascinating film.
Andy Nelson:
I just, revisited it and had a great time and just, again, was taken by the look of it. And I think that's why this film stands out so much because it was kind of this film that revolutionized what people were doing with digital filmmaking. Let's just start there and talk about, like, what you were doing in kind of film or trying to get into film that led to you and your brother figuring out, Hey, let's do this.
Kevin Conran:
You know, it's it's I tell you, it's funny that you just watched it because so did I for the first time in 15 years, probably. I just got back from New York. It was screened at the, Museum of New York City and it was a great event and, you know, we got to talk about some of the design influences how New York impacted the look of that film and, it was really fun, you know? It was a it was really cool of that. But, yeah, as far as Cary and I, how that whole thing got started, we'd always been these weird arty little dudes.
Kevin Conran:
You know, I went to art school to be an illustrator. Cary went to film school. You know, after I graduated, I moved to California, and he still had a couple years of school left. I don't know. We just, you know, we always liked the same things.
Kevin Conran:
We we grew up watching those old, Flash Gordon serials on an independent TV station out of Detroit when we were little kids, and we loved comic books. And I you know, my brother was always, always always a big idea guy. And he wanted to make a film, but, you know, nobody was gonna give us money to make a real movie. So, how can we do that? And I remember one night, you know, just getting ready to have some dinner, and he calls down to my house and says, hey, I got an idea I need to talk to you about.
Kevin Conran:
Can I said, yeah, come out and have dinner with us? And, so he came over and said, my wife and I, and he sort of laid out the basic construction of this film. Like, hey, I think we can do something, but I can't do without you because I'm not an illustrator. And at that point, it was largely gonna be 2 d backgrounds, and just put the actors in front. So we started on that path, and, things evolved from there, but that was sort of the genesis of it.
Kevin Conran:
And actually, now that I think about it, some years before that, I I don't even know, maybe 3, 4 years prior, we actually went in to Hanna Barbera when they were still around and pitched a version of really what became Sky Captain. It was still your, you know, flying ace and his trusty dog sidekick and Polly Perkins. And, you know, we went in and pitched it to him, and they, and said thanks for stopping by, boys. There's the door. And, you know, that's that's about it.
Kevin Conran:
And I suppose we could have quit then, but, and we probably did for a little while. But, you know, at some point we picked back up, and honestly, we just sort of never stopped. We worked constantly. I I teach at ArtCenter now out here in Pasadena, and great school, wonderfully talented kids, and they all asked the same question. How'd you guys do it?
Kevin Conran:
How do you how do you do that? How do you get started? I said, you work your you worked really hard, you know? And, that's what we did. We worked 7 days a week and had a very understanding wife, and, you know, if we weren't actively working on it, we were thinking about it and talking about it.
Kevin Conran:
And, that's that's just how it went.
Pete Wright:
Thinking back to that dinner or maybe, I guess, 3 to 4 years prior, at Hanna Barbera, how early did you feel like you locked in on what the film was going to ultimately look like? Because I I saw the movie, and I I remember being I mean, I've seen the movie many times. I remember being actively shaken by the look of the film because it was like nothing else I had seen before. And it felt like one of those movies where you guys are just willing to, you know, swing, big, big swing, and kinda risk it all on a visual aesthetic that, you know, was, I think, ultimately divisive for a lot of people.
Kevin Conran:
Absolutely.
Pete Wright:
How early did you figure that out?
Kevin Conran:
Very, very early. I not not with the Hanna Barbera iteration. To be honest, I'm not even sure I understood why we were even walking in the place at that point. I, you know, I just didn't know what we were doing. But once we really started in earnest, you know, like I said, we, you know, we grew up sleeping in the same bedroom and reading the same comics and just mind melding, you know, our entire childhood.
Kevin Conran:
So when it came time to start putting things together, while Carey doesn't paint or draw, he he could communicate. You know, we referenced the same stuff, and I He
Pete Wright:
can barely read.
Kevin Conran:
Well, you know, he likes pictures better than words, but that's his hang up, you know? So, yeah, when we started to actually just talk about the things that we wanted us to feel like, we were immediately on the same page, you know? And this is gonna sound ridiculous, and maybe you have to have this amount of delusion to, you know, pursue something like that. Right? But I remember at the time I was working as a freelance illustrator.
Kevin Conran:
So I was doing you know, I was painting beer ads for Miller beer during the day, and little insert illustrations for Sport Magazine, and stuff like that, you know, and then in between I'm working on Sky Captain. But it was taking over my work day, and it was taking over my mind and everything. I remember one day sitting there, and, I called him up because I had this idea. I was drawing the flying fortress, you know, the big aircraft carrier thing, and and at this point, we weren't talking about this stuff, but I had this idea. I said, Oh, man.
Kevin Conran:
We should do an underwater dogfight. The words just kind of popped into my head. You know, I didn't know what it meant, but who said an underwater dogfight? So I called him up, and, you know, in in my brother's way, he was, you know, less than enthusiastic. Right?
Kevin Conran:
So I thought, man, this is a really good idea, dude. But what I, you know, what I should have known better because the way Kerry functions is you He sticks something in his head, and he kinda has to percolate with it for a minute. And that's what he did. He went away, and he came back with all that he had extrapolated on the idea, and it became a thing. And suddenly we had underwater planes, you know?
Kevin Conran:
And, that was really cool, but as
Andy Nelson:
it was Yeah,
Kevin Conran:
it was it was super fun. I mean, that was the main thing, and not not to jump ahead to buckaroo, but I think that's what I love about that movie so much is it's so fun. And we were having fun, you know? And honestly, this is the well, I always say naivete got us a long way because we didn't know what we didn't know. But, I'm sitting there drawing that very thing, my first planes underwater shooting at each other and everything, and I could see the whole movie so clearly in my head.
Kevin Conran:
I knew it was gonna be a movie, which is ridiculous on the face of it. You know? No it never happens what happened to us. But I why wouldn't it? This is good.
Kevin Conran:
It's fun. It's cool. Who won't like this? You know? So I just kept going.
Kevin Conran:
And, you know, yeah, that's so we we were sort of dialed in right from the beginning. I mean, honestly, the sort of noir quality that it had was, baked into our method because of our limitations, you know, which I think is a very important and often under discussed aspect of design. Right? You always have limitations of some sort or another, you know, even with all these amazing tools that can do everything now. You still have limitations, be they budgetary or schedule or something.
Andy Nelson:
And There's always something. Right? Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Every time. So, you know, with us, we we knew what we couldn't do. We weren't animators. We weren't modelers. We had very real gaps in the resume, you know?
Kevin Conran:
So we realized that if we designed the thing in such a way we could hide some of those shortcomings in shadows and light. And even now in my classes, I'm always talking to my students about thinking of light and shadow as design elements, you know, graphic design elements, and you can use them to your benefit beyond what the normal approach would be. Right? That's that's where we began. And at that point, I was just I was drawing a lot of the backgrounds, and we would splice them together, you know, literally in the black so you couldn't see and then cherry crank up the levels and the render and, you know, it was a it was a shot.
Pete Wright:
Okay. I'm I'm gonna ask a question that's super pedestrian, but it's just me as a fan. Since you just watched it, presumably on a large screen, as you're watching it, what is the thing that you are most proud that I didn't notice as an audience member? What's the thing you're most proud of getting away with?
Kevin Conran:
Wow. That's a good question. I'm most proud of getting away with. Jeez. I might have to think about that one for a second.
Pete Wright:
You can interrupt the conversation at any point if it hits you. Just interrupt. If we're talking, just stop and say, I got it. We're we'll come back to the I am fascinated by this movie. And I watch it, and I think, I'm sure they got away with a million things because it feels like the movie that I made in my head when I was 8 years old playing with action figures.
Pete Wright:
And it's a real movie, and it's extraordinary. And I know what I got away with because of imagination that you couldn't get away with, but I wanna know how you did it. So that's a standing question.
Kevin Conran:
Okay. I'll I'll give that one some thought. I, I can tell you a little story that, you know, probably isn't appropriate to tell, but I'm gonna rat these guys out anyway. You know? You you referenced 8 year olds, and we sort of all were.
Kevin Conran:
You know? It was a it was a we had more or less a 100 people working under one roof, which was, you know, unheard of for the time because we had everything in house. So I was directly working with CG artists and stuff, modelers, texture painters, all that kind of thing. And it was awesome and hadn't really been done in that way before, so there really wasn't anybody to tell me no. You know, I just sort of ran rough shot over the thing.
Kevin Conran:
But, you know, we started to hire modelers and really talented great guys. And, their leader is a guy named Zach Petrop. Zach's been, he's a wonderful, talented guy. He's been at Disney now forever and, you know, one of their leads in that in that world. And, anyway, Zach's perpetually 10 years old.
Kevin Conran:
Never mind the fact that he's probably 50 now with kids in college, but he's he's 10. So, you know, in my designs, a lot of them were heavily driven by, you know, rivets and that kind of thing. Right? And all that and all that metal of those ships and those robots. I didn't realize that those rivets because you never get that close to them.
Kevin Conran:
Right? You just see a little spot if you see anything at all. But they're not really bolts and rivets. They're they're zillions upon zillions of tiny male appendages in place of a yeah. I had no idea, but I was working with a bunch of 10 year old modelers, so that's what you get.
Kevin Conran:
Oh
Pete Wright:
my god. That's amazing.
Kevin Conran:
That is so Now that I think that's gonna have to qualify as my answer. Okay?
Pete Wright:
I
Andy Nelson:
think that was
Pete Wright:
That is a 100% your answer. Okay. Sure. Jesus, Kevin. That's incredible.
Kevin Conran:
I'm not sure. I'm sure I've never told that story before. I don't think anyone is. And, you know, Zach, buddy, if you see this podcast, I love you.
Pete Wright:
Zach, we're coming for you next, man. That's right. You should. You should.
Kevin Conran:
He's awesome. He's the best. And, you know, absolute film nut yeah. You should. He's great.
Kevin Conran:
And he will he will vouch for my story. Somehow, he'll blame it on me as if it was part of my design. I assure you it was not. Yeah. That was an audible call by their modeling supervisor.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
So what about the I
Pete Wright:
kinda don't know how
Andy Nelson:
to recover. It's it's those little sorts of stories. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
We've got a million of them.
Andy Nelson:
Oh, I'm sure. I mean, yeah. Because again, you guys were doing something that nobody had really done before. And so it was all just everything was probably flying by the seat of your pants. And even I would assume in And the crop.
Andy Nelson:
Well right. But even I would assume, like, in working with the actors and, like, trying to get these these I mean, prominent Hollywood actors to figure out what they were doing and how to act in this sort of environment, which green screen, blue screen, that sort of work had been around for a while, so maybe it wasn't that different for them. But to have the entire film done that way, I'm sure there was something that was a little a little different for them in in the their approach.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. I I mean, I I think some adapted to it better than others because some had more of a theater background, and that's immediately what you had equated it with. Right? We shot on the George Lucas stage and, you know, they're the biggest sound stages in the world. So we took this enormous space and dropped curtains and divided up into effectively a staging area and 3 blue screen stages.
Kevin Conran:
And we we just ran it was just a constant circus, you know? We were moving from 1 to the next because we shot the whole movie in, I think, less than 24 days.
Pete Wright:
Jeez. Wow.
Kevin Conran:
You know, which is bonkers. Right? So we were we were constantly just racing. Yeah. And so Jude I think Jude coming on board, getting comfortable with it early, it really helped.
Kevin Conran:
They adapted pretty well pretty quick. You know, there's, there is one shot in the way that still drives me nuts though, and it's such a simple thing. And I probably shouldn't even point it out, but of course I'm going to because I always give away too much. There's a moment when Polly and Joe go into doctor Jennings' lab, and, they find this miniaturized well grown an elephant growing in this small glass bubble, this machine. And if you look at the shot, they come up to it slowly.
Kevin Conran:
It's a really nicely frame shot. It looks cool. The elephant's lit really cool from below, and it looks great.
Pete Wright:
It's got great textures. Like, yeah, that works.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Yeah. It looks I that's one of my favorite shots in the film, save for the fact that Gwenyth's not looking at the elephant. She's looking apparently at some stain on the table beside this miniature elephant. You know?
Kevin Conran:
It's not her fault. It's the idiots, you know, that put the thing together, largely my brother and myself.
Andy Nelson:
It's a little pile of elephant dung that is
Kevin Conran:
left behind. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it was fascinating to her. I don't know.
Kevin Conran:
But you'll see her eye line is not on the thing, and hopefully people were looking at the miniature elephant, not where Buena's eyes were, but it drives me nuts. I just seeing it in New York, I was like, oh, man.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Glad we do that. Don't look. Yeah.
Andy Nelson:
Well, it's such a fun film. I have a great time, and it's got one of the best last lines ever. Like, that is such a fantastic laugh line to end. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
That's that's all Carrie. That's that's that's my brother in a nutshell. That's
Andy Nelson:
yeah. Well, this is very funny. So you you took this and then you kind of used this to shift into quite a variety of work as production designer, a lot of visual development, a lot of work in, like, animated films. Coming out of Sky Captain, was it easy to transition? Because it was kind of a a new thing you all were doing.
Andy Nelson:
So was it hard to pitch yourself? Or how did you how did you figure out where you were gonna fit in with the industry?
Kevin Conran:
I mean, to to be quite honest, I was pretty lucky. Right? When the film wrapped, we, you know, Sherry Lansing immediately gave us John Carter, and we were put on that. And we worked on that for a little over a year. And we were gonna make that film.
Kevin Conran:
In fact, we were getting ready to get on a plane to go to Australia to, scout locations. We were gonna do it largely like Skycap, but we were gonna integrate more actual physical spaces into this. And so we're getting ready to go, and then there was a regime change, you know? And you know how that goes. It's like, all the movies that were on the slate.
Kevin Conran:
We weren't the only one, but they all got wiped, you know? And so suddenly we're we're not making John Carver. And, I wasn't really sure what to do next or what we were gonna do. I wasn't super worried about it at that point. I thought, well, the next movie will pop up, you know?
Kevin Conran:
And then DreamWorks called me. You know, I hadn't really thought about Sky Captain as an animated film per se because there were live actors in it, but everything else about it was the workflow of a of a CG Pixar movie or something. Right? And so they knew what I did, and they said we'd love you to come over here and do that with us. And, what they really wanted was they wanted to and, Andy, I know I wasn't gonna talk about this, but I don't care.
Kevin Conran:
I'm gonna talk about it anyway. What they really wanted to know was how we got a $150,000,000 worth of movie on the screen for what we did, which was about $14,000,000 So I went over and I told them I you know, I worked there for a while and we were developing projects. I was working on a couple of films. It was I was just sort of swimming around the place and, at a certain point they had me come in and sort of outline what we did differently and what maybe those changes could be implemented into their pipe, you know? So I told them a few things, and they were like, it's really smart.
Kevin Conran:
I I get it now. See how you did it? And, those are really good ideas. But we're a big boat. It's gonna take a while to turn it around.
Pete Wright:
And, you
Kevin Conran:
know, fair enough. And yeah. So I finished my time there, did a couple films. We we developed another project that we never finished that actually ultimately became Trolls, I believe, which has been a, you know, series of films for them at this point. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Right. Right. Yeah. And when we were gonna do it, it was, based on a property they owned, a Terry Pratchett novel called Truckers, and it was these little almost troll like characters. Right?
Kevin Conran:
We, of course, wanted to turn them into aliens, you know, like little space man, and we had a whole thing. And, Jeffrey Katzenberg really liked it, and we were working on it. And, you know, just the way these things go, you're you're when you're working away, you're talking to producers and then you're not, you know, and it'd be something else. I think what happened was they they got the rights to those troll dolls and then they went they rethought everything. Clearly worked out for them because they've made a bunch of those movies and Oh, yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Or at least a couple. So but that's how that happens. And then, yeah. And then I went off and did some other stuff and couple years later they called me back and they were getting started on TV and they're gonna do their 1st television series. And they said, Hey, I'll remember all those crazy things you were talking about doing with our features.
Kevin Conran:
How would you like to come back and do them for TV? And I said, sure. Because it I knew that it would be a more welcome playground for me because it was, you know, smaller budgets, shorter deadlines. You know? They had to move quick, and they had to make some adjustments.
Kevin Conran:
So that was a that was a fun time.
Pete Wright:
That that was, Dragons?
Kevin Conran:
Yeah.
Pete Wright:
Great property. I mean, what a that talk about another fantastic world to play in.
Kevin Conran:
No doubt. Yeah. No doubt. I was very fortunate. I worked, I worked with a guy named David Jones, and David is a VFX supervisor.
Kevin Conran:
He's got some, you know, real big credits of his own, and we hadn't met before, but he's a turns out he was a big Sky Captain fan. So he was looking forward to meeting me when I came in. I had no idea that because he's he's a big guy. David's probably 6 foot 5 and Oh, wow. 2 bills plus.
Kevin Conran:
You know? He's a large guy.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right.
Kevin Conran:
I'm not. And, okay, so this big crazy guy comes charging at me enthusiastically, but I wasn't sure it was enthusiasm. Why the hell this guy was trying to kill me?
Pete Wright:
And, anyway, we
Kevin Conran:
we became fast friends, and we we moved our office in together because our jobs are so closely aligned and then we, we bore a lot of the responsibility for getting the project on track because at the time they were way over budget. They were they had a 2 season commitment from Cartoon Network and were already spending season 2 money without anything being done in season 1. So
Andy Nelson:
Oh, jeez.
Kevin Conran:
We had to get per episode costs down from I think at the time, they were close to 1.3, and we need to get them down more like to 750, which, we did. But, you know, we did by implementing a lot of that Sky Captain stuff. And, Yeah. Right. Right.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. That's kinda how it works.
Andy Nelson:
It's interesting. It's like there are these times when the industry recognizes that a shift is needed, but you hear stories about how it's it's so difficult to make that shift. Right? Like and just now I'm thinking about the special effects world, like, when life of pie won the Oscar for best visual effects, right after the company had declared bankruptcy. You know?
Andy Nelson:
But then this past year, Godzilla minus 1 ends up winning special effects going to show if you find the right way to work everything, you can do it in a much more cost efficient and, time efficient way and still deliver incredible quality.
Kevin Conran:
There's no question. I I honestly you know, at this point, I don't have trouble talking about most any of this stuff anymore, but, I really don't feel like a lot of this stuff's very complicated. I think it kinda comes down I don't. I think it comes down to trust, and trust is hard to come by in Hollywood, you know, when you start spending other people's money. What it really requires we like I said, even in the making of that film, when we were in production for 2 plus years, it was hands on.
Kevin Conran:
You know, those shots were handcrafted. We lorded over all of them. We worked through a very tight connected group, and our eyes are eyes on the ball. And I and I can honestly tell you, most people don't work that hard. You know?
Kevin Conran:
They don't. And I that's not me talking. If you look at the DVD extras in Skycap and Angelina Jolie says it, She saw it, and it's just because we cared about it, and it was personal, and it was ours, and it meant something. And, you know, we we were early enough. We were at the bleeding edge of that stuff at the time that there weren't a lot of people positioned to question us on what we were doing.
Kevin Conran:
We've had to kinda trust us. And and, you know, things are coming out, shots were looking good, and people were pleased. So we continue to have that rope, but I I think the big surprise, guys, that I know it was for Carey and I, When we first went in and pitched this thing to Jon Avnet, he turned around after watching it 3 or 4 times in a row, and he said, what do you want? We said, $3,000,000. That's what we thought it would cost to make it.
Kevin Conran:
You know, no stars, you know, just black and white. We we were hoping to get into Sundance or something. He says, well, I think we can do a little better than that. And then you proceed to out and find about $14,000,000. But we we were really convinced, and I know to be true that you could do this for just a handful of 1,000,000.
Kevin Conran:
And that's fully what we anticipated after the movie was done. We thought there'd be a legion of people just like us, had a big idea and not access to a lot of money coming with their own, you know, blue screen movies, and it never happened. In fact, quite the opposite. I mean, all those things that we've done were really further embraced, you know, obviously, by Marvel movies and everything it came after. And Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Right. That's where all that stuff went. It didn't go into a $3,000,000 movie with the 2 kids, you know, in Iowa that put something together and, kinda still waiting on that. It hasn't happened.
Andy Nelson:
Was would you say Sin City is probably the closest that would have come from a I mean, it's a Robert Rodriguez budget. It still is bigger, but it I mean, his budgets are always smaller.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. No. He it was considerably bigger than ours, obviously. I think probably about double. But, we we actually at that time, we met with Robert a few different time, really.
Kevin Conran:
And he was really cool to us. And we he came to see us in Van Nuys when we were doing the movie, and then we saw him again at a screening. And then, we actually spent a weekend up at Skywalker Ranch with him and Zemeckis and Cameron and a few other guys and George. You know? Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
And which was surreal. But, so Robert was was pretty cool to us, and he was, very interested in what we were doing. We shared a lot of stuff back and forth, and I think the thing he had going for him that we didn't really was, and 300 as well. You know, 300 and I you know, the movie has a most wild success and has a big huge I'm not taking any shots at 300, but I think what it did versus what we did were very different things. So ours was more ambitious in scope and scale.
Kevin Conran:
I mean, we went underwater, we went in outer space, went New York City, went to the Himalayas. We were all over the place, and all those worlds and sets had to be created and designed and look believable. Whereas, a lot of 300 is, you know, expansive backgrounds of mountains, and it's a lot less challenging to make those things work. And I think with, Sin City, you know, they had they had the wonderful, work of Frank Miller to guide them. You know, those are almost shot by shot, and they pulled it off great.
Kevin Conran:
I mean, I really I really like those movies, so I'm not taking shots at either one of them. You know?
Pete Wright:
I I think so much of what's fascinating about this to me is that it it comes back to what you said earlier, that this is an organizational design challenge, that you had a 100 people in house that you were working with hands on. When you talk about finding trust and shaving budget, it feels like nothing that is happening in on big productions in Hollywood right now is designed to achieve that goal. You know, as soon as we start shipping shots out to a 3rd party, as soon as we start shopping around production design to a 3rd party, we're introducing lack of trust and bloat. And I I I'm not I'm not sure how that lesson hasn't been internalized more effectively.
Kevin Conran:
I wish I had an answer for you, Pete. I really do, but I don't. I you're 100% right. I I know that when by the time we were really up and running with Sky Captain, should you talk to Zach or any of those people that worked with us? And I just saw a bunch of them.
Kevin Conran:
We had a little 20th anniversary get together, and it was really great to some people I hadn't seen since the film. And, good person. They were all very that was the best experience of my career because it was so unique, you know. Carrie and I relied on those people, so, you know, and we had been we had been the human risk for other artists prior to getting our chance, and so we valued those people, and we both knew that when you give artists and creative people an opportunity on a film to do something, they're gonna be more invested. They're gonna give you their best.
Kevin Conran:
And also, you can't just wear people down and treat them like human pencils because they only have so much to give, and at a certain point, you won't get anything back of any value. And I I knew that because that had happened to me before. So I think the way we worked with everybody was appreciated and, you know, I've got a great story I always tell. There's a, one of my best friends in the world, one of my best friends on the show, this guy named Michael Sean Foley. He was our lighting supervisor.
Kevin Conran:
We didn't know each other prior to the movie, but he got hired and he was there maybe a week or 2. And I designed that big map room that Jude walks through, you know, in the hangar and this giant map on the wall and everything. And I've done a bunch of drawings and it was done. For me, it was done, you know? And I get a knock knock on my door one day, and it's Foley, and he peeks his head in.
Kevin Conran:
He's like, hey. Can you got a minute? And I got I got someone to talk to you about. He was very nice about how he approached the whole thing, but he basically wanted to come in and tell me, I've got a better idea for your math room. And he didn't wanna say that.
Kevin Conran:
He would now, but he he didn't then. Yeah. And so he told me his idea. He said, you know, I just at the time, I just had it sort of designed to be painted on big cinder blocks, and it was nothing special. He said, you know, he said it's such a cool space.
Kevin Conran:
He said, if we if we were to, like, treat it like stretched canvas and put lights before it becomes a light source and we can backlight all these characters, it would be cool. And he was thinking about it like that. And, you know, and I I'm hearing it, and I and it in my head, I'm having my own little conversation. I'm going, damn. Why didn't I think that's such a better idea?
Kevin Conran:
You know? And it was. And so that's what we went with. And that's how we worked. Like, the best idea won, and they weren't always Carrie's idea or my idea.
Kevin Conran:
They were all those talented people we worked with. We were smart enough to say yes, I think. But, you know
Andy Nelson:
Well, it shows. I mean, the the film is, it holds up. It's well worth checking out again. It's a an amazing ride, and I had a blast watching it. And, I it's one that I would love to see on the big screen again because it's just there's something magical about just the way that it looks and feels.
Andy Nelson:
You know?
Kevin Conran:
Oh, thanks. I I I will admit, you know, after all these years of not seeing it, there's a part of me that really didn't have any interest in watching it again. You know? Not everything that came out of Sky Captain was fantastic, and, there's, you know, there's things came along with it that I'd rather not remember. But when it played for that audience back there, it it really got a great reception.
Kevin Conran:
I mean, people really enjoyed it. They they laughed when they should laugh, and they reacted to the emotional stuff when they react to the emotional stuff, and that was all really cool. My favorite thing in that screening was, if you don't mind me sharing, it was, toward the end of the movie when they finally when Joe and Polly finally make it to the island and they bob to the surface in that lagoon, Polly looks down the water, and she sees her name reflected from the there were the call sign on his plane, the whole movie just in our face, but never making any sense. And and so, you know, just again, because I gotta take the piss out of my brother a little bit. I, that was my idea.
Kevin Conran:
Right?
Pete Wright:
Oh, shit. Oh, okay.
Kevin Conran:
It quite literally came to me in a dream. I was asleep, and I just bolted up. I scared the crap out of my wife, and and I scrambled. I've never done this before since, but I scrambled for a piece of paper, and I wrote it down in a fog just so I wouldn't forget it. Then I woke up the next morning, and I I looked at the letters numbers to see if they made sense.
Kevin Conran:
Do they really spell her name back? And they did. So I went in, and I, pitch shaded on my brother just like I did a million other ones in the course of things, and he hated it. He didn't wanna do it. And, so we so we didn't do it.
Kevin Conran:
And then, you know, months later, we're in London, and it's the night before we're gonna shoot that scene, or or maybe it's the night before we're gonna shoot the first. Yeah I'm sorry it's the first scene with the plane whatever that was and so the the plane was brought onto the stage and there were it was after hours just the people milling around and Jude was standing over by it with Carey and I couldn't help myself you know it's my brother it's I know he's the director but he's my bro he's my little brother. You know? So screw it. Right.
Andy Nelson:
So yeah. Right.
Kevin Conran:
And so I go over there, and, they're talking, and, you know, Jude's looking at the plane. I and I just said, very casually, you know, yeah, man. I I really wish we could have done that thing with the call sign. And Jude spins around. He's like, oh, good.
Kevin Conran:
And he says, what thing with the call sign? And so I explained to him the whole idea, and he goes, wow. Well, that's rather the whole movie right there, isn't it? We should do that.
Pete Wright:
And my brother is staring
Andy Nelson:
at me and said like, no.
Kevin Conran:
No. Carrie Carrie nodded and went Yeah. You know, while he's just killing me with his eyes. Right. That's my favorite story.
Kevin Conran:
One of my favorite stories from the whole movie because, that's brothers, you know? And, and it was a good idea, and people in New York really liked it when it played. So I'm Yeah. I'm glad it was in there.
Andy Nelson:
It's a great I've I've always remembered that moment. It's a great moment. So
Pete Wright:
I I know we need to turn our attention to buckaroo, but I just, you know, I mentioned the the sort of divisiveness of the the look of the film when it came out. Now that you've seen it 20 years later with that audience, what's your stance on the sort of legacy of the divisiveness of the film, now that, you know, time does what it does?
Kevin Conran:
You mean from strictly a visual standpoint or the technology and the change of how films are made kind of time?
Pete Wright:
I think both visual, and the critical response and, the sort of legacy of the film and and as it, you know, I think largely even has grown in popularity over the years that, you know, what's your what's your position on it?
Kevin Conran:
I don't apologize for it. I know that, I I remain proud of the film and the work we did on it. I think that, you know, it's hard to look back 20 years in the past and go, wish we'd done this or wish we'd done that because some of the stuff we just couldn't do at the time. You know, we didn't have the either the money or the technical wherewithal to do it. Right?
Kevin Conran:
So there are times when the film feels a little too, Vaseline driven for my taste. I would have sharpened certain things up a little bit, but, you know, some of that again was down to what we could manage. And color, I absolutely would not have that was a dictate from the studio. We had no it was always designed to be a black and white movie. My designs are always black and white.
Kevin Conran:
The thinking was always black and white. When Paramount got involved, they demanded color, and so we bled a little bit of it in there. It doesn't really destroy the film, but I think it would have been much stronger without it. You know, that's the concession we had to make. And then from a technology end, if you know, there were a lot of people in Hollywood that were not happy with us when we were making that movie.
Kevin Conran:
I remember one night, we were we were just out at dinner, my wife and another couple, and the table next to us was talking about our film, which was in production at the time. But this is a, you know, this is an industry town and people talk. Right? It was really weird to hear people talking about it at night.
Andy Nelson:
Without realizing who you were. Right?
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. And I didn't say well, nobody would. I'm just some schmoo, but, like, it was, it was tempting to speak up and say something, but, you know, my wife was a smart person and said, just sit here. And, so yeah, shut your mouth and think it was, you know, it was right. But that movie did change a lot of things.
Kevin Conran:
It changed I mean, it was I I believe it was the first fully digital film released by a major Hollywood studio. And we had to put film grain back into it, do a bunch of stuff because people were freaked out. But it's the only way you can shoot a movie in 24 days. Right? You couldn't do it shooting film.
Kevin Conran:
And then, you know, it changed. Like I said earlier, I I was working directly with all these various artists of different disciplines. And in the past, I would never have been a production designer wouldn't have done that. You know, that's the domain of the VFX supervisor. And I just sort of Right.
Andy Nelson:
You're crossing all those union lines where you Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. And but we were in ND and I'm like, well, this is stupid. I'm not gonna talk directly to my modeler and just and and it helped expedite things because I could give them a rough sketch. I can't tell you how many times we went and had lunch. I drew some crappy thing on a napkin in 30 seconds.
Kevin Conran:
They went back roughed it in. I took the roughed in model, refined it, returned to them, ping ponged it back and forth, and we got to answers really, really quick. And that seems so obvious to me, but you you couldn't do that back then. So there were people who had fiefdom to protect and, you know, all that kind of stuff. And, yeah, that's that's how that all happened.
Pete Wright:
It's amazing.
Andy Nelson:
I mean, it is a fantastic film worth being proud of. So, kudos to you and everybody involved because it's a lot of fun to watch. Thanks. But, yeah, let's shift our attention and start talking about W. D.
Andy Nelson:
Richter's The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai Across the 8th Dimension. This is such an interesting film. I, you know, Pete and I chatted about it on our other show, The Next Reel, a number of years ago, and I revealed to him I had never seen it before. And so that was the first time I ever watched it. And so it's
Pete Wright:
I was so embarrassed for Andy to have to say that out loud. Like, he just missed his childhood.
Kevin Conran:
It does seem like something went awry there, Andy. I
Pete Wright:
know. Right? I know.
Andy Nelson:
I don't like, watching this film, I'm like, this was this would have been the perfect film for me to be watching when it came out because it's just such a quirky, weird little sci fi comedy adventure, you know, sort of film. It's it's a lot of fun. How did this did you see this in theaters? Like, what was your first experience with this? Do
Kevin Conran:
you remember? Absolutely. There day 1, it was released. I didn't know what to expect going into it because, you know, back then, there just wasn't a lot of information available for people. I didn't quite honestly, I saw the poster first.
Kevin Conran:
It was painted by a guy named John Alvin who was I was an art school kid at the time. John Alvin painted a million, you know, great movie posters and, Princess Bride, Star Wars, all kinds of stuff. So I knew his work.
Andy Nelson:
ET. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. And I saw I see the poster, and I'm like, oh. You know? I was just like, I don't know what this is, but I dig it. And so my brother and I went that that very first Friday, I guess.
Kevin Conran:
And, you know, the thing I remember was just I I I must if anybody cameras on us, I must have just had a goofy smile ear to ear the whole movie because I loved everything. I starting with Boetticher's, you know, synth kind of theme song and stuff. It just it was all so of an era and so perfectly encapsulated. My eighties experience, you know, just the clothes and the the goofiness and the fine. It was it just really resonated.
Kevin Conran:
And, yeah, it came out of nowhere. I mean, it it literally came had that poster wasn't dragging me in, so I went in kind of not really knowing what to expect. And when it ended and they're, you know, marching down in the, you know, Sepulveda dam over there, I was just so happy. I couldn't wait for the next movie. And we got up to leave and I and it was kind of a weird stillness to the crowd as he exited.
Kevin Conran:
I think 90% of the people in there didn't know what they watched or what to think about it. And I remember telling Carrie that, you know, this wasn't gonna be a movie for everybody, kinda like ours, I guess. But, like but the people that did get it, I was literally gonna like those people.
Pete Wright:
You know? Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
That's borne out to be true.
Pete Wright:
Well, the moment Andy told me that you picked this movie, I was like, oh, right. Kevin Conner, our new best friend? Of course.
Kevin Conran:
Of course.
Pete Wright:
You don't need to know anyone. Alright. So, yeah, it encapsulates the eighties. Where do you find the intersection of Buckaroo Banzai and your career catalog of work? How do you what inspires you about Buckaroo Banzai as, you know, in your in your art, in your production design?
Kevin Conran:
That's a that's a great question, Pete. I I honestly think like I said, the the first thing the very first word I ever think about when I think about Buckaroo is fun. And you can work in Hollywood, you can work on cool stuff, and it's not always fun. That movie was fun. And in my own work, I I I try to find that.
Kevin Conran:
I loved the mashup quality of it, the the mishmash of of different all the different stuff that was in that movie. I mean, from Orson Welles and War of the Worlds, you know, to why is there a watermelon there? You know? Like, it's just Are
Pete Wright:
you a loner?
Kevin Conran:
You know what I mean? And, I I've I've always liked I've always been drawn to projects that have, like, a foot in the real world. It's not a wholly invented fictional place, but they do reference history and different things. I just think it makes it for me anyway, that makes it more fun. I've been working on a project of my own for years that I hope to turn into a graphic novel, for lack of a better term, I guess.
Kevin Conran:
And maybe eventually, hopefully a film. But it does a lot of those same things. I'm I'm pulling from a lot of genres. I'm pulling from a lot of different things in the real world and in totally invented things. I'm just trying to mash them together in a way that makes sense.
Kevin Conran:
And that was the thing with Buckaroo. I just felt like whatever they did, there's just not one wrong note in that movie for me. They all clicked. You know, it all fit together.
Andy Nelson:
It's such an interesting thing because Hollywood seems to be afraid of things that get mashed together. Right? Like, you know, in our last episode of this show, we were talking, with Mandy Kaplan and how she's working on writing horror comedy scripts and and how Hollywood doesn't like you pitching horror comedy scripts. You can pitch a horror script that might have some comedy elements in it or a comedy that might have some horror elements in it. And I feel like this film kind of fits into that where it's such a a quirky mashup of these different things is, like, is sci fi, it's comedy.
Andy Nelson:
There's there's kind of a a romance in it. Like, there are these different elements that are going on here, and he's like a doctor and a rock star. Like, you you take all these different things and it it fits perfectly in context of this film, but I can see why pitching a story like this in Hollywood might be difficult because it seems like maybe they're trying for too much. And I'm not saying they are, but I think when Hollywood producers hear what you're trying to do, it's like, oh, well, does it need to be all of those things?
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. I I've never met Rausch or Richter. I I would love to, you know, because I think we have sort of a shared experience in a way, you know. Those guys were very clearly so plugged into what they were doing. They knew every detail, every how to cross every t and dot every I.
Kevin Conran:
I felt that that was carrying I and R film. And I think that's what's required to do something that's that complex and trying to do so many different things. You have to have people that are that attached to it, in love with it, will die for it. You know, that's what it's required. And it's not a plug and play movie that you can just fire the director and get another guy.
Kevin Conran:
You know, it's Richter's movie, and that's the guy that could make it. And I think that kind of thing doesn't fit with Hollywood. And it's a shame, you know, that the industry's become what it is where everything's essentially gotta be a blockbuster that makes a $1,000,000,000 and costs $200,000,000 to make because that means a lot of great $15,000,000 movies never get made. And it's a shame. You know?
Kevin Conran:
I think that I think that's gonna change really soon whether people like it or not because AI is inevitable, and you're gonna make people are gonna sit down at their own computer and make their own movie a to z, then it'll be a question about visibility and distribution, all those things. But, studio won't be able to dictate those things. They can they can purchase it or not, I suppose, but they won't be able to wipe out the next w d richter when it comes in with a great idea, you know? And and honestly I don't even think these ideas this mishmash stuff is even all that tough to get your head around. I mean Buckaroo Bonsai for all intents and purposes is the new wave Doc Savage.
Kevin Conran:
Right? And how cool is that? Right? So, I yeah. I love stuff like that.
Kevin Conran:
I think those guys were just absolutely brilliant, and they should have made 4 movies, and I would have adored every one of them. You know? Actually, somewhere around here, I I have the script to the sequel, the unmade sequel.
Pete Wright:
Really?
Kevin Conran:
Yeah, Pete, buddy.
Pete Wright:
I'm pretty excited about that right now, Ken. Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
We might have talked NDAs and few other things, but we can offline.
Pete Wright:
This is a I can talk about that all day long.
Kevin Conran:
I want I'll tell you I'll give you I'll give you a little tease for that Yeah. Yeah. Please. Sequel if you want, and and you will lose your mind because I know I did when I read it. You will lose your mind.
Kevin Conran:
There's 2 characters that pop up in the story. One of them is, I think he's, he's running a particle physics lab at Pepperdine. It's Chris Knight from Real Genius.
Pete Wright:
Mhmm.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. The other is Jack Burton from Big Trouble. Oh, seriously? Yeah. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
How great
Pete Wright:
is that? This is the massive joy of pastiche.
Kevin Conran:
Like
Pete Wright:
right? Like, people pass that word around, and it's they, like, use it as an insult. This movie is amazing. And the fact that you get oh my goodness.
Kevin Conran:
I know. I love both those movies.
Pete Wright:
Yes.
Kevin Conran:
And now to feed them into the one is the beating heart of all 3 of them.
Pete Wright:
I would and I would say
Kevin Conran:
Give me more. Just shoot it into my veins.
Pete Wright:
Like, that would never I that movie, of course, will never get made today. No.
Kevin Conran:
No.
Pete Wright:
And I, I wonder if even it hasn't even been that long, but I wonder if a movie like Ready Player 1 could possibly be made even now, you know, based on the book, but just with so many licensable properties in it. So it I think that's interesting. But at the same time, you know, well, I guess, you know, when you own all the properties, I guess you could do anything you want with them.
Kevin Conran:
I suppose. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I suppose that's true.
Andy Nelson:
Look at Space Jam legacy.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. I was like Space Jam, right? There you go.
Kevin Conran:
I work I worked on that. So You worked
Pete Wright:
on it. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Yeah. And,
Andy Nelson:
I mean, it even threw in a reference to the devils in in the crowds.
Pete Wright:
So That was classic.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Yeah. It was I'm a huge basketball nerd too. So I had a chance to work in that arena with those guys was pretty unique, pretty punk.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. No kidding. Arena. That's adorable.
Andy Nelson:
One of the things that I I find so enjoyable with this is the is the cast and watching these people play off against each other. You know?
Kevin Conran:
And Oh, man.
Andy Nelson:
I mean, Peter Weller is is his droll personality that works so well in something like RoboCop plays really well as this is this character, as our lead character here. And I just I enjoy watching him the title role so much because he just there's something about him that I end up buying him in all of these roles. Like, when he puts on his scrubs or when he's, you know, picks up his guitar or he's hopping in the car or whatever it is. Like, I end up buying him in all of it.
Kevin Conran:
Perfect fit. I mean, he looked the part. He moved the part. He was he was, you know, unhurried, unflustered, 5 steps ahead everybody else. I mean, yeah, I think he just did a phenomenal job.
Kevin Conran:
I know that he said he, sort of patterned the character after a his own pastiche of, Jacques Cousteau and Adam Ant, you know, which I thought I totally understand. I see it. You know? That's that was absolutely brilliant. Really funny and brilliant.
Pete Wright:
I think it's I I think people who love him in Robocop as Robocop, I really contend that he found his true calling as a character actor as Buckaroo Banzai, and he is still Buckaroo Banzai in Robocop. To me, they're the same. Like, eventually, he just he gave up with the band and became a police officer because I feel like he found who he is, in this movie in 1984, and he has been that ever since in some variation or another.
Kevin Conran:
If it
Pete Wright:
ain't broke so perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
Pete Wright:
So so perfect.
Andy Nelson:
I love like, there there's a moment in this that always or that really when I rewatched it for this, it really struck me at, like, just such an interesting way and unexpected moment in the film that was surprising. And it's when he's, at his you know, he's on stage getting ready to play, and then suddenly he hears, Ellen Barkin's character, and he stops everything to, like, have this this intimate conversation with her and and how she's heartbroken and and, you know, suicidal and just like this this very kind of, like, out of nowhere shift in the tone as he kind of, like, goes to kind of help this this woman in need. And that to me, like, having a moment like that, I think, other, writers and directors would not necessarily have included that, but there's something about having that moment in here that just continued to, like, allow for this world to be as expansive as it is.
Kevin Conran:
Absolutely. You know, I mean, that's such a pivotal moment in the story. And funny thing is, you know, I don't know why. This was years ago, but I I I was just I wanna know where they shot this movie. You know?
Kevin Conran:
So I started digging in, and that scene was shot in this little crappy warehouse down in the arts district in LA. And so I I went on to see it. It's been I think it's been renovated now, and they're turning into something else. But, I yeah. I cruised around one day and just killed the day driving around to all these locations.
Kevin Conran:
There's a giant factory outlet mall off the 5 Freeway, called The Citadel. It's been there for years, but that was yo yo dine, you know, before they revamped it. And, so, yeah, I'd I'd I that's what a nerd I am for this thing. I just kinda cruised around LA and looked at a lot of the places they shot stuff. Some of them I knew, but, others I didn't.
Pete Wright:
I think this movie, I and why I I mean, it always it it for the last many weeks, we've been planning this conversation, why it felt like such a natural pick for you, especially after the stories you're telling us off of of sky captain is that this movie gives me on screen exactly the feeling that I hope they would've had making it. Right? You talked about having fun, just having fun making movie. Yeah. This is an exercise in fandom.
Pete Wright:
Right? It's an exercise in people who are already fans of what they're creating, having a blast with it. Right? And and being able to to just sort of, you know, speak truth to power, poke fun at the production team that doesn't necessarily trust them. You know, the dropping things like, why is that watermelon there as a test Right.
Pete Wright:
For the production team. Are you really watching the dailies? Right?
Kevin Conran:
The fact that
Pete Wright:
that makes it into the movie is an extraordinary testament to the kind of fun they were having, the subversive fun they were having. And I feel like that's what connects me to the movie is that I've I've always wanted to make sure that whatever I make is has that degree of fun to it because why else do we show up? Why do we let the not fun stuff take over?
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. I think, I try to get that point across to my students now, you know, because, I there's a lot of anxiety attached to making art, you know, and people can get inside their own heads and question what they're doing, or who's gonna like this, or why am I doing it? And the work suffers, you know? And when what you really need to do is just sort of put blinders on and do your thing, you know? And don't apologize for it.
Kevin Conran:
Just make it because you love it. Hopefully, if your goal is to have other people connect with it, those people will find it or you'll lead them to it. But, yeah, if it's not fun for you, what's why are you doing it? There's better ways to make money. You know?
Kevin Conran:
Go do that's the goal. Go do those things. But if it's to make art and it's to make things you care about, It better be fun. Foley that that friend of mine I mentioned earlier, Michael Sean, we went to see a screening of Buckaroo several years ago now, but we went because Lithgow was gonna speak after. And it was awesome, and that's really kinda all he talked about was how much fun they had and how I think even when they were making it, they didn't fully know what they were doing either at times, but it was just fun.
Kevin Conran:
You know?
Pete Wright:
Well, and the fact that he I mean, I don't know if he he maybe spoke about this, but I think we read somewhere that he that, you know, he takes all of his roles seriously and this won the most. Right? It's like, he didn't even know what he's doing, and he's like, he was in it, and he's totally in it. You could tell he's absolutely in it.
Andy Nelson:
Well, and he's a person who's been in some other really big roles.
Pete Wright:
Right?
Kevin Conran:
So Yeah. Absolutely. I think I think he, at that time, at the production of Buckaroo, I think he'd already been a 2 time Oscar nominee or something. Pretty sure that's right.
Andy Nelson:
I think the world according to Garp was, like, right before like, the year before this, I think.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
He's he's as legit as they get, and he was fully committed to it, which is awesome. And, you know, going back to our experience with Skycap, and I feel like we were lucky in that way too because at the time, you know, Jude and Gwyneth and Angeline and Jolie were as big as stars as there were anywhere. Right? And they could have come in and been difficult. They're going, what the hell is this goofy, cool experiment?
Kevin Conran:
But they were all in, and they were it was great. You know, you you have to have that or you can't make a movie. Right?
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Well and there's something about that infectious fun that's being had on set in a production that comes through in the film. And I feel like I'm seeing that here. Like, anytime that we're with, you know, the the trio of the aliens, was it, like, Christopher Lloyd, Vincent Scovelli and Dan Hadea? Like, watching them, like, they're just it's I mean, Dan Hidaya can be he's such a grumpy faced looking person, but he can be like, he can just have just perfect comedy moments because of that.
Andy Nelson:
And and, like, I always go to Joe versus the volcano for that because he's so funny. But, like, watching those guys as the aliens just they're they're in it. They are having a blast, like, being these these strange little aliens, and they're they're just delivering, and it's just so much fun to watch.
Kevin Conran:
No doubt. I, you know, I I couldn't pick a single favorite moment from this movie because they're all favorites, but at the end, when turns around and shoots Christopher Lloyd and he slips out of that suit, It kills me every single time. It's just the best. I love it.
Pete Wright:
I I get get really moved just seeing the, Ron Lacey as president Widmark, only because this movie in in the spirit of 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon, the fact that this movie is is connected to Indiana Jones, to Raiders of the Lost Ark by Ronald Lacey as Wild. Right. Yeah. As Todd is extraordinarily good fortune for trivia nerds everywhere.
Kevin Conran:
That 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon thing is no joke. Like, you you know, I don't have the lengthy career of a lot of people, but I I am stunned by you you bring up a name, and I can pretty much assure you I can get there. You know? It's remarkable, the tendrils.
Pete Wright:
Hey. You just by being here today, you just gave us Jude Law.
Kevin Conran:
Well, he's a swell guy, so I'm happy to give him to you.
Pete Wright:
Outstanding. He was fun
Kevin Conran:
to work with. Yeah.
Pete Wright:
I have a murder board above my desk. You can't see it, but it's really just my 6 degrees board. It's just yarn and, pushpins and Hollywood names.
Andy Nelson:
Oh, man. It never ended up getting the sequel that you were talking about, but it did end up getting a lot of spin offs in books and comics and, video game and everything. It's like, I mean, there's definitely like this cult following with this property. I mean, I had a friend in high school who would say, wherever you go, there you are. Just it's it's just one of those things that people would just if you knew, you knew sort of thing.
Andy Nelson:
It's like Jeep owners. Right? Yeah. It's were you ever tapped into all of that sort of stuff? Because there's, I guess, there's a lot of it.
Andy Nelson:
I haven't looked at it, but I my understanding is it's it's quite a bit.
Kevin Conran:
I I bought, a book that has some collected stories and stuff in it that I think the guys never fully evolved along with, you know, what I think was meant to be the story for the sequel as well. But, that was about it. I never I don't know. I never I never wanted anything to do with the comics. They I think they just I I've been a comic nerd off and on my entire life, and I've you know?
Kevin Conran:
I say off and on because I probably really quit regularly buying comics every Wednesday, you know, 7 or 8 years ago. But I still buy a lot of comics, and they it just felt too far removed from the creators and the sense of the film. It it it it didn't I flipped through them in a in a and it just felt different to me. It wasn't the movie I remember or the world I wanted to live in. It It weirdly felt like I was trying to conform to something else, and I think that's just down to, again, a bunch of other people being involved when this was clearly the brainchild of a couple of lunatics that were all in on it.
Kevin Conran:
You know? God bless them.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. On such a snapshot. Right? You you said it. Like, it's such a snapshot of 1984 and exactly where we were in 1984.
Pete Wright:
It's like a bookmark, and poor Andy will never understand that to the same degree.
Kevin Conran:
I'm sorry, Andy. Oh, I'll
Andy Nelson:
always be pining for it, but I'll never have
Pete Wright:
it. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
Well, you know, you you you said something earlier, Pete, I think about, you know or maybe it was you, Andy. I I can't remember. But one of you guys said something about, you know, almost like a language that other people don't understand, and I'm cool with that. I'd I'd like that. You know?
Kevin Conran:
If nobody else got this movie but me and a handful of, you know, people, I was totally fine with that because I I knew the people that got it got it on the same kind of level I did. I I just dug it.
Andy Nelson:
The the Hong Kong cavaliers, it's, quite a a mix of interesting actors that would go on to, you know, be prominent in many different ways. Were there any that were your favorites as you would return to this movie or as, like, you see outfits, anything that stands out as the things that really market as, like, your favorite bits?
Pete Wright:
Well, I think, you
Kevin Conran:
know, obviously, it's it's hard to look past Goldblum because he was such a big presence that way. He's so amazing, and it was just so fun. But, yeah. I'm pretty sure I left that movie that they fully intent on becoming perfect Tommy. You know?
Kevin Conran:
That's A 100%. Who I wanted to be.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Yep.
Kevin Conran:
That's it. And, you know, I and a a year or 2 ago, I got to I got to meet Luis, briefly a mutual friend, and I I was so just on fire to talk to the guy, you know? Because it's perfect Tommy, man. Yeah. I and I loved him every time he was on screen, you know, even just a little little simple moments, you know?
Kevin Conran:
They they cut away to him when when at the beginning of the movie, when Bucker is in the jet car, you know, and all hell's starting to break loose and people are freaking out, and they cut to Tommy, and he's just sort of sitting there with his legs crossed reading the newspaper. It'll hold. It'll hold. You know? And he's just he's just a good chill.
Kevin Conran:
That's my guy, man.
Pete Wright:
Some of it has changed over the years. Like, I think about Clancy Brown and what he has become in nerd culture too. Right? Like, the fact that, that this was sort of the first time I feel like I really associated his name with his him as a performer. And then he's gone on to be the voice of so many just echaracters for me in, you know, across animation is, is extraordinary.
Pete Wright:
And Star Trek and all of the different things that he's done, he's been such a a cornerstone of nerd culture performances that, it it'd be hard for me to to hold my sweat if I had to come in contact with him face to face. That'd be rough.
Kevin Conran:
Well, so okay. So another time, my wife had to tell me to stay in my chair and not be an idiot, was another night out having dinner and, you know, just a a table. Well, actually, we weren't even at dinner. We were sitting at a having dinner. We were sitting at a bar, and we're on this side, and there's an l, and there's Clancy Brown, who I presume to be his wife.
Kevin Conran:
And he's right there. You know? He's right there. Yeah. And and I'm just you know?
Kevin Conran:
She's like, just don't don't don't don't be an idiot. Let let let the guy have his dinner. I just don't.
Pete Wright:
What about when he's done, dude? What what about when he's done? What about when he takes so let you tell me when he takes glass pipes.
Kevin Conran:
Can I chase him to the parking lot?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
No. I I had my chance, and I choked. I didn't do it. I shouldn't have listened to him that time. But, no.
Kevin Conran:
He's such a I mean, even right now, I I haven't watched, I'm not fully up to date on the penguin yet on Max. But, you know, there he is, and he's awesome, and he's just such a presence, you know, whether it's just in in the voice over stuff he does or on screen. Like, even at Buckaroo, he he physically owns a space, he's a bigger guy, you know, he always feels like he's in control. I I just see I know it's a presence that he projects and, it's funny. I I was a very short, tiny, little high school basketball player a 1000000 years ago, and I loved basketball.
Kevin Conran:
And one of our games turned really rough, and there was ordered on a fight, and I got knocked to the ground pretty hard. And, you know, well, 5, 10 of me, £140 isn't gonna do a whole lot, and I get up. And I remember we had a guy in our team named Dwayne Wilson who went on to play a little professional football. Dwayne was Clancy Brown. He came over and he shut that down.
Kevin Conran:
He scraped me up, and he let the guy there'll be no more of that. You know? And that's kinda how I was with Clancy in in his role in the Cavaliers was was that guy.
Pete Wright:
Yeah. He's that guy. And then he became the Kuragin. I mean, come on.
Kevin Conran:
He's the guy, man.
Pete Wright:
Just 2 years later, he's the guy. Ugh.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. Always has been the guy. Yeah.
Kevin Conran:
It it is it's it's a remarkable cast. I mean, right down to I was it I think it was Ellen Barkin's first film. Right? If not, it was real close.
Andy Nelson:
Let me look.
Kevin Conran:
But I I couldn't tell you.
Andy Nelson:
No. It was diner,
Kevin Conran:
a few years before.
Pete Wright:
Holy cow.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. But it's still early on in her career, the first couple years of of, you know, work for her. And, you know, it's it's fun to see her in this. You know, I have heard some complaints as far as like this like, they would have liked to have seen a little less of the, the woman who needs saving sort of character, but at the same time, it's also the eighties. And so I can see I can I I definitely understand that argument, but you also have to acknowledge when this film came out?
Andy Nelson:
And it's like, well, that's kind of how films were back then, unfortunately. You know?
Kevin Conran:
You know? And they and again, I think that those guys were drawing from inspirations like Doc Savage and a million other things. And, you know, not unlike, again, Gwyneth as Ollie Perkins. They Ellen Barkin's character had her moments, you know, where she had to step up and be brave and, you know she she never felt despite the fact that she's gonna croak herself in the middle of that club at the beginning of the film she never felt particularly weak or vulnerable to me she felt like a presence you know and yeah, I I don't you know? Listen.
Kevin Conran:
You can't please everybody. Right? And if if that's the criticism of this film, I guess you can put it down to that era in which it was made, but, I thought she was great and enjoyed the whole thing.
Andy Nelson:
Yeah. And it's Ellen Barkin in the eighties. You know, she just had a presence anyway in the projects. And even if it was a smaller role like this, it's just it's fun to see her in the role because I think, again, I think she also, like everybody, understood the assignment and played well into this world, you know?
Kevin Conran:
For sure. Yeah. They, they seem to be very, and again, I don't know if that's down to, you know, Richter and Rausch and just the whole infusion of energy they gave that thing that must have felt alive on the set. I mean, everybody did feel very plugged in. You know?
Kevin Conran:
And there wasn't anybody that felt out of bounds in that movie to me.
Andy Nelson:
Well, I mean, it's the sort of movie that ends on your whole cast of characters, like you said, walking down the dam area there and just, like, this musical thing that's happening. And it's like, it it hits every time, and I always like, the few times that I've seen it now, I'm always like, this is the strangest way to, like, build to the end of this film. But something about it just seems perfect. Like, it's just they're all together. They click, like I don't know.
Andy Nelson:
It's just such a fun end to the film.
Kevin Conran:
Well, and it was very, audacious, you know, to
Pete Wright:
Yeah. To
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. Peg the, you know, not green lit sequel as part of the close to, you know, will be returned. And I'm still waiting for him to return.
Pete Wright:
I I guarantee you if I had been an LA local as a teenager, I would have reenacted that sequence with my friends. We would have been down there wearing trench coats out of season a 100% in that day.
Kevin Conran:
Yeah. I'd I lived very near there at one point. We had a house, in Encino, not far from there. And, you know, the thought definitely crossed my mind, but at that point, I had 3 small children. It was supposed to be a grown up, so it never happened.
Kevin Conran:
But, you know, I would've. I
Pete Wright:
just I'll just say it out loud. I I can say the quiet part out loud. Kevin, it's not too late. It's never too late.
Kevin Conran:
I I think I have 3 grown children who would really disagree with you on that.
Pete Wright:
You're kidding? They need to be there. You're gonna need more people.
Kevin Conran:
Alright. Well, Pete, next time you're out here, we'll we'll start to You got it. Factor
Pete Wright:
that plan
Andy Nelson:
into action. Yeah. Put into
Kevin Conran:
action. There you go.
Pete Wright:
I got I got some people down there. I got some friends down there. We're gonna we're gonna get the band together. It's gonna be great.
Kevin Conran:
Alright. Sounds good. I'll call Lewis Smith.
Pete Wright:
Oh, yes, please.
Andy Nelson:
Hong Kong Cavaliers take 2. That'll be awesome. Uh-huh. Well, I mean, it's wonderful conversation about this crazy movie. I'm so glad that I had a chance to a reason to watch it again because it's just it's such a strange quirky film that it grows on me every time I watch it.
Andy Nelson:
Lot of fun. Thank you so much for bringing it to the show so that we could chat about it with you.
Kevin Conran:
My pleasure, guys. I'm I hope more people will discover it and enjoy it and, take it for what it's meant to be and and really appreciate what those guys accomplished. Yeah. So yeah. Thanks for giving me a chance to talk about it.
Pete Wright:
It's been a treat.
Andy Nelson:
Well, thanks again, Kevin. We appreciate it. And we will put links for your Instagram and your website in the show notes so everyone can check it
Pete Wright:
out
Andy Nelson:
and, see what you're up to. Is there anything else you're working on that people should look at? I
Kevin Conran:
did. You know, I was lucky enough, I guess. It's been a couple of years now that, dynamite did a book of all my artwork from Sky Captain. And, you know, I I resisted doing that for 20 years. I just never had any interest, and then people convinced me to do it for my kids if for no other reason.
Kevin Conran:
And I'm now that it's done and out there, I'm really glad I did because I think it meant a lot to a lot of the people who worked on the film, and you can get it at Amazon. So, it's it's out there.
Andy Nelson:
Oh, fantastic. Has, Sky Captain been upgraded to 4 k at all, or is that in the works? Any information on that?
Kevin Conran:
I honestly have no idea. I I don't know. I've never checked. I
Andy Nelson:
I guess at this point, it's in the hands of the studio as to if they're gonna do it or not.
Kevin Conran:
I I I wanna say that they did a few years back. It feels like that was a thing. That was a conversation. But, I I couldn't tell for a fact.
Andy Nelson:
Well, it seems like the sort of movie that should be. Anyway, we'll, have links for it in the show notes because people definitely need to check that out again. And, you know, again, thank you so much. We really appreciate, you being part of the show and having this conversation with us.
Kevin Conran:
It was my pleasure, fellas. Thanks so much. Thank you
Pete Wright:
for being our new best friend.
Kevin Conran:
We'll talk about that script. Alright, Pete?
Pete Wright:
Yeah. Alright. Alright. Offline. You got it.
Pete Wright:
I'm right there. Thanks, Kobi.
Kevin Conran:
Take care, fellas.
Andy Nelson:
Alright. Well, everybody, we hope you like the show and certainly hope you like the movie like we do here at movies we like. Movies we like is a part of the True Story FM Entertainment podcast network and the Next Real family of film podcasts. The music is chomp clap by out of flux. Find the show at true story dot f m and follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, threads, and letterboxed at the next reel.
Andy Nelson:
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