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Join The Urban Rez for an exciting journey that dives into the intersections of culture, sports, and lifestyle with a fresh, global, inclusive perspective. Each 30-minute episode brings a unique blend of conversations, stories, and interviews that explore the passions and experiences that define our lives.
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Marcus White 0:04
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Music 0:40
on. The grasshoppers,
Marcus White 1:16
happy Sunday morning. Dr B, how are you feeling this morning? Hey,
Dr. B 1:20
good morning, all my good people listening. Very wonderful. That's awesome.
Marcus White 1:25
Look at you all chipper. So it's been a great week, but today is going to be an awesome show. We're going to talk about we're going to call this the silent season, and basically what athletes face when no one's watching, so they cheer your name under the bright lights, but who checks on you in the dark today we step off the court, out of the locker room and into a space athletes rarely get a chance to talk about what happens to the mind when the body is pushed to its limits and then left behind. The headlines celebrate championships, stat and n, i l deals, but beneath every highlight reel is an untold story. You have the pressure, identity, loss, isolation, trauma. Athletes aren't just performers. There are people navigating mental health battles few ever see. And today's guest knows this terrain better than most. This isn't just another conversation about mental health. This is about the silent season, the one that comes when the crowds are gone and what it really takes to come back stronger. I
Dr. B 2:27
am really happy about today's session, because we are getting time and space with one of my favorite mental health warriors, Bianca McCall, and I'm just gonna say some of her background right now. Joining us today as someone who embodies excellence in both athletics and mental health innovation. Bianca is a retired professional basketball player turned Licensed Clinical therapist with over 25 years of experience in behavioral health and more than a decade as a healthcare CEO. She's a TED speaker, a trusted advisor with the HHS and the mind behind well Excel a groundbreaking model addressing mental health through education, tech and healing centered practices. Bianca works with global giants like the NFL and G Fauci Hey now, and she's shaping national policies on suicide prevention and digital mental health, whether she's building AI tools to save lives or mentoring future change makers. Bianca shows up with unmatched passion and purpose, and I can attest to that. Bianca, welcome to our show the urban red.
Bianca McCall 3:31
What's going on? Thank you so much for having me. Thank you for the introduction. I always tell people when I'm getting introduced, I want you to turn down the lights. I want you. I want to hear, I want to hear the hum of the crowd and and six one from Santa Rosa, California, Bianca,
Dr. B 3:51
thank you. And I call, and I'm clapping, clapping from the standby. Let's do some
Bianca McCall 3:58
high fives across this table right now. No, thank you. I'm super juiced to be here. Thank you for having me
Marcus White 4:03
so beyond good again. You're just an awesome person. So as a former pro athlete, term mental health expert, what's the things most people completely misunderstand about mental health struggles of an elite athlete?
Bianca McCall 4:19
First, number one, I think just even the concept of being a former athlete, right? I think being an athlete, it stays with you, you know, and it's the way that I approach life, business, love, you know, everything. I always consider myself to be an athlete and in competition against my own expectations. And so when we talk about what's misunderstood, about the challenges that elite athletes face and mental health concerns, one is that you know that that mental health, the challenges that we face, we deserve it, or because we have a lot of attention, because we're experiencing a lot of success, because, for some athletes, they're getting paid. That, you know, it's deserved. You know, the mental health struggles that you go through. I also think that it gets minimized. You know, it gets belittled. Also, you know, going, going with the the success that you experience, you know, the attention that you have, the money that you get, it doesn't those things don't replace just the human experience. And I think it's hard for a lot of people, spectators, fans of the sports, even people that are a part of the sports ecosystem in different roles. It's hard for people to truly understand the battles that elite athletes go through, just to prepare, you know, to compete at a high level, but also to compete against, again, their own expectations. That inner voice, that that we all have but an elite athlete, that inner voice is, is one that, that you know, kind of puts you in the space of almost like delusion, right? Delusion so that you could, you could overcome and you can champion. And and I go around quoting this man like, like I know him, like I'm getting paid by the the Golden State Warriors organization as well. I am not. But Steph Curry said this, and it was after the Warriors beat the Sacramento Kings, and in the 2026 or 2023 campaign, and, and Steph says, you know, everybody's like, how did you, you know, how did you basically put the team on your back and carry to this, this win or this beating the kings in the series? And he says, you know, I'm just enough delusional to believe that I can overcome the physical circumstances, that I'm not the quickest, I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest on the court, but I believe that I can overcome those physical circumstances and still dominate and play at a high level and and to me, it was like ah, feeling seen, heard, understood, right, like that is the that is the struggle, and that is a that is a mental health challenge, overcome to to believe in yourself that you can overcome your circumstances. And in an even bigger challenge is when the physical circumstances win, you know, like you look at the whole campaign last season with Lebron James and in LeBron James against Father Time and and all these things, and it was cool, you know? I mean, Braun is doing some amazing things, you know, on the basketball court at his age, right at the stage in his career, but, but ultimately, the physical conditions are human conditions. They are undefeated and so absolutely. So it's difficult, I think, for for people to understand, if you're not an elite athlete. It's difficult to understand when you celebrate in, you know, you iconic size a human being, and look at them as they are super human, because look at what they've been able to overcome when the physical circumstances or physical reality overcomes us. You know, they're just there's gotta be a little bit more compassion, you know, gotta be a little bit more compassion. And
Dr. B 8:04
so with that compassion, let's kind of visit us when we were younger athletes, like all of us sitting here at this table, all played sports, also in college. We all played some type of college sport. So, you know, as being a younger athlete, and at that time, we're trying to still attain that elite status in our high school early college years. So even the mental health challenges at that imprint of our lives, you know, just the journey, and we're talking about the pressures. How do you understand those different pressures at a younger stage of an athletic career versus we talked about the later. But do you foresee, like, a difference in the stages of mental health? Yeah,
Bianca McCall 8:47
no. Great question. And, and really, when we're more younger, you know, a lot of our young athletes, especially today, so it's a little bit different, you know. And you mentioned in my introduction, you know, like 25 years, you know? And I'm like, dang, that's aging me, right? Because I'm a little older now, you know, a little slower, less agile. You know, you wiser. I'm wiser. I could tell the weather. I could tell when it's about to rain. My ACL, my sciatica starts telling me when it's about to rain, y'all, but no. So when, when we're younger, and especially today young athletes, they're in a in a business, right? They're being made to be employees of this multi million billion dollar industry at a very young age. And so the mental health challenges being able to confront that, confront those challenges that very young people are experiencing. It's it's a little bit more difficult, if you ask me, now, for for younger players, because you have all these dynamics right and and when we talk about mental health challenges and addressing them, we need to be able to access kind of internal resources, right? Internal Strength. Strengths and skills to be able to manage our mental health, and then we've got to be able to access environmental or external resources. And it's so much more difficult for young athletes today because their access, which should be greater, right with technology and all these other things, their access is very limited. Their access to quality resources to other people that are also not in crisis, right? And so when you think about a young person in the sports ecosystem, their parents, you know, are arguably also in crisis, right? They see their parents struggling to pay these dues, you know, to get them in these tournaments and on these trips, and to travel and and for equipment and uniforms and all these things they see that they're, you know, the adults in their ecosystem are also stressed. You talk about coaches, for example, coaches are stressed, right? Because of the transient nature and the lack of job security coaches are, and especially coaches of young athletes. They are, they're conditioned to make decisions that are best for the team, but also have to keep their own position and job title in mind. And so when you are basically sacrificing the identity, the you know, the the identity, the the confidence of a young person's life that weighs on you, right? So then you've got all the adults around you that are also in crisis, and then you've got siblings and stuff like that that are like, man, we're always on the road. We're so focused on you and in your career. So you've got strained relationships all over the place. These are, these are the things you know when we talk about silence, right? Like, these are the things that our young athletes are going through, and there are not enough resources to supply that, that demand of like, how do we increase access to to adults, to to other resources that are not also in crisis, right? And you're also perceiving it as, as a young person, that you are the reason for, for them being in crisis, you know? And so that's why, you know, I'm just so passionate about, especially former athletes like myself, you know, being involved in, in continuing to be involved in the sports ecosystem. And it doesn't have to be like, you're a broadcaster, you're this, you're that. But being involved, by being involved in these young people's lives, you know, doing the mentorship, going out and speaking to teams and to groups. You know, I love that I thrive on that I love speaking to young athletes, especially a particular affinity for my young female athletes out there. Because female athletes, we have a different and unique experience, you know. You know, I've had a ton of conversation with y'all, like, off of the off of the platform where, you know, we talk about just what is required for our young athletes and our young female athletes. You know, sports is, it's kind of like this masculine, dominated, you know, kind of space so for for young, young ladies, you know the we're expected to be ladies on in streets, right? But like a beast on the court and a beast on the field, and, you know, a beast in competition and and being able to, kind of, like, switch that on and off, that
Dr. B 13:20
code switching with it is definitely a big situation that we face as female athletes. And then also when is too masculine, too masculine, and when is not feminine enough, not feminine enough. And that's applicable to all sectors of our life. And I think that's that's something Bianca, that you and I discuss is, you know, kind of losing your femininity to to the general consensus, because you're an athlete or a former athlete, and sometimes in that space, we tend to lose our femininity because it's just we're ingrained in sports and a very, I guess, competitive and What is foreseen as a very masculine identity roles,
Bianca McCall 14:02
absolutely. Doc. This reminds me of, I remember playing in college, and we're doing weight training and things like that. And this is in the springtime and conditioning coaches like McCall, like, add add a plate to that. Like, you're not, you're not training to go on spring break, to be in a bikini on spring break. Like, you know, add a plate. Do some squats, you know what I mean? And, and I remember, like, just to your point, feeling like, yeah, no, I'm giving up, kind of just my idea of what a young woman should be in this case. And I'm building, I'm reshaping my body. I'm molding my body to be an excellent competitor on the court and have a lot of success there. But even things like body image is it's just such a it's not talked about enough for our young athletes, both male and female athletes, but body image the way that we have to prepare and train and mold and sculpt our bodies to be great in sport, it doesn't always, you know, connect with. How we want to be perceived and received off of the quarter out of competition. And for me, I remember, you know, I started wearing, like, basically basketball shorts and sweats, like every single day, because I can't be, you know, my jeans weren't, weren't fitting, right? You know, like, you know, I can squat the most out of any female athlete, you know, at the school, but those squats mean that my jeans aren't aren't fitting the way that they're supposed to be fitting, right? And so, so I'm gonna wear hoop shorts, I'm gonna wear sweats, I'm gonna wear hoodies, then, then I can just get real comfortable, you know? And the outside world, they're looking at me like a young female athlete and kind of like, man, like, why are you always, you know, like you dress like a dude, like you're over here, and I'm like, No, I'm dressed like I'm comfortable, you know, like I'm dressed like I train to be great at my at my sport, at my job, you know, and what I'm told my job is. And so, yeah, I think, you know, body image, how we see ourselves, how we how we want to be seen, and how we want to be accepted. These are just, it just adds to the plate. Of these are the mental health challenges that we don't talk about. The urban
Marcus White 16:05
Rez is underwritten by the Las Vegas Motor Speedway, Nevada's premier sports venue, hosting two NASCAR and NHRA race weekends and the largest annual electronic music festival in North America, the Electric Daisy Carnival. NASCAR will be in Las Vegas October 10 through 12th, for tickets and more information. Lvms.com
Dr. B 16:26
as as a rez girl, we have this ongoing native joke. So on the res, res ball is really big, right? But in the swimming pool, if you're quote, unquote, Rez or two rez, you'll see nothing but our our female athletes or and just community members in general, wearing basketball shorts T shirts with their sports bra into the pool, right? And we're like, oh yeah, that's a red swimsuit. Like, basketball maybe you're a former res all turning shirt and a sports bra. Like, there's no bathing suit, no bikini. We're rocking some basketball shorts and maybe an old all star, all turning t shirt and a sports bra.
Marcus White 17:04
Quick, quick question for you. So when going back to the Olympics, when Simone Biles spoke out about her mental health, of course, you had critics on both sides, what was your initial reaction when she actually brought brought that to the forefront? Because again, prior to that point, mean talking about mental health and sports, typically, it really wasn't even spoke up,
Bianca McCall 17:24
right? No. Love it. Love it. I love all of the athletes that are talking about mental health. There's been this kind of like, trendy statement going around for the last couple years, it's okay to not be okay. It's okay to not be okay, right? I don't know if y'all heard it, but, but one for me, as I receive that, even as a mental health professional, I say yes, it's okay to not be okay, but then secretly and inside, I'm telling myself, for them, but for me, it's still not okay to not be okay, right? I got to push through, right? And so having a Simone Biles, having, you know, all these athletes that are, that are coming forward, and for me, I always give I always salute Kevin Love, because Kevin Love was like, really, the first, like, athlete that really came forward and talked about his breakdowns, you know, and not only is it okay to not be okay, but now it's okay to talk about why I'm not okay and what it looks like when I'm not okay, right? Kevin Love, Michael Phelps, you know, Naomi Osaka, like all these athletes, started coming forward and saying, you know, we need to talk about mental health, and then we also need to establish some boundaries, right? Because the relationship between athletes and and the rest of the sports world, you know, the spectators, the brought, like media, everybody, right? The relationship has been kind of toxic for a while, right? And so to me, I love that. And I love it, because not only are we exposing the fact that, you know, mental health challenges are very real, and all athletes go through it, there's no athlete that's not, you know, having to overcome something like this, but also, it's now time for us to be empowered, to establish some boundaries, right, to protect our mental health, to protect our peace. You know, we are entitled to that, whether you're getting paid or not. You know, in your sport, it's just so important that we continue to bring a voice to these challenges. And
Dr. B 19:18
there's another point. Bianca and I drive over here, so thank you for picking me up. Hey, and but we did have a conversation on the right over here discussing this June is men men's mental health month, and I see a lot of my male buddies posting on the Instagram the importance of recognizing male mental health. And so I just wanted to touch on that from your perspective as a professional therapist, you know, really looking at the lens of men's mental health, especially as it relates to sports as well, because we talked about some of the challenges as females, right,
Bianca McCall 19:55
right? Yeah, no, we gotta. We gotta show love to our counterpart. And to me, that's really the name of the game in sports. You know, is we got to support each other, right? And so men's mental health, yes, really excited to talk about this subject, especially because we just mentioned masculinity and femininity, right? Masculinity is expected for us to be able to compete at high levels, right? And for men, it's expected to be able to compete at high levels in sports and in life, right? There's these the burden of, you know, you got to be a man, and you have to, you know, excel and succeed at every single thing that you do right, on and off your field or your arena of play, and masculinity is also tied to this idea that you've gotta suck it up and you've gotta push through that you can't show emotion, that emotion or emotionality is weakness, right? So all of these really, like toxic ideas about mental health, is tied directly linked to masculinity. And so for men, you know, it's, it's really about like, meeting yourself with compassion. Because I think a lot of men in sports, especially that inner voice is, is very, it's, it's very harsh, you know, it's kind of like, you know, I'm not going to talk about that like, Oh, I got to suck that up. And, and you just expect that, you know, in a masculine space, that you're not allowed to be vulnerable, absolutely, that you're not allowed to to say, I'm not okay. And this is why, and this is what it looks like that you're not allowed to just process right and, and to me, as humankind, we all are entitled to be able to process, right? And it's so important to be able to find these safe spaces, and also having the responsibility of CO creating these safe spaces, right? It's everybody's responsibility to to be able to be vulnerable and and talk about things when they're difficult, especially when they're difficult, right? And so you know how it's talking about, you know, Steph and and overcoming, you know, physical circumstances and things like that, we have to overcome kind of this, this stigma and the shame that we associate with with mental health, right? And for men, that that feat can be even, even larger, because masculinity is tied to those things,
Dr. B 22:21
yes, definitely. And then also, there's that aspect too, of because of how social systems, of the of how they foresee men, there's also that aspect of ego, right? That aspect of like, I have to be a man, I have to be able to provide, I have to be able to perform, and because that's attached to the ego and the male hood of it. And another point I wanted to ask too is about, what about the commodity of you feeling like you're a commodity? I know that's a subject that I talked to with a lot of my former buddies too, is like, you know, especially within the roles of black men, and then how that could be tied to back in slavery, if you're looking at a person's physique and like, they would make a great abcdfg. Now it's applied to current day athletes as recruitment and things of that nature. I wanted to talk a little bit about the commodification of athletes. And,
Bianca McCall 23:23
man, this runs so deep. I know that you're familiar with my story of getting injured at a young age and and that's really when I had the the harsh reality check, that that I am just a commodity. You know that that I am obligated to push through. You know, pain and hurt, you know, unless you're injured or you hurt or you injured, McCall, right, and if you're if you're hurt, then you're expected to push through and to overcome, for the name on your chest, for the name on the court, for the name on the building, you know. And when you're injured, you know, you're automatically separated from your team, from success. You're separated even in just your own identity, right, and how how you perceive yourself, how you want to be perceived. So a part of my story, and really kind of what motivated me and kind of lit this fire in me, to to to return to in retirement, return to helping people with their mental health. Is, you know, being treated as as a rock star, being treated as okay, you're accepted, you're loved. We cheer for you when things are going well, but as soon as you have an off game, as soon as you know you stack up some losses as soon as you get injured and you're not able to perform to other people's standards. People in sports today, they turn on you, you know, and not, not just a Oh, we don't like you anymore. Turn on you. Like some of these, some of these guys and some of these, these women are their lives are threatened. They're. Family's lives are threatened. Their families names are being drug through the mud. Just the spotlight the media, y'all, I, I got a bone to pick with, with media? Man, yeah, no, I think, I think traditional, traditional media and traditional sports media, there's, there's a lot to, there's a lot to work on in that space. I love these types of platforms, right? And I love hearing from people that have lived experience and know, you know, the journey in sports and in competition. But then you have a lot of platforms where they don't know, right? And you brought up like, specifically, like the cultural kind of aspects, you know, the just the lack of cultural responsiveness, you know, and how we report on and how we experience, you know, sports. I think about like, a, like, a Draymond Green. And a lot of my examples are going to be basketball related, right? But, of course, but, but I think about a Draymond Green, and how, you know, he's perceived as this, like this angry, violent black man you know, without any consideration of this man you know comes from Saginaw, Michigan, you know. And in his life experiences and in his level of competitiveness, you know, we don't think about that. We think for and going back to kind of men in sports, we want you to be a beast, but not too much of a beast, you know. And we want to, we want to get your cortisol levels up here to where you're just delusional. You think you can overcome anything, but, but we don't have anything to support quarter cortisol coming down, right? And that, and you're coming down. And so, so, yeah, there's, there's a lot to be a lot to be said, you know, and brought to the light in terms of mental health and
Marcus White 26:44
sports, and I, for me, the you know, it made me think of my days of being an athlete and all the pressures that we face, and then being a man, you got to be a man. Hold everything in and you don't really express yourself again when you hurt or when you're in pain again. You don't push through it and then get even more injured and you know, but I think we definitely need to have this conversation a little longer, because our time is about to run out.
Dr. B 27:10
I know, V There's so much I wanted you to say, but before you know, we head out. I just wanted you to mention your new technology that you bring to the forefront that not could only help athletes, but the everyday person across the board. I want to give some space for you to talk about that. I appreciate
Bianca McCall 27:27
that. Yeah, no, I've been working on for the past several months and upwards of a year, training conversational AI models, because so many people use like a chat GBT and things like that, and we're seeing chat. GBT is trying to replace therapy even, you know, and, and I love the fact that people are willing to engage in new technology and not fearing it as much, but, but, ya know, I've been working on training these models so that they can engage with a little bit more safety, some guard rails, and being culturally responsive, because going back to my last point, it's so important that we acknowledge, we honor and we respectfully respond to somebody's cultural preferences, somebody's cultural makeup. So yeah, no, I appreciate you letting me talk about that. We were calling it echo. It's EC, Q, O, existential concerns questionnaire, and it's ground zero or one. So when does that launch? We're launching that. We're launching that July, in July of this year. So, and where can they find that so, so I would love for people to connect with me on social media. We have our website, echo.ai where people will be able to go and try out, test out, and even subscribe and lease some of the characters and some of the models that we've trained. And then people will even be able to train models in their own likeness, so using their own voice and in their own likeness, and monetize off that. So I'm super, super juiced about that.
Dr. B 28:56
Can you state the website one more time? It's www, dot,
Bianca McCall 28:59
E, C, Q, O, dot, a, i, there
Dr. B 29:02
you go. All right, just want to make sure people get it. Bianca, I could talk to you all day. We're gonna definitely invite you back. We just absolutely love the work that you're doing. You are definitely one of my mental health warrior just thank you for all the work that you do across the board and working also with our organization as a therapist our community so happy and lucky and blessed to have you on on our corner. So thank you.
Bianca McCall 29:29
Thank you so much. Thank you everybody for listening,
Marcus White 29:31
and we will talk to you next month. Have a good one. The urban RES is underwritten by global wave consulting international specializing in IT solutions from network penetration testing and vulnerability management to SAP basis support and web application security. Global wave helps businesses stay secure and efficient in a digital world. For more information, global wave ci.com you.