Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The environment around us is a swirling vortex of chaos, but you can navigate it when you have an anchor that can keep you steady. Each episode, Liz Herl dives into data driven strategies and real world tactics with Dr. Tim Caldwell to help you become more grounded and centered in a world that is constantly shifting and changing. Learn to effectively navigate family strife, career challenges and handle the anxiety of the unknown that the news is constantly bombarding us with. Liz is a Licensed Clinical Marriage and Family Therapist and Dr. Caldwell is a retired primary care physician and personal trainer. You can lean on their decades of experience to find stability and peace without having to control circumstances or people around you. You can be anchored in chaos.
AIC_Ep32
===
[00:00:00]
Liz Herl: Good day everyone. I don't know if it's day or night when people are listening to this. It's still morning, still morning.
Here's morning on our end.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: So, hello, hello again. And we've got something I've been working on that I of course see all the time, and I'm sure you'll be able to speak to it as well because the more I think about this my episode is more, more and more, and the trap of never being, [00:01:00] or never enough, just anything.
Not just you, but mm-hmm. Ever. There's never enough of anything.
Tim Caldwell: This is sensation. I just keep piling on more and more and more. Right.
Liz Herl: And it is talking about the constant pressure to want more, be more, do more, more, more, more. And where does that come from around You can't stop because then you're not gonna get it done.
And then there's the risk of failure. And where does all of this mentality derive from?
Tim Caldwell: Well, I'm sure you're gonna cover this a little bit, but a lot of it is instilled by observation, right? We see our parents go through it, or our grandparents and we watch people go through life. And you kind of marvel, especially when you're young, at all the things grandpa has and all the things grandma have.
And I, I've covered this before in a scenario that when successful couples raise families as they get better through their lives. And life changes. You see a new car [00:02:00] arrive every couple years and then we change and we get to a bigger house and this has got more room.
The people on the end of that, the youngest part of the family, they just think this is life. Correct. But it's the older kids who realize it didn't start like this.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And if you ask their parents, they'll tell you, look, we started out in a shoebox. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: A
Tim Caldwell: shoebox turned into a closet and a closet turned into a one bedroom and then a two bedroom, and then we got our own home.
But as we progress, we think that that's just natural to keep having stuff given to us. It's just there. Right. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And that is definitely something we're seeing and I, when I'm speaking around on not being enough, we've learned to measure our worth, our productivity and possessions. Off of honestly the highlighted reels of everyone else's lives.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely.
Liz Herl: And that is where we're maybe pulling in our information of how we are setting goals or how we're seeing stuff or putting self expectations on our, on our own mindset that [00:03:00] it puts us in such an impaired state, but we don't necessarily identify it as essentially. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So where does this all start?
I think that you definitely is it hit the
Tim Caldwell: nail on the head.
Liz Herl: That's what I'm talking about. It's carpenter doc. That's
Tim Caldwell: carpenter doc. Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: It is definitely the never nut mentality isn't born. It is taught. And I believe how that kind of comes into is when we talk about attachment and how often.
That is absolutely our emotional blueprint, that when we begin to form in our early life of how we see ourselves, how we see our successes, how we see about being productive, obedient, following the rules, things of that nature. Mm-hmm. And that also gives us an indication of how we earn love. Mm-hmm. And attention and safety.
And if I'm, in this disposition or this behavior, here's a positive outcome. And so then we kind of start forming our outline.
Tim Caldwell: My pushback on that [00:04:00] is the nurture, the nurture versus nature. You know, I, I always have some pushback and it, it's only in the discussion. I like to play the devil's advocate and ask some probative questions sometimes, but the, what I would say is this nurture versus nature thing is I believe in animals typically are very greedy.
By nature. Mm-hmm. And that is left to their own devices. If you never schooled or taught a child about limitations sharing wait, your turn they would just cons consider themselves entitled they would grow into these entitled monsters, which we do see. And I think that comes apart. That comes about because as I said, this is quite cynical, but they're not taught to slow down and in nature they are Let's say a mother kills a deer and they consume their own food. If the cub were to try to take over that kill the bear would swat the cub [00:05:00] and say, wait for me. Mm-hmm. Right. You, I'll go first and then you can have yours. What we have now is a society, and I'm not gonna compare us to bear. Or we are carnivores, but not, not that type of animal.
What I will say is that if we don't, if the lesson has never been viewed or expressed or enforced, that you will wait your turn, you will take your fair share and it will come to you when it's dulled out to you. There's a difference between earning and there's a difference between what's given to you.
But what we see now generationally is this entitlement that seems to go be just flowing So rampantly is that people think that this is mine, I deserve it, I want it, and I'll take it. Mm-hmm. And as a result, we now have these. Little monsters and these monsters grow into older monsters, and our offsprings will be monsters.
And this is what we live in today. I'm very, very cynical about it. Well, you're just full of just
Liz Herl: [00:06:00] positivity. I know. Oh my goodness. I know. And you, you ventured off and into an entitlement realm. I know. We'll talk about it. We'll, definitely. And, and I appreciate the passion. I do appreciate the passion.
Thanks. But I want to gently correct you on your outlook of nature versus nurture. Oh, okay. Go ahead. And that is, it is all lessons, all of it is a lesson. Mm-hmm. That baby cub. Knowing, getting scolded, getting redirected is being taught its place or its limitations in that moment. So it is taught on, on how to behave.
Now what I'm saying is there is a disadvantage for maybe individuals that for many individuals that they were taught love was freely given without conditions, but for many others, love has always felt like it was in an earnings position that you had to be in. My value is on how I produce directly correlates to my level of matter.
Tim Caldwell: Right. Well, I appreciate all that and I happen to believe [00:07:00] all that too. But my pushback on that is left to our own devices. All men will do evil in the lack of presence of authority or power. Meaning you can't leave us. Like kids in a candy store, you can't trust us to wait our chair. If nobody's looking, we'll try to get away with something. Make sense? Well,
Liz Herl: yes, that makes perfect sense. But it, there are lessons in everything.
Tim Caldwell: Sure. But the lesson has to be taught if there's nobody there to teach the lesson, we, the
Liz Herl: lesson is given regardless of a teacher is there or not?
Because the person who given later on, the person is given an opportunity. Sure. Even in any position they're in. Sure. To, to whether they wanna identify with right or wrong. The avenue of seeing that, well, here's a, here's the result of my consequences. Yes. But yet again, I do apologize. We have venture off.
I know. Grumpy,
Tim Caldwell: grumpy, old man. And ruining this podcast isn't not bad. It's just, it's just cynicism.
Liz Herl: So first, going back to our initial go ahead conversation [00:08:00] though. I do appreciate your outlook. Absolutely. Many of our parents came from generations marked by survival, scarcity, trauma, economic instability, and emotional restraint.
We talk a lot about that in today's society of psychotherapy.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Of emotional intelligence. If you're not able to understand a lot of the emotional feedback that's going on today because that isn't something that was necessarily given clarity in that generation.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: So one would say that's not something that was necessarily taught.
Right.
Tim Caldwell: I'm in agreement. what I would say to that is in the passage of time, and let's just use American history, generational values have declined. Right. Because we no longer have a nuclear family. Right. The absence of the male figure or the female figure.
Liz Herl: Right.
So at some point in all of this. Understanding of where many generations come from when I'm talking about economic [00:09:00] instability and emotional restraint.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: From them, hard work and achievement weren't values. They were proof of worth. And that belief quietly has been passed down. To be loved, you have to do more.
And when you talk about values and belief systems kind of going to the wayside, I think the understanding behind that is missing. I do have a belief that we have good intentions when we're doing our best as parents or mentors or caregivers from our limited capacity of understanding.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And when, what has set us back, and again, I don't want to, you know, we're kind of bouncing around here, but what has set us back was hardships. Proved resourcefulness, being able to move forward and be productive in a way like it put you in a pressure cooker to respond. Sure. Now, out of that could have come some behaviors and outlooks that weren't very beneficial and that you sure may have [00:10:00] passed down to your children.
Now, they used to be the golden rule when I was growing up. Children are to be seen and not heard. We now know how harmful that is.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: But we, as the pendulum does, we will swing one way drastically and back the other just as mm-hmm. As forceful and. When understanding that when we're talking to children, that getting their insight versus like, oh, well, I had a tough day and this person was, was really mean to me on the playground.
And it all seems very first world problems. And, and two, some parents it's like, I don't have time for this. I've gotta figure out how to, you know, put food on the table or I have to pay the bills. Yes. Or I have to mm-hmm. Go write a report or I have to go to a meeting. And the importance of all of that is, it is incredibly crucial in those moments to be like, you know, buddy, I'm really sorry.
Like that really, sometimes people just aren't nice. Mm-hmm. It's the smallest validating moment. Mm-hmm. That changes everything for a child. Sure. So being able to understand that can slow down this [00:11:00] machine of. Do more to prove you have value, or in this case, maybe be quiet to prove you have value.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: It changes that. So where is this rooted from, and I think that, again, I welcome your feedback around the industrialization and capitalist culture we're human value became tied to output.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And yes, there is a necessity to that. Mm-hmm. There, I'm not saying that that isn't productivity equaled worth to an individual.
And that became the blueprint, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. That became the blueprint of like, you must, but we do. I wanna give a fair. Insight that we do have to earn and, and make a way in life as productive as possible. But that is not your identity. I mean that it's not your identity, but we have tied it to our identities, and that's what I'm going back to, the social evolved mindset, seeped into everything and including our personal identities.
And we're seeing that everywhere today.
Tim Caldwell: Absolutely. I understand that the intent more of our discussion here is [00:12:00] for the sake of a healthy, developed young mind, right? Let's not jump right to Ebenezer's group, correct? Right. We won't go there.
Let's say ideal model, nuclear family mom and father, 2.5 kids and a dog, right? Mm-hmm. We own the home. We own a car. Some would say, well, that's kind of a fairytale nowadays. It's true. But, generationally, we would've seen that these people weren't raised in the city.
They were raised on a farm. Mm-hmm. Their responsibilities. For instance, I was raised on a horse ranch with buffalo. Everything with four feet, eight before the two feet. That's how it was. You work up at the crack of dawn, you took care of all your charges, and then you came together for, and you fed yourself and a cook shack.
Those were really rewarding days. Children don't have that exposure anymore. What they have now is dad's talking about his workload. Mm-hmm. Mom's talking about what she has to do and get home. If she's working in the home or outside the home. Everybody has extra duties now. What lesson does the [00:13:00] child take away with this?
Hopefully it's loving, it's encouraging. It's a kiss and a hug. Go out and make a new, make your way in the world and make me proud and carry on our name. What I, the only pushback I have that on is that we don't, we're not seeing a lot of that because the, the resolve has changed.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And it breaks my heart mm-hmm. To say that, but it has changed. I really do believe in what you say, we find that in the churches. Mm-hmm. We find that in people who are still not, I won't say religiously, but spiritually driven and the fundamentals of live your life in service to others.
Mm-hmm. Right. That's, that's very rewarding.
Liz Herl: Yes. Well, and I think that even in those elements, that they can have their setbacks, to be honest. They Sure can. I bet. I think it's in everything, but I think,
Tim Caldwell: like you said, the pendulum. Right. Can push too far and pretty soon you are alienated and you're on the wrong side of that.
Yeah. Right. [00:14:00] It can happen. And we're seeing quite
Liz Herl: a bit of that. Mm-hmm. But the idea that I'm, I'm sure many listeners can really resonate in, and that is we are praised for being busy. That's true. We are admired for the hustle. Absolutely. I mean, I see all the time. Absolutely. Like, you get that hustle, hustle, hustle.
When we finally pause, we feel guilty because it makes us feel lazy. We're Yeah, we're undeserving or we're not achieving, or we're not moving towards some sort of next goalpost and, you know, you're in failure mode immediately. Yeah. And that mentality is so incredibly. Destructive to an individual.
And of course I just have to add in the beautiful social media. This is the comparison machine that goes into overdrive. Absolutely. When everyone's life does look shinier and faster. Absolutely. And more accomplished when we start thinking, you know, but if I had the job and if I had that relationship if I had the house or if I had the, you know, whatever it is, I would finally be happy. Yeah. And be content.
Tim Caldwell: It's, it is that, that I'll use the word fulfillment is, becomes an unreal addiction. [00:15:00] And it's all I need is this, all I need is this and I'm gonna level up. All I need is this. And in reality, no, you don't.
What you need to do is solidify the foundation of. The mine you're in, right. You can mine deep into a mountain, but unless you support what's behind you, it will all come crashing down behind you. You can't just keep chasing, chasing, chasing. Mm-hmm. At some point you have to reinforce, and that is not only for the people in your charge, your children and the family around you.
Right. It's for you yourself. Right. You have to remind yourself that it's, it's not beneficial to keep wanting, wanting, wanting.
Liz Herl: That as we grow, our early attachment experiences turn into internal narratives. Yep. And we stop needing someone else to say, do better.
You need to do this, right? Yeah. You need to correct this. And we start doing it to ourselves. Mm-hmm. Relentlessly.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And it can,
Tim Caldwell: we're always cruelest to ourselves. Oh,
Liz Herl: absolutely. And of course I wanna talk about, that's what we're talking about, where [00:16:00] that mindset comes from. Yeah. It could sound like if I'm not accomplishing something, I'm wasting my time.
Or, you should have made time for that, or you could have fit that in. Or how did I wonder how that, made them feel there's all this. Overdrive for everybody else's needs and wants being met at your own demise, your own
Tim Caldwell: expense. Yeah, you bet.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. So, psychologists call this conditional self-worth, which means that the idea of love and belonging and safety depend directly on your performance.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And if you're not in whatever level of performance you're viewing from, of your level of expectations, again, you're constantly in failure mode. Yeah. The moment there's a look or a sigh or a stated dissatisfaction, everything you created and you built mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: You
Liz Herl: demolish by that one. Yeah. Feedback versus like, okay, wait a minute.
That's true. I could have maybe let somebody down or not completed something, but that's not the [00:17:00] whole of this person.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: I'm fallible, right? Mm-hmm. Like this idea of imperfection is so unrealistic. Yeah. But we don't think like that. We really unintentionally just hand over the will of our lives to someone else, depending on their validation, which kind of, goes back to looking at the reels and the shinier parts of life.
Another psychologist called the hedonic treadmill. The tendency to quickly return to a baseline level of happiness no matter what we achieve if we get the raise or we get a new cell phone, or we get a house, or whatever it is, we are quickly to diminish that as a success.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: it's the little things that have so much joy in them. Yeah. That we just, they're, they're not even recognized.
Tim Caldwell: It's lost too. Remember that as a coach and a trainer, and hopefully. Motivation and inspiration to the people who might come to me.
All of this is fleeting, but people would come to me and they'd have this sense of dread. I have [00:18:00] so much to do. I have so much to do, but I'll tell them to stick it out because at some point I'm gonna ask us to stop and we're gonna stop, and we're gonna turn and look back and go, look how far we've come.
And the attitude of gratitude needs to be paramount. Mm-hmm. It has to be paramount. If you, if you can never see that you making great steps in your life, even small you're, you'll never have, you'll always have this sense of emptiness. You'll never have a sense of fulfillment. Correct. Correct. I tell people, fitness, mental health, relationships career. It's brick by brick. Mm-hmm. Come in and do the boring things every day. And in a month, in three months, in six months, you look and you go, wow, that's, that's a little different. Mm-hmm. now, I, I went from a, a desk to a small office, went from a small office to a corner office, whatever.
Mm-hmm. If that's the corporate world, the other would be, I've lost 10 pounds this month, but in six [00:19:00] months I lost 50 pounds. Mm-hmm. I can bench press a hundred pounds when I met you, and I can bench 300 pounds now. Whatever the goal is incrementally, we have to be able to weigh where did I start and where am I headed.
And in all that, give yourself the benefit of the doubt. You did this on your own, you earned this. And for this to happen, you have to give yourself gratitude.
Liz Herl: Agreed. And I think that as we keep striving, I don't think it's, I think there is a false narrative out there. It is not necessarily because we're greedy or ambitious by nature, but I do believe that within ourselves, we have, we've tried to recreate the feeling of being seen and valued.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And loved. And if I just keep striving, eventually they're gonna see me, they're gonna see me, they're gonna see me, and we're chasing the warmth of approval. We don't even know if we'll ever receive. Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: I mean, you're seeking the acknowledgement of people who don't know you.
They don't care about you. Right. The opposite Side of the coin is the insecurity to go work out in [00:20:00] a gym where people don't want to go. Everybody's looking at me, nobody's looking at you. Nobody cares. Mm-hmm. They're all looking at themselves in the mirror.
Right. They don't really care. But on the flip side, when you start doing really well, people go, wow, what'd you do?
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: What are you doing? Tell me. Those are great things and you should really take those in as positive motivation and inspiration because that won't last. Mm-hmm. You have to constantly rekindle is so, constantly have to rekindle that.
Liz Herl: So the problem honestly is not ambition. Ambition is excellent. We should all have levels of ambition for our own individualized, propelling into mm-hmm. Whatever the next step is for yourself. Mm-hmm. And growth is beautiful. You really want to continue to do that. Yeah. However, the danger does lie in the chronic dissatisfaction that comes from believing that we're always behind.
Yeah. And I'll tell you, I am the Pohto Kuhn, the kettle black there. Mm-hmm. I will be as, as real as I've always been, is when I go to look at my to-do list or whatever I have on my plates, not plate. Mm-hmm. I would love to have one plate, [00:21:00] but my plates, I unintentionally sometimes start pulling on more plates and more plates because this, it is some type of, okay, well I need to get this and then this, and then this.
And I, it does take pause for me to say, wait a minute. Like, what are you doing? Yep. To you. Absolutely. Like, and everyone thinks that's selfish, right? Yeah. Like, okay, well hey great. You know, you do need to do this. You do need, yes, there are core things you absolutely need to do. Sure. However, this,
continuous, you know, mountain you're building of, of plates, you're spinning is not necessarily
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: It's not necessary. Actually. It's
Tim Caldwell: not necessary. And that's the point I always wanna make about having and wanting. You can have nice things in time. You can want nice things, irrational time.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Most of the things, you've heard me say this plenty of times. One thing at a time.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Sure. There are some plates you have to keep spending life. Mm-hmm. Career, family, home, and then you dial down into that, I need to get groceries, I need to [00:22:00] take care of my car, I need to, all of these things, these are plates.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: But in the rander scheme is I need a new car. Mm-hmm. I need a new no. Stick with what you have. Mm-hmm. Work towards the new car, work towards the new goal incrementally. And then when it's time, pull the trigger. My. Point about putting all this out there is simply that it's unrealistic and it's unfair because it's an artificial pressure you put yourself under.
There's no reason for this. Correct. So there's no reason for it.
Liz Herl: In speaking to that the, the statement I wrote out when I was writing this up is it's an endless loop of striving without savoring so. Okay, but what's wrong with my car?
I have, you know? Mm-hmm. Well, it may not have all the shiny gadgets on it, and it may not, you know, show me that there's 14 cameras around my car and it shows me all the other cars coming up and all that jazz. Like, it, it may not have all the, the new elements on it, but does it get me to my job? Right. You know, am I not [00:23:00] under and oh my heavens, I don't even wanna say a $800 a month payment.
Right. It's not the shiniest Right. It's not the newest, but it gets me to where I need to go. It's safe. Yeah. It's dependable.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And when we think about that, it's like, man, I'm really grateful for that and I'm grateful that I don't have an $800 car payment. Absolutely.
And that's the breakdown. And I just wanted to, you know, pull that out for a minute. Sure. That when I'm saying like, savor what you have and don't add more stress. We are so outsourced in always wanting more. And this is, the kickback to everything we're talking about here is we are in a constant need of gratification and achieving the next higher ring and whatever that is.
Right. Versus stopping and saying, I am so stressed out. Yeah. Like, I have no more I can take on, I just can't do it. But we just say, Nope. Pack it on, pack it on, pack it on. So where does that belief come from? And that's what we're talking about
Tim Caldwell: practices and use for this Liz are I have pro Kuhn pro con's list.
Sometimes I physically write them [00:24:00] out on a tablet. Is it a have to have this? Is it a need, a need to have this? Is it a want?
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: And that is pros and cons. I really don't need a flashy car. I'm driving 15 minutes. I park in a downstairs garage. Nobody sees me. Would it be nice to have a nice car?
Sure. But I don't need it. Mm-hmm. What do I, or excuse me, I, I want it, but it's not necessarily a need. But now what you really do need, I need good tires. I need to have a sound engine. Mm-hmm. It needs to be safe. It needs to be secure. That crack in the windshield, they better fix it before breaks.
Those are absolutes. So the plates that you do spin, you have to address and prioritize the ones that are most important.
Liz Herl: Right. But you have to. Evaluate what you're prioritizing as the most important. Sure.
Tim Caldwell: As we approach life and career, your life will be inundated with that. It never ends.
Nope. Never ends. And you know, I, I tell people, quite frankly, if you are a career minded person, mind you, the higher the ladder up you go, the more plates you're gonna spin.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: The higher up the ladder you go, [00:25:00] the further you have to fall. Mm-hmm. So make sure you're doing what you do. And if it's not for you, level off bro.
Level off.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. And I think it is important that we have goals. I talk about goals all the time. If somebody does want a new car, okay, how do I make that an achievable goal? How do I build up for that? If I traded in my car, how much money would I need for a down payment to have a reasonable car payment? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. Versus everything being immediate gratification.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And I must have it now because this harm really runs deep within us. We see it in burnout, anxiety your quiet self-doubt that screams to you in the middle of the night when you're trying to close your eyes. You're not doing enough, you're behind. Well you, this person's mad at you. You
Tim Caldwell: mentioned it already.
Social media is. I call it fake book. Mm-hmm. We see all of these influencers on Instagram. You know, if you really, you don't have to dig very deep. These guys that are stand in front of Lamborghinis, it's not their Lamborghini, it's Right. It's not their house. Mm-hmm. That's not, none of that is theirs.
What they're doing is they put on this image and you think you can do this, and they [00:26:00] may sell you a you know, a big bag of tricks and promises, but in the end, you don't get any of those things. It all comes down to your hard work and what you're willing to put in it. And by the way, if it's not a passion of yours, you won't pursue it very far.
Well, generally you have to find, sometimes that passion has to develop, motivation and inspiration are fleeting.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: You have to find those things that really speak to you. What do you wanna do? Speak to yourself. Be honest. And remember, I have people who come to me of all ages and all shapes and sizes, and sometimes their goals are lofty ones.
Mm-hmm. It's not hard to reach those lofty things, but incrementally, you know what? Let it put just Park two years into this plan. Mm-hmm. Well, I don't wanna wait that long. Well, you're not gonna get there any safer. I can speed you there, but the chances of making there safely are far less likely.
You're gonna get injured or you're gonna get sick, or you're gonna be malnutritioned or something that, that's, that's my side of the house. But the same is true in a career.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: You [00:27:00] can do all you want. You can climb the ladder as fast as you want when you get to the top and you start looking around and you think, wow, this
Liz Herl: sucks.
Right. Well, we also see this in relationships strained by comparison of their own self-worth. Right. That then does hinge on external validation. In relationships. We're now pushing the responsibility of security onto our partners solely Yeah. Versus having a secure self. And saying how do we operate within that relationship?
But we are definitely seeing that continuously happen and that does feed from this engineered mindset
Tim Caldwell: mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: Of not feeling lovable or enough Yeah. Or I'm not, you know, I'm not doing the most I can.
Tim Caldwell: That's an interesting point, Liz and I, you know, the one thing, let's reflect on this just a minute, is two career-minded people who, let's say share a common domicile, and then they go out and they work in the world to come back together.
They're of similar. Stresses similar types. Mm-hmm. They're out trying to make [00:28:00] something, maybe self-employed, maybe employed, but at least when they come home, they realize, I've been doing my thing, you've been doing your thing. We come back together. I think it's more taxing when it's not like that. I think it's a bit more taxing, especially if you have a really career minded individual, married to a person who's a very much a home style person, and you may not be that white picket fence type of person.
But in that life, the conflict will always be, well, you're never available, you're always working
Liz Herl: mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: See, so I would say that there's probably always gonna be conflict in that too. Right. That's hard to resolve unless you both get on the same track and say, this is why we're doing this.
Liz Herl: Well, I think that I differ in that viewpoint, only in the fact that whether it be a homestyle individual working out in any type of business world, or in blue collar doesn't matter.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: That shift in that dynamic, it's when comparison comes in, that's immediately insecurity about the other individual.
Look how much more I'm doing than you are doing. I did this. Yeah, that's hard. You didn't do that, and you get lost in this [00:29:00] tug of war. And that directly correlates to about, to returning to what we're talking about Yeah. Is I need you to see me and value me and validate me. Constantly because I don't believe me and validate me.
Yeah. Yeah. And think that I'm, I'm doing the best that I can, right? Mm-hmm. And when you fail me, you fail us. And that's a very unhealthy mentality.
Tim Caldwell: That's a, but it is. That's a good point. I love that phrase. I'm doing the best I can. Mm-hmm. Are you, I mean, are you yes. My
Liz Herl: cynical
Tim Caldwell: one that I'm
Liz Herl: aware that
Tim Caldwell: you're, I know, I know.
But, but you know that this is, these are fair, these are fair topics to talk about and it's good to have some cynicism to it. You know, I, I love the fact that you're always positive about most of this, Liz, but I think the thing that throws interest into the conversation is, as an old saying, you never said you never see a red flag when you're wearing pink glasses.
That's true. If we don't, if we always see things in a positive light, we'll never see some of the dangers that are ahead. We don't see a [00:30:00] stop sign. 'cause it doesn't look stopped to me. Look, it, look red to me because I'm wearing the wrong colored glasses. I want people to just understand that.
Anticipating that there will always be problems, and there should be. Well, you should be earning it, right?
Liz Herl: Correct. And I, I, it almost speaks a little indirectly as to what I'm, I'm speaking to here, and that is mm-hmm. Our mindset around our worth and our value and not appreciating what we have and who we are as an individual.
Directly impacts every facet of your life. And saying, you know, earn more, do more, be more in limited form. Form, yes, you do need to do those things. But we have to be cautious of that mentality into what cost of self is involved. So, the problem is when Leavenworth are tied to achievement, we never feel safe to simply be.
I think about that all the time with individuals. Like, when's the last time you like, just took a breath? And I know that sounds pretty cliche because everyone's like, oh, take a deep breath. [00:31:00] No. I mean just like, okay, like, alright, I got, I, I'm doing pretty well. Like your life could be in shambles. And you're like, but you know what, I'm still here.
Yeah. I'm sticking it out. Yeah. I'm, you know what? Good for me. Yeah. Good for me. Yeah. And that's not selfish. That's encouragement. You bet of saying, well, maybe someone never encouraged me in my life. Sometimes I have to learn to be my own cheerleader. You
Tim Caldwell: bet.
Liz Herl: And I have to believe that, yeah, I'm doing the best that I can with the instruments that I have in my life.
Tim Caldwell: Even if it's artificial.
Liz Herl: Just,
Tim Caldwell: you know, could you just give yourself a break and little pat on the back, sit down and have a cup, co cup of coffee. Look what I had accomplished today. Right? Look what I got done this week. Wow. I did something I didn't think I could do, right? I'm halfway through a project I didn't wanna do, and I see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Keep keep looking for the, the positive. I know that's probably strange to hear me say something positive again. Hey, it's, but I think it's important. I just really remember that, remember that on my side of the house and because I have very conservative [00:32:00] values that, and the fact you repeat that.
I know, but you know what? It's not all that popular anymore. And coming from a military background, you need to be. Situationally aware.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm. And
Tim Caldwell: part of that is be realistic. Sure. And that is you're taking on a big, let's say you're taking on something you've never done before and you've never had the confidence, you don't have the finances or the education you're taking on a big step.
Doesn't mean you can't do it though. Absolutely not. And that's why you lean on others and take the criticism, take the education, take all you can.
Liz Herl: Well, I think you, you learn to, like I said, believe in yourself. We see in adults who can't rest without guilt. Like Yeah, I feel guilty for rest. I am again, Pohto calling the kettle black.
Sometimes if I'm like, oh my God, I've been sitting here for like an hour. What have I been doing? Mm-hmm.
In high achievers, they look for confidence, but feel completely empty inside. Mm. And they give the masquerade of achievement. And self security and confidence in reality, they're shaking inside the terror of [00:33:00] uncertainty.
Imposters, right? Absolutely imposters. And in people who fear failure, not because of what it means professionally, but because it triggers an old wound of that feeling of being unlovable when we fall. You bet. When we fall short.
Tim Caldwell: You bet.
Liz Herl: So the cycle continues. We just continue with the belief system and the mindset.
We keep teaching the next generation that love is something to be earned.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, and
Liz Herl: it's not an intentional malicious act. It's, this is all I know. So what I'm educating others is learn more.
Yeah. You are more, and you don't have to stick with what you have been taught. You can learn. More you can relearn how to Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: Well, some of the hardest things to do especially things that are involved in process and higher learning, higher centers of learning, frontal cortex type stuff. One of the hardest aspect is to unlearn.
And that is, you've been taught this. And then you find out in yourself, [00:34:00] wait a second, that's not true. Or you start to question or you start very good. Mm-hmm. So as you start to undo all those things to that point, that's very beneficial. But to that point that you made earlier
old wounds can be laid bare. Mm-hmm. With just an innocent slip of the tongue an innocent comment even from people. You thought were in your corner.
Liz Herl: Yeah.
Tim Caldwell: Hey, I thought you'd be further or you haven't got that job yet,
Liz Herl: mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: You have to evaluate. The sense of dread it needs to come from within. Strength comes from within. You can look as far and wide as you can. You can get all the answers, but unless it comes from you, you have to understand that your processes have to encapsulate all the things that's good for you.
That take you where you want to go.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: In its own time, in its own speed, patiently, safely, securely, without sacrificing loved ones and relationships and careers health. We can't afford all that. Oh, right. You have to do all these things when you speak [00:35:00] about how these old wounds and these things from the past can sabotage her.
They absolutely can. And almost anybody who's good at what they do, they realize their vulnerable spots.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. You're the people that love you the most know you, how to hurt you.
Tim Caldwell: The people who will hurt you most are the people who are closest to you.
Liz Herl: Yep.
Tim Caldwell: Because they know Right. Where the, they
Liz Herl: know where
Tim Caldwell: the wounds lie. They know that. They know where that belly is. Right. Yeah.
Liz Herl: And so that is the good news though. Mm-hmm. This cycle can be unlearn. There's good news list. Yes. See, there's good news. I am always full of good news. Oh, you on the other hand.
Hey. Um. Healing and this is so important. I've spoken of this several times on the podcast before, and I will always speak to this, and that is there has been a false I would say description of individuals going into therapy and therapy, blaming everything on the parents. You're this way because your parents, okay, so there, there's a lot more information to that statement than the full context of what that means.
That's a negative indication there. Versus healing doesn't mean blaming your parents. It means [00:36:00] understanding them and that they too were being shaped and teaching you with their own unmet needs ever being identified. And in
Tim Caldwell: their own time too. In their own time, right? Yes.
Liz Herl: So even now when I share with others healthier mentalities and how to look for a secure self or I would say healed to find that secure self, it is.
Really, really challenging for their family system of parents and grandparents and great-grandparents in their life because they're like, what are you talking about? Like, I don't understand. Even the level of compassion and the awareness, they're kind of like, we didn't, we don't really talk about our feelings unrelatable or disappointment.
But I can tell you it, it has sparked, and it's been an honor of my life. To hear people go back, talk to their family, and then they start having conversations of, you know, I never ever talked about this before. Mm-hmm. This is, it's uncomfortable because I didn't know we could talk like this. Mm-hmm.
And [00:37:00] you're beginning to unravel in some ways, I would say maybe more pack areas of injuries that enlighten you to why they operated the way they did. It is not an excuse, it is not a scapegoat. It gives you an understanding, which is what I was speaking to. Oh, now I know why you always did that.
Mm-hmm. Not that it was okay. Never. Okay. But I can understand the poor reaction you had because of this experience. Oh my goodness. I never knew you went through that. I hear that a lot where people are like, oh my gosh, I had no idea of that. My mom or my dad. It had gone through this situation or tragedy Yeah.
Or whatever it is. And that gives me some pause now. Yeah. I, and I just think it's compassionate.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. If you would've had that conversation 10 years ago, that's 10 years of closeness, you've lost.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Because you didn't realize that, right. That was a bridge you didn't think existed, but all you had to do was cross it.
Tony Robbins famous quote, first time I ever saw him pebble Beach, California. The quality of your life is only as good as your quality of conversation. [00:38:00] Mm-hmm. Your life will only be as good as you let people know and you communicate. Correct. Right.
What do you need, clearly? Mm-hmm. What do I want, clearly? Mm-hmm. What do you need? Clearly. When you stipulate clearly what you're looking for how can I help you? Those things. We are not going to do this alone. Nobody is gonna do this alone.
Liz Herl: Yeah. Nobody gets out alive, that's for sure. That's right. And I think that when you talk about that, one of the things that I, give caution to is that. Yeah. There are the other side of this that I've seen where people want to step into those open conversations and you have to know your audience. Yeah.
Some people that are very stagnant or rigid in their wound are resistant to being open-minded.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And so they're so closed off, no matter how you try and soften yourself. I call it the one down position a lot in therapy to open up the dialogue. They can't meet you there. Mm-hmm. And that isn't a failure of [00:39:00] yours or of theirs.
Yeah. That's the uneducated part of communication Yeah. On both sides of I'm trying to reach you and it's almost like you're speaking Mandarin and it makes me very uncomfortable.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: Because I don't know how to engage you and then I'm gonna be defensive. I'm going to utilize deflection or blame talk or something of that nature.
Mm-hmm. Because it rattles me for a reason though. It's because you're touching on something I don't know how to talk about. Yeah. Right. Right. So I, I, I didn't mean to say about there. The other
Tim Caldwell: is not just the subject, it's the relevance and time mm-hmm.
For the, the talk. Mm-hmm. Your approach towards speaking to somebody about something that's really important to you.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: Maybe nothing to them. Correct. They're unaware. But if you just come up and go, Hey, Jack, I wanna talk to you while you're such a jackass, that's not gonna go far. You're, you're probably just gonna ruffle feathers and things are gonna fall apart.
But if you could go, you know, have a cup of coffee, sit down and say, can I tell you something? Have you always been like this? [00:40:00] Or Is there something I did to you to upset you? Or if you try to uncover, maybe they're unaware, maybe they're, you know, the uh, grumpy old man get off my lawn, kind of thing.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Maybe they're unaware. Mm-hmm. And they just want to have a candid conversation, but they're defensive too. Mm-hmm. So, well,
Liz Herl: and it's generally whenever a direct encounter is, that's why I say the skill of communication is a skill by the way.
Tim Caldwell: It's Yep.
Liz Herl: That how we engage with one another to open up that dialogue is,
imperative of how you do that. 'cause if it's too direct, it's gonna go defensive and things of that nature.
Tim Caldwell: My, my father taught me this is, you can call, I won't use his language. Yeah. That's not, but you can, you can use, you can call a man anything if you use tact. Right. If you approach and you acknowledge his, his, his, I'm not
Liz Herl: gonna disagree with your thought process there, his position, but don't think it's healthy at all, just so you know.
But what I'm, what I'm
Tim Caldwell: saying is you can talk about anything as [00:41:00] long as there's tact mm-hmm. And respect in that and Well, I don't
Liz Herl: think you can really assume respect. If you're trying to call somebody anything, you can Well, that's where we differ. So, um, yeah, you can, but understanding when all of these actions happen and trying to create, a mindset for yourself the practice of a secure self attachment, this means learning to give yourself.
The affirmation that you sought out externally. It's kinda like saying I'm proud of myself even when I'm not productive. Mm-hmm. Or I'm not enough, or when, you know, I'm not still a, a more, I would say relatable. One would be sometimes say you're a job seeker and you're having a very hard time financially and you're looking for a job and you haven't had that successful interview just yet and it's feel really daunting and it's just overwhelming and you don't feel like you're succeeding at any turn.
One of the encouraging ideas is that you are consistently doing something to progressively move yourself along the line in some fashion [00:42:00] and sitting back and saying, you know, it's not for nothing. I applied for. 40 jobs this week. And that's something in itself, and maybe you haven't achieved the job yet, but your effort and your energy and your person matters.
Mm-hmm. So when I say reflecting back on what you have done versus what you haven't accomplished necessarily the job or anything of that nature. Mm-hmm. Like how we think about things is everything. And as parents, the awareness becomes a gift to your children. I definitely think that I have tried to hone in on my own skill sets in my parenting style as I've learned more about myself and how I communicate and I do believe it is a gift to give your children because I do celebrate curiosity with them.
A lot of like, why do you think that? What is that? And I absolutely think it is important to hold them in their failures as well as their successes. It's not always, you hug them close when they're winning and you hug them close when they're not on top. Mm-hmm. And you let them know that that is [00:43:00] consistent and safe and reliable and you're rewriting, the generation of conditional love.
Mm-hmm. Like you get to teach differently because you relearn something. Yeah, you do.
Tim Caldwell: That's true.
Liz Herl: So how do we shift, how do we step off the treadmill and anchor ourselves in the present? Well, you kind of touched on both of these things and that's the awareness and noticing the patterns of thought that tell you your life should look a certain way.
Ask yourself, and this is so important, whose definition of success? Am I living by, is it yours or your parents, or your boss or your kids, or whoever. Is it not you? And that might be a little fearful because it's like, well, I don't think I've ever thought about living off my own definition of success.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well, you have to be strong enough to, if you're gonna look in the mirror, you have to decide too, is, am I strong enough to accept this? Maybe it's me. Mm-hmm. If you've been through [00:44:00] 12 different relat relationships, they all say, I'm a jerk. Maybe you're a jerk. Have you talked about it?
Have you, Have you asked yourself? Are you being honest? Mm-hmm. You gotta be honest. Those are the tough questions.
Liz Herl: And the, next area I'm gonna touch on you just in, in the practice of gratitude mm-hmm. Is so lost today. Just to be grateful. It's not a buzzword. I know everyone talks about it a lot, but.
The utilization in your mind and action to others is imperative. gratitude brings your attention to what is rather than what is missing.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And that is really important. I think. I was sharing with you last week or so, I just kinda sat in my house and I was just, I just had this, I'm just grateful no matter what, I'm just, I'm just gonna try and be grateful.
Through challenges and changes. The world is in its own, I call it upside down space right now. I feel like the world's upside down chaos list. Yeah. That's, yes. It's in chaos. It is in chaos. Mm-hmm. That's a fair definition. Mm-hmm. And I think that everyone is at risk [00:45:00] of being inundated constantly by social media or outlets or communication or conversations.
Excuse me. And, yeah. How do you slow all that down in your mind? Yeah. And just hear your own voice or hear God's voice. I gotta declutter because all of this overwhelms me. And again, can't take on anymore. I can't do anymore. You're right. I can't. So I'm just gonna Yeah.
Slow pace it for a minute. But again, this is a hard thing. If you haven't addressed some of the things we've already spoken about. You have to learn to redefine progress. Sometimes doing more. And I think that is the more, more, more mentality versus doing what matters most and taking time and saying, oh, I know I need to do this.
And I, I know I promised this person I was gonna do this, but today I'm gonna squash all that and I'm gonna carve pumpkins with my kids or Yeah. You know, and it's like, but you're not letting the world down. Yeah. That's, you see what I'm saying? That
Tim Caldwell: that's all sabotage, that's all self-talk you do to yourself.
Mike, you're, you are right about the gratitude thing. [00:46:00] Young people today have this notion that they're not satisfied with what they have, all they can focus on is what they don't have. That's, that is not only taxing, that is an endless infinite hole. Mm-hmm. And you gotta stop, you gotta stop digging.
Everybody thinks that debt is all related to finance. Debt can be related to your social, it can be related to your spiritual, your religious, all. You stop digging. You need to stop, evaluate, take a chair, have a cup of coffee, write out a list. What's good, what's bad? What can I do to make things a little better?
You know what I don't need the, the newest set of Michael Jordan tennis shoes. Mm-hmm. I just don't. Mm-hmm. Why don't I, why don't, why don't I take the family on a trip? Why don't I just let's all and in your own mind, believe me, you know, as well as I do as a business owner.
Well, you're away. It feels like the world's on fire and you, oh my gosh, everything's, but you know, you're gonna come back and it's gonna be all right. Mm-hmm. And you [00:47:00] get a little chance for your, at least your family, to see you decompress a little bit. But as one of my father's favorite sins, you can work as hard as you want.
There'll be work tomorrow.
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: You're never gonna be done with it. So just take your time, breathe a little, and try to find some good things along the way. Try to find some really Pohto. When's the last time you connected with your best friend?
Liz Herl: Mm-hmm.
Tim Caldwell: When's the last time you sat around a fire and.
Marshmallows. Mm-hmm. Hot tub. It is the simple things. It is the simple things
Liz Herl: because here's the truth, you're not behind, not as behind as you might think. You're not failing for taking a break, taking a breather and just sitting for a few minutes. Mm-hmm. Collecting yourself. Mm-hmm. And you are most definitely not less because others presume to have more.
That's right. Because it is a presumption. And if we slow down and we realize that so much of what we're chasing, we actually already have, if we were to slow down and [00:48:00] look at connection and your, your own potential and learning. I really am doing enough. Like I'm really doing enough. Yeah. I'm not, doing anything.
Yeah. That's the other side. Like I am doing something. Yeah. And you do, you should be doing something. Like I said, ambition is important, but I think that as we wrap up here,
Tim Caldwell: you know what Liz, the interesting thing about that is when I say about stop digging is that oftentimes many of the successes we have are when you've had to take either forcefully or by choice a few steps back.
Yes. Right? Yes. I always say sometimes I don't, I can't make the jump unless I take a few steps back to get a running start. Mm-hmm. I literally have to fall back a little bit so I can run harder. And that's recoup in your health.
You are typically more aware of what's really going on instead of what you think is going on. And those, those, this is how you attract. Success mm-hmm. Is sometimes you just have to stop and [00:49:00] go, it's not so bad. What we got isn't so bad. Now let's next three months we're gonna start on something new.
Mm-hmm. But no, let's quit with all the running around. You know, you're Liz. As parents, we play taxi, right? Yes. I gotta get up, I get these kids gone, I gotta get out the door and I'm taxiing 'em over here and taxi. And then after school I gotta stop my job and go get That is a hectic, hectic life. Mm-hmm. But in the end with their cooperation by letting them know today we're not doing that.
Mm-hmm. Today's the day off. You guys play with your friends. I'm gonna clean the house, whatever, decompress. You'll find me on the patio reading my book. Mm-hmm. Okay. Mom, they're okay with it too.
Liz Herl: Oh sure. Absolutely.
Tim Caldwell: Bring 'em into it.
Liz Herl: There is. You know, the reason of saying everything, or for sharing everything we're talking about is through chaos.
You can anchor yourself. That's the idea behind the whole name of [00:50:00] this or this podcast is no matter what that in it, you can find strength. Mm-hmm. And growth and understanding, because whether we like it or not, chaos continues.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And hard times happen.
We kind of sometimes set ourselves up in our own thought processes that the world is against us, when we have a series of unfortunate events that compound one, right after the other, it's like, why is this all happening to me?
But prospectively, you've had a series of events in a very small timeline that has happened to you. And this isn't your whole life. This is just this moment.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm. And
Liz Herl: now you have to figure out how to get through this moment and what can you do and then it's like, okay, so But you don't understand.
My whole life has been hard. Yes. Because life is hard. Mm-hmm. And so I'm sure you've had series of events before that it's like, why does this keep happening? Because it is called life.
Tim Caldwell: Mm-hmm.
Liz Herl: And we have to learn to persevere and learn to [00:51:00] be stronger within all of that with a healthy mindset. So my.
Leading you with a thought, I guess, okay. Mm-hmm. Is if your worth was never tied to what you produce, how differently would you live? And that is in all of us. And I think that it's a pretty open statement. I would say if your worth was never tied to what you produce, because we do need to work, we do need to earn a way of life.
Mm-hmm. But at what cost and expense and what are you driving for and who are you driving for? And if you weren't in that mentality, I wonder, I wonder how life would look for you.
Tim Caldwell: Mine, Liz is always when I ask people to take care of themselves. But part of being a part of something bigger than you in service to others is it's the greatest honor.
You have to find how you can be of service to others, but be genuinely, genuinely [00:52:00] involved in what you do because people will look for you and in your absence they'll look for you. You have to be able to provide comfort. Yeah. Sometimes it's just sitting.
Liz Herl: Oh, it's absolutely, I
Tim Caldwell: I,
I have of all my male friends, sometimes these conversations are difficult, embarrassing.
They're very revealing. They may tear down years of lies or something, and you need to become their confidant and they're absolute confident and in that, that's of service to them. So that they know that they do have a place to come to be real. Mm-hmm. And you get to be a part of their success.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. That's,
Tim Caldwell: That's, there's nothing more satisfying.
Liz Herl: Absolutely. Right. That's a great understanding. Mm-hmm. And perhaps the goal isn't to have more, but to feel anchored in what we already have.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And in the ordinary, which I think everyone thinks of that's so ordinary, the quiet, the beautiful, [00:53:00] imperfect life you already have.
Yeah. You are already living.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah.
Liz Herl: And no matter all of its imperfections that you see every day, there's so much beauty in it. And the bravest thing we can do in a world that demands more is to say, you know what? I think I am enough and I have enough. Yeah, absolutely. There's enough. Absolutely. There's enough.
Yeah, absolutely. This, this unintentional, greedy mentality that we're spreading throughout the world and, and understandings of needing more, being more, seeing, more being seen, and mm-hmm. Whatever I think you might wanna reevaluate if that's Yeah. A mindset of yours, because that's a pretty exhausting one.
And, so much of our drive isn't about ambition, it is about safety. We all, that's all we all really wanna feel is safe. We just wanna feel safe. Yeah. In company with people, you know, there's so many different previews I will watch when I'm trying to scroll and see on my platforms what show I wanna watch.
There's so much dramatized about betrayal all the [00:54:00] time. Sure. It's Hollywood's highlight is, you know, never trust anyone. Everyone's out to get you. The world is full of evils and there's a lot of facts to that, don't get me wrong, but be careful what you put in front of your eyes too. Yeah. Because that feeds your mentality as well.
Tim Caldwell: So says the queen of crime shows, listen,
Liz Herl: Dateline and I have an exclusive understanding. But anyhow, you're absolutely right though it is important we can realize we don't have to keep earning our right to rest. We can just belong and be loved and. Maybe perhaps you were always and not fu just never taught it.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. That's beautiful.
Liz Herl: Well, that's all I got everybody. I hope that this resonates within you and you brought you some insight. I know we kind of went off track a few times, but the overall outlook is, I hope you understand that you can create a secure self attachment and understanding within who you are.
If you don't know what the skill sets are or even how to begin that cognitive [00:55:00] process, I always urge anyone to seek out psychotherapy individuals that are in your life that are strong supports. Your youth pastors or just church pastors or anyone in that nature that would be a source that would help you maybe find a healthier path.
Tim Caldwell: Yeah. Well this, I always appreciate it. I'm glad you allow me to dabble in. Some of the things that I put forth. It's nice that we shoot from the hip here, right? Always. We have a little, you, you take the time to kind of write out some, some things. But when we sit here and we speak it, people get to just hear us speak.
Mm-hmm. And we have conversations like this all the time. That's what fosters the interest to do the podcast. But I appreciate all that we have here and there's no apologies to the people that we haven't been able to put out much here lately. Work is work, and this is work and this is work.
This is one of those things that until we find a way to monetarily make it pay for ourself, we kind of have to prioritize the times that we do these. [00:56:00] But we very much have. Enjoy this and we will continue to do this because I think people enjoy just having a conversation like that. And you're good at it.
it's fun to go back and forth about stuff like this.
Liz Herl: Yes. And it's good to know when I'm right. Alright, well, yeah.
Tim Caldwell: No, and that's how we're getting in that show.
Liz Herl: All right, everyone, please take care of yourselves as Dr. Caldwell always shares. And remember to take time for yourself and take it easy.
You're not, you're not doing so bad. You're doing pretty great.
Tim Caldwell: Make sure that they visit you on your podcast.
Liz Herl: Yes, please. Go to our social medias, our Instagrams, and YouTube. You'll find all of our, you can go to our website@inanchoringchaos.org and listen to all of our episodes there.
Tim Caldwell: And you can catch me on the other side of the house.
That's genuine effort. LLC email and on, I guess YouTube, right? Nope, web on the web. Yeah, on the web. Whatever. I'm old.
Liz Herl: All right, everyone. Take care. We appreciate you
Tim Caldwell: guys. Bye-Bye. [00:57:00]