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Passionate about modern feminist issues? Want to learn more about how today's political, academic, and cultural leaders strive for a future of universal equality and justice?
Join NOW in a podcast dedicated to intersectional feminist discussions in American society with leaders in entertainment, sports, politics, and science. From conversations on constitutional equality, to economic justice and reproductive rights, listeners will find new ways to learn, engage, and get empowered.
Listen for new episodes released every other Wednesday.
Shelby Von Hofe (00:02)
Eldest daughter that's like inherent feminism. It's like you have no choice.
Kim Villanueva (00:13)
Hello and welcome to Feminism Now. I'm Kim Villanueva and I'm the new president of the National Organization for Women and I'm so excited to be bringing you a new season of our show along with our vice president, Rose Brunache. Every four years, Now elects new leadership and with that new leadership comes both changes and opportunities. We of course wanted to continue the podcast and we thought we would use this opportunity to talk about where feminism has been in the past and where it is now in this moment.
And of course, we want to talk about what feminism is to NOW, to the National Organization for Women. So today, we're reversing the format. NOW's Policy and Advocacy Manager, Shelby Von Hofe, will be speaking to me and Rose, and we'll be talking about feminism and trying to figure out exactly which wave we're on. Next episode, Rose and I will take over the interviews, bringing on the movers and shakers within feminism to talk about everything from reproduction and the rise of natalism to the problem or promise of men. And you'll notice some changes to the format of the show.
And one of the things we'd love to do is start playing your messages. You can call now at the number in our show notes and send us a voice message or email us on voice memo at feminismnow at n-o-w dot o-r-g. Tell us what issues you think feminists should be taking on or what makes you a feminist or anything else that's on your mind. And now let's get started.
Shelby Von Hofe (01:37)
Hi, everyone. I am Shelby Von Hofe and I am the Policy and Advocacy Manager of the National Organization for Women. I am so excited to be here for the start of the new season of the Feminism Now podcast and to introduce you to our new national president and vice president, Kim Villanueva and Rose Brunache. So first, let's have you guys introduce yourselves. So tell us who you are and what was your first experience with feminism?
Kim Villanueva (02:07)
Well, I'll go first. I'm Kim Villanueva, president of NOW. Well, first of all, I'm the oldest of five daughters. So I think that is an automatic qualification for feminism right there. But I would say that my click moment, know what Gloria Stein talks about having a click moment for feminism, was when I was eight. I was in Catholic Sunday school and I volunteered to be an altar girl. And the Sunday school teacher came back the next week and said, nope, you can't do that.
And I said, well, why? Why can't I be an ultra girl? And she said, well, that's just the way it is. Girls don't do that. So after that, I always thought, well, that's not the way it should be. So I've always thought, I need to do things to make change so that girls can do more than we thought we could, more than we want to do. And so that was my moment, my introduction to feminism.
Shelby Von Hofe (02:54)
feel like eldest daughter, that's like inherent feminism. It's like you're almost kind of born into it. It's like you have no choice. Rose, how about you?
Kim Villanueva (03:01)
Right.
Rose Brunache (03:04)
Well, I'm Rose Brunache. I'm the VP of NOW. And I can't remember a time when I wasn't a feminist, I think because I was black in a mostly white neighborhood and I dealt with discrimination on account of race. And so I could always see that connection when it came to gender. In particular, I'd say kindergarten. There was this librarian that we had and all the kids hated her. And they said that she was strict and everything like that.
But I didn't see how she was any different than the male teachers we had. Now, you don't have a lot of male teachers in elementary school, but we had some. And I just know that she was treated differently. And even back then, I was like, that's not fair. They're just sexist. Maybe I didn't use that word, but I knew that it was because she was a woman. And so I think that was my first moment in terms of gender and sexism.
Shelby Von Hofe (03:51)
Awesome, especially to see it in kindergarten, to see your staff members being treated unfairly. That's absolutely a great start to your feminist career, for sure. So this is a podcast of the National Organization for Women, and we were founded in 1966 as a grassroots organization. Of course, feminism goes back a lot further than that. So let's talk about the history of feminism. So what is the history of feminism and where did it start?
Kim Villanueva (04:24)
Shelby, if you think about the history of our country, the roots of feminism were actually part of the starting of the Constitution. When the founders were writing the Constitution, they left out women. You know, the preamble says all men are created equal. But there was an advocate for women and that was Abigail Adams, who was married to John Adams. And she said, you need to remember the ladies because she didn't want men to have absolute power. And she threatened that women would rebel if they weren't included. And of course,
The men didn't listen, women weren't included, and we're still working to be part of the Constitution. So feminism really dates back from the early part of our country. And as social movements have evolved, women have stepped up to a rise to the challenge. Black women were speaking out against slavery and were a huge part of the abolitionist movement. Iroquois women in Western New York were matriarchal. They could own property, vote.
out their middle leaders and they had a huge influence on Elizabeth Cady Stanton and Lucretia Mott, who then developed the Declaration of Sentiments. So feminism has evolved over time, you know, with the input of different cultures. The first part of feminism dealt with trying to get women the right to vote. The second part dealt with civil rights. The third part dealt more with bodily autonomy. And the part that we're in now is more about digital media and awareness.
Shelby Von Hofe (05:45)
I love that you brought up that quote by Abigail Adams because it is literally hanging on my wall right now.
Kim Villanueva (05:54)
And it's still true today.
Shelby Von Hofe (05:58)
So you hear a lot about the waves of feminism, first wave, second wave, third wave. So what wave are we on right now? And how is it different than the other wave?
Kim Villanueva (06:08)
Well, don't you think feminism is really more like a roller coaster than a race sometimes? Yeah, I'd say that's true. and down, up and down. Sometimes you feel like it's going really well and sometimes it's not.
Rose Brunache (06:18)
I think people say we're in the fourth wave apparently, but I think all waves are kind of simultaneous. There's different waves of feminism. There's also different schools of feminism. There isn't this one collective movement.
Kim Villanueva (06:30)
Right, and everything builds on each other. Absolutely. I think that's what part of the intersectional part of feminism, and that's where we are now, is that we know that women of color have specific issues that need to be addressed. There are economic issues that play into different sectors. so tying all that together, I think, is where we are right now, the fourth way.
Shelby Von Hofe (06:49)
Absolutely. It's funny because you hear people say all the time like, I'm not a feminist. I just believe in equality or I'm not a feminist. I don't hate men. People are really sensitive about the word feminism. And why do think people have these ideas about feminism and why it's such a bad thing?
Rose Brunache (07:08)
think there's some people who don't like labels and I think people don't like to belong to groups. It could be kind of culty maybe like, I belong to this group. I think some people, it's just like some people don't like talking about politics, but if you listen to them, it's very obvious where they stand politically. I think that's where it comes from. I think also because like I said, there's many different waves of feminism and there might be certain feminism that turns them up. I know I do. For example, there's some feminists who are very anti-natalist. I'm not anti-natalist.
I mean, think women should do whatever they want to, but there's some women who aggressively believe that women shouldn't have children. So if you want to have children or if you think that women should do whatever they want to, you might be turned off by that. And so me personally, I'm going to be controversial. It used to bother me when women said they weren't feminists, but now I kind of understand. Some women don't want to be confined to a specific philosophy because there's not one philosophy.
Kim Villanueva (08:00)
Yeah, it depends on how you define feminism. Absolutely. If you think women should be paid the same as men, if you think women should have the right to their own bodies, I mean, then you're a feminist.
Shelby Von Hofe (08:09)
It's almost also an extension of feminism, whether or not to identify with the word feminism. And maybe that's included in our fourth wave feminism of like tech and intersectionality and labeling and really just kind of giving women the freedom to identify however they want to identify, whether or not they want to use a label or not. But how did the public idea of feminism become so weirdly controversial and politicized? What do you guys think?
Kim Villanueva (08:36)
Well, some of it I think is backlash against people who feel they're threatened. And there's even women who feel threatened by feminism because they feel that they don't have the power or they feel they need to be protected. We just need to empower them and feel that they are the ones that can take the power and feel safe.
Rose Brunache (08:51)
And
like I said earlier, I think it's because there is different types of feminism. And so there's going to be genuine disagreements. We had disagreements with now. When now started taking on the issue of abortion, some more conservative members didn't want to tackle that. They want to focus more on less controversial issues like the pay gap. And they kind of left and they created their own organization. You're never going to agree 100 % with any particular movement. think that's
And me personally, think that I always say, forget about what we disagree with. Let's focus on what we agree with and focus on that. And I think a lot of times women, fight over the disagreements, but you're bound to find areas where you do agree.
Shelby Von Hofe (09:29)
So true. Patriarchy loves to pit us against each other. That's right. if we all, just like Rosette, if we all just kind of come together and find common ground, we can overcome patriarchy's bad press, their bad media. What do you say to people who don't think that they're feminists or who say that they aren't feminists?
Kim Villanueva (09:33)
That's
Rose Brunache (09:52)
My personal thing that I do is to not focus on words and the focus on particular things they believe in. So they might support reproductive rights. They might support ending the pay gap. They might support getting more women in politics and just focus on actual tangible things. One criticism, you know, when I kept trying to get people, because I used to be a chapter leader in the DC chapter, is people want to do actions. And how do you attract people? Some of the complaints was that some people, women, not just now, but some groups just sit around and talk.
about things and that people want to do things. So focus on volunteering for women's causes and don't get bogged down in the label. Cause they'll find their way to, think eventually when they get involved, they'll say, you know what, maybe I am a feminist, you know, but I I don't think it makes any point to keep debating people on a label and how they identify themselves. Cause it is part of like larger identity for some people.
Kim Villanueva (10:44)
Well, if you can use specific examples too, you know, I might say, don't you think that your sister should be paid the same as a man gets paid for that job? Or shouldn't your mom have access to childcare, wouldn't that help her out? I mean, if you just, you know, bring it down to the local level or to the personal level, then they can say, well, yeah, I actually agree with that.
Shelby Von Hofe (11:03)
Yeah, I definitely agree with that.
Kim Villanueva (11:06)
You're a feminist.
Shelby Von Hofe (11:09)
Well, I hope so. Otherwise, I don't work in the right way. We also talked about, so we talked a lot about waves and how the ideas of feminism change. So does feminism really change?
Kim Villanueva (11:23)
or
Shelby Von Hofe (11:24)
Is it like we're said that we're just kind of like moving forward and the waves are cycling upon each other? What do we think about that?
Rose Brunache (11:31)
Well, I mean, I think we're unfortunately are fighting the same issues. Yeah. Especially abortion because of Roe v. was overturned. So we're going to have, we're now having to do the same things. I think unfortunately we're fighting for the same issues. I think maybe the tactics are different. Socially we've changed a lot, but I think maybe on paper we haven't passed a lot of the things that we need to pass. But you you have more women in college than men now. You have more women in law school. I think women have advanced a lot.
particularly on an interpersonal level, but I think maybe, you know, like for example, the ERA hasn't, it has been passed, but it hasn't been recognized. That's something we're talking about 50 years ago. So we're still talking about it. So I think some things are the same, some things aren't.
Kim Villanueva (12:12)
Well, I think the idea of feminism has expanded to include more people than just white women. Won the right to vote in 1920, didn't really, it technically included black women, but the reality, you know, they weren't included. So we still had to fight to make sure that women of color were included. So I think as feminism rolls on and waves, it's expanding its outreach and we're realizing that, you know, there's so many issues that affect so many people.
Shelby Von Hofe (12:37)
It's reminded me of ⁓ Shoots and Ladders. When we're like back in grade school, it just like, really does because even though sometimes you can really still keep climbing the levels, climbing the levels, like we're becoming more intersectional, we're broadening things out, women are achieving more. But just like you said, Rose, like with the Dobbs decision and everything, it just, really does feel like just, ooh, right now.
Kim Villanueva (13:03)
Tumbling back down.
Shelby Von Hofe (13:04)
to right where we started again. It's frustrating for sure. So let's take a quick break to hear from our chapters.
Kim Villanueva (13:18)
This is Kim and welcome to our chapter segment. Now it's a grassroots organization and that means our chapters make us who we are. So we wanted to highlight a different chapter and their work each episode so you can hear about all the wonderful feminists making a difference. Take it away.
Christine Lindner (13:33)
My name is Christine Linder and I am the president of West Kentucky Now. I am most proud that our chapter is an intergenerational chapter. We have amazing elders in our chapter, as well as younger members of our chapter, including a recently formed Campus Action Network at our local college, Murray State University. And so it's really great to have that intergenerational conversations and work building together, drawing upon our different strengths.
I'm also really proud that we are a part of a regional coalition of different like-minded groups where we can kind of work together to not just have one group working on everything, but kind of share their resources, share the work, and work collaboratively. The issues that are most important to my chapter are bodily autonomy. We've had a lot of restrictions on reproductive healthcare, which have impacted our lives in all capacities.
We're also interested and impacted by economic justice. A lot of the budget cuts has significantly impacted our livelihoods. Many of our members have had jobs that are a little bit more precarious right now, but we're also seeing the great economic impact of budget cuts on our communities. And we're also impacted by the restrictions on political engagement, the fear of speaking out, the fear of just making a choice and the impact that could have on your job, on your livelihood.
In 2026, we are tackling the cost of being a woman by continuing to provide free resources to our community. A couple of years ago, we started an initiative to pad the pantries, which is to provide free period products to our mutual aid boxes, our blessing boxes in the area. So we have recently revived that. So that's a big campaign that we will be doing. We also provide sexual health resources at all of our tabling events. And so giving those out to our community members, which is really important, particularly with the restrictions.
in reproductive health in our area. And we're also going to be continuing to advocate for the removal of pink taxes, which are taxes on period products, diapers, other products that disproportionately impact women and people who are the purchasers of these products as their tax as luxuries rather than the essential goods that they are. People can find more about us at our website, which is westkentuckinow.org or on Facebook and Instagram or at West Kentucky Now.
Kim Villanueva (15:53)
you
Shelby Von Hofe (15:58)
Okay, we are back. Talking about kind of the ways that feminism changed, let's go back to the beginning of NOW. So, NOW was founded in 1966. What role or gap was it looking to fill in feminism?
Kim Villanueva (16:14)
Well, I always like to say that this is the story of now. 28 women met in a room in a conference for women, but dominated by men. Women got mad, mad as hell. They wouldn't take anymore. So they started a new group called Now. So I mean, they were trying to address the issues that mainly were economic issues at that time. They felt that were not, were just being, know, lip service were only being paid to these issues and they wanted real results to show. So they felt they needed to do things in their own way.
Rose Brunache (16:45)
of it was because there was, think, 1963, Kennedy signed something about pay equality. And that's what the huge focus was in the early years. But I mean, think Betty Friedan said that it was going to be the NAACP for women. So it wasn't just going to focus on one issue. It was about a group that would advocate for women in general on all levels. And so that's what we still are. And that's what makes us unique. There are other women's groups that focus just on reproductive rights, just on the pay equality, just on
domestic violence, we focus on everything and we're chapter based. And so I think that we're still the same, but better.
Shelby Von Hofe (17:22)
definitely agree with that. think that now started kind of because we wanted to hear our voices, not just men's voices on our issues and being a grassroots organization and even expanding to as much as we have today, we really still have kept true to that and centered the voices of our members and our chapters and given them space to be able to feel like they're heard. And I'm definitely proud to be a part of legacy.
So as a grassroots organization, speaking of grassroots, what role do the grassroots play in shaping feminism as a movement? So like, what do we stand for? Grassroots.
Rose Brunache (18:00)
guys.
Kim Villanueva (18:01)
Well, that means that every member's voice is important and local issues are very important. And that's really where the action is taking place. Yeah. You know, you may feel, you know, when you turn, when you look at your phone or you watch TV, I'm just so depressed by seeing what's happening to the national level, but you can make a difference locally. And so that's why it's important for each of our members and our chaps is to feel that they can work together and find other people who think like, like you do to take action locally.
Rose Brunache (18:27)
And I like to say that the worst ideas are started locally too. that's what that is. So that's why to get it at the local level. You know, one thing about Roe v. being overturned is that ironically it led to some states codifying abortion. Maryland, think, passed it just like a year after. I can't remember what Midwestern state. you know, local actually matters. It really does.
Shelby Von Hofe (18:49)
And talking about Roe being overturned, just like, ugh, it gets me in the heart every time. It's definitely a tough time to be a feminist. I think you guys are probably going talk about that a lot this season. But we've lost Roe V Wade with Dobbs, and now there are attacks on voting rights and attacks on the LGBTQIA populations, people of color, immigrants. And these are all feminist issues. So what gives us hope right now as feminists?
Kim Villanueva (19:18)
Well for me, hearing what's happening locally gives me hope because people are doing what they can, know, when they can, how they can, and it's making a difference locally. I even heard from a Girl Scout troop that they were creating outdoor spaces so that the students could go outside during school time. I mean, even small things like that, just opening up people to new experiences. And the fact that the girls were doing this instead of the boys, I think was really important. They were taking the lead.
Shelby Von Hofe (19:44)
For sure.
Rose Brunache (19:44)
I think what motivates me is just that things used to be worse. You look at this country, you look at how bad things were and people didn't stop pushing for it. You know, it took a long time to get the women's right to vote. And I like to read the stories about that. They didn't stop. They kept going. And once they got the women's right to vote, they said, okay, let's, know, the league of women voters came out of that, right? After women got, so it was, it was an ongoing thing. You know, the minute that women got the right to vote, Alice Paul focused on the equal rights amendment. So it's like, just keep going.
and don't be discouraged.
Shelby Von Hofe (20:15)
Absolutely. And so finally, what do feminism now listeners have to look forward to this season?
Kim Villanueva (20:23)
Well, we're going to change it up a little. We're going to have some different topics, such as natalism and men in misogyny, talk a little quite a bit more about intersectionality. And we're going to feature some of our young feminists who are actually on the ground taking action. And we're also going to talk about violence against women.
Rose Brunache (20:41)
Yeah, I like to say to have themes for it. I think the theme would be new voices, different voices, and everything is feminism. So things that you might not think are simply feminist issues, we'll talk about it. And it is a feminist issue.
Shelby Von Hofe (20:41)
We like
I love that. Everything is feminism. It's so true. I know, right? Totally a new button, a new sticker. Gosh, we love stickers here and now. They go like hotcakes at the rallies. Kim and Rose, thank you so much. I definitely think we all needed a little bit of feminism 101. And I can't wait to see what you guys have planned.
Kim Villanueva (21:00)
I that's a new button.
Rose Brunache (21:20)
It was a pleasure.
Kim Villanueva (21:21)
Thank you, Shelby.
Shelby Von Hofe (21:26)
Hey everyone, it's Shelby again, and this is what's going to be called our Grab Bag segment. It might be a message from our president, a reaction to recent newsworthy events, or letting you know about something that now is planning. And today, I'm here to tell you that we are relaunching our book club, Feminist Public Square. Women reading books together is fundamentally feminist, and the books that we will be reading will be aligned with our six core values and our upcoming 60th anniversary campaign. Our first book is Mutual Aid,
by Dean Spade, and we'd love to have you read it with us. You can come and find out more about Book Club at Now.org slash national organization for women book club, or you can find the link in our show notes.
Kim Villanueva (22:11)
Thank you so much for joining us for the beginning of our fifth podcast season as Rose and I take the helm. We hope you enjoyed a little primer on what feminism was and what feminism is. We'd love for you and everyone you know to join us this season. Share the show with your friends, whether they identify as feminist or not. Who knows? They might by the time we're done. And remember, we want to hear from you. Send us your thoughts about feminism, about what's happening now, about what you want to see.
Get our number from the show notes, give us a call and send us a message. Or email us a voice memo at feminismnow at n-o-w dot o-r-g. Tell us what issues you think feminists should be working on, or what makes you a feminist, or anything else that's on your mind. Together, we can make a difference. Thanks for listening and stay tuned for our next episode in two weeks.