Hardcover Live


Adam and Ste discuss their recent trips to South Korea and Romania, respectively. They talk about their experiences, including hiking, exploring local markets, and enjoying the cherry blossoms. They also discuss updates to the card design for lists on Hardcover, specifically focusing on adding reasons for adding books to a list. They explore different options for displaying the reasons and gather feedback from Discord users. They also discuss the possibility of auto-saving the reasons and using avatars to indicate the list creator. In this conversation, Ste and Adam discuss the design of book cards and explore different elements and features that should be included. They discuss the placement and design of prompts, reasons, and upvoting functionality. They also consider the hierarchy of information and the sorting options for book cards. The conversation ends with a plan to implement and test the different card designs.


Travel experiences can be enhanced by immersing oneself in local culture and exploring specific aspects of the destination, such as folklore and cuisine.
Involving users in the design process through platforms like Discord can lead to valuable feedback and iterative improvements.
When designing features, it's important to consider user preferences and make the interface intuitive and easy to use.
Auto-saving can provide a seamless user experience, but clear feedback is necessary to ensure users understand that their input has been saved.
Using avatars can personalize the user experience and provide visual cues for differentiating between list creators and other users. Book cards should include prompts, reasons, and upvoting functionality
The hierarchy of information on the card should be carefully considered
Sorting options for book cards should include most recently added and most liked
Different card designs should be implemented and tested


00:00 Introduction and Travel Experiences
11:28 Designing the Card Layout for Adding Reasons to Lists
29:56 Auto-Saving vs Manual Saving: Balancing User Experience
36:35 Designing Book Cards: Prompts, Reasons, and Upvoting
52:40 Implementing and Testing Different Card Designs

What is Hardcover Live?

Each week Adam & Ste focus on a specific feature, idea or prototype in Hardcover and iterate on it together or with guests.

Adam (00:01.019)
Hey, hey, stay. How's it going?

Ste (00:03.805)
Hi, Adam. Pretty good. I'm back in my home country of Romania, as you can see, like, change scenery next to the fig plant. Yeah. And we're doing pretty well. How about you?

Adam (00:17.902)
I'm recovering from my two week trip to South Korea and trying to get back into a normal flow of days where I'm not just like wondering where I'm waking up and trying to plan something to do for the day and actually have actual things planned for the day.

Ste (00:38.566)
Well that sounds good. How are you? Are you jet-lagged at all? I mean I imagine you are, right?

Adam (00:44.75)
Yeah, I'm, I'm still a little jet lagged. I haven't had like just a normal full night sleep straight through. I'm still like waking up in the middle of the night and trying to go back to sleep, but.

Ste (00:54.961)
Ah, geez. Do you get any helpers? Like, was that the melatonin or something like that? Melatonin, sorry. Yeah.

Adam (01:02.958)
Um, melatonin. Yeah, I did use some melatonin once or twice, like one of the, one or two nights, but it hasn't, it hasn't helped too much, but, um, I, I think maybe one of the culprits is probably just like having a diet, Dr. Pepper at night and getting caffeine or something. So

Ste (01:23.786)
always good that midnight Dr. Pepper yeah nice and how was it?

Adam (01:30.786)
It was, it was a great trip. Yeah. I, uh, yeah, we, we just stayed in Seoul the whole time. So, um, we, we did like so much over two weeks, but we still were able to relax. Um, yeah, I was on, on a lot of trips in the past, we've like tried to go to multiple cities and things like that. So this time we just said, okay, let's stay in one place and just explore where we can from there and try to just like really get a feel for the area. Um,

Yeah, I think, uh, I think some of my favorite things were we did a folklore hike with a local, like, um, professor who like is really in, like, has a ton of experience on, um, like the folklore mythology and religious, um, background of South Korea and that whole area. So we were like hiking this mountain and he was talking about like.

different mountains that were named after different Buddhist monks and their influences on, um, Korea, like a thousand years ago. And then we like get to a monastery and look around there. It was, and then like at the end of it, have this great, like, um, great local meal, like in the shadow of the mountain. It was, it was a really great hike.

Ste (02:48.825)
Wow, that sounds amazing. That's, yeah, that sounds really well. That sounds really wholesome. And how long was the hike? I mean, was it like a day hike?

Adam (02:53.186)

Adam (03:00.914)
It was about like seven kilometers and like a thousand meters elevation or not a thousand meters, a thousand, yeah, or something like that. But a lot of it was like up and down. So it wasn't like we went to a thousand feet. I think the top was maybe like 400 meters, but then you go up and down so much.

Ste (03:04.247)

Ste (03:21.938)
Okay, gotcha. Okay, but how did you perceive it? Was it the long one or like...

Adam (03:30.31)
I'd, I'd qualify it as solidly an intermediate hike, like not one that I would have been able to do coming from Florida and having never hiked before. It would have been, it would have been too much.

Ste (03:33.561)
Okay, gotcha.

Ste (03:42.163)
Yeah, that sounds great. And what about like the food and like the surroundings? I saw some photos on Instagram and it looked like you're like in full Sakura bloom season.

Adam (03:54.97)
Yeah, that's, that's definitely been our favorite time to go. Like we went to Japan for our honeymoon during like cherry blossom season. So we tried to schedule this time to go to South Korea during cherry blossom season and yeah, I was like, we didn't, we didn't seek out like some of the most active spots, but just like walking around and having them be blooming everywhere you go and just having so many streets just lined with them was very nice. Yeah. And then, uh,

One of the other like favorite things we did was we did this a food tour of one of the, uh, it's like a huge market that has like tons of stalls. And, uh, one of them was featured on like the Netflix, um, like a Netflix show. And we went with this guide and he, he was great. He just like took us to all these highlights and like

You could tell that this guy like lives and breathes this area. He's like, yeah, I've tried eating at every single place we've walked by today, including like the blocks surrounding the market to get like his favorite foods from everywhere.

Ste (05:07.685)
Wow, that's commitment. Yeah, that's crazy. Yeah. I mean, I bet you had like, it sounds like an amazing time. I can't wait to, I mean, you gotta like share photos of all those places. I mean, imagine them in my head, but yeah, I bet the real deal was like 100 times more exciting.

Adam (05:10.082)

Adam (05:30.2)
It was busy, but nowhere near as busy as we expected. There were maybe two things we didn't do just because there were lines during the entire trip. Everything else we were pretty much able to just walk right into.

Ste (05:40.1)

Oh wow, that sounds great. I mean, is it... it should be like really busy, like in terms of like the season, right? The busiest one, maybe?

Adam (05:53.458)
Yeah, probably because it was already starting to get pretty hot. Like I think it was maybe capping out around the mid seventies Fahrenheit. Um, and so that's like, that's pretty nice. Like in the sun starts to get a little hot, but, um, I have a feeling from here to like the beam, the mid fall, it's just going to get really, really hot. So I have a feeling if, uh, if you, if anyone's thinking about going to South Korea, maybe.

Ste (06:07.202)

Ste (06:16.913)
Haha yeah.

Adam (06:22.722)
do it before May or after October.

Ste (06:24.861)
Uh-huh. Yeah, yeah, that's a good tip. I don't know what's been going on. It seems like globally there's been a shift. Even here, it was like 33 in yesterday, which is that Celsius. So Fahrenheit should be pretty hot. I got the sun 10. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, my kid got a little bit of tan as well.

Adam (06:45.462)
Yeah, 90s. Oh, wow.

Ste (06:54.169)
what the hell was with this? I mean spring is not supposed to be this hot but I heard it might be because of El Nino so that might influence it a bit who knows but

Adam (07:09.33)
Yeah. What, uh, what brings you back to Romania for this trip?

Ste (07:14.021)
Oh, it's a really, let's see, operational. I got my wisdom teeth removed three days ago on Monday. So yeah, it's kind of like, well, I had a really good doctor. And it was just like with the local anesthetic. And they actually like, I don't know if this is usually done. I heard people who got left with massive holes.

Adam (07:18.837)

Adam (07:24.4)
I don't know how you're still talking so well.

Ste (07:40.741)
but it was actually sutured and everything, so I was good. I got ice for half a day on Monday on it, and apparently, yeah, it's OK. It didn't swell. I'm on a little bit of, yeah, low dose painkillers, but other than that, yeah, I'm fine. Wisdom to teeth out, yeah.

Adam (07:57.304)

Adam (08:04.566)
Nice. I think most of the people I've talked to like were put under for having their wisdom teeth out. But yeah, I also had mine out when I was, you know, just awake and just having a person leaning over you, just like... Ha ha ha.

Ste (08:21.837)
Uh-huh. Yeah. It's pretty, I mean, it was actually like pretty good. I'm coming here from the UK because the dental services are way more reliable than there and cheaper, of course, and much better in quality and how fast you can see an actual doctor. So, yeah. But...

Adam (08:46.062)

Ste (08:49.625)
Yeah, mission accomplished, I guess. Yeah.

Adam (08:52.268)

When do you head back?

Ste (08:58.342)
Next week actually on Friday Yeah

Adam (09:01.406)

Ste (09:03.501)
Yeah, back full into hardcover stuff. And yeah, speaking of hardcover, today maybe we can talk about some updates that we've been preparing while you were away. Nothing broke, so that's a huge achievement. I was a bit worried that someone would do something and.

You'd be like in the middle of the night in South Korea trying to restore the database or something. But yeah, that didn't happen.

Adam (09:36.254)
Yeah, that was, that was a, probably the first test of me being away for a couple of weeks and actually having no, no real like, you know, on call person. Um, which, which I, I've never been a fan of having like an on call person for any job, so like it's, it's nice that hasn't been something we've really needed.

Ste (09:48.571)

Ste (10:00.705)
Yeah, yeah, well, it went well. So I mean, people have haven't been pushing stuff to production that might break anything. So now we can get back to our regular schedule without any disturbances, but yeah, it was a good experiment.

Adam (10:19.097)
Yeah, and I liked not even bringing my laptop. That was, it may travel a little easier too.

Ste (10:27.637)
Yeah, that's like a test of resilience. I think maybe every tech startup should experiment this, just not have the main person in charge, which is you of the technical side. Just go away for two weeks and see what happens. If it breaks, maybe there's something wrong. If it doesn't, it's a failure.

everyone wins.

Adam (10:53.043)
Yeah. What have you been up to the last couple weeks?

Ste (10:59.701)
Well, I think the main thing that was an update that doesn't concern stuff we've been planning or technical things we've been working on is the card design for the lists we've been doing. And I was hoping today we can cover all of those updates and a few of the things that you've been writing about on Discord so we can finally settle that and ship it.

And it's been really interesting to have some people on Discord offer their feedback and iterate with me on the designs. It's been really, really helpful to do that. It's a really good process, working with people that way. And it's pretty crazy that people can actually

say what their preferences are regarding where stuff should go. It's really helpful for me as well and for us in the team. And also, I've always dreamed that, and sometimes I do this with a thing I use and I like, like a product or an app or something like that, where I offer the suggestion,

Adam (12:02.702)
Thanks for watching!


Ste (12:24.509)
to someone on the team and follow up on it. And mostly it just like gets ignored or it's a support to get somewhere. Someone says, oh, we're going to do it. But yeah, over here, some of the stuff we share in the development channel first. And we don't even like share it internally with the team. So many people are basically like.

doing the same things a team member does with the feedback. So, yeah.

Adam (12:57.63)
Yeah. At a, at my, my last job, part of that, like iterative cycle would be like, we would design something like with the team, we would kind of formalize it as a team. And then we would like call people or email people and try to get people on a video call to show them and then get their feedback on it and then iterate on it. So like this process where it's like, you just do it in Figma, you drop it in discord and you get feedback.

It's so much quicker.

Ste (13:29.177)
Yeah. And it's like so many people seeing that. That's the thing I like. It's also like, if you're working on something that you're going to see every day on hardcover, and you're on Discord, and you offer your feedback, there's a really big chance you're going to be able to influence it. So if you don't like something, or you really want to see something there, you know, Discord is the place to be because you're talking directly to us. You're saying,

that there and we're just like I'm doing it in Figma and sharing it on Discord then I'm taking in the feedback from other people and another thing which I think is really good is that you know we get hit with a lot of requests like make that cover bigger or make that cover smaller and there's half the people who say

to make the cover bigger, have the people who say, make the cover smaller. So I think this is like starting that debate and having people debate between themselves and together with us as well, kind of like brings it to a point where everybody's happy or as happy as they can be with the solution. So.

Adam (14:46.531)
Yeah, you can kind of see all sides of the, like all arguments for and against. Yeah.

Ste (14:51.341)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Else it would be just like how it is usually with us in the team asking for feedback. And people just have to believe us that there's half of the people saying that we should do this the opposite way they want to. Yeah.

Adam (15:02.946)

Adam (15:07.978)
Well, speaking of that, do you want to jump into Figma and look over some of these card styles?

Ste (15:12.685)
Yeah, let's do that. Okay, let's jump into Figuang. I'm going to share my screen over here.

Ste (15:21.117)
Here we go.

Adam (15:24.303)

Ste (15:25.529)
Hmm? Are we seeing it?

Adam (15:28.31)
Not yet.

Ste (15:30.345)
Let's see, maybe I am doing something wrong. So I'm sharing this one. Oh, okay Let's see. It's

Ste (15:46.075)
They say they're running into an issue. So it's not on mine, folks. Wait just a minute. I'm going to try to do it again. Also, I'm going to share the entire screen. OK, let me just share the entire screen.

Ste (16:06.961)
That doesn't work either. What's wrong with this?

Adam (16:16.526)
Want me to try?

Ste (16:16.837)
Yeah, if you can try, sorry folks, it's one of those days.

Adam (16:20.214)
Let's see. Share screen.

Ste (16:29.533)
Oh, here we go. Oh, I might be on a new browser and yeah, security permissions and everything. Yeah, here we go.

Adam (16:30.606)
Let's see.

Adam (16:34.426)
Uh, yeah, that could be, are you trying, what are you trying? Arc or some other weird browser?

Ste (16:40.989)
Oh, no, I'm just on Chrome, but I'm on the laptop, and I usually am not on a laptop. So that's maybe the cause. Here we go. So these are the cards. I mean, here's everything. This is the table row view, and this is the card view as it is now. Pretty good, but starting from this.

Adam (16:46.286)
and I'll see you next time.

Adam (16:50.434)

Ste (17:09.029)
I was trying to see if we can optimize a few things, and these are the initial options. There's seven options that I've tried to do based on what you said, Adam should be featured over there, and maybe for some of the options include some new features, like being able to remove a book from a list directly from the card.

The big important thing is how would you see the reason that book has been added to the list. I think those were the big two things. And then some small details. They're just shuffled around, I guess, over here, because in some you can see the book has a gradient background. In some...

Rating looks different in some, the match percentage is bright yellow. In some, it's grayish. And yeah, it's all those combos of options of where everything could go. And yeah, basically, I tried. Some have bigger covers, like you see on number 5 and number 6. On number 6, it's actually overflowing. I think that was your favorite, right?

Adam (18:28.93)
That one, that one was, yeah, I definitely liked that one, that overall one. I'm split on the cover overflowing versus like having it centered, but I like both.

Ste (18:34.646)

Ste (18:41.949)
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. It's like covering all the things we could do while still looking good, I guess. So I think the winning version was a combo, at least from the feedback on Discord, a combo of seven and four, which I guess are the most strong.

structured in a way. So I went forward with that. And first, I tried to reposition the elements so they would fit in here and also try to see how it looks, for instance, for a book that isn't a series or maybe doesn't have a reason.

And then basically just iterated on that and figured out how the reason would be added if that list was yours and if you would see somebody else's list with the reasons. And the way it worked in this last version is that if this was your list, for instance, and you had fourth wing over here,

Adam (19:42.332)

Ste (20:06.213)
You could add a reason, and when you would add a reason, it would trigger this field that you could add it. And when you navigated away from it or clicked maybe on where it says reason saved right now, it would save it. So it would be kind of like you'd be editing a document, and it would be auto-saved. And then you could toggle the reason for each book.

Adam (20:12.948)

Ste (20:36.217)
This was one of the questions. So the options would be like, would you want to toggle the reason for all the books on that list? Or would you just want to go through the books and toggle the reason on each one, the default being not seeing a reason, but seeing something like.

Adam (20:57.23)

Ste (21:00.645)
uh this maybe so the reason would be highlighted and if you would tap it you would see this thing

Adam (21:11.278)
Yeah, I could see always showing it.

Ste (21:15.694)

Adam (21:17.875)
And I say that because I think most people won't use it. Most people won't have a reason. And so it feels like if there is a reason, then it's like significant enough that it's like, like someone went out of their way to add it for this list kind of thing.

Ste (21:36.221)
Mm-hmm. I'd lean towards the same thing because it's a new feature. It's pretty useful. And the worst that can happen is you're going to see a lot of books where this would say, no reason added or something. Do you have any better ideas?

Adam (21:53.736)
Oh yeah.

Adam (21:57.806)
I could think we could, like if you're viewing this card and you're the owner of it, then it would look like this with this like ability to add. Either that or.

Yeah, I'm trying to think, like, if you were just viewing this as a user and it's not your list and there's no reason added, then we would just not show anything.

Ste (22:25.473)
Oh, yeah, maybe, yeah, you're right. Just something like this, maybe. There isn't a reason, because the author at least didn't have a reason. So maybe that's pretty clear.

Adam (22:38.622)
Yeah. And we could probably even, we could probably even remove that altogether. Like if it's not a

Ste (22:42.453)
Yeah, so no reason is just this.

Adam (22:50.398)
Yeah. And then it's like, if there is a reason, like this, this style down here looks really cool. I, I'm thinking like the, the connection between this little part up here and this part down here, they seem like kind of in different spots. So I was wondering about like, you know, moving this part down here somehow.

Ste (22:52.582)
Yeah, that's clean.

Ste (23:12.226)

Ste (23:21.165)
Yeah, that could work. Maybe just like in front of it or not have any icon, just the text.

Adam (23:29.546)
Yeah, or even.

or even not even having reason. We could just tap the icon.

Ste (23:36.501)
Or the icon, yeah. By the way, that's an asterisk sign. I searched for at least 15 minutes to find an icon for a reason. And I was going back and forth between showing a speech bubble with a plus or a question mark, but that's more for prompts. But then I went for the asterisk, because the asterisk is kind of like something.

Adam (23:40.17)
I'm gonna go.

Ste (24:03.417)
mentioned on top of that so that kind of looked like the reason but yeah I don't know.

Adam (24:07.57)
Yeah, I think it makes sense. I mean, I like it.

Ste (24:12.213)
Okay, that's good. That's good enough. Here we go.

Adam (24:18.89)

Ste (24:21.665)
Yeah, that's it. Perfect.

Adam (24:24.474)
And I don't know if we need the time here actually. What do you think?

Ste (24:29.717)
Yeah, I was actually, I added that because would it be relevant when someone added the reason to the list? Or would it be relevant to you if you have a list to say, OK, I did this a while ago, maybe I want to change the reason, or for any other reason?

Adam (24:51.903)

Because right now in terms of what we're saving, we have the date that they added that book to the list. Or if it's a, this isn't like a list, if it's maybe like your want to read list, we have the date you saved it as want to read. But those are kind of different things than when you did a write up on it.

Ste (25:02.233)

Ste (25:18.857)
Okay, maybe then we can just remove it. I mean, it doesn't seem vital. I just add it in case someone wanted it to have an actual date for when they added the reason.

Adam (25:38.546)
Yeah. It, I mean, it looks pretty clear and, or actually I have, I have another idea. What if instead of this little icon, we use the person's avatar.

Ste (25:49.898)
Oh, oh yeah.

That's gonna be small enough to not be intrusive, I guess. I mean, even if it repeats the book info itself in that card, there's enough space to have like a buffer between like avatars. Okay, yeah, let's put an avatar there.

Adam (26:06.878)
Yeah, because there's only, because there's only going to be one avatar and it's going to be the list creators avatar.

Ste (26:14.461)
Mm-hmm. Let's make it like the smallest one possible. And it's going to be this. Let's put a stroke on this one. Just make its background. Yeah, here we go. Yeah, this is perfect.

Adam (26:30.925)

Yeah, and I'm imagining if you were like, like this will also show up for your prompt answers page. So like, you know, you've answered a prompt, you've said these are the 10 books that match this prompt, and you give a reason for why each of those books was on the prompt. This is where those would show up too. And we could even do something where, so this is,

Ste (26:55.274)
Nice. That's perfect. Yeah.

Adam (27:03.586)
This is when the card, when there's like one reason, but we could potentially have something where, like there's multiple reasons by multiple users. And if we did that.

Ste (27:18.157)
Okay, so it would just be a thing like this where they would be similar to comments. And let's put an NKJM signal over there.

Ste (27:37.902)
Let's see, like this. So something like this maybe.

Adam (27:41.746)
Yeah. And maybe if, maybe if this is that, that card, this is, this is almost like a very specific, like this is the only place we use this card is on prompts where, but, uh, it, I think, I think it would work for one or multiple. And then probably the

Ste (27:53.871)

Ste (28:00.573)
Yeah, of course. I mean, it looks good. We can cap it so it's not, I mean, if any prompt has like 100 reason plus.

Adam (28:06.466)

Adam (28:12.023)

Adam (28:20.938)
Yeah, and we could probably even cap each of these to be like one line with ellipses so they're not like a paragraph.

Ste (28:28.049)
Oh, yeah, so it's just like one underneath the other. Yeah, that's great.

Adam (28:31.574)
At least for the prompt view.

Ste (28:33.729)
Yeah, I mean, that's going to be a very specific one, like I said. So it's going to be good over here. And we can cap it at, I mean, maybe we can even add a couple more there. Or let's leave it at three for now. And then we can decide in code later, I guess.

Adam (28:38.731)

Adam (28:54.296)

And yeah, Mudkip in the chat asked, how would you add a reason if you don't already have one? So let's see, for lists, if you're the owner of the list, then you would see this button.

Ste (29:10.311)

Ste (29:14.394)

Adam (29:16.81)
And then if you clicked it, it would expand and you would get this right here. I think that's the. Well, we were going with.

Ste (29:24.099)

Ste (29:28.821)
Yep, so this would be like a box where you'd fill in the reason. And I was thinking to make it like really easy. We could either have a button or when you navigate the way it would just like save it. Like on Notion, you would just like write something. I was thinking that maybe we could somehow mimic what we were planning with the editor for the reading journal. But I don't know. What do you think?

Adam (29:56.358)

Ste (29:57.657)
We could have a button there, but if we're going for like very easy, very...

Ste (30:11.469)
Either this or...

Ste (30:17.393)
Save, save, let's see. Okay, yeah, save reason. But between this and auto saving it, I don't know. What do you think?

Adam (30:30.67)
Hmm, I'm split because like auto-saving it is less overhead for the user, but then they might not know it's auto-saving, so then it becomes more overhead. So it's like, if we can have people trust us to the point where they know that every time they type a letter, it's saving it, then auto-save works. But for any other situation, it feels better for them to have like the manual.

Ste (31:00.189)
Yeah, I was thinking maybe we could do this, where it says auto-saving after they write with some delay. So it wouldn't say auto-saving on each letter, but after maybe they write continuously for, or after there's an interruption, I think we can map the keys, how they're pressed. But I don't know, maybe it's over-complicating it.

Adam (31:30.054)
Yeah, it definitely is easier to just add the save reason button.

Ste (31:33.697)
Okay, let's just put that there.

Adam (31:38.272)

Adam (31:49.818)
And you probably even.

What do you think? Just say, just change this to save.

Ste (31:59.198)
Oh yeah. Yeah, clear enough.

Adam (32:06.09)
And then, yeah, we could even have like a checkmark instead of there, like, you know, have this if it's

Ste (32:12.115)
Oh yeah, just say saved.

Adam (32:14.655)
Yeah, if it's saved.

That way they know it's like what's been saved matches what they see.

Ste (32:26.672)

Adam (32:27.562)
Either that or like, you know, they click save it, it flashes as saved and then it goes away. So it's more like, it's like edit mode versus view mode.

Ste (32:42.351)

Adam (32:44.486)
So like, you know, if they're done typing and they click save, then it stops being a form and it just shows kind of what other people would see.

Ste (32:58.029)
Yeah, that works. I mean, this is 100% clear.

Ste (33:04.141)
if we have the button there, I guess.

Adam (33:04.205)

Adam (33:10.991)
Yeah. If you were to see this normally and you were the creator of this one, maybe instead of save here, you would see like, edit.

Ste (33:29.805)
Oh yeah, or maybe you could just click it and end it.

Adam (33:30.71)
And then, mm, yeah, that's true. Maybe this whole thing is a button. And then.

Ste (33:36.797)
Uh-huh. Yeah, that's why I was, I mean, I don't know how the Notion Editor does it. But if we're going to use that for the reading journal, maybe we can replicate that behavior throughout the site in places. And this was one of those places. But we can start with the button and then see if that behavior actually, we can nail it. And then apply. So that it's.

Adam (33:56.107)

Ste (34:07.893)
obvious that it's saved. On Notion, for instance, when you create something or edit something, you don't get that feedback, but you sort of know it's saved. So if we go for something like that, but you're like totally right, we have to let them know that it was saved. Sort of like pave our way to making it...

Adam (34:20.115)

Ste (34:35.377)
a non-behavior on hardcover. I think this is like a step towards that. And then we can think about, yeah, we could just make it into this whole thing, have it like as an edit button that edits the field and the save button just to make sure.

Adam (34:42.256)
Hmm, I could see that. Yeah.

Adam (34:58.763)

And for adding a reason for the prompt one, we could probably do something similar where like, they could click something here. Yeah, exactly. And then that would just like add a row with their icon and they could add it. Yeah.

Ste (35:33.009)
Maybe this could even have an icon attached to it. Let me get this Chevron down and just expands the whole thing. Yeah, I drew a bit too much attention, I guess, with the underline. So maybe this works better or not.

Adam (35:49.07)

Ste (36:04.657)
So this would expand it down, and you could be able to expand it up. Or it would just.

Adam (36:14.45)
Yeah. The one thing I worry about for the expanding it part is if we get really popular, like, you know, why did people add Dune as their favorite book of all time? And we end up having hundreds of responses.

Ste (36:31.659)
Haha, yeah.

Ste (36:35.829)
Mm-hmm. Should we paginate them?

Adam (36:40.11)
Or we just go to a separate page that's specific to prompts, which is just like, here are all the prompts reasons for this or something like that.

Ste (36:42.7)

Ste (36:46.793)
Yeah. So this could be like a Chevron write, and it would take you to a new page.

Adam (36:56.243)
Yeah, yeah, I think that would work.

Ste (36:57.621)
OK. Yeah, so this would take you to the page where you get this thing. And we can see what we will do over there. Maybe paginate them or lazy load them or probably even have some filters on them. So newest first or oldest first or most popular readers first, something like that, just for sorting.

Adam (37:09.875)

Adam (37:19.502)

Adam (37:24.15)
Yeah. Or just like most liked or something. Yeah, we don't really have a concept of liked reasons. But.

Ste (37:28.566)
Oh yeah.

Ste (37:35.137)
Yeah, the reason would be like a comment, right? On the same, like, we could make it like exactly like a comment. I'm thinking.

Adam (37:43.75)
Yeah, it is kind of like a comment, yeah.

Ste (37:47.161)
Maybe if we add like when you hover over it, if we add a heart, would that work? I wouldn't like put it like everywhere. So we have like this. Oh crap, what did I do? It's grouped in a weird way.

Adam (37:55.807)

Ste (38:08.893)
Okay, here, the heart was causing it. It's C, like something like this, and you'd be able to tap it if...

Adam (38:23.315)
Or maybe that's only viewable from this page when you click on the 23 more reasons. Because...

Ste (38:31.635)
Yeah, that seems about right.

Adam (38:33.61)
That way it keeps this pretty simple.

Ste (38:36.441)
Yeah, people, if we put this here, people are going to complain that you can misclick and hit this one. So yeah, dangerously close. Let's just leave it there.

Adam (38:43.415)
Mm. Yeah.

Adam (38:51.134)
And yeah, this is looking really cool.

Ste (38:55.053)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I really like that. You know, it's features like so much activity over here and It's like the common thing for the prompts and for the reason Like for the list

Adam (39:07.902)
Yeah. And, and I'm really, I'm really interested in adding that for the like want to read books too. Like I think that's one of our, um, things people have requested. It's like, I want to save why I added this to my want to read list and being able to have that right here, show up in their want to read list as they're scrolling it, it doesn't hide it away. It, it makes it clear, like while they're scrolling and every time they see

Ste (39:23.804)

Adam (39:36.222)
a book, they'll know why they added it.

Ste (39:38.809)
Yeah, that's very good. Nice. Yeah, this is looking great. Is there anything on this card that you'd add or remove? I mean, I think it's like the essentials, right?

Adam (39:43.115)

Adam (39:56.178)
Yeah. I think all the, all the things that I'm thinking of are like. Pretty small tweaks. I'm, I don't, I'm trying to, I don't think I have any like.

big things we would need to add, like...

Adam (40:12.47)
Let me look at the book page because we did so much research on the book page. Like if there's something at the high priority, it would be at the top of the book page. And yeah, it's like readers, average rating, page count, year released.

Ste (40:16.526)

Ste (40:22.668)
Yeah, exactly.

Adam (40:34.826)
Yeah, title. I think from the only thing that stands out to me could be the hierarchy of the data. I'm thinking this one, the series, I could see that being even more prominent than.

Ste (40:44.869)

Ste (40:56.761)
The match score, yeah. Yeah, I played around with the match score. I mean, on some I put it here. So the card has some area. So it's the area above the title. I guess the eyes kind of move in this way. You first see the cover, then this part, then you look here, and then you would scan this, and then this. I think.

Adam (40:57.602)
than the match score.

Adam (41:24.242)
Yeah, I think it's like the F kind of thing, like you go down, right, right.

Ste (41:25.197)
Yeah, that's my theory at least.

Ste (41:32.161)
Yeah, exactly. So with that, I mean, what would you want to see first? So I think even from this score, the big feedback was like, maybe have like the order here and.

Ste (41:50.853)
the average star rating. So the match percentage was there. I was thinking maybe we could even put it here. And it would leave a weird area over here. So I wanted something to go here that's fixed. But we can do it like this.

Adam (42:10.344)
Oh, you mean for like if a book isn't part of a series?

Ste (42:13.761)
Yeah, exactly. So if the match percentage goes here, maybe we could do this and have this here. But for lists that don't have an order, yeah. So the thing is, if that gets removed for it to not be on its own, so that you could have an element here, because this works less if you have

it like this, because here these are on the same line. Here it kind of messes stuff up. You have this area. And yeah, the spacing is very good with some fixed elements. Let me put that back.

Adam (42:43.146)

Adam (42:54.047)

Adam (43:01.862)
Yeah, I think I get what you're saying. It's like if you want books with a series and books without a series to both have the same like midline.

Ste (43:11.913)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, exactly. So even here, if it doesn't have, like, if it's not ordered, you'd see this over here, and you wouldn't see this number. But to have, like, at least, like, one element that stays there no matter what.

Adam (43:28.299)

Ste (43:29.337)
So the order is like it can be there or not, but the rating is definitely there. And yeah, for the mesh percent, and I'm thinking this, like if it's not available, we could just like show something like this. Or I mean, yeah, we can find a better formula, but have it there anyway.

Adam (43:55.306)
Yeah, and we could have it, like we could still, like even if we don't have this here, like having, like, yeah, it does look a little weird, but what a, what a, one thing that does jump out to me though is like having this, like as you were describing it, like, you know, you would,

Ste (44:12.771)
Yeah, I know. I've tried every positioning.

Adam (44:24.914)
scroll you would kind of look down and then right but to me like this is like probably the first thing that we would want someone to see like if this was a prompt to know like this is the number one book in the prompt

Ste (44:29.12)

Adam (44:42.038)
So it could go there, yeah.

Ste (44:46.489)
Yeah, because you have the rating, which is fixed. So that kind of solves the problem I had. So if it's there, if it's a book that doesn't or a list that isn't ordered, you just have this area where you can quickly see the average rating. And it wouldn't be weird if they don't show up. Or you could even have this, like this.

Ste (45:15.557)
But the problem here would be for unordered lists. Yeah, it's going to, I mean, this is not.

Terrible, don't get me wrong.

Adam (45:32.24)
Oh, yeah.

Ste (45:32.709)
Or like we could even like have the title here. And actually, yeah, maybe we can like space it out like this and get it.

Adam (45:43.986)
Yeah, because that's, this is what we do right now. I'm just checking the, the trending books page. And if a book isn't part of a series, then we align the title of the book with the top of the cover.

Ste (45:56.545)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, I'd prefer to have it in the same place so it doesn't like on some lists, it's not up top. And on some, you see it like as the first element. But I guess this works. So if you don't have like a numbered list or prompt, it's just like this. But the problem, yeah, it's still a problem because you're going to see some books like this and some books are going to have this.

Adam (46:19.281)

Adam (46:29.314)

Ste (46:31.043)
That's... I'd still prefer to have it like in the same... on the same line, I don't know.

Adam (46:44.53)
Yeah, I think.

Ste (46:45.773)
Do you think it would be, I mean, we could actually like.

Adam (46:51.614)

Ste (46:52.314)
in production, yeah.

So you could have this fourth wing, and this is fourth wing, but it's not like. Sorry, I'm on my trackpad now because my mouse is out of battery. So you'd see this like this. And then underneath it, you'd actually see one that is part of a.

part of a series.

Adam (47:29.642)
Okay, so this is for like a list, an unordered list where you have one without a series and one with a series. Yeah.

Ste (47:31.302)

Ste (47:36.24)

Ste (47:40.493)
If we move the match percentage here.

That could solve it, but we'd have like a match percentage for all the books, right?

Adam (47:49.812)

Adam (47:53.078)
No, it's not for all of them. And it won't be for ones that you've already read. So if you've already read it, it won't have a match percentage either.

Ste (48:00.345)
Hmm, okay.

Adam (48:02.526)
So I'd think of it more like a optional, assume it might not be there.

Ste (48:08.413)
Yeah, is there anything else we could put there? Because if this doesn't sit there, it sits here and you could have the rating there.

Adam (48:21.812)
I think it actually looks okay with it at the top. And like having it, yeah, like if it's at the top for there and then it's like slightly below it for here. I think those are okay.

Ste (48:26.509)
just like this.

Ste (48:38.269)
Okay, yeah, we could have the card view like that. It's a bit like, it leaves like a lot of space here, which is a bit, yeah, that's what I was trying to optimize, but I'm guessing, you know, we could do something. Hmm. So it works really well if the book is part of a series, but

Adam (48:45.542)

Ste (49:03.717)
There's like a lot of space for books like this here, which is like a problem we're having now, because there's like weird positioning of elements.

Adam (49:03.935)

Adam (49:17.602)
Yeah, I think I'm looking at our like trending list to see what the breakdown is. And it looks like of the top 25 trending books right now. Um, 19 of them are in series.

So this, the series, yeah.

Ste (49:35.517)
OK, so we might have. Yeah, see, I mean, let's do a side-by-side comparison here with this one. So even if we put this on the same line, so it has a bit more balance over here. And we could actually, I mean, we could put, if the rating is first, would you see that as a problem? Or?

Not a big fan?

Adam (50:05.506)
I would, yeah, I would think like, this is where you put like the second, like this is the most important thing, the cover. And this right here is the second most important thing about this book. And I think having it be the, like either the series or the title makes sense as the second most important thing.

Ste (50:13.24)

Ste (50:16.673)

Adam (50:29.458)
And optionally, and we could always put the title at the top and then move the series below the, um, yeah. I mean, I'm so used to seeing series first that it'll, this would take me some getting used to, but it would normalize it.

Ste (50:38.298)
It's going like this.

Ste (50:47.942)
Yeah, that's true. Well, this is like an example where there's a short title, a short author name, so maybe there's if it's longer title, it will look better. But

Adam (50:59.274)
Yeah, like, like a...

Ste (51:02.753)
Yeah, exactly. Whoop.

Adam (51:06.543)
Oh, that's a link. Yay. How do I undo?

Ste (51:07.977)

Ste (51:14.161)
Mupkip is asking, how would you add a reason if you don't already have one? OK, OK. Oh, yeah. Sorry, I got lost in the sauce, the card sauce.

Adam (51:19.658)
We talked about that one.

Adam (51:28.314)
Here we go, CF. It's a long title.

Ste (51:32.973)
Yeah, that's actually going to require some trimming maybe. Or we could play around with the, I mean, in actual code, basically.

Adam (51:37.143)

Adam (51:41.194)
Yeah, yeah, we could dynamically set the height or dynamically set the text size based on the length.

Ste (51:47.99)

Adam (51:52.281)
Um, yeah.

Ste (51:52.757)
Okay, we can do it like that. I mean, I don't mind. It's not like, uh, we can see when we code it because that's when you stuff will pop out, uh, pop up when you see the actual books. But I'm thinking, yeah, this is good.

Adam (52:11.634)
Yeah, I really like all of this, the reasons, the easy stats. And maybe we could, what do you think? Want to share this one, and then maybe this one, and then maybe make another version of this one with the reason? So it's like the.

a fourth wing one with the kind of like

Ste (52:41.206)
Oh yeah.

Ste (52:49.233)
So basically this one with all the reasons, but with fourth wing, right?

Adam (52:55.054)
Yeah, with like one reason, kind of like this bottom one, so that there's an expanded version and an expanded version of this fourth-wing card.

Ste (52:59.257)

Ste (53:12.829)

Ste (53:17.813)
And yeah, with all the details on that one.

Ste (53:23.417)
And this one since there's already a reason to have this one.

Adam (53:33.086)
Yeah, exactly.

Ste (53:37.105)
Nice. So for this, when you're in a prompt, and let's say, it's your reason first, I'm guessing. So if you answer the prompt, and there's your reason, and maybe there's a bunch of reasons underneath it, you would hit Edit on this. Let's see. This is like an Edit button.

and you'd be able to edit yours.

Adam (54:10.69)
Hmm, I see.

Ste (54:12.605)

Adam (54:15.09)
Yeah, I could see that.

Ste (54:15.457)
I'm thinking, yeah, that's like a case for the prompt. So you're in a prompt, you had this fourth wing, it's like your answer to that prompt, whatever it is, favorite book, worst book ever. And you want to edit your reason? You didn't like.

You had a typo and there's a bunch of people who also added their reason. I'm guessing the easiest thing would be to add your reason at the top and have an edit button next to it.

Adam (54:52.594)
Yeah, or it could be an edit button or it could be like a little edit icon. If it's yours, because then we could always show yours first. Or something.

Ste (55:18.125)

Ste (55:22.896)

Ste (55:27.731)
This one's yours.

Adam (55:32.514)

Ste (55:34.653)
TBD, I guess.

Ste (55:42.492)

Adam (55:46.038)
And then, let's see. Make this a little bigger. Ha.

Ste (55:49.348)
Let me make that section bigger. Yeah, here we go.

Adam (55:54.704)
I was thinking adding one that's a non. So we have.

Ste (55:55.485)
It's a lot here.

Adam (56:05.526)
We have the, like, this, the first one is like the list view. This one's like the prompt view. And this would be like the list view where...

Adam (56:28.482)
your editing. So this is like your, your list view where you've clicked add reason.

Ste (56:36.513)
Mm-hmm. And you are already editing, so it's maybe something like this.

Ste (56:53.713)
So kind of like this, you're with your cursor, you're editing and this is blinking and you're writing your reason. And then you wanna like save it. Should we do the same like save?

Ste (57:12.677)
in the same style.

Adam (57:17.758)
Yeah, we can do that. I could go either way.

Ste (57:17.906)
Or is it too small?

Ste (57:25.205)
Okay. Maybe can this auto save like at time interval? So it from time to time, as you're writing it, it says saving and then it's reversed to something to save basically. And it says saved when it's saved.

Adam (57:46.07)
We could, I'm thinking one of the parts that is good about having the save button is that after you click it, it could switch from being a form to being just the text version, at least until we get the full like Notion style editor. But once we get the Notion style editor, I think that we could switch to that because I think that would be easier.

Ste (58:08.346)
Okay, yeah.

Ste (58:16.085)
OK, that's perfect. I'm just going to leave it there so we remember.

Adam (58:26.738)
Oh yeah, someone said, Bunny said, would the reasons be sorted by recently updated or popularity? And yeah, we were debating that for this one, where it's maybe like we show the most liked ones first. But I think right now we don't have the ability to like a prompt reason. So maybe for the moment, it might be like the most recently added ones. And then after people s-

Maybe it's like most recently added with the secondary, most liked with the secondary of most recently added. Okay. It's a fallback sort option.

Ste (59:04.406)
Yeah, exactly.

Ste (59:11.173)
Sounds about right. And if we go here, we can have sorting on that page, like some basic sorting. Just a couple of options, I guess.

Adam (59:19.054)

Adam (59:22.326)

Adam (59:26.158)
I think...

probably one of the last parts, which I'm probably not gonna wanna get fully into for today, but for this down here, for a prompt, we'd have some additional things like the ability to upvote this one.

Ste (59:52.253)
Yeah, that was next on the list. Upvoting is...

Ste (59:59.225)
Should we I mean, yeah Let's not get fully into that I was gonna ask if we should switch that to be like alike so we can like only upvote Something and not downvote it Uh to be more consistent with what we have going on um Well Yeah, it's basically that um

Adam (01:00:03.243)

Adam (01:00:11.254)

Adam (01:00:23.09)
Yeah, that could work. You know, so you're thinking like change this up arrow to like a heart.

Ste (01:00:29.301)
Yeah, just like have like the heart. I mean, I'll vote thing is more, more of a, I like it better because it's more competitive. You know, I mean, you all vote something, you know, it's you and the book, you're pushing it up. Liking it is more like, Oh, I like this. Uh, but yeah, let's, let's think about it. I'm not actually sure. Once I've said it, let's put like the up vote and see

Adam (01:00:52.678)

Ste (01:01:00.785)
We could just put like an icon. I'll think of a nice icon with the up arrow. Oh, crap. OK, that's not working. So it's just up.

We wouldn't have done voting, right? We wouldn't like be implementing that. Just stop voting.

Adam (01:01:17.178)
Right. Yeah. There's like remove your up vote. So it's so it's kind of in that way, the heart actually makes more sense because like removing an up vote is like a little bit of an awkward experience as opposed to removing a like which is easier to I guess imagine.

Ste (01:01:23.139)

Ste (01:01:34.809)

Ste (01:01:40.093)
Yeah, that's also true. Pros and cons, I guess. But we could just make it, if it's a prompt, maybe like play around with the positioning, or maybe even, ah, here's a good place for it, where it could sit, or, and it has to have a number next to it, right? So it's.

Adam (01:02:04.158)

Ste (01:02:06.417)
Thank you.

Adam (01:02:09.538)
I mean, we have space. We could just move everything over.

Ste (01:02:14.866)
Yeah exactly, well it misaligns it.

Adam (01:02:20.404)

Ste (01:02:22.579)
I'm not a big fan of misalignment. What do I do with this? Like group it, god damn it, yeah.

Ste (01:02:32.817)
not 4.2, it's got 123 upvotes. And you're like, I think it's over here. And maybe it's narrower. And whoa.

Ste (01:02:48.441)
Hmm, yeah, maybe not on the cover.

Ste (01:02:55.205)
Maybe it could sit here. We could push it so it's over here. Wouldn't that make sense?

Ste (01:03:04.1)

Adam (01:03:11.547)
Yeah, at least this is only for one specific page for prompts. So if it ends up looking a little different than all the other ones, that'll probably be okay.

Ste (01:03:11.889)

Ste (01:03:17.22)

Ste (01:03:22.901)
Yeah, we'll move it around, we'll move it around, but yeah, maybe we can do the Sacing. It looks like that kind of thing where it might take a while.

Adam (01:03:33.668)
But yeah, I like where we reached for all these other ones.

Ste (01:03:37.697)
Yeah, lots of cases with these cards. So yeah, this is coming up next. Maybe we can do all the cases for these. And yeah, I guess the next step would be to start implementing them. But it's looking good. I'll share this in the Discord so people can actually see them, so everybody can see them. And we can vote.

Adam (01:03:57.458)
and enter.

Ste (01:04:07.385)
Yeah, just talk about what you like and what you don't.

Adam (01:04:11.21)
Yeah. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good, good stopping point for the day. Yeah. And all we're doing is like a card that shows up that just has the basic info about a book, but it's such a big thing. Like it's shown so many places across the app that like, it makes sense to spend the time to get it right.

Ste (01:04:13.597)
Sounds good, yeah.

Ste (01:04:20.001)
Yeah, that hour flew by.

Ste (01:04:30.396)

Ste (01:04:37.765)
Yeah, it's a high stake and it's also got lots of moving parts, although it doesn't look like it. But yeah, having that many elements in the design, I'm happy with it where it is right now. Still have to polish some edges, but should be good.

Adam (01:04:54.638)
I'm gonna go.

Cool, well, I think I'm gonna go work a bit more on letter books and get that, I'm working on the table view right now, which has been fun so far.

Ste (01:05:10.197)
Yeah, maybe we can chat about that. You mentioned there are some things to iron out on that as well. But yeah, maybe we can line up on that, and we can chat with everybody on Discord, and see where it ends up.

Adam (01:05:26.996)
Sounds good. Well, talk to you all later. And yeah, thanks everyone for joining.

Ste (01:05:28.422)

Ste (01:05:33.057)
Yeah, thanks for joining everyone. Have a good day. Bye-bye. See you.

Adam (01:05:36.312)