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Beyond The Brand is the podcast for purpose-driven entrepreneurs, creatives, and professionals who know their brand is about more than just business—it’s personal. Hosted by Brand Strategist Rod Brinson, this show dives deep into the mindset, habits, identity, and emotional intelligence that shape the way you show up in the world. From solo episodes to powerful conversations, Beyond The Brand explores what it really takes to build something meaningful—starting with the person behind the brand. Because if you’re not growing, your brand won’t either.
Excitement is, like, not the right word. I am humbled. I'm I'm grateful. I'm feeling, like, really energized and focused on what tonight means. I think too often we we take things for granted.
Rod Brinson:Right? And we we live our life and we just push forward and, you know, things happen to us or stuff comes in the way and it's like, why is this happening to me? Right? We get focused on the things we don't have instead of focusing on the things that we do have. And I think sometimes the people around us get overlooked because we're too busy looking up at the stars trying to connect to celebrities and things of that nature.
Rod Brinson:But the reality is who you are defines where you go. And nothing matters more than the person behind the brand, the person that is behind the emails and the content that's going out. And knowing that person and developing that person is probably the most essential thing you can do for your business. This person that I'm speaking with tonight is somebody that I consider a showstopper. Right?
Rod Brinson:If you're scrolling, you're looking through your stuff, you just, you know, doom scrolling for three hours and whatnot, which I do not do. Thank God. You come across one of her content pieces, you're gonna stop and pay attention. Not just because it's great information and because it's valuable to you, but more than anything because she's just who she is. And she doesn't shy away from any compartment of that.
Rod Brinson:But she also delivers value, like, consistently, and you can't hate on that. You have no choice but to love it. So tonight's special guest is none other than the what I consider the guru of content and branding, Nikki Saunders. So I'm a go ahead and invite her in, and we'll get this conversation. Welcome everybody.
Rod Brinson:It's always fun adding people into this Instagram Live. Nikki, what's happening? Man, living the life over here trying to figure it out one moment at a time. I appreciate you jumping on the live.
Nicky Saunders:Of course. Come on. You invited. I'm here.
Rod Brinson:I love it. I love it. Listen. The signature hat, the signature shoes in the background, I mean, when it comes to Brandon and you being who you are no matter what platform you own, like, I gotta respect that. But do you ever feel pressure to kinda, like, step out and do something different whenever you're on a different stage?
Rod Brinson:Or do you feel comfortable no matter where you go?
Nicky Saunders:No. I feel comfortable. I mean, when you do this after a while, like, you got it's it's it's the same situation, different place. You feel me? Like, I I'm not I'm not going to become a character because I'm at a different environment.
Nicky Saunders:Right? I'm not the the real situation is I'm not trying to, like, fit in because I can't I can't necessarily take that energy of I don't care that much to be like, what do you like? What is this? How is this? Da da da da.
Nicky Saunders:If I can't just be me and that doesn't necessarily work, that's not my place to be.
Rod Brinson:I love it. A lot of people struggle with that and I don't get it. I think that one thing we have in common is that as it relates to our brand and what we do and how we tell other people how they should do their, you know, business and brand better, it's to be yourself and to be yourself fully. I guess for all intents and purposes, know, understanding that you are at heart an introvert, most people wouldn't feel that that is the case and a lot of people who are introverts they don't have the same charisma in terms of like the desire to just be out front with who they are. Yeah.
Rod Brinson:Do you have any advice for people who might be watching who feel like I could never just be myself online?
Nicky Saunders:So but introverts don't necessarily have problems with themselves. I mean, you think about the being an introvert, it's about how we recharge. Right? And it doesn't necessarily always mean we're shy. It doesn't mean we don't, like, like doing videos or things like that.
Nicky Saunders:We may not be consistent with it, right, because it drains. But at the same time, it's more of how do we create a world that's safe? And so for me with content, I've created a world that's safe because I can turn this off in any moment. I can pop in, and I can turn it off at any moment. Like so if anybody's been on my lives on Mondays, I could go in for three hours.
Nicky Saunders:You won't see me for the rest of the week on that live. You know I mean? Like, because I go, and then I chill, and then maybe I'll pop up randomly, but probably not. Like, it it it because it takes up like, my whole Tuesday is straight up recharging from everything that happened the night before. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So finding those pockets of, like, how do I show up? What is the you know, I have a certain kind of system of going live, then cutting them up, posting them, so I don't have to necessarily feel the pressure of posting every single day something new. I can just go back to something else. From the written content, I just go back to what I did on Monday, see if I can reword it a little bit. Boom, boom, boom.
Nicky Saunders:And I like experimenting, right? Because I do feel like social media is a big experiment. Like, some things don't when you find your style, it doesn't stay like that forever. Yeah. So you you have a season of that style.
Nicky Saunders:And then what are you doing to kind of fix it? You know, like, everything's an experiment. I'm in the Substack experiment right now. Thirty days of just figuring out, is this a platform to pay attention to? Can I figure this out?
Nicky Saunders:You know I mean? Like and not feeling the pressure of, oh, I have to post forever. I'm not I don't wanna post forever. That's not what I wanna do. I only wanna post if I enjoy it.
Rod Brinson:That's big because I think a lot of people I get that question all the time. How often should I post? And you know I think that answer varies but at the end of the day you have to feel like it. You have because otherwise it's going to be half masked. It's not going to really be as potent as it would otherwise.
Rod Brinson:But to that same degree, it's not just about how you feel because I'm sure there are times where you're putting in the work, you're putting in the hours, you're editing a video, whatever, and it's like, man, I'd rather just go chill and watch a little TV. But you have a goal in mind at the same time. So with that said, man, I kind of want to jump into the topic for tonight which is you know your reputation is your currency. I don't think people put enough emphasis on you know the servitude side of what we do and being there for your brand, for other people's brand, giving of self and how it matters, right? If you say you're gonna do something, do it, you know?
Rod Brinson:Even like you've been on a live, you said, hey, I'll be there, right? And you're a woman of your word and I surely appreciate it. But everybody's not like that. I've gotten people to schedule calls and not show up and, you know, and everybody has those moments, right? But what would you say from somebody who's had your level of success and who's seen and helped like build other people's brands and see them be successful how important is a person's reputation and keeping their word and doing what you say you're gonna
Nicky Saunders:do? So I have a I have a different viewpoint on it. Right? Because I have the I have the I don't necessarily care what people think vibe. Mhmm.
Nicky Saunders:Right? And then I have the your character speaks for your reputation, and so you don't necessarily have to try too hard to build a reputation. Right? Character, morals, beliefs, you know, that you you are you walk of what you believe in. Right?
Nicky Saunders:And so it it's I don't necessarily focus as much as on reputation as far as I focus on being a better person.
Rod Brinson:And
Nicky Saunders:the more that I know about myself, and the more that I become a better person, then that just trickles down into everything else. My performance is better, the way I communicate is better, my relationships are better, because I've been focusing on who I am right now, at the same time, there are certain situations where I don't I believe I have a great reputation. But of course, there are some people that I just don't know what they think about me, nor do I sit up at night being like, oh my god, what do these people think about me? How can I change? I focus so much on the people who value me and who champion me more than the people in the background who may say something about me because I don't necessary I don't I'm an overthinker.
Nicky Saunders:Right? So I can if you get me in that mode, I could think of 19 different scenarios of what people may be saying about me because I put something out or I didn't show up to this event or this, that, and or I said no, you know, because I say no a lot. You know what mean? But at the same time, it's more of just be who you are, focus on the self improvement side of you, and then sleep well. That's that's how I I look at things.
Rod Brinson:Yeah. I I have a similar thought process. I tell people this all the time so it's so interesting hearing you say certain things because it like mirrors my thoughts. I stopped caring about what people think about me, know. I was not a person that was all in front of the camera.
Rod Brinson:I'm behind the scenes guy, You got a technical background, I got a technical background, but you know obviously in helping people build websites and doing that stuff, I got more into understanding it's really about the person and so I started building people. But within that I realized I needed to be a little bit more in front of the camera and the first thing I had to do was just come to grips with the reality that I can't control what people think. I'm not even gonna try, and if I spend any amount of time thinking about that I'm gonna self sabotage and come up with stories that may not even be true, right? But in addition to that, you know, you talked about a few things as it relates to, you know, you just being you, your character, your morals, those type of things. I would like you to tell us like a story that many people might not know about how your character and you just being yourself authentically, I know that's a cliche word, has opened doors for you and and put you in positions that you wouldn't have been had you not been kinda on top of your game.
Rod Brinson:Do you have anything you mind sharing from that perspective that people can gain from?
Nicky Saunders:I think that's my whole brand. Right? I I stay inside. You know what mean? Like, you don't see much content of me truly outside.
Nicky Saunders:I stay inside, and I focus on okay. How do I I don't focus on being an expert. I focus on being a student of the game and sharing what I learned. And because I share what I learned, it allows people to be like, hold on, I need you to talk about this over here. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So all the opportunities that I've ever gotten has been just because I post consistently and I'm me. One thing that everybody will say is like, yo, Nikki, you are just you. This is who you are online and offline. So there because I focus on like, yo, me just showing up, me practicing and having the discipline to be consistent, me not coming off strong on some I'm an expert and here do all these different things and blah blah blah. Like, no, I'm not gonna do that has allowed me to meet people that I've seen growing up, right, on TV and movies have allowed me to be on stages in places that I never thought I could be in.
Nicky Saunders:And I don't I didn't have to shake hands and kiss babies and be outside of my element, like some tips and tricks have said. Right? Now my journey isn't going to work for everybody. Right? It's worked for me.
Nicky Saunders:And that's what I always say. It's like, I'm sharing what works for me in hopes that you can pick something out and kind of remix it in in your own way. But my whole brand and what has happened to me in my life has been just a testament of me just being me.
Rod Brinson:I love that. That's amazing. And and I think it speaks volumes to what we're saying. Right? And and this is why it's important.
Rod Brinson:Like, everybody reposted the stuff with the guy and the mistress we'll say at the co podcast.
Nicky Saunders:Oh okay I was like, what you talking about? Yeah yeah.
Rod Brinson:But you know, I always think about it from a different angle. It's like if this guy had like really sat down and looked in the mirror and thought through and decided to live his life a little bit differently, maybe he wouldn't be in that predicament, you know? So people I mean, yeah,
Nicky Saunders:it looked like he was living his life. He just got caught. Right. I don't know. I think he was was having the time.
Rod Brinson:But is he having the time now? Yeah. He's having a different time now.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. But I don't know if that has anything to do with being authentic. I think that's just having bad decisions.
Rod Brinson:Well, no. No. I'm not necessarily saying he needed to be authentic. I'm saying he needed to do some inner work. I'm
Nicky Saunders:saying Oh for look
Rod Brinson:in the mirror and say, man, you know, I'm not living the life I should live. Let me change that. And it's the same thing with people in their businesses and whatnot. If you're not operating in a consistent manner, you're not putting in the work, if you're not you know digging deep and not just reaching for viral videos right, if you don't know what you're talking about and you're just getting on a podcast, I can go on and on but my point is there's some work involved. You know one thing I like about your brand is that when you get on these lives and you do your thing you're not afraid to say let me try this out.
Rod Brinson:I haven't seen this yet. Let let me see how this works and and then you share that information, right? Some people are afraid to fail in front of people. Some people are afraid to be themselves and I think it's important to do both. I think it's important to to learn your craft but also it's okay to show who you are in the process.
Rod Brinson:So do you have any thoughts on like how a person who's just starting out who doesn't understand social media, like they've done the YouTube training where they're watched for hours and they're starting to implement some stuff but they still feel like these metrics aren't really lining up with what they hope to see, do you have any encouragement for those people who might post something that they put a lot of time into And they just feel like, nobody watched it. So I'm wasting my time.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. It's and I put this out on my newsletter today, where everything going back to earlier, everything is an experiment. Right? And so where if you put if you say, yo, for three weeks straight, I'm going to do this types of video. Right?
Nicky Saunders:I'm gonna do this types of video. And at the end of these three weeks, I'm gonna see one, how I felt, and two, how these metrics fit. In those in the time that I'm doing this, I'm not gonna really hold weight to metrics. Right? Because things could fluctuate.
Nicky Saunders:Like some post, and we've seen it, and type me in the chat if you've seen it, where you'll post something, let's say, today. In two weeks, it starts to get some traction. Right? And you're at first thought that was a failure because we're constantly looking at metrics every single day. We're grading our own selves over and over again.
Nicky Saunders:Right? But sometimes we just gotta let some things marinate. Like Yeah. We are putting out things majority of us are putting out things that hasn't been put out in in that specific way, maybe that same topic, maybe that same, you know, material product, whatever. But in the perspective that you're putting in, it takes a little bit of education for the person to understand what you're saying, or see it in the way that you do.
Nicky Saunders:So sometimes the things that we put out is just going to take time. Right? And numbers don't determine how valuable the information, the motivation, the entertainment that we put out. It doesn't it doesn't like, yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't hold up. Wait.
Nicky Saunders:So I think if we are in that mode of like, damn, this is just not working like this this these numbers don't add up. Start start doing an experiment. You know what? I'm going to do this for umpteen many days. And if not, then I'm going to look at a different platform, or I'm gonna look at a different content format, or I'm gonna look at like, some of us are on a platform way too long than what we're supposed to be.
Nicky Saunders:You have no business being on the platform. It's not it's not natural to you. And so you focus on what comes natural to you, and what doesn't feel like a chore at first. And then you have so much content, that you're able to repurpose it on all these other platforms until you want to focus on another one. Said I said this yesterday in a call, where each platform has its own language.
Nicky Saunders:Right? Some of us can't learn five different languages at the same time. We may have to learn one language at a time. I'm going to, right now, Substack, and that may be Spanish to me. And so I have to learn, like, beginner and middle level Spanish to feel comfortable to have a a conversation, right, to then maybe explore French.
Nicky Saunders:Maybe. But until I can have a conversation over here, I have no business trying to learn a different language. It's the same thing with social media.
Rod Brinson:That's big. That's major. I don't I haven't heard it from that perspective, The language thing is just why I said bars because I mean, like, put some fire in the chat if you feel like Nikki is dropping gems tonight because I'm feeling it. I don't know about y'all. This is amazing.
Rod Brinson:Okay? But, you know, you bring up an interesting point. Like not only are you trying out Substack, which is a new platform, but you understand that you can't just go to this platform with the same approach and strategy that you do on YouTube or you know threads or whatever the case may be. Like you have to adjust to whatever that platform is with the mindset that you're a student and you're learning and it's a language that you haven't heard before. That's that is that is remarkable.
Rod Brinson:You probably need to just go ahead and write that book. Yeah, that's to add author to the end and yeah, that's great. Nikki, I'm curious, like, what's some of the most misconstrued or misunderstood things that people have said or thought about you based off of the content that you put out and things like that? Like, I'm I'm curious to know if somebody has this, like, one thing you always hear and you're like, I don't understand why people think this about me.
Nicky Saunders:Oh, that I'm tall.
Rod Brinson:I wish it was a little
Nicky Saunders:Everybody is like, you are a lot shorter than I expected. And I'm like, I state that I'm five two all the time. I state. You must you must think literally, that's really it. That and the whole they they can't believe that I'm an introvert.
Nicky Saunders:But when they meet me, they understand. Oh, yeah. No. You are you're absolutely an introvert because I'll dip out in two point three seconds. I'm not I'm not, hey.
Nicky Saunders:How is everything like that? You know what mean? Like so, yeah, those are the only two that that I know of. Extrovert and they think I'm tall or taller.
Rod Brinson:They think they don't know how tall I am. Everybody thinks I'm like average or short. I'm six four. So it's like when they see me in person, go, oh, I didn't know you was tall. So I feel that a thousand percent.
Rod Brinson:And while we're on this, you know, casual topic, I'm curious, like, what are some of your pet peeves? What are things that you just it irks you, but it's not really that big of a deal and it's like, I can't stand this.
Nicky Saunders:In what in what topic? I mean, pet peeves there's pet peeve for everything. What you talking Right.
Rod Brinson:So so for me, this is a a worldwide announcement. My pet peeve is when people spell out my name, which is Rod, and call me Rob with a B. I am just like, did you not see the email? Did you not see I don't understand this. You know?
Rod Brinson:It happens so often, it's frustrating. So I know there's like a little small thing, but
Nicky Saunders:that's my pet peeve. So that's what
Rod Brinson:I mean. Something like that.
Nicky Saunders:Oh, well, we're talking about that. I would say everybody spells my name n I c k I or n I k k I in my comments in my comments when my name is n I c k y. Yeah. I don't
Rod Brinson:I don't understand how that happens.
Nicky Saunders:But Yeah.
Rod Brinson:It happens to me in email. It happens to me like with No.
Nicky Saunders:It happens me in my comments. Every like, you my name is right there, and you're still spelling it wrong. It's hilarious to me. And so I it hey. I I don't even correct it anymore.
Nicky Saunders:I'd like, you mean well. You mean you mean well.
Rod Brinson:It's no big deal. And that's and that's why I said it because like I've had to work on that like really work on it and and then working on it I realized like that's a character flaw for me you know, to be frustrated to a point where like it's a mistake and here I am thinking about it. And so I brought that up for a reason because I think many of us have things that we don't like or that we go through in life and business in, you know, so many different ways and we take things personal when it's really not, you know. And sometimes we do things with an expectation attached to it when we should just do things because we want to do them or it's out of the kindness of our heart or you know whatever it might be. Do you know of some methods or some tactics that people can begin to like implement from a personal standpoint to pull back like whether it's getting a therapist, whether it's reading a book or meditating or you know any practices that you know of from a personal standpoint that a person can really like begin to research okay is it me or is it you know this situation how can I better myself so that my reputation goes before me
Nicky Saunders:I could tell you what I do? I think every day I journal. Right? Every day I journal. I'm I'm I'm in I'm in the bible.
Nicky Saunders:I'm praying. And then also, meditating for about, you know, five to ten minutes at least bare minimum. Mhmm. Because I act like I I ask and then I listen. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Shout out to Keon. He told me that prayer, you you you speak and then meditate, you listen. Right? And so I think with that kind of routine that I have right? And that's not always back to back to back.
Nicky Saunders:I've tried to do back to back. But for the most part, I could I could only focus on here is the problem. Let me speak about the problem. Let me speak to a higher power about the problem, and then let me just kind of listen and assess what is really going on. Right?
Nicky Saunders:And in which I always ask, is there something that I could have done different? You know? I never I never look at situations where it's it's them or this environment or the situate things like that. It's like, what could I have done different in how I prioritize this? How could I have done different how I entered inside of this event, and I necessarily didn't speak to too many people?
Nicky Saunders:Like, how how I'm just more on the how for me, and so it could trickle down into everything else.
Rod Brinson:Mhmm. I love that. You said you you journal every day. I got a journal. When I write in it, I know that it's doing something but I don't, definitely don't do it consistent enough.
Rod Brinson:I do have some other you know habits and stuff. I'll go walking outside and ground and you know like you said I'll pick my bible up. I normally do some of that stuff early in the morning and then I got a late night routine where I'm like researching stuff or preparing for the next day but journaling, I guess it's for a a outlet, but I've never really tapped into it enough to to feel the effects of it. Or if I am feeling it, I don't really know that I am. Is it because you're just like a person with words or writing?
Nicky Saunders:No. I don't I'm not a I'm not a writer. I'm a I'm not a writer. So here's the thing. So I've I've read this book, The Artist's Way.
Nicky Saunders:Right? So I had I dealt with really bad burnout. And so nothing was coming in at all. I was just moving in kind of just what already was. So in Artist's Way, it tells you to write three pages a day.
Nicky Saunders:And when you are not a writer, that is one of the hardest things in the world. Right? And so once again, it's one of those experiments. You do something for a certain amount of time and which if you do it as an experiment, you kind of push yourself to do that. Right?
Nicky Saunders:After that, I kind of put my spin to it of writing and putting it into ChatGPT. So it's not just me releasing, it's me releasing and then analyzing. Right? And then I realized that once I started once the experiment finished, it was like, okay, how do I keep up with this journaling in a more consistent way? So now I use Notion, and they have AI meeting notes.
Nicky Saunders:And so you can just talk to it, and it transcribes and everything like that. So on my walks, when I'm either walking my dog or just regular walks, that is my that is my form of journaling to then still put it into TattooBT and have it analyzed and things like that. So journaling is can it doesn't always necessarily mean writing. It's just releasing the thoughts because sometimes you gotta just do that and then see how it's because me sometimes write for one, I have bad handwriting. I'm a techy person.
Nicky Saunders:So Fame. Fame. Yeah. So it's it's I hate looking at it. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So when I put it into ChatGBT and it lays it all the way out, I have it speak to me. Right? Because me reading some of my stuff, don't want to either. But when it speaks to me, then certain things starts making sense, and I can have a conversation about a particular part of it or a particular idea, and where my thoughts now are starting to be things that are coming to life with either my business, whether my relationship, whether just me personally, because I'm having further conversation of this journaling part.
Rod Brinson:Man, that's so man. I hope y'all took notes on that because I'm over here, like, about to grab Notion today. I I heard of Notion. I played around with it a little bit, but I went away from it. I definitely tap into speaking into ChatGPT and doing that piece.
Rod Brinson:But like you use Poppy AI as well and Hey Jim, right? We talked about that the other day. Do you feel like there's a limit? Do you feel like it's like, you know what, I got enough to play with, let me just like zone in here or do you feel like there is no limit? It's like you might as well try it and see if it fits, right?
Rod Brinson:Because there's always going to be something new. How do you feel about the the limitation of you being able to take on more as it relates to AI tools?
Nicky Saunders:I have ADHD. So I'm I'm shiny tool syndrome all day. Right? Mhmm. But at the same time, what I try and what I use is two different things.
Nicky Saunders:You feel what I'm saying?
Rod Brinson:Yeah.
Nicky Saunders:So I have a I call it, like, I have a playground. Like, I can try all the different AI tools and different systems and different all these different things. I could play around with it all day. There's gonna be some staple ones that I'm going to use all the time, and it's gonna take a minute until somebody knocks that down Yeah. To something else.
Nicky Saunders:You know? So, like, I'll I'll always have ChatGPT to talk to and and brainstorm and that whole nine, but I have Poppy that will allow me to create the system. Right? Like a set it and forget it situation. And then there's not so much talking.
Nicky Saunders:There's more, hey, I need this to be done. Right? Where ChatGBT is, hey, let's talk. Let's talk this out. Right?
Nicky Saunders:And so then also with, like Opus clip, I'll take one of the videos that I have, I'll put it in there and just cut it up in the ways that I need it to be. And I look at certain AI tools of what I need, not what is cool, what's trending, Here are the things that I need. Right? Notion is my, like, all in one spot, meaning like all my thoughts, all my systems, all that that's going to be in Notion as like a I can search, hey, I said this, and it comes up with everything that I said. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Where I know I can't necessarily do that in ChatGBT. And so this is more of a central location of everything that has been done. It's my second brain. Right? So I probably have about, like, five tools on a reg that I do when it comes to AI.
Nicky Saunders:And then the rest is just like, let's try it. And it may feel like fill that situation for one day or for a certain situation that I I come about, but it it won't be in that tech stack that I will use all the time. And like I said, it'll take a minute to, like, kinda knock that down.
Rod Brinson:Right. Because they're staples. They they've proven themselves. You got value out of them. You know how to use them.
Rod Brinson:All of that good stuff. So on that same note, I was having a conversation last night at a networking event and it was a young lady who was just like completely against ChatGPT and you know when she first said it I was in my mode of, well let me educate you because you got to get on this, right? But as she continued to talk she made a valid point and I hadn't thought about it from this point of view and I'm curious you know what your thought process is. How can one protect themselves against getting so ingrained in utilizing these tools that they either lose some of their soft skills or it's so watered down that they no longer know how to write because they're just copying and pasting and you know all of these things. I know that's probably another one of your pet peeves is seeing some of the the grammar that chat GBT might use in some paragraphs when people are copying and pasting.
Rod Brinson:Like how do you maintain your humanness, your brand, and and and you being you in the midst of using all of the technology around you?
Nicky Saunders:So I look at it a bit different. It it doesn't actually bother me with the AI writing. The the reason why it doesn't bother me is because you had to still put some type of input in there. True. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So now the level of input that you put, I can tell. Right? Because if it's just trash, it's just trash. Right? But there's some AI posts that are really, really good because of the back and forth that you give it.
Nicky Saunders:Right? And sometimes it just sounds so good that you're gonna have to copy and paste it because you couldn't have said it better yourself. Like so for me, I I learn a lot going back and forth with AI. Right? I learn a lot, probably a lot more than I ever have.
Nicky Saunders:So one of the things I I'll I'll give a real case scenario where I'm trying to improve on my storytelling. Right? And so one of the videos broke down about Steve Jobs and how he tells stories. And so, of course, you want to take the the framework and copy it, right, to understand it and put your own swag to it. So it took a minute for me to understand it, see how it really comes to play.
Nicky Saunders:And now I feel comfortable with, okay, you know what, I don't necessarily have to use AI to write my own story in that kind of way. Right? I don't have to be dependent, but I do, from learning purposes, have to be dependent on it for a little bit. Right? And it's the same kind of way of how I always use the example of music producer Swiss Beats.
Nicky Saunders:When he first started, he admitted, yo, I copied every single beat from the ones that I had that I thought were great to the T, boom, boom, boom, so I can understand the foundation. Right? And then I put my own swag in it. And I figured out my own style, after I learned the foundation. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So I'm I'm big on allowing AI to teach you the foundation, but you still have to tweak it a little bit. Right? So when I was in that learning mode, I didn't necessarily copy and paste everything inside of my post and things like that. But I did take parts of it, put it there. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Take parts, put see how it worked. And and I'm testing it out on my YouTube channel. And you could tell with the analytics of when did they drop off because of the retention. Right? So in real time, I'm like, okay, I gotta improve this.
Nicky Saunders:Maybe this didn't work. So the one that I did straight up AI ish, I could tell through the analytics that ain't it. Cool. Now let's try it with me adding this and that. Right?
Nicky Saunders:So I don't believe and it and it's more of who you are. I don't believe that people are going to lose their skills if they are true people that trying to get better every 1%. Right? I I don't I don't believe that. Now the average person will lean on it, and then that is it.
Nicky Saunders:Absolutely. Yeah. And and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing because it is a tool that is going to help us get our time back. Right? And so you're going to need that average type of stuff so the great ones could look good.
Rod Brinson:Ah, okay.
Nicky Saunders:You feel what I'm saying? So
Rod Brinson:Yeah.
Nicky Saunders:I'm not I'm not mad. And what I do get frustrated about is the people who continue to complain about it Mhmm. Then be the change. Right? It it's it's all about that.
Nicky Saunders:Like, please be the change that you wanna see. If you don't like to see fully blown AI stuff, then create something that's not fully blown AI stuff. That's it. That will add value to somebody. But you just complaining about it, and yet you haven't really put out anything, I I can't take you serious.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. I can't I I will respect the person who is at least trying to post something that makes some kind of sense and maybe not all the way sense. Right? But some kind of sense, then rather you're nothing and you're complaining this. That's that's just be the change.
Rod Brinson:Be the change. I love that. Like, you know, it's nothing wrong with trying these tools. I have definitely tapped all the way in. Owning a marketing agency I have no choice but to use AI because you can't really do a lot of work if you're not taking advantage of tools around you.
Rod Brinson:But I also believe in posting original content. I also believe in being myself and you know I teach my clients the same thing when it comes to brand strategy. Like the biggest thing you can do for your brand is to be yourself and get more and more comfortable with that. But you use two choice words in what you just said. You said testing and practice.
Rod Brinson:And I think it's a lost art, know. I think it's a lot of, you know, Allen Iverson's running around here. Practice?
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. Practice?
Rod Brinson:No, no, it's necessary. Even someone of your caliber saying the word practice means that you can't just sit around and expect to get better. Yeah. You know, if Steph Curry and LeBron James still have to practice, then why shouldn't you? Yeah.
Rod Brinson:You know, so I'm definitely down for that. One thing I want to ask you as it relates to you practicing and you testing things out, do you find it better to primarily focus on the hooks, like the first three to five seconds of stuff or is it like all around the content, the titles, the captions? Do you focus on all of the areas or you primarily like no like if I just do this one thing and test this out it'll it'll yield me the results that I'm looking for.
Nicky Saunders:I think it's a one one at a time situation. So meaning, like, right now, I'm in the process of, like, really mastering YouTube. And so one of the the biggest things, like, is, you know, figuring out that packaging because YouTube is a packaging system where if they don't click, they don't watch. Right? Colin and Samir say this all the time.
Nicky Saunders:And so what how do I figure out the thumbnails and the titles? And so once I figure that out, then, okay. How do I figure out the hook? Okay. Cool.
Nicky Saunders:Then alright. How do we figure out to improve the retention? Cool. Like, it's a one step process each time. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Okay. I fixed this. That's cool. Let's get on to the next one. I don't necessarily try to overwhelm myself because then I will burn out and I won't do anything.
Nicky Saunders:So it's it's more towards that. I understand the first three seconds is the most important. So there is some type of energy that goes around there. Right? And making sure you know exactly what this is about.
Nicky Saunders:But for the most part, if I'm I'm at a, boom, I gotta do this, then I gotta do this, and then I gotta do this. And then we'll have a well rounded part, and then we will go back to the data and see what else do we need to fix and put tweaks on it and that whole nine. And it's it's a process and I don't try to get it right automatically or right away. I just try to just, you know, in time, hopefully get 1% better every single day.
Rod Brinson:I hear that a lot when it comes to people in the YouTube strategy specifically, you know, it's like, hey, I'm just going to commit to posting a video every week, you know for ten years or whatever whatever I it started posting some long long form content a while back. I definitely was not consistent with it. I want to revisit it but I want to like create a strategy around it before I do it. I've heard that it's important to maybe have a set of topics or something that you know you want to talk about in a specific lane before you go to do it. Do you have any specific methodology that you use or are you more like I'm open, like whatever I feel in the moment or whatever is new that I want to teach people on or talk about, what's your methodology for your creation process?
Rod Brinson:Like, how do you come up with what you're going to talk about?
Nicky Saunders:So what's what's great is that AI can tell you all the topics you need. Right? You gotta tell it the audience. Right? I don't try to act as if I know everything about my audience because people change at all sites.
Nicky Saunders:Right? So I at least get the research done of here who who's my audience? Age range, location, all of that from the data that I'm already given. Please let me know. I I know I I deal with overlooked creators and introverts, right?
Nicky Saunders:Mhmm. If we get real specific, I have people who have a nine to five who have a desire to allow their brand to take over those bills, right? And then I have like a small percentage that are just pure content creators, right? So I'm going into ChatGPT. I'm going into hitting deep research.
Nicky Saunders:And I'm like, yo, tell me everything that is a pain point. Right? Because the pain points are the topics. And then I'm looking up those topics and seeing if there's already content out on it. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Because there's there has to be a balance of proven proven topics and risk. Right? So some of us sometimes just go straight risk. Well, if they haven't talked about it, that means there's a gap, and I'm going to talk about it. But that means also, possibly, they're not looking it up either.
Nicky Saunders:Wow. Right? So there has to be a balance of I do wanna be one of one in the first to something. But I also want to prove that I'm someone that you need to listen to. And so I have to address some of the things that people are looking up, in my own perspective, catch their attention to then let's let's then talk about this.
Nicky Saunders:Then let's talk about this. And if there is, yo, I've been needing this. Let's double down on that. Right? Your your analytics and your comment section is going to tell you a lot.
Nicky Saunders:Now let's just say you don't have the comments yet, then your analytics is going to show if there was a peak. And a a peak could literally be 10 more views, 20 more views, 30 more views. It don't have to be viral. Right? And everybody's viral is different.
Nicky Saunders:Right? Some people's viral is is 2,000 views because they were averaging a 100.
Rod Brinson:Right.
Nicky Saunders:So, you know, you you you gotta look at things in a in the level that you're at. I don't look at the level past where I'm at, and I used to. Because there's so much content out there, it's hard not to be like, damn. Like Yeah. I've been doing this for a little bit.
Nicky Saunders:Right? Like, it should start work this person just but we don't know the journey behind that. Right? So I don't judge nobody's journey. I focus on mine, and I focus on, okay, this is where I'm at.
Nicky Saunders:This is what I need to do. Boom, boom, boom. But it's really about truly knowing your audience to get to that next level. The more that you know your audience, the more the trigger words you can say in your content, right in your content that they're like, you're specifically talking to me. And I rather have a community driven brand than a numbers brand.
Rod Brinson:Community driven brand versus a numbers brand. I'm a put that on a t shirt. I'm a send it to you because that's dope. I love it. You said something I was gonna bring up, you brought it up yourself.
Rod Brinson:You focus on the customer and what they want and you've said this in countless videos. I think people it's a lost art, right? People want to do what they want to do or they want to do what they like and and only focus on what they feel good about and then when the things don't perform how they want them to perform they're confused.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah.
Rod Brinson:So talk about that for a minute. Like why is it important to center yourself around what your audience wants? Like it seems simple but some people just don't get it. So I would love for you to talk about that a little bit because I get it and it makes sense from a marketing standpoint, from a branding standpoint, and even just from a person standpoint. If you're serving people, then you have to give them what they want.
Rod Brinson:If I go to a restaurant and I order a hamburger and they bring me some chicken, I'm gonna go, what is this? Right? So why is that a lost art for the most part? I think it is. And and why do you concentrate on that being the key for your success?
Nicky Saunders:So 90% of us create brands for others and not for ourselves. So why am I creating content that only pleases me?
Rod Brinson:Mhmm.
Nicky Saunders:You know mean? Like, so I'm gonna have to know my audience because I'm creating for them. The more that I know about them, the more that it will be successful. The less that I know about them and the more that I think this is what they need. And I think this is like now granted, a lot of us create content based off the old our old self.
Nicky Saunders:Right? Without all the knowledge and the experience that we have, we're probably speaking to the old older version of us. So what did we need back then? And that could start you. Absolutely.
Nicky Saunders:But then still get outside of yourself. Do the research of somebody who was you. What else do they go through? Because your experiences is limited. This is why people seek to travel and meet other people because exposure is everything.
Nicky Saunders:Right? But the the more that we understand the audience that we are creating for, it it reflects in the conversions of either loyalty or money. Right? Hopefully, it's both. Right?
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. Hopefully, it's both. But it's it's something that, like, the only ones that I I know for sure that, like, create for themselves are artists, like, pure pure artists. Like, I'm creating this, and I'm just sharing it with y'all. And y'all like it?
Nicky Saunders:Cool. But really, I'm just I'm just vibing, and I'm giving it I'm I'm painting. I'm I'm making this music, and this is this is what it is. And they're not necessarily doing it for a success level. If you want a success level, then you're creating for people.
Nicky Saunders:Right? If you are just wanting to share who you are and what you do, then that is a that is an artist level. Right? And that does two different routes.
Rod Brinson:That's major. That's so major. It brings me back to my music studio days and people just being in there creating for the sake of creating. Like, it's one thing to just be in your zone, it's another thing to like try to do something successful which is why you got people creating commercial pop hits and stuff like that or at least attempting to because they're like okay we need a radio song right back in the day. Nowadays you can create whatever it would be a radio song.
Rod Brinson:We're not going to go there. But no, you bring up a valid point. Know it's two different lanes. You're either focused on the artistry side where it's just, hey I love this content, I want to share it with the world, or you're specifically looking to serve people and gain success out of it. So very valid point.
Rod Brinson:Look I don't want to keep you long I feel like we could talk about this forever. We're both in the Brandon field and it's a people thing, right? We care about people. We care about serving people, and I think it's amazing what you're doing. I support everything that you got going.
Rod Brinson:Of course. I've been I've been following you thirty days on Substate, but I I just refuse to download the app right now. I just Fine.
Nicky Saunders:It's fine.
Rod Brinson:I'll I'll I'll support you vicariously through your post.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. I'll put it I'll continue to put it on stories. You're good. Alright. I'm alright.
Nicky Saunders:We're at I at 90 I think think we're at 96 subscribers on there so we're we're good I'm good
Rod Brinson:that's okay you're doing your thing and I'm gonna be right here supporting it but I will continue to support your your YouTube and your lives and stuff like that like guys if you're not already subscribed to Nikki's channel you are missing out please take a moment and go to her page follow her subscribe to her dropping nothing but gems all the time and she's also helpful she's not in it to just get views and things of that nature. She does not gatekeep information. If she finds something that's helpful she's going to share it with her audience. So be a part of her audience. But last thing I want to ask you when it comes to your community like what made you strike that up?
Rod Brinson:Where are you with it now? And and where do you see it going in the future?
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. That's such a loaded question, and I love it all. I love it all. Yeah. It was like, what is it?
Nicky Saunders:What where is it going? What do you want from life?
Rod Brinson:That's funny.
Nicky Saunders:So Lyon's behavior was birth off of burnout. So like I said earlier, I went through a really major burnout. And the thing that helped me was community. Right? The thing that was like that kept me going was people like, yo, you good.
Nicky Saunders:You're alright. Like, take your time, things like that. Right? Which allowed me to now create at a level that I never thought that I could, right? So I wanted to provide a safe space that in such a wild digital world of pressure, of having to look a certain kind of way, post certain amount of things, get it right all the time.
Nicky Saunders:First launch has to be successful. Right? I wanted to create a space that, like, yo, first, are you good? Right? Like, do we have like, the I I believe that if we have certain behaviors in place that the creation isn't going to be hard.
Nicky Saunders:Like, sometimes we do as as especially for introvert like me, I can sit in this chair forever. Right? So am I getting outside or moving in some way, shape, or form? I do a 100 push no. I don't want the other people to do a 100 push ups every day, but I do a 100 push ups.
Nicky Saunders:I walk. You know I mean? It helps me. Some people are just like, yo. I get up.
Nicky Saunders:I I go one time around the walk. I'm cool. Like, I'm I'm good. Cool. Straight.
Nicky Saunders:Right? I the whole taking taking a break. Right? So the breed behavior, taking a break, praying, meditating, whatever you may need to do, learning. Are we like, being a student of the game, we sometimes get too comfortable with the skills that we already have.
Nicky Saunders:So how are we learning something? Right? How are we creating? Not only creating when inspired and then like, how are we connecting? Those are the behaviors that had helped me get through burnout.
Nicky Saunders:And so when I was on live, people were asking, hey, I need that. I need to do this, whatever you did for we need to do that together. Right? And so on the live birth the hats. So when you tap the hat, it unlocks the community.
Nicky Saunders:Right? It's not just okay, I represent lion's behavior. No, it like unlocks, you know, exclusive content, it unlocks the community and gets inside of there to where inside I'm realizing, yo, let's do let's do certain sprints for fourteen days. Let's create something. Let's see how that feels.
Nicky Saunders:Yo, for thirty days, every quarter, let's just focus on the lifestyle side of things. You know? Who else is going through a monetization track? Let's figure let's figure out how to do a landing page together. Let's figure out how to so creating a space that makes getting it wrong normal, being confident in the skills that you have in a smaller space because outside will make you feel like, hold on.
Nicky Saunders:Maybe maybe I am doing this wrong. You know mean? Maybe maybe I'm I'm I'm doing this wrong. Right? You know, having having the prompts to have those conversations inside of AI to be like because, like I said, I'm an introvert, so I'll talk to you.
Nicky Saunders:But, like, I could talk way more to AI sometimes having a back and forth conversation, then go to a human being and be like, hey, does this make sense? So I'm I'm I'm doing that now. We're we're creating an LB club, right, where we're figuring out we're doing, like, feedback sessions. We're treating it it's like a run club for entrepreneurs and those who are nine to five creators. Right?
Nicky Saunders:And so I'm going back and forth with GBT, not from a copy and paste on some, hey, does this make sense? Like, what is what do these people need? Boom, boom, boom, boom. Cool. Great.
Nicky Saunders:Then I gave it to my team. Hey, does this make sense? Cool. Then I go into the community. Hey, if this is you, say me.
Nicky Saunders:So once again, that whole feedback of like, does you know, altogether. But I'm realizing that there needs to be a place where you are your authentic self, you are creating impact, as well as monetizing somehow, some way without burnout. Right? So that that is what lion's behavior is, is just moving authentically yourself in a very bold way while getting some coins doing it. Right?
Nicky Saunders:But also just having that balance of, like, okay. I'm not I'm not exhausted. I don't feel like this is a task. And if I if I do, I know exactly what to do to get me out of it. I know I know that feeling.
Nicky Saunders:Right? So it was really important for me to create a space in that kind of sense. So that yeah. That's what that's what lion's behavior is truly, truly about. Some people are just gonna be like, oh, it's the hat.
Nicky Saunders:I was like, had nothing to do with the hat. Yeah. Had nothing to do with this lion at all, doggy. Like, it has everything to do with the safe place that we don't necessarily have in even some of these big entrepreneurship communities because you buy a course and it's, like, dead silent. And it's, like, we got people who are crying on these calls on some, like, yo, I opened up my first place.
Nicky Saunders:Yo, like, me and my wife are great. Like, it it just there's a whole side of this creator world or business owner turned creator that just doesn't necessarily get talked about or or exposed enough.
Rod Brinson:So Oh, for sure. And and I'm so glad you talked about it. I appreciate you giving that explanation. I see the hat all the time. I've heard you talk about tapping it so I knew what it does but some people may not but that was great.
Rod Brinson:I do have my own community, it's Build Your Brand University. Some of my people are on here watching this live and coming in and I appreciate y'all showing up and it's the same thing. It's a safe space for us to try it out, to figure it out together, to bond, to get advice, things of that nature. And I'm glad you said those sprints thing, right? Like we just did a sprint called No Days Off for July.
Rod Brinson:We're on day 25 and I mean it's people who didn't have a brand at all, they just had an idea and now at day 25 they're posting videos and talking about what it is they do and stuff. So seeing the growth that a community of people can provide is just amazing. So like you said, serving people, being yourself, pushing hard, learning, you know, failing fast, all of that stuff is necessary. But I want to leave the people with this. Nikki said she is learning to, and I might paraphrase this out, to not care as much about what people say or may think when it comes to her doing her.
Rod Brinson:And I want you guys to take that same mantra, right? Don't be so afraid to be yourself that you're afraid chase the thing that you say you want the most, right? Because your actions are going to prove if you want it or not. So it's either you do or you don't, right? So that said, Nikki, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us tonight.
Rod Brinson:Like I mentioned to everybody, if you're not already following her, you're doing yourself a disservice. She is the truth.
Nicky Saunders:Yeah. I just dropped the new YouTube video, so that's all I ask is y'all go to YouTube and look at at my latest video. That's that's all I ever I love YouTube. So go go do that.
Rod Brinson:Just hearing this, what is your YouTube channel? What is the the the at part of your
Nicky Saunders:YouTube channel? This is Nikki's this is Nikki's at everything. Like, I don't try to make it hard for anything. You could Nikki Saunders, if you wanna just type the whole name, whatever it may be. N I c k y, please.
Nicky Saunders:Thank you. Just for those people who are gonna type Nikki wrong. It is cool. It's great. But, yeah, I just dropped a new video just, like, an hour an hour ago.
Nicky Saunders:So it'd be great if y'all watch it and comment and say hello.
Rod Brinson:Okay. And and last question I got, Poppy. It's a one time fee. Is it worth it? Should I
Nicky Saunders:go ahead and get it? Yes. That that's that's what their video is. Go watch it. She I'm like, yeah.
Nicky Saunders:Yes. Popp Poppi Poppi is the reason why I have over 30,000 subscribers on YouTube. Yeah.
Rod Brinson:Okay. Say no more. Y'all heard it from the greatest, Nikki
Nicky Saunders:Just use just use my just use my code, Nikki. If you're gonna buy Poppy, n I c k y, people. Hello? Yeah. Go do but watch the video.
Nicky Saunders:I explained why because that there's a system that I've used to help me get better talking about that whole 1%, and it's helped me grow, like, my channel forex my channel. Like last year I was 9,000, this year I'm 36,000 subscribers.
Rod Brinson:That's crazy. That's crazy. Love it. All right. Well, enjoy the rest of your Friday and we will absolutely connect later on.
Rod Brinson:I appreciate the time, and we will holler. Thank you.
Nicky Saunders:I appreciate y'all.
Rod Brinson:All right. Peace.