Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast presented by Fabrica 5. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo, tonight I'm joined by Pagoda, Senator, Grinder, and Bam Bam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some wine, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 147th official invitation to join us. And become a card carrying lounge lizard. Plan to be this year once a week. We're gonna smoke a Cupid cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We debate whether a market correction has started for Cohiba and Trinidad.
We learn what marca might be next for Habano's brand pivot. And we share a listener voice memo, all among a variety of other things for the next 90 minutes. So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy. As we pair Chateau des Clans, Whispering Angel Rosé, with Hoyo de Monterrey, Epicure No.
3. A brand new release from Cuba tonight is the [00:01:00] Hoyo de Monterrey Epicure No. 3, and it's a Robusto, or a short Pyramid really. It's a 54 ring gauge cigar by 4 and 7 eighths inches long. And boys, before we begin, I'd like to say a prayer. Okay, . I would like to say a prayer to the cigar gods. Oh, the, the, the taio gods.
The taio gods. Oh. Not only are we smoking an oil tonight on the pod, but we have been on a bad run.
We have
**Gizmo:** of cubit cigars.
We have, but honestly, this is a beautiful little cigar.
**Gizmo:** I think so too. But we're, we look at this, have said this prayer to the Cuban cigar, gods tonight. Please let us have a nice Cuban cigar experience on the podcast tonight.
Thank you. Thank you. I have to say, I typically love this Marco,
**Grinder:** but you
**Senator:** guys are going to make one of us. I don't hate it.
If you get a good one. Oh, I hate it.
**Gizmo:** The factory name on this cigar boys is an original Alice. It's a new release size. Let's cut this [00:02:00] thing. So we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper.
Now here's a good question for you. How much are you guys going to take off this pyramid? I'm going to take off very little in my first cut eighth of an inch. Yeah. See how it is. Draws nice. Mine's tight. Here we go. Oh boy. Mine's perfect. Oh, they didn't hear our prayers. Yeah, mine's pretty good Mine's tight.
Yeah, mine's real tight. It's
good. It's really good. Very good not getting much on the cold draw, but it is wide open I'm cutting a second cigar. I'm not
**Gizmo:** suffering through an oil tonight. Don't do it. Good for you.
Hmm wide open draw.
**Senator:** There we go
**Gizmo:** What are you guys getting on the cold draw?
It's pretty faint Maybe a little bit of cedar and a slight, slight hint of raisin. Maybe
**Gizmo:** I, I, I don't think I'm even getting that. Yeah.
It's very faint. Maybe cedar, maybe
**Gizmo:** I'm
**Grinder:** getting a cedar and air
**Gizmo:** [00:03:00] oxygen that hasn't oxidized. May it oxidize tonight to the cigar gods.
May it oxidize tonight. If it's ever going to oxidize, we
could use some oxygen. We need it tonight.
**Gizmo:** On thHoyooyo Epi 3. Alright boys, let's light this thing. The HHoyo de Monterey EpiCure No. 3. New release from Cuba.
Is this a 52 ring gauge? Again, it's a
**Gizmo:** 54 ring gauge cigar. My lord. By 4 7 8 inches long.
We could use a
**Pagoda:** new world lighter on this thing.
Oh yeah. I feel I've evolved quite a bit because this 54 ring gauge is uh, Seeming pretty large. Do we have an age
**Gizmo:** statement on this? This is a brand new release. Came out in September 23. This cigar is from December 23. So pretty fresh. This is the latest release from Oil de Monterey out of Cuba. And their latest addition to the regular production line.
Yeah. As it takes about 20 minutes to light this thing, I will say it's a beautifully [00:04:00] constructed cigar. The wrapper is gorgeous.
**Pagoda:** I don't, I, you know, it feels good in the hand as well, like, for me.
**Gizmo:** Typical Hoya, I was gonna say. This is the fourth in the series of the Epicure line, the third that we're doing on the pod.
We've done the Epicure No. 1, the Epicure No. 2, tonight the Epicure No. 3. There's also an Epicure Especial in the line that we have not done.
I gotta interrupt you. This is very, very good off the light. I mean, I am, I love it. Oh, prayers are being answered. Maybe we should
**Gizmo:** say a prayer every episode.
This is really good.
Yeah. That's really nice. On the way
**Pagoda:** you see a new one, two, three, three strikes and hold on.
Hold on. Senator is the only one that's had this cigar in the room. Is that right? That's right. You had this in Cuba. Yep. I had it early this year, March or
**Senator:** April. At Cohiba Atmosphere. Is that right? At Cohiba Atmosphere.
I was looking through their humidor. Spotted these, knew this was a new cigar, and I hadn't seen this anywhere in Havana, uh, on previous trips, [00:05:00] so, Uh, quickly snagged a few, and smoked one right there in their lounge, and you know, for me, number one, I hate Hoyo, as a brand. Yeah. Because I've had too many disappointing experiences.
That have negated the positive experiences I've had with the brand. This cigar, it's, I mean, oil generally is a milder profile that they go for. And this fits neatly within that profile. But the flavor that I got for that milder profile, I was, I was pleasantly surprised and very happy with. So I'm curious what everybody thinks.
**Pagoda:** Listen, smoking a Cuban cigar in Cuba. You can't go wrong. This is kind of true.
This is very nice on the light, I got to admit. Yeah, and the retrohale is delicious. Slight graham cracker I'm getting right now. Um, maybe a touch of saltiness. And a very faint honey right now I'm getting, maybe. I'm getting a nuttiness too.
A very faint, maybe like an almond in the back. [00:06:00] I like it. Wow. How much are these? These are right around
**Grinder:** 20, 22 bucks. Really? Yeah. I'm getting like, this is awesome. Hilarious. This is kind of up mini.
**Senator:** Yeah,
**Grinder:** the nuttiness for
**Senator:** sure is Upman esque to me. Yeah, this is really nice on the light. Wow. This is surprising.
Believe me, I was shocked. I mean, the fact that I texted you guys while I was there saying we ought to do this on the pod.
**Gizmo:** Honestly, that's the only reason we're doing it. It's because, you know, we've, listen, we've not had a great experience with oil on the pod. This is only because Senator had a fresh one and said it was great.
So, that's why we're here. I have some questions for all of you.
Now, other than putting the performance issues aside, because the plugged nature of this entire marca, it's kind of pervasive with every cigar that they have, but when you've gotten a good Hoyo, the flavor profiles have actually been very good.
Am [00:07:00] I wrong? On good ones, yes. On good ones, yes. When they're good, they're good. When they perform well.
**Gizmo:** When they don't perform well, they're You can't smoke them. really bad. Yeah, you just can't smoke this cigar. There, there's a wide range of how these can perform. Yeah. And it's really either on one end or the
other.
It's for me, so for me personally, it's really a performance problem, not a flavor profile problem with this entire market. Because the market overall is delicious, if you get a good one.
**Grinder:** My history with CU with Cuban Cigars starts with Hoya, and I love it. I love the, I love the, I love the label, the bands.
I love
the design. There's even a weird pungent nature on the tongue. It's, it's like this almost like sour cream thing. I, I'm sorry. I'm excited about it. That I'm loving right now. It's really. Pretty freaking good. Sour cream? Is that what you said? A little bit of, just kind of like a, like a pungent, some, some I can see that.
Creamy, pungent on a tongue. It's like a, it's like a Kind of in the middle.
**Grinder:** High fat yogurt. Maybe. [00:08:00]
Like a skier. Maybe. A what? A skier? Not a low fat yogurt, a high fat yogurt. Alright, let's get back on our reservation now.
**Bam Bam:** I'm serious.
**Pagoda:** Pagoda,
**Gizmo:** what do you
**Pagoda:** think on the
**Gizmo:** wine?
**Pagoda:** It's, it's very pleasant. That's all I can say.
I'm not getting any high fat yogurt. I don't know what that tastes like. It's like, you know, I could, I could see that a little bit of the yeast. They use
**Senator:** high fat yogurt in Indian food. Oh yeah, they
**Pagoda:** do. It's a very specific flavor. I'm not getting that at all right now, but overall, um, uh, pretty pleasant though on, on the, on the line.
**Grinder:** I think the tanginess you're referencing is definitely, definitely evident. Yeah. I think that's, lemme put it that way.
**Senator:** Yeah. And I'll also say I had this cigar in the afternoon, which I think is a perfect time. Mm-Hmm. for this flavor profile.
How did it, how so when the cigar that you had in Cuba, how was [00:09:00] the, the texture of it?
Was it, was it wet? Was it dry? Was it, no, it was perfectly stored. That's the one thing that Humidor is a very good, that's a good humidor
**Senator:** for. Loose sticks that you're going to want to smoke in Havana, I think really the only place that they consistently are ready to smoke is Cohiba Atmosphere. They keep that at a lower RH and actually regulate, even attempt to regulate the humidity there in a way that most other places just don't.
Most of the
**Gizmo:** others are just open air. I
**Senator:** don't think we've ever bought
a bad cigar from Cohiba Atmosphere. No, we've actually,
**Gizmo:** we've got some real gems there.
Yeah. Now, Parque Central, that humidor is all over the place. Yeah. It is.
**Gizmo:** Even the Partiga shop. I mean, they're just open air. It's ambient, whatever the ambient humidity is, that's what those cigars are experiencing at any given time.
So, anything I've ever purchased there, I've stored away and smoked later. I haven't smoked anything that I've purchased right away. This is delicious, guys. Wow. This is
surprising.
**Gizmo:** I dig it. This is really good. So the reason [00:10:00] why I opened this episode saying it's a Robusto slash a short pyramid is Cuban Cigar website lists this as a Robusto.
But when I look at it, it, to me, it's like a short pyramid. It's a shorter pyramid, right? Yeah. I mean, it doesn't flare at the bottom like a bellicoso, so it's not a bellicoso. It has a pointed tip like a pyramid, but I, I, I feel like this is a short pyramid.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Very similar in, in, in, in shape to the Monte Cristo Petite No.
2, although the ring gauge is bigger.
Is there, I'm getting a bit of like a crispness to this. It's very crisp, you know, I can't put my finger on it.
**Gizmo:** I will say the flavor profile on this is unlike other oils I've had. Just initially, right? We're only, what, an eighth of an inch in here? It's not like other oils.
It doesn't taste like those other cigars that we've smoked on the pod and, and the other things that we've done from Cuba. Like, I can't even compare this [00:11:00] to another Cuban cigar right now. This is very
unique. It's different.
**Senator:** Sorry, I'm just laughing as Grindr is like a mime, like showing tens right now with his hands.
Oh, this is definitely down his power alley, for sure. This is wonderful. Oh, you're almost giddy. Like a little school girl going to school with her lunchbox.
**Gizmo:** So, like I said, these were released in September of 2023. They were announced in 2022. They come in three different packaging options, which is nice to see because we've talked about how a lot of new releases, especially high dollar ones.
This one is a more reasonable, regular production entry from Cuba. They've not been coming in a lot of varieties. As far as packaging goes, this one comes in three varieties, slide lid box of 10 cigars, which I love comes in a display box of 15 aluminum tube cigars, so two rows, five cardboard packs of three, and it also comes in a slide lid box of 25 cigars, which is nice.
So you have [00:12:00] quite a bit of a option. As far as when you're purchasing these cigars. And of course, a lot of retailers are going to sell those packs of three. So you can buy a pack of three and try them before you, you know, commit to a bigger buy. That's
great. I think we all love tubos. Oh, tubos are great.
Aren't they? They're just exquisite when they come out of the tube.
**Gizmo:** And of course, like all Hoyos, we have to note. The band on this, the second band is special to this one has its own epicure number three band. And then the primary band is the traditional Hoya de Monterrey that we see on most of the line.
I think except for the double Corona has its own more simple. It does vintage band
and it's more ornate in design. Yeah. Yeah. I actually like the band.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. The bands look nice. They're classy.
Very traditional.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. This is off to a very surprising start. That prayer worked, boys. It worked. It's
**Grinder:** because we prayed to the correct gods.
We did. Yeah, we did. Oh, I want to buy some of these. I was just thinking, which, which presentation, of those three
different [00:13:00] options should I buy it in? I want to try the Tubos. No doubt about it. Tubos are
**Grinder:** so fun. They're awesome. Yeah, I love Tubos. Like, it comes in a portable, like, humidor, essentially. It's not a humidor, really, but protects it well.
I, I'm a mess generally as a person. So I, like, I just, are we in therapy now?
We could all use some therapy. Dr. Gizmo, what do you think here?
**Bam Bam:** But, but, Tell us about, Your life is a mess. Tell us about your childhood, Grindr.
**Grinder:** Well, I started smoking cigars at seven. Yeah, it went downhill after that. The flexibility of a tubo is really wonderful. It protects it more, you can move around with it, throw it in your Let's say you can throw it in your jacket pocket, as Puba would say.
Yeah.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
But putting aside the possibility of carrying it around, I mean, every tubo that I've ever had, the cigar has been absolutely pristine. And that's what I look forward to when I have a [00:14:00] tubo. They're perfect.
**Pagoda:** I kind of really agree because, um, I remember going to a friend's wedding and I ended up buying some tubas from, from an airport once, uh, London Heathrow and, uh.
That's, uh, Senator's favorite airport. It is. It's gotta be. But there's something, there's something
**Senator:** cool. There's something. Oh, I'm sure in Heathrow, uh, that pagoda got patted down.
**Pagoda:** With his eyes bright wide.
Like
**Pagoda:** a deer in headlights. I, I used to go to London so often I used to be patted down every time I used to be the only guy in business class sometimes and they would still pull me out, oops, please.
This is randomly selected. This is interesting. This is interesting.
I'm not traveling with you.
**Pagoda:** That's all right. That's all right.
**Grinder:** I'm used to that kind of stuff. I love it. These are the early 2000s.
**Pagoda:** Yeah. Early, early 2000s. It's probably Heathrow still today. Yeah, is it? Oh, wow. I haven't been to London for a long time now, but yeah, but [00:15:00] you know, the tubas are fantastic.
I think they're worth a couple of extra dollars per stick, I think, right? It's elegant.
Handing someone a tuba at an event or even just here in a club, it's, there's an elegant thing.
**Gizmo:** I think with this cigar too, the size, just being a touch under 5 inches long, it's like, it's perfect for something to pull out quick, you want to have an hour long smoke, hour 15, at a wedding, whatever it may be, like, I think this would be a lot of fun coming out of a tuba.
This ring gauge, I think, would take me more than an hour to get through this. You think so? I'd like to, I would, I will take my time with this guy.
**Senator:** So you say, I'll also say, this is, Got to be one of the larger ring gauge oil cigars, period. That's true. Some of the
**Gizmo:** San Juan cigars are in the mid fifties. Oh, that's right.
That Rio Seco is huge. The Rio Seco, the San Juan,
**Senator:** yeah. That's true. Um, but at least for the Epicure line, this is definitely the largest ring gauge. I, I don't know why, but I just feel like it really benefits from it.
**Gizmo:** And I love the mouthfeel. Of course, I get [00:16:00] a lot of flack on the, uh, podcast here for enjoying a smaller mouthfeel.
No, you don't. On a cigar, but no, I, I I think there's, I like the 54 tapering down to a Absolutely. Something in the forties. You know what's cool
is like you're only cutting a, you should only be cutting about an eighth of an inch off that pyramid. It concentrates, if you, if you have an oil and you're lucky enough to have a good draw, it concentrates that flavor to that peak.
It's a great experience.
**Gizmo:** So this is the fifth oil we've done on the pod. Like I said, we did the other two Epicures, Epicure number one and Epicure number two. We did not do the Especial yet. We did the Eliantis LTDH and we did the double Coronas. We'll get to all their ratings a little later in the program.
**Pagoda:** It's really interesting the power of suggestion that now that you've suggested yogurt, All that's in my mind is big Indian yogurt, like high fat yogurt. It's like .
**Grinder:** Wow. Dude. There's nothing better than SC with like real raw honey.
**Bam Bam:** We're back to scour. I don't even know what that is. I don't even know. [00:17:00]
**Grinder:** It's like.
It's like a better form of yogurt. Oh, an Icelandic
yogurt. Oh, wow. Yeah. Do you have it with like a pig stomach on the side? I don't know, dude. What are you talking about? What's that called? What's that called? You're off the reservation. You're off! Get back on the reservation! There's a dish called, where they're stuffing like, things into like a An animal's stomach and then they're baking it.
You talking about haggis? Haggis. You're not even Scottish. You're not even on the same continent.
**Grinder:** All right. That's a different island. All right.
**Pagoda:** And that's got nothing to do with yogurt. That's true.
**Gizmo:** So boys, it's time to do the lizard of the week. This week's winner. His lizard, Sean, longtime listener of the podcast, big supporter.
He sent in a voice memo. He wanted to share with us. So play that now. And, uh, congratulations to him. He's going to win some stuff from us. We're going to send him a nice little care package as a, as we do each week. So here's a voice memo. Cover your ears, BAM from
guys. I'll see you tomorrow.
**Lizard Sean:** Hey, gays and the lizards.
I think I just found your guy's boy band name. [00:18:00] Anyway, Love the Pie, I've been listening a long time and got a question. I remember you guys did a couple of episodes featuring non alcoholic beers. That's where I first got exposed to Get a Zero and loved it ever since. I know that many cigar smokers are also in recovery and would love to hear some more pairings of things that are non alcoholic.
So any thoughts or consideration on doing some more episodes featuring non alcoholic pairings? Side note, I want to thank all of you guys. Because of you, I'm going on my first trip to Cuba on January 31st. Wow. So big shout out to all you guys. Much appreciate everything that you do. Keep up the great work and look forward to more episodes.
**Senator:** Can I just say lizard? Sean could have said nothing other than I'm going on my first trip to Cuba in January. Exactly. And he would've won Lizard of the Week, correct. Lizard of the
**Grinder:** Week. Yeah. That's awesome. Is Lizard Sean from the Philadelphia
**Gizmo:** area? Yes, he [00:19:00] is.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Did you know that? Based on the accent?
Totally. Yeah. So, uh, yeah. Congratulations to Lizard Sean. Thanks for, uh, sending in a great voice memo. Of course. And let's start with you, like you said, Senator, going to Cuba for the first time, the first time. That is just,
there's nothing like getting on that island for the first time. It's just, what an experience.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, it's really, really something. And to take it all in and to, you know, to, to, to sense how different the world can be.
I'm recollecting now to my first trip as we're talking about this. It was quite the experience.
**Gizmo:** It's, it's incredibly eye opening. Yeah. It's a, it's, it's, it's a little shocking. It's shocking.
It's tragic in a way. Yep. With, with what goes on there. But also beautiful. It's beautiful at the same time. Yes. And the people are amazing and, and what they're living in and through and with is just, it's just such a difference versus what we experience here. And when
you interact with the people, their resiliency and everything that they're going through on a daily [00:20:00] basis, it's really something else.
**Pagoda:** We also remember your first, uh, trip to Cuba and some anecdotes, the speed walking. Oh yeah, dude.
**Gizmo:** All right. So what,
let's tell the story. I was in an amazing race that entire fucking trip. So Pagoda is
**Gizmo:** referencing Bambam and I, we were the first two lizards to go to Cuba. We went with our friend Lizard Phil.
Lizard, yeah, that's right. And Lizard Bruce. Right. And Lizard Phil was our, our, our champion, our, our tour guide. We
had no idea that he was a sprinter.
**Gizmo:** He's a speed walker, this guy. He was giving us a tour from about a half a mile ahead of us. My
shoes were getting dirty.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, and wet. Correct. Your shoes got wet in the rain.
Bambam doesn't like wet shoes.
No, I don't.
**Gizmo:** Bam, paint a, paint a picture for us.
What, what exactly were you wearing that day? I was wearing, what was I wearing? I was wearing a t shirt and shorts and my hat. It was raining a little bit. I mean, what color? I, this is not the usual BamBam specificity. So the, [00:21:00] the shoes were, they were tennis shoes.
They were gray and they were meshed. And of course I didn't have socks on. So it was very fucking uncomfortable. And. Lizard, Bruce and lizard Phil, they were like at least 30 yards ahead of us on a consistent basis, giving us the tour, by the way. Correct. And we heard
**Gizmo:** nothing. They were not at all.
**Pagoda:** I could do very well about,
**Senator:** Oh yeah.
We were chasing. Bam struggled to keep up at PCA. I can only imagine this in Cuba. It was awful.
**Bam Bam:** I like, I'm sitting down. I'll see you guys later.
I let you guys handle it. I like a measured pace to experience every step.
**Gizmo:** And that you did one step
at a time. Correct.
**Gizmo:** But back to the point here, your first trip to Cuba is really something.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** It's and every time you go, you learn a little more, you come a little bit more seasoned, you know, you know what you're, you're going to expect, and then there's still so many surprises and, [00:22:00] you know, just the, the craziness that is that island.
I think we would love to hear a follow up from Lizard Sean.
Yeah, after he goes, I'd
**Senator:** love to hear it. He's going in January. Bring a suitcase with lots to give out to people there that need the help. I
**Grinder:** think to his question, I mean, it's an excellent question. I, I think some of the non alcoholic beers are delicious. Oh yeah. Some of the athletic, what's it called?
Athletic. Athletic, yeah. Athletic brewing. Delicious. Is amazing. I'll be honest. Have you ever had black tea with, like, some milk? Yes.
**Gizmo:** Yes. You're talking Pagoda's language. Of course. Absolutely. I grew up on it. Every day.
Black tea with milk. I think that is an excellent cigar pairing. It is. It really is.
Especially with
**Grinder:** Cuban cigars. Yeah. That's
right.
**Grinder:** Uh, obviously coffee. But tea has a, it's the, the flavor is subtle, but it, I think it brings out a lot of good flavor flavors in Cuban cigars. Absolutely agree.
**Pagoda:** Liz, Sean, I, I really apologize, but you know, the, the one thing in Cuba, the beer crystal is [00:23:00] fantastic.
Oh yeah. If you can find a non-alcoholic version there, unlikely . Unlikely. Yeah. Good luck. But you know, there the beer is really good. Uh, the crystal's very nice. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I think to Grindr's point, I think coffee is probably the most. obvious omission on the podcast, as far as non alcoholic pairings, because each of us pairs cigars with coffee all the time.
And that's something we just haven't done on the pod from a pairing standpoint. It's one
**Grinder:** of those things that it's so obvious it becomes an afterthought, you know? Um, and also most of us are drinking coffee every morning and having cigar anyway, uh, to some degree. So, you know, this is a, this
is like a separate kind of experience.
You know, we have a great little espresso maker here in the club. Um, Decaf, regular, and I think an espresso brings out the richness in the cigar, depending on the cigar that you're having. Uh, I think it's, there's a lot of merit there.
**Grinder:** Yeah. Yeah. I think, um, you know, honestly, [00:24:00] I think seltzer, flavored seltzer is a good combo.
I disagree 100 percent completely. I love, I
**Gizmo:** love seltzer with lemon. Here we go. With the cigar? I love seltzer with, with fresh lemon is the best for a cigar. From
a point of view of cleansing, yes. Yeah. In between like seven or eight draws, he'd take a swig of seltzer. I'm with that. No,
**Pagoda:** but Bob, that's how he gets the citrus flavor.
Yeah. Okay. I'm trying
**Pagoda:** to be like you. Yeah. All right. Trying to get citrus. I can't
pair a seltzer with a cigar for the entire sit. That's not happening. Yeah. It might be a stretch.
**Grinder:** It might be a stretch. Okay.
**Gizmo:** But there are a lot of non alcoholic beers. And I, I find, I mean, we've talked about this on the episodes when we reviewed non alcoholic beers.
We've reviewed. Yeah.
**Grinder:** Take a look, Sean.
**Senator:** We've done. He wants more. I'll say this. I mean, I've. For a while, a period at least, went down the rabbit hole of non alcoholic beer. I think athletic brewing does it better than anybody, bar none. Um, that Wave Runner IPA is probably the best one they make. There's another [00:25:00] IPA, like the Hazy IPA it's called, that's like an orange or red color.
That's also very good. Um, for a lighter, uh, beer on like a hot summer day, there's a yellow one. Um, forgetting what it's called.
Honestly, the non alcoholic Beck's on a very hot day. I was going to say that. That's actually quite nice. Beck's is
**Grinder:** good. Beck's, that, that non alcoholic. Actually taste like irregular beck.
But on a hot day like senator's referring to, I think that's a great, yeah, great experience.
**Gizmo:** When I drove back from Florida, I don't know if I told you guys this when I was, I was smoking cigars 'cause I drove straight shot coming back from Florida, 17 and a half hours. Did you have a salad by myself? I did not.
I actually did I have a salad? I might have. You may have had a salad. I might've actually did. I have a salad but I had a bunch of cigars and I was, I just check your seats. It's probably still there. . Any croutons in the cushions? . I was drinking. Uh. Stella, the non alcoholic Stella on the way home. I had two or three of those with the cigars with my cigars as I was driving.
And [00:26:00] it tastes just as close to regular Stella as you can get. Not like regular Stella, but it
**Senator:** is
**Gizmo:** close for me in that moment for driving home. It was as close as I can. But you can't
argue how delicious the non alcoholic Guinness is. Yeah. Non alcoholic
**Senator:** Guinness. Excellent. Exquisite. The only non alcoholic beer that I really hated was, uh, the non alcoholic Peroni.
Oh, yes. Yes. It doesn't taste anything. There's no flavor. That was not good. Another really, uh, random one rooster who, uh, is easily the connoisseur of non alcoholic, uh, beer, uh, Galicia, uh, this like Spanish beer, very delicious. Really? That's another good one. Uh, but the good thing is there, there's a lot of options now.
I mean, years ago, they were like more and more. O'Doul's was really all you could find. And now there's so much. Cool.
**Pagoda:** But leaving that aside, you know, even Coke, Coke tastes so good. Like, you know, if you have regular Coke with a cigar, it provides a sweetness and it's, uh, it's like a cool. I'd really [00:27:00] like to run correct
with on the ice with this slice of lemon.
A lot of,
**Gizmo:** a lot of listeners love soft drinks like Dr. Pepper or a cherry Coke or something. A lot of folks love root beer. I haven't had Dr. Pepper in so long. People love pairing those with cigars. That would work
**Grinder:** well. Yeah. The cherry. Yeah, that's a good idea. And especially
**Gizmo:** if you have any sort of nicotine sensitivity.
That the sugar in those drinks helps with that. You know, I don't think any of us have a nicotine. I I'm not talking about . Oh. But when you, when
**Senator:** you liked the wrong cigar, I mean, were you there the, the UBA night with the, uh, Pedro, 1926 nineties. This was at our old lounge. Oh yeah. I was there. Uh, UBA, we had to use a monthly allocation at our, uh, old lounge and.
I remember Pupa bought some Padron 1926, uh, series cigars. Those are strong cigars. I honestly, some of them are, are too strong for me to enjoy. And I remember Pupa sitting there lighting this 1926 cigar and maybe a third of the way through. I mean, he's like sweating. He's like, [00:28:00] this is kicking my ass. He was so frustrated and he's like, the only thing that's going to help me right now, I need to find a Coke.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah.
**Senator:** And he literally like chugged a Coke and he like finally like regulated his blood sugar and everything and it felt back to normal. But when you have a really strong cigar. Um, that's got too much nicotine. The sweetness helps cut through that. Yeah, it
**Gizmo:** helps
**Senator:** quite
**Gizmo:** a bit. You know, so I, I, I think we, we've kind of laid out some of the things we like, but I'm going to talk to Rooster.
You know, obviously he's the connoisseur in the room of non alcoholic pairings and coffee. He's a big coffee guy.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Loves, you know, different blends and beans and stuff. So, you know, we will do more non alcoholic pairings. We're definitely going to have to look to that. I would love to try the
**Senator:** Galithium.
Oh, yeah. I'm sorry, how can we forget this? We've mentioned many times of Bloody Mary, but there are times that I've made a non alcoholic Bloody Mary. You're just not putting vodka in it, and it's delicious. It is delicious. In the morning, with the morning smoke, another great pairing. Absolutely. So what do you substitute in [00:29:00] the
**Gizmo:** Bloody for the vodka?
What do you put instead?
**Senator:** No, I just, I basically just in places like a shot of vodka, I just put like a shot of water just so that the tomato juice isn't like too intense or too thick and it's perfect.
**Grinder:** Yeah.
Yeah.
**Senator:** That's
**Grinder:** nice. Um, yeah. I mean a lot of good non alcoholic beers. Um, I wish there were like, is there, wine's not.
Do they have non alcoholic? That's not a thing, is it?
**Senator:** I mean, uh, there definitely are ones, but not that I would recommend. The other thing, actually, I'll say, uh, you just sparked a good, uh, thought grinder. There are non alcoholic spirits. That's right. Your wife enjoyed some of those, right? Yeah. So, like, when my wife was pregnant, this was a big thing.
And, uh, Ritual is the company that is kind of the leader in making these. And I know they have a ritual tequila that I've had along with my wife that if you were to make a margarita and just put that in, it has similar notes that you would get out of tequila with no alcohol. Um, so some of the ritual spirits are, are also a good option.
**Gizmo:** I think this is [00:30:00] something, you know, to Lizardshawn's point, we had some folks write us about doing more wine, we're going to add more wine into the rotation. I think adding more non alcoholic beverages, I think coffee is the biggest omission so far. I think we need to look at, you know Tough
to do that here in this environment right now, right?
How do we get coffee in the room from Starbucks?
You know what we could do? We can bring Rooster's juror. Yeah, I think
**Senator:** that's been the big fear. We're going to have a 24 hour seminar on coffee.
**Bam Bam:** Correct.
**Gizmo:** And it can only come out of a juror. All right, boys. We're coming to the end of the first third here on the oil to Monterey epicure. Number three. What do you guys think so far?
I love it. Yeah. I love it. I'm having a hard time not smoking through this. This thing is almost done. I, this, this is like,
**Grinder:** it's really, really good. This is like, you know, when you get like really good sourdough bread, it just comes out of the oven and you open it up and you take and you just smell it. And it's just like, that's what I'm smoking.
I agree. [00:31:00] I'm smoking the vapor coming off. This warm sourdough loaf and it's fucking sublime. It's delicious. I don't think I've ever seen
**Gizmo:** Grindr this happy. This is wonderful. This is excellent. Excellent cigar. Senator, what do you think? How does this stand to the first
**Senator:** one you had? Uh, this is as good, if not a bit better.
Really? I mean, I had that. That was probably super fresh. At least I'm sure this is sat somewhat. How long have you had these in your tower? Probably about 90 days. Oh, that's,
that's, that's great.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. I've had these for a little, you know, the reason why I put these aside is knowing that they were so fresh and, and an oil and we had just done the double Corona when Senator said to grab them, I grabbed them and I've just sat on them for a while, but I felt after about two, three months, they were
**Senator:** ready.
I think the thing I'm just most encouraged. I mean, I just picked up a single one and smoked it. And obviously I had a great experience there. My fear, knowing the oil markup was that, you know, with a bunch of us doing this, is it going to. consistently perform. And the fact that everybody seems to be enjoying this [00:32:00] cigar, this could be that one line within oil that maybe there's some consistency behind that we can trust.
Yeah. Yeah. The aroma on the foot's pleasant. It is. It's very easy to smoke. I think there's a lot of sourdough notes in here that I think Grindr mentioned that I think are very accurate. A touch of graham cracker. I had honey earlier, but that's dissipated. But this is, this is very good.
**Senator:** Two, two things I would add.
One, we haven't mentioned the construction on this cigar is excellent. If you look at everyone's cigar, I mean, it's just like an inch or two of ash. It's awesome. Burning perfectly. The draw's excellent. No issues there. I
think everyone here is loving their cigar and having a hard time smoking it slow.
**Senator:** Yeah, for sure. And then the only other thing I would add is I get all those sourdough notes that, that Grindr was talking about. On the front, but the finish is sweet. And I like that like balance between like sourdough and then like a sweet kind of honey, like [00:33:00] finish for me. It works really well. Yeah. As like a
**Pagoda:** creamy sweetness.
Yeah. Very creamy. Sorry. I should've mentioned that. Extremely creamy. As you keep that smoke in your mouth, just a little longer than normal. You capture that in your tongue. It's very good.
**Senator:** And the combustion also on this cigar is great. This is fucking awesome.
Now I haven't, oh my Lord. Grindr is giddy. GI is Grinder,
I haven't, giddy Grinder. I haven't seen these come up anywhere.
**Gizmo:** I've seen them here or there. I know they've been on FOH for sure. Really? I think I saw them on I Havanas.
Really? Yes, dude. I'm pursuing, I think they
**Gizmo:** were right up, right down. I want several
**Senator:** boxes,
**Gizmo:** but I've, I've definitely seen
**Senator:** these go up
**Gizmo:** for
**Senator:** sure.
And I also disagree that this is a dramatic departure from Hoyo. I think, like, some of the best epi twos I've ever had If
**Grinder:** you get a good one. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I can't tell you the last time that happened. I
**Grinder:** don't want to steal your thunder, but I'm 100 percent in his corner there. If you get a good one This is very much like I think this is the best, to use your word, [00:34:00] expression of HHoyo.
Yeah. But it's like, it's got, it's got the HHoyo DNA. Uh, I don't think it's, I don't think it's divergent from HHoyo at all. Yeah. I think it's within the mark. Yeah,
**Senator:** for sure. I agree. And the thing that I just appreciate about this is, You know, you like this cigar. And I think on the light, you're like, Oh, this is mild, maybe mild, medium.
It doesn't start like firmly medium, but what I really appreciate what they've done. There's so much flavor, despite this being milder in body that it holds up really well, correct. And I think some cigars we have, whether it's Cuban or new world, When they start with that milder profile, there's not enough flavor to kind of keep your interest.
And you're sitting there saying, this is too mild for most of, if not all of our palates, but this doesn't do that. And I think that they deserve a lot of credit for how they blended this cigar. It's got so much flavor, despite that, like, Easygoing delivery
what you're describing a quintessential Cuban at its highest peak performance.
That's what I'm hearing here [00:35:00] agreed Yeah,
**Gizmo:** it's shocking to me that this cigar was not even released a year ago. Yeah, these are Probably what seven eight months old. This is a sleeper. It's crazy Yeah, and again, you know, we've talked about this with fresh releases from Habanos and regular production You think about the Raphael Gonzalez, Corona's, the Lonsdale.
You think about the LaGuardia Cubana, Turquino's. How well those performed. That was
delicious.
**Gizmo:** I mean, it's, it's almost like a bonus is purposefully blending and designing these cigars to be smoked well young. And then you compare it to the rest of the catalog and some of these cigars and the rest of the catalog at the same age, doesn't smoke anywhere close.
That's right. So it's like, I don't know, this is, this is really well blended. And it's smoking brilliantly right now. Yeah, great performance. So when
**Pagoda:** was the first release, like 21 or 22?
**Senator:** This came out less than a year ago. Oh really?
**Pagoda:** Oh
**Senator:** wow. Late last year. And, and I hope it's a realization on Habeno's part [00:36:00] that at these price points now, people can't wait for them to be ready to smoke.
Well, if you're going to pay a premium, they need to be ready to smoke. Yeah. And, and at least as Gizmos point out, like these recent releases, that's how we have felt. And so I just hope that trend continues because no one should be spending 30 on a cigar if they can't smoke it and enjoy it right now.
They've got to sit and let it age for a few years. That's just silly.
Yeah, that could segue into a whole conversation.
**Gizmo:** And we'll get there.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** But first, boys, let's talk about our pairing tonight. It's our first tonight, a rosé.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** A different type of wine. I know nothing about rosé. All I know is the tagline that I've seen on some, Shirts, rosé all day, all day rosé, that's all I know, I've never had a rosé, I've never tried it, I know it's a big thing out in the Hamptons.
I can't wait for us to get his boat t shirt. This is what Senator drinks when he's out in the Hamptons, schmoozing, with his t shirts on.
**Bam Bam:** [00:37:00] Correct. For
**Gizmo:** the
**Bam Bam:** record. His boat shoes. For the record. I
**Senator:** can't claim credit for this, this was a Bam Bam suggestion, and I think it was a perfect one. And we continue
**Gizmo:** on our track.
Of praying to the gods and religion. This is the whispering angel. Cheers. Cheers to you. Cheers, boys. Cheers to the success of the pairing tonight. I am, uh,
**Grinder:** I think Grindr needs a refill. Yeah, I've imbibed a little. We've just started, by the way.
**Gizmo:** No wonder he's so giddy. Correct. I'll be honest. I've never had rosé before, before that first sip I just took.
Very nice pairing with this cigar. I think it works. I think
**Senator:** it does work. It doesn't just work. I. For some reason, would have never thought of pairing this. It is a perfect pairing. Absolute brilliance that Bam's part suggested. Look, you mentioned the notes. Bam, can we just
**Gizmo:** sit on that for a second? He just called you brilliant.
Oh, oh, I
need a religious.[00:38:00]
Everybody get your boat shoes. Duly noted, check. But all the notes that he mentioned, look, he's the only one that's had the cigar. He's mentioned the notes several times. It kind of made sense to have a very light, we wanted to do a wine, but this kind of fit in. So,
**Senator:** yeah. And I think, you know, the, the funny thing with a rosé like this cigar, this cigar is mild, but it has so much flavor that it smokes above the body that it brings.
And a rosé is a lighter wine, but because it's not a white wine, it's a rosé. It has just, it has some extra flavor to it that doesn't make it too mild that it just kind of falls to the background and you're not, it's not standing up against the cigar. And so I really think like. A rosé and this rosé with this cigar just works really well.
It
works great. You know, and honestly, I thought of it because when I'm out with Mrs. [00:39:00] Bam Bam and I'm having a cigar and she's not having a cigar and we're going to share a spirit, we'll get a bottle of this or two or three. The consumption rate on this cigar, I like the way it's doing things. So obviously she just had a glass.
Probably, probably two or maybe two of the best rosé all day, ma'am. But this goes down beautifully, the spirit, right? This or this, this rosé, I should say. And because you can consume, I love the consumption of this rosé because I can take copious volumes of it. It doesn't affect me. It's delicious. And it's reminiscent of this cigar.
I can smoke two or three of these, they're so good, in one sit, and it's just enjoyable. Agreed. So this is an enjoyment factor because you can take volumes of it.
**Gizmo:** So what makes rosé different or special? Is it a type of grape? What is it about rosé that has really captured, I don't know about outside the United States, but certainly in the U.
S. I know nothing about it, I
just like to drink it. Yeah. So. [00:40:00]
**Senator:** Um, Roses is, is no different than, than any other wine in the sense that it's the same grapes. Um, a lot of roses end up being made from Pinot Noir grapes, but there's a whole variety of them. And the difference is just that, you know, with a white wine, the skin of those grapes is completely removed, which is what has the color.
The tannin. Um, and so, you know, why that wine looks white is because all you're getting is the flesh inside of the grape. You're not getting any of the skin that has the color that would impart that red hue that you get in red wine. With a rosé, they leave some of the skin on, which gives it that rosé color, but not a lot of it where it's not the intensity that you would get from, you know, a red wine.
And, um, you know, for whatever reason, years ago, just Rose was never prioritized as a serious wine. And so the few that made it, they were sweet and shitty and over time that has [00:41:00] dramatically changed. I mean, so much so I couldn't believe when I was in Italy recently, any Italian Rose that I've ever tried in the past has been insanely sweet.
And even some of them syrupy, I mean, just awful. I would never. Seek out an Italian rosé and you look at Italian rosé now and France is really what put rosé on the map I mean, this is a French rosé and that's where this exploded, but now from where in France
Provence Well, let Pagoda say it Provence
**Bam Bam:** I knew he would do it well
**Senator:** And, uh, fuck, we're, we're, what were we talking about? Oh, so I was saying, so, so France, France put Rosé on the map, but now even recently being in Italy, [00:42:00] it's like all the winemakers in Italy understand how big Rosé has become. And so there's such a focus now on it. I couldn't believe I was drinking some Italian Rosés that no joke, First of all, taste almost identical to French rosé, which I was shocked and some of them as good, if not better than some of the best French rosés I've ever had.
So this is like a true global phenomenon that every vineyard is prioritizing rosé as seriously as they do red or white wine, whichever they're more known for. And I think to Bam's point, you know, Rosé is just the quintessential summer wine. Right. Right. Yeah. And on a hot day to have something that is cold and refreshing, but also easy drinking yet complex and, and flavorful enough that it can hold up with a meal.
It can hold up with [00:43:00] a cigar. There's just so much utility for it. And the funny thing is, the rosé that we're drinking is, uh, Whispering Angel. Pagoda. That's our Whispering Angel.
**Bam Bam:** Correct.
**Senator:** Say it again, Pagoda. Whispering Angel. From where? Provence.
**Bam Bam:** Oh, but
**Senator:** the, the irony is, you know, this, this is the best selling Rosé in the world period. Oh, it is. It's not even close. Really? Oh, really close. Oh yeah. I thought Bon Jovi's was.
**Grinder:** Let me, let me tell you this. You're going to, you're going to go home to your wife and you're going to say, I had whispering angel and she's going to say thumbs up.
Oh yeah. By a case.
Yes.
**Grinder:** All right. Yeah.
**Senator:** In 2017, they produced more than 6 million bottles of this. Wow. And I'm sure now it's even higher than that. Wow. So it, the volume is insane. And the thing that's funny about this wine is when Whispering Angel came out, there was this huge craze and it became really popular and people said, this is [00:44:00] great rosé.
And at this point it's become so ubiquitous that it gets frowned upon. Almost. It's like, oh, well, that's what, you know, unserious wine people drink. The harsh reality of this. Not here. Not us. That's right. We're serious. The reality of it. I've had a thousand and one rosettes. Like it's actually a good rose.
Yeah. And so anyone who wants to just like immediately turn their nose at it. I think you're being a little bit of a snob to do that. And I just say that because is it the most complex rosé? Absolutely not. But is it a very good rosé for what it is and for its price point?
Yeah,
**Senator:** there's no question. Even critics, even, even guys that I don't appreciate or respect very much as wine critics, like our friend, uh, James suckling.
Even he has, it's done reviews on this and said, it's an outstanding Rosé. And so there's, there's credit that's deserved because this is what really exploded the entire category. Very true. And I'm shocked that all these years later, I mean, we're drinking this. I haven't seen anybody suggest that [00:45:00] they're not enjoying it.
It still holds up and they haven't sacrificed quality, which is what usually
happens, right? The consistency has been the same for years and years. How much does it cost? 20 bucks.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, that's a 20 bottle of wine. Within my budget. Yeah, this is great. I paid earlier like
21 in change. So
**Gizmo:** I was anticipating, based on, I mean, obviously, Seeing Rosé just kind of in culture, right?
Never having it. I expected it to be like a wine spritzer, like sweet, not great. And I'm very much appreciating its dryness. Yeah, the dryness brings complexity. It has a complexity to it. For a 20 bottle, it's really
**Senator:** good. The dryness you talk about, that's what's characteristic of French rosé. So the problem is, you know, most Americans for so long were used to American rosés that came out of Napa or Sonoma, and they're very sweet.
That's exactly how you end up with a hangover. They're, they're just not something that you can drink in volume, like Bam's talking about. In France, you know, their [00:46:00] entire style of winemaking is on the drier side from Bordeaux's and red wine to Sancerre's and white wine to rosés. In between, they're all a drier style and you don't get like all this crazy residual sugar and these things are just not going to make you feel great and they lend itself to, I mean, this goes down like water.
It does. And it's very enjoyable. You know, as I was walking back with the bottle in my hand, I'm thinking to myself, the grizzled veteran cigar smoker is going to scoff at this, but I think you've got to give it a shot if you're having, uh, A Cuban cigar like we're having tonight. Yeah, mild.
**Gizmo:** It's a mild affair.
Yeah. Very appropriate. You do
look pretty with a bottle. I do. Thank you. I
**Pagoda:** agree with you if I do say so myself. So what about, I love sparkling roses. That's another one. Yeah, and if they're dry and if they're good and a hot summer day, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** I'm I'm really impressed with the spirit [00:47:00] It's a nice pairing tonight and even more so boys We're just beyond the halfway point here on the HHoyo de Monterey epicure number three from Cuba I can't get enough of this cigar right now.
I'm shocked It's
so good. It's crazy. It's so fucking
**Gizmo:** good. I can't believe how much we paid for the oil double Corona and some of those other cigars,
dude,
**Gizmo:** from them, how good this is.
And it's starting to concentrate as you get down so that a lot of that, the little pungent. Notes that I was getting earlier are more pronounced and still for me a little bit of graham cracker there I say very faint baking spice in the finish for me.
It's all there for me.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, it's getting sweeter
for me I think exactly it's it's I don't think the wine has anything to do. I think that complements the cigar. It's excellent Yeah,
**Gizmo:** I feel like the wine is bringing the best out of the cigar and vice versa like it's It's really working on the palate.
Yeah. You know, they're very complimentary. It's
**Senator:** very enjoyable. I have to say one funny tasting note that is mentioned on the wine. It's yogurt, [00:48:00]
**Gizmo:** high fat or low fat.
What is it? What's it called? Scott? What's it? Scrum.
Grr. Grr. We're not, we're not implementing software.
**Pagoda:** Highly pasteurized or non pasteurized. Actually,
I think I could use a refill. I
**Pagoda:** think it's all the bottles
gone.
**Gizmo:** We killed the entire literally goes down like
water. No good. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** So boys, let's talk about some Cuban cigars.
Some interesting news here. We've talked at length about the price increases that we've experienced across the entire Habanos SA catalog. Well noted on this podcast and elsewhere. I mean, it's been crazy. Every consumer's experienced it, especially with the high end stuff, namely Cohiba and others. And most recently Trinidad experienced this as they did a relaunch at the Habanos World Days event in London.
earlier this summer. And what I found [00:49:00] interesting, and I wanted to talk to you guys about this, is I've seen a couple gray market retailers offering Trinidad and Cohiba at like crazy prices. Uh, I saw
iHave discounting Trinidad.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, they were offering three box And Cohiba. And Cohiba. I didn't see that. Oh yeah, wait till you hear this.
Three box deals on Trinidad vigias. For 900 bucks for three boxes, bringing those down to a more reasonable price of about 25 a cigar, about the same price as this.
The Vigia is a great cigar, I would pursue that deal. That's a small
**Gizmo:** cigar, but that's a significant price cut. Still, yeah. And they're offering them in bulk, three box tools.
That's unheard of. So then, they're offering Cohiba Robustos. Right at 45 a cigar. Wow, which is significantly less than what what are we paying in Cuba for those 80 or 90 bucks right now? 75
bucks. Yeah, so that's a
**Gizmo:** significant discount down to 45 a [00:50:00] cigar. So is the price correction happening? Of
**Pagoda:** course, yes.
**Gizmo:** Let's hope so.
**Grinder:** This is economics, guys. It always comes back to the rule of nature. When, like, we're not going to be buying these sticks. You got to do something with them, so they're going to lower the price.
Correct. Because they can't get rid of
**Grinder:** them.
**Gizmo:** I'll be honest. I was surprised. I was not surprised to see Trinidad discounted.
I was surprised. Coros.
I was
**Gizmo:** surprised to see Coros discounted to that level.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Because You know, we've known that Cohiba is catnip to the highest end consumers of Habano cigars to see Cohiba discounted and offered at volume is very surprising to me. And the, the Coro, which is one of their highest selling regular production cigars.
Now let's put aside the crazy stuff, the Behicas, the limited releases, et cetera. If you think of their classic linear line, their Sigla line, the Cohiba Robusto, maybe us, you know, next to the Cohiba Sigla six, the Lancero. The Esplendido, that is one of the [00:51:00] core cigars to see that offered at that kind of discount.
I was very surprised to see that.
**Senator:** I mean, the miscalculation is, it's very simple. Sure. They discovered that there are countless really wealthy people who are going to spend silly amounts of money on Cohiba and Trinidad, but the problem is they still need to move volume. And so when you have 10 X the consumers who are willing to buy Partagas and Hoyo and Monty and all these other brands at 20 to 30 bucks a stick, you know, uh, it doesn't matter how much money someone has.
It's willing to buy Cohiba. One person is only going to consume so many cigars. And so there becomes a point where sure at first things are flying off the shelves and then that all those individuals. They're stocked. They don't need any more.
But not, not to mention the fact that ultra high net worth buyer that's educated, that understands this, the cigar markers in general, like you mentioned [00:52:00] earlier, they're going to pursue other markers.
Of course. They're going to gravitate away from co behavior and treated ad because it's just outrageously priced. It doesn't make sense.
**Pagoda:** And,
**Grinder:** and, and the new worlds are getting better. Of course. That's also true. I, I think you have to understand how idiotic these people are. Because you can't mess up pricing this bad when you've been in the same business for that long without being a dumb ass.
Like, I mean, let's be honest, like how to, to, to miss on pricing that bad. You have to have no idea what's going on in the market. And that just shows you, they probably have no idea
what's going on. What I'd like to see. So on the gray market, it's kind of understandable, but if they start to reduce prices at LCD eight stores,
**Gizmo:** but here's what you have to think about, and I was going to go here as well.
The gray market vendors, the legitimate gray market vendors, you know where they're getting their cigars from? LCDH. LCDH. Oh, so They're getting them from legitimate vendors. Now, there's plenty of guys out there who are selling fake Cuban [00:53:00] cigars that are getting backdoor shit cigars. Sure. Okay? But iHavana's is not doing that.
They're getting legitimate Cigars from legitimate retailers who are not moving the volume.
What that's saying is there's a market correction that's taking place and hopefully it becomes more realistic as we move forward.
**Gizmo:** And, but it's only happening right now in the secondary market. We're not seeing this on the primary market yet.
And to Grindr's point, to see it happening at the secondary level, which is being shuffled out the back door to these gray market vendors, it's even worse. Mm hmm. Because now you're not only hurting your, your primary vendors, but you're seeing the secondary market. You're, you're completely recorrecting the perception of your customer by saying, well, if my LCDH is selling the cigar for 80 and I have Anna's hazard for 45, what is wrong?
**Grinder:** That's bad for LCDH, obviously. Of course. So. Um, again, I'm going to say this, you, they, it's not like they're new to making [00:54:00] cigars and selling cigars. How bad do you have to be at understanding your business to, to realize, to, to not realize that this is going to happen? I mean, any one of us, we're all in business.
Any one of us. Is hyper focused on pricing. Of course. That's how, I mean, that's the, what, that's what we do. We're constantly fucking around with pricing, but not to the degree that two X, three X, some of these cigars came out, those kinds of jumps only happen when there's disruption. There was no disruption.
It's the same thing that they've been making for hundreds of years. The only disruption
**Gizmo:** was caused by them.
**Grinder:** Yeah,
**Gizmo:** exactly. It's self inflicted. Yeah, self inflicted. It's a lack of investment. It's a lack of human resources. It's a lack of supporting their people. Lack of supporting their crop. It's all self inflicted.
He
**Senator:** means disruption as in they are meaningfully changing or improving this product that would command a huge jump in price. And to Greiner's point, it's It's the same exact product. They've done nothing different. [00:55:00] So there was no disruption now is no different than a Cohiba booster five years ago. So what justifies such an extreme price increase?
And that's the problem. And this is,
**Grinder:** and, and, and savvy businessmen realize that you can't ultimately can't really con the customer. And when you're changing price that like that, it, we call in to question the integrity of the whole enterprise. Like, what are you doing here? So you're saying the price you gave me before was bogus.
Do you actually know how to price this fucking thing? Like, that's what I'm thinking. And clearly they don't. And also the fact that they're, they're, they're cannibalizing their own brick and mortar. Is lunacy. That's even, that's worse than anything they could do. Absolutely. That is the worst they could do.
And, and, and the fact that they're trying to hide it by doing it, like to your words, backdoor through their own channels at, through the gray market. So now all those distributors. That they've, that they've had these long term relationships and the LCDH are hurting because of that. [00:56:00] It's just, it's bizarre.
**Gizmo:** And, you know, like we said, Habanos just spent a ton of money relaunching Trinidad as a premium brand alongside Cohiba just in June. It's August. Out
of necessity.
**Gizmo:** It's August and they're discounting this crazy. And we're seeing stuff sit on the shelves. I mean, you can find anything you want from Trinidad.
Sure. Aside from Fundadores because they've just not been making those, I guess. You can find anything you want. So, it's just lunacy and, and what I've heard from a little birdie, I don't want to credit who this little birdie is, but now what we're hearing is that K Dorce may be the next brand for a relaunch.
Okay, so, wait,
**Grinder:** so, if that's the case, then I don't know. This might be the demise because because they have evidential proof in the market that this is not the strategy does not work, but clearly it's not working. So why are they [00:57:00] doubling down?
Are they looking to increase prices on cuties?
**Gizmo:** I've heard what I've read somewhere.
I don't want to point it out. What I've read is that Kydor say is the next brand to be completely rebranded and repivoted as a higher priced, higher value.
**Grinder:** I can see them re I can see them. trying to elevate the brand because it's a wonderful brand. It really is. It's, it is, it is a gem to do it with the same playbook that they did.
Trini and Cohiba is, is again, what are you doing? You just, you just saw that's not going to work. Yeah. I mean, I, the state of affairs in Cuba. All those, all those examples you cited regarding the resources, the money, people, all these things, water,
**Gizmo:** water,
**Grinder:** and like the fact that they're doubling down, down on these stupid strategies says to me, like, Hey, what's going on with this industry?
Like Cuban, like, are we going to have Cuban cigars [00:58:00] in 5, 6, 7, like, that's what I'm thinking. Will we continue to buy them?
**Gizmo:** Well, the thing is you look at, you look at Cador, Cador say, right, which has also experienced probably a 25 to 30 to 40 percent increase over the same period of time, which You can argue on some of those cigars, maybe it's fair, right?
If you're buying a Corona Sclero, which is a cigar that we all love. No question about it. If you're buying that for 20, 25 bucks, I think anybody in this room would say that's, that's still a fair price for that cigar. We would still buy
that cigar. Now, if
**Gizmo:** that cigar jumps to 40 a cigar.
Not happening.
**Gizmo:** I think despite how good it is, all of us are going to say, well, we're going to look elsewhere for that type of flavor profile.
Correct. We're going to look elsewhere for that type of cigar. That's what happened with consumers. And that's what's happened with Trinidad. Exactly.
**Grinder:** And, and, and the consumer got smart and said, why, you know, why are we doing this? We could find better, if not equal cigars. Steve Sokom coming right for you, baby.
I mean, [00:59:00] they're going to do it again.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's just unbelievable that, uh, that, that we're seeing this with Cohiba and Trinidad and now. And potentially Cudi. And potentially next year, Habanos World Day is doing this with Kai Dorsey, which would not surprise me.
I will say one thing that, you know, all the cigar shops that I frequent, and I know a bunch of people at these locations, both the, Seasoned Cigar Smoker and the Novice Cigar Smoker.
They're, a lot of these guys are pursuing the QD, the Que d'Orsay markup for various reasons. They read, they research, and they see, they understand the consistency of that product. We all love that cigar. It would be a crime to see the price jumps that we've seen with Trinidad and Cohiba to also be applied to Que d'Orsay.
**Grinder:** It's, it's so unbelievable. It's so unreal to believe,
like, and those all, and that whole consumer base will, will evaporate once those prices go up.
**Senator:** Totally. I think the saddest thing is with QD, they already started doing that years [01:00:00] ago. They did. That's true. Across all the markets. QD, I think back to when I first started buying Cuban cigars and even just fast forward three years later from that, four years maybe, the price on QD, Used to be commensurate with Partagas and Monty and all the other brands.
And then fast forward just a few years later. And during the pandemic, it was more than all of those markers. And the problem I had with that is I actually don't think that QD is Any more consistent than any of the other markets. Yeah, that's true. And so again, if you're gonna command a higher price, like the argument with Cohiba is, while the cons consist, the construction's better, the consistency, all these things, and you're paying this premium, the cream of the crop, that's never been the case with cute cuties, never been any different in construction than any other great Cuban markup.
Why, why identify cutie as the,
as the next, as the next elevated? Lemme tell you something doesn't make sense. This is a
**Grinder:** great segue. I, I've, I've had [01:01:00] the experience, I wouldn't say pleasure, but I've had the experience of seeing, of seeing executive leadership in companies begin to make really bizarre decisions when they're under duress and they're not making money.
And this is reminiscent of that across different industries. I've seen executives make really dumb decisions because they're under, under duress to make some kind of profit. And they're pulling all these shit, this, these silly games out of the bag. That's what it kind of looks like to me as an outsider.
Of course. And I've, I've seen it as an, as quote, you know, somewhat. You know, close to that. And that's, this is, this is kind of, this is, this is what it's reminiscent to me. It's what it looks like. And that is not a good sign for Cuban cigars.
**Gizmo:** Well, I also look at is, is every Habanos world days event moving forward going to be an
opportunity to increase the price on a market.
Just
**Gizmo:** choose a market. Okay. So next year, is it going to be cut decay door? Say is the, is [01:02:00] the year after that going to be punch is the year after that going to be Ramon
**Senator:** Iones. You know, wait, wait till my kids old enough to smoke. It's going to be vigueros. It's going to be a premium brand. I mean, this is outrageous, 50 for a vigueros.
**Pagoda:** I don't think so. It's just lunacy. Listen, relax guys. I have an answer for everything. What is it? So my here comes.
**Bam Bam:** Ladies and
**Pagoda:** gentlemen, our whispering angel as he's laying down on the couch. Can you whisper this by the way? So my answer for the QD is Xena's sitting in roosters. Rooster take note, sitting on roosters couch.
There could be no better answer than Xena. You're in a row
**Gizmo:** with pagoda and roosters couch. I think this is working. We should maybe move rooster. To a different chair. We need to call that, put rooster on a stool. This is the roost. I think
**Bam Bam:** rooster on a stool would be great.
**Senator:** That would be good.
**Gizmo:** He'll be a little more edgy, a little closer to you on a high stool.
**Senator:** I think they need to move production to, uh, the same region [01:03:00] as this, uh, to expand production and start making a rolling in, uh, the same region as this. Whispering Angel. Correct. Where is that
**Pagoda:** pagoda? Whispering Angel? I've died. It's in the
region.
**Pagoda:** There you go.
**Bam Bam:** He already forgot. He forgot. He doesn't remember anything.
He got it though. He's good.
**Grinder:** He's good. To his credit, he did say his memory was trash. It is. But you know what?
**Pagoda:** I was just imagining. Rooster on a stool where he's straddling, put him in the
**Bam Bam:** Pagoda.
**Grinder:** What do you think of this cigar
**Gizmo:** smoking? All
**Grinder:** right,
**Gizmo:** boys. We're into the last third here on the Hoya to Monterey Epicure number three.
What are you guys thinking?
It's an outstanding cigar. Really? I hate
**Gizmo:** giving, after that conversation, I hate giving Habano's credit.
No, I know.
**Gizmo:** But this cigar is really
good. It's delicious. We're all roughly in the same stage. It's about an inch and a half from the bottom. [01:04:00] There are no rough edges. It's just, it's getting richer.
It's delicious. As you go through it, this is honestly even
**Senator:** better than I
remembered it, dude.
**Gizmo:** This is excellent. Yeah, this is, this is really, really good. I'm shocked at how good it is. I'm shocked at how the flavor continues to expand and improve. It's so complex. It doesn't taste like fresh tobacco.
I think I'm
**Gizmo:** really impressed
with it.
I think Habanos may elevate this bro. Well, I think in three years, this might be a 75 cigar. Correct.
**Gizmo:** Habanos world days, 2027.
**Grinder:** To, to use, um, UBA jargon. Not to be hyperbolic , but I think I'm in love .
Yeah. Honestly, I think UBA would love this cigar. Oh, I think so too. Oh yeah. Oh
**Gizmo:** yeah. Yeah. I think so. Would I think Rooster would, I think Ricky would, I don't think, I think all the guy,
**Senator:** anyone would put the cigar down right to the bloody end.
I think the, I think the final third of this gets close to, if not medium. Yeah. Yeah. Which is great. [01:05:00] Absolutely. In a creamy way. In
**Pagoda:** a creamy, sweeter way. Yeah. I don't know. It's like a sweet cream. Yeah. Sweet cream. Very accurate.
**Gizmo:** So I got a question now that we're Icelandic cream? Is
**Pagoda:** it from a
**Gizmo:** goat?
**Pagoda:** Heavy cream.
Also we can talk a lot about cream here.
**Gizmo:** I'm going to, I'm going to blow right past that comment. Correct. So I got a question for you guys is we're discussing as we discussed this cigar being in line with other oil cigars flavor profile wise, I'm curious because I it's it is an outlier to me with with oil.
And I know you guys disagree with me. I
kind of agree with you.
**Gizmo:** This doesn't taste like any other oil I've had. It's the same. It's different than the Epi One, Epi
Number Two.
**Gizmo:** Epi One to me is earthy, Epi Two is, is a very simple Robusto. It's not as complex as this. Even the best ones I've had, it's not as interesting.
You don't have the sweet cream effect that you're having here in either cigar.
**Gizmo:** Exactly right. And what I wanted to ask the crew here, who disagree with me on my commentary.
Not to put aside the fact that [01:06:00] those are both very good cigars, if you get a good one. If.
**Gizmo:** If right, which is probably what 40 percent of the time.
That's right. So my question is, is what do you compare this to at this point in the cigar? Now we've, we're, we're getting to the end here, but is it in line with, with the other Hoyas you've had? Like what other Cuban cigar are you comparing this to?
**Senator:** I'll just say this number one in the Epi line. I think the Epi one is the outlier.
I actually think the Epi one is unlike most oils I've had. I would even go as far as saying, I don't think it has a place in that Epicure line. I think this is much more like an Epi two or an Epi Epicure Especial.
**Bam Bam:** I think that
**Senator:** some of the best ones that you would find in the Epi two or the Especial have similar DNA as this cigar.
**Bam Bam:** I
**Senator:** think that this cigar is. Actually milder than some of the, uh, best Epi twos and as [01:07:00] best as I've had, but sweeter, but sweeter. And, and just the, the, the, there's something, this is almost hard to explain. And there's a particular cigar that I won't mention because we'll talk about this on another pod and it's, it's not released yet.
There are certain cigars that are milder and profile. That find a way to deliver so much flavor. I just think for this cigar, there's some of the DNA of the Epi 2 and the Epi Especial. But what's unique about this is I actually think this is a milder delivery than either of those yet. There's so much flavor and so much to be satisfied with here.
That's the, like, I don't want to call it a departure because I think some of the DNA is there. It's just what's unique and remarkable about what they've done. And I think that's some of the hardest to do and achieve in blending. And I have to give oil credit, a marker that I have [01:08:00] shit on regularly. I, and I, I happily admit it because there's just too many times I've been disappointed and we've been disappointed.
One of the only cigars, I think there's two sticks. One was new world and unfortunately the Cuban, it was, uh, an oil, uh, elegance that cigar. I couldn't, the construction was so poor on mine. I couldn't smoke the cigar. I had to put it down halfway through just cause I literally couldn't smoke it. That is supremely disappointing for a cigar that's like 20.
That's correct. No, that's, that's an expensive cigar. It's an LCDH. More than that. That's an expensive cigar now. It's just outrageous. I, I, there are 5 cigars that I can smoke all the way through. I, I can't believe that I would have that problem there. But this deserves a world of credit.
Yeah, this is kind of reminiscent of a meal that has very few ingredients in it, but that delivers a delicious experience.
That's very, very hard to do that. I love that analogy. It's, it's, it's very reminiscent of that type of experience. Few [01:09:00] ingredients, but delicious, delicious experience.
**Grinder:** I was flashing up the deuces when Senator was, was, was, uh, was before he got to his punchline. We was talking about the analogous to different, uh, HHoyos.
That's where I see the DNA, the number two, the especial. That is something, I mean, those cigars for me, that's how I got introduced. to Cuban cigars. I've said it before. When I think about Cuban cigars, that's kind of what I, that's where, that's my grounding. That's my home base. And I, this is, this is just, everything about this is sublime to me.
I think a lot of what you were saying, it's hard to describe. When we talk about these cigars, if you guys think about how we talk about these cigars, oftentimes we're, we're kind of, it begs the listener to actually go smoke it themselves. Of course. Because what we're describing is so unique and personal to us.
You can't have, like, we're just, we're just enticing you. You know, we're not going to give you the, the full rundown of chef's kiss of what this [01:10:00] actually should taste like when I smoke the cigar, I want to keep smoking it on and on and on again. And I think the listener would or should as well.
**Gizmo:** So boys, we're coming to the end of our evening here with our pairing, the whispering angel, Rosé. The HHoyo epicure number three.
How, what
**Gizmo:** a fantastic
pairing. How can you complain about this pairing? I'm
**Gizmo:** shocked, honestly, both entrances tonight. Yeah. Very surpris surprising. It
was a last minute thing and it just, I think, came together great.
**Gizmo:** It came together really, really well. Yeah. This is my first sip ever of, of a rose. Mm-Hmm. . I, I'm shocked at how much I'm enjoying it.
Will you have more of this?
**Gizmo:** I will, we don't have anymore, but I will when I, when I get some, yes. But it's, it's a really, really nice, easy drinking spirit with a, with a wine, or with a cigar.
Be
**Grinder:** careful. Be careful. You can drink a lot of it. You can drink a lot of it. Can you believe
**Senator:** Whispering Angel is distributed in a hundred countries now? [01:11:00] Really? Wow. A hundred. Wow. So I'm not surprised. By the
**Gizmo:** way, so is the Lounge Lizards podcast. Correct! That's correct! A perfect theory.
Pagoda abundance, abundance. All right, boys. It's time to move into our ratings tonight. Let's do the formal liquor rating now on the whispering angel, Rose, Bam Bam, you're up.
So I have a lot of memories with this, with Mrs. Bam Bam. So, um, my rating is going to be very high. I haven't ever had this with a cigar.
However, this is my first experience and because of what it is tonight for me and the price point, I got to give it a 10. Wow. I love it. I have to give it a 10. It just worked very well with this cigar. It just, it infused itself beautifully with the smoke.
**Pagoda:** You know, the price point, everything is great about this.
Fantastic. Yeah. Pro Bono. Grinder.
**Grinder:** I'm a 10. No way.
**Pagoda:** I'm a 10.
Oh, he's had it. I mean. He's also had a [01:12:00] lot of experience with this. I love, I
**Grinder:** love this wine. And Mrs. Grinder likes it as well. She loves it. I love it. Everyone loves it. I think it goes great with a lot of things. For this cigar, I think it's found its sweet spot.
Um, I just, I, I like drinking it not with a cigar even. Like, I'll drink it anytime.
**Gizmo:** What are you trying to say? I'm
**Grinder:** just trying to say I like this wine, that's all. And, uh, I, uh, In the shower?
**Gizmo:** Oh!
**Grinder:** In the shower. You're moving into poobah land now. In the hot tub, on the deck. Oh yeah. I'll drink it anywhere. www.
larryweaver. com All right, Senator.
**Senator:** I, I love the enthusiasm for Rose. I'll start. Here's the butt. Here's the butt. Here we go. But it's a seven. Uh, but no, I'm also going to give this a very high score. I'm going to give it a nine. Um, I'm going to give it a nine because at its price point, I think for how Easily accessible.
This is you, you could literally go in any liquor store, including [01:13:00] a supermarket liquor store, and you'll always reliably be able to find this. And there's no one that's going to, that wants a Rosé that's going to drink this and say, Oh, this is a bad Rosé or I can't enjoy this. There's something to appreciate about it.
I think for anybody who likes Rosé period, um, I think the, the dry nature Is why I like it and no matter how ubiquitous it gets, I'm always going to be happy to have a glass of it. The only reason for me it's not a 10 is it's, it's not a complex rosé by any stretch. Correct. It's very straightforward and most rosés are pretty straightforward.
Mm hmm. Um, some rosés are more complex and that's a journey. I'm glad that now we've hopefully, it seems, opened Pandora's box where I will source some other roses that I think we'll enjoy and we're gonna go down that rabbit hole. Let's go the Rose route. Correct? The Rose
**Grinder:** Road all day. Rose. All
**Senator:** day Rose. I can't wait to see Gizmo in a T-shirt that says all day [01:14:00] rose and boat shoes.
You know, you
**Grinder:** know you're getting an Amazon gift package in like a week. Let's go. One of us procures it. I'll, I hate to break it to you Gizmo. They don't wear boat shoes in France. You're gonna need like a beret, .
**Gizmo:** I need the shirt in the medium though. I
**Grinder:** don't think that, let me just say this. This is an American phenomenon.
We made this, we made Rosé Whispering Angel what it is. Oh, yeah, this is true. In
this
**Grinder:** episode. No, no. In this fucking episode, we made it. Amen, brother. All right. Yeah, all
right.
**Grinder:** But like, 6 million bottles of 7T. They're going to be 16 million next year. You're goddamn right. But like 2015, that's kind of when it took off.
And that's when millennials started drinking wine and they went for Rosé hard. And that's what, that's what elevated this whole, this whole, like Rosé thing. It's us here. It's not France. We just imported the shit and drank it. That's my, that's my story.
**Senator:** And the last thing I'll say just about Rosé generally and, and Whispering Angel is a huge part of that, [01:15:00] obviously story.
To Grindr's point. About millennials, you know, there's so many young people that are somewhat curious about wine, but also afraid of wine. You know, it's a massive category that you can go. It doesn't matter if you're one of the biggest wine critics in the world or just an everyday consumer of wine, you will never even close to trying.
A majority of wines that exist, this is way bigger than spirits in terms of just the different, you know, varietals and, and brands and vineyards and stuff. And so it's so intimidating. And what I do appreciate about Rosé for the young generation is Grindr is talking about is it has created this like, Easy entry point.
Yeah. To start to appreciate wine and go down, you know, first the, uh, the, the road of rose or the rabbit hole, the Rose Road , and [01:16:00] then try, you know, other whites and other reds. And I, I, I really appreciate what this category has done to bring more young people into the fold because wine is an intimidating category, as passionate as I am about wine.
It it is the, the thing that. No matter how much I learn or try, I still feel light years behind in what I should try and what I can experience in a way that I don't when it comes to spirits, um, or even cigars. And so I think it deserves this whole category. And Whispering Angel, especially. Wow. A world of
credit.
Am I sensing a little humility here? That's, that's, that's quite the, uh, I like it.
**Gizmo:** So for me, it's also a nine. Um, I, I think complexity, that's where I was going to go, is I, I can, you know, like I said, this is my first attempt at Rosé tonight. It, it does not taste like a super complex spirit. It's a [01:17:00] 20, 20.
Spirit, people love it, but I know that there's more out there. It's a wine, it's
**Senator:** not a spirit.
**Gizmo:** It's a wine.
**Bam Bam:** But keep
**Gizmo:** going. He invalidated my score.
**Bam Bam:** Correct.
**Gizmo:** So for, for the, for the, for the wine, you know, my first time having it, I can taste, you know, it's a little, just a little bit of a rough edge right at the end of the finish.
Really? Very, very end. The other thing too, you know, what we do here, it, how it pairs with cigars, I think this would pair very well. With very few of the cigars that we smoke here,
it'll definitely stay in the, in the Cuban. It's got to stay mild, mild Cuban or
**Gizmo:** mild, mild new world or mild. Yeah.
If there are,
**Gizmo:** yeah, that's true.
But like very much, you know, like really not even touching media.
**Senator:** I mean, I say that just look in fairness, we need to be a little introspective here. We don't review mild new worlds. No, we don't. That's true. That's true. Like, I think that's being said because we don't do them, but they exist. I mean, Grindr in the morning enjoys a mild new world.
I've had mild new worlds. I [01:18:00] think they are great with this.
I mean, uh,
**Bam Bam:** He just shrugged it, Bam. He did. In fairness, we all love the VSG. Yeah, the VSG is great. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** But I think that, I, I, I'm looking forward to seeing what else is out there. I think that a 20 bottle, this is a great start and I'm very, very happy with it tonight.
And it's pairing with this cigar was excellent. So it's a nine. I'm very happy with that. Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Um, you know, to echo everyone's sentiment, I was, uh, uh, with a client at a restaurant in New York city and it was a hot summer day. We were sitting outside and I ordered a chilled beer and he ordered a rose and I was like a rose.
And, uh, well, he's French, but that's really it, right? I think it's, uh, you know, it's becoming very popular and it's omnipresent now and it's fantastic. I think for me, the rating is a strong nine, really, really enjoyed, uh, this wine and, you know, [01:19:00] um, like I'd like to say. I'd like to give it a nine for this beautiful rose from Provence.
**Gizmo:** thank you to our Whispering Angel and the formal liquor rating tonight on the Whispering Angel Rose is a 9.4.
That's outrageous. What a score. Wow.
**Gizmo:** No. What a great
**Pagoda:** score for, you know, something which is a 20 $20. 20, 20 bucks. That's crazy. Senator. Uh, we, we all said, you know, sometimes in a backyard and we are drinking a lot of champagne.
I think Rose is gonna be in the mix for sure. For sure, for sure. I have
**Senator:** another French rose that's like $15. Oh, please try that soon.
**Bam Bam:** Oh yeah, . I want to try that before summer's
**Senator:** over. That's the other thing that we haven't said, that that should be Rose as a category is very affordable. The most expensive roses are not expensive.
No one's buying a 300 rose. That doesn't even, not that I've seen, that doesn't exist.
**Bam Bam:** Mm
**Senator:** hmm. It's [01:20:00] super affordable because it's much easier for these vineyards to make. It doesn't require age. It's, it's, they don't need to worry about, um, there being any kind of harsh, Aggressive acidity, because it's easy to achieve that with short time.
So the price point on pretty much every rosé you can pick up, you're looking at between 10 and 40 bucks. Wow. Period. Honestly,
it's a bit of a revelation tonight.
**Pagoda:** No,
**Senator:** it
**Pagoda:** is. And you know, on a hot summer day with a chilled rosé, just the color. I have done it many times. Many times. Yeah, absolutely.
**Senator:** And sorry, the other thing we should note, rosé used to be viewed as a drink for women.
That's true. And you look at rosé now. Over the last decade, men are drinking rosé just as much as women. There's no longer this, it's, you know, for one or the other. And, you know, I think to Pagoda's point, you're sitting out in the yard on a hot day, even having a cigar, there is absolutely a place for it. I,
**Grinder:** I, I put it in line with like, To [01:21:00] your, your, your, your comment kind of made me think this Aperol Spritz, they're great.
They're an amazing drink that traditionally you think like that's a woman's drink. Yep. But everyone drinks Aperol Spritz. That's true. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Or Negroni. Yeah. But that's viewed as more masculine. That's definitely more masculine. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But Aperol Spritz, you see a macho guy.
Roll up to a happy hour and say, I'll take an Aperol spritz. Like, and no one, no one, no one questions. Blinks an eye. Yeah. Oh, I think they still blink an eye. Unfortunately. Maybe I just don't give a shit.
**Pagoda:** It's the comeback of the metrosexuals. It's about time. Tranquilo, tranquilo. All right. All right. I'm
**Bam Bam:** just kidding.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move into the formal lizard rating. Now on the Hoyo de Monterrey, Epicure number three from Cuba. Pagoda, you're up.
**Pagoda:** Oh, this has, uh, been interesting. I, you know, I've been thinking between nine and ten. It's a strong nine for me. Um, [01:22:00] really, really enjoyed, you know, I think the sour bread, I, one could equate it to, uh, like, uh, yogurt, but I, like, I, I didn't think of yogurt as, you know, uh, sour bread.
that didn't come into my mind when I was smoking this, but definitely the sour bread kind of feeling. And then I think the second half was really sweet cream for me. So the way I look at it is, it's like, for me, it was a very simple two act play, but good combustion, great feel on the hand. Um, Really good cigar.
Really good burn lines. It's fantastic. And it's a nine for me. It's uh, really, really enjoyed today's experience, especially with the pairing. I think, uh, they kind of complemented each other. They did. And it might have been a random pairing. I know that Bam walked out and just picked it out of a liquor store.
It's worked so well. It's been a very pleasant nine. Fantastic pairing. And it's a strong nine for me. [01:23:00]
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a nine. I think tonight, this is the best HHoyo I've had. It's certainly not the best Cuban cigar I've had. I do think that there's room to grow in this cigar. I think with a little time, it could get even better.
I didn't taste youth, but I tasted potential. And I think that this cigar with a little bit of time, and we're smoking this under a year of age, it's not even been released a year, under a year of age, I think the cigar can keep getting better and better. And I'm curious how it will grow. And I think we should try to.
Get some and maybe age them and have them in a few years to try them again. But I think this is, this is some of the best of Hoya de Monterey out of Cuba. I'm, I'm really, really impressed with the cigar. Uh, I, I can't say much more about it. It was really good. It wasn't great. It was really good. It's a nine.
Senator.
**Senator:** I'm at a strong nine, and I'm gonna go as far as to say it was great. Um, I think if there's any Hoyo that a Cuban cigar smoker should try, it's this. I think [01:24:00] for Hoyo's lighter profile, the amount of flavor that this delivers, And that represents, I think, still the DNA, the brand. This is as good as it gets.
Um, I love the size. I, I mean, actually, I guess I, I do wish it was a little longer. I agree with you on that. I mean, if it had another inch, I think it could be even, even better. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I smoked it all the way down to the nub. I'll take another one,
please.
**Senator:** It's a, it's truly an excellent cigar. I mean, the only reason I didn't give it a 10 is for, for my palate.
The cigar that's going to get a 10 needs to be able to hold up to an evening a bit better than this does. I smoked this for the first time in the afternoon. I think it is a spectacular afternoon cigar to start any smoking session with this and then build from there. It's impossible to be disappointed.
Completely agree. Um, I think there's something for. Anyone who enjoys a Cuban cigar or anyone who likes [01:25:00] a milder or mild medium new world cigar, I think would love this. Um, the price point, you said we paid 20 something for this. Yeah. It's between 22 and 25. Yeah. I've seen them online go as high as 30, 32.
Oh, wow. Yeah. I literally just checked a box of 25 for 800 bucks. Um, and you know, that's too high. That price point is aggressive. Um, but I would say even at that price point, that's why I'm at a nine. Even if it's 30, if you haven't had this cigar, I still strongly recommend, I would pay 30 to try. It's a must try.
One of these cigars is try a three pack. Yeah. Yeah. It's that good. Yeah. And so, um, I, I hope that this turns a new leaf for Hoyo because if they can continue to make some new stuff remotely as good as this. I may detract my disdain for that entire markup. Yeah? Well, I don't
think you'll ever be able to do [01:26:00] that with that markup, unfortunately.
**Grinder:** Alright, Grider. I'm the foil here because I actually really enjoy this markup. Um, as I mentioned in previous commentary. This has a special place in my heart. I was introduced to Cuban cigars through this marca, um, and, uh, ages ago. And, um, I think for a similar reason why Senator, it isn't giving it a 10.
I'm definitely giving it a 10, uh, because this is, you know, right where I, I'd like to smoke my cigars. I like a more mild, uh, uh, bodied cigar these days. And obviously there's, there might be some nostalgia playing into this score. Um, but I, as soon as I lit this, I knew this was going to be sublime. And, and I think I, that was evidenced in the whole experience tonight.
Um, I, I don't know what else to say. It's it's all the flavors that I mentioned were, were resounding from beginning to end. I didn't really catch a change Uh, and for me, that's, that's perfectly fine. [01:27:00] Yeah. Um, if it's good, if it's good, you know, don't change it. And they didn't change it. And I like the size.
I never smoked this size, this Vittola. I thought it was perfect. I liked the tapered end, whether it's a torpedo or robusto with. You know, torpedo, however we want to describe it, I think it, it, it really crystallized the flavors perfectly. Um, and the burn was, was, was wonderful. The construction was wonderful.
There was a lot of smoke in this room. Um, and I, it's, it's obviously a 10 for me, obviously. Wow.
**Senator:** One thing grinder made a good point about the combustion. I don't think that there is. As short a cigar as this is that produces as much combustion. And I say that because I'm always the one talking about after a stressful day, wanting to be a chimney.
Yeah. You want to be the cloud of smoke. Yeah.
**Senator:** And I, I always, any cigar I would pick up, it's at least five, you know, [01:28:00] inches in length that can deliver that experience. And then usually a 54 ring gauge. And so for this cigar in this shorter format, you know, let's say I have limited time and I want to be a chimney.
This is the only candidate
I think because of the, as short as it is with the ring gauge, that combination and dimension, that's, I think what's providing that combustion.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. And I think that the way that they pack the tobacco into the blend, it's working, you know,
combustion wise and it's dense, but it feels very light in the hand.
Yeah. Yeah. All right, Bam Bam, you're up. Honestly, I'm at a solid nine. I can't tell you how much I enjoyed this. As Pagode mentioned earlier, right on the money, as you get deeper into the cigar, it got creamier. It got a little sweeter. It was enjoyable right down to the bloody end. It was fantastic. Totally agree, yeah.
Just a great experience. And I don't remember the last time we all gushed over a Cuban cigar like this. Um, It's been about six months. I think I'll tell you if it was between, yeah, if it was between 20 and [01:29:00] 25 a cigar, this would be a 10, but at 30 bucks, it's a nine. You know, I was
**Pagoda:** excited when you said it was about 20 bucks.
I was too. We paid
**Gizmo:** 22 for
it. Oh, that's yeah. That's at that price, dude. I'm, I'm, I'm giving, I would give it a 10. That's a
**Senator:** steal that price. I mean, literally
everywhere I see is more than that. Yeah. So I think a nine is a great, great score for this.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, that puts the formal lizard rating tonight on the Hoya de Monterrey Epicure number three from Cuba.
At a 9. 2. Dude. Wow. That is a great,
**Pagoda:** probably the highest oil, right? Oh, let's go through the
**Gizmo:** boys. Let's go through them. So we've done four other oils on the podcast on episode 18. We did the, did the epicure number two, which scored a 7. 3 on episode 74. We took a little break. The elehantus LCDH, the perfecto scored a 4.
8
**Gizmo:** on episode 103. We did the epicure number one, which scored a 6.
**Bam Bam:** 7.
**Gizmo:** And finally, on episode 131, [01:30:00] we did the double Corona's, which scored a 7. 7. We should do the especial. We should do the especial. We should. Yeah. So this this is definitely the best. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. We've done on the pod. And for me personally, It's the best toilet I've ever had.
That double corona
experience was really disappointing. Yeah, that was a bummer. You know, when we first had those the very first time, it was incredible. But
**Senator:** something's happened
to
**Senator:** them. I'm just thrilled that the fact that I had this months ago in Cuba, and we've sourced this months later and had as good, if not better experience as I did, there's consistency here.
That's what we are just asking in that cigar. Yeah. It's just a consistent experience. If we have something we like, replicate it. And thankfully they have finally done that.
**Gizmo:** They found the formula. All right, boys, a great night tonight on the pod and a great pairing again on the Whispering Angel. Rosé scored a 9.
4 and the Joyeux du Monterey Epicure No. 3 scored a 9. 2. What a [01:31:00] great night. Congratulations to Lizard Sean on winning Lizard of the Week. He's gonna get a nice package of stuff from us, from our humidors. And, uh, if you want to win Lizard of the Week, send us a great email. A voice memo, a comment on YouTube or Instagram.
We, uh, we are always happy to hear from you. Of course, thanks to our sponsor Fabrica5. And that's it boys. We'll see everybody next week. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us. You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website. LoungeLizardsPod. com. That's LoungeLizardsPOD.
com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking. Email us hello at loungelizardspod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next [01:32:00] week.