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Advent has officially begun! As a way to prep for this season, enjoy a revisit of last year's conversation with Bette Dickinson about her book Making Room in Advent: 25 Devotions for a Season of Wonder.
See you in 2024 with new episodes of After IV!
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Why Advent? with Jason Gaboury (Apple, Spotify)
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See you in 2024 with new episodes of After IV!
RELATED EPISODE
Why Advent? with Jason Gaboury (Apple, Spotify)
STAY IN TOUCH
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Creators & Guests
Host
Jon Steele
Jon Steele, a 2011 InterVarsity alumnus from Minnesota State Mankato, lives in Mankato, MN with his wife Kaitlynn and their two daughters. He’s been on staff with InterVarsity since 2012 and has been hosting After IV since its debut in 2020. He is also the producer and primary editor for the podcast. Jon enjoys gaming, reading, and leading worship at his church.
What is After IV?
Hey, InterVarsity alumni! This is After IV, your podcast for navigating life after graduation. This is both an exciting and potentially tricky transition you’re making and you might feel a little unsure about the coming weeks and months. We’re here to provide you with expert advice, practical skills, and plenty of encouragement as you learn how to keep saying "Yes!" to Jesus in your new context. This is After IV, and this podcast is for you, alumni.
After IV
REVISIT: Making Room in Advent with Bette Dickinson
Podcast Intro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)
Jon Steele 0:09
Hey everyone. I'm Jon Steele. And this is After IV: a podcast for InterVarsity alumni. Life after college is hard. And even a great experience with your InterVarsity chapter doesn't shield you from the challenges of transition. As we hear stories from real alumni learning how to make it in their post-InterVarsity reality, my hope is that this podcast will offer some encouragement, a few laughs and even some hope for the future. This is After IV, and these are your stories.
Interview
Well, hello, Bette.
Bette Dickinson 0:41
Hi. Thanks for having me on here, Jon.
Jon Steele 0:43
I'm so excited that you're here. I've been looking forward to talking for a while now. Can I just say before we even get into talking about it that your book has to be visually and even the way that it feels one of the coolest IVP books that I have kept on my shelf before so when I opened that box, I was like, This is so cool.
Bette Dickinson 1:02
Oh my goodness. That's awesome. I have a six year old who was watching the video of Laurie Neff, the marketing director, open it in the warehouse and she's like, Oh my gosh, you guys, this is so beautiful. I handed some boss you know how good that feels. And about a week later, he was like, Mommy, I'm so proud of you for writing this book. And I was like, Oh, thanks, buddies. Like, it's so cool. I'm like, why is it so cool? It's like because it's embossed. The cutest thing for a six year old is definitely stuck with him.
Jon Steele 1:34
Yes, that's fantastic. He is totally right. It is extra cool because it's embossed. Bette, I'm excited to hear more about your book. But first, let's just get to know you, Bette, who are we spending our episode with today?
Bette Dickinson 1:47
My husband and and our two boys and I live in Traverse City, Michigan, which is surrounded by water. It's a beautiful area and very inspiring to me as an artist and I describe myself as an artist, writer, speaker, I'm just launching a ministry called awakening the soul where we create resources and experiences that awaken the sort of ministry leaders through beauty and wonder I had a mentor once asked me if you were to describe what you feel most created to do in three verbs, how would you describe it? And I would say, contemplate, create and communicate. Those are the things that get me really excited. I love to be around beauty and nature and creation. I think in another life, I could have been a contemplative, Mystic nun that just spent her life in solitude. Yet, you know, here I am with two boys and very full life. So I'm a Marvel movie fan and played water polo in high school and college and still have dreams of reliving my glory days and water polo. So yeah, that's a smattering of who I am.
Jon Steele 2:53
Yes, I love that the three C's that you gave me as I engage with making room and adventure. It's just like, yeah, that totally makes sense. Those descriptors fit to a tee that's that's or to a see maybe. Nice. So Bette as an alumni podcast, we love hearing stories about how people got connected to InterVarsity. So tell us how did you get to know InterVarsity in the first place?
Bette Dickinson 3:16
Well, I love InterVarsity. I got connected when I was a freshman in college at Western Michigan University. I was involved pretty quickly as a student leader than volunteered while I was in seminary of getting my MDiv then I came back to Western Michigan University on staff to help plant an arts ministry called Imago Dei, love artists and working with artists and actually my husband and I met through InterVarsity in 2007 at a leadership training camp at Cedar campus. So it's played a very significant role in my life. And my last job with InterVarsity was the assistant director of spiritual formation. So have loved helping staff in particular grow and their relationship with Jesus.
Jon Steele 3:56
Your experience with InterVarsity is there one that stands out to you that you say this has had a significant impact and moving me towards who God is making me today?
Bette Dickinson 4:08
Wow. So many and diversity has played such a significant role in my discipleship. I will share about one significant moment later when it comes to the book. But I think one that comes to mind is actually when I went to Urbana 2006 We focused on the AIDS pandemic. And I remember feeling so burdened by that. And I remember praying God, I'm only an artist, what can I do? And I'm only a college student, what can I do? And in the large dome, I just got this image of all of these different pieces of art that were raising awareness for what was happening in the AIDS crisis. And God planted a seed in me that a year later I then created this exhibit and partnered with World Vision to do it and raise $2,000 through a silent auction. It was an amazing experience. But I think what it planted in me is recognizing God has created me as an artist and he won asked me to do ministry as an artist and I think for a long time have been trying to figure that out, how do I do ministry as an artist. And so really, that played a significant role in my journey that really shaped the trajectory I'm on now, even back from 2006.
Jon Steele 5:16
And it's exciting that today we get to talk about part of the lineage of that story. So shall we jump in to making room and Advent here?
Bette Dickinson 5:24
Yeah, let's do it. Awesome.
Jon Steele 5:26
So first, just very broadly tell us what is making room in Advent about and what is it for?
Bette Dickinson 5:33
So making room in advance a 25 day devotional based on the birth narrative, and Luke one to two, basically, each devotional starts with the painting, it guides the reader to reflect on the painting to center with God in the story that way, and then it gets into the scripture for the day it then unpacks what's happening the story of the character like Zechariah, or Elizabeth or Mary, and then where does this impact our story? What I love about Luke's narrative is in Luke one to five, he says, I took it upon myself to draw up an account. And that word for account is literally narrative. He's writing a story. And rather than giving truth claims to sort of validate the truth of who Jesus is, he said, the way that you will know who Jesus is, is through flesh and blood stories of the people who encountered him. Yes, the word of God becomes flesh in the person of Jesus. But it also becomes flesh in the stories of Zechariah. And Elizabeth and Mary and Simeon and Anna and the shepherds who are wrestling through their own doubts and very human struggles and longings. And I just felt so compelled to share this story is because we need to see the word of God become flesh, in our stories in the stories of real people. So it's about that journey, and trying to help readers make room in their own lives for the new thing that God is doing in our time. And I think that we see from these characters in this story, them making room for salvation, that making room for God's work in their lives in a new way, that changes everything that changes them, that changes the story that they're in. And I wanted to tell it in ways that would help people re enter the art of it, because it is our invoking if we really understand the fullness of it. And so that's what it is. And then each day ends with a reflection question to help the reader get into their own story and how it impacts them. And then a breath prayer. And the breath. Prayer is really a brief prayer to embody the main truth through the day. The first entry for example, is inhale Mayer word. And exhale, become flesh in me. So it's just a way to keep praying through the intention of the day. So that's what the book is.
Jon Steele 7:55
That's great, which feels like a very easy piece than to carry with you through your day. We're breathing all day long. I can take this with me, I can breathe in, I can breathe out. And I can remember. And I love the idea of this being something that is carried out through the stories of people. It's not just an apologetic, but like, here's the stories of people encountering Jesus and being transformed. Bette, what sort of birthed this work in you what started to bring it into being?
Bette Dickinson 8:20
The other significant, InterVarsity event that sparked this in my life was I was a part of a cohort of women called the Women's Daniel project that InterVarsity had selected as up and coming potential leaders that they wanted to invest in, which was so beautiful. And what was fascinating as we began to study the passage, where Elizabeth calls forth this blessing and says, Who am I, the mother of my Lord should come to me and that's what erupts Mary into singing her Magnificat. And in so many ways, this group of women were embodying these stories together receiving from God, how he wanted to become flesh and blood and our stories and the new thing that he was creating through each of us. So for each of the women in the cohort, we had to take on a project that would help us live into what our unique contribution is to the organization and to the kingdom of God. And in a way that isn't a felt need that our movement has. So I was invited by Andrea Thomas Hua, Director of Marketing at the time to consider doing a four part Advent devotional using my paintings and writing to bless ministry partners. So I did and what was fascinating about it was while I was actually working on the first painting of the Annunciation, I was sitting in my in laws craft room, and I had the painting on the floor, thinking about the mystery of how Mary was pregnant with God, you know, just amazed by that. And I was like, I think I might be pregnant. And I found out next day that I was, so it was just another layer of embodiment into the story of recognizing, oh, wow, I get the honor to walk with Mary and ponder literally while I'm pregnant. what it must have been like for her to be pregnant with Jesus, it was just so inspiring to live into that. But also, I don't know about you, Jon. But I've been in various churches for many years. And Christmas comes around every year. I have never heard the story of Mary and Elizabeth told. What's fascinating to me is that Luke, in a patriarchal culture centers the story on these two women as models and examples of faith. And they're living connected to the story in their bodies, but also these prophetic declarations like the Magnificat and Elizabeth's call of Mary that I just had never heard in churches. And I was like, I think we need to hear these stories and launch, like I said, to do it in a way that would reawaken people to the beauty of the story and to want to lean in. And something about the interaction of the painting. And the words itself can do that for people.
Jon Steele 10:52
Being pregnant yourself, as you are stepping into this process in a way that I could never understand. I have to think that it would bind you to the things that you were making. And that's just exciting to know that those kinds of things were going on in the background as well. I mean, for you is in the foreground, yeah. All the time. For us, it's in the background as we're going through this devotional, but to know that that's part of the framework of the creation of these pieces, that just gives us so much more life. So the first thing that we talked about, even before we jumped into the book was the artwork. I'd like to spend some time just digging in. I'm about the least qualified person to talk about this with you. So forgive me, but as I look at the pieces of art in this book, I mean, it is captivating. When I look at the color palette, it almost feels somber, to me almost the sadness of these blues that gets so dark that they almost turn black, all of these neutral colors, these browns and whites. But in the midst of that, that there is so much movement that's happening, there is life, there is hope. And so can you just give us some insight into what's happening for you as you are creating these pieces? What is the style that you're using communicating?
Bette Dickinson 12:02
I think he actually did a really great job explaining it. So kudos to Well, thank you. First of all, I think Christmas sometimes has become so glib and superficial. And it kind of misses the point that we needed a Savior to come. And I think what I wanted to do was to sit in the longing of the characters in the need for a Savior so that when light comes, it's clear there was darkness there that needed light. And so there is a lot of contrast there. What was really fascinating even in the process of creating this, especially since it was over a course of five years, I think the reason why God wanted me to slow down over that course to tell the story is because he needed me to embody and understand the depths of the characters. For example, I have a friend Danny who had really struggled with infertility while I was working on the series, and I just sat in grief with her. She had a miscarriage and actually on the due date of her miscarried baby, she found out she was pregnant again with now her son Bo. So I actually had her model for me, Elizabeth, in one of the paintings where she's on her knees and holding her arms up. And it's trying to hold intention, which I think she did beautifully in the posture that she held the grief of barrenness, and the waiting and the longing and the ache and the need for a Savior, and the joy of pregnancy, the arrival of the Savior into that story and the arrival of hope. And so that's what I was trying to communicate wrestling through that and visualizing that in a way that I hope people will see the story of fresh.
Jon Steele 13:39
How many pieces are in the book, but there's 18. Were there any that didn't make the final cut, or ones that you're getting close to the end, and you're like, there's just something that needs to be redone here.
Bette Dickinson 13:50
So I did a second iteration of the paintings in 20, right, added another five, and I remember feeling pressure, gotta get these paintings done. And I even like finished them and sprayed them with the finishing spray that you do. And then I looked at them, and I was like, they're not done. Oh, no. And I actually want to go back and like sand them down. And I felt in some ways, the paintings were inviting me back into the story and inviting me to slow down and saying, Bette, we're not finished with you either. You know, there's some work I want to do on you while you paint these. And as well. One piece that I redid was the Magnificat. It's a painting that has these justice scales. In the scales are different people groups that are represented in the story, the rich and the wealthy that are sort of sent away and then the humble and the hungry who are lifted up. Initially. I just sort of painted them as as abstract figures on the scale but then I just felt God saying no, you need to make them more concrete because people need to understand what this is that this is not an abstract concept. This is actual rulers in our world who will tap off from their thrones in the king of God, I also felt that I needed to go back and paint some of the skin tones darker of some of the main figures and make sure that they were more in line with how they would have been Mary and Joseph and the shepherds, they would have been people of color, you know, I had painted them darker, but I even darken them further. Wanting to make sure that was clear.
Jon Steele 15:21
You cover this in your intro, but through each of these pieces, there is an image or at least a piece of an image that comes up each time. And that's a stump. Tell us what is the stump? About why is it present in each of these pieces?
Bette Dickinson 15:34
Yeah, so the word for that is motif. And basically,
Jon Steele 15:38
I've heard that word before.
Bette Dickinson 15:39
It's a picture that recurs through each of the paintings, like you said, and the image is the stump of the Jesse tree. So if the listeners are familiar with the prophecy in Isaiah 11, that the people of Israel were like the stump of this Jesse tree, and then at some point, a shoot would grow up from the stump of Jesse as the Messiah and redeem what was broken and decaying and dying. And I use that as a metaphor in the paintings because I think there's something really compelling around the fact that when Jesus came, He didn't just appear he was born into a family line of people crying out to God, longing for salvation. He's anchored in our humanity in that way. And the stump in its roots, has this concept of both rootedness and God in the story, but also it had been cut down. And there was the sense of hopelessness. I mean, the people of Israel were not who they were when King David was king, they were just a remnant, and the sense that God would then come and reclaim this surviving remnant through the shoot of Jesse being Jesus and Messiah. And so instead of depicting the shoot as an actual shoot, I decided to actually picture Jesus growing in the womb, there's a hollow in the tree. And at the start of the Annunciation painting, I painted a little tiny embryo, and white and all of the paintings represents, if I were to picture what the Holy Spirit is doing in that scene, that's what I would envision. And you see the white, almost like white lightning or white roots intertwining with the brown roots of the Jesse tree showing this intermingling between the divine and the human. And in each painting, then the hollow images, Jesus grows through each of the paintings as the story progresses, until then he's born and then he's out of the hollow again, and in Mary and Joseph's arms are growing, and you see him depicted in the temple. And so I wanted it to be something that kind of anchored the whole story around the people of Israel. And it's a sign of hope that when God comes into our stories, he takes what is old and decaying, saying, where's the hope? Where is this shoot of Jesse? Like, where's Jesus? Where is God at work, we can remember, oh, yeah, he came into the midst of that decaying dying tree and brought new life and changed the story. And he can do that.
Jon Steele 18:04
Again, the thing that I love is that in each of these pieces, you have these upfront images, these character interactions that are happening, and then kind of down in the corner almost in this like, sort of secret side story, this thing that's down in the corner is actually the thing that's going to bring forth the change that you are longing for almost minimizing the central part of the story to make it this thing that kind of sneaks up on you, and that we get to see that happening throughout these pieces. It's so cool.
Bette Dickinson 18:31
I think that you hit it right on the head there, Jon, this is this undercurrent, this is this subversive thing that God is doing behind the scenes where you least expect it that then he surprises us in how he shows up in the story, just like a pregnancy, you know, mothers, other than really just taking care of their body. They don't do anything to make this happen. They don't force that it just happens, which is just such a miracle every time. But it's at the same time, a surrendered miracle, Mary deeply had to surrender to the fact that she didn't have control over how or why or when she probably wouldn't have chosen to go into labor while she was on her way to Bethlehem. You know, it's so it's just a good reminder to us. I think that God is at work, whether we see him or not, and is maybe at work and unseen ways that we will never understand until later.
Jon Steele 19:24
Now, there's a written devotional for each day. There's some challenging topics that come up things like hunger, solitude, labor, issues of justice, as we think about Advent as a season of active waiting as a season of longing for something new. How do topics like these engage us and prepare us for that?
Bette Dickinson 19:43
I mean, I think that probably there's a few different categories for how we can see it. One is what we learned from the Advent story is what God's Kingdom is like the kingdom that is just all people have equal access to God and his resources and the kingdom of God looks Like salvation not just for individual souls, but for every layer and fabric of society, for mental health, for our emotional health, for creation, redeem the entire thing. So I think that there's one level of trying to understand what is the kingdom that we're waiting for. But then some of the themes are around how then do we make room for it in our lives, and some of that involves Waiting, longing and ache, positioning ourselves to even be transformed in the process of waiting as we fix our eyes on the only one worth waiting for the only one who can make things right. And I think how we then receive that as we recognize the new thing that God is bringing, isn't going to just slip its way into our arms like little baby Jesus in the manger scene that it actually does involve some labor. So I think some of these themes are just trying to help walk us through that story and help us to find our place in it. You know, maybe we are like Zechariah and Elizabeth right now just feeling barren and waiting for a promise. Well, what does God do in us in the waiting to prepare us for that? Or maybe we're feeling like Mary, where we feel ill equipped for the work that's before us. So how do we give our limits back to God and allow him to use those to create something new? Maybe we feel like the shepherds like marginalized, like no one's listening to us, like we're on the outside looking in all the time. But what is the good news about the fact that God chooses to arrive to us and say, The Savior is born to you, the whole story helps position ourselves to receive that again, and make room for it.
Jon Steele 21:37
What do you hope will be the result for people as they engage with these 25 entries?
Bette Dickinson 21:42
I think especially with the painting, like I said, I just desire it to be a tool to help people slow down and be filled with awe and wonder and a deep personal connection with God, the most deeply personal and connected times that I have with God are often when I'm painting to then give this as a gift for people to experience him that way. That's my hope is that out of loving union with Him would create something that would invite others into loving union with Him as well. In terms of the content, one of the things that we need to remember and that I keep reminding myself from Mary's story is that God came to marry within her human limits. He didn't ask her to be superhuman, and to get a theological degree, she had very little to offer of God except her very body and soul, and that that's actually all God needs. Then when we come before God with our limits, and say, How will this be, that's when he does miraculous things in the midst of our limits, not in spite of them. That's one thing. But I also desire people to see uniquely how God communicates himself in women being centered into the story, and how women can be elevated as image bearers. There's something really beautiful about how they are pictured and honored as bearers of life, not just because of physical pregnancy. I know maybe there are some women listening to this who can't get pregnant or have had challenges with that. But I think that there's ways that God chooses to use women as mothers in all kinds of ways that we desperately need right now. And I desire for the Luke's among us to create that space to hear her voice. And one of the things I think I long for all the readers is recognizing that like Mary, God has a unique and specific call for all of us. There's a Magnificat that he has given all of us to sing. And when we give him with humility, our limits and our DNA and our gender and our ethnic identity, and all the things that make us who we are, and invite him to dwell with us that he can create something new through us, and that we can partner with him through those things to tell the story. So that's a lot of different things. But those are some of my hopes.
Jon Steele 23:55
As we think about that, do you have an invitation for alumni who are considering what might my engagement with the Advent season look like this time around.
Bette Dickinson 24:05
I just would encourage to take the same posture as the shepherds, the angel appears to them and says, the whole the Son of God is born to you and they go and see, they go and see for themselves this person of Jesus. And this word for see is actually a different word than the typical word for see which is Blippo. Blippo just means to see with the physical eyes, but a rat Oh is the word that's used there, which is to perceive to understand at a deeper level and in order to do that you have to go seek out this Jesus and you have to see him for yourself. My just longing for alumni is that they would go on a journey to seek him out and that they would intentionally set up their lives in a posture like Zechariah and Elizabeth and Mary and a shepherds so that they can be hold him and fresh, but really, if we just rushed through the season in a way that the world invites us to we will miss it. We will miss the thing that God wants to do in us.
Jon Steele 25:02
Bette, let's help make this as accessible as possible for alumni. What can people do to take next steps?
Bette Dickinson 25:08
I mean, definitely, I hope that the book will serve people. So again, making room in Advent, you can get it anywhere books are sold, and you can get your alumni discount, which I'm sure Jon will tell you about. But also, I've created an audio guided Visio Divina, which is a way of reflecting on the art at the start of the story. And I've created an audio guide for that that's about 11 minutes. If you text the word wonder to 55444 Follow the prompts, I'll actually send you the image of the painting wonder from the book and the audio guide. It's a frantic season, sometimes we just need to be led into the presence of God by another voice because we have a hard time slowing our minds down and so wanted to offer that as a free resource for you. And then if you sign up, you can continue to connect with my work from my newsletter there you could also follow me on instagram I'm at Bette underscored that consent and would love to see how God is at work through the story. And you.
Jon Steele 26:00
That's fantastic. Bette, you are a “Luke” shining a light on the stories of these people and making sure that they are seen and you are an “Elizabeth”, you are a “Mary” because you have your Magnificat that the Lord has given to you. This is only a part of it. There's even more than this, but you are a guiding voice. And I'm so thankful that we got to hear from you today. And I'm excited to use my copy to slow down and to engage purposefully with advent. Bette, thank you so much for joining us today. I've been on cloud nine having this conversation with you.
Bette Dickinson 26:35
Oh, same here, Jon. It was an honor. Really fun.
Podcast Outro – (Upbeat acoustic guitar music)
Hey, thanks so much for joining us today, Alumni. If there was anything that you learned, really enjoyed, or that encouraged you from today's episode, would you send us a DM or tag us in a story? We'd love to hear about it. You can find us @afterivpod on Instagram and Facebook. And if you haven't already, take just a second to unlock your phone and subscribe to the podcast. If your platform lets you, leave us a rating and a review. And if you like what we're doing here, share us with your InterVarsity or other post-graduation friends. Thanks again for listening. And I will see you in the after, Alumni.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai