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The Dallas Dirt podcast with Candy Evans takes you inside the real estate news stories you’ll find daily on CandysDirt.com and beyond, giving you more insight, juicier details, and the inside scoop from one of Dallas’ most well-connected real estate personalities.
Speaker: Welcome to Dallas Dirt.
I'm your host, April Towery.
I'm the city hall reporter for candysdirt.
com, and our guest today is Paul Ridley,
the District 14 Dallas City Councilman.
Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2: Thank you so
much, April, for having me.
Speaker: Sure.
We got lots to talk about today.
So, you guys just had a, I won't
call it a marathon council meeting.
You've had some marathons.
This one ended at a reasonable hour,
but on September 25th You adopted or
approved what's the proper terminology
Speaker 2: approved.
Speaker: Okay.
The forward Dallas comprehensive
land use plan, which you had a
big hand in crafting or amending
kind of up until the last minute.
And tell me.
How we got to September 25th?
Speaker 2: Well, it was a long
protracted process, April.
It started with the Comprehensive
Land Use Committee of the City Plan
Commission about two years ago.
And they had recommendations that
they made to the City Plan Commission.
The Plan Commission then took about six
months to hold public hearings to get
input from residents and stakeholders
around the city, and then they made
recommendations in turn to the City
Council in late July, and we took it
up at the committee level in August
with a very preliminary meeting of
the Economic Development Committee.
Just a few days after the plan commission
had approved their recommendations.
And then we had a more substantive
committee meeting later in September
of the economic development committee.
And it was there that we really, for
the first time at the council level,
Grappled with the language of the plan,
Speaker: why is that language
so important?
We've heard people say this
plan just sits on a shelf.
I know you don't like
that characterization.
But in any developer can point to what
they need to do and have this plan
supported So why does the language matter?
Speaker 2: Well, the whole plan matters
because it is a policy statement of where
the city would like to see the development
of Dallas go in the next 10 or 20 years.
It is very important to have that kind
of a policy statement in place because
the rezoning process needs guidance.
It shouldn't just be a process of looking
at each individual application in a silo.
Instead, it should be looked at as
whether or not It achieves the goals
that we set in the policy statement,
and that's the Forward Dallas Plan.
The language is critical for us to
provide guidance to the plan commission,
to developers, to residents, to
stakeholders of all types, as to
what the overall plan is for Dallas.
Speaker: What do you want the
next 10 to 20 years to look
like for the city of Dallas?
Speaker 2: I'd like the city to continue
its growth in terms of population,
economic development, and quality of life.
I'd like to see a more walkable city
that has see a more walkable city
that has sustainable development.
That provides for a wide range of housing
options for our residents and preserves
our existing single family neighborhoods.
Speaker: Now you've served on the City
Plan Commission and are intimately
familiar with how this zoning process
works and do you think there's any merit
to the statement that These zoning cases
are rubber stamped or if there is a
development friendly CPC or city council.
Speaker 2: I don't think there
is a rubber stamp at City Hall.
I think that the Planning Commission and
the Council look carefully at the various
rezoning applications, particularly
in their own districts, and try to
determine if they're for the benefit of
their district and the city at large.
Speaker: I watched those meetings and
if they're rubber stamping it, they sure
take a long time to pull out the rubber
stamp Good point for a lot of cases.
So, tell me about District 14 and what
kind of housing stock you represent.
Speaker 2: Well, District
14 is the smallest district
in the city geographically.
All of the districts through
redistricting have been reconfigured
to provide equivalent populations, so
that one council member represents.
Basically the same number of people
as all of the other council members.
That's the purpose of redistricting and
we just went through that last year.
My district is the oldest in the city.
It represents the core of Dallas.
That is most of downtown, uptown,
Oaklawn, and much of old East Dallas.
It is a district that has
a wide variety of housing.
It has, Many single family neighborhoods
in East Dallas and Uptown and Oak Lawn.
It's higher density housing
ranging from mixes of duplexes and
townhouses and more dense housing
sometimes on the same street.
In downtown, we have a large amount
of high rise commercial development.
With an increasing number of residences,
as many of the older office buildings
are converted into residential buildings.
Speaker: Do you need more
housing in your district?
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
We need more housing throughout the city.
We have a proportion of single
family to multi family in
the city of 40 to 60 percent.
And that is very low on the single
family side for a large city.
The other large cities, Houston,
Austin, et cetera, in Texas, all have
over 50 percent single family housing.
So we're starting with We
have a fairly diverse range of
housing types to begin with.
We have many wonderful single
family neighborhoods in my district.
But we also have higher density
housing in the closer in
areas of Uptown and Oak Lawn.
And of course, the highest
density housing is in downtown.
Speaker: How do you feel about apartments?
Speaker 2: Well, I think they're
a great housing option for people
who don't want the upkeep of single
family yards who don't have perhaps
the down payment to get into a house.
In many cases, they're great for empty
nesters who also don't want the upkeep of
a single family home and want to be around
all kinds of activities, whether it be the
arts or retail or close to entertainment
districts, there's a huge demand for that
kind of empty nester housing as well.
Speaker: Do you, where do you fall
on incentivizing developers to.
Build for sale homes or
build affordable housing
Speaker 2: Let me deal with the single
family housing first That is something
that I am in favor of in providing
incentives through down payment
assistance, for example to encourage
people to purchase a home that's one
of the changes that I inserted into
Forward Dallas was a paragraph that
encourages incentives for people
to be able to own their own home.
And that is something that we are already
doing on a limited scale currently.
At city hall for people who meet certain
income limitations who in the private
market are not able To buy their own home.
And so I think this is an important
initiative We have a tremendous need
for affordable housing in the city all
areas of the city and by affordable
housing I refer to workforce housing
that are for people that are working,
they're making steady paychecks, but
they just can't afford market rate rents.
And this would be particularly
people who are civil servants,
teachers, fire, police personnel.
People who are providing essential
services to our community but aren't
highly paid many times because they're
on government pay scales I firmly
believe that we need to make a place for
workforce housing in our communities.
Without forcing those people out to
the far reaches of the metroplex in
a search for more affordable housing.
We need to provide that in our
close in areas of the city.
And one of the things that the city
has done in furtherance of that
idea is to develop a broad range of
different types of incentives for the
construction of affordable housing.
One of them that I authored when I served
on the Plan Commission many years ago
The first one was the idea of zoning
incentives, so that when developers come
in and say, I want to change the zoning
to increase the height of my building
so I can build twice as many units.
Then the question that I raised was,
well, what are you going to give back
to the city in exchange for this?
Set aside a certain number of units that
are at affordable rental rates geared to
a percentage of median family income and
they must be the same quality units as
all of the market rate units and you must
maintain those for a period of 15 years
typically at affordable rental rates.
And that, in addition to other kinds
of financial incentives, have resulted
in the construction of over 5, 000
affordable units in the city of Dallas.
Speaker: That's awesome.
I didn't realize you helped to write that.
I did.
And they can also pay a fee in lieu.
Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yes, that was an additional
feature that the council added in 2022.
The idea was that When developers want
to build a high rise building with
expensive concrete frame construction,
it is very expensive for their bottom
lines and to be able to lure investors
who will make the building possible for
them to set aside very many affordable
units at the lower rental rates.
As a result we saw many comments from
developers saying, if you had a fund
that I could pay into you could then use
for building stick frame construction,
which is much less expensive in other
areas of the city where perhaps real
estate is not as expensive, then that
would be a way to get more affordable
units based upon contributions
to this affordable housing fund.
Speaker: Now back to Forward Dallas,
because we're bouncing all over the place
here, but at that September 25th meeting,
you had a new amendment that you wanted
to align the place type matrix with
the text and the narrative in the plan.
It seemed to me that there were
some minds made up, there was a
little bit of theater, perhaps,
going on and What, theater
Speaker 2: at City Council?
I
Speaker: mean, I don't know.
We've never heard of such a thing.
But what happened?
What were you attempting to do?
Did you anticipate that you were
going to get support for that,
or what was going on there?
Speaker 2: Well, as you've correctly
described it, I saw the need to align the
matrix, which is the graphic portrayal of
land uses in what are called place types.
Place types are large areas of the
city of different types of land uses.
For example, there's a,
Agricultural place type.
There's a city residential place type.
There's a community residential
place type, which was the source
of much of the controversy.
And this place type is described by what
land uses are permitted within it, and it
has both primary and secondary land uses.
And so the community place type has
primary land uses of single family,
detached, and single family attached
so that townhouses and duplexes
are permitted as primary uses.
Then there are also secondary
uses including more dense housing
commercial institutional, such as
churches, schools, et cetera would
all be permissible land uses within
the community residential place type.
And what I was trying to do was to align
the Matrix with regard to this, the
primary use of single family attached
to the narrative of the plan pursuant
to some amendments that I introduced,
as you mentioned, that called for.
There to be higher density in areas that
were not in single family neighborhoods.
And that targeted that kind of density
in other areas, such as commercial
corridors, transit stations vacant
land that hadn't been developed,
and transition zones between,
say, single family and commercial.
Where it was quite appropriate to have
that kind of higher density housing as
opposed to putting it in the middle of
single family neighborhoods, which I
was strongly opposed to and which the
Economic Development Committee supported
my amendments to accomplish that.
Speaker: Why not just
change the matrix then?
Why was that such a big deal?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question.
Okay.
I thought it was a pretty simple step
to take once the council was committed
to the narrative portion particularly
the amendments that I had introduced
to protect single family neighborhoods
in the economic development committee.
And there was widespread support for
that, but for some reason reflecting
that principle in the matrix.
Was a step too far for the council.
Speaker: So does the plan
now contradict itself?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say it was a
contradiction I would first of all,
point to the narrative language as
the most descriptive portions and
the most important provisions frankly
of Forward Dallas the matrix is just
a graphic representation of what's
contained in part very simplistic
way of what's in the narrative.
But I think the narrative should be
the real guidance for developers,
for rezoning applications and
for stakeholders going forward.
Speaker: So what happens now?
The plan is approved it seems
like most people are okay with it.
Is that the feedback you're getting?
Speaker 2: Well, I tried to strike a
compromise in my amendments between the
very vocal position amongst single family
residents to any intrusion into their
neighborhoods of multifamily housing.
And on the other end of the spectrum,
those people who wanted more housing
options and more housing, period.
I tried to accomplish safeguards for
single family neighborhoods, which I
think we were very successful in doing.
At the same time, we addressed our
housing needs by targeting those areas
of the city that are more appropriate
for higher density housing, such as
downtown is an excellent example that is
very tolerant of high density housing.
And as you get away from downtown, the
density tends to become lower and lower.
Areas of the city that are close
to transit, Highways schools,
workplaces, et cetera, are very well
suited for high density housing.
I recognize the need for that.
It just needed to be channeled
to appropriate locations.
Speaker: So the plan's been adopted.
I'm a developer.
I've got a project.
I'm coming in with my proposal
it will now be evaluated under
the new Forward Dallas 2.
0.
Speaker 2: That's correct.
Now the process of rezoning
property has not changed one iota.
It's still what it was before Forward
Dallas was even being discussed.
And that's a pretty rigorous process.
First, They have to complete the
application for review by city staff.
Staff makes recommendations
to the City Plan Commission.
The Plan Commission holds public hearings.
They send out ballots to
surrounding neighbors or property
owners to get their input.
They have a public hearing
where they take oral input from
residents who are concerned about
that particular zoning case.
They then make a recommendation
to the City Council.
We have another ballot that goes out
to surrounding property owners and
we also have a public hearing with an
opportunity for people to speak on it
and then we discuss it amongst ourselves
in some cases and make a final decision.
So that process isn't changed.
I want to stress that is just
the same as it has always been.
It's just that process will be
conducted with the guidance of
the new forward Dallas plan.
Speaker: Do you think there is
still any lingering confusion or
fear around what's going to happen?
Speaker 2: Yes, there probably is,
as there is any time that there
is a policy change at City Hall.
And people, I think got very involved,
many people in this process, and I
applaud them for doing that, because this
was an important issue for many people.
But there are others who are coming
to the issue late, and they've heard
that something has been adopted at City
Council, but they may not have gotten
into the weeds on it, and they I wouldn't
be at all surprised, want to be, you
know, More informed about that subject
Speaker: Yeah, the people
getting informed, getting
mobilized, getting educated.
Was that the most public engagement
you've seen on a single issue?
Speaker 2: Well, I think it
rivals short term rentals.
Okay.
Speaker: What is going on
with short term rentals?
Speaker 2: Well, that is
in the courts right now.
There is a lawsuit that was filed
by some short term rental owners
trying to overturn the city
council's ordinance that provided
restrictions on short term rentals.
My understanding is that is going to be
the subject this month of a hearing before
the Court of Appeals for oral argument.
Speaker: Do you still steadfastly remain
no, no STRs in residential neighborhoods?
Speaker 2: Well, I do.
I fully supported the ordinance
that we got passed in June of last
year, and I hope that ultimately
it will be cleared by the courts.
It was written based upon prior court
decisions of other cities ordinances,
and it was patterned in many respects
on what other cities had done that
had passed muster with the courts.
And so, I believe it is an ordinance
that should be upheld by the courts
and ultimately enforced by the city.
It is not a complete ban
on short term rentals.
It restricts them in single
family neighborhoods.
It puts limits on them in multifamily
zoning, but they are allowed up to a
certain level in multifamily and without
restriction in commercial zoning.
Speaker: What do you think is going to
be the legacy of this current council?
Speaker 2: Ooh, that's a deep question.
Speaker: You guys have done some
big stuff in the past year and a
Speaker 2: half.
We have made decisions on some
issues that will affect residents
of Dallas for many years to come.
Short term rentals is a good example.
Forward Dallas, I think.
Which provides many more
protections for single family.
Residential development than the
predecessor of the 2006 version
of the comprehensive plan.
And so I think that was
definitely a step forward.
We've also looked at issues such
as what to do about I 345 on the
eastern edge of downtown and what
its replacement should look like.
We have approved the construction
of a new convention center for
Dallas, which is a major investment.
And will, I think, transform the
southwest quadrant of downtown.
That is the hope of many people not
just because it will provide state
of the art meeting space and draw
in convention business, but also
because of its fringe benefits.
The development of land around
it so that we'll have more hotel
rooms more commercial development,
a more walkable district.
We want that to be an active district
that integrates with the rest of
downtown so that it opens the door for
convention visitors to Enjoy the Farmer's
Market, the Arts District, the Discovery
District, and all of the other wonderful
development that we have downtown.
Speaker: Alright, what's coming up?
You got a couple of elections coming up.
Any thoughts on that, on voter turnout?
Speaker 2: Well, of course, we always
have the highest voter turnout at
the November presidential elections
every four years, and we have both
federal offices and state offices.
The city municipal elections
are not until next May.
That will be the subject of a
traditional separate election along
with some school board offices.
We also have charter amendments.
That was one of the other big issues
that the City Council has worked on.
That's something that we only do every
10 years after redistricting occurs.
And we look at the charter, which is
kind of the constitution for the city.
It provides The terms for electing
council members it sets forth our
salaries it provides for various
departments and commissions and
generally how the city should be run.
That will be the subject of, I
believe, 18 different charter
amendments, which will be at the
end of the ballot, unfortunately,
but nonetheless, very important.
I recommend that everyone who
plans to vote does their homework
and examines just what those
different charter amendments will do
Speaker: You all don't tell people
how to vote or lobby for particular
amendments, but you can encourage them to.
Get educated.
Well,
Speaker 2: certainly that's critical
in our democratic process that people
be educated about how they vote so
that they know who they're voting for.
They identify those that align with their
political impulses and philosophies.
And on these kinds of charter
amendments, They represent the kind
of city that they want to live in.
Speaker: Well, I know that
elections are very important to you.
I actually, I met your wife over
a year ago at a League of Women
Voters voter registration event.
It was at the Mayor's Back to School Fair.
Oh, yes.
She's very active in that arena.
And what about may any
predictions or thoughts or
announcements you wish to make?
Speaker 2: Well, I am going
to be running for reelection.
Speaker: Okay.
Well, best of luck to you.
I think that you have made a lot
of people happy with the work that
you've done on forward Dallas.
And I do want to ask you, and I asked you
this before when we talked last week, but,
the politicization, of this land use plan
and the grandstanding, the posturing the
public speeches, you know, do you walk
into those meetings thinking Let's just
do the right thing, you know, let's just,
Speaker 2: well, that's the approach
I always take and sometimes that
requires seeing through the weeds
to get to the heart of the issue
and what really concerns our
residents and what makes good policy.
And so, I think it's important to
be engaged with your constituents to
determine what their real concerns are.
We did get many people who just
said vote no against Forward
Dallas with nothing further.
And that was I think a knee jerk reaction
to what they were hearing on social
media or for friends and neighbors.
And it's so important,
I think, to be informed.
About policy issues before you express
an opinion so that you know what the
pros and cons of different policy
alternatives are and you can weigh them.
And if at the end of that analysis you
say, I don't like this about forward
Dallas, fine, then we can address that.
But just to say no on a complicated
policy document like that
is not particularly helpful.
Speaker: All right.
Well, there you have it.
Thank you so much.
That's it for this episode of Dallas Dirt.
We will see you next time.