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HPE news. Tech insights. World-class innovations. We take you straight to the source — interviewing tech's foremost thought leaders and change-makers that are propelling businesses and industries forward.
Michael Bird (00:10):
Hello. And welcome back to Technology Now, a weekly show from Hewlett-Packard Enterprise, where we take what's happening the world and explore how it's changing the way organizations are using technology. We're your hosts, Michael Bird...
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (00:24):
And, Alicia Kempson-Taylor, sitting in again for the lovely, Aubrey.
Michael Bird (00:28):
And, Alicia, we are sat literally opposite each other. Where in the world are we?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (00:33):
Today we are in the London Customer Innovation Center. So very strange to be sat opposite each other today.
Michael Bird (00:39):
Yeah, it is. It's quite a novelty because I think usually I record episodes with Aubrey and Aubrey is the other side of the Atlantic. But we are in the Customer Innovation Center in London, full of lots of interesting stories from some of HP's customers. Maybe we'll do an episode on that another time, but for now, Alicia, what are we talking about in this week's episode?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (01:00):
Yes. So in this episode we are looking at technology which is just around the corner, which many of us haven't stopped to think about, Wi-Fi 7. So the new standard, it used to be ratified at the end of this year, although is already appearing in certain products, it promises a huge boost to speeds and latency of Wi-Fi giving wired like experience.
Michael Bird (01:22):
So why aren't we hearing more about it and what do you need to know? Well, if you are the kind of person who needs to know why, what's going on in the world matters to your organization, then this podcast is for you. And if you haven't yet done so, do make sure you subscribe on your podcast app of choice, so you don't miss out.
(01:42):
Now some of you listening might be thinking that Wi-Fi 6 only launched a couple of years ago and well, you'd be forgiven for doing so because chip shortages during Covid and the confusing rollout of enterprise level hardware when we were all working from home meant that the emergence of Wi-Fi 6 was, well, somewhat muted.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (02:02):
Wi-Fi 6 was launched in 2019 with rollout beginning gradually through 2020 and 2021. It promised 9.6 gigabits per second throughput, enough for near instantaneous connection of any number of devices. But demand for connecting that many pieces of equipment, think office spaces or sports venues, dried up due to the Covid pandemic significantly slowing the rollout, according to findings by ABI research, which we have linked to in the show notes. According to research by Trend Force, Wi-Fi 6 didn't overtake Wi-Fi 5 as the dominant standard until late 2023. We've linked to that one as well.
Michael Bird (02:40):
So just one year on we are being teased, Wi-Fi 7. So is it time to upgrade? Well again, I've been speaking with Darrel Rhodes, he's a Consulting Systems Engineer at HPE Aruba Networking. Darrel, welcome to the show.
Darrel Rhodes (02:58):
Thank you very much, Michael. It's a privilege to be here.
Michael Bird (03:00):
So Darrel, it feels like we've only had Wi-Fi 6 for two years or something. It feels like Wi-Fi 6 is still fairly new. So Wi-Fi 7. What's the need for it? What are the big differences?
Darrel Rhodes (03:12):
I know where you're coming from. Wi-Fi 6 had a difficult birth, shall we say. Wi-Fi 6 was of all about efficiency. Wi-Fi 7 is very much more emphasized on speed. In fact, as part of the standard, it's actually known as the extremely high throughput standard, whereas Wi-Fi 6 was extremely high efficiency.
Michael Bird (03:36):
Are we now talking the death of wide networking? Are we talking the death of ethernet at your desk?
Darrel Rhodes (03:42):
That's a very bold statement. I'm probably not going to go quite that far, but I certainly think that there's an element of that, where many companies are embracing remote working or hot desking, I know that term has been around for a long time, but it truly is. For example, I'm a remote worker and I don't have a desk in the HPE office, but when I go in, I need to find somewhere to sit and I don't dream of having a wired connection anymore.
(04:10):
And yet my device is capable of multi gigabit speeds through the Wi-Fi. And it may be that I'm a graphic designer sitting in a studio managing and handling huge file sizes. Before it was a no-brainer. You were absolutely going to have a wide connection into the back of your big workstation. Whereas now with this new Wi-Fi 7 standard, the throughput or the capabilities of it are so high, then a wireless connection now can be standard rather than huge cable drops.
Michael Bird (04:44):
I know you don't want to get too technical, but can you give me some speeds and feeds just so I can sort of picture the differences?
Darrel Rhodes (04:50):
Okay. Well, nothing like putting me on the spot there.
Michael Bird (04:54):
Sorry.
Darrel Rhodes (04:56):
It's okay. Wi-Fi 5 was the first into gigabit and beyond standard. And we do need to be mindful. So I'm a tech guy as you announced me, and so I tend to live more in the realms of reality rather than comparing data sheets and the hypotheticals that might be on there.
(05:16):
So Wi-Fi 5 is anywhere between one and two gigabits per second potential, Wi-Fi 6 somewhere around the five gigabits per second potential. And with Wi-Fi 7, you're testing me now, I believe it's somewhere around between seven and 10 gigabits per second potential. I do need to caveat out to say because it's Wi-Fi, and because it's a shared medium, as we call it, i.e. everyone sharing the air, rather than you having a unique cable between a data closet and your computer, the actual data rates that you receive depend very much on frequency, configuration, your device. And there are a lot of, it depends, in there.
Michael Bird (06:08):
But the technology is enabling faster speeds.
Darrel Rhodes (06:11):
Massively so, yeah.
Michael Bird (06:13):
Okay.
Darrel Rhodes (06:14):
So I know you said you didn't want to get into tech, but you're teasing me a bit there.
Michael Bird (06:17):
Please, please, please.
Darrel Rhodes (06:19):
The three headline benefits of Wi-Fi 7. So the first one is the modulation technique. This is how the data is kind of squished down, if you like, onto the radio waves and that's called the modulation technique. And we've gone from, it's known as QAM, Quadrature Amplitude Modulation. I'm sure that bit will get cut out, but the modulation technique has jumped from 256 QAM in Wi-Fi 5 to 1,024 QAM in Wi-Fi 6, to 4,096 QAM in Wi-Fi 7.
(06:56):
So we've got a fourfold increase in the ability to squish the data, it's a non-technical term, onto the radio signals that are sent and received from the client and the network. So that's the first one.
(07:11):
The second one is about channel widths. Again, in each Wi-Fi standard, they've got wider and wider and wider. And if you think, it's a clumsy analogy, but if you think many of the ways that data sent on Wi-Fi are like vehicles on a motorway on a freeway and with Wi-Fi 5, you could say we had up to four lanes of traffic, with Wi-Fi 6 up to eight lanes of traffic, and with Wi-Fi 7 up to 16 lanes of traffic. That's what we're capable of doing.
(07:45):
Now, as I said a moment ago, not all deployments utilize all of this massive capability, but as we are sort of hypothetically talking about what the standard can do for us, then those examples stand.
(07:59):
Then the third huge benefit, and it's been realized in a kind of side technology that some of our guests listening today may not have heard of, and that is Wi-Fi 6E. So we had the Wi-Fi 6 standard, which is based on something called 802.11ax.
(08:19):
Now within that 802.11ax standard, that covers wireless usage in three frequencies, 2.4 gigahertz, 5 gigahertz, and for the first time, six gigahertz. But because six gigahertz wasn't quite ready in 2020 with all the regulatory bodies around the world, like the FCC for the US, Ofcom for the UK, vendors weren't releasing 6 gigahertz capable equipment at that time.
(08:48):
And then as the standard has matured, the Wi-Fi Alliance, who are the people who come out with the Wi-Fi names like 5, 6, 7 so on, they coined the new phrase, Wi-Fi 6E. And that's for Wi-Fi 6 capable equipment that can utilize the 6 gigahertz frequency. But Wi-Fi 7 encompasses all of those three frequencies without the E moniker on the end. That's the magic key to unlocking lots more reliability and speed particularly.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (09:22):
Thanks, Michael. That's a fascinating chat with Darrel so far and we'll be back with more from the interview in a moment, so don't go anywhere.
Michael Bird (09:31):
Okay, well now it is time for, Today I Learnt, the part of the show where we take a look at something happening in the world that we think you should know about. And, Alicia, I think you have something this week. What do you have?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (09:43):
Okay. Yes, thanks, Michael. I'm actually taking us to the UK this week.
Michael Bird (09:47):
Slightly unexpected UK based episode, isn't it?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (09:50):
Yes, it is. The Advanced Research and Invention Agency, or ARIA for short, is the British equivalent of DARPA in the US. It's just published a series of reports into everything from fully synthetic plant life to advanced climate forecasting and one called Managing Our Climate and Weather through Responsible Engineering, which sounds pretty intriguing, right?
Michael Bird (10:10):
Yeah.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (10:10):
It's essentially a thesis on how we can engineer climate cooling with the aim of "Answering fundamental questions on the practicality, measurability and controllability of technologies that one day might be used to actively cool the earth." Options the UK body is exploring include stratospheric aerosol injection, ironically, that is pumping chemicals into the upper atmosphere. And other options explored are marine cloud brightening and increasing the reflectivity of Earth's surface by regrowing ice sheets.
Michael Bird (10:43):
Wow.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (10:43):
They even explore building space-based reflectors to shade the earth from the proportion of incoming sunlight. I'm fairly sure there was an episode of a well-known cartoon not that long ago about this. There's no concrete proposals outlined in the paper just yet, but it's safe to say that if British scientists get their way, the rest of the world will be a grayer, cloudier, darker place. So basically just the UK then, yeah?
Michael Bird (11:04):
Yeah, that sounds about right. That sounds about right. Well, thank you for that, Alicia. What an appropriate story for a rather cold, wet September morning here in the UK. That's what the script says. It's actually quite sunny. Right. Anyway, now it is time to return to our guest, Darrel Rhodes to talk about the exciting opportunities of Wi-Fi 7.
(11:28):
Well, let's dive into 6 gigahertz because I'm not going to profess to know much about frequency ranges, but can I make some assumptions here, or maybe you can explain, because from what I understand, different frequencies provide different levels of either speed or range. So what does 6 gigahertz in particular, what does that frequency range give above and beyond 2.4 and 5?
Darrel Rhodes (11:53):
Yeah, you're absolutely right. What 6 gigahertz gives us is a huge chunk of interference free frequency. 2.4 gigahertz, what we can use and what we've always used since wireless networking was first deployed back in the early 1990s is actually a really tiny part of the radio spectrum.
(12:15):
Remote control cars and drones use it, baby monitors, microwave ovens. And in 2.4, we only have three of those channels that are non-overlapping. There's none of those other issues with lots of existing networks or devices and gadgets at home using 6 gigahertz, it's completely clean. And we've got even more spectrum available to us than we do with 2.4 and 5 gigahertz put together.
Michael Bird (12:42):
That is fascinating. Is there anything unique to the 6 gigahertz band? The reason why I say this is because we've been having conversations with people, particularly around 5G, and talking about the 5G is almost in two components. You get super fast, but really rubbish range or you get much better range, but slower speeds. Is there anything unique about the 6 gigahertz band that means that, I don't know, better range in buildings with lots of concrete walls? Or is it really similar to the 5 gigahertz range?
Darrel Rhodes (13:15):
I love the question. There are two elements there that you actually brought up that I'd like to talk about. So you mentioned 5G and the two different kinds of radios that it sits on. And Wi-Fi is very much the same. So the new features that I talked about, there's a bunch of other more difficult to explain technologies as well that have some really cool names, like multi-link operation and channel puncturing within the Wi-Fi 7 standard. And they are frequency agnostic. And so with the modulation as well, it's frequency agnostic.
(13:52):
So you will get that ultra-high or the potential for that ultra-high modulation, regardless of the frequency that you're on. And it's really great that you bought up the distinction between the benefits of 6 gigahertz, which is very much worth talking about, but that Wi-Fi 7 has also its own benefits regardless of that frequency.
(14:13):
And then in addition to that, I also want to talk about, as you say, different frequencies behave in different ways. It's a really easy equation is that the higher the frequency, the more that frequency or those radio signals that are on that frequency get attenuated by stuff. You, me, our walls in our office, the floors in our homes, and that attenuation is more acute the higher the frequency of the radio signals.
(14:42):
And so effectively it requires more radio power for those signals to go as far as what we used to previously. So 2.4 gigahertz is lower, it has more penetration through stuff, whereas 6 gigahertz is higher and that will get more easily attenuated. But if I can kind of put my RF nerd hat on for a second and say that actually in today's modern networks, that's what we're actually looking for. As more and more devices are migrating to using Wi-Fi, and as we said, preferring Wi-Fi connections to wired connections for a multitude of reasons, we've changed the way that we design Wi-Fi networks now from big cells with lots of clients on one big box normally to more cost-effective access points.
(15:34):
But we deploy them in such a way as that we want to connect fewer devices but that are closer to each of the access points. And probably the perfect example of this is in hotels. I designed back in the day, lots of hotel networks where the guy said to me, "The only place we can get cables to is down the corridors." So you put Wi-Fi access points all the way down the corridors, and you hoped that the signals penetrated through the fire doors and the walls and the bathrooms, and that you got some half decent signal inside the rooms.
(16:06):
And so what we were looking for in those days was signal propagation as far as we could get it. The reality was is that all those access points could see each other and were effectively fighting with each other because ultimately some of them had to be on the same channels using the same frequency and that brings problems to Wi-Fi.
(16:25):
What we do now in modern hospitality designs is we still have those corridor APs, but there's many less of them. They're spaced much further apart. And then we put a smaller access point into each and every room. And this gives a much better service, much better signals to the devices that are in that room. And it also means that when we're using these higher frequencies, which we're relying on more and more, the stuff, the walls, the bathrooms, the mirrors, the TVs, everything that's in the room that's preventing the signals from propagating outside of the room, then that's what we want because we don't want interference in the neighboring rooms or in the corridors.
Michael Bird (17:06):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So final question, Darrel, which we ask all of our guests, why should our audience be paying attention to the rollout of Wi-Fi 7, why should they care?
Darrel Rhodes (17:20):
Great question. Well, do I need to upgrade? That's the question. And coupled with, is Wi-Fi 7 going to bring huge benefits to how I use Wi-Fi? There are answers where absolutely, yes, you need to upgrade. And that would be maybe you have Legacy Wi-Fi because of the challenges around 2020 and Covid and all of that difficulty, maybe you didn't upgrade and you're still running Wi-Fi 5 grade equipment and you've been considering an upgrade.
(17:52):
Well, if you do upgrade to Wi-Fi 7, there's no doubt about it, you'll see huge benefits. And you don't just need to have Wi-Fi 7 capable devices to realize those benefits. Because all Wi-Fi is backward compatible it brings latest tech that you don't see. So for example, the microchips, the ram, the processors, the ethernet connections, everything is kind of state of the art. So you'll see immediate benefits then deploying a box you purchased in 2024, 2025, compared to one that you did in 2015.
(18:27):
But also as the generation of your client devices becomes more modern, what happens is they are more efficient, they are faster. And without, again, getting too technical is Wi-Fi restrictions in the past have always been about how much time each device takes on the network to get or send its data. And with these new devices, they're so fast. And with these new improvements in the Wi-Fi technology, it means they can jump onto the network, download what they need to, upload what they need to, so very quickly that they're leaving lots of available time or capacity for the older devices to jump on and do their job more slowly. It is the latest and greatest of this wonderful technology Wi-Fi that has revolutionized all of our lives, I think, being able to be connected on the go.
Michael Bird (19:26):
Awesome. Darrel, thank you so much. Really appreciate having you on the show. Thank you so much for your time.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (19:31):
And you can find out more of the topics discussed today in the episode show notes.
Michael Bird (19:38):
Right. Well, we are getting towards the end of the show, which means it is time for, This week in history. A look at monumental events in the world of business and technology, which has changed our lives. So Alicia, what was last week's clue? Can you just remind me?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (19:53):
Absolutely. The clue last week was, it's 1960 and this ship boldly went into the Atomic Age. Any ideas?
Michael Bird (20:01):
I thought it was about a space probe that was nuclear-powered, but I now think I'm wrong. What was the answer?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (20:12):
Well, we will find out.
Michael Bird (20:13):
What was the answer?
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (20:14):
It was of course the launching of the USS Enterprise.
Michael Bird (20:19):
I was wrong, I was wrong.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (20:20):
You were wrong. The world's first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier. Construction of the enterprise began in 1958 and being the first of her kind, she did have some quirks. She was, and still is the longest naval ship ever to be built at 342 meters or 1,123 feet long.
Michael Bird (20:39):
Goodness.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (20:40):
She is also the only ship to have more than two nuclear reactors, because why have two when you can have eight, obviously. So all of this did come at a cost, and Enterprise was the only one of our kind ever built out of a planned six. The other ships being judged far, far too expensive. What a ship.
Michael Bird (20:58):
Wow. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks, Alicia. Now the clue for next week is, its 1869 and this Austrian invention was a real red letter day.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (21:12):
Tell me, tell me what it is, Michael?
Michael Bird (21:15):
I don't know. I have no idea. Anyway, well that brings us to the end of Technology Now for this week. Thank you so much to our guest, Darrel Rhodes, Consulting Systems Engineer at HPE Aruba Networking. And to you, thank you so much for joining us.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (21:29):
This episode of Technology Now was hosted by, Michael Bird, and myself, Alicia Kempson-Taylor. It was produced by Sam Datta-Pullin, with production support from Harry Morton, Zoe Anderson, Aubrey Lovell, Alison Paisley, Alyssa Mitri, and Kamila Patel. Our social editorial team is Rebecca Wissinger, Judy-Ann Goldman, Katie Guarino. And our social media designers are Alejandra Garcia, Carlos Alberto Suarez, and Amber Maldonado.
Michael Bird (21:56):
Technology Now is a Lowest Street production for Hewlett-Packard Enterprise. And we'll see you at the same time, the same place, next week. Cheers.
Alicia Kempson-Taylor (22:03):
Bye.