Rev. Dr. Jessica Rochester - The Dark Side of Beauty

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Rev. Dr. Jessica Rochester is a bridge.

Madrinha, President, Torchbearer.

Founder of Céu do Montréal, the Santo Daime Church she established in 1997—

restoring sacred memory to the North.

A transpersonal counselor shaped by Assagioli and Grof,

she guides seekers through the fire of self-confrontation.

From 2000 to 2017 she secured a Section 56 Exemption,

protecting the Santo Daime sacrament from the state.

An ordained Interfaith Minister, Doctor of Divinity,

and author of the two-volume Ayahuasca Awakening—

she has spent more than forty years leading workshops, counseling,

and teaching the radical act of spiritual adulthood.

https://www.revdrjessicarochester.com/

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the True Life Podcast. I hope everybody's having a beautiful day. Hope the sun is shining. Hope the birds are singing and the wind is at your back. I have with me today the one and only Reverend Dr. Jessica Rochester. Madrina President Torchbearer, founder of the Sioux de Montreal, the Santo Daime church she established in nineteen ninety seven, restoring sacred memory to the north. A transpersonal counselor shaped by Asagioli and Groff, she guides seekers through the fire of self-confrontation. From two thousand to twenty seventeen, she secured a Section fifty six exemption protecting. Oh, we lost you. Hi, everybody. If I'm still on, we lost George for some reason. Oh, did I lose her right there? Yeah, you just disappeared. Then I began to think, okay, I guess, am I able to do this show alone without you? It looks like it's still live. And you're still frozen. I'm back. okay no you're not I'm sorry about that I had a little technical issue right there okay there we go you're still freezing I am still stuck okay I'm back now I think am I back now well I hope so we're gonna we're gonna look I didn't know if I was still alive so I was kind of muttering away about wondering if I could do the show by myself so apologies not sure what was happening here but trusting that it would all work out for the higher good indeed indeed welcome dr jessica we're here to talk about beauty today in the darker side of beauty that's right and you're frozen again so unbelievable what is happening okay but at least we have sound so okay I'm gonna if I'm still if we're still live I'm gonna start talking about beauty and so yes when we talk about beauty And what I thought might be helpful is if, you know, me start with a bit of a definition. What do we understand about beauty? Kind of give it kind of a, you know, an introduction as these things. And then once we've wandered a little bit onto the dark side of beauty, bring it back down to back around to transcendence and beauty. Hopefully that will be of interest. But have I seen you frozen again? Are you still there? No, I'm still here. I don't know why it's freezing up on me. I don't know what's going on. As long as we're still on audio, we're good. Okay. Okay. So we're talking about beauty. And if we were to try and do a definition of beauty, what would we come up with? Hmm. Yeah. Because beauty is subjective. Yep. It is. you know, it can be cultural, it can be social, it can be national, let's say. What is found beautiful in Japan may not be found so beautiful in Canada. Okay? So, beauty throughout the history of the human species, I think there's been a quest for beauty, for the meaning of beauty. You'll find it in art, you will find it in poetry, you will find it in opera, in music, in plays, this quest, this longing for beauty, whether to obtain it for ourselves or to possess it. Would you agree with that? Yeah, without a doubt. Let's talk about this longing to either have it for ourselves or to own it, possess it. Now we've agreed that beauty is very individual and very subjective and can have social, cultural, religious influences, you know, through the entire global experience of human seeking for this. And so it would be basically impossible to, I mean, you could do theses and dissertations and write books on this and still not exhaust the subject of what people find beautiful. Some examples. Now, I meant to look it up, and then I got busy and didn't, but it's in the Old Testament, and I'm quite sure it's in Kings, whether it's in first or second, I'm not quite sure. I don't quite remember. It's been many years since I was in seminary and studying all of these things. However, there's one quote that says, the king's daughter is all beautiful within. good yeah beautiful so the the author's ability to see the inner beauty and so we can now broaden our little conversations that there's inner beauty and then there's outer beauty what we see in art what we see in fashion what we see in you know some people might think a certain car is beautiful somebody else may not even look at it you know Somebody else might think a piece of music inspires a sense of beauty. And somebody else goes, ah, I threw it all. Right? Yeah. I think, you know, certain areas in opera, you can't beat them. You know, Pavarotti singing Nessim Dorma, does it get better than that? Whereas my, you know, burgeoning teenagers will go, Grandma! So, It's so subjective. It's so individual. And it is also connected to so many emotions. Beauty can inspire us. We go and we see a sunset or a sunrise or look into the Grand Canyon or walk beside a river, walk beside the ocean, right? And the beauty of nature, that moment of seeing a butterfly, a bird in flight, Something just captures something deep within us. It could take us to sadness. It could take us to awe. It could take us to happiness and joy. It can take us to peace. And so beauty in the eye of the beholder, and again, I'm speaking about nature now, finding beauty in nature, being able and being willing to see beauty in the moment. How many of us are so busy rushing around, jumping in and out of our cars, wearing concrete all of the time? Do we stop and do we look at the sky? Do we listen to the birds? Do we stop beside someone's garden and look at their flowers, especially in early spring being in Canada, okay? Those first flowers that start pushing up through the earth, the early crocus, you know? Static to see them, welcome them. Hello, I'm so glad you came back this year. And the beautiful cilia, those blue-purple flowers that are like a carpet. In England, there's bluebells. Here we have cilia. And there's beauty, and it's everywhere, and it's around us. And sometimes if you're reading biographies or historical accounts of people who, even in the most difficult of moments, in their life, facing great challenges, write or describe moments where even in the moment of difficulty or great challenge, something connects them to something of great beauty. And again, right now I'm just talking about the beauty that exists around us in nature, that is everywhere, free for everyone. The stars in the sky at night are there for everyone. The sun shines on everyone. The trees put out their leaves and their blossoms and the flowers bloom for everyone. It's not they only do that for specific people. They certainly do it at specific times, but it's here for everyone in all of its enormous variety. For those of you who are interested in particle physics, my favorite guy is the University of Manchester, Dr. Brian Cox, who I think is head and shoulders above every other physicist on the planet. I'll tell you why. It's because he sees the beauty. He can see the beauty in Einstein's equations. He will stand back and he'll sketch them out on a board and he'll say, look at the beauty of that equation. He will go out under the stars and say, look at the beauty of the cosmos. He sees the mystery, which not all physicists do. Some are very practical and pragmatic and like Carl Sagan, for example, wasn't talking much about the beauty of anything, right? And so seeing the mystery and the beauty that is there for all of us. And once we start connecting with that kind of beauty that is in nature, and when we see that something, mathematics can be beautiful, would you agree? Yeah, without a doubt, it's elegant. And there's a certain sense of getting to see yourself in the whole that speaks to me of beauty. Exactly. And so whether it's, mathematics or chemistry or any of the sciences those who have their their heart and mind open are going to see the powerful beauty of the connectedness of all of this and so that's where science and spirituality join and the mystery and the oneness and the beauty and you know and and again it's also connected and it's all in the eye of the holder our willingness to see beauty in it, our openness to see beauty in it. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me. Anything you wanted to jump in and add or ask? Well, When I think of beauty, I think of a sort of evolved awareness because it is everywhere, but it takes sort of, for me, it's taken a little bit of the tragedy. And it's so interesting to me that you can't see, at least for me, I can't see the beauty without being aware of everything around it. And sometimes like you had mentioned in those tragedies, you really get the opportunity to see the brightness of beauty. And it's sometimes it's the brightest place that it possibly is. Yes. And that's the mystery of it all. How can these things coexist? And that's really the zen of it. How can these things coexist, this wonderful, powerful majesty of creation and beauty and nature and the complexity of life, and at the same time, all of the difficulties and darkness and everything that exists along with it? And how do we make space for that? And it's not about making difficulties okay. It's just about they're going to happen anyway, all right? It's not about making these things okay. It's not about pretending they're all right. It's not about denying that things can be difficult, that there is tragedy, there is loss, there's difficulty, there's a very dark side to beauty. But these things exist, and how do we make space for that? How do we hold? And are we an agent for change in it? So that kind of becomes the question for the dark side of beauty. Can we be an agent for change? And what is the dark side of beauty? You want to jump in or are you going to let me go? You know, when I think about the dark side of beauty, I'm reminded of... I think a quote I once heard, forgive me, because I don't remember the name of the person that cited it, but it was something along the lines of, the look of agony and the look of ecstasy are almost exactly the same. And it's really interesting to think about that concept, about the faces we make or the feelings we get. But the look of agony and the look of ecstasy are almost the same on our face. I kind of see that connection there. That's the connection of the dark and the light and how similar they really are to me. Yeah, it's like love and hate. Yeah. The more deeply you love... more potential risk for human experience anyway. And that in itself is a whole mystery. So about how, how, how those two sides of the same coin in almost every situation is the dark and the light is there. And you know, our, our individual choices, how to be with that and what's in our power. And what do we just simply send light to and walk past? And what do we become the agent for change? And so, um, you know, having said all of that, and I have no idea who said that quote, um, that, um, you know, it's pretty accurate. Um, life is life is life, you know, we, you know, I'll use the example of giving birth. I've had two children. I gave birth and, um, It was agony and ecstasy and bringing a child into the world. And it's agony because it is, and any woman who tells you must have had very good medication, that's all I can say, or be one of those blessed women whose nerve endings are wired differently from most of the rest of us. And ecstasy of the experience of being caught up in this force of creation and transformation And many things are like that, you know? So, okay. Wandering into the dark side of beauty. We've mentioned that, you know, through the history of the human experience, what has been found beautiful has been different. There has been eras where, for example, women in China went through foot bindings. And the more a woman's foot was bound, the more beautiful she was. There's these poor women tottering around on feet you can't walk on. And this was considered beautiful because of the meaning that was attached to it. I am so wealthy that my wife does not need to work. She does not need to. You know, there was these also, I believe in China, there was this period where they had very, very long nails where they basically could do anything. That's sort of kind of part of fashion today with all the fake names. We'll get into that in a minute, okay? And again, the messaging was, this is beautiful because of its meaning. You know, I'm very fat. It means I have, this is also part of historical, cultural things. The more fat you were, it meant you had luxury. You had food. You were never hungry. You didn't have to work and and do things to enjoy life. And so these things had a meaning to them. It meant something that was considered power, because beauty and power, when we take that step, are connected. We've talked about the beauty of nature and our soul connecting to beauty. That's one thing. Now we're talking about kind of the dark side of beauty, where beauty and power make friends. And where power is obtained through what is decreed as being beautiful or the possession of what is considered to be beautiful. So, now, interestingly enough, it is often, for whatever reason, if you have some theories, I'm available to hear them, But it is women who fall into that trap. Now, not alone. There's a lot of concepts around male beauty. There are, okay? But more often than not, it is women who are distorted by fashion and kind of meaningful things that display. So it's the women who have to change their, you know, how they are, their bodies, what their bodies look like, how they present themselves with their clothing and with everything else that becomes the external presentation. Waiting for some comments because your video's frozen again for the last while. Yeah, it comes in and out, so. Yeah. Maybe if I switch it over here to this side, that would be better. I have no idea, but we've still got audio. Okay. All right. Let me pull this one down over here. Are we good? No audio. Oh, dear. So many technical issues today. Is the sun having a solar flare? Are there electrical interferences? How about now? Is it coming through now? Maybe the cosmos doesn't like this topic. Yeah. I think there might be something to that there. I'm going to switch this one off. I don't know why we're having so many problems with that. Okay. You're now video and audio. So that's great. So I was just saying, talking about how certainly there's concepts of what beauty should be for men, but that it's more so for women. And it's almost always the external presentation. It's not the daughter is all beautiful within. Okay. It is the materialistic, the external presentation of how a, how a woman and or a man presents on the outside. Not what their soul is doing, not what their mind is doing, not what the creative force within them so much is, but it is the external presentation. It is the image. It is the impression of something that appeals to the larger audience who is looking for something or and this is such an important piece is told that they need this. Yeah. Okay. I remember the time these days, women can, you know, unless you belong to a certain religious tradition or cult slash sect, right. Women can pretty much wear what they want. I mean, yes. In the business world, it, and I'm a firm believer in it, that business clothing is appropriate. Okay. Don't want to walk in the bank and see a mini skirt and cleavage. I don't. Work on your night out with your friends. Okay. Business. And it doesn't matter. Women can wear trousers in my world. Absolutely. You know, you can wear men can wear a kilt on her dress. I don't really mind at all. You know, I got Scottish blood and the kilts are normal from where I come from. And what's a big fuss over a man wearing a skirt. Okay. It's like, seriously, I don't quite get it, but anyway, we're good. Same fuss I made over women wearing trousers, I guess. It's just come around and got a new audience. So it's the external presentation. And I remember a time when fashion was so tight for women. I'm going back to, let's see, the fifties. Okay. When I was growing up and being exposed to fashion and seeing fashion, that hemlines were decreed by the fashion czars. Okay. your ham had to be a certain length below your knee and that was it. Okay. Your styling had to be a certain way. And that was it. That was the fashion. You couldn't go in the store and buy anything else, you know, and then through time and demand and request and kind of cultural liberating of, of women, you know, we burnt our bras, you know, Oral contraceptives for women came in, and those are the big changes. Empower the women. Empower the women, and the most positive change is possible. Give women the freedom to choose if they want to work. Give them the freedom to choose if they want to have children. Give them the freedom to choose what fashion they want to wear. So when they go out of the house, they don't have to have this external presentation to the world to be received by the world. And so what beauty was in the nineteen forties, the Jane Mansfield and the Elizabeth Taylor's very full bodied and certain kind of makeup and hairstyle and clothing and everything. Right. That was the ideal beauty. And how quickly did that change? And then we can bring it all the way up to how not so long ago, when there was something so dangerous for women, it was called heroin shake, where women in the models were so young and so amnesia, how many young women have died from eating disorders in the modeling world. Never mind in everyday life, women trying to contort their external experience and impression to others, how they show up. into something that they believe is needed for them to be accepted. No different from six inch nails and bound feet. There's not a lot of difference in my world when you're told that your face has to look a certain way and your body has to look a certain way. And so, you know, here's where beauty and power gets all mixed up together because we see that it's not just religion saying you need to wear these clothes and eat this food. It's culture and society saying you need to look like this and wear these things. We can all agree that clothing and how we carry ourselves gives a message, right? This is forever. We're giving a message. So whether you're Taylor Swift on stage, singing a song, okay? And she's got a certain outfit on. Okay, the outfit is the message with the music. It's all one message. But what is that message? Okay? And then you have a learned professor on a podium doing a TED Talk, okay? And what's she wearing and what is her message through what the clothing that she is wearing and how she presents herself. And so we see that clothing and our style and our way of being and how we present ourselves can transform more into a reflection of what's going on inside more than what is demanded on the outside. You want to add something in on that? Yeah. I feel like beauty changes with the idea of the society. And I feel like on some level there should be a standard of beauty. And I agree that everyone has their own personal beauty. But I think on some level we should have, like, standards of beauty. Like you said, Mozart is beautiful. But, you know, do your kids like Mozart? I mean, my, you know, we're back to we can't impose. We can't impose that. We can't. Okay. Because to impose it means taking away the individual experience of it. So we can't say this is beautiful or not. This is not beautiful. What we can do is we can say what's right and what's wrong. And fourteen year old models who were so emaciated that they died. Okay. Is wrong. Yes, I agree. It's just wrong. Okay. And so in the modeling industry in this last twenty years, okay, there's been regulations have come in whereby the big, you know, the Vogue and all those big, you know, they themselves have had the pressure that they've had to accommodate the philosophy that they can't just do what they want and say this is beautiful. Right. Us during emaciated fourteen-year-olds, on their covers who look like they didn't have a meal in, who look like they just escaped Gaza, okay? Yeah. This is not beautiful. And who in their right mind ever thought it was? This is tragic. It's not beautiful. It's tragic and it's wrong. And that's where we can make the distinction is we can be an agent for change in what is beautiful for the dark side of beauty by just saying it's wrong. I think that speaks to the relationship with power. Because when I look back and I read some of the reasons why those women were so emaciated, it was because the clothing companies wanted a model that looked like a clothes hanger so that their clothes could look beautiful on these people. And that's that marriage of power and commerce dictating what's beautiful. where each individual is beautiful, but the same way that I can't be president, some people are born more beautiful than other people. And we look up to that beauty. Like it's the, it's very subjective. It's very, very subjective, you know, as to there's, let's say there's movie stars that some people find are beautiful. I don't particularly because I can see what is or isn't shining through them. Right. Okay. And those of us who don't, if we're really captured by the totally photoshopped images of people, you know, if you're ever interested, Google, what does choose your favorite, you know, your favorite actor or actress, you know, they're often captured going to the grocery store with no makeup on, not photoshopped, just a real person, you know, and there'll be a comment like, You know, Brad Pitt does his own grocery shopping or, you know what I'm saying? Jennifer Aniston also takes her dog to the groomers. And so you look and you see they're just real people. And so this is a cultural thing that we keep, that we are allowing and accepting the imposition of what is beautiful And what is, I think, and I could be completely wrong, I'm open to be corrected on it, but I think it is industry driven. If we are shown that fake nails with stars and spangles on them are magnificent, and if all these influences, influences, is that what they're called, influences, on TikTok and on Instagram and all these things, and they're flashing off all of these products you need this for beautiful skin and you need this for your nails and you need that for your hair and, and, you know, buy these products and everything. And they're getting a lot of money from these, from industry. It's no difference from selling toothpaste on your commercial when you're watching the hockey game, right? Yep. There's no difference. They're selling products. Now, unfortunately the myth of beauty, because we're back to our original, section one of this conversation the myth of beauty okay the seeking for beauty the longing for it the search for it the soul's longing for beauty okay gets confused with materialism that if I wear that makeup and if I go to you know they have eight-year-olds in sephora demanding products I'm stunned you know yeah me too my my granddaughters know more about I've got a little moisturizer on, that's it. A lipstick, always with a lipstick, that's my thing. But the products, it's an industry that is just pushing itself to younger and younger consumers. How is this different from what the tobacco company did and is still doing? All of this vaping that has flavors and fun cartoon-style creatures on their covers, this is all appealing to the youngest possible person to buy. So what we have is industry pushing the idea of beauty. And this commercialization of beauty is dangerous for some people. Not everyone. Sensible people aren't just going to do what they're told they have to be wearing or putting on their nails or their face because it doesn't suit me, don't like it, whatever. My comment to the young people that I know is, Do you know there's an app now? My daughter bought it and gave it to my grandkids on their phone where it scans the product and it can tell you the harmful chemicals in it. Don't ask me. I can find out the name of it. But there is an app you can have on your phone that will scan a product and it will tell you what's in it that may not even be listed as to what is harmful for you. And so that's being an agent for change. It's here. I'm giving you something you can educate yourself with. Are you sure you want to buy that product? Now you see the three ingredients that cause cancer? Yeah. Now you see that there's PPAPs and microplastics in it. Are you sure you want to put that product? Are you sure you want to put it on your body? And so that education, education, education is the agent for change. And do you agree? Yes. Do you want to say something? Okay. It's so interesting you bring that up because my wife and I, she recently had cancer, stage three breast cancer. And we were just going through our life and the things we were using and we've become really conscious of it. And it brought us to the idea of polyester in clothing. And all these chemicals that are in clothing, it's in everything. And it's like, we should be buying a hundred percent cotton. Like just to think that you're wearing something that's a carcinogen and you're wearing it daily and people wear, you know, the underclothes too. Like how detrimental is that to your health? I'm like, we don't, we don't know because of the standard of beauty and fast fashion and all these things that are poisoning us all day long. Well, there's, there is a increase in the last, let's say half years. Let's take it back. in nineteen twenty five after the first world war gearing more because between the first second world war is when a lot of products were being developed mainly for weaponry okay that found their way into other uses that's the reality okay they weren't looking for how to improve dog food between the first and the second world war I mean some people might have all right but made a big chunk of science and money and everything was going into weaponry and, and look at all the wonderful things that happened. We got to the moon and you know, wonderful things happen, but then there's the dark side as are we aware? So a lot of things got pushed through and the same thing happened with industry, the food and beverage industry in which products were pushed through and put on the market faster. then like in Canada, we have what's called Health Canada, which is the overseen, but you have, what is it, the Food and Drug, FDA, Food and Drug Association. Okay, so they're kind of equivalents. They're supposed to be monitoring what's in your food, what's in the water, what's healthy, what's not healthy, fighting industry or stopping industry that is putting products that are not proven to be supporting health. But there's so much corruption in there, okay? There's just a lot of stuff and stuff happens and products get onto the market. And before they're even, there's so many new chemicals coming that what can't be tested is the combination of chemicals. So you're putting that nail polish that has PFAPs in it on your skin. At the same time, you're wearing polyester clothing or even beyond the microfiber clothing and because it's easier to dry and it wicks and it's you don't get all sweaty in it and so that we can see the draw we see the attraction and but then you're thinking what are you eating and so you see layer on layer what do you do you use a spray in your house you know freshen up the room or something why did you open the window okay and um put natural oils you know aromatherapy, natural oils. We've been using them forever and ever and ever, probably thousands of years. Don't use the chemicals in your house. But if you put all those layers, how did we have a chance of everyone having really good radiant health? It's not possible. And then if you have any kind of a genetic predisposition towards a certain illness, well, then all that layering of of air, water, food, and wearables and livables, your car. I mean, when I got my new car in twenty twenty four, I buy a certain kind of car and I'm not going to advertise it, but I will say it Subaru because they last me thirteen years. There's ridiculously low mileage on them. I keep them immaculate. But when I get a new car, I have to drive even through the winter. It's like months. My windows are wide open. All the off gassing from The leather and the chemicals and the plastic and the metal and everything. You know, all that off-gassing. I don't want to do weaving again. And so beauty, we're coming back around to beauty. Okay, we wandered off in fashion and fabrics and what we're putting on. So beauty and industry. Okay, that's where we put the tangent there for a few minutes. Beauty, materialism, and industry, and money, and power. and what sells, and how to sell it and push it, and how to get your product on the market. Now, you know, good products, I'm all for them. Healthy, functioning society that provides good products that people can use to improve their life, enrich their lives, yes, please, bring them on. Transparency is just education for the population, transparency on the part of industry and accountability on the part of government. Because what is going to happen to all these women who are becoming plastic people? I'm sorry. I don't want to offend anybody out there. Um, I've had surgeries, just had a big one. Okay. Still kind of wiggling around a little post hip surgery. And, um, I'm grateful for surgery, would certainly support anybody who felt that they really needed surgery. But the amount of surgery and fillers and chemicals that women are putting into their body to attain what they believe is a form of beauty, that once they get stuck into that, where does it end? And how does that go? You know? And how sad is that? Yes, I can. I absolutely understand that for some people that, you know, having a little chin left or reducing, often it's reducing rather than increasing, but reducing for their own health and well-being. Okay. I understand all of that. And this isn't a judgment on anybody who wants to do that. It's a question on what about your soul? How does your soul where is your inner beauty in relationship with what you're imagining is outer beauty? Do we, do some of us get so stuck in the impression of outer beauty? Cause that's all it is. I've met through all these years, many people who would be considered looking at them or a photo of them beautiful, but they're not, their soul isn't very nice. And so any, any idea of physical beauty instantly disappears. It instantly disappears because soul beauty shines from within. Soul beauty is enriching. Soul beauty connects you to beauty. It connects you to your own soul. It connects you to the beauty we were speaking of that is everywhere around us. What do you think, John? I'm reminded of the great quote from Alice in Wonderland. I'm painting the roses red, not blue, not green, not aquamarine. She's just painting the roses red, you know? Yeah. And how do we find our own beauty and have dignity and confidence in it? We have a feeling that we need to conform to other people's idea of what is beautiful. Understanding that behind that, there's an industry that is driven to provide its products and services. So how do we find a balance in that, in which we find our niche in our soul and in our body and what feels right and real for us? What we do for ourselves because within us it feels right. We're not doing it for anybody else. Okay? Yeah. I don't wear red lipstick for you. I don't wear it for anybody else. I wear it for me because I really like it. It makes me happy. It makes me happy. I don't care if people tell me it's not really fashionable. I should have my lips all popped out and have them all kind of pale pink and shiny. And it's like, ick. That's what fish lips look like. Sorry, but it's true. It's true. You know, it's like, no, I'm not interested in conforming to what industry is telling me is fashionable or is beautiful because I want to just keep staying with what feels right and what feels beautiful inside of me. And if others don't find that beautiful, I'm really okay with it. Yeah. I'm just really okay with it. I'm going to go out and listen to the birds and look at the stars and watch the clouds move and, you know. find beauty where beauty is all around me. I do. I think it speaks to the idea of authenticity and authenticity versus the illusion of beauty. Like if you do find yourself and it's so easy to be given over to the external validation of whatever beauty is or whatever people tell you is because there's so much out there. It's in magazines. It's in music. It's in TV shows. This idea of a standard of beauty that you should be, that's nearly unattainable for anybody because it's fake. But I see so many people. Yes, it is. Beauty fades. It comes. You're, you're quote on the flower here and you know, it's not in the flower, but how the flower teaches us how to die with grace. I'm guessing you coined that. And so, and it's a good one. Thank you. And so that is it. It's being in the moment of the beauty of it. You know, each year I like to buy, just before Christmas, they have a bulb that you can buy called an amaryllis. Okay. It gives you one flower if you're lucky, two, sometimes three flowers. Okay. But they are magnificent. The flower itself is enormous. It's like this. It doesn't last long. but it's just magnificent, you know, and, and, and to just value and appreciate the beauty of it and let it nourish your soul. And so how can we be an agent for change? And, you know, we can not buy products. We can inform advertisers and product makers why we're not buying them. Okay. We can educate the people around us, find, find that little laugh and say, Want to see what's in your products? We can shop wisely. We can be ourselves. We can be ourselves. And if we have anyone around us who is struggling with, you know, impression management, you know, that term I coined when I was writing my books, trying to impress by the image, our self-image. Now, self-image and their sense of self is very much third chakra. And so we can see how if we have any kind of third chakra issues around who I am and who I am in the world, and that can be layered by family issues and school experiences and cultural and social things that we're told beauty is this and power is this. And if you're not that, okay, then you're not beautiful and you're not powerful. And we can get rid of those messages inside of ourselves. And we can make sure that we encourage each, you know, the people around us, our children, our grandchildren, our nieces, nephews, people in our community, in our congregation, encourage them to really focus on their own inner beauty and find that self-expression and not care if, You know, if it doesn't conform exactly to, you know, neither you nor I look like Taylor Swift. Okay. Or maybe anyone else. I'm just a poor woman. She's extremely talented, and she started very young. And God bless her. May she always be well. But the thing is, is I'm not sure if all of what she's doing is healthy for young people. Yeah, it can't be. It's an impossible standard. And it's not just her. It's a team of people behind her creating the illusion of Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift is a character. She's not a true idea of who she really is. Well, I hope within herself she knows that, okay? That she hasn't lost that in becoming the Taylor Swift, the phenomenon, okay? That how often this does happen, that people... you know, whether it's they're fabulous in sports or whatever it is, but they lose their sense of self and become, you know, I remember a quote by a young actor who'd played a role in a very popular series of films. I think it was the Twilight series. And it was, his words were so poignant. He said, I can't really do it because I'm, People don't want to know me, the person. They only want, and I can't remember the young man's name. I think it was Robert Patterson. He says they only want a name for character. That character doesn't exist, but that's who they want. They don't want me. I thought, wow, he really gets it. Good for him. He was so young. He was, what, eighteen or something when he was doing this film, if not a bit younger. He gets it. And that's the illusion and the materialism and the power of industry in our lives is we confuse the image that we're given with real life and real people. And yeah, it reminds me of that quote. Maybe it's not a quote, but it's more of just a saying that sometimes you have to sell your soul in order to get these things. And it's like you do kind of trade part of the light of your soul in order for the character. Well, you know, I think that in any opportunity where prestige, power, acclaim, what have you, is awarded to you because of possible accomplishments, which are, you know, so whether it's in athleticism, or whether it's in fashion, or whether it's in music, or whether it's in any of these areas, it is to the individual to hold on to their moral compass. Yes. And to choose carefully the people around them who are going to support them holding on to their moral compass. And if we surround ourselves with people who are too busy praising us because they want to bask in the glory of our ascendance, let's say, and the fetus lies, you know, the emperor's clothes are, new clothes are glorious. Okay, so if we surround ourselves with people who only want to boost themselves by being reflected in the glory of our accomplishments, let's put it that way, and we don't surround ourselves with people who see that we're just we're still a flawed human being, imperfect like everyone else with our shortcomings and our failures, and that there's some areas that we need to be held in check, you know? And this is why there's so much, so many problems and so much corruption, whether it's spiritual traditions or in all the areas, is because of this power, money thing that happens. in which people want to own beauty as a possession and then dream as much as they can out of that for power and for influence and for money. And that's the dark side of beauty. Yeah. How do you protect yourself in that aspect? Like if you see. Hold on to your moral compass. That's it. Make sure that you can look in the mirror and be okay. And that you're still connected to your soul and your moral compass. And you can still tell a fantasy from reality and right from wrong. Surround yourself with people who are real and authentic. and who will support that which is real and authentic, not who are going to collude with darkness and greed and power. And power is fine as long as it's kept in its place. If you have humility with power, maintain your moral compass with power, if you mindfully make each step that you have to take with power, then power will be okay you know again you have to have the people around you it's not a only thing you know the pope meets the bishops and the archbishops and all the other people who hopefully help them hold it together rather than cooperate with corruption but let's not dwell on the past right it's So, I mean, a prime minister, we have prime ministers in our country, the prime minister, the cabinet is accountable to serve the people. You're elected to serve the people. I mean, I understand Canadian politics better than other countries, so I will only speak to that. But the prime minister is elected by the people to serve the people, to follow our constitution, right? every person who counselor city counselor or federal senator is everybody is elected a member of parliament is seated there because the people believe that that person was going to serve them and serve the country for the higher good it's a lot of power and you have to have layers of checks and balances in there and we see how quickly things go out of whack When power is put into, too much power is put into the wrong hands. You wouldn't let a two-year-old drive your car. I hope not. Or a five-year-old or even a ten-year-old, for that matter, but certainly not a two-year-old. Because it's too much power. A child could do so much damage to themselves and others. So power should be given so carefully, so mindfully. And it should be received with humility, simplicity, dignity, the moral compass straight. Making notes. Yeah. What are you getting out of that? I see it everywhere you know and I I know in my life I've been on the receiving end of power that was neither used responsibly nor was it used compassionately and it ruins lives people that are given power that like power should be and this is just a fantasy but power should be Given to those that least want it. It's not a fantasy. Okay, good. Thank you. It's not a fantasy. It is a genuine hope. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. A genuine hope that power be respected. Yes. That it is given with integrity. Yes. And it is received with authenticity and integrity. I see you in people's lives. Yeah. Because, yes, we can just look around and we can see from the highest to the lowest levels how power can be misused so egregiously. And how do we find that balance? We've wandered around with beauty and we've come around to power because they are so connected. And what is beautiful is when you see power being used correctly. That has beauty. Because beauty and power are connected. We can't totally disconnect them. When we see that power is being used, that is beautiful. When we see that beauty is being used in integrity, then that's powerful. We can have a hope. Hope is good. We can be an agent for change, we can inspire, we can educate. We can not go along with what we believe is not for the higher good. And if we believe that heroineship, which enough people believed was a tragedy and should not be on fashion pages, you know what I'm talking about, heroineship, where they had these fourteen, fifteen year old girls who were emaciated And, you know, with almost the dark circles under their eyes and these kind of weird strange half on, half on, half on, half off clothing, they looked like some poor child you'd find in an alley with a needle. Okay. And that's where Heroin Chic came in. And it had this period of time in which it was, it was on the fashion pages. It was on the highest level of magazine fashion pages. And there was enough of a backlash. that the fashion industry had to stop it. They had to guarantee that they would not work with young women under a certain age, I think it was sixteen, they would not work with them, that they would have them medically checked, that the models had to be medically checked to ensure that their height, weight was in balance, and that these severely thin models were being medically checked. And that trying to eliminate that out of, you know, who was it, famous British model, I think, who said, you can never be too rich or too thin, okay? Well, that kind of weighed in so many young women's heads. Rich and thin are now equated. Rich and beauty are, you know, equated with thin. I mean, just, it was like one of those things that stick together, like magnets and other sticky things, okay? Velcro, okay? Rich, thin, thin. thin, beautiful, okay, thin, powerful. I mean, they all got stuck up together. And until thin became something that women, even who were slim, women who were even, you know, healthy, slim, okay, thought they were fat. Thought they were ugly. Because this This lie, this propaganda had gone in so many minds and made a nest and then had chicks and raised them and fed them. Okay. And how do we get back to beauty is within and healthy is important. And healthy is a range. Healthy isn't a single number. Yeah. It's a range. If you look like in the insurance policies and you're going to see what's your height, what's your height? How tall are you? Five, six. You're five, six. Okay. So there will be a range for a five, six male of, I won't ask your age, of your age and your height, there will be a health. And then are you a slight build, a medium build or a very strong, stocky, you know, heavy bone muscles kind of build that there will be a range of It's healthy. This could be at least ten, if not twenty pounds. OK, often twenty pound range of still in a super healthy zone. And I remember two of my doctors telling me when I went, you know, I'm older now and I'm probably ten pounds heavier than I was those decades ago. And they say, don't lose it. Yeah, you get ill. You need that. Don't lose those ten pounds in this life. And it sits around my waist. you actually need it. You know, I probably lost three pounds the two days after my surgery. You're not eating, you know, you don't have to fast the day before the day of your surgery, you know, general anesthetic, you're not eating, they're pumping stuff into your arm, you know? And I, it's like, I looked at myself and I went, wow, okay. And it's like, no, be careful, be careful, you know? And so I, People, not just women, some men are doing it too. They're viciously counting fat grams, counting calories, measuring every carrot that goes in their mouth. I had clients through all these years. I used to teach a course called Nourishing Wisdom that was about our relationship. I taught it for ages. It was our relationship with our bodies and nature through the earliest relationship with food. So I took the story from umbilical cord nourishment, okay, to breastfeeding, to early foods, to where are we now, okay? And it was fascinating. You know, I got everybody to keep journals for one week of what they ate, no judgment, okay? You know, proteins in red and carbohydrates in blue and fruits and vegetables and what have you. And They learn so much about what are your thoughts when you're eating and before you eat and when you're preparing food and when you're shopping. And you always shop mindfully. You look at the food. You know, when you come home, preparing the food, do you like chopping those vegetables and making soup? And not everybody wants to cook or even has some kind of talent for it, but at least you can still bring better things in, right? And it was so important. informative for people because I was helping them discover themselves and their relationship with food, not just giving them a list of you should do this and you should do that, but discover your own relationship with your body. And one of the exercises was, um, and this is where we're bringing it ground transcendence is one of the exercises in the class was you have to strip naked in front of a full length mirror and find beauty. And that was something like, for one, it went right up where you find beauty. And so we had everything in all those years and sessions of students, everything from I'm ugly. There's nothing beautiful. I'm too fat. I'm too thin. I'm too skinny. I'm too tall. I'm too short. I have bad skin. My eyes are too small. My ears are too large. I mean, it just went on and on with all the bad stuff. Okay. And so the next week, you had to go back in front of the mirror and find beauty. And then there was all those students that went, okay, I'm not classically beautiful. Because, you know, and this is what I tried to teach them after the first time in front of the mirror. Look, your arms work. Aren't they beautiful? How your hands are. How they can turn and open and pull and lift. And aren't your legs beautiful? That they take you everywhere you need to go. And isn't your voice beautiful because it's a way of communicating and so I took them from every just ain't your heart beautiful it's you know blood around your body and isn't your skin beautiful because yeah okay so maybe you don't particularly like the you know whatever but it holds your whole body in without it okay where would you be right I took them basically through just about every body part that has beauty Your bones are beautiful. Your heart's beautiful. Your lungs take in all that air. Send all that oxygen into your bloodstream to promote life, your life. Your eyes see. Do you thank your eyes? All the reading you do to thank your ears? You find beauty in it, you know? Anyway, so the evolution for most of the students was that they were able to look in the mirror and find beauty. The beauty isn't just the external thing. It's the moment by moment how we live our life. And if we can find beauty in that, that let go of those Vogue magazine covers and those Hollywood stars and rock stars and find beauty in the function. This is, we're back to Professor Brian Cox, the magic of it. The beauty of the self and the Atomic construction, you know. The beauty down there of how everything works. It's beautiful. The beauty in the cosmos. The solar system, how beautiful is that? That this little rock called Earth, you know, swinging around, tilting when it needs to tilt, okay, to give us the season, swinging around the sun every year, and that our little solar system is just part of it. galaxy that is moving through space in this multiverse, this is beautiful. So deep down in the atomic structure of our cell, how beautiful is that? You ever look through a microscope? It's like, ew, is that what the bug looks like on my skin? And little tiny little critters that live in our hairs. And so the hair follicle, they're microscopic. They're symbiotic, no different from the little birds that roam around on the top of the rhinoceros and all the other critters and they're doing their job. So beauty. Did we come full around? Yes, I think so. Yeah. So anybody listening, you're going to go and you're going to look in the mirror and you're going to find beauty. Beauty in your soul. Beauty in the extraordinary magic of your body and your life find beauty I agree it's a beautiful way to give people something beautiful to look at it's a great exercise yep so that's everybody's homework that's it and it's been wonderful hanging out with you again today and um I wish everybody who's listening in that there's this wonderful saying. Let's see if I can get it right. It's an indigenous saying, and it's about may beauty be in front of you, may beauty be above you, may beauty be behind you, and may beauty be within you. May you walk in beauty. I love it. I love it. I'm not sure if I've got it a hundred percent right, but I just want to acknowledge the source. Okay. Mm-hmm. So on that note, I'm giving you and everybody a great hug. Thank you for inviting me. It's always a joy and a privilege to be on the show. It's an incredible privilege for me and to all the listeners out there. We send our love and our light over to you. Ladies and gentlemen, go down to the show notes and you can see right here on the front screen, Dr. Jessica's books, Ayahuasca Awakening. Go to her website, check it out. The links will be in the show notes. But before I end it completely, Dr. Jessica, are there any things coming up or where's the best place to find you? And what are you excited about? Best place to find me is either on LinkedIn. Connect with me if you're interested in what I do and what I have to share and say. And, or please go onto my website. Those of you who might be interested, there's lots of things for free and for educational purposes. So lots of links to podcasts and some things I've written. The only thing that you do have to buy are the books and through Amazon, if you wish. And everybody enjoy. I'm looking forward to, we started, the first one was last April and we're by the feedback was extremely successful. I'm advisor to two universities here in Canada on their programs on psychedelic studies. A shout out to Dr. Anne Vallali and Dr. Monica Williams for their program at the University of Ottawa and also to Dr. Pam Christgaw and her team at Vancouver Island University. And so we had participants in a retreat that we did in April. Not only from there, we're We're doing a retreat for graduate and doctoral students in psychedelic studies and allied fields. So that is including psychology, medicine. And so we have people coming from different fields, but who are working in that field and interested in knowing more. And we have another one in the end of October. Those of you who are interested, you could check it out on my post. I have a post on it on LinkedIn. or our church website, which is www.santadiamy.ca, and hoping to provide education on non-ordinary states of consciousness and also participate in two rituals with our church. So that's Ayahuasca or Santadiamy. Ladies and gentlemen, I hope you have a beautiful day. Go down to the show notes. Definitely check out the books. For me, they have been an incredible resource. And I hope everybody has a beautiful day. That's all we got, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you so much. Aloha.