Coffee Can't Fix Everything | Ship the Art: Originality, Creative Fear & Showing Up in the Wild

Some conversations start one place and end up somewhere you didn't expect.

This one started with a simple question — why are people afraid to be original? — and ended up somewhere much closer to home. About the fear of being seen. The exhaustion of putting something real into the world and waiting to find out if it lands. The quiet courage it takes to keep showing up anyway.

Ben is a community builder, author, and one of those people who has spent years doing the work before anyone was watching. He's been showing up to the same community event every single Wednesday for 14 years. He wrote one book about entrepreneurship and connection, then spent three years writing every week until a second one — Brew Within — found its shape. He also ended up with 21 contributing authors, including Corey, whose words live on page 284.

This conversation is for anyone who has something brewing inside them and hasn't shipped it yet.

What we got into:

Ben pushes back on the idea that people are afraid to be original — it's more that the environment changes everything. You can be fully yourself with your people. The wild is where it gets complicated. They talk about what it actually means to show up in community spaces without hiding, without performing, and without leading with "so what do you do?"

There's a whole thread about the tension between creating and marketing — that shift from building something in the quiet to having to shout about it every day on LinkedIn. Ben is honest about how that wears on you. About checking pre-orders. About your closest people knowing your book exists and still not clicking the link — and what you do with that feeling.

Corey shares what he noticed about Ben from the very first email. How collaboration showed up differently here than it usually does. And why he thinks a lot of people miss that piece when they're building something. They also get into writing as a mental health practice — not journaling in the private sense, but publishing your thinking over time until you have a library to pull from. A digitized version of yourself that can keep showing up even when you're not in the room. And somewhere in the middle of all of it, they land on the real thing: if your work never gets seen, it never gets to help anyone. That's not humility. That's selfishness. Ship the art.

A moment worth finding:

Ben's final words to the camera. About originality. About belonging. About what happens when you stop waiting for permission and just make the ruckus.

About Ben:

Author of Brew Within and a community-driven entrepreneur who has spent over a decade building genuine connection through consistency, creativity, and showing up in the wild. His work lives at the intersection of entrepreneurship, community, and the belief that generosity builds trust — and trust caffeinate everything you care about.

Brew Within — https://pouroverpublishing.square.site/product/brewed-from-within-softcover/3A5KIYHRMGTZW7MCW5DYXLTH?cs=true&cst=custom

Resources:
These resources are for information only and may not replace professional medical advice. If you are in immediate danger, please contact your local emergency number.

Crisis support (U.S.)
988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (call/text/chat 988) – Free, confidential support 24/7 for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, substance use, or if you’re worried about someone else.
988lifeline.org

NAMI HelpLine 
Phone: 800‑950‑NAMI (6264)
Text: “NAMI” to 62640
nami.org/help

U.S. mental health information & treatment
SAMHSA Mental Health 
samhsa.gov/mental-health

CDC Mental Health Resources 
cdc.gov/mental-health

Culturally responsive & identity‑affirming care
Therapy for Black Men 
therapyforblackmen.org

Therapy for Black Girls 
therapyforblackgirls.com

Inclusive Therapists
inclusivetherapists.com

Creators and Guests

Host

Corey Dion Lewis

Founder, Healthy Project Media

What is Coffee Can't Fix Everything ?

Grab a cup of coffee (or tea) and join Corey Dion Lewis, community health champion and founder of Healthy Project Media, for candid conversations about mental health. On Coffee Can’t Fix Everything, we sit down with guests from the community—leaders, advocates, and everyday people—to have real, unfiltered discussions about mental health, wellness, and the struggles we all face. No scripts. No pre-planned topics. Just open and honest dialogue over a good cup of coffee. Because while coffee helps, it can’t fix everything.

Coffee Can't Fix Everything
Interview with Ben McDougal
Cleaned Transcript

Corey Lewis: Thank you for listening to Coffee Can't Fix Everything. This is a show where we talk about mental health over a cup of coffee. I have a fellow coffee lover here, maybe even more than me.

I recently got in trouble for the budget that's committed to coffee because I have the espresso machine, and I do the thing at home once in a while, but I kind of like going to coffee shops every day.

Ben, this is kind of your thing. I know I maybe went overboard when I introduced you to Drew and Charlotte at The Slow Down, where we host, about all the things that you do. But it is you, right? That leads me to my question.

With all the things and all the hats you wear, there has to be some originality in every piece of what you do. What I admire about that is the strength and bravery it takes to take on something like that and still bring Ben, who you are, to that piece.

My question is: why do you think people are afraid to be original? Or do you think people are afraid to be original?

Ben McDougal: I do not think people are afraid to be original, but it depends on the environment where they're expressing that originality.

As an example, most of us have no problem being original with family and friends. We're joking around. We're being ourselves. We're using whatever vocabulary we want. We're playing jokes. We're thinking about ideas and talking with them more openly.

The environment that really shifts it is when you're in public, when you're interacting with strangers, when you're putting yourself on the hook.

This question rhymes with some of the elements around the privilege of risk. If responsibility is task number one, then being original would probably be seen as a potential problem if I shake up the boat too much. The comfort of the status quo is real, but it can usually devolve into more of an ego thing where my ideas aren't original, so I'm just going to stick to talking about the weather.

It's not necessarily someone not wanting to show who they are. I think everyone wants to feel like they're living their own life, but humans are thirsty to at least feel a sense of belonging. Sometimes that chameleon-like nature of fitting in is the safest way to make a new friend and align with whoever they're interacting with.

But the more you ship your own art, have thoughtful conversations with strangers, and collide in the wild, I think it can become more normalized and more natural. Even in settings where you know nobody, you can talk in and through some original ideas, and maybe even pull originality out of others.

Corey Lewis: I like what you said about being in the wild. You've said that a couple of times today. Being in the wild, or doing something around the wild. I've heard wild a few times.

Tell me more about what that means. For someone like myself, I would like to consider myself someone who can be original in whatever situation I'm in, but when I take a step back, I know I'm probably not all the time. I'm sure there are moments when I'm out in the wild and I'm looking for a comfort zone to sit in. I might want to be myself in that moment, but I'm over there in the cut. I'm out in the wild. Then you start getting into yourself.

How do you maneuver that? Is this how you've always been? It takes energy to do that. Is this natural for you, to maneuver in the wild and still have a little bit of you in everything?

Ben McDougal: I love this. It reminds me of when I was on a college campus recently and a college student asked me, "What does it mean to stay wild?" I was like, this has a different answer within the context of going through college.

A fun way to jump to a quick thought is saying yes leads to more adventure. For whatever stage of life it might be, this is going to mean something different.

To respond to what you were thinking there, I think showing up to 1 Million Cups every Wednesday for 14 years straight defines colliding in the wild. You're meeting homies that you haven't seen in a while, and a chance to catch up is great, but you're also introducing different perspectives with people you don't know.

That curiosity of getting to know someone's story, showing up slightly differently, and not asking, "What do you do?" can lead to even a short but meaningful interaction.

Doing that in a repetitious, creative-practice kind of way has given me something I'm thankful for. It's not necessarily a comfort in the wild, but an awareness of how to find it, what it can lead to, and how to interact in a professional way while still enjoying myself and feeling the difference.

One more quick thought: there is entertainment available in the wild. There is therapy available in the wild. There is growth available in the wild. Showing up with what you're trying to navigate is important, but it can also become misguided.

If you're in the wild and everyone is there for therapy, but you're looking for something entertaining or different, that's where you see people showing up, enjoying it, appreciating it, but maybe not plugging in or making it part of their routine.

But when you run into a community-driven event where you feel like you're surrounded by your tribe, it's much easier to sacrifice and continue showing up. That's where you see the dial turn away from transactional networking and more into connection. That can lead not only to first-degree opportunities, but also to an engaged network that adds depth. You're interacting with that person's second and third-degree network. Over time, that generosity builds trust and caffeinates whatever you care about.

Corey Lewis: I love all of that. I have a lot to add to that. It reminded me of something someone once told me: in America, we say, "So, what do you do?" And people say, "I work at the bank," or, "Who are you with?"

Ben McDougal: Here's a hack: "I'm with you." Or, "What do you do?" "It's a secret. What else do you want to talk about?"

Corey Lewis: Exactly. We ask very typical questions. But I heard that in Europe they ask, "What are your interests?" That's a whole different way of engaging with somebody. I feel like that's not a heavy lift, to just change how you introduce yourself while still being yourself.

If I'm out, and the goal is, say for me, when I go to 1 Million Cups, though I'll be back at some point, that's just one example.

Ben McDougal: The consistency of those types of events is important. You've got your milestone moments, like events that come around every quarter or every year, where everyone is there. Then you have monthly events that take longer to nurture but can create a lot of momentum. Then you have the glue that occurs over a weekly cadence. 1MC is just one example.

Corey Lewis: You said something important about how somebody is showing up, what they're needing, and where they're at. I can only speak for myself, but I would love to get to a point where I'm in a space and if somebody is being timid, or I can tell they want to be in the mix but are trying to camouflage themselves, I can pull them in. They may have something we all need.

Ben McDougal: A common example of that is students. They show up with the mindset that they have nothing to offer. Perhaps they lack a little life experience, but in contrast, they're also in tune with the frontiers. If students show up with that type of curiosity, a lot of times people will give them a community hug simply for the sparkle of showing up.

That initiative is hard to find. Asking a thoughtful question or being curious is a way that you can show up without needing to have the microphone all the time, while still creating valuable interactions. Then the connection can start to emerge.

We haven't mentioned the new book, but there is a really interesting riff called Interested Introductions. I love the slight look at depth on how introverts might interact with fellow introverts, extroverts, and all these different personality types within a wild environment. Being aware of that helps you understand yourself, but also how you would like to interact so there is more of a sense of connection versus me talking at you and only listening as a facade so I can get out what I want to say.

In the first book, in the community chapter, it talks about this: do not ask "What do you do?" anymore, or "How is the weather?" We're smarter than this.

I'm looking at questions like:

- What mindset inspires your best work?
- What's a recent project you enjoyed working on?
- Are there any roadblocks you're working through?
- What would you do if money wasn't a factor?
- Where did you travel to last?

That last one can maybe devolve into something too personal sometimes. Same with, "How's the family?" That's a meaningful question, and it means everything to that person. But if you're in a community event versus what we're enjoying right here, there's also an art in coming in and exiting those interactions thoughtfully so you're not being short with somebody.

Especially if you're hosting an event, you have other tasks, let alone the opportunity to add more collisions into that moment. You're not being shallow as much as you're jumping deeper faster, enjoying this, but also leaving meat on the bone so you can meet up after the event, at another event, over coffee, or wherever it might be. That's where the depth can go beyond those quick jolts.

Corey Lewis: Right, in a different environment with a different feel, you can get to something different. I want to jump to Brewed From Within.

Ben McDougal: I couldn't help myself. I'm enjoying this.

Corey Lewis: Brewed From Within. You know what? I learned a little bit about you just through the process of Brewed From Within. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I learned from this process, from the first email, is that Ben walks the calls.

What I mean by that is, with 1MC, you say community. Here, you say community. Well, I saw this email list of all these people in your community who were more than happy to be part of this. When you asked me, I didn't have to think about it. It was an instant yes.

I was like, okay, he's really about that life. That was one thing.

The other thing I appreciated was how creative the process felt. It feels so simple, but it is creative.

Ben McDougal: I'll correct you on that because it's not simple. Just kidding. I'm just playing. It's all-consuming. I describe it as not rocket science, but a million little knobs to turn. Nothing is overly difficult in the art of writing, but it takes time. In this case, there are a lot of creative design aspects that go into it.

I don't love the shouting nature that it requires to create awareness. We can talk a little bit about that because I think it's important to articulate.

In this case, Elizabeth, one of your fellow contributing authors, called it a master class in collaboration, and I really appreciated that comment. There are 21 contributing authors. These are not blokes off the street. These are people I highly respect from around the globe.

I'm thinking about these names like, yo, it's not bad when you start an email with Brad Feld and Jonathan Ortmans from the Global Entrepreneurship Network, and all these folks that I highly respect. I'm thankful for the trust that has been built, going back to our earlier points, through the sacrifice of consistency, continuously showing up, delivering on that promise, and accelerating a lot of those people in a variety of ways.

When you do that, we all know this works. Reciprocity. I got that word right on the first try. People are not only willing but thirsty to help. When the opportunity arises, I think we know who we want to be part of it, and there are reasons why. There is going to be an instant yes, but there is also going to be expanded perspective and value in their participation.

Corey Lewis: That's the word I was about to use, but in a different way. I think people miss that piece. What I've learned is that when you say or think community, collaboration has to be part of it.

What I mean is, from our interactions, I would bring a version of something, and then there was a Google Doc, and then you would call me and say, "Yo, I think this could be this," or, "What do you think about this? I really like this."

There was still autonomy. I knew this was my thing, but there was collaboration that made it more meaningful. It wasn't like, "Hey, Corey, write something so I can have some pages to fill." You know what I mean?

Ben McDougal: Right. Or, "Here, I wrote this. Can you sign off on it?" Both of those are not what we wanted.

It was challenging. That's what took the extra time in herding such tigers. It was introducing the idea, creating general direction, but keeping it porous. Corey, what do you feel called to publish in a timeless book? Giving some direction and some space for people to marinate on that.

Then, to your point, there were the tactics of going back and forth, let alone putting it into the sequence of 125 riffs so that it completes the story. There was also celebrating those contributing authors and making sure everyone was communicated with about what was going on.

I think a lot of leaders are curious about writing a book, so I felt like there was an opportunity to go behind the scenes a little bit and share what was going on. Perhaps the email was an extra paragraph longer than it needed to be, but I could see that awareness spawning new original content from this small group of remarkable leaders.

Corey Lewis: To bring it back to the main point we started with, that's why I feel it's important for people to understand that being original may come with some fear. But being original, in the sense of you as Ben having this idea, books aren't new ideas, right? They've been around for a minute. But you said, I want to put Ben on this. I want to put Ben in this book. This is the creative mind of Ben. Now I'm going to bring my people in to do this.

There is somebody right now who has a Brewed From Within in them, and they're afraid to bring it out.

Ben McDougal: I think there's a suggestion that everyone has a book to write, if we're going to use this as the example. It's when it starts keeping you up at night that this becomes a strong signal that I teach folks to keep an eye on, because that's where you might have the resiliency to go long-term with the sacrifice required.

Writing a book is something everyone probably thinks about and gets excited about, but even after they spend time crafting whatever it is, there's still more. There's always more that needs to be done.

It's not for everyone, but it is a healthy process, even if it's not in book form. Writing helps us understand ourselves. I like to read to learn more about the world, but as you add writing into your creative practice, with all the AI productivity being leveraged whenever it's needed, writing helps us think.

In doing so, you're not only articulating thought and becoming able to share it verbally, but if you publish it, you're indexing your thoughts. Now when you and someone interact and talk about whatever it might be, if you write every week for three years, it turns out you've got a library to pull from. When you depart, that's an example of sequencing the relationship building, because you can drop a link related to whatever you talked about.

You're adding depth to your digitized consciousness that can be pulled from. It almost lets you have less of an agenda when you're talking to someone because you don't have to deliver it all in one sitting. It's little pieces at a time that may be easier to consume and easier to do.

It might be a photo here. It might be a video there. It might be writing there. This is what social media was until it got deformed by what we think of when we hear that term. This is how you can have social interactions with the support of creative acts. It makes it more entertaining, interesting, and resonant on various levels.

The creative act is something we all have that spirit for, but going back to the privilege of risk, as that creative spirit gets that layer applied, that's where we see more people with that entrepreneurial spirit. That's kind of a segue we can pull back from, but I get passionate about this stuff. It's because I've experienced it for myself, but I've also been around the level of wild. I've supported different types of founders, students, intrapreneurs, and community builders in rural, medium, urban, and large-city environments. I'm thankful for the awareness that I've been introduced to, and I would almost regret it if I wasn't able to synthesize it and, for some people, deliver my understanding.

Corey Lewis: We've talked a lot about the fun of the creative side of being original. The originality in the creativity, how that's exciting, how that pushes out new ideas, and how it helps formulate the book. We haven't talked a lot about the back end of it. You've alluded to it, but there is the stress of wrangling all the people, putting it together, and still doing your part for the book.

Ben McDougal: It's funny because I promote the 20-plus contributing authors so heavily that people might forget I wrote 105 of the other riffs. The commitment is an ongoing part of your creative practice. It's not needing to be in a certain environment to be inspired. You're doing the work to feel inspired.

Over time, it becomes your art. I'm quick to take a photo for no reason, knowing it might sequence into something later, even if I don't understand the reason now. Having some trust in yourself and having milestones to feel the sensations of success feels important.

A fun hack on podcasting is a series. It can feel heavy when it's this forever quest where you don't know if it's going to work or if you even want to do this. There are ways we can experiment with creative activities so we don't get overindulged and dilute ourselves to mediocrity.

But there's also a lot of personal tension. I'll give you one that's been interesting.

As you turn from whisper mode, first you're in silent mode. You're in the workshop. You're building something that takes so much effort, time, attention, and heart. Then, like customers for a startup, you kind of have to have them. When it comes to making an impact with something you care so much about, you have to start whispering to create awareness. The cover art is coming soon. There is this sequence of marketing.

Then you get into shout mode, and it feels so self-serving. You think, wait, I have to post on LinkedIn every day? No one wants to hear from me every day, but I have to hope it hits the algorithms.

In the shout stages of different kinds of launches, whether it's a company or a book, it can really weigh on that sensation of trying to gather attention. You start to worry that you're being careless with the network you really care about. You start to question some of your closest connections when you've made it very clear that this thing means everything to you.

This is an opportunity for them to throw 200 cents onto Amazon and play the game with us, or $20 to say, "Hey, keep building. Stay original." This is an extension to keep you creative.

When you don't see those expected numbers flurry the way you always hope, you start to wonder if the connections are true. But what I'm starting to hope is that the scarcity of attention is so real that even your best friend can know 100% that you have a book coming, that it means a lot to you, and that they plan to have it on their shelf. They're down to click the thing on Amazon. But because we're so distracted with life, it requires almost a reminder: "Yo, what's going on? Nice to see you again." "Oh my gosh, I didn't get the book yet." Then it happens. There was no question as to whether they wanted to.

That is a trust thing in the art. At the same time, you cannot let the metrics of book sales, pre-orders, or whatever blind you to the beauty of what is being created, whether or not the transaction count comes to a point you feel is appropriate.

Corey Lewis: I think what makes it hard is that we can be doing something because we know it's impactful and valuable. We don't want the transaction piece to be louder than what we know in our hearts.

In my heart, I know I'm doing this because I put a lot of work into this. You know what's behind it. It's like that iceberg meme everyone has seen. I don't want the feeling of having to ask someone to get it to feel like all I want is their money. It's not about the money.

There's that balance of, I didn't write this book thinking, "This book will make so much money."

Ben McDougal: You will be disappointed if that's your motivation.

Corey Lewis: That's not the motivation. Knowing that's not the motivation, you start thinking, how do I do this? Going back to your feeling of now I've got to post every day just so somebody a month from now can see what I posted yesterday. It wears on you.

Ben McDougal: It wears on you. Unfortunately, in a loud world, it's part of the prerequisites, and I don't like that part of it.

Corey Lewis: It's part of the game.

Ben McDougal: That's one example of tension behind the scenes that I think any artist feels when it starts to feel more transactional than what it always was. It's art that connects with those you seek to serve.

Here's a fun one, and I have no idea how time is.

Corey Lewis: We're good, man.

Ben McDougal: I lost where I was headed with that. Let's continue.

Corey Lewis: Where I was going to go after that was: when you're going through this process and you're at the coffee shop, wherever the coffee shop is, and you're trying to figure out what goes through your mind, are you thinking, what do people need right now? Or are you thinking, this is where I'm at?

What is that process like going from book one to book two?

Ben McDougal: Book one is all about a community-driven entrepreneurial experience. In this case, it came from that wild level of collisions and seeing how so many different people were building things they care about. In doing so, you recognize the similarities that are more abundant than maybe we'd like to admit.

You're often going to need some ideation. You're often going to need some research and some marketing. The things involved with building a business are a required framework. Leaning into my understanding of that was the thesis behind the first book, if for no other reason than to synthesize it for my little one. Here is everything I understand about entrepreneurship in the connected era.

The second book was unknowingly an extension of that quest. As you start to release little bits of writing through an ongoing newsletter and curate content, that content created a runway to release new writing every week. A lot of it in the early days came from the book, but that runs out.

So you start writing more and more. I wrote every week for three years, and this wasn't private journaling. This was shipping the art to the audience I seek to serve. That created a lot of appreciation for writing and understanding ourselves.

But it got to a point where I looked back at this beautiful library and realized I didn't want it to get numb or lost in an online blog. There might be another book concept or two that I had, but I looked back at that timeless content and appreciated what had emerged beyond the first book. I decided to revisit it, maybe selfishly hoping it would be a jumpstart to getting another book, or another purpose for content I really cared about.

But it was by no means copy and paste. So much more of it was having a strong framework. Behind the scenes, one day, this is no tech, I printed out the titles of every riff I had in the online library and organized them into some form of flow. That was going to be the trick: can you make all these individual posts tell an A-to-B story?

They all rhyme because I wrote all of them. This is 100% human. It's on the copyright page.

I realized I was going to need four parts. There is entrepreneurship, of course, which builds on the first book. Then there is community building. Then there is a leadership element that sprinkles into education, intrapreneurship, leading a team, and the culture that goes along with that.

But I'm a technologist, so there is also a lot of nerdery we can explore without it becoming intimidating and without trying to be too timely. How do you write about something that moves so quickly without being overly abstract? That was one of the more challenging sections as it came together.

The last one is a very heartfelt piece in this book that everyone's probably going to jump to, maybe even reading that part first. That's the part you're in: the life and happiness section.

Business often connects us. That's the conduit in the wild. That's why we're showing up. We have something we care about that is commercialized. But so often, when you continue to show up and the connections truly emerge, it becomes about life, happiness, philosophy, spirituality, and all the things you build a business around. But it might not be the business you're truly connecting with.

Corey Lewis: I was going to ask you why that was in this book, because when you first talked about the book, I was thinking: Ben, entrepreneurship. That's what this book is. Then I'm like, I'm talking about mental health stuff in this book. Where did that come from?

Ben McDougal: Revisiting the library, I realized that in your weekly writings, it's not always about the tactic that generates customer discovery or whatever. There was a call to present that.

I'll admit, I'm a little more private when it comes to my personal family life, but there were ways you could pull in the personal and the timely nature of something and have it be important, but not too personal where the reader feels like this is a memoir. That's the opposite of what I wanted.

In fact, the word "I" is purposefully avoided, like in the first book, so readers can experience it for themselves, appreciate the perspective, and then translate it for what they need to execute around.

I'm thankful for that piece, Corey. It's one of my favorite elements. You have astronomy brewed into that section. "Santa Is Real" is one. "Gimmies." "The Hole-in-One" is written by a contributing author who hit a hole-in-one on my 40th birthday. Vanessa McNeal is another contributing author. She writes about waiting rooms in life.

There is a lot of philosophy and psychology in that section. I think it's important because it's part of this genre: an entrepreneurial lifestyle. It's not only entrepreneurship. This is a creative way of being.

Tactics are important, but there's so much more to it. The life and happiness section finishes us in style. It would not feel honest if it didn't include that, if you're broadening it to the entrepreneurial lifestyle.

Corey Lewis: Which, in a way, I don't know if this was on purpose, but it makes more sense that it's the last section. You're in this entrepreneurship section. You just came off the nerdery of a technology section that's not intimidating, but it blows your mind.

Ben McDougal: I'm a translator. I'm a hybrid who grew up before the internet, but I'm not old and afraid of change. I embrace it. With a computer science degree and technologist vibe, I embrace those things while appreciating the human touch.

I'm excited to hear what people think about the technology section. I'm kind of passionate about the whole thing.

Corey Lewis: This fast car is like, okay, now it's time to stop and breathe.

Ben McDougal: Right. Take a beat. There are mindfulness activities. There is physical exercise. I know your audience appreciates both the physical and mental health aspects of however we're choosing to spend time.

One fun one is 1% better. I've felt the value of breaking a sweat. When we get busy, it's easy to think we're active, but there's a difference when you break a sweat.

It's funny because my Peloton instructor, Bradley Rose from England, has one of the very few quotes in the book.

Corey Lewis: Really?

Ben McDougal: The three people who have quotes in the book are Bradley Rose, for the Peloton fans, Seth Godin, and Naval Ravikant. Seth Godin gave me a green light to share a couple of related quotes. Naval Ravikant brings the philosophical flavor. He can articulate big thoughts in a small amount of words.

Corey Lewis: I think you might appreciate this: Seth Godin's book Tribes is how I created My City My Health. I read that book and thought, this is how we create community. If you think about that book and how we do My City My Health, it's all in there.

Ben McDougal: Tribes is my favorite. I've given away more copies of Tribes than any other book besides mine. Generosity builds trust. It makes sense that we enjoy these types of jam sessions.

Seth Godin is my favorite teacher and a hero of mine. Having a blurb from him on the back of the first book was so cool: "Jam-packed with hard-earned tips, tactics, and approaches for entrepreneurs of all stripes."

There is a whole story we won't go into, but when it comes to interacting with your hero, one tactic is to go straight gratitude, no ask.

When I interacted with Seth for the first time, there was a slight mention that I had activated my first book, but it was much more about saying thank you. Gratitude. Not just, "Hey, this is my favorite book," but Tribes is linked to a Twitter thread that has a million different key takeaways. So it showed signals of a true fan. That led to some neat interactions.

Having real skills opens things up. In the entrepreneurship section, I was given permission to reprint something as it appeared in The Song of Significance by Seth Godin, which is a manifesto for teams and almost an update from Linchpin.

Linchpin was an earlier book that focused on entrepreneurship, being indispensable, and how the education system was built on compliance to deliver factory workers. Factories are not bad. It's just that existing systems needed people to know how to work within them.

The Icarus Deception is one of my favorite books from Seth Godin that most people haven't read. His recent one is This Is Strategy, and he has a new one called The Knot.

In the back of both of my books, but Brewed From Within is the most updated list, there are additional readings and resources. Even in the opening remarks, I say that this style, vocabulary, and even the format of riffs versus chapters is inspired by Seth Godin. I speak Seth Godin plus Brad Feld. That's how I translate it.

Corey Lewis: That's so cool. That could be a whole other part two and three of a podcast. We'll do that another day.

Ben, this was so cool, man, to be able to chop it up with you and talk about this book. I appreciate you thinking of me and allowing me to give my two cents to this. I'll make sure the link is in the description of this episode so people can go check it out.

Ben McDougal: Let's find the page Corey lives on.

Corey Lewis: What page am I living on? Where am I?

Ben McDougal: You're in the fourth section. I'm flipping through the back. Page 119, "Winding Wise." "Wayfinders," which fun fact used to be called "Number One Dad," but it needed to apply to moms as well. "Love Letters," the value of individuality through trust in relationships. Something that's not talked about as much in the startup community is the value of our co-founders in life and the appetite that can provide for the original to be creative and go down these entrepreneurial paths.

"Feng Shui Front and Center." If anyone has been to a music concert and felt the euphoria of how music decorates time, this is a fun one because it shows how you can get to the front, into the center, and even use your superpowers of creative content creation to skip the line and get behind the DJ with the media pass.

"Santa Is Real." "1% Better." Here it is: "Creation Versus Consumption." This may be the first time Corey's felt the book specifically on this page. Of course, every contributing author is celebrated in those extra shots, which are little jolts throughout the manuscript.

Corey Lewis: My name's in the joint. I'm just going to give you this: "Before the music, before the crowd, there's one voice asking, can you hear me?" Woo. That's it. Oh my God.

Ben McDougal: You've got to give away the page number. No more.

Corey Lewis: Page 284.

Ben McDougal: Pages 284, 285, and 286. At the end of every riff, the level of digital depth will pleasantly surprise folks. They're able to scan a QR code and hit the mirrored riff online, which has some additional storytelling.

Corey Lewis: That is so cool. That is awesome.

Ben McDougal: Thanks for being part of such an important quest.

Corey Lewis: Yeah, man. Ben, this is great. Before you get going, the one thing I have all my guests do is look in the camera. If there's somebody listening or watching right now, and there's one thing you can tell them, or one piece of advice you would give them, what would it be? Look in that camera. Take your time. What would you say to them?

Ben McDougal: I'll connect it to the opening prompt of why people are afraid to be original by encouraging you to make a ruckus, to be original, to feel a sense of belonging through your unique perspective, and to ship the art.

If that originality isn't seen, isn't felt, isn't heard, isn't read, it doesn't land with those you seek to serve. So quit being selfish.

Ship the art. Make a ruckus. Be wrong. Welcome that type of collision. The more you do it, that normalization creates a naturalization that allows you to continue finding creative ways of connecting others, accelerating others, and continuing to feel the blessing of building into something we truly care about.

Corey Lewis: Boom. I appreciate that. Ben, thank you so much.

Everybody, thank you for listening to Coffee Can't Fix Everything. Like I say after every show, I am not a therapist. I don't play one on TV. There will be links in the episode to mental health resources if you choose to go there.

Again, coffee can't fix everything, but we're going to have a conversation over coffee and break that stigma one coffee at a time.

I'll talk to you next time.