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Rise Above: a podcast from Rogers Behavioral Health takes listeners on a journey of education and inspiration as we sit down with mental health and addiction experts and past patients who are changing how the world views mental health and addiction.
You know, for six years I've suffered in silence and I find it hard to believe that the men and women at the police department that I worked with didn't know something was going on.
Andy Meddaugh:You're listening to Rise Above, a Rogers Behavioral Health Podcast, where we sit down with Rogers experts who are changing the way the world views mental health and addiction. Welcome to Rise A Book, a podcast from Rogers Behavioral Health. I'm your host Andy Meadow and today we're talking about a critical resource designed specifically for those who serve our communities every day: the Rogers Firewatch Program. It's a program built with first responders in mind recognizing their unique experiences, their unique stressors, and the importance of getting support from people who truly understand their job. And in this episode, we'll learn more about the Firewatch Program from Jen Parnelson, Clinical Director at Rogers Behavioral Health.
Andy Meddaugh:And we'll also hear from Captain Adam Meyers, founder of Stop the Threat, Stop the Stigma, who shares his personal journey and why the programs like Firewatch are so essential. Jen, Captain Myers, thank you both so much for being here.
Captain Adam Meyers:Thanks for having me,
Jen Parra-Nelson:Thank you.
Andy Meddaugh:I wanted to just start with you, Captain Meyers. What makes you so passionate about mental health and first responders?
Captain Adam Meyers:Well, to be honest with you, I wasn't always passionate about mental health until I was involved in a critical incident. On 04/08/2016, was involved in a critical incident. I used deadly force on somebody who armed themselves with a hatchet inside our Walmart store, and I ended up shooting them and they ended up dying. And for many years, six years actually, I suffered in silence. I struggled with my mental health.
Captain Adam Meyers:I had poor coping strategies such as abusing alcohol, self harm, abusing over the counter drugs, abusing marijuana, abusing prescription drugs and even casual sex. Those were all poor coping strategies. They may have helped me momentarily, but in the long run they just cause more harm than good, cause more anxiety, stress, depression. And I did that for six years. So once I finally decided to get the right kind of help, put myself first, you know, as first responders, we tend to put everybody else first.
Captain Adam Meyers:But I finally said enough was enough. It's not working for me. I got very lucky over the years struggling and trying to take care of myself the way I did that I that I wasn't arrested, that I didn't die, because I did think of suicide many times, that I got the right kind of help. As I got healthier, I looked back and realized and understood more as to everything that I was doing and why it didn't work and why it caused more harm than good. And that just made my mental health advocacy even stronger.
Captain Adam Meyers:That's where it all came from. And I realize that because I'm a different person now after my critical incident than I was before. You know, before I wasn't interested that much into the whole mental health aspect, and now it's extremely important to me. And I do everything I can to share my experience and to help other first responders because I know what I went through. I understand that you can't do it by yourself.
Captain Adam Meyers:Many years I thought to myself, you know, if I just keep going, everything will fall into place, everything will be okay, I don't need help, and I was wrong. I needed help and I couldn't do it myself, but I thought I could and I just kept going and I'm lucky that I survived.
Andy Meddaugh:Jen, I feel like this is where it's a good time to bring up the Firewatch Program at Rogers Behavioral Health. You are, is it safe to say, in charge of it?
Jen Parra-Nelson:Well, I'm the director of the program, yes, and I write the curriculum for it, and I work really hard to ensure that we're getting the word out that these services are available. I mean, I think what Adam has just said about what he has went through and not just being able to offer services for those who are going through, you know, really traumatic incidences and going through a lot of stress. I mean, we know first responders are exposed to, you know, countless extraordinary events that the average person may never go through, never encounter, never see, maybe happen to them once, but these are folks that are putting themselves in these situations on a regular basis, and we can't expect them to always be able to come out on the other side without having some consequence. And I think, you know, with the Firewatch program and just getting into this space the last couple years, I'm a daughter of a veteran, so veteran concerns have always been something that has been near and dear to my heart, but, you know, it's important for us to be there on both sides of what first responders do, right?
Jen Parra-Nelson:The preventative side, education, kind of what Adam is doing now with his work, with stop the threat, stop the stigma is, you know, we need to be having these conversations. And I think that's what the Firewatch Program is doing on many levels is both there when things happen, but also, you know, we're there when the stresses aren't that get to that extent, right? And when you're starting to feel some of that stress mount up and affect the way you live, we can be there to help it to prevent it to get to that level where you're using substances and other things to distract from the pain.
Andy Meddaugh:So what's the significance of it just being a program for first responders that isn't just for all civilians?
Jen Parra-Nelson:There's that unique culture that exists within the veteran and first responder population. There's a brother sisterhood that occurs. There's that connection, that reliance, that shared goal, that shared mindset of putting others and the mission in front of themselves, and they do that together, and there's that camaraderie of doing that. And again, like I said before, putting themselves in extraordinary situations where a civilian wouldn't understand, and it can feel very isolating, especially when you're trying to talk about it with somebody who wouldn't understand that situation. There can be a lot of shame, a lot of moral injury that comes along with some of those things, because, you know, when you're in combat, your mission is to, you know, potentially kill someone.
Jen Parra-Nelson:And then if you're, you're back in civilian culture, that is something that we don't promote, or it feels very opposite to what maybe you were told. So, that camaraderie, that getting it, is probably one of the most important things that we can offer in this program. I would love to hear, Adam, if you have anything to say about that as well.
Captain Adam Meyers:I agree, Jen. I mean, first responders, they want clinicians that understand us and that are cultural competence, somebody who knows what they're talking about and not just somebody who's book smart and sits there and listens and says that you should do this, that and the other thing. You know, for years when I suffered in silence, it was because I was afraid of that stigma. I was afraid of being judged. Confidentiality, you know, I worked hard to become a police officer.
Captain Adam Meyers:I am also a veteran. I was military police in the Army for, you know, five years, active duty. And I worked hard to be a police officer. That's all I ever wanted to be, is grow up and be a police officer. So I wanted some, you know, strict assurance that seeking help wouldn't result in being deemed unfit for duty or other kind of career repercussions.
Captain Adam Meyers:You know, and that's why I went to therapy and then I didn't go and then I did and then I said, forget it, I'll take care of it myself. And I was wrong. I should have gotten, you know, help like Firewatch offers. I mean, that's great. I mean, it's a program like that, you know, it gains trust, it encourages conversation, and clinicians listen without judgment.
Captain Adam Meyers:That's important. And as a first responder, we deal with the worst of the worst, or we deal with it the way we think we should deal with it, which isn't always healthy. But, you know, for many years I stopped going to therapy because I thought that I could just take care of it myself. It was part of the job. If I keep going, everything will be fine.
Captain Adam Meyers:And I wish there was somebody there with me during that time to kind of push me, to kind of motivate me to say, Hey, Adam, we know how you were and we know how you are now and we'll support you, but you really need to get some kind of help. And we would like you to see that. And I think that little bit of motivation, you know, over time probably would led have me into a program similar to Firewatch. But we didn't have anything like that. There was no follow through with me.
Captain Adam Meyers:I was cleared from my shooting, went back to work. There was no ensuring that I was going to therapy. There was no making sure Adam is okay. Are you going to therapy? Are you doing this, that and the other thing?
Captain Adam Meyers:No, I think it was just the vibe I got was like, Hey, Adam's back at work. If he needs anything, he'll let us know or he'll ask us. And I wasn't going to. You got to be kidding me. I wasn't going to be reaching out and saying, Hey, I'm excessively drinking.
Captain Adam Meyers:I'm participating in casual sex. I'm trying marijuana for this. I just wouldn't have. So that's why a program like Firewatch is great. You know, it's difficult to build that trust and earn that trust with first responders, but once you can do that, the hope that we have to get better is there and you can get better and you don't have to keep living the way you are.
Captain Adam Meyers:You can get better and you can, be resilient and continue in your career and and be healthy again. Otherwise, you're just gonna continue to suffer in ways that you probably don't even realize and don't even understand. So I think Firewatch is a is a great program.
Andy Meddaugh:You mentioned stigma. Yeah. Are you talking stigma, like at the police, in the police force or stigma just amongst, you know, your community, both?
Captain Adam Meyers:All of the above. Mean, you know, as a police officer, you know, we're trained very well in Wisconsin, but one of the things we're not trained very well is in mental health. Everybody is different how they respond to mental health, the way they respond to the calls we go on. So you can't really say this is gonna work for everybody. And that stigma is strong in the first responder profession because you're gonna be judged.
Captain Adam Meyers:The stigma still exists. It's getting better, but it's still there. And I think it's always going to be there. But that stigma of saying, Hey, need help. I'm not doing okay.
Captain Adam Meyers:Even if you don't understand what you're going through, you tend to stay quiet. And I remember when I first started my career in my hometown, I was an evidence technician on third shift and we had a triple homicide. Seven people were shot and three were killed. And I was fine. I wasn't affected.
Captain Adam Meyers:I wasn't having nightmares. I wasn't poorly coping. But weeks after that incident, the peer support team went around and kind of met with us. Like when you see cops sitting side by side and are you doing okay, Adam? And I was, I was doing okay.
Captain Adam Meyers:But after going through what I went through and getting healthier and looking back, there is no way I would have told that peer support officer that I was struggling. This was my lifelong dream to be a police officer in my hometown. And I had just got off of the training program. I'm driving my own squad car. There's no way I'd be like, Well, I'm having bad dreams and I'm drinking.
Captain Adam Meyers:Wouldn't. No, I would have dealt with it myself because there's a chance I could lose everything.
Jen Parra-Nelson:And
Captain Adam Meyers:six years after my critical incident, after suffering in silence for years, ultimately I did get terminated. I went on a leave of absence and they didn't extend my leave of absence. And they said, can either resign or we're terminating you. And I chose not to resign and I got terminated. But I'm glad I did that.
Captain Adam Meyers:I'm glad I got the right kind of help because I'm better now because of it. I'm a better man. I'm a better father. I'm a better police officer. I'm just a better person and I'm healthier.
Captain Adam Meyers:And I'm living the kind of life that I should have been living six years ago.
Jen Parra-Nelson:Yeah. And I just want to add too, because you bring up so many great points, Adam, that the stigma isn't just the stigma around mental health, feeling emotions. It's all the so the stigma within, right? Like we are raised in a culture that doesn't teach mental health skills. You know, we're taught math, we're taught, you know, all these things, but we're not taught how to regulate ourselves, regulate our emotions, how the brain works, right?
Jen Parra-Nelson:And why we respond to things the way we respond to things. These are critical things, maybe even more so important than algebra, that we could be teaching our kids growing up so they can take these things into their adulthood. So, you know, there's that self stigma, there's stigma from others, because I'm sure as a first responder, have the public watching you, right? Watching you deal with the widest variety of situations and having to almost perform in a way to ensure that, you know, not that you're keeping up your reputation in front of the public as well. And then again, as you've been talking about is that systemic stigma of no one's following up with me.
Jen Parra-Nelson:What is that telling us? Right? That's telling us that it's not that important and I should just be getting over it. So coming from a variety of places, and I can imagine just how much that weighs on someone who's struggling with mental health concerns and not even really knowing that that's what it is.
Captain Adam Meyers:You're right. There's I've received, you know, many comments from the public that I shouldn't be a police officer now once they hear my mental health journey and what I went through and what I've overcome. They're like, you have no right to be a cop. Know, you're kind of a You're mental a nutcase. You shouldn't be doing it.
Captain Adam Meyers:And even I've got the same responses from some police officers. And, you know, for six years I've suffered in silence. And I find it hard to believe that the men and women at the police department that I worked with didn't know something was going on. I can't prove it obviously, but I believe they did and I think that they just they weren't sure what to say or do, so they chose not to get involved at all. And I get that, it's that stigma.
Captain Adam Meyers:They don't want that connection with me. And I understand that. And, you know, even after I was terminated, it has been four years and I was completely ghosted. Nobody texts me, calls me, nothing. It's like our friendships didn't exist and that hurts.
Captain Adam Meyers:But you're absolutely right, Jen. The public, the people you work with, all of the above. Everybody has an opinion and what's most important is I got help and I got the right kind of help and I'm better today because of it. And that's what's important.
Andy Meddaugh:So speaking of getting help, Jen, in the Firewatch Program, can we talk a little bit about results? Like what have you seen, people coming in and then people leaving the Firewatch Program? What type of results are you seeing?
Jen Parra-Nelson:Yeah, I mean, we're seeing a lot of really great results. And I just wanna say, I mean, people are coming into this program skeptical. I mean, there's a lot of reluctance to come into this program. I think some people may have been exposed a little bit more to mental health and they're like, Oh, here, can come, I can get help and that'll be great. I'm not excited about it, obviously, but I'm gonna do it.
Jen Parra-Nelson:And then we have others who are like, I don't know why I'm here. This isn't gonna help me. Nobody can help me. I just have to deal with it on my own, right? And so we get the wide variety.
Jen Parra-Nelson:I think what really gets them when they come into our program is they see who they're talking with and who they're interacting with. And our therapist is a veteran. Our BS is a veteran. You know, I'm the daughter of a Marine, you know, you are dealing with people who care directly about this demographic of people. Our providers' husband is a lifelong firefighter, You know, our nurse's daughter is currently in boot camp.
Jen Parra-Nelson:So, yeah, I mean, you are you are walking in to people who know what you're going through to a certain degree. And then also, we speak your language, right? Like we, you know, this isn't a program where we talk a lot about like, you know, I think people get really turned off by talking about emotions because one, we, again, we don't get taught these kinds of things. Talking about emotions, especially in this demographic, isn't normalized at all and completely invalidated when you do. So, it's really nerve wracking and uncomfortable to come in and do that.
Jen Parra-Nelson:But I think what we're trying to focus on in this program is, you know, the fact that this is a normal reaction to being exposed to all of these abnormal circumstances for a long period of time. And we're really trying to work on rewiring the brain as much as we are expression and feeling your emotions and those types of things. You know, like people shy away a lot from wanting to express their emotions, But when we break it down into, you know, a little bit of like validation and how the brain works and why your nervous system is reacting the way it is, it feels less stigmatizing than when you think the therapist is going to ask you if you're feeling sad today. Know, like it's not like that. So as far as results go, I mean, we're seeing a really big decrease in people's moral injury.
Jen Parra-Nelson:So that is something that we focus on in the program is people who have, you know, been in situations, you know, like Adam has described, where they have to make a decision. Is it the decision they want to make? Absolutely not. But it's the decision that they have to make, and the consequences is going to be pain after you make that hard decision, and there's no place to put it and not much to do with it. We end up holding it in, and we end up, you know, doing all the activities to distract ourselves.
Jen Parra-Nelson:And if we don't feel it, then we must be on the right path. But that's really not how it works. So, I mean, statistically speaking, we're seeing great results with decrease in moral injury. We're seeing great results with people who have traumatic stress. We're seeing quality of life go up significantly.
Jen Parra-Nelson:So, I mean, our outcomes are beautiful. You know, we've had a lot of people come through our program and just, you know, feel like it gave them the foundation that they can then use to go on in their career. You know, we want people to continue to be in police department, firefighters, you know, go back, you know, re enlist, or whatever it is that they want to do. We're here for it. We're here to help give you the tools to do that.
Andy Meddaugh:And I'm just curious, Adam, what was your reaction when you found out that the Firewatch Program existed?
Captain Adam Meyers:I think it's great. It's so important. I mean, I continue to see a therapist. I also take medication. I was diagnosed with major depressive disorder, PTSD, acute stress with dissociative features, and a program like Firewatch, without a doubt, is going to be helpful.
Captain Adam Meyers:It's so important to getting better. It's so important to helping first responders and the military. And I think it's great. It's absolutely great. And, you know, just touching on what Jen said a little bit earlier about having clinicians who speak our language and understand, That was a memory I have that was very important to when I started to begin my healing process was when I met another officer who had shot and killed somebody in the line of duty.
Captain Adam Meyers:And we started talking and I didn't have to explain anything to him. All I had to do was talk and he understood me, Even though his experience was different, even though my experience was different from his, we understood each other. And I still remember thinking like, wow, this guy gets it. He's kind of just like me. And that's so important to making you feel that you're not alone and understand that you're not the only one out there.
Captain Adam Meyers:So what Jen said is so important and FireWatch is so important to have those type of people in the program because it's really going to help people.
Jen Parra-Nelson:Yeah, and you know, think in a lot of ways we feel like there has to be all of these things in place for people to heal. Know, like, oh, they have to, you know, have access to this and this and all of that stuff. You know, they have to have Maslow's hierarchy of needs and we get really stuck on some of those things. Really, and I think even outside. Of the Firewatch program, but really near and dear to the Firewatch program is is the theme of community and healing within communities.
Jen Parra-Nelson:And I think that's something that we've lost. And I hate to keep coming back to the culture, but I think in our culture, you know, we're an individualistic culture where we pick ourselves up by our bootstraps, and, you know, if we're not doing it on our own, then there must be something wrong with us, or we're not doing it correctly. If we're asking for help, then we're a burden, and all these types of things. And that's so untrue because the only way we can really truly heal is within that community, is with other people, is sharing our stories, is hearing other people's stories and recognizing that we're not alone. Oftentimes when we're doing this by ourselves, it's all going on in our head, right?
Jen Parra-Nelson:Like we just keep turning it over and over again and it doesn't go anywhere, it doesn't process any different, and it's not going to improve your symptoms, right? The improvement comes when you can say it out loud, when you can start talking about it with somebody. So, we need to move past this idea that we have to be individuals all the time and not ask for help. And I think that's what's so unique about bringing together firefighter or I'm sorry, first responders and veterans and active military a group is to watch that community come together and really support each other effectively. I mean, you have people who didn't want to talk about their emotions coming into the Firewatch program, and then you see them helping each other with emotions, talking about each other's emotions, and you're like, You knew what to do this whole time.
Jen Parra-Nelson:It was in there, and we just needed that camaraderie and that togetherness to bring it out in people. That's what I find is so unique and powerful about the Firewatch Program.
Andy Meddaugh:And I will say, I think you touched on it a little bit, but Adam, with Stop the Threat, Stop the Stigma. In perfect world, what's the solution in the police department? How do we stop the stigma?
Captain Adam Meyers:I think you have to normalize mental health and you have to begin at a young age, number one. Number two, go through grade school, elementary school, high school, college, the police academy, and continue that wherever you work, at a fire department, at a police department. It needs to be normalized. And, you know, police department is different, every fire department is different, you need to figure out what works for you, but it needs to be as normal as if you twist your ankle when you go go to the doctor and get help. You know, and leaders need to talk the talk and walk the walk.
Captain Adam Meyers:They can't just say, hey, if something happens, we'll take care of you. Everything will be okay. Well, that's not the case. That's not very reassuring. It's just important to have a space where first responders can get together and talk openly, confidential, you know, in confidence.
Captain Adam Meyers:And that's what FireWatch brings. And that's why FireWatch is so important.
Andy Meddaugh:So what message would you have for someone who's struggling or is supporting someone who's struggling?
Captain Adam Meyers:I'd say it's okay to talk about your mental health. You're not alone. Don't suffer in silence. Please get help. There's so many resources out there.
Captain Adam Meyers:You can use your cell phone in the privacy of your own home. Even if you don't understand what you're going through, reach out to somebody and say, Hey, I feel off, something's wrong. I don't get what I'm going through, but I know something's not right. I need help. There's so many people out there that are willing to help you.
Captain Adam Meyers:There are loved ones. And even if you can't reach out to your loved ones, your family, your friends, there are other people, clinicians that will help you and not just because they're getting paid, because they genuinely care and they may have gone through what you went through and they want to help you and they want to see you get the right kind of help. If you know somebody who's struggling, please reach out to them. Even a simple text message, what that takes ten seconds to reach out, for example, and say, Hey, Adam, I love you. I care about you.
Captain Adam Meyers:If you need anything, let me know. Many people did that to me. And I would look at my cell phone and there were probably most of the time I wouldn't respond, but I still knew that there was somebody there. So please don't ignore that. We know our family and friends better than other people.
Captain Adam Meyers:If you think something's wrong, please reach out. Reach out either in person, a text message, an email, something, and let them know, I care about you, I love you, I'm here for you if you need anything. It really means a lot to that person when they're going through something.
Andy Meddaugh:Well said. And Jen, if someone wants to learn more about Firewatch, what can they do? Where can they go?
Jen Parra-Nelson:If you're interested in the Firewatch program, we do have a direct line. It's 304024, and this goes directly to Ben, who is the front door just for the Firewatch Program, and Ben is able to do a screening, accept and schedule somebody all in the same phone call. So we're really trying to make it easy for first responders, veterans, active military to get in the door quickly, because we know that it's so important to get that process started when someone is feeling ready or feeling the call to come and get some support. But we also have our online resources that you could go to our website. We have our limbic system online, and then there's a general admission line, all of which are able to get you to the same place.
Andy Meddaugh:So somebody calls, they're admitted to the Firewatch Program, what can somebody expect when they walk through the doors?
Jen Parra-Nelson:You know, I think the one great thing about both the Firewatch program and Rogers as a whole is that we start where the person is at. Like, nobody is expecting anyone to come through the door with all the right words for how they feel, all the ability to explain themselves. You know, we understand that it takes time and space and safety and education to really kind of get that language and recognize where you're at. So, you know, nobody's expecting you to come into the Firewatch program and be able to just spill your guts. Like, that is not what we expect.
Jen Parra-Nelson:We would just love to have someone come, and if you just sit and listen for the first week, that's 100% fine because you're getting the education, you're getting some skills, and you're also getting that community, which again promotes so much healing.
Andy Meddaugh:Jen Parnellson, Captain Adam Myers, thank you both so much for joining me today.
Captain Adam Meyers:Thank you.
Jen Parra-Nelson:Thank you so much.
Andy Meddaugh:Well, listeners, as we heard today, the wait first responders carry doesn't end when the call is over. It follows them home into their families and into the quiet moments most of us never see. Programs like Rogers Firewatch exist because that reality can't be ignored and because no one who dedicates their life to protecting others should have to struggle in silence. If you or someone you know is a first responder who could benefit from support, resources like Firewatch are here to help, and reaching out can be the first step toward healing. And for everyone else, thanks for listening to another episode of Rise Above, a podcast from Rogers Behavioral Health.
Andy Meddaugh:Be sure to like and subscribe to be notified of new episodes, and as always, if you or someone you care about is struggling with a mental health or substance use disorder, visit rogersbh.org for a free mental health screening. Until next time, thanks for listening.